#### Links from the Video #### www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/18z4yrw/i_hate_to_say_it_but_the_ones_wary_about_buzz/ civitai.com/articles/3624/introducing-civitai-clubs civitai.com/articles/3636
Didn't huggingface remove lots of model repositories recently? (I might be very wrong) besides, It's very very hard and not as user friendly as civitai to search for files, models, lora's etc... edit: I am wrong, it was about llm's iirc.
There is a can of worms here... as soon as people who train new models/LORAs/embeddings start charging $$$ for their output, then the creators who made the INPUT for their training are also going to start asking for money for their works (which now are generally free because everyone realizes that not much money is changing hands for AI yet aside from hosting time.)
I agree with your viewpoint that the widespread adoption of this approach by all developers of open-source projects could potentially lead to a decline in the open-source movement. While these developers initially created their projects with specific terms in mind, it is commendable that they desire to contribute. However, they must identify alternative methods of funding that do not compromise the main principles of open-source.
Just because it's a bit more complex to figure out how to reward people for their work does not mean they don't deserve any reward what so ever. Also open source doesn't mean it's free. There are plenty of examples where projects are commercial and open-source like redhat Linux or MongoDB
@@Kombo-Chapfika absolutely. As long as the tools stay open and free, we gotta figure out a way for people to get paid for their labour (all the way up to the og artists).
@@OlivioSarikas We are using Open Source media. You can set up a "donate" button, but if you think you can use models built without the authorization of the actual authors, Loras created without owning the original media, and then *ask money* to me, you really are out of your mind.
This is a scam and follows the narrative ai has done from day one. So you make a model... and put hours into it... someone else merges your model and puts it behind a paywall?
The reason AI has been advancing so fast in the past year is because of free and open source access. CivitAI, being a leader in this space resorting to money-grabbing is just going to tax it up and create friction. Creators should just abandon them and jump ship. It's not like you can't post your stuff on other hosting platforms and skip the middle man. Even posting straight on HF is an option.
I would prefer the Nexus Mods payment model. If you don't take out a monthly subscription, you can only download at a certain download speed but still have access to everything. Those who pay get the full speed. This covers all these server costs.
There are sites that already does this and it practically makes them unusable. Trying to download an SDXL model on any of those sites is impossible without paying a subscription. Not only does it take HOURS just to download one model, it will time out somewhere along the line and if you arent present right there within seconds to retry then you have to start from the beginning. Mods are one thing, but giants model minimum 2gb to 10gb is torture just to get single models. It will be the end for me and civitai if that same structure is added.
So Civitai should focus on asking people to pay for an actual professional services. Like validated models that have been checked for viruses across multiple operating systems, Proffessional manuals, render time, Forensically analyzed models that have a plagiarism index. Staggered release model contracts with creators. A base level of generation credits for mobile creatives. They should maintain a very vibrant opensource community where people can still get models and share work. But the open source side of the technology is not mature enough for the type of monetization scheme they are hedging for. I fully support patreon type of transparency. There are plenty of ways to make money with Opensource platforms without killing the underlying Opensource community that generate the content
I rather pay creators through patreon or kofi than to Civitai or Tensor Flow. If civitai were smart, they would create a their own UI for Stable Diffusion first, in a way that would make the usage of workflows and models selection super easy for it's users. Asking for money is not the right thing at the moment.
it was already fishy when they tried to hide the download button for models with a big "Create" button😅. I understand that it might cost money to maintain their website, the community models provided on it is stunning .... but I don‘t see the purpose of paying for commercial use for something reaped-off real artists arts .... I think the next part will be real artists going against civitai for selling unauthorized materials from their original works and BOUM 🎉 ... finished. Civitai should be careful on this part, lawers and laws can bring very big problems 😢
Whats to stop me from downloading 2 current models merge them. Rename and claim "i made this" and try to license it? I feel like this needed a little more thought before rolling it out.
I've seen multiple model "creators" shoving every one of their models (which are actually merges of other people's work) behind the paywall - often with each one being a different club (to rake in more Buzz, because you can't get access to Model X and Y without paying to join both clubs.) This, despite the very intro of clubs saying that this is explicitly what they should not be doing. The whole thing was rushed out with a "We've got to cash in now" attitude across the board, without any apparent oversight or community standards.
They received some funding from Andreesen Horowitz recently, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were pressured into monetizing stuff sooner than later. If that's not where the pressure came from, I'd wager that the management just got really greedy. I would too if I were in a position of monopoly. We as a community just need to support other competing platforms and create some proper competition, then everyone benefits (except CivitAI, but they deserve it).
If they want to get paid for the models, then they should definitely pay all those people/artists whose works and images were used in the model for training.
yeah already feared something like this would happen at some point, civitai first trying to own a large portion of "a potential market" to then introduce sketchy monitization schemes. its high time for model piracy to become a thing until some group does the "offering something better then piracy"
You are looking at it wrong. Currently they make nothing and are hosting petabytes of models... They are currently completely unsustainable. If they don't find a way to make money soon, there will be no citivai in less than a year.
The idea of getting something "early" is absurd. You are paying to get it when its done, everyone else is getting it later. This "early" BS started with patreon and similar platforms, before that, they used to upload their content on respective platforms when it was done . I'm all for supporting the talents for their hard work, but when they start deceiving us with BS terminology isn't something i'm going to support.
It won't work either. People will just pirate the "early" or "private" releases, like with OnlyFans and Patreon exclusive content. Considering how quickly models and LoRAs become obsolete in this space, monetizing it this hard is pure cash grabbing, there's no justification. You'll probably hear over and over how much compute power went into it blah blah blah. Not all work deserves this level of aggressive monetization. The people who are doing the work are already compensated, many are already living off of their patrons. This is pure greed from CivitAI, for the purpose of cashing in their monopoly in this space. People should just find alternatives and help competitors, CivitAI deserves to lose now.
same as with video games, preordering and buying 'higher tiers' of a game to get x days of 'early access'. it's just people who don't pay more just have to wait extra time. bs practices. it's a fault in the whole system, that companies always have to make more and more and more money, while the customer usually gets even less in terms of quantity and/or quality.
Looks like my previous comment about CivitAI using their social media shills to spin for them in this case got deleted. Have we touched on a nerve? Is Olivio trying to protect CivitAI's image by censoring criticism now?
i just wish nsfw content regardless wasn't as pidgeon holed as it is in the modern world, to the point that its mostly considered a shady aspect of life.
