Want to understand what the Bible says about hell? Read about heaven! with Lee Strobel
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Lee Strobel joins me on the first podcast of the year to talk about how understanding heaven will help us make sense of hell. What are some misconceptions we have about hell? Is there evidence for the supernatural realm? Can near death experiences confirm the existence of the soul?
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"If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are."
~ J. M. L. Monsabre
Recently, as a Christian, I had been struggling with the idea of non-existence, and I got scared by the thought that after this life consciousness disappears. I knew I had no reason to be scared, and that all I needed was faith in God to take care of my soul after death, but it was one of those irrational things I just couldn’t shake off entirely. Your talk about the near death experience has given me some relief in that area, it didn’t even occur to me that I should read up on near death experiences. Thank you 🙏
Don't forget to look into Pam Reynolds NDE. Her story is the best medically documented NDE. As she experienced an NDE during her brain surgery. She was hooked up to heart machines, brain scans machines, etc.
@@benstr8156 Oh wow that’s amazing! I’ll definitely look into her story!
1 Peter 3:15
“But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect,”
At 32:50 Strobel mentions "gnashing of teeth" yet there will also be "weeping," which insinuates regret.
I believe there is a heaven and hell because the Word of God speaks of it. Period!!
Amen!!!
Did they say otherwise
@@flowerpower3618 - I didn’t say they didn’t. I just stated my belief.
Unfortunately there’s a ton of bad beliefs you could also believe “because the Word of God speaks it.”
The earth is flat
It’s ok in some situation to own people as property
Having concubines and many wives; fine…
Flogging people - good
Drown people; hey if you made them.
There was a guy named Moses and a mass Exodus from Egypt - whoops, not so much.
Careful what you believe because a book says it. Not the best method to solely justify your beliefs.
@@ardbegthequestion
Your atheism, has blinded you. You are ignorant of the scriptures and twisting them to your own destruction.
No where does the scriptures teach the earth is flat
If anyone here wants to study the biblical evidence for annihilationism as Lee said he did (and he found it to be strong), here are three resources:
1. Rethinking Hell. We have a webpage with lots of videos, podcasts, debates, and articles. We also have a friendly facebook group where you can ask questions and meet others interested in this issue (including myself!).
2. I also have a collection of my own material that you can hopefully find if you google my name together with something like "hell" or "annihilationism" or "conditional immortality."
3. Most important of all: your Bible!!!
May God bless and guide all who are seeking His truth!
Listen to the next thing Lee says. The position falls short.
@@Strongtower
Yes, Lee says that the position falls short. That is his judgment.
I'm encouraging thinking Christians to look at the evidence on their own and make their own judgment. Listen to both sides. Study the Bible on this topic. Are you against that?
So how do you make sense of Jesus’s many teachings in hell and it’s current condition for those who reject Christ? The rich man in hell was not annihilated he was experiencing the torment.
@@MarkWCorbett1 No I'm not against it. I have and agree with Lee. Look at the original Greek. It will make sense then.
@@rosieds4996 , you are asking good questions!
I agree that the rich man was not annihilated, but was experiencing torment. However, the rich man was in the intermediate state, before the final resurrection and final judgment. He was in Hades, not Gehenna (Gehenna is usually translated "hell" in most modern English translations). So what was happening to him then does not really tell us what will happen at the final judgment. The story does not tell us that he would remain in torment forever. Temporary torment is consistent with annihilationism.
As far as Jesus's many teachings on hell, they actually support conditional immortality and annihilationism. Here are some examples:
CSB17 Matthew 10:28 Don't fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
CSB17 Luke 13:1 At that time, some people came and reported to him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
2 And he responded to them, "Do you think that these Galileans were more sinful than all the other Galileans because they suffered these things?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as well.
4 Or those eighteen that the tower in Siloam fell on and killed-- do you think they were more sinful than all the other people who live in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as well."
CSB17 John 3:16 For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
I've had friends say if they go to hell they'll be at the bar drinking beer all day. I say maybe but the good "feeling" and taste from the beer will be gone because even that is a grace from God. So you'll be compelled to drink and never be satisfied. And. that is just one small grace that will be gone.
Years ago when I was quite depressed I began to wish for death. Then I heard about this notion that people who believe in reincarnation believe that if you make big mistakes in life (including suicide) you have to go back and relive all of that until you 'get it right'. I thought that's not true, the truth is probably far worse. And yet the power of that idea caused me to want to move through my suffering and not faint. Finally the Lord took away that darkness. But sometimes people need to realize that things could be worse and find hope in their struggle
At 43:58 Childers makes an excellent statement which can be used as a response to someone inquiring if their loved one is in Hell.
"I can't know everything, but God is perfectly just and fair."
Yes, God is good but God will punish those who reject the gospel, no one has a leg to stand on if that person rejects Jesus Christ.
It seems to be an easy way to avoid having to state what she clearly thinks happens to dead unbelievers.
Exactly @truncated7644 . Yes your loved one is in hell but I dont want to say it to your face
This is what my opinion is on near Death experiences is to me.
When doctors say you were clinically dead does not mean you are dead. I believe you are dead when God decides you are. You are in some state of unconscious that God puts you in in till God decides it's over . Now God might decide to give you a message in this state to help his kingdom.
God doesnt need to think about anything ,He already knows Before we was born.
Dane - when you are underwater for 30 minutes and cannot breath. Are you clinically dead? probably.
Are you really dead? again, probably.
You should look up Dr. Mary Neal;
She was stuck underwater in a kayak for 30 minutes.
Actually being (fully) dead isn't a big deal. If Jesus raised people from the dead, why can't God bring people back to life from NDE (fully) dead?
Wow! So awesome to have Lee Strobel on! I read his new book The Case for Heaven and loved it so much!!!
So good! Confirmation of what seems to be pretty clear in scripture. ❤️ Blessed by your channel and ministry.
I thank God for the ministries of both Lee Strobel and Alisa Childers. May God use them to bless many!
I am subscribed to your channel. It is very much underrated. I am surprised it has not grown more.
+1 Mark😊
@Mark Corbett have you had any comments deleted from this thread? I have attempted, twice to interact with this thread and it seems, at least as far as I can tell, that the comments appear and persist for a short time but then are deleted.
@@gingrai00 , I haven't had any deleted from this thread that I know of. Did your comments include links to other videos or materials? They might not allow that.
@@MarkWCorbett1 I think, maybe, there could be a length limit🥴🤓… I broke the one up that was getting deleted and it seems to be holding😅
I do think it’s actual fire though because the Bible identifies the actual matter that makes up the “lake of fire” sulfur is an example. I think it’s easy for God to make a fire that does not illuminate hells darkness.
I saw that play, too. My sister saw it and I think it was a catalyst for her conversion as a young teen. The skit has been around awhile.
What a powerful and uplifting ending. Alisa, thank you so much for this interview and all your work.
The idea that almost all people who ever lived will burn in the lake of fire, in a constant conscious pain and agony forever and ever, cannot ever be uplifting. It is always horrifying, depressing, sorrowful, agonizing and utterly hopeless.
@@theodosios2615
If you read the Bible in a certain way, like in a very literal manner and this manner leads to a conclusion that God is either a total failure or pure evil. Does this mean that you have to accept God being a total failure or evil?
The truth is, that if we scrutinize God torturing somebody for a literal eternity with wisdom, we come to only two options, either God is truly loving and does not want to torture anybody for eternity, he hates even the idea of doing that to His own children whom he created but He failed to the most horrifying proportions so that even Him, being all powerful, still, cannot do anything about it, cannot do nothing but torture most of His human children He created for a literal eternity without any hope or ability to stop it, ever again.
The other option is that He is truly all powerful and He does not need to torture anybody for eternity, he has the powers and the ability to stop all torture in the universe and fix every creature to behave in a good and loving manner and to put the whole universe into the right and perfect order but in His core nature, He is not loving but evil and He wants to torture most of people for eternity, that is His natural desire, therefore He will torture them for all eternity.
So which of the three options do you think is the correct one? 1 - God loves His creatures and does not want to torture them but He failed to the most horrifying proportions and cannot stop the torture ever again. 2 - God can stop the torture because He is all powerful but He is not loving in His core nature and will torture people for eternity out of His personal desire. 3 - We are reading those verses which talks about the torment forever and ever too literally, even though they should not be read like that.
Just finished listening to Dr. Peter J. Williams (Tyndale House) on Dr. James Tour's channel, and now listening to Lee Strobel. I'm feeling full.
Alisa Childers... I believe in Jesus Christ and desperately trying to turn away from sin. I just have a knee jerk reaction to the Bible and the Christian Paradigm which scares me and tells me I'm not one of the elect. I'm attempting to start a fast so as to dedicate myself to prayer and study asking that you pray for me.
