Do Mormon Women have More Power & Authority than Other Women?
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- In a recent broadcast, one of the top female leaders of the Mormon church made the following statement, “There is no other religious organization in the world that I know of, that has so broadly given power and authority to women.” (J. Anette Dennis, 1st Counselor in the LDS Church Relief Society General Presidency).
Please join Amy McPhie Allebest (Breaking Down Patriarchy), Chelsea Homer (Lost & Found Club) and musical artist Mindy Gledhill as they discuss their reactions to this statement, and their experiences as women in the LDS/Mormon church.
Episode Show Notes: www.mormonstor...
Breaking Down Patriarchy: / @breakingdownpatriarchy
Lost & Found Club:
www.lostandfou...
Mindy Gledhill:
mindy-gledhill...
Chapters
00:01:30 Introductions
00:06:00 Clip of Sister Dennis’ quote
00:06:43 Mindy’s reaction
00:10:30 Hurtful waves of statements and the feedback
00:14:04 Amy comparing women’s priesthood to Chucky cheese tokens
00:16:25 Gaslighting
00:19:35 The sexism in the Mormon temple
00:22:50 Changes in the temple
00:25:25 Giving the benefit of the doubt to the Brethren
00:27:10 Benevolent sexism
00:29:55 The church has both misogyny and benevolent sexism
00:32:24 Being a helpmeet to the husband
00:37:00 The silence of the patriarchy through the cries of their people
00:41:15 We will be passing this on to the leaders who track these issues
00:42:16 Breadcrumbs given to women
00:44:45 Trying to enact change in the church
00:48:31 Mindy wearing pants to church
00:50:05 Would giving women the priesthood change anything?
00:54:20 Severing women from their sexuality
00:58:15 Speaking up and challenging the patriarchy
01:06:35 Why are they participating in this conversation if they’ve stepped away?
01:14:55 What do you want?
01:20:15 Closing comments
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"When you've been starving, a breadcrumb can look like a feast. But when you're feasting on breadcrumbs, you're still starving." -Mindy Gledhill
Amen! Yes this.
Loved this quote!!!
Brilliant statement.
Breadcrumbing is actually a technique used by abusers to keep people in their inventory.
Didn’t know I needed this. Amen sisters!!!
Dear sisters, thank you all so very much for letting your voices be heard!! I'm 64, and I've put my dreams on the back burner my whole life because I was taught that women are wives and mothers! I'm no longer going to do that, I'm going to put the wheels in motion to live my dreams! I'm going to start my own channel and teach the crafts I love to do to others! If you can finish a degree at 40, I can create my dream at 64!! 😊 I've loved being a mother and a grandmother, I've loved serving my husband and my children, but Heavenly Father blessed me with talents and a brain to share them. You three women are so inspiring ❤️ I left the church 4 years ago, and I still struggle to uncondition my thoughts, ,feelings and actions! We're not alone, we have eachother, and we are lovable and good. Thank you all again, you are giants!!! You have so much support, YOU ARE LOVED ❤❤❤
This is one of the best Mormon Stories ever. Please do more of these. This helps me know better how my wife and daughters feel and see themselves. Thank you for sharing your stories!
❤
@@coll4455❤👏wisdom being spoken here by women in touch with authenticity.
It is nice to know that a husband might care!
I began to wake up from the JW's (Jehovah's Witness) by reading about Mormons and watching videos entitled.."I was a Mormon".
Then John Dehlin's excommunication was broadcast on television. I started following him and I noticed a ton of similarities between the JW's and the Mormons. This was an eye-opener for me!!
After that I got the courage to go to UA-cam and look up.. "Why do people leave the Jehovah's Witnesses faith"...that's when I really started waking up!
I became obsessed listening to all ExJW stories on UA-cam and the FEAR of the "so called" apostates that we are taught to detest started to become a different reality, they are just people telling their experiences when they were an active JW and why they left.
So all the stigma started to dwindle.
Then I branched out and started looking into Seventh Day Adventist, Scientology, Christadelphians, The Brethren, Christian Science.
I started noticing the parallels between all the religions, and it runs deep...no questioning, no doubting and everything comes from the top down.
The rank-and-file are just the followers with no personal self, no individuality.