True. However, NSFW and the objectification/sexualization of women is what all technology has benefited from over the last 100+ years. Without it, no tech has rapidly advanced or innovated in a short period of time. Sad but unfortunate fact. Many tests have been done over the years, especially in advertising and marketing, and an attractive woman gets more than double the traction every single test. This has been tested recently even with UA-cam thumbnails. (hint hint)
@@lefourbe5596 absolutely 100% agree! Celebrating the beauty of females v. Glorifying death and destruction in war and gaming, no contest what should be everyone’s preference.
You should not put anything behind a pay wall if all your work is based on a free and open sourced model that you didn't made. specially a woke site like civit that removes whatever it want whenever they want from the platform with no support in the horizon.
CivitAI has been coasting on venture capital, last injection was from Andreessen Horowitz. Monetizing the work of model makers and lora creators is disgusting, its carpet bagging much like the crypto era was
As to your last point I totally agree! Time and skillsets matter and as a professional illustrator it is essential to give credit where it’s due. I have learned a massive amount of information from people sharing their findings. Time is money and we should be respectful in understanding the difference from playing and learning to generate revenue. Right now I’m generating humans in automatic 1111 which is mind boggling. I’ve learned so much that hires fix isn’t even needed compared to when I first started. If I use high resolution or control net at this point it’s just hacking the Ai system. What I can also say is thanks to you sharing your knowledge you expanded mine to another level. I hope to start making some videos on my findings.
You put a video together which showed a Comfy UI workflow that used Turbo and then you could change one line and get a high res improved output from it. Plus you then did an incredible video on how to actually use everything and even had some trouble shooting. I was like: this is free???? That had tremendous value and I would certainly expect content at that level to have a paywall mechanic to support you. Anyhoo, so I was like, this is a great way to get into ComfyUI so I tried getting it set up. Some of the boxes were red, but you had helpfully provided a solution for that which was an auto-update manager, when I tried to run that, the workflow exploded on my pc and comfy UI doesnt work anymore. So as excited as I was to get into ComfyUI and greatful to you for putting that video together, and as exciting as the value proposition of getting turbo working on my pc... that was the end of my journey with Comfy UI. If I had PAID for that, maybe I would have tried reaching out to you to get some tech support, which would probably be the WORST part of the stuff you are doing and most creators wouldnt want any of that.
A better implementation would be that if the creators have a minimally "large" community, give them the option to create a CLUB tab. And let the creator be the one who manages how to create and distribute their content, and that CivitAI only limits itself to giving the platform and a way for the creator to earn profits, perhaps, taking 10% or 15% of the total.
@@juanchogarzonmiranda open source doesn't mean a model is free. It means it is freely iterated upon by the community. Nothing is compromised. People deserve to be paid for the work they do.
@@leegregory5617 then pay and keep paying, it's a free market. After all, Civitai is in a free market world and it is not the only page. There is much room for free exchange and development.
This is a way for CivitAI to pay themselves under the guise of helping creators. I'm happy to find ways to pay CivitAI that don't involve paywalling and incentivizing creators to monetize.
Download limits, upload limits for image posters. I hope this is the "cutting cost" type of innovation and not the "corporatization" type of expansion. The grassroots side of this stuff is getting murkier by the day
And then what are you gonna do with the models? Distribute P2P? You guys have no idea how expensive an operation like this is, they were burning through money up till now with how large models are. Bandwidth costs money and so does storage. Especially fast and redundant delivery. @@VioFax
But hosting all these big files is not free. This platform loses a lot of money every day, they need something to finance all this, even without profit.
@@blizado3675your take is destructive for open source standpoint. You could Say there is better options. (for example blender who live on donation but civitAi is WAY more expensive) Ultimately they will have to "change" the plateform to maintain this insane service. (Even if it's Bad for the user...) It's either that or shut down the plateform.
@@blizado3675 There are tons of sites running image generation for profit. They all suffer from limited access to models and loras. Civit has them all. If they spent their time making that work well and integrate nicely and marketed it a little bit they'd make more than enough to pay for the site and then some.
They have to pay for the bandwidth somehow... This is honestly the least greediest way of doing it... They could just straight up charge a bandwidth cost You have to pay $20 a month for a hundred gigs... Currently their business model is sinking them into the ground they ain't going to be around longer than a year... I seen too many of these types of websites sharing much smaller files that have gone under because they had a "free always" model... Or would you rather they start selling ad space to pay for the bandwidth? You click the download link get sent to another page You have to watch 30 seconds of an ad just to download the model... No thanks.
There already is, it's called Patreon. CivitAI just doesn't like how another platform is taxing it, they want to get the tax instead. The result of forcing an exchange through "buzz" is they get a ton of liquid cash right away (literally printing money). They either know people have no choice and will be coerced, or they are desperate and were pressured by their investors to cash in now rather than later, or both. Bad optics all around and bad for actual creators, who now have more of their earnings taken by a third party.
Unless you're training images that you have rights to, using a base that you have rights to, you're going to run into copyright. As soon as you attach money in any form to anything that ties back to an original imageset based on images scraped from the internet, you're going to have copyright issues.
@@jeffscott3186 which is genuinely why Emad's view of everyone owning AI is the future. Oil painters, kitchen designers, glassblowers... everyone can have models that can represent their work as a proofing tool for clients, or as a way to spread their art in new multi-modal ways. You are right, because now, its just open season for only the niche of people who know how to do this - us
That wasn't really their fault, thier generation provider suddenly blocked all NSFW content (probably 75% of all generation's) on fears of people generating CP
Did yo know, you can earn those Buzz just for liking images? Why everyone thinks all AI stuff is granted for free? You know how much electricity bill graphic card can generate from model training?
Great explanation like usual and as a CIVITAI Supporter ($5/month) I understand the need to support your favorite creators and creator sites so they can keep giving us all the great content we crave. I also do the same with Huggingface and a couple of other sites that I love for AI. But I understand my financial situation might be different from others and not everyone can do the same. Some sort of balance has to be achieved and hopefully, Civitai will listen to the "rage" and learn and adapt from it. Olivio you are the man and i need to go find your Patreon right away. Cheers!