I have definitely suffered demonic attachment and can't believe how when I was released I went back to my sinful life. I do have a lot of strong feelings that are rooted in shame guilt regret. I'm 65 years old don't know how much time I have left. I fear I don't have it in me to be a man of God and this terrifies me.
Don’t be afraid. Trust the Lord. He is good and just. He knows what you are going through and the battle within your heart.
Give it to Him and follow Him as best you can. Repent for sins that will inevitably challenge you along the way and strive to always be more like the Lord. Don’t panic.
Have you accepted Him as your Lord and savior believing in Him and His payment for our sins on the cross? Do you believe when He said “it is finished” that the payment for our sin really was finished and done? Do you believe He died in body but has ascended to the Father?
If yes, then you will be with Him in paradise after you close your eyes for the last time here on this earth.
As long as you are alive on this earth m, there is time to accept the Lord. If you have, just continue to follow Him and trust that He has made a way for us.
I have also prayed for you and provided scripture for you to look at concerning salvation to strengthen your faith and trust in the Lord.
God bless you brother.
✝️❤️🙏
“So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.” Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. *All those the Father gives me will come to me*, and *whoever comes to me I will never drive away*. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but *to do the will of him who sent me*. And *this is the will of him who sent me*, that *I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.*””
John 6:30-40 NIV
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and *purify us from all unrighteousness.*”
1 John 1:7-9 NIV
“No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Romans 8:37-39 NIV
“I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people- for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.”
1 Timothy 2:1-6 NIV
“The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.””
John 10:24-30 NIV
““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever- *the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him*. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”
John 14:15-17 NIV
“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will- to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment-to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession-to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:3-14 NIV
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation-but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”
“In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah: We have a strong city; God makes salvation its walls and ramparts. Open the gates that the righteous nation may enter, the nation that keeps faith. *You will keep in perfect peace those whose minds are steadfast, because they trust in you*. Trust in the Lord forever, for the Lord, the Lord himself, is the Rock eternal.”
Isaiah 26:1-4 NIV
I’m wondering how the imagery of hell is metaphorical? Among the many references to hell, the bible clearly describes satan being thrown into the lake of fire. Not only that, who said that hell is limited to the physics of the natural world? If it’s a spiritual place and God can manifest anything, couldn’t there be darkness and fire at once? It also says that the fire will not be quenched and the worm will not die. I don’t see how we can designate concepts about hell as metaphor but those about heaven as realities to look forward to…can you clarify?
This is really helpful. Thank you, Alisa and Lee!
We don’t want a watered down gospel! We want Christ fully! I love Alisa and her boldness in Jesus Christ!
Love this... heaven wasn't ever a place I saw attractive either. Thank you for touching on that!
Scary theology towards the end, sounded like Mormonism, giving people second chances! 😮
Just remember that there are demons able to whisper things to people.
When I was 5 years old I spent a horrible night with the most excruciating earache that would only stop when my mother prayed the Lord's prayer, but the moment she stopped the pain returned and I would start screaming - Pray mommy, pray! -
The next day, early in the morning, we went to our relatives place, their young daughter was possessed and they asked my mom (who was a "medium") to go help.
I still remember stepping into the room and seeing the girl kneeling on the bed and laughing as she looked at me and mocked - Pray mommy, pray! - and laughed and laughed.
We hadn't told anyone about the night, no one but me and my mom knew about it.
There's a lot of "evidence" of this kind out there.
Wow! What country did this happen in?
your mother was involved as well..a source with mixed roots... Break those chains!
I continue to be perplexed by the separation of science and "God". I see science as the toolbox of God. He created all of the elements and knew all of the interactions thereof. If science and "God" are separate, then one or the other are needless. I know that God is the origin of all that is. If we could explain his mechanism, processes or nature of it all, we would be part and parcel of the Godhead. Faith. Blessed are those who having not seen yet believe.
So an old friend of mine was a Dungeons and Dragons DM back in the day. One thing she would do to screw with groups was give them a well-worn man's left shoe in their loot, just to see how long they would hold onto it. The near death experience where the woman saw that exact item on the roof had me rolling at our inside joke. I guess God is in on it, too.
God has a sense of humor.
Love the quote by Luis Palau.
This was fascinating! Thank you, Alisa Childers and Lee Strobel. This makes me want to research NDE's.
Jennifer - near death experiences is a demonic lie to get you into spiritualism....we get our doctrines from scripture and not from someone else's expereince or even our own....the devil is behind this lie - does the bible mention it anywhere---you have been warned, for we get what we look for and the devil is watching as a roaring lion.........read the book - the fire that consumes and you will learn that hell is annihilation and not forever in a burning pit, as the bible clearly teaches when you read it properly
It was interesting and insightful podcast for most of the part. Although, what about the lake of fire? As it a metaphor as Mr Lee says and not a literal flame? Look at outer space, it is a place of darkness but there are flaming spheres like the sun and stars. Nevertheless, as it is written: "Let God be true and every man a liar.
I wonder if Lee Strobel will include these Jesus NDE stories in his book:
Read and notice at the end that he had a changed life too: IANDS - "I was hit by a car while riding my motorcycle. I died on the operating table. I went through the dark into the light - a soft bluish light. An entity (Jesus to me) was of the light, and the light was a doorway. I was not in this body, but I was as normal as my body here. We spoke without speaking. Joy was all over me. I was relieved to know it is real! Jesus said, "I know it hurts and I know it is bad. You have not done what you said you would do and must go back." I refused. Jesus said, "You will come here, just not now…not yet. I am sorry." Then I was on the operating table and heard someone say, "We got him” and then "Oh my God he is awake.” I AM NOW AN ORDAINED MINISTER AND I PREACH. I WAS SHOWN THERE IS NO HELL. We all go home."
I'll give you another Jesus story...NDERF - Karen: "She took me and placed me in a crystal-like bed and told me to rest because there were beings who wanted to honor and welcome me. I saw beings cued up to greet me. I spied Jesus among them and immediately felt as though something was wrong. I asked the being who brought me, how it was that Jesus wants to honor me. I told her that I was afraid that putting myself at the same level as Jesus would damn me to hell. SHE LAUGHED AND TOLD ME THERE IS NO HELL. We are all equal in spirit form."
Should I keep going? Here's another one for you....Anita Moorjani: "IS THERE A HELL? This is a question I get asked over and over...and THE ANSWER IS HELL NO! I often marvel at how inventive we humans are and at all the stories we’ve created over the millennia to explain what happens to us after death. I was extremely fearful of death before my NDE. I was afraid of karma, and in fact, I believed that my cancer was caused by karma. When I was on the other side, I expected to get punished for all the things I did wrong. I thought there was judgement for all the things we had done wrong. BUT INSTEAD THERE WAS COMPASSION AND UNDERSTANDING FOR WHY I DID WHAT I DID. The souls that cross over take with them their education from their time on earth, as experiences are not judged any more than people are. I understood clearly that there is no judgement on the other side, THERE IS NO MORAL HAMMER THAT IS DROPPED; I saw clearly that this is a human device used by other humans to make us fall in line with the moral majority. Since there is no judgement on the other side, there is no punishment. We gain an understanding of the effects we had on everyone else, but before we are pulled into the human drama of regret or guilt, we are uplifted to understand that we are not judged. We are left with a complete understanding from the other side that there is nothing but love for our souls, and our lives as they were. There is a great section in my book where I address this topic. The section is called "Judgement Day Cometh Not". I WOULD NEVER USE THE PHRASE 'BAD KARMA', AS I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS SUCH A THING. I simply believe all aspects of life are needed to create the whole. Neither do I believe anymore that we live out all our lives sequentially in linear time, which is the framework that many people have for their ideas about karma. In the NDE state, however, I realized that every moment in all our lives-past, present, future - unknown, unknown, and unknowable-exist simultaneously, as though outside of what we know as time."