After you wake up and start seeing these things it can take a toll on you, especially if this is the only thing you have known all of your life.
Therapy is definitely a must when waking up!
I can now honestly say that life is better on the outside! 💯
I had been taught not to look at “anti Mormon” media, but there was nothing against ex jehovas witness content! It really helps to see a similar situation.
Thanks for sharing this! It was Leah Remenies Scientology movie on Netflix where I saw similarities to the Mormon church. She had an episode where they talked about JW and Mormons and I couldn’t unsee it….crazy!!!
We are definitely Cult Cousins! 😇🌻💜
Hi. I left the LDS faith of 15 years of my adult life. Only to become J.W. What turned a new corner for me was my non believing mother! I was driving my car. I thought "By Damn!" My own Mom doesn't deserve to burn as rubble! She gave birth to me as a 16 year old teenager!! She was a good Mom! It would be a very Crazy God to reject my Mom! I'm happier now. Thanks Mom!
When I was growing up my parents owned a horse ranch. When I was about 12 years old, I rode my Dad's rope horse into the mountains. It got really cold. At this point I'd never heard of the LDS Church or their Priesthood. But I'd read the Bible. My horse started sweating and shaking. I lead her to the barn. She laid down and her eyes rolled upwards. Her legs got straight and stiff. I went to the house. Breathlessly I explained to my Dad and Mom that I thought she was dying! They didn't take me seriously. I grabbed some blankets and ran back to the barn. She still looked very bad. I had read about the Savior and the Disiples "laying on hands and praying!" I knelt down beside her and I tearfully begged God to save her life! I laid hands on her and wept and prayed! I remember saying, "She's just not a horse she is my friend!" And I asked for forgiveness. I rode her uphill on a cold fall day. She got overheated and sweat came then she got cold. She was At least in shock. I went back to the house to talk to my parents. Again they reassured me. But I went back to the barn thinking I'd find her dead. It was a miracle! She was up and eating hay in her stall!!!! She looked totally Okay! Years later I joined the Church. After 15 years I left it. But I always remembered my own little miracle. Through the years I've had many miracles. I never gave up laying on hands and begging God for healing my children in sickness. I never waited for my husband to use his "authority!" I have all the confidence in the World I can ask for help myself. If you're drowning in a swift river are you going to wait for a priesthood holder to manifest? Or are you going to say out loud, "Oh God!" ???
This is my first presidency! I see the artistry, the scholarship, the empathy, and LOVE all three of you embody. What a gift to be part of this brave, big-hearted community led by these POWERFUL women.❤
This is how I feel! I’ve had so many more “religious” experiences around the Mormon church since leaving the than I ever did as a member!
I love seeing you co-hosting this conversation, Amy! Eloquent and insightful. ❤
As a current member and a woman of color in the church I am soooooo happy to see these conversations happening in larger scales. Was also in an abusive marriage and the patriarchy in the definitely contributed for me to stay longer than I would’ve. Currently trying to decide if I should continue taking my two teen daughters to an institution that does not allow the bare minimum rights to women (i.esitting in the same spaces and having decision making power as men).
You do what you need to do, but for what it's worth, I'm nearly 30, left at 21, and I am still recovering from the Mormon church. My time as a young woman was especially horrible for my mental health. It also put me in really dangerous situations because of the culture and because wolves are among the saints.
I left about 10 years ago. I am still deconstructing from all the damaging messages. I too am a woman of color. I left because I hated hearing all of the racism that no one did anything about at church it made no sense to me. I don't regret leaving
I'm a mom of 2 girls too. I always say that I left the church for me (my sanity, my benefit, my own reasons, etc), but I RAN from the church for my daughters' sakes. Easier since they were very little. For teens I would probably provide info on all sides and let them believe what they want and know it's OK to not believe or to change your mind whenever you want.
They will find out it’s a steaming pile of horseshit and take longer to recover the longer they are brainwashed. If they attend a Mormon college, they will get crushed by the racism. Mormon guys are shallow and won’t date them.
Hard pass! Get your daughters out of there as soon as possible! Also, "White and delightsome."
