BRILLIANT, JUST BRILLIANT. NORMAN FINKELSTEIN IS SUCH AN ELOQUENT LECTURER! HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT AND HE INSISTS THAT HIS AUDIENCE LISTEN AND THINK CRITICALLY OF WHAT'S BEING SAID. IT'S A TRAGEDY THAT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO TEACH. WHOEVER MIGHT DISAGREE, PROVE ME WRONG!
I really, really enjoyed seeing the lecturer and the audience having a DAMN good argument. Very healthy and encouraging - an embodiment of the teaching.
Wow. What a fantastic, thought-provoking and challenging lecture. This was a really engaging presentation of Mill and helped me so much to digest some of his ideas. Listening to Mr Finkelstein was a real treat and I'm so pleased I came across this before I have my exam on Mill. The only thing that ruined this for me was the room full of people before him completely missing the point !!!!!!!! Jesus Christ. For him to have prepared a lecture like this to make people think and see things from a different perspective, to have them all yelling at him as though he WERE INDEED MILL HIMSELF, and refusing to see a different point of view in a lecture all about seeing a different point of view......it must have been excruciating for him !! Bloody hell. Anyway, what a fantastic speaker.
Thank you CPGB, Excellent teacher. He stays in control of his class, because he has command of his material. Knows how to teach, how to get through. Thank you for sharing his wisdom with us. These discussions really can take place across ideological differences. That is great!
Amazing! I would have given anything to have had a teacher like this! 10 years of higher education and no one came close to this sort of brilliance. Wow! As far as his question to students - I would have been fine with listening to one whacky lecture by the crazy lecturers in each course he describes. But if the bargain is that that same professor would teach all the other classes for the course, I would have dropped out and had my tuition refunded. That's a matter of a loss of trust.
I think that the audience was fine, honestly. They got a little riled up, but that is an honestly understandable response as these thoughts on liberty aren't something you hear often, and the details actually even caught me off-guard.
This just goes to show that it's not just the right that have the crazies. Imagine being Finkelstein and thinking "this class will be easy to teach" and then getting these crazies going nuts with the idea of analyzing a hypothetical scenario that they find somehow insulting.
@@NosyFella It’s impossible for me to say with any certainty, and I don’t want to be accused of being a Jordan Peterson fanboy, but I can only imagine it’s a post-modernist denial of reality for the sake of convenience. When you reject the truth, you can believe whatever you want. Which is a principle a lot of these ultra-leftists prefer to operate under, since they can’t be held accountable for being wrong, among other things.
@@NosyFella Could also just be relativism. I don’t think communism is mutually exclusive with either. I see a lot of communists in the internet openly embrace genocide on one side of the political spectrum and reject it on the other. Communists can be stupid hypocrites, too.
About the abolition of slavery, two remarks : 1) it is not a question of truth or false, unless you consider that right and wrong are absolute categories engraved in a big book somewhere in the universe. 2) it has most probably to do with the mastering of fossil fuels.(steam machine and four-stroke engine). The exhaustion of these energy sources might well trigger the reappearance of slavery.
Ladislas Durand It is a question of true or false, as long as you value human beings. Which is the same justification for why it was right to give women rights as well. If you impart value to human life, it is inevitable that you get rid of slavery and give everyone the same rights. That’s the truth he was talking about.
Not really, because slavery still exists within industrial society (the thirteenth amendment didn't abolish it, just foisted it onto prisoners, leading to a burgeoning prison population). Not only that, but "Time on the Cross" posited it was a very efficient mode of production for the South and its abolition actually lead to a decrement in the standards of living for former slaves. Eternal vigilance for recrudescence.
Loved how people would want to prevent those professors from speaking, I guess communists these days are just hardcore liberals, and not real left wingers. "Always doubt" - Karl Marx.