What about this story, from a lady who was trafficked starting at 2 years old, and had a drowning NDE...Anne Murphy: "All there was, was the most unconditional love, compassion, pure and total acceptance with no judgement at all. I WAS SHOWN THAT THERE IS NO JUDGEMENT AND NO HELL, NO OPINIONS, NO PUNISHMENT, not like what we are taught here, about a judgemental God and being sent to hell if you're bad, that was not the case. There was no judgement at all from the beings with me or from within myself. It was total compassion, and then remembering I chose my earthly experience. It was just an experience. Love is what we all are. THERE WAS NO SEPARATE GOD KEEPING SCORE AND DOLING OUT JUDGEMENTS AND PUNISHMENTS. THERE WAS NOTHING TO FORGIVE IN THAT STATE OF BEING. There was nothing negative, no shame, guilt, or sense of not being worthy. And I saw that for everybody. THERE WAS NO COMPARISON IN THAT STATE, SO EVERYTHING IS ACCEPTED COMPLETELY. THERE'S NO GREATER THAN, LESS THAN, OR SCORE KEEPING. I saw in my NDE that whether people loved or hated something about me in this human experience, was exactly the same. It was completely neutral. And they showed me what can happen to some people...some people can have a "hellish"" kind of experience...what I saw is that that is when people are still kind of stuck between the human and the...like they haven't fully let go of all the human stuff. Which was self imposed, they believe they need to be judged or they think that's the truth, so that happens. Because we're required to drop it all. It all goes when we return to our true being, our true essence, our true home. Earth is all about contrast. Who we really are is unconditional love. My very abusive adoptive father died on the 28 of June this year and I helped him. He was terrified he was going to "the other place", but in the weeks before, we had many discussions where I reminded him of his true self, what was waiting for him when he "goes home", and that it was not necessary for him to judge himself and become stuck in some "hell" like state, and he didn't. Right at the moment he passed, his true essence was with me, no longer the human and it was pure unconditional love and it went through me and I knew his true being. It was incredible. I shared his death experience with him. He had everyone waiting for him, but I couldn't go in. There's always a barrier. Only those moving fully into "death" pass that barrier."
Have another one....A. Johnson: "I can tell you one thing for sure, THERE WAS NO JUDGEMENT. THERE WAS NOTHING I HAD EVER DONE THAT WASN'T COMPLETELY FORGIVEN, AND 'FORGIVEN' IN THAT CONTEXT MEANT IT WAS GONE. It did not exist. GOD WASN'T HOLDING ME ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT, God was loving me right through it, and IT WAS TOTAL AND COMPLETE FORGIVENESS. We dont have to prove ourselves to be loved by God. What I learned on the other side is that THERE'S NO JUDGEMENT ON US, NONE, ZIP, NADA. IN THE OTHER REALM THERE'S NO JUDGEMENT BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO JUDGE. We're all pure unconditional love. THERE'S NO HELL, THERE'S NO PUNISHMENT. When you realize there's nothing to forgive, then there's nothing to punish either."
Must I continue on further?...J. Olson: "There was this divine presence coming up behind me. This wise cosmic presence. I'm thinking 'oh my goodness, that's God coming.' And then the guilt began to bubble up again. I had the thought 'I hope I can be forgiven.' I was fearful, very fearful. That's when the download came...truth and wisdom and light and love. The first thing that was communicated was THERE'S NOTHING TO FORGIVE. Everything's in perfect divine order. And I thought 'how can that be?' My life was presented before my eyes. There were these things that I was saying 'no no that was a mistake'. I WAS TOLD THERE ARE NO MISTAKES, YOUR LIFE IS PERFECT. I would say 'that was wrong, I knew it was wrong and I did it anyway.' THIS BEAUTIFUL BEING COMMUNICATED, THOSE ARE YOUR JUDGEMENTS OF IT, NOT OURS, WE LOVE YOU. It was this unconditional outpouring of love. BUT I KNEW IF THAT WAS TRUE OF ME, IT WAS TRUE OF EVERY ONE OF US. I WAS BEING SHOWN THAT IT WASN'T MY FAULT THAT I'M A HUMAN BEING CAPABLE OF HURTING PEOPLE, THAT THAT'S ENDEMIC IN WHAT IT IS TO BE A HUMAN BEING...IF YOU'RE A HUMAN BEING, YOU'RE GOING TO HURT PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T STOP THAT. And this voice was speaking, 'I LOVE YOU, I MADE YOU, I FORGIVE YOU, I CREATED YOU, I'M CREATOR YOU ARE CREATURE, AND I LOVE YOU.'
So enjoying this!
What about all the positive and heavenly NDEs people have who aren't Christians at all....totally glossed over that...
There seem to be two things going on. The floating up part where people see things in the hospital room. And then the hellish and heavenly experiences. The floating stories seem to have a much firmer case for being real rather than the heavenly and hellish experiences where to see them as real and concrete is more of a step of faith. Near death experiences come in all sorts of varieties. One person in their near death experience starred in their own star wars film.
At 26:17 and 33:50 Lee Strobel says Hell isn't a torture chamber. Yet he clearly cited Howard Storm's experience of having his ears ripped off and his eyes gouged out by demons.
So was Howard Storm's experience a hallucination?
This is what I was wondering...
I wonder if this annihilation doctrine is the way unbelievers comfort themselves in their unbelief? Are they saying, "I know I will suffer for my unbelief but it won't be for eternity. At some point it will end." I'll have to look into Mr. Strobel's book to understand the argument for it by someone like Stott.
Denying the existence of Hell is the oldest lie in the book. Gen 3:4 “You won’t die!” the serpent replied to the woman.
Which hell? Gahenna, Hades, Tartarus?
Loved this. Thank you xx
I really like Lee Strobel and will read the book. I am bothered by the concept of what he says about children who die before the age of accountability. I will need to explore his view on this further.
Are you saying that if we walked away from God in life after accepting Him we cannot go back?
Most likely you were never saved in the first place. When one truly knows the grace of the Lord, sin and repentance is possible , but living in sin continually as a practice and not caring indicates one never knew thedepravity of their own sin in the first place , which is a requirement for salvation.
Love that movie. One of my favourites.
I would respectfully disagree with the point made at 24:30 that the flames are not literal since they would light up the darkness. There is such a thing as a chemical burn where the flames are clear. Watch the pit fires during refueling of a Indianapolis 500.
Though I don’t disagree about the degree one will suffer, isn’t fiery tribulation redemptive? Is Jesus the Savior of all mankind? Didn’t he preach to those in hell the good news?
@denisemcduff4878 - Jesus is the Savior of all mankind and He seems to have preached to those in hell, but what did Jesus say about the unforgiveable sin: Matt 12:32 "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this life or in the life to come." What did the Holy Spirit come to do according to Jesus: John 16-8-11 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: 9 regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and regarding righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you no longer are going to see Me; 11 and regarding judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged."
If you speak against the Holy Spirit (rejecting His work and testimony of Jesus) you cannot ever come to repentence and without repentence, you cannot be forgiven. That's why those in Hell will never get out of Hell because they will never believe or accept the convicting work of the Holy Spirit, because they reject Him.
Alisa thank you so much for making the point that God is fair and just! And to be content to know that He will act in that way…..if I don’t think this way I can go down a really dark rabbit hole of WHY????
God is merciful he give a second chance to repent in Purgatory.
@@chardo24 Where is Purgatory in the Bible?
@@deanna8217 Roman Catholic Christians who believe in purgatory interpret passages such as 2 Maccabees 12:41-46, 2 Timothy 1:18, Matthew 12:32, Luke 16:19-16:26, Luke 23:43, 1 Corinthians 3:11-3:15 and Hebrews 12:29 as support for prayer for purgatorial souls who are believed to be within an active interim state for the dead ...
@@chardo24 Thanks for the verses. I looked up 3 and I don't see the context you are referring to here, but I will have to go in and read the full chapters surrounding them later when I have time.
@1woksape C.S Lewis has been dead for years.
Degrees of rewards and punishments
May I ask what you’re using for your podcast? I love the format of everything
Good discussion. Hell is separation from God's presence. Heaven is being in God's presence. This is why Christians on earth never "go through hell" when experiencing a difficult time, no matter how difficult. That is a blasphemous idea. God is always with us. Heb. 9:27, "death then judgement" leads us to Rev. 20:10-15. Hell is a temporary but real place. Hell will be "thrown into the Lake of fire". This is permanent.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I love Christian philosophy and apologetics. Regarding Lee's belief's in this video about Hell, he mentioned that ideas of a burning fire is figurative since you can't have fire and outer darkness existing at the same time since the fire would give off light. That may be true in our world of apparent limited physics. But dead men don't get up and walk either. If Lee believes that Jesus actually rose from the dead, he may need to consider the possibility that fire (lake of fire as the bible puts it specifically), existing along with outer darkness, may very well be possible.
The spirit of God that makes man a living soul returns to the Creator at death. The soul is the essence of who that person is, including the mind and body. The person is dead in the grave with no consciousness until the resurrection when Christ returns.
“Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living soul.”
Genesis 2:7
Jesus the Messiah says; “ Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out-those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.”