Civit is a great resource for models and learning resource. They have to pay people to create, maintain and serve the site and its files. These models are not small and their monthly services fees must be substantial. All that said, the models, which bring people in, having training data that has not been licensed in the first place. Even if a model is using proprietary images but being trained on top of a base model that was trained on unlicensed datasets there is still a problem. Talking about “paying” model creators for their work should ALSO begin a conversation about the original art, photos, video, etc that were collected into training datasets for training and without the consent of the creator. Something “found” on the internet was created and put there by people that also have rights.
soon or later something needs happen I feel like, hosting those models and managing such website costs lost of money, they are not sponsored by anything, like not google or not HF etc. the trick is not getting greedy, support platform as a requirement, support creators as a passthrough.
I did upload workflows and modified models before and after comming back after some time I discovered that I got buzz for it. I don't know if someone actually paid for my stuff, but I think this currency can just circulate on civit AI between creeators without generating any more money that has to be paid which means there are no taxes? It is kinda weird.
It's not clear what kind of content will be presented. Example everyone mixes checkpoints collected from trained models. And by mixing, they don't even mention which training model was used. So now they will ask money for content which is free 😂
Ok, fair point. I agree with much of what you said, but will AI creators pay to the creators of the images they used to train AI models? I don't think so.
Think about it, people give you money to buy bits and pieces and parts of your life, can you use this money to buy your own life back? no. the meaning of life is to share what you find.
I definitely agree it has to be built out more if there is a pay wall. Communities should technically be free unless they have some benefit for support by products etc
The laws, regulations and bookkeeping are substantially different when using a custom currency (ie BUZZ) vs actual fiat. That basically why the majority of websites and games do it this way.
Actually the majority of games do it that way, because you loose track of how much you spend when you have to convert it into a different currency that is almost never a 1:1 conversion of your currency. In addition once you bought the virtual currency in your mind you already spend the money, so you are more liktely to spend it. Most donation pages work with real money, like Patreon, Buymeacoffee or other pages like that
@@OlivioSarikas Oh I know and understand. I wasn't so much referring to gotcha games as to websites/games you transact between other people/users. - It's why we do it too. When fictional tokens are transferred between one user to another, there is no financial transaction. If we would use actual fiat currency, then every transaction would be subject to taxes. - When paying out users from tokens to real fiat, we also can tax deduct it as expense instead of salary or payment for a service, which instead would add taxes to it. Can't really mention what kind of work I do on UA-cam, their censor algo removes it. It also requires certain licenses to allow fiat transactions between users (ie Patreon) that most websites don't have. And these are different for every country you want to be operational. When a user buys tokens with us, this is a normal sale subject to normal sales taxes. When this user then uses tokens to make a purchase from another user, we simply deduct from one account and add to the other account, without having to register this as a financial transaction. When a user want's to cash out, they send us a B2B invoice, which for us becomes an operational expense, and is tax deductible.
I think it's would be fair to start training with the artist own accord for commercial licence (if artist there is). Sell the model with a bigger part going to the artist the other two small would be CivitAi and the model maker. the AI model would be analysed by the og artist for quality control and he would make the price for individual download (that would do the premium price). And let's be real. From experience i know that a single AI model won't match the original work in fidelity. if there is human touch in the process it would turn generic. This is why i advicate traditionnal artist to use their own custom AI model if that make their work faster. It can sometimes make their work better without much sacrifice of their style.
Tbht the first introduction of "Buzz" or any other currency or point for this kind of website and any other website never sit well for me, too much BS monetization and when something like CivitAI grabs any model from the community and said "You can generate here instead, from any model you want and we can get the money instead of the creator of the model and since it's free model and we pay for the cloud etc etc" already sus move tbh.
You don't pay for cloud storage... They host these models on their own site, and they transfer petabytes of bandwidth every month... They have to start making money soon or they're going to go under
It's a legal grey area to ask money for a model you created from artwork you "borrowed". I'm sure everyone asks permission from the artist and if they don't give permission, I'm sure that person respects the artists wishes and moves on instead of just going to any easily accessible site and downloading all that artists Patreon catalog of images to train the model on. Lol This is why since everything is a legal issue with how things are trained, nobody should own anything and it should all be free. I agree people should setup some optional donation, but it's optional for a reason.
Yea.. im longing for the day USA+EU make it illegal to have digital currencies on digital games or websites. They serve no utility whatsoever outside of using psychology against the user.
Civit should have monetised from the start,users should be able to monetize their models and Loras (IF there is no copyright infringment) pricing could be dirt cheap. But Loras and models are still work. No one entitled to anyone's work for free. If you get free stuff that's privilege not a right. Not unreasonable to pay a couple of bucks for a lora.
I don't know on the user side how much things should be... But I 100% agree that the website needs a way to sustain the thousands and thousands and thousands of terabytes of data that it's using up in bandwidth... There's even extensions that you don't have to even download the model You can have it streamed every time you use it directly from them... There's just no sustainability in that.
you are ready to support the creators of lore with money, but do these creators have the rights to the content that they stole from the artists? you will support the thieves, all the data for your models was collected illegally and while it was free it was difficult to attack to it
oh i see, how many artists recreate scenes from films with pixel precision how does midjorney do it? Apparently plagiarism is part of learning, right?@@tomolson6169
Civitai is a great platform and they deserve money for their services, period. So does the creators on the platform that provide us with quality stuff. I just wish Civitai did it a bit better like patreon tiers to support them and the models we heart or something with a split share of some sort
Yeah, they deserve it. But should belong to public decide how and when to give them money, not being shoved behind a paywall or buying a fishy virtual coin. But no problem, knowledge belongs to everyone and other "Civitais" will eventually come.
@@_l3m35_ i hope that will be the case, as theres also the possibility that no one else might dare to start up another civitai out of fear for having to deal with too many IP lawsuits, and then we'll end up in a situation where the alternatives are only in the most shady places, while civitAI gets taken over by suits who are eager for a race to the bottom in the name of their own profit.
They should keep things free to maintain traffic and avoid the legal liability that comes with the space and partner with maybe a cloud computing provider to provide gpu resources for generating and model training maybe even building the ui into the website itself. That's a win win. Far more profitable.
Someone still has to pay for the GPUs and hosting. Taking into account their monthly traffic it's dozens of thousands only for the hosting. I can't even imagine how expensive the image generation is.
I absolutely have no problem paying for premium content & models, as long as the creators are compensated appropriately. Right now I have my doubts as to CivitAI compensating creators fairly, but time will tell.