Meeg_2005, you're quite wrong, actually. The Communist Party of Great Britain/Weekly Worker has been fighting for the right to free speech for decades. The problem that many in the room had was the fact that Norman didn't stick to the agreed format - ie, he didn't allow us to question him. Many were angry that he was arguing to "listen to the other person" - without actually listening to any of us ! Quite ironic. But quite a good meeting (though I think he's utterly wrong on quite a few things - there is no such thing as 'truth', it's how and by whom things interpreted, it's a social construct, not an abstract thing).
No such thing as truth? Your assumption says that the last man on earth cant discover systematic relations between things in a lawful fashion, if there is no "truth" to it - if everything is a social construct. Arent it the case that there are matter in this universe, that maps systematically onto sensors, with or without human beings to witness or communicate it to eachother, wouldnt that fact constitute a truth?
"Norman didn't stick to the agreed format - ie, he didn't allow us to question him." What are you talking about? Finkelstein did have several discussions with the audience didn't he!
To say that "there is no such thing as truth" is utterly stupid. We have the word 'truth', which we use without any problem in many contexts. What else do you need? If I say "'red' is a color", am I not saying something that's true? And why is it true? By virtue of the meaning of those words.
OK the color Red, Great analogy. To you it is red. To a dog or a horse it is not red. To the color blind it is not red. It is your truth and those who agree with your truth but not empirically true. I think your missing his point.
I live in a communist country. Let me know how this ends because the kommissar says he’ll shoot me in head if I don’t get back to work assembling VCRs.
Does he think he sounds more compelling by shouting at the audience and not letting them to speak a full sentence? Argumentation by intimidation! Very disturbing indeed.
Finkelstein was never accepted by the modern left, as far as I know. Neither sides want him, because he’s opposed to Israel’s actions over the past 80 years. Conservatives and religious wackos are super invested in Israel, and liberals buy the propaganda that call him an anti Semite put out by Israel and its supporters. So for people who can’t think for themselves, people like Finkelstein are the enemy.
The lecturer seems to adopt a posture of hectoring the students/audience. When he gets opposing views, he seems to present this as 'proof' that his students are a bit dim, and he has the golden truth. However, he seems to be inviting 'unthinking opposition' by not making it clear what is his personal opinion and what is Mill's view. So, the whole presentation becomes almost of his shouting at the audience, and his feeling seems to be 'yes ! I am the lone voice in the wilderness speaking the truth !' Such opposition, however, is due to the fault of his own style of presentation, and not the content of what he is saying.
Except that Norman arose from the struggling working class in NY and Hitchens from the British upper crust. So except for "being scholars", maybe being "white men", there is little else to connect them.
![Rick Roderick on John Stuart Mill on Liberty [full length]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RXZhMbr4qmQ/mqdefault.jpg)
BRILLIANT, JUST BRILLIANT. NORMAN FINKELSTEIN IS SUCH AN ELOQUENT LECTURER! HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT AND HE INSISTS THAT HIS AUDIENCE LISTEN AND THINK CRITICALLY OF WHAT'S BEING SAID. IT'S A TRAGEDY THAT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO TEACH. WHOEVER MIGHT DISAGREE, PROVE ME WRONG!
I really, really enjoyed seeing the lecturer and the audience having a DAMN good argument.
Very healthy and encouraging - an embodiment of the teaching.
Wow. What a fantastic, thought-provoking and challenging lecture. This was a really engaging presentation of Mill and helped me so much to digest some of his ideas. Listening to Mr Finkelstein was a real treat and I'm so pleased I came across this before I have my exam on Mill. The only thing that ruined this for me was the room full of people before him completely missing the point !!!!!!!! Jesus Christ. For him to have prepared a lecture like this to make people think and see things from a different perspective, to have them all yelling at him as though he WERE INDEED MILL HIMSELF, and refusing to see a different point of view in a lecture all about seeing a different point of view......it must have been excruciating for him !! Bloody hell. Anyway, what a fantastic speaker.
Kudos to CPGB-ML for uploading this amazing lecture. And great that they engage in active debate and discussion of alternate viewpoints.
Not to disappoint you, but thanks has to go to the Weekly Worker group, who secured the name 'CPGB' when that organisation dissolved in Nov 1991.
this is awesome. I hope Prof. Finkelstein does many more lectures like this, filled with relevance and insight.