John 5:28-29
Beautiful!! 😍
Post mortem repentance is not unbiblical. One verse you referred to was Hebrews, appointed to men once to die. In context this verse speaks of Jesus dying once for all and in Him we have already been judged righteous. Interesting, the concept of graduated experience in hell. Makes sense that everyone on the way toward restoration and reconciliation will suffer a different range of experience. Also nothing can exist outside of Christ who holds all things together which agrees with Thessalonians where people are punished from (indicates source) the presence of the Lord (Who is a consuming fire) and from the glory of His power. This shows that everyone experiences whatever they experience from being in the presence of the Lord. I think another misconception of heaven and hell is that they are not both part of the kingdom of God. The Revelation shows the kingdom of God having a city that is never closed and with a variety of people involved. There are servants of Almighty God, there is the bride, there are sons, there are nations and kings of the earth that bring their glory to God. There are believers and unbelievers in the same scenes. So the possibility and probability of someday everyone coming to repentance is definitely there. In fact, scripture says that at some point, every knee will bow and every tongue, willingly and with joy, confess Jesus AS LORD, to the glory of the Father. This is very good news. Actually the stories of what is referred to NDE's show post mortem repentance. You said final death. Sounds like theological tap dancing. A person is dead or not. We could say Lazarus died but not a final death. It seems to me that the case for ultimate universal reconciliation is stronger than Arminianism and Calvinism or any other theological position, even though they all are supported by certain scriptures. Don't throw out the possibility by confirmation bias.
My hell ducks flying everywhere & I'm out of shotgun shells..... No I should not joke
The middle section about the lack of remorse in hell is spot on. There is also scriptural basis for the degrees of punishment in hell as well. I agree with disagreeing with annihalationism; again the scriptures such as "eternity in the hearts of men" in Ecclesiastes; the verses in Revelation about eternal judgment having to be equivalent to eternity in heaven (or eventually those in heaven would cease to exist) makes things pretty clear. Unfortunately; with MANY scriptures in Psalms; the physical evidence in Numbers when the earth swallowed the rebels ALIVE and whole; taking the story of Lazarus as LITERAL with the rich man it is pretty evident the soul remains. This business of thinking that hell is symbolic just doesn't fit with the HUNDREDS of scriptures stating the dead reside in the lower parts of the earth (Deuteronomy); the verses about demons in the abyss and those angels who rebelled now suffering in eternal chains (Jude and Peter) show that some are already judged because of certain sexual sins with men. We must understand that paradise was taken captive (Captivity taken captive) according to Peter; when the gospel was PROCLAIMED to those in hades; and the paradise section was taken to heaven. Access to God means that to be "absent from the body is present with the Lord" today. Satan no longer has the power over death; which before the cross they awaited the redemption that Christ FINISHED at the cross. Surely, the inner part of the earth is both black and full of fire.
There are physical descriptions in Isaiah 66 of men looking into the pit. Hades; the current hell with all the dead under the earth and sea will be emptied and all those will after the Great White Throne judgment be cast into the lake of fire. The most important matter that is the focus of this study is the NDE's and after death experiences. I agree that these individuals had real experiences with viewing the natural world out of body; however there are too many cases where clearly the gods of other religions are promoted as to speaking to people; cases where supposed individuals have passed on gradually transform to demonic entities; and where people come back promoting New Age philosophies. It is niave to think that Satan wouldn't use these individuals to promote demonic visions; especially this idea of Chrsit being anything other than the Presence that John; Daniel and Isaiah would state that they fell down as though dead; were in great fear and undone because of His holiness. I would also warn about Mr. Pilau and his compromising with Catholicism. We need to realize that no one is good; not even one. Those we think are kind and loving apart from Christ can only trust their own feelings. To love those who despitefully use us; to love people enough to tell the truth only comes from the Grace of God. We can be a Mother Theresa acclaimed by the world; but who never preached the Gospel. The biggest danger as Christians in name only is that we face greater damnation; it is better never to have known the truth according to the Bible then to taste the truths of scripture and fall away reprobate. The false religion of the Pharasees gave them the greatest punishment; we all should heed to the warnings in Matthew of those who claimed to do many great works in Christ's name but were told to depart; "I never knew you".
we see what we have been trained or taught to see - there is no hell just annihilation read - the fire that consumes by willaim Edward Fudge
The Lord does not give an immortal body to the lost but the saved must " put on immortality" so it seems clear scripture says the lost 'perish and Thier END is destruction". Bc they are cast bodily once resurrected to condemnation ...to the lake of fire. But they r not immortal by nature bodily. Most don't realize that and although it was a cmon belief early in the church the conscious torment doctrine comes from Augustine and others bc they held that view so the other was kept a minoroty position and RCC promoted this immortality of man bc Augustine was a student of Plato who believed that but it's actually not biblical. I think it also comes from misunderstanding figurative language bc gentile converts we're not familiar w old testament idioms so they gave them literal and private interpretation. I studied the gate of the lost over a year finding every verse in OT and NT so it was the Bible itself that changed my mind to believing Jesus when He said not to fear the one who can KILL the body but to fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in ghenna...so it'sy position that God destroys the "both body and soul" and they perish. Their END is destruction. Although I think there are levels of judgment before they r destroyed fitting Thier crimes. I don't insist others agree w me tho but I wish the saints would stop calling us heretics just bc we believe scripture is true when it says the lost are not immortal and that only the saved put on immortality. There's too much dogmatism and division in the church. God bless you
@@reneerolandgraceinyourface ..............You are right - there is no eternal burning fire as hell - there is punishment for the sinner but it ends in annihilation...I get the impression you are also a Sabbath keeper and there are levels of punishment as stated in Luke 12. 47-48.....read -the fire that consumes by William Edward Fudge
I'm pretty sure the play you mention is "heaven's Gates and hell's flames"
Lk12:48 talks about degree of punishment in hell? is this for the servants -- christians? please explain. thanks.
Dear Alisa ...the sign behind you looks like a broken cross ( popular in the 70 ‘s ) . What DOES it mean ?
and when will you discuss the Noahide Laws?
Kept waiting for the answer but never got it. They went every were but the answer. Just click bait. They almost answered but never answered the question. What a waste of time!
what was the question that Strobel failed to answer about hell or soul
@@DavidKing-qd3sp At what time marker did they answer the question about hell? Did I miss it?
Thank you Alisa for a great discussion. I’m confused though at minute 42ish and after where the topic of judgment at death is immediate and decided but Lee talked about NDEs where people cried out to Jesus and He came to them and saved them and they back to life saved people. Then Lee is saying the judgement is decided and there is no changing or conversion once the physical death happens and the soul leaves the body. Which is it? Thank you
If they “ came back to life” they weren’t dead dead.
@1woksape I vote for C. S. Lewis. That would be a miracle!
@@flowerpower3618 " they weren’t dead dead"
For the longest time, I can see the validity of this argument.
Just now, I'm reminded of how Jesus raised people from the dead.
If Jesus can raised the dead (dead), why can't God do the same with NDE deaths?
Beth - Lee bring up a very important point. After you die, if you cry out to Jesus, He will come get you out of hell. There is a second judgment resulting in the second death. This judgment is final. After which, I wonder if crying out to Jesus can still get you out.
Rev 20:14 This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Hebrews 9:27
Can a rational being reject God for an eternity? To do so would not be rational it seems.
Matthew in 11 talking about certain cities suffering in certain ways is a piece of primativism. A city is a generalization and all of us are very complicated and multi dimensional. The idea that people sentence themselves to hell falls down on four main points (1) The evidence for Jesus being the son of God - that is God in human form is in no sense definative (2) Not all people get an equal chance to hear about Jesus (3) It is not equally easy or equally hard for people to accept Christ due to their circumstances (4) There is not a neat division between those who accept Christ (if Christ is love) and those who do not. No Christian completely accepts God. They all hold things back from "him". Many do not follow the command about poverty. Many pray shallowly in case God ruins their own plans for their lives. Many atheists perform works that support and heal other people that are greater than that of many christians who have said the sinners prayer and go to church and receive communion. The fact that the bible is not annialationist makes it a far more barbaric book. If the bible was in favor of this I would be much closer to being a christian. It is not a secondary issue. Tbe fact that there is not annialationalism means that God is incredibly barbaric. The ultimate point is would God do something as ultimately pointless as to keep people alive in torment for all eternity no matter what they had done. The bible leaves a huge gap about children going to hell - and what about someone with a mental age of a child going to hell whose father had beaten him and so could not understand a loving God. The bible needs to explain these things. It is not enough to indulge in trust in a God that hides evidence about his personality by refusing to disclose his hand.