After the community more or less collectively decided that the theft of actual artist's hard work to make the training data was okay (because reasons) I fail to see how anybody can expect to charge for their "creations" after that point. Sure a site like CivitAI can try to charge something to recoup hosting costs, but I think they'll learn the hard way that the community will likely decide they don't want to pay for that either if there is literally any other place to go for free.
@@sperzieb00n You can claim something is not stolen if you base it on public domain and collective ownership. Yet, if you do that, you can't ask for money that comes out of it. Imagine somebody taking "Jenna Ortega" pictures to create a Lora, because "freedom", so you don't pay for anything, yet you ask money to other people to use your Lora. I don't know how dumb somebody has to be to even considering it.
@@ChristianIceHmmm... that's the hard debate. * Journalists are also paid for summarizing books they read and didn't buy but lend in the library or borrowed from a friend. * Street artist are copying famous artwork on the pavement with chalk every day, minute? * People are singing famous songs everywhere in the world pretty close to the original without having even paid for the radio station where they heard that song. And _most_ models are not able to really recreate an image 99% identical to the original. So as long as they are not able to do that, the models should be legally safe. - It's another case with the new MidJourney 6 as an image model or the ChatGTP service, which obviously in fact stored whole articles or maybe even whole books? - And indeed, it does make sense, if people ask eg about the constitution of the USA to have the whole original text saved. But imho it's not legal to also store whole copyrighted content and serve it again through an own service.
@@sperzieb00n nah I didn't say that, what I said is that they don't seem to care about using stolen art, and furthermore some people are advocating supporting the creators of these models (which are using the stolen art that they have no license to use) when they wouldn't consider supporting the artists who seem to be swept under the rug by the community
Yes totally agree, if they want to cover their running costs and some labour for maintaining their servers / systems. Imagine being subscribed to so many "clubs", spending thousands of dollars a month just to get access to resources....
I'm just starting to dip my toe into this puddle, so right now it's just for fun and seeing what I can do...but if I were to ever really get into it, then I would have no objections to a subscription service for a set monthly price as long as: 1) everything is included (no "premium" stuff behind an additional paywall), 2) no throttling of bandwidth. The issue is that putting everything behind a paywall will drive away people like me who are just now getting into the AI scene, which could stifle creativity over the long run.
While that sounds good in theory such a private club would likely need to be registered as a ngo publicly to have this effect. Even then most would not fall within these regulations and still need to pay taxes in their donations, like I do with my patreon
As far as I can tell, most of the internet community who follow content, in whatever field or interest, do indeed feel entitled to that content for free. It doesn't seem to matter whether that content is available without charge on platforms such as YT or is marketed copyrighted content such as films or books. On the other hand, I, personally, feel no obligation to send money to content creators simply because they have produced content. I support individual content creators only after I have judged their content to be useful or informative to a sufficient degree that I would want to see them continue
I love your work. I have faith in opinion. I'm trying to make a ai model. I have very little knowledge of technology. I need somebody to build me one which is the complete version of course I will pay.
The point you make near the end if your video is an echo of the things content creators were saying when they were being sampled to train the models. It's also an echo of the argument of music, tv and film creators from the days of Napster until today. Where is their compensation in all this? If Civit goes the route of ads, they can restrict access if an ad-blocker is detected. And, as far as paid access to the site, I use another site for 3D content that drastically slows down the amount of content you can download unless you purchase a subscription. So, you don't NEED a subscription, but it sure helps.
The popularity of generative AI (again) exposes the problems with some of our systems of society in general, like how weak the public domain is, or how money is basically speech if one just finds the right lawyers to legally intimidate (it only took warner a few years to intimidate spotify into paying them most of the profit, at the cost of all the medium and small artists on the platform, because spotify was supposedly a threat to potential profits of warner).
imagine github and hugging face and discord start charging. if the people that are uploading and making them money then they need to pay them. or do like youtube does to make money put more ads all over the place
The real money for AI is the first person/company that can create an imageset with six billion images that they own/have rights to. I don't know who would have the access, money, or resources...wait...****....Adobe. Great AI is going to be handed out for $39.95 per month.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for the creators to get paid for their work and efforts, including the artists whose works have been used for training a product with a commercial license
sharing is caring, so donation always works and win for the long run. it started for free, for fun, why destroying it? what if people who invented spoon and fork says you cant eat with spoon and fork unless you pay me? everything is so commercialized that you even have to pay for breathing. well just go ahead, im sure some rational asian or russian will come out with something more sane and human. 5 or 10 years ahead we probably watching video called : "the downfall of civitAI and the Ai community" we try to fight the establishment and world economic forum but in the end still being use and abuse, controlled by big bugs. nerds becoming millioners, social media superstar, but in the end just a pwn for gov, CIA, and big corps. no hope for humanity.
If they don't come up with a way to pay for the petabytes of monthly bandwidth soon, the downfall of citivai will be sooner than 5 years probably less than 1... They have to start making money somehow....
@@omegablast2002 thats not true. google, facebook, instagram, tiktok, etc. all started from free service and they are still free service mostly. ads revenues is huge, unless civitAi wanna to compete with elon musk, there is no need to change anything as it is. if bandwidth is the main reason for this, civitAi already close in 6 month since it 1st release. but it didnt happened. it growing bigger and bigger, its getting more famous. like all instagram models and endorser, they are getting greedy and greedy. its not bandwidth money that going to destroy any service, but greedy. like i said, sharing is caring. all men knew this. this is why men shares their success, life, status, and power with women. men easily trap to becoming a simp because we all have the desires to shares. same with the people who shares stable diffusion to the world for free. its a shame now a website want to capitulate the Ai liberation and turn it into pay something or else you dont get it services. when everybody exploiting Ai for money, its the end of Ai development. 1 more, you cant argue about bandwidth because linux is free. python is free. do you think no body downloading linux and python? LOL stop being a simp to those tech company.
I disagree. Open-source means open-source. When you commit to working on an open-source project, you are doing so with the knowledge that you wont be paid for it. "made freely available" - from the definition of open-source. I'm all for adding a donation button or what ever, but there are people out there that can't afford to *purchase* models that might not be right for them. No one cared about midjourney and others being paid generators because no one had to download them and run them locally and we had CivitAI as the free alternative. It's exactly what Bethesda did with Skyrim and FO4 with paid mods. You take something that was free and charge for it and people are going to be angry. One more thing; I guarantee you that not a single model on CivitAI is created with 100% non-stolen artwork. If I stole one of your videos, took 10 seconds of it and sold it for 99 cents, you wouldn't be ok with it. So how are we going to let CivitAI allow people to charge us for models trained on ill gotten source material?