Thank goodness the comments are turned on for at least this one Finkelstein video. thank you❤
Thank you CPGB, Excellent teacher. He stays in control of his class, because he has command of his material. Knows how to teach, how to get through. Thank you for sharing his wisdom with us. These discussions really can take place across ideological differences. That is great!
Amazing! I would have given anything to have had a teacher like this! 10 years of higher education and no one came close to this sort of brilliance. Wow! As far as his question to students - I would have been fine with listening to one whacky lecture by the crazy lecturers in each course he describes. But if the bargain is that that same professor would teach all the other classes for the course, I would have dropped out and had my tuition refunded. That's a matter of a loss of trust.
A model teacher for the ages.
The more I'm listening to Norman, the more sorry I am that I wasn't able to come to this event. :-(
Can anyone give me the name of the professor that taught the "only memorable class", mentioned by Norman around 1:04:49
"
Maurice Lachniet"? I couldn't find a trace of him
I think that the audience was fine, honestly. They got a little riled up, but that is an honestly understandable response as these thoughts on liberty aren't something you hear often, and the details actually even caught me off-guard.
True. I'm 35. Not sure how I would have responded at 22 to these ugly truths
I recommend, 'The Pragmatic Turn' - a lecture by Philosopher, Richard J. Bernstein.
This is excellent
Yet, the notion that "human rights" are actually automatic, coterminous with physical, material, "human-ness", is still NOT "taken-for-granted".
Prof. Finkelstein is teaching a class of deaf people.
An intelligent rational individual does not merely listen to contrary views but clarifies their own view and runs the risk of changing their stance.
Dr. Finkelstein as great as ever.
Ty
1:25:07
old man yells at communists. Love Norm sooo much.
You sssssson of a bitch!!
This just goes to show that it's not just the right that have the crazies. Imagine being Finkelstein and thinking "this class will be easy to teach" and then getting these crazies going nuts with the idea of analyzing a hypothetical scenario that they find somehow insulting.
1:02:26 "there is no truth" Finkelstein arguing with crazy people.
I’ve listened to this whole video at least 3 times and missed that. Amazing.
@@TheIncognitusMe what does that person mean by "there is no truth"?
@@NosyFella It’s impossible for me to say with any certainty, and I don’t want to be accused of being a Jordan Peterson fanboy, but I can only imagine it’s a post-modernist denial of reality for the sake of convenience. When you reject the truth, you can believe whatever you want. Which is a principle a lot of these ultra-leftists prefer to operate under, since they can’t be held accountable for being wrong, among other things.
@@TheIncognitusMe I thought this audience were supposed to be communists/marxists.
@@NosyFella Could also just be relativism. I don’t think communism is mutually exclusive with either. I see a lot of communists in the internet openly embrace genocide on one side of the political spectrum and reject it on the other. Communists can be stupid hypocrites, too.
Is Finkelstein a vegetarian?
Normans like Allen Iverson "we talkin' about one class"
the hypothetical anthropology professor is probably right about some women liking to be raped. better let him have his class
UA-cam comments no longer are what they never were.
Had I been in that classroom, I would have screamed, "No professor...I don't think I'm God. I KNOW I'm God!"
That is an awesome looking shirt.
1:00:00
About the abolition of slavery, two remarks :
1) it is not a question of truth or false, unless you consider that right and wrong are absolute categories engraved in a big book somewhere in the universe.
2) it has most probably to do with the mastering of fossil fuels.(steam machine and four-stroke engine). The exhaustion of these energy sources might well trigger the reappearance of slavery.
These students would never have allowed William Wilberforce to speak at their college.
Ladislas Durand It is a question of true or false, as long as you value human beings. Which is the same justification for why it was right to give women rights as well. If you impart value to human life, it is inevitable that you get rid of slavery and give everyone the same rights. That’s the truth he was talking about.