I do not agree that God's description of hell with fire is a 'metaphor'. If you look at really hot fires, the flames are deep blue and even black. So it is in fact possible to have hell and it be total darkness if the fire is that hot. I think too often, people would like to consign things in the Bible to 'metaphors' than to think of them as a potential 'reality' because it scares them. Well, Hell isn't supposed to be a nice place and we should in fact be scared of going to such a place. In Jesus' story of Lazarus in Hell, Lazarus wanted something to quench his thirst from the extreme heat. I don't think Jesus is a liar nor was making a 'metaphor' from this. Non-Christians take heed, this is NOT a metaphor in the Bible. Also, he denies that it's a place of torture, yet gave a very real account of a man's NDE where he was "torn apart by demons and Jesus saved him after he called out to Him". So if this man had not called out, resuscitated, and live, he would've stayed in that very real place of TORMENT and TORTURE. I respect Lee Strobel, but he is denying his own words that he stated at the beginning of this podcast. Heaven is real and not a 'metaphor' so why would we think Hell is a 'metaphor'? God's word is literal and real. Do we understand all of it right now? Probably not, especially parts of Revelations, but that doesn't mean that what God said is not literal or real. Let's not lean on our own understanding and lean on His. Take God at His word.
Everyone falls short of the law of God. This is why Christ had to die on the cross to give man a way to get to the other side.
So all of our short comings or sins have been taken up by Christ. All anyone has to do is believe on Him to be saved or able to spend eternity with Him. Satan isn't in charge of Hell, he's not on God's payroll to be the warden of the after life. We can all be sure the Lord is going to make the right choices for everyone, He knows our DNA, there is nothing He doesn't know, there isn't anything for Him to learn. So trust in His word and deeds, don't be deceived by evolutionists and doctrines of demons.
Look, if we _want_ to believe that this isn't it, we'll make it happen, as far as _convincing_ ourselves. Honestly, go for it.
As a side note, I think they're not understanding what the object of science is, and the reality that imperfect human beings are there, looking for stuff that they think is there - only to see the problem was in the question.
But that is all we have - human beings trying to make sense in how they'll want to understand it.
Religion and their texts are no different. They're there to reassure us and that is fine.
Oh Alisa, you're such a gem. I love your infectious smile, your awesome as an interviewer. You have great channel, great guests. You make me smile... and I'm in a dark health woe place, battling to see good in anything. You literally brighten up my life (lived 90% in recliner). God bless you and Yours 💙💜💛🧡💚
dear, how are you by now?
I have a question to ask for all the Christians who claims that we, human beings, all deserve to be burned in flames of fire for a literal endlessness, that this is a just punishment for everyone of us. Here is my problem; justice is not an evil thing, it is not a bad thing, no, justice is good thing, a very good thing, it is a positive thing and all truly good things, 100%, whether it is a good car, a good idea, a good work, a good tool, a good wife a good husband etc. always bring joy to our heart, they never bring sadness or sorrow to our hearts, this is why they are called good things and not bad things.
So the question is, if what you claim is true, if all of us justly deserve endless torment in flames of fire, then why do you not rejoice of all the countless of people who will end up there? Why doesnt your heart is being filled with joy when you realise that almost all people will burn in flames of fire forever and ever? Why it brings sadness and sorrow instead? How can justice, which is a good thing, which suppose to always bring joy to our heart, brings a complete sorrow and sadness instead? How do you explain this?
Lee S doesn't believe in a literal outer darkness and fire 🔥 wow; et tu Lee?
I'm shocked!!!
The question can be asked: why do many people in the world have to live all their lives in utter poverty and even be sent to concentration camps (as still end up in hell after death)?
This question is difficult to answer if one believes in eternal torment. But from the point of view of conditional immortality, it can make sense. Those people may not deserve to suffer any more than they already did. But neither do they deserve to live forever in a perfect world without sin. So, they won't.
Because sin.
False notions about hell doesn’t make it true…I have scripture proving all will be saved……yes, there is reaping, but correction doesn’t last forever….would your father spank you forever….God is Love….one day the world will know Truth, that is Jesus our Lord and Savior……
@@suefonseca9034 We are eternal beings. So are the angels/demons. Angels/demons are NOT offered forgiveness of sins, but we are because Christ paid the judgement for our sins. The Bible clearly says the wages (what is earned) of sin is death ( the second death - the lake of burning fire prepared for Satan and his followers - both human and angels). I'm not an expert on hell/pergatory/waiting-for-judgement. But after the judgement for our lives for many (most?) will be the 2nd death.
For the dude with the cross tattoo on his foot, every time hes takes a step on his other foot hes picking up his cross. (Like Matt 16: 24)
The worm that never dies.
Who is buying any of this?
Not me.
As a conservative Christian, I believed firmly in the traditional view of Hell, Eternal Conscious Torment or Eternal Punishing, for most of my life. Only a few years ago, I became convinced that the Bible actually teaches death and eternal punishment as the wages of sin, not some form of non-living conscious awareness and eternal punishing. I embraced the position of Conditional Immortality, and everything made so much more sense. I love Lee and Alisa, and I have great respect for what they do. But this way of trying to explain Hell to other Christians seems silly now. I can't imagine how the unsaved receive it. It's no wonder it's one of the first doctrines to fall for those who leave the faith. I fear ECT is a faulty doctrine that also serves as a stumbling block to many who might otherwise consider Christ.
@@lepidoptera9337 Of course, I've considered it. As a Conditionalist, I reject it. We believe the eternal punishment is an eternal death from which one can never return, not eternal punishing (which somehow is death while conscious). The punishment that leads to eternal death may vary according to the severity of one's sin, though the Bible doesn't explicitly say this. As for the invention and propagation of the Eternal Conscious Punishment position, I think it has more to do with Greek thought, which had permeated much of the culture in the early Church. The Greeks believed the soul doesn't die. So what do you do with a damned soul that doesn't die? You make the punishing last forever.
@@lepidoptera9337Pope? I'm not a catholic. To me he's just a man. Show me where the Bible teaches eternal conscious torment. I've searched. It isn't there. The wages of sin is DEATH. John Stott was right.
Oh so this is where the Mad Max in the Princess Bride got it. "Mostly dead."
I appreciate your charity to annihilationists!
Hell is the absent of God. These days you can see that in places on earth and they are very dark places... not in the physical sense but spiritual.
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" Hebrews 9 : 27
Once you die, you can´t go back. No second chances.
25:46 Strobel: "for some people ... heaven would be hell." Not true, Lazarus and the rich man, Luke 16: "... And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
I hope my pets are in heaven. there is nothing more then I would want for them but to know Jesus they way they knew me and would prefer to be at His throne then to be with me. I want to be second in their eyes. I hope that they will be there and can know Jesus the way they knew me but with perfection. I know..they are only hamsters, rats, cats, gerbles, dogs and fish..but still. I just want them to have a better life then I ever gave them. I don't want this world with all the horrible things to be all this was to their little short lives.
Hell is not of God it is of man and anyone that teaches a hellfire is of the world and the truth is not in them, run from these heretics and live according to the truth that is our Father and men's fear mongering will depart from you!
HELL IS ANNIHILATION - THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH NOT LIFE IN A PIT..ROMANS 6.23...
Alisa, read the book - the Fire that Consumes by William Edward Fudge and learn that hell is annihilation
This is very sad.
In Le Strobels trailer for the movie over the book he is promoting here, there are some disturbing names with; like Francis Chan who has moved over to the Catholic corner and Howard Storm who claims he was in hell and then in heaven where he met Jesus. There are several interviews with Howard Storm, f.x. one where he is talking with Karen Swain; a woman who is known within the new age community. They talk about angelic encounters and all sorts of crazy things.
The Near death experiences should be questioned. Raymond Moody has written books about NDE where people claim to have out of body experiences and claim to have been in hell and heaven and meeting deseased relatives. Raymond Moody is also involved in new age stuff. He embraces reincarnation.
Test the Spirits -
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out.
1. John 4:1
Luke 16:19-31 Being tormented in flames. Do not diminish hell, it is fire , a lake of fire where there is weeping & gnashing of teeth. There is no light for Jesus is the Light so they are in darkness. Must tell the truth! It is real.
The story of lazarus is a parable - there is no place as hell - there is a fire that annihilates the sinner but then the fire goes out for God is love
@@DavidKing-qd3sp sorry, but you are Biblically incorrect. Either Jesus was telling the truth and there IS a hell, or you are telling the truth. Between you and Jesus, who is the liar?