I love the idea of paying our best ai builders and i want civit to ear a portion of that to act as a platform for this kind of thing. I just dont know how thats done
I'd pay for models that are equal or better then mid journey and Dall-e but a lot of the top models are fantastic but aren't perfect as a all around image generator. If mid journey charges a one time fee to download their checkpoint I'd happily obliged. I'm still happy with the open source models I currently have because it was all free despite a few headaches installing Auto1111.
#### Links from the Video ####
www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/18z4yrw/i_hate_to_say_it_but_the_ones_wary_about_buzz/
civitai.com/articles/3624/introducing-civitai-clubs
civitai.com/articles/3636
Once Huggingface add gallery for LoRA’s and weights, civitai will be abandoned in a week or two.
Agree 👍👍
can't wait for that day
Didn't huggingface remove lots of model repositories recently? (I might be very wrong) besides, It's very very hard and not as user friendly as civitai to search for files, models, lora's etc...
edit: I am wrong, it was about llm's iirc.
There is a can of worms here... as soon as people who train new models/LORAs/embeddings start charging $$$ for their output, then the creators who made the INPUT for their training are also going to start asking for money for their works (which now are generally free because everyone realizes that not much money is changing hands for AI yet aside from hosting time.)
I agree with your viewpoint that the widespread adoption of this approach by all developers of open-source projects could potentially lead to a decline in the open-source movement. While these developers initially created their projects with specific terms in mind, it is commendable that they desire to contribute. However, they must identify alternative methods of funding that do not compromise the main principles of open-source.
Just because it's a bit more complex to figure out how to reward people for their work does not mean they don't deserve any reward what so ever. Also open source doesn't mean it's free. There are plenty of examples where projects are commercial and open-source like redhat Linux or MongoDB
@@Kombo-Chapfika absolutely. As long as the tools stay open and free, we gotta figure out a way for people to get paid for their labour (all the way up to the og artists).
yep, thank the worst aspects of capitalism for providing the incentive to do stuff like that... sigh
@@OlivioSarikas
We are using Open Source media.
You can set up a "donate" button, but if you think you can use models built without the authorization of the actual authors, Loras created without owning the original media, and then *ask money* to me, you really are out of your mind.
This is a scam and follows the narrative ai has done from day one. So you make a model... and put hours into it... someone else merges your model and puts it behind a paywall?
The reason AI has been advancing so fast in the past year is because of free and open source access. CivitAI, being a leader in this space resorting to money-grabbing is just going to tax it up and create friction. Creators should just abandon them and jump ship. It's not like you can't post your stuff on other hosting platforms and skip the middle man. Even posting straight on HF is an option.
I would prefer the Nexus Mods payment model. If you don't take out a monthly subscription, you can only download at a certain download speed but still have access to everything. Those who pay get the full speed. This covers all these server costs.
Actually not a bad idea
There are sites that already does this and it practically makes them unusable. Trying to download an SDXL model on any of those sites is impossible without paying a subscription. Not only does it take HOURS just to download one model, it will time out somewhere along the line and if you arent present right there within seconds to retry then you have to start from the beginning. Mods are one thing, but giants model minimum 2gb to 10gb is torture just to get single models. It will be the end for me and civitai if that same structure is added.
@@kernsanders3973 You didn't need to make it THAT slow that you risk time outs. You could limited it to 10MBit for example.
@@kernsanders3973The solution is to pay a subscription and support the service’s continued existence. Not that hard.
@@kernsanders3973 Agree 😅😅😓
So Civitai should focus on asking people to pay for an actual professional services. Like validated models that have been checked for viruses across multiple operating systems, Proffessional manuals, render time, Forensically analyzed models that have a plagiarism index. Staggered release model contracts with creators. A base level of generation credits for mobile creatives. They should maintain a very vibrant opensource community where people can still get models and share work. But the open source side of the technology is not mature enough for the type of monetization scheme they are hedging for. I fully support patreon type of transparency.
There are plenty of ways to make money with Opensource platforms without killing the underlying Opensource community that generate the content
I rather pay creators through patreon or kofi than to Civitai or Tensor Flow. If civitai were smart, they would create a their own UI for Stable Diffusion first, in a way that would make the usage of workflows and models selection super easy for it's users. Asking for money is not the right thing at the moment.
They do have their own webui.
They got to pay for all those petabytes of bandwidth somehow... It's actually quite a fair model.
it goes like this, boss looks at compitition, see's them charge $ for BS and says "hey, I can charge for BS too." and here we are.
You know that hosting isn't free right? You know thier current system is unsustainable right?
I support by paying month $5 subscription, but this is ridiculous.
it was already fishy when they tried to hide the download button for models with a big "Create" button😅.
I understand that it might cost money to maintain their website, the community models provided on it is stunning .... but I don‘t see the purpose of paying for commercial use for something reaped-off real artists arts .... I think the next part will be real artists going against civitai for selling unauthorized materials from their original works and BOUM 🎉 ... finished. Civitai should be careful on this part, lawers and laws can bring very big problems 😢
Whats to stop me from downloading 2 current models merge them. Rename and claim "i made this" and try to license it?
I feel like this needed a little more thought before rolling it out.
I've seen multiple model "creators" shoving every one of their models (which are actually merges of other people's work) behind the paywall - often with each one being a different club (to rake in more Buzz, because you can't get access to Model X and Y without paying to join both clubs.)
This, despite the very intro of clubs saying that this is explicitly what they should not be doing. The whole thing was rushed out with a "We've got to cash in now" attitude across the board, without any apparent oversight or community standards.
They received some funding from Andreesen Horowitz recently, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were pressured into monetizing stuff sooner than later. If that's not where the pressure came from, I'd wager that the management just got really greedy. I would too if I were in a position of monopoly. We as a community just need to support other competing platforms and create some proper competition, then everyone benefits (except CivitAI, but they deserve it).
If they want to get paid for the models, then they should definitely pay all those people/artists whose works and images were used in the model for training.
Some people just cherry pick a sample of the best image outputs they have made from thier modle and use it to train the next version.
yeah already feared something like this would happen at some point, civitai first trying to own a large portion of "a potential market" to then introduce sketchy monitization schemes. its high time for model piracy to become a thing until some group does the "offering something better then piracy"
You are looking at it wrong. Currently they make nothing and are hosting petabytes of models... They are currently completely unsustainable. If they don't find a way to make money soon, there will be no citivai in less than a year.