When we were having babies, there were 10 women who used the nursing room in our ward. After some asking a third chair was added and a privacy curtain (as the door opened directly to the women nursing). A woman salvaged some art, another bought a clock. I offered on several occasions (to my wife) to buy a rocking chair a garage sale (since the church was failing to will the room) because the room was so under equipped. Even with my leadership calling and a peer as the bishop, there was little I could do. This bishop's wife was one of those nursing at the time and it was still hard to get anything done. We had to fight against established beliefs, the patriarchy, and the older generation (including the RS president) who would push back on positive change.
On the "where are the men on the comments?" I did comment on the post but often I refrain. Often I hear, give women space to voice their concerns on issues that impact them. I often struggle to be supportive while balancing allowing women the space to give voice to their concerns. My comments do miss (especially as I am learning all this) and I try to be receptive to that, but I'm trying to say that I don't always feel welcomed in these conversations.
As a man, it is so hard to come out of this religion and see the ways that I have hurt your wife (or others in my life) because of the teachings that were indoctrinated. (I recognize that women also have harm done to them in ways that they are taught to submit). There are things where my wife is rightfully angry about choices made, but I was operating on limited information (from her indoctrinated submission to follow her husband) and not fully aware of her wants. This is hard to come out from.
Well, thanks for commenting here. I loved that moment when they said they should have a panel with men. Hopefully, Mormon Stories will take up the challenge and have some discussions with men and women about how this affects us all.
Thanks for sharing. I understand why you'd want to let women speak first but your voice is important for context and nuance as well.
Patriarchy hurts EVERYONE! Your experience is just as valid, but thank you for respecting that women sometimes enjoy and need our own spaces ❤
I can only imagine the pain you would have experienced, but I'm so grateful for your voice to be heard.
As a guy, I"m sharing all these videos on this event on my fb and hope it will make a difference with my friends and family who are tbm's.
Mormon Stories is Breaking Ground on Deeper Issues so many have Needed and Wanted to Discuss for Decades !!! TY John Dehlin , Margi and Team !!!
I’m glad to realize that this topic no longer really commands my time or attention. Because it doesn’t need to. Because the church has no power over my life any longer. That is a blessing and I bestowed it upon myself. 😊 Cheers, ladies!
Former catholic, nevermo here to bring Frederick Douglass: “Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” I’m sorry you all are going through this. It’s painful and difficult. ❤️💪🏼
Another ex-Catholic here, I used to be part of a Latin Mass fundamentalist parish which in practice was closer to Mormonism than most American Catholics when it comes to gender as women couldn’t participate at all in the altar and cover their heads like the pre-Vatican II days it tries to emulate.
Although unlike Mormons with Heavenly Mother Catholics are encouraged to pray to the Virgin Mary (and I had male friends who were more sexist than I was who were devoted to her) there’s still tons of patriarchy anyways but I think this is one area where the Mormons have it worse after listening to this talk, still plenty of Purity Culture in my community and it was one of the things that messed me up the most as a young man for a long time.
If we could refer to it as the Divine Feminine then in Catholicism it’s subordinate to the male God and hierarchy while my impression is that in Mormonism it’s there but you’re not supposed to pay attention to it and in most other Abrahamic denominations and religions (mainly Evangelicals and Islam) it ain’t there at all.
Real Truth Matters ! God Given BIRTH RIGHT FREEDOMS MATTER !!! ALWAYS !
58:58 When amy said her hands were shaking because she were so scared to challenge her professor and his authority it reminded me of an experience I had in my english class. My classmates were giving a presentation over Ophelia and how she has been viewed over the centuries as our view of women has evolved. At the end of it, I commented that many women go crazy because they are kept small, always in the shadow of men. I opened my scriptures on my phone and I read in genesis 2:24 and it says man and women should be one in marriage. I shared how in my religious upbringing, I always thought that was good. But now I’m realizing that so often in order to become “one” with their husband, women have to limit who they are to give more space to the man. After I shared that my hands were shaking so hard, my heartbeat was really fast. I has to take deep breaths to calm myself down. I was almost having a panic attack because it has been so ingrained in my body to respect the patriarchal structure and never speak out against it. When I was leaving the class Ms. Drake stopped me and told me how much she really appreciated my comment. Relief coursed through my veins as I realized that I was in a safe space, where not only could I talk about these issues, but that my voice would be valued.