Not really, because slavery still exists within industrial society (the thirteenth amendment didn't abolish it, just foisted it onto prisoners, leading to a burgeoning prison population). Not only that, but "Time on the Cross" posited it was a very efficient mode of production for the South and its abolition actually lead to a decrement in the standards of living for former slaves. Eternal vigilance for recrudescence.
Norman is a voice of reason on the left
There is a lot of truth in what he says, but I do not know it.
Loved how people would want to prevent those professors from speaking, I guess communists these days are just hardcore liberals, and not real left wingers.
"Always doubt" - Karl Marx.
Communists would have condemned those 3 professors to death.
@@ednorton47 Troll.
Finklestein was a Maoist and is a self-proclaimed “classical communist.”
Su casa es mi casa is true, considering the bank owns the principal to your mortgage.
Doesn't matter what Professor Norman Finkelstein is talking about, stop and listen.
communist party best option for the workers n farmers
Meeg_2005, you're quite wrong, actually. The Communist Party of Great Britain/Weekly Worker has been fighting for the right to free speech for decades. The problem that many in the room had was the fact that Norman didn't stick to the agreed format - ie, he didn't allow us to question him. Many were angry that he was arguing to "listen to the other person" - without actually listening to any of us ! Quite ironic. But quite a good meeting (though I think he's utterly wrong on quite a few things - there is no such thing as 'truth', it's how and by whom things interpreted, it's a social construct, not an abstract thing).
you might want to avoid making the assertion that there is no truth as if that were some kind of 'true' fact that people ought to realize
No such thing as truth? Your assumption says that the last man on earth cant discover systematic relations between things in a lawful fashion, if there is no "truth" to it - if everything is a social construct.
Arent it the case that there are matter in this universe, that maps systematically onto sensors, with or without human beings to witness or communicate it to eachother, wouldnt that fact constitute a truth?
"Norman didn't stick to the agreed format - ie, he didn't allow us to question him."
What are you talking about? Finkelstein did have several discussions with the audience didn't he!
To say that "there is no such thing as truth" is utterly stupid. We have the word 'truth', which we use without any problem in many contexts. What else do you need? If I say "'red' is a color", am I not saying something that's true? And why is it true? By virtue of the meaning of those words.
OK the color Red, Great analogy. To you it is red. To a dog or a horse it is not red. To the color blind it is not red. It is your truth and those who agree with your truth but not empirically true. I think your missing his point.
I live in a communist country. Let me know how this ends because the kommissar says he’ll shoot me in head if I don’t get back to work assembling VCRs.
sjws larping as communists. so sweet
You bring such impressive erudition to this debate.
Does he think he sounds more compelling by shouting at the audience and not letting them to speak a full sentence? Argumentation by intimidation! Very disturbing indeed.
Yes, I don't approve.
He’s insanely compelling. lol
Wow, the Left is going to dump Finkelstein like an anvil.
Finkelstein was never accepted by the modern left, as far as I know. Neither sides want him, because he’s opposed to Israel’s actions over the past 80 years. Conservatives and religious wackos are super invested in Israel, and liberals buy the propaganda that call him an anti Semite put out by Israel and its supporters. So for people who can’t think for themselves, people like Finkelstein are the enemy.
👎👎👎
The lecturer seems to adopt a posture of hectoring the students/audience. When he gets opposing views, he seems to present this as 'proof' that his students are a bit dim, and he has the golden truth. However, he seems to be inviting 'unthinking opposition' by not making it clear what is his personal opinion and what is Mill's view. So, the whole presentation becomes almost of his shouting at the audience, and his feeling seems to be 'yes ! I am the lone voice in the wilderness speaking the truth !' Such opposition, however, is due to the fault of his own style of presentation, and not the content of what he is saying.
braindead take
Typical university educated "proletariats'. reminds me of Christopher hitchens before his sea change.
Before hitch became a neoconservative warmongering bankrupting america with useless wars in iraq?
Except that Norman arose from the struggling working class in NY and Hitchens from the British upper crust. So except for "being scholars", maybe being "white men", there is little else to connect them.
Bulsit 👎