The idea of getting something "early" is absurd. You are paying to get it when its done, everyone else is getting it later. This "early" BS started with patreon and similar platforms, before that, they used to upload their content on respective platforms when it was done . I'm all for supporting the talents for their hard work, but when they start deceiving us with BS terminology isn't something i'm going to support.
It won't work either. People will just pirate the "early" or "private" releases, like with OnlyFans and Patreon exclusive content. Considering how quickly models and LoRAs become obsolete in this space, monetizing it this hard is pure cash grabbing, there's no justification. You'll probably hear over and over how much compute power went into it blah blah blah. Not all work deserves this level of aggressive monetization. The people who are doing the work are already compensated, many are already living off of their patrons. This is pure greed from CivitAI, for the purpose of cashing in their monopoly in this space. People should just find alternatives and help competitors, CivitAI deserves to lose now.
same as with video games, preordering and buying 'higher tiers' of a game to get x days of 'early access'. it's just people who don't pay more just have to wait extra time. bs practices. it's a fault in the whole system, that companies always have to make more and more and more money, while the customer usually gets even less in terms of quantity and/or quality.
Looks like my previous comment about CivitAI using their social media shills to spin for them in this case got deleted. Have we touched on a nerve? Is Olivio trying to protect CivitAI's image by censoring criticism now?
@@zxbc1OH geez, entitled people having conspiracies about other groups that mostly work for free is hilarious.
Do you have a receipt showing your support for it before?
I see no problem in paying.There’s enough free around as well.
It'd be hard for them to find advertiser that are okay with nsfw
Yep, the amount of NSFW content on civitai might make it pretty complex to make that happen. Especially considering what some of that NSFW content is
i just wish nsfw content regardless wasn't as pidgeon holed as it is in the modern world, to the point that its mostly considered a shady aspect of life.
True. However, NSFW and the objectification/sexualization of women is what all technology has benefited from over the last 100+ years. Without it, no tech has rapidly advanced or innovated in a short period of time. Sad but unfortunate fact. Many tests have been done over the years, especially in advertising and marketing, and an attractive woman gets more than double the traction every single test. This has been tested recently even with UA-cam thumbnails. (hint hint)
@@TheDocPixel next best thing for tech to advance is War... so i Guess i prefer womens ;/ ?
@@lefourbe5596 absolutely 100% agree! Celebrating the beauty of females v. Glorifying death and destruction in war and gaming, no contest what should be everyone’s preference.
And thus the enshittification of CivitAI begins.
This reminds me of paid mods in Skyrim.
You should not put anything behind a pay wall if all your work is based on a free and open sourced model that you didn't made. specially a woke site like civit that removes whatever it want whenever they want from the platform with no support in the horizon.
CivitAI has been coasting on venture capital, last injection was from Andreessen Horowitz. Monetizing the work of model makers and lora creators is disgusting, its carpet bagging much like the crypto era was
As to your last point I totally agree! Time and skillsets matter and as a professional illustrator it is essential to give credit where it’s due. I have learned a massive amount of information from people sharing their findings. Time is money and we should be respectful in understanding the difference from playing and learning to generate revenue. Right now I’m generating humans in automatic 1111 which is mind boggling. I’ve learned so much that hires fix isn’t even needed compared to when I first started. If I use high resolution or control net at this point it’s just hacking the Ai system. What I can also say is thanks to you sharing your knowledge you expanded mine to another level. I hope to start making some videos on my findings.
You put a video together which showed a Comfy UI workflow that used Turbo and then you could change one line and get a high res improved output from it. Plus you then did an incredible video on how to actually use everything and even had some trouble shooting. I was like: this is free???? That had tremendous value and I would certainly expect content at that level to have a paywall mechanic to support you. Anyhoo, so I was like, this is a great way to get into ComfyUI so I tried getting it set up. Some of the boxes were red, but you had helpfully provided a solution for that which was an auto-update manager, when I tried to run that, the workflow exploded on my pc and comfy UI doesnt work anymore. So as excited as I was to get into ComfyUI and greatful to you for putting that video together, and as exciting as the value proposition of getting turbo working on my pc... that was the end of my journey with Comfy UI. If I had PAID for that, maybe I would have tried reaching out to you to get some tech support, which would probably be the WORST part of the stuff you are doing and most creators wouldnt want any of that.
You should use webui or learn computers to use comfy. Its not hard, its just your knowledge about computers and programs is thin as a hair.
Ok guys...but by using stable diffusion commercially you need to pay stability AI...so how will it be solved?
Where does your statement come from? Last time I checked it had an open source commercial permissive licence.
A better implementation would be that if the creators have a minimally "large" community, give them the option to create a CLUB tab. And let the creator be the one who manages how to create and distribute their content, and that CivitAI only limits itself to giving the platform and a way for the creator to earn profits, perhaps, taking 10% or 15% of the total.
This proprietary currency seems super fishy. I am not touching that with a 10ft pole
It’s a legal loophole. If they put cash payment options for models, they would be sued into oblivion.
@@johnnyc.31it probably helps whatever loophole that is that you can get lots of buzz for free too
@@johnnyc.31why they'll be sued?
RIP Civitai
civitAI aren't going anywhere. We need them. It's a huge platform. It'll be around for a long time
The time has come to save all the safetensor and ckpts that u can. be sure to share on other platforms. the open source model is compromised
@@juanchogarzonmiranda open source doesn't mean a model is free. It means it is freely iterated upon by the community. Nothing is compromised. People deserve to be paid for the work they do.
@@leegregory5617 then pay and keep paying, it's a free market. After all, Civitai is in a free market world and it is not the only page. There is much room for free exchange and development.
@@leegregory5617 it definitely doesn't mean a model is paid, that would very much ignore the free contributions that helped along the way.
This is a way for CivitAI to pay themselves under the guise of helping creators.
I'm happy to find ways to pay CivitAI that don't involve paywalling and incentivizing creators to monetize.
Download limits, upload limits for image posters. I hope this is the "cutting cost" type of innovation and not the "corporatization" type of expansion. The grassroots side of this stuff is getting murkier by the day
And then what are you gonna do with the models? Distribute P2P? You guys have no idea how expensive an operation like this is, they were burning through money up till now with how large models are. Bandwidth costs money and so does storage. Especially fast and redundant delivery.