What a beautiful story. I'm so glad you had a safe space to share your experience.
My 10 year old daughter wanted a pant suit because she saw a woman at church wearing one. That woman is a power house but doesn’t get to lead like she could, if she was a man. I’m thankful for her example for my daughter.
There's way more to power than a pants suit, but it's a place to start!
This was fabulous. My two favorite things: one was the acknowledgment of how patriarchy has gotten inside of us so deeply that it takes a long time and effort to deprogrammed from it. I relate to that very much. The second and even more encouraging thing that happened here is that these intelligent, articulate women showed up with their tears. I strongly believe that crying needs to be a valued aspect of our communication. I do not have a voice unless I am comfortable weeping as it is expressed. I know that is true for many of us. Thank you all. 💜
When Chelsea started crying my heart just broke. I feel her pain all the time. I don't even know her but I just want to hug her.❤❤
Some of my new heroes spoke today
When I think of misogyny in the church I think of how women are blamed for men’s sexuality and their lack of responsibility for it.
Amy when you shared your experience about being so conditioned to never challenge a man, even now, I felt that. I am crying for you. It is something I have struggled with my whole life and still do. I feel like my reservedness and shyness partially stems from this learned conditioning. I have always struggled with self-confidence but am trying to root for myself more because I know I am worth it. Every woman deserves be to respected and treated as a peer. Thank you so much for being vulnerable and sharing. ❤
You dear dear women!! I don’t know you but seeing how vulnerable you have been on this episode can I just say that you are amazing!! I wish that it had not taken me 68 years to see what you all have much much sooner! Which gives me such hope for the young women who are coming up in or out of the church! The patriarchy will do one of two things. Continue to ignore as they have so far or this next generation of women will take themselves and their families with them out of this harmful system. That’s the only options that exist in my mind. Thank you for your courage to bring these issues to light for women who are desperately attempting to try and reconcile the truth claims of the church to the actual reality of the church.. My own discovery of the church history was so shocking and traumatic and then it was anger and the betrayal of a church who I thought was true for so many years isn’t!
This was fantastic. The POWER of these women's minds is immense and it sure wasn't given to them by any church or man. Our power is inside of us! ✊🏻
Love is treating people the way want to be treated, not the way you believe they should want to be treated. Respect is treating everyone equally. Separate but equal is never equal.
“The patriarchal grip” takes on a new meaning.
Such a powerful conversation among thoughtful and strong women. It was amazing. I grew up as a Baptist preacher’s kid where women were just as limited. I’m a 25 year member of the UCC which was the first denomination to ordain women. I’m the chair of the Deacon board and our senior minister is a 38 yr old woman with her doctorate.. Our music coordinator and our organist are queer. One of our children’s ministry staff is trans. I’m a 69 yr old cis gender straight white woman. Definitely not in the majority on our staff. 😉😉
One of the most honest conversations about the Mormon Church I’ve ever heard. Thank you! Bring these ladies back!
The patriarchy is bad for men too. Not all men want that priesthood responsibility. Churches should encourage all people regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation, who feel they have a personal calling to be ordained. Instead of forcing it on one group and banning it for another bases on any arbitrary definition like gender.
well said!
Amen!
Agreed!! It hurts everyone involved
So true!
Thank you for the very wise and thoughtful conversation.
I’m almost 2 years out and I’m still trying to work through some of the males superiority that nestled into my bones, unintentionally. It wasn’t until I listened to my wife, I mean really listened, after years of her trying to tell me, that I finally understood the hurt that I was causing she and my daughter with some of my subtle behavior.
I hope men will finally start to listen so we can all do better.
57:20 it’s so important to also note that the men don’t just get upset about having missed out on the “stay at home life” with young children. They grow to resent their wives for that. My dad is very jealous of the connections my mother has with us kids. He sees it as her fault that he doesn’t have those same connections. They miss the boat so hard
Yes, I constantly felt pressured about how much time I spend at work. While my wife feels burnt out from working with the kids after school (etc), I wish I just had a little more time. It goes by so fast.
For your dad, I hope he is able to find therapy and separate that fault from his wife. It sounds like it is a product of the system. I reach out with a "sorry" that his wants were not met.