@@Pecos1 ...........the word hell is not in the bible - 4 words are translated as hell but neither one means everlasting punishment - so neither Jesus nor I am lying or confused it's just that you are not educated in scripture--- you are a surface reader of the bible --try digging deeper and learn that God is love and does not torture people for eternity - how sick can you be - this would make Hitler a misunderstood saint...hell is from the Greek word -Gehenna which was a reference to the garbage dump in Jerusalem where the fire would consume you or when the fire went out the worms or maggots would consume you and this is referred to in isaiah 66.24...for the fire must go out for the worms to eat you ...and hades and sheol is the grave and tarturus is the darkness that surrounds the universe...so add to your zeal knowledge..please!......Hell-fire annihilates the sinner and this is what christ meant
I wonder if Lee Strobel will have these Jesus NDEs in his book:
Read and notice at the end that he had a changed life too: IANDS - "I was hit by a car while riding my motorcycle. I died on the operating table. I went through the dark into the light - a soft bluish light. An entity (Jesus to me) was of the light, and the light was a doorway. I was not in this body, but I was as normal as my body here. We spoke without speaking. Joy was all over me. I was relieved to know it is real! Jesus said, "I know it hurts and I know it is bad. You have not done what you said you would do and must go back." I refused. Jesus said, "You will come here, just not now…not yet. I am sorry." Then I was on the operating table and heard someone say, "We got him” and then "Oh my God he is awake.” I AM NOW AN ORDAINED MINISTER AND I PREACH. I WAS SHOWN THERE IS NO HELL. We all go home."
I'll give you another Jesus story...NDERF - Karen: "She took me and placed me in a crystal-like bed and told me to rest because there were beings who wanted to honor and welcome me. I saw beings cued up to greet me. I spied Jesus among them and immediately felt as though something was wrong. I asked the being who brought me, how it was that Jesus wants to honor me. I told her that I was afraid that putting myself at the same level as Jesus would damn me to hell. SHE LAUGHED AND TOLD ME THERE IS NO HELL. We are all equal in spirit form."
Should I keep going? Here's another one for you....Anita Moorjani: "IS THERE A HELL? This is a question I get asked over and over...and THE ANSWER IS HELL NO! I often marvel at how inventive we humans are and at all the stories we’ve created over the millennia to explain what happens to us after death. I was extremely fearful of death before my NDE. I was afraid of karma, and in fact, I believed that my cancer was caused by karma. When I was on the other side, I expected to get punished for all the things I did wrong. I thought there was judgement for all the things we had done wrong. BUT INSTEAD THERE WAS COMPASSION AND UNDERSTANDING FOR WHY I DID WHAT I DID. The souls that cross over take with them their education from their time on earth, as experiences are not judged any more than people are. I understood clearly that there is no judgement on the other side, THERE IS NO MORAL HAMMER THAT IS DROPPED; I saw clearly that this is a human device used by other humans to make us fall in line with the moral majority. Since there is no judgement on the other side, there is no punishment. We gain an understanding of the effects we had on everyone else, but before we are pulled into the human drama of regret or guilt, we are uplifted to understand that we are not judged. We are left with a complete understanding from the other side that there is nothing but love for our souls, and our lives as they were. There is a great section in my book where I address this topic. The section is called "Judgement Day Cometh Not". I WOULD NEVER USE THE PHRASE 'BAD KARMA', AS I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS SUCH A THING. I simply believe all aspects of life are needed to create the whole. Neither do I believe anymore that we live out all our lives sequentially in linear time, which is the framework that many people have for their ideas about karma. In the NDE state, however, I realized that every moment in all our lives-past, present, future - unknown, unknown, and unknowable-exist simultaneously, as though outside of what we know as time."
What about this story, from a lady who was trafficked starting at 2 years old, and had a drowning NDE...Anne Murphy: "All there was, was the most unconditional love, compassion, pure and total acceptance with no judgement at all. I WAS SHOWN THAT THERE IS NO JUDGEMENT AND NO HELL, NO OPINIONS, NO PUNISHMENT, not like what we are taught here, about a judgemental God and being sent to hell if you're bad, that was not the case. There was no judgement at all from the beings with me or from within myself. It was total compassion, and then remembering I chose my earthly experience. It was just an experience. Love is what we all are. THERE WAS NO SEPARATE GOD KEEPING SCORE AND DOLING OUT JUDGEMENTS AND PUNISHMENTS. THERE WAS NOTHING TO FORGIVE IN THAT STATE OF BEING. There was nothing negative, no shame, guilt, or sense of not being worthy. And I saw that for everybody. THERE WAS NO COMPARISON IN THAT STATE, SO EVERYTHING IS ACCEPTED COMPLETELY. THERE'S NO GREATER THAN, LESS THAN, OR SCORE KEEPING. I saw in my NDE that whether people loved or hated something about me in this human experience, was exactly the same. It was completely neutral. And they showed me what can happen to some people...some people can have a "hellish"" kind of experience...what I saw is that that is when people are still kind of stuck between the human and the...like they haven't fully let go of all the human stuff. Which was self imposed, they believe they need to be judged or they think that's the truth, so that happens. Because we're required to drop it all. It all goes when we return to our true being, our true essence, our true home. Earth is all about contrast. Who we really are is unconditional love. My very abusive adoptive father died on the 28 of June this year and I helped him. He was terrified he was going to "the other place", but in the weeks before, we had many discussions where I reminded him of his true self, what was waiting for him when he "goes home", and that it was not necessary for him to judge himself and become stuck in some "hell" like state, and he didn't. Right at the moment he passed, his true essence was with me, no longer the human and it was pure unconditional love and it went through me and I knew his true being. It was incredible. I shared his death experience with him. He had everyone waiting for him, but I couldn't go in. There's always a barrier. Only those moving fully into "death" pass that barrier."
Have another one....A. Johnson: "I can tell you one thing for sure, THERE WAS NO JUDGEMENT. THERE WAS NOTHING I HAD EVER DONE THAT WASN'T COMPLETELY FORGIVEN, AND 'FORGIVEN' IN THAT CONTEXT MEANT IT WAS GONE. It did not exist. GOD WASN'T HOLDING ME ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT, God was loving me right through it, and IT WAS TOTAL AND COMPLETE FORGIVENESS. We dont have to prove ourselves to be loved by God. What I learned on the other side is that THERE'S NO JUDGEMENT ON US, NONE, ZIP, NADA. IN THE OTHER REALM THERE'S NO JUDGEMENT BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO JUDGE. We're all pure unconditional love. THERE'S NO HELL, THERE'S NO PUNISHMENT. When you realize there's nothing to forgive, then there's nothing to punish either."
Must I continue on further?...J. Olson: "There was this divine presence coming up behind me. This wise cosmic presence. I'm thinking 'oh my goodness, that's God coming.' And then the guilt began to bubble up again. I had the thought 'I hope I can be forgiven.' I was fearful, very fearful. That's when the download came...truth and wisdom and light and love. The first thing that was communicated was THERE'S NOTHING TO FORGIVE. Everything's in perfect divine order. And I thought 'how can that be?' My life was presented before my eyes. There were these things that I was saying 'no no that was a mistake'. I WAS TOLD THERE ARE NO MISTAKES, YOUR LIFE IS PERFECT. I would say 'that was wrong, I knew it was wrong and I did it anyway.' THIS BEAUTIFUL BEING COMMUNICATED, THOSE ARE YOUR JUDGEMENTS OF IT, NOT OURS, WE LOVE YOU. It was this unconditional outpouring of love. BUT I KNEW IF THAT WAS TRUE OF ME, IT WAS TRUE OF EVERY ONE OF US. I WAS BEING SHOWN THAT IT WASN'T MY FAULT THAT I'M A HUMAN BEING CAPABLE OF HURTING PEOPLE, THAT THAT'S ENDEMIC IN WHAT IT IS TO BE A HUMAN BEING...IF YOU'RE A HUMAN BEING, YOU'RE GOING TO HURT PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T STOP THAT. And this voice was speaking, 'I LOVE YOU, I MADE YOU, I FORGIVE YOU, I CREATED YOU, I'M CREATOR YOU ARE CREATURE, AND I LOVE YOU.'
@@Pecos1 Jesus was talking about the physical place of Gehenna , just outside Jerusalem.
The Lord’s speaking about the man who died, was being tormented in the flames and was begging for Abraham to send someone with at least a drop of water on their finger to cool his torment didn’t/doesn’t sound like a metaphor or allegory to me. It sounds/reads very specific and pointed. I find it hard to believe the Lord would do something akin to word games, leaving it up to those listening to figure it out that he was only trying to get across an idea of how bad it would be. That doesn’t line up with the Lord’s directness and clear speaking, parables aside; and, I don’t find any scriptural evidence his speaking about the man dying and being tormented in the flames was another parable.