@@VioFax
The free, open-source approach is what made Civitai and Stability different from other AI-generation platforms. This is a bad idea.
But hosting all these big files is not free. This platform loses a lot of money every day, they need something to finance all this, even without profit.
@@blizado3675your take is destructive for open source standpoint.
You could Say there is better options. (for example blender who live on donation but civitAi is WAY more expensive)
Ultimately they will have to "change" the plateform to maintain this insane service. (Even if it's Bad for the user...)
It's either that or shut down the plateform.
@@blizado3675 There are tons of sites running image generation for profit. They all suffer from limited access to models and loras. Civit has them all. If they spent their time making that work well and integrate nicely and marketed it a little bit they'd make more than enough to pay for the site and then some.
@@blizado3675civit should shut down.
They have to pay for the bandwidth somehow... This is honestly the least greediest way of doing it... They could just straight up charge a bandwidth cost You have to pay $20 a month for a hundred gigs... Currently their business model is sinking them into the ground they ain't going to be around longer than a year... I seen too many of these types of websites sharing much smaller files that have gone under because they had a "free always" model... Or would you rather they start selling ad space to pay for the bandwidth? You click the download link get sent to another page You have to watch 30 seconds of an ad just to download the model... No thanks.
I would like to see a crowd funding mechanism for training / release of new resources.
If a creator can hit a milestone they can release the resource.
Good point
There already is, it's called Patreon. CivitAI just doesn't like how another platform is taxing it, they want to get the tax instead. The result of forcing an exchange through "buzz" is they get a ton of liquid cash right away (literally printing money). They either know people have no choice and will be coerced, or they are desperate and were pressured by their investors to cash in now rather than later, or both. Bad optics all around and bad for actual creators, who now have more of their earnings taken by a third party.
Unless you're training images that you have rights to, using a base that you have rights to, you're going to run into copyright.
As soon as you attach money in any form to anything that ties back to an original imageset based on images scraped from the internet, you're going to have copyright issues.
@@jeffscott3186 which is genuinely why Emad's view of everyone owning AI is the future. Oil painters, kitchen designers, glassblowers... everyone can have models that can represent their work as a proofing tool for clients, or as a way to spread their art in new multi-modal ways. You are right, because now, its just open season for only the niche of people who know how to do this - us
Also, image generations seem to be kinda broken - it has said "onboarding additional generation services" for a while.
That wasn't really their fault, thier generation provider suddenly blocked all NSFW content (probably 75% of all generation's) on fears of people generating CP
@@jibcot8541what was their provider?
Did yo know, you can earn those Buzz just for liking images? Why everyone thinks all AI stuff is granted for free? You know how much electricity bill graphic card can generate from model training?
Great explanation like usual and as a CIVITAI Supporter ($5/month) I understand the need to support your favorite creators and creator sites so they can keep giving us all the great content we crave. I also do the same with Huggingface and a couple of other sites that I love for AI. But I understand my financial situation might be different from others and not everyone can do the same. Some sort of balance has to be achieved and hopefully, Civitai will listen to the "rage" and learn and adapt from it. Olivio you are the man and i need to go find your Patreon right away. Cheers!
Clubs are exactly the same as how patreon works, many content creators have a patreon where they offer additional stuff. I don't see the issue.
this sends all to hugging face, and fin to civitai
Civit is a great resource for models and learning resource. They have to pay people to create, maintain and serve the site and its files. These models are not small and their monthly services fees must be substantial.
All that said, the models, which bring people in, having training data that has not been licensed in the first place. Even if a model is using proprietary images but being trained on top of a base model that was trained on unlicensed datasets there is still a problem.
Talking about “paying” model creators for their work should ALSO begin a conversation about the original art, photos, video, etc that were collected into training datasets for training and without the consent of the creator. Something “found” on the internet was created and put there by people that also have rights.
Here it is, the fishy scheme is finally out xD I knew those "buzz" were suspicious lol
soon or later something needs happen I feel like, hosting those models and managing such website costs lost of money, they are not sponsored by anything, like not google or not HF etc. the trick is not getting greedy, support platform as a requirement, support creators as a passthrough.
I did upload workflows and modified models before and after comming back after some time I discovered that I got buzz for it. I don't know if someone actually paid for my stuff, but I think this currency can just circulate on civit AI between creeators without generating any more money that has to be paid which means there are no taxes?
It is kinda weird.
I think it would become equivalent to Fantia's virtual currency that can be cashed out.
It's not clear what kind of content will be presented. Example everyone mixes checkpoints collected from trained models. And by mixing, they don't even mention which training model was used. So now they will ask money for content which is free 😂
Last part (considerations of you) - Oscar winning Olivio. I fully agree.
Thank you
Ok, fair point. I agree with much of what you said, but will AI creators pay to the creators of the images they used to train AI models? I don't think so.
But bandwidth isn't free you realize the current model is unsustainable
Greed ALWAYS wins eventually...
long live linux, free as in freedom. Not as in cost. apreciate the free stuff, tip your creator so we don't get to this point.
Time is the only unit of measurements, thus time is the only unit of payment, spend your time wisely, you wont get it back when its gone.
Think about it, people give you money to buy bits and pieces and parts of your life, can you use this money to buy your own life back? no. the meaning of life is to share what you find.
Thank you for rhe video. Please touch more AI business related topics.
I definitely agree it has to be built out more if there is a pay wall. Communities should technically be free unless they have some benefit for support by products etc
The laws, regulations and bookkeeping are substantially different when using a custom currency (ie BUZZ) vs actual fiat. That basically why the majority of websites and games do it this way.
Actually the majority of games do it that way, because you loose track of how much you spend when you have to convert it into a different currency that is almost never a 1:1 conversion of your currency. In addition once you bought the virtual currency in your mind you already spend the money, so you are more liktely to spend it. Most donation pages work with real money, like Patreon, Buymeacoffee or other pages like that
@@OlivioSarikas Oh I know and understand. I wasn't so much referring to gotcha games as to websites/games you transact between other people/users. - It's why we do it too. When fictional tokens are transferred between one user to another, there is no financial transaction. If we would use actual fiat currency, then every transaction would be subject to taxes. - When paying out users from tokens to real fiat, we also can tax deduct it as expense instead of salary or payment for a service, which instead would add taxes to it.
Can't really mention what kind of work I do on UA-cam, their censor algo removes it.
It also requires certain licenses to allow fiat transactions between users (ie Patreon) that most websites don't have. And these are different for every country you want to be operational.