I raised three daughters in the church. Only a couple years ago did I see the horrible imbalance. I count myself lucky to be a decent feminist in training now. I can only imagine the damage I may have done to them by simply going along to get along. I'm sorry ladies you have been getting screwed for so, so long in the church and the rest of the world for that matter. I am an advocate in every way I can now.
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
this is some heavy stuff I have never quite considered. Thanks for sharing
I relate so much to all of this. I left the church in 1997 and am still unpacking the effects of patriarchy. I know that all of this is because patriarchy is baked into the entire culture. It’s in the world and not just the church, but the church has its own deeply rooted problems. I feel like the one thing we are born with was never something that belonged to me. My body was always the possession of a man. I’m still reclaiming it. I love you women for your courage, vulnerability and voices. Thank you sincerely! ❤
Everybody has problems in a patriarchal society which is what we live in. Google Russell Means to find out the why n how to deal with it. Many blessings.
As a never mormon, but a cradle catholic, I resonate with so many of these topics. Most especially not trusting my own thoughts and opinions and needing validation from others instead of turning within. I was never taught to do that and listening to these 3 women speak so eloquently and describe my exact feelings gives me more examples of how high demand religions and organizations all have the same undercurrent.
Thank you for speaking on this.
Thank you for this conversation
The thing I was shocked about was that the MOM was not up at the baby dedication. I am used to both he parents being up there with the baby. They are a union to raise that child.
I tried staying in for so many years to try to make the changes within by standing up to bishops for unfair treatment of the young women activities, for not doing the purity culture talks to the young women, i took on a stake president about talking about sexual abuse to adults and not shaming girls that were victims. I wanted to be a leader that left them knowing they were enough. I looked at it like a buffet-take what i needed-but realized I was starving to death. Thank you beautiful women for all of this. Its so needed to just even validate the pain. To know we arent alone. To have courage to use our voices and stand up and speak out.❤
My daughters as they grow up have each chosen to step away from the church. One major reason is them not wanting to be a second class citizen. I am so proud of them.
“Well I thought this must be a me problem.” -Mindy Gledhill
💯 this is how I felt for years.
Non-Mormon here… this is so powerful and I know it makes such a difference in your community. I’m an avid Mormon Stories watcher and love seeing women talking about women’s issues within the church. Thank you for putting yourselves out there and taking your power back. ❤
This was such an important and amazing conversation! Thank you for your honesty and critique. It brings verbiage to experiences so many of us have had.
My gosh, you ladies have me crying twice in the first 20 minutes of this! You are so eloquent and express yourselves so beautifully. Thank you.
I attended a United methodist church after my transition. An African American woman once brought me the communion to my seat and I burst into tears. I'm sure they thought I was mental! But it was soooo powerful for me.
I was a convert at 19. Admittedly, sadly, didn't get the comments people in and out of the Church made about women being marginalized in the Church. "But they are so loved," I used to tell myself. Then my deconstruction started and I started to change my view. The final big "ah ha" was when activities were sent out from our ward for boys and girls - I've seen these for decades - but it never really clicked - but there was something about this one that made me ask "does my daughter have to do knitting? She would way rather do archery." The answer was she has to do the girls activity. Something about that moment made me realize how social constructs are so rigid and the Church wanted my daughter raised a certain way. I finally fully saw what people had been saying. Really appreciate this episode.
As a man who has been in the church and served in senior roles in the church, my heart is with you, I see your hurt. I have seen the oppression of the patriarchy in action. Until the church can truly and authentically (not tokenistically) embrace all the value that women bring, create equal space for their voice to be heard and contributions to be made and show true love through changing culture and practices that drive oppression, until we do this I dont know how we can ever expect see to see and feel a full and loving God in this church. A God that sees and values and celebrates us all.
Keep sharing your voice and I hope all men and women listen to their own inner voice that tells them this isnt right and join you.
This was a great, much needed conversation! ❤❤❤
Love these women panels. One comment, though, I personally find it annoying to hear all of the phone alerts going off. I would appreciate it if those can be muted in the future.
I love the fact that women are waking up in the LDS Church, particularly white women. Maybe, now you all will understand how black members have been gaslit during and after the priesthood and temple restrictions. Maybe, now you all will understand the benevolent racism that black members have had to deal with to the present day. I hope that as white women continue to wake up, they will become better allies for the pain and suffering of black members in the church.