I don’t agree with Lee’s statement that there couldn’t be flames and darkness because flames would light up the darkness. That seems presumptuous. We obviously don't know the exact reality of hell, but there's no basis to presume the flames of torment there would line up with our limited perceptions of how certain flames act within our material reality in this life.
I do agree that, literal flames or not, the primary torment, the worse of the reality of hell, will be the full, sudden and never-ending awareness of being eternally ( think about that term - a trillion, trillion, trillion eons will pass… and it will be as if it has just begun … ) cut off from God; the One who loved enough to give His own life to prevent anyone from consigning themselves to an endless eternity cut off from Him and His great love.
Could it be that some levels of hell as he talked about are darkness and others are fire?
"Anyone’s name not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15). I know this is not what we want to hear but this is written in the Bible: are we absolutely sure it is a symbol? It could be - but it seems that 'fire' is mentioned in the majority of passages which speak of punishment and hell.
If it is a symbol, we may contemplate these sobering words from RC Sproul “the symbol is always exceeded in intensity by the reality it represents … the lake of fire imagery is just the worst thing that Jesus could use to describe it … the people in hell may be praying that they could have the pleasure of resting in a lack of fire” “Hell is so bad that we would not believe in it even for a moment except that Jesus taught so clearly about it”.
I guess one just has to ask these questions: Why would Jesus preach on hell more than heaven? Why would He repeatedly warn people so strongly if it were not conscious punishment? Why did Jesus come if God has no wrath? What did He save us from?
Hell is eternal. Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (The same word in the original language is used for eternal).
Ruth...do yourself a favor and buy the book - the fire that consumes by Willaim Edward Fudge - you will learn that hell fire is a fire that annihilates the wicked for God is love...forever in the bible has many meanings according to context...for example, in Ex. 21:6 it says the slave shall serve his master forever but forever here only means his lifetime....in Jonah 1.17 it says he was in the belly of the whale 3 days but 2:6 says it was forever...so, the consequences of hell fire are eternal and not the fire...for the wages of sin is death and not life in a pit of flames Romans 6. 23.....unquenchable fire means the fire will not be put out until the object in the fire is consumed and burned up, see Jer.17: 27 and Mt. 3:12....it says the gates of Jerusalem would burn with unquenchable fire but they are not burning today, same with 3.12, the wicked will burn with unquenchable fire - that is until they are burned up...God is love and love does not torture men, women and children...the SDA church has the best view of scripture
If you are amazed by the fine tuned nature of the universe, one can only imagine how excellent a new heaven and new earth will be and in a new body. Our capacities and the new revelations will make for a place of worship and purpose that will be a thrill in an eternity with our Creator & Lord!
Beautiful interview. I love discussions like this where it’s ok to ask questions. I look forward to reading Lees book. May we all be courageous in sharing our faith in Jesus Christ to those who don’t him and have this peace.
We need to tread with caution, with those who claim to die and meet Christ, nothing in scripture collaborates this. I do believe we can be out of our body , however being in the presence of God and then return, not so much.
Remember, God is not Fair, He is JUST. There is a huge difference. So the torment is Justified no matter what it is. You bring up a lot of good points. Thank you.
No Christian believes that torture is justifiable under most circumstances some Christians don't believe it's justifiable under any circumstances so why it would be just for God to do it for eternity beggars belief. God is consistently referred to as just in the Old Testament and every example of punishment from Sodom and Gomorrah to the flood to the destruction of the Nations by the Israelites to The Exodus deaths the killing of the Israelites by snake bites etc etc are always about death not torture and the flood and Sodom and gamora are the biblical typologies used in the New Testament for final judgment. Read the whole of second Peter for example or Jude 7.
25:16 "God doesn't send people to Hell"
Jesus disagrees with you (Matt 25:41)
Lee is one of my favorite apologists and he gave such great encouragement to me when I saw his interview about the case for heaven . I have lost several people I love including a brother and close friend. They all were Christians so I grieve with hope but its still very hard to accept they are gone . That being said I know we will be reunited in heaven so thanks Alisa for making this with Lee. Your a lovely sister and Lee is a brilliant and real person and you both demonstrate the love of Jesus ...God bless u
Read a book called, 'The Great Controversy.'
LISTEN: Alisa, if you read Genesis 2:7 you will find that man is classified or described as a Soul - he does not have a soul....Peter says there were 8 souls saved in the ark, Luke says there were 276 souls in the ship with Paul, Acts 2 says 3000 souls were converted at Pentecost....there is no soul man is a soul- breath and body combined makes a lifeless body a soul...you are following the wrong people
Read one the Davids, David Bentley Hart and David Artman
just a thought on what hell is comprised of & Lee's comments on the use of metaphorical language to describe. I believe the Bible is talking about a literal fiery place of eternal doom. Eg. in Rev where devil is cast into lake of fire & brimstone. Jesus taught more about hell than anyone else in the Bible and he gave perhaps the most vivid illustration of what it is in the parable of the rich man & Lazarus, where the rich man was so tormented by the fire that he asked for water to cool his tongue. Finally, the word for hell in the Bible is Gehenna, which is the valley of hinnom in Jerusalem, speaking of a fiery place. All of these points towards a fiery place.
Maybe Alisa would care to comment on this
Amazing conversation. My husband also had a near death experience. Same thing, he saw the doctors from above. He saw hell. Called out to a Jesus and a hand larger than life lifted him out. It changed his life and converted him. Got him to Confession for sure.
EVERY NDE person sees the local majority God of his/her country. lol
Lol, typo. There’s only one Jesus, obviously.
@@GratiaPrima_ be careful. There are many Jesus entities, demonic entities masquerading as the true Jesus. Test the spirits, as the bible says.
@@theresetrietsch8329 yep. These visions are unbiblical and sound like tradition and Dantes inferno rather than scripture. The judgment is not yet so demons are not there torturing ppl bc it was made for Thier destruction/judgment so they r not there having fun torturing ppl. These stories are all based on misunderstanding of scripture and traditions/wrong teachings so I put no faith in them. Paul wasn't permitted to speak about what he saw or heard yet these ppl are allowed to report gruesome detail? Also it says they are In the PRESEnCe of God...not separation from God...so idk where that description came from. I trust the bible only. God bless you
@@sanjeevgig8918 Any comment on why Muslims in the middle east have visions of Jesus and convert to Christianity?
I love your ministry and was glad to hear your discussion on this topic. I also struggle with the doctrine of hell, but do believe the Bible speaks of an eternal conscious torment and not annihilationism. I had some confusion during the last part of this conversation when speaking of people who haven’t heard of the gospel, possibly being saved after death. My concern is if we believe people can be saved after death, why would we bother with evangelizing? Also, if people are in hell, wouldn’t their hatred (gnawing and nashing of teeth) towards God, keep them from wanting to go to heaven? I also believe that NDE’s are absolutely real, and some do point to Christ, but I’ve also heard and read of people who’ve had them and to them it confirms their prior false belief system or leads them to another false belief system such as Hinduism, Islam, and the vast majority I’ve heard of is Universalism/new age beliefs. So, although I agree that they’re real, I’m concerned that a focus on them can really cause people and new believers to be deceived. I believe in that state of consciousness the enemy can absolutely appear as an angel of light to cause major deception.
I think you should struggle with the concept of hell, it’s a terrible concept and one that doesn’t really help/serve anybody in a constructive manner, nor makes any sense even from what Christianity seems to want. Sure fear is a strong motivator, but I don’t think it’s wholistic way to get people to live with virtue. Seems more like a knee jerk response; like humanity acting like a adolescent when coming up with a story around how to get people to fall in line.
The Bible says it’s the love of God that leads us to repentance. We should never use hell as a scare tactic to lead people to salvation. Also,in true relationship with Jesus, fear should never be a motivator. The Bible says there is no fear in love because perfect love casts out all fear because fear has to do with torment. 1John 5:18. Christianity isn’t behavioral modification, it’s an inward change powered by the Holy Spirit, it’s not about rules because the Holy Spirit is guiding us into sanctification. I understand why you think hell is a terrible concept, like I said I also struggle with it, but I also know that God is absolutely perfect in his judgment and his ways are way beyond my understanding. On this earth we are in a spiritual battle and we have to decide who we will serve. I’m not sure what your faith is, but I pray you will come to know the deep love our Heavenly Father has for you! God Bless ❤️
@@lindsaygraham9115 - I hear your heart in this and I really understand what your saying, but I’d push back on a lot of what you’ve responded with, I guess to charitably put it, as a way to show a different perspective. You seem like a genuinely caring and thoughtful person, so I don’t intend just to badger you. That being said, take my comments as just you being the outlet of my own processing through my journey out of faith. I’m gathering I won’t convince you much by any of my points. In my judgment, I really think religious biases are some of the hardest ones to challenge, especially if one is deeply entrenched in either a really amazing community or a toxic one. Not making any claims of your specific situation though.
First, you stated “it’s the love of God is what leads to repentance”. If you mean by repentance in a theological sense, then fine, the Bible solves a theological problem with a theological solution. But if you mean by what method do we turn from wrong doings and make amends, I don’t think love (especially transferred from someone else [god]) at best, fully explains how this works. Think about a time you’ve done wrong to someone; sure maybe it’s a loving relationship that is broken, but fear, sadness and regret adds also to why one turns around and chooses to right that relationship. To say that god is what leads us to repentance, is to in turn, kinda say that he enjoys leading people to feeling all those negative feelings and this is how he loves. I get tough love, but I don’t think the way this plays out for a lot of situations actually turns out well and many a people end up being forever riddled with guilt and shame. I’ll touch on how “being healed out of this” with the Holy Spirit doesn’t quite work either.
Ok, that was just one sentence, hope you can hang with me here…
I would certainly agree that using hell, especially when defined as “eternal conscious torment“ is a terrible way to tell people about Jesus. But it is part of the conversation/conversion unfortunately. Both Alisa and Lee spoke to this in the video; you can’t skirt around the topic of hell. It’s part of the worldview and however one explains it, hell needs to be in there. It’s an extremely frightful idea which would really beg the question of why the heck would we need such a thing? Given limitless options of setting up a universe. I could think of much better options, but again, this touches on a point I hopefully will get to later.
And I get the verse that says perfect love casts out all fear, but unfortunately I think most people do not experience this. I think you could easily demonstrate the a lot of Christians struggle, fear, suppress discomfort of either thinking about hell in regards to people outside of the faith or, if they’re really “in” and instead, are they headed to hell because of some unforgivable sin? A perfect loving god, through this Holy Spirit should, it seems, to be able do a much better job of loving people through this. As a side note - this is really my really big glaring issue with Christianity these days (it’s different aspects in other seasons). How can we appeal to the Holy Spirit as the main guiding force for the believer given:
It seems to tell people wrong things
It tells people contradictory things
It doesn’t provide a specific method of discernment / cannot be sure if it’s the HS or just your own thoughts.
Well-meaning, “spirit filled”, well studied communities of faith all come to vastly different conclusions on who god is, how he works and what he “requires” of us. They can’t all be right, yet they all have access to a being described as being capable and more than willing to set the record straight. And yet it’s either silence, indifference or capriciousness that spirit is allowing Christianity to only further be fractured.
Ok this is getting long, I’ll end with this last point regarding “God’s perfect judgment”. To say that, you concede your own understanding and to give god the ability to define judgement, is to then forfeit and ability to know good or bad. You could spend decades thinking you were honestly serving Jesus; experiencing and doing good only to find that you never were a Christian and all those deeds led to nothing, no fruit, and end up in whatever version of hell that awaits. This seems to be my case (though I’m fairly comfortable saying that no afterlife is probably awaiting me). If you say god understands more, than any situation could be just his way of doing what he wants to do and that must be good. You’re forced to make everything fine and just a “sanctification” lesson. That’s certainly one way to see the world, I’m just not convinced it’s the way we actually operate or most helpful to accept reality.
I knew the deep love of the father, I get it, I lived it. But when I really pulled back the curtain, I found the “person” there was my community, my thoughts and meditations, my upbringing and biases. Once I allowed to push into doubt rather than assuage it with some Bible verse or pastor/friend giving me counsel or reading yet another book, I found peace and rest in realizing my faith no longer needed to be held.
Hope you can receive this with understanding and wonder.
“If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin” John 15:22
Jesus presents a very important principle here: a person is not responsible for what they could not have known. The implication is that it is possible to have a salvific link with Christ without knowing him formally.
Religions that have as tenants of their respective faiths the rejection of Jesus and his Church have no power to save anyone. It is “the truth that makes us free”, not falsehood.
Anyone who is ever saved is not saved by his or her false religious beliefs (i.e. Judaism that rejects Christ, Islam that denies Jesus is the Son of God, etc.); rather, they can be saved in spite of them.
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation”
Invincible ignorance, however, is not the only condition for salvation.
Such individuals must “seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience”
The bottom line is: the straight and narrow road that leads to heaven is not an easy road to begin with, even for those gifted with the fullness of truth.
We must remember that we are not the judges of salvation. God is the sole and final judge. We do not know who is truly “invincibly ignorant” and who is not.
@@jotunman627 - I understand where you are coming from for the most part, but now as a former professing Christian, it's honestly surprisingly odd how much things I used to hold no longer make sense, such as this way of craftfully setting up either a win-win or lose lose situation. Maybe I'll just ask this:
If you were to "share the gospel" with someone, have you put them in the situation where they are now responsible for that information or is not "knowledge" a bit more involved? For me, you can tell me all about god, I can read the Bible about god, and read books about god, but unless I have a method to actually interact with god, I'm not sure it's my ignorance, its a failure of communication, one that should not seem to be hindered by a maximally powerful and loving deity. So one is left to make it all my fault, even with pleads, tears, open hands, prayers (mine & others interceding). Sure you can say, stay the course. It's easy to utter when belief is already there. I've just grown tired of a one sided relationship. Every single other relationship I have has at its stupidly basic level, a definable and demonstrable existence to it.
This has swayed a bit off topic, but honestly I wasn't sure you were addressing me in your comment anyway.
The Bible teaches there is a literal Hell and Lake of Fire. Do not end up there without Jesus Christ.
The most famous verse in the Bible is one of the many verses that support belief in conditional immortality (annihilationism):
ESV John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
God so loved you that he gave his only begotten son for some reason even though he could've just changed the rules and let you into heaven without torturing his son.
@@sanjeevgig8918 a thrice holy God cannot “change the rules” as it would violate his character & nature. He is infinitely holy & perfect and we have all sinned against him. Just as a murderer justly deserves a life sentence (actually they deserve the death penalty) so a finite human deserves punishment for a far greater crime - sinning against the creator. And yet, because God is love; he sent his son - fully God & fully man - to live the sinless life we cannot live & take the punishment we deserve. Instead of giving us what we deserve he himself took it all.
It’s a beautiful thing but the world hates it. It’s foolishness to those who are perishing. Repent & believe my friend. There isn’t much time left.
@@sarahd5341 Jesus/Yahweh commanded babies be drowned in the flood, the Amalekites babies be killed, the Canaanite babies be killed, the Midianites boy babies be killed, the Egyptian firstborn babies be killed and the babies in Sodom and Gomorrah be killed. But, he is love now ?? When did he change ?? But, you said he can't change the rules ??
Exactly. Eternal life is for the saved alone.
@@sanjeevgig8918 You’re leaving sin out of the equation. The human nature is fallen and wicked from conception.
About Hell.
I'm reasonably confident, even though i wasn't around in 1880, that preachers then, would have talked more than today about "the fires of Hell". But today, most of the fire has burned out, so to speak,and we hear Hell described as "eternal separation from God."
SO! Somehow, we've gone from, "fire" where the rich man (in Luke?) says .."for I am tormented in this flame"...to...some sort of "cosmic Isolation-closet" in how we view Hell. We've gone from burning to a giant "time-out". Who started this? In what year?
You won't get an exact date. Probably happened slowly over time.
@@Strongtower No doubt it *grew* over time. But it had to start somewhere. With Billy Graham? No? Before Billy Graham got started, did Billy SUNDAY preach that? Charles Finney? Charles Spurgeon? from some Notes in the Scofield reference bible? It amazes me how so few in the churches try to track down these sorts of things.. . .maybe I'll look deeper myself, but I've probably got another dozen questions and there's only so many hrs in a day. :) I have read the whole New testament, 3 times in 3 different translations. Really grateful for the good work that Alisa Childers is doing with her UA-cam videos.
Great video. My mom had a near death experience when she was in her early twenties. She floated out of her body and saw blood in a tube being drained out of her body. She saw medical personal rush in her hospital room and start performing resuscitation. Through all of this my mom said she had no fear and felt nothing but warmth and deeply loved. She said through the years (40 years later) whenever things get tough she thinks back to that moment and it comforts her. She is a believer and knows eternity with the Lord awaits.
I'm not sure why hell has to be eternal and torture. Even Hitler in hell deserves trillions of years for his murders? When does the punishment equal the offense?
Amazing conversation! It is definitely something many struggle with especially when we know people who have died without accepting Christ as Savior. We need to be digging deeper into the goodness of God!
I do believe the true God will be revealed to us... for every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.