And Native Americans…
I love this discussion so much. Whomever was texting through the whole thing was super distracting, however. Please silence your phone next time, it distracts from the message being put out.
A lot of the participants in Mormon Stories do not silence their phones or their laptop notifications. I don't think they realize that every time there is a ping, listeners STOP listening and look at their own phones/laptop, thinking it was their notification.
Agreed!
Yes! It was so distracting and so rude to the people speaking.
Thank you for being brave to come on and give voice for all of us. Thank you for being willing to stay in this conversation.
On my mission, a ward mission leader referred to the elders and sisters as “the missionaries and the sisters”. I was pretty blind to patriarchy back then, but even then I was insulted.
Agree with Mindy in her sandwich analogy when she said no matter what toppings you might finally get for your sandwich, it’s still a sh** sandwich. Best quote ever. 👏🏻👏🏻
THANK YOU for expressing your anger of "it's too late for me." I've been feeling this of late as I've entered my 40s as well. It's so validating to hear someone else express your own thoughts and emotions!
Love this - so helpful and healing
From a man who left the church and appreciates hearing this perspective - I knew there were problems, but hearing it laid out so clearly is very helpful
As a woman, I have experienced a few different religions and I have to say, that as a former LDS woman, my experience of "Godly power" was least experienced as a LDS woman. Lots of disappointments as an LDS woman and member.
What a POWERFUL conversation 👏
I loved LOVED this episode! I need more of these women in my life. You have given voice to many of my thoughts and feelings and experiences. Thanks for this!
The best part of this episode is the raw emotion and authenticity displayed in each woman's personal experience and the utter harm that has been allowed to perpetuate at the hands of the established patriarchy.
The first thing I thought of when she said “No other church, that I know of, has given women this much power and authority” was the community of Christ who literally have a woman who will likely become prophet next year. Even if someone else is chosen over her, the fact that women have the same prophetic power is light years beyond what the lds church have given to women
This video made me so emotional just as a woman. Despite being a "never-mormon", having been atheist since I was 8, having lived my entire life in Finland which is one of the most if not the most equal country in the world.
Thank you so much for making this video, my heart is with you and your cause ❤
Powerful episode. Very powerful to watch and hear the personal stories. Wow.
I didn’t realize other women were weeping in their cars after leaving the temple like I did…
All those weeping people in the temple parking lot.....
48:46 I was in college and recently married for "wear pants to church" day. At first I thought "yeah, there's definitely nothing in church doctrine or scriptures that prohibits pants. I don't see why it's a big deal though."
Then I saw the wild backlash from many members, and I realized "oh, this is why it's a big deal". That day showed me the misogyny present in the church and was a significant step for me in questioning and eventually leaving.
I wore a very nice business suit to a young women’s event at the church in the cultural hall when I was maybe 16 or 17. one of the young women’s leaders who had been encouraging me to be more active in the church knew I was going to do it because I had told her I didn’t see why the male leaders in the Ward should care because I was as modest or more covered up modest than any girl going in a dress. this woman actually showed up in slacks too. I was surprised she was cool enough and supportive of me to do that. And she looked really nice, in fact we both did. well…I bet you don’t have to guess what happened in the days after. Someone told the Bishop, the Bishop counseled this woman, she called my mother, and my mother told me That poor woman and I were not to ever do that again.
@@BirdRockinI hope any woman who is told this would wear pantsuits every week and dare one of them to say something directly to you. Those cowards had women do their dirty work.
@@BirdRockin Jesus, so officially not breaking gendered clothing expectations was officially more important to those people than a kid participating more. Weird values. Weird, sexist, controlling values 🙄
Yes. That is also the place I came to: Stop asking, begging, waiting . Start innately acting in my own inherent agency.
I was a Manti temple worker at the when the temple changes that centered around women’s issues happened. Since they had live sessions at that time, an authority of the church had a secret meeting in the temple with all the temple workers. This leader told us that all changes within the temple are solely outward changes, the meaning and symbols promoted within the endowments/ceremonies will always remain the same regardless of any changes made. This was repeated over and over throughout his 45 minute talk. I left understanding that nothing had changed, the beliefs and ideas that fostered within the temple will always be ingrained in the intentions and meaning! These changes were to appease not to actually create a change.
Mindy has helped me find the words to SO many feelings I’ve felt throughout my life. This was an amazing episode. Thank you ladies ❤
Much appreciation for this ground breaking work among Mormon women. The ramifications for increased insight among patriarchal structures, regardless of denominational identifications, is praise worthy!
I love seeing a whole panel of women, this was a nice change. I'd love to see a panel of people of color like me
The LDS quote was like a double-speak tsunami.
This has been so relatable. Thank you so much.
Do you know what’s really interesting?
Listening around an hour and five minutes for some reason it hit me. She says something about asking for her husband’s permission on everything and it made me think about the men on the other side of this. I have spent most of my 20 year marriage waiting for my husband to lead and wanting him to lead and asking him to lead and being disappointed if he didn’t lead. He didn’t want to lead the way that I thought he was supposed to and in the way that the church would’ve told him to. I put a pressure on him to be a strong member of the patriarchy! I tried to get him to become that because that’s what I thought he was supposed to do!
It really hurt him and made him feel like less than or like he wasn’t enough like he would never be enough and like he just couldn’t do what he was told he was supposed to do.
I have never felt put down or abused by a man but I’d never want to belittle or minimize anyone who has felt that way in this comment is not meant in any way to do that. I just wanted to point out that men are damaged by this too. Some men who really don’t want to be a member of the patriarchy and don’t want to fit in that box, but think that somehow it’s what they are supposed to do… I didn’t know at the time, but now that we have left the church and had many discussions about it, my husband has been hurting for a long time.
I just think it’s time that we have compassion for each individual person who has been harmed by this organization, and so many organizations like it.
Something that I have learned and recognized more of in this channel is seeing so many perspectives that I have never seen before.
Thank you ladies for sharing your perspectives! This was a great discussion.
This has also been my experience with my husband. And it almost destroyed our marriage because according to church standards, in my mind, he wasn’t doing his part to lead and I was doing it, which led to resentment. He felt so much pressure to be the spiritual giant in our home, but always felt inadequate because he didn’t serve a mission nor have the same drive for spiritual exactness I did. Now that we see the truth, we no longer feel like there is a wedge of expectation between us and we can just work on building a stronger relationship. Neither of us feels like we have to play a part in our marriage but rather, we can just be ourselves and be authentic. I don’t believe either of us felt like we could do that all the years we’ve been married. And the upside is now we are more connected and supportive of one another than we have ever been. It’s beautiful!
I grew up in a home where my mom did the same to my dad. She was told by the prophet (ie God) that her husband (my dad) needed to x,y,z…in order to be a good spiritual leader in the home. He could never measure up. But for my mom, it was a BIG deal because she grew up in a house with an alcoholic father. The church was her answer as a convert, so allll the blame went to my dad. I never understood it until I was able to step out . SOOO much of how we behave and act towards our loved ones comes from the top.
I feel personally and collectively that women have been completely let down by men. I say this knowing that men have been let down by men as well, we are so connected that one person or group can not be harmed without everyone suffering too. And deep in my soul I LOVE the masculine. It is a strong and safe energy to be in and I’m so grateful for the honorable men in this world!! But all men have the capacity for so much more than what we have been shown, specifically in the church. Men can be great leaders AND listen to women AND show respect. Listening to this I just feel the pain from having expected more from our men and instead being majorly disappointed. I want to believe we are all doing the best we can, but these issues can not be solved without speaking them and having them listened to and taken seriously.
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Soren Kierkegaard
Loving these women led episodes!
PREACH, ladies!! Beautiful, vulnerable, powerful discussion by three women I respect and admire! Thank you for this episode!
Thank you, courageous women. I feel your pain. In sharing it with us, I feel so much less alone.
Thank you for having this discussion! So may of us women have been feeling this for our entire lives. The church has inflicted so much religious trauma on women. Making women feel small is abuse. The toxic behavior style of perfection, shame and guilt needs to stop!!! I will not participate in this PSG behavior anymore. Thank you for having the confidence to voice that out loud for all of us. ❤
“Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.”
Awesome episode. Wow. ✊🏻❤
One thing I notice in many conversations about women, sexism, and misogyny in the Church-we often devolve to talking about individual men. And certainly, there are individual men who exhibit sexist and misogynistic behavior. But even more damaging, even more long-lasting and impactful, are the sexist and misogynistic policies, rules, structures, and traditions. The very big C Church itself. We can hardly expect millions of individual men and women to root out internal misogyny if the church they believe is run by a perfect god cannot.
Awesome conversation, with lots of food for thought.
Thanks for hosting these 3 incredible women, Mormon Stories. ❤️ More of this please!
Powerful, validating and beautiful! Thank you all so much for willingly wading back into the muck to present this important discussion.
Thanks for having this panel of women. Amazing episodes! These episodes are so critical for women. I love hearing their stories and análisis. It enrages me the purity culture of the church when JS was banging women of all ages left and right, lying about it, and members just turn a blind eye because he was a "prophet".
Wow, brave and moving. Good for you!
Thank you for this conversation.
“To love them in a way that sets them up to be weak and fragile, is not empowering” uhh such a great line…was just having this discussion a couple weeks ago with a childhood friend, couldn’t put it quite so eloquently
Wow!!! Thank you ladies! I didn’t realize how intensely the patriarchy has impacted me & my own power (or seeming lack there of) Keep going! Much love ❤️
Powerful panel. Excellent and important conversation. I feel heard today. Thank you. 🙏 ❤
Gosh ladies I feel with you. It is so nourishing to be in silent conversation and agreeing with you every step of the way
No, they don’t.
Beautiful conversations! Thank you!
I got asked what right I had as a woman to go into medicine and taking away the ability of a man to provide for his family because I was going to have to work part time because of my future family. I wasn’t married. I asked the older man that asked me if he would rather be taken care of by a less qualified doctor but was a man than a more qualified woman
Thank you for this episode. Very thoughtful comments from these women and I went thru similar as a female member. Sadly, most women just accept their role in the church claiming they don't want the priesthood. This issue goes far beyond the priesthood.
LDS women are Truly some of the warmest, most amazing , authentic human beings I have ever met. But in my opinion, the Church is doing Wrong and causing harm to faithful , believing , devoted members .
As long as you do exactly what the men tell you to, you can have power as a woman in the Mormon church!
Bingo !
Thank you so much for this amazing conversation. I felt upheld and loved listening. You spoke so much of my experiences and modelled empowerment as an exmormon woman. So valuable!❤
Thank you so much for opening up and sharing your experience. You are all three so brave and strong. So much needs to change in the LDS church. I don't know if it ever will. I wish there was a Lost & Found group in Seattle.
This was one of the most validating videos I have seen.
I love what they said about the power of language.
My whole life in the church, I have felt something was wrong, I felt disempowered and invalidated but was unable to articulate that to others, especially those in positions of power.
I just want to the women for this video, and giving me some of the language that I was didn’t know I needed. ❤❤
These discussions are needed, and they are important.
YES!!! I love the podcast Breaking Down Patriarchy; it is SO enlightening.
About 15 years ago my ward decided to have the young men and young women take turns passing out programs and holding the doors open during Sacrament. The backlash was so toxic. I was the first girl they asked to do it and the glares and looks I got were disturbing. And as a young woman I didn't know how to handle that and thought I was wrong even though my leaders told me to do it. It went back to just the young men doing it after that one Sunday.
Thank you ladies for your sacrifice to show up and have this conversation so people like me can become more educated. I too have to step away from
Conversations around church as I heal from leaving. But this is one episode that built me up and gave me strength to keep pushing myself for change and equality for the women and even men in my life ❤ so much love for all 3 of you!
To me these women’s conferences are a subtle way of reminding women to stay in their lanes, that they should be happy and grateful for their positions in the church and focus on the “nurturing, loving presence” they as women provide. It’s like they just want women to be a background presence and not have any control over any aspect of the church. It follows the patterns of repression that are encouraged in the church - if you are unhappy with a policy or leadership decision don’t question it because it comes from a priesthood holder. Just smile, nod, and be happy that you are part of the one true church. It’s belittling and a lie to say that women have actual power - don’t say they do when really they don’t.
“The men’s words are never formally vetted by women.” Mindy
Goodness me what a crazy true statement of reality.