When a user buys tokens with us, this is a normal sale subject to normal sales taxes. When this user then uses tokens to make a purchase from another user, we simply deduct from one account and add to the other account, without having to register this as a financial transaction. When a user want's to cash out, they send us a B2B invoice, which for us becomes an operational expense, and is tax deductible.
Now that money is involved people are going to start suing each other.
I think it's would be fair to start training with the artist own accord for commercial licence (if artist there is).
Sell the model with a bigger part going to the artist the other two small would be CivitAi and the model maker. the AI model would be analysed by the og artist for quality control and he would make the price for individual download (that would do the premium price).
And let's be real. From experience i know that a single AI model won't match the original work in fidelity. if there is human touch in the process it would turn generic.
This is why i advicate traditionnal artist to use their own custom AI model if that make their work faster. It can sometimes make their work better without much sacrifice of their style.
Let's wait for open CivitAI or make rules more clear, like Olivio mentioned.
Thanks!
I have over 60GB of LoRA files, if many creators start asking for money... yeah, that's going to be very expensive...
Tbht the first introduction of "Buzz" or any other currency or point for this kind of website and any other website never sit well for me, too much BS monetization and when something like CivitAI grabs any model from the community and said "You can generate here instead, from any model you want and we can get the money instead of the creator of the model and since it's free model and we pay for the cloud etc etc" already sus move tbh.
You don't pay for cloud storage... They host these models on their own site, and they transfer petabytes of bandwidth every month... They have to start making money soon or they're going to go under
Yeah thats a little bit wacky, hopefully they resolve it!
The only correct opinion: If you are creating for money, you are crafter, not creator.
Those are like synonyms dude.
@@jtjames79
I think he meant grifter.
1:38 nobody needs money for that! One merely needs to resurrect and continue those MegaMerge garbage models of ever increasing size 🤡
I think it is more like a stakexange tipe of club. Let's see how does it evolve
yeah, let's see how well this works KEKW
F civit ai. First reason why people used SD and civit ai because it was "FREE" now they wanna take it away. Pathetic
It's a legal grey area to ask money for a model you created from artwork you "borrowed". I'm sure everyone asks permission from the artist and if they don't give permission, I'm sure that person respects the artists wishes and moves on instead of just going to any easily accessible site and downloading all that artists Patreon catalog of images to train the model on. Lol This is why since everything is a legal issue with how things are trained, nobody should own anything and it should all be free. I agree people should setup some optional donation, but it's optional for a reason.
Yea.. im longing for the day USA+EU make it illegal to have digital currencies on digital games or websites. They serve no utility whatsoever outside of using psychology against the user.
Civit should have monetised from the start,users should be able to monetize their models and Loras (IF there is no copyright infringment) pricing could be dirt cheap. But Loras and models are still work. No one entitled to anyone's work for free. If you get free stuff that's privilege not a right. Not unreasonable to pay a couple of bucks for a lora.
I don't know on the user side how much things should be... But I 100% agree that the website needs a way to sustain the thousands and thousands and thousands of terabytes of data that it's using up in bandwidth... There's even extensions that you don't have to even download the model You can have it streamed every time you use it directly from them... There's just no sustainability in that.
you are ready to support the creators of lore with money, but do these creators have the rights to the content that they stole from the artists? you will support the thieves, all the data for your models was collected illegally and while it was free it was difficult to attack to it
Every single artist everywhere, has trained themselves on the art of others. Get over it.
Do you have rights to write? To combine letters into sentences?
oh i see, how many artists recreate scenes from films with pixel precision how does midjorney do it? Apparently plagiarism is part of learning, right?@@tomolson6169
CivitAi would turn Just like my drug dealer I knew it
Civitai is a great platform and they deserve money for their services, period. So does the creators on the platform that provide us with quality stuff.
I just wish Civitai did it a bit better like patreon tiers to support them and the models we heart or something with a split share of some sort
Nope. It's time for a civitai alternative if they're going to be this sketchy about it.
Yeah, they deserve it. But should belong to public decide how and when to give them money, not being shoved behind a paywall or buying a fishy virtual coin. But no problem, knowledge belongs to everyone and other "Civitais" will eventually come.
@@_l3m35_ i hope that will be the case, as theres also the possibility that no one else might dare to start up another civitai out of fear for having to deal with too many IP lawsuits, and then we'll end up in a situation where the alternatives are only in the most shady places, while civitAI gets taken over by suits who are eager for a race to the bottom in the name of their own profit.
I cannot login to civitai, for me it's over, I hope these greedy a-holes get forgotten by the whole AI community
They should keep things free to maintain traffic and avoid the legal liability that comes with the space and partner with maybe a cloud computing provider to provide gpu resources for generating and model training maybe even building the ui into the website itself. That's a win win. Far more profitable.
Someone still has to pay for the GPUs and hosting. Taking into account their monthly traffic it's dozens of thousands only for the hosting. I can't even imagine how expensive the image generation is.
I absolutely have no problem paying for premium content & models, as long as the creators are compensated appropriately. Right now I have my doubts as to CivitAI compensating creators fairly, but time will tell.
After the community more or less collectively decided that the theft of actual artist's hard work to make the training data was okay (because reasons) I fail to see how anybody can expect to charge for their "creations" after that point. Sure a site like CivitAI can try to charge something to recoup hosting costs, but I think they'll learn the hard way that the community will likely decide they don't want to pay for that either if there is literally any other place to go for free.
kinda short sighted to call the entire community thiefs, in a world where seemingly everything is owned by someone, even styles.
@@sperzieb00n
You can claim something is not stolen if you base it on public domain and collective ownership.
Yet, if you do that, you can't ask for money that comes out of it.
Imagine somebody taking "Jenna Ortega" pictures to create a Lora, because "freedom", so you don't pay for anything, yet you ask money to other people to use your Lora.
I don't know how dumb somebody has to be to even considering it.
@@ChristianIceHmmm... that's the hard debate.
* Journalists are also paid for summarizing books they read and didn't buy but lend in the library or borrowed from a friend.
* Street artist are copying famous artwork on the pavement with chalk every day, minute?
* People are singing famous songs everywhere in the world pretty close to the original without having even paid for the radio station where they heard that song.
And _most_ models are not able to really recreate an image 99% identical to the original.
So as long as they are not able to do that, the models should be legally safe. - It's another case with the new MidJourney 6 as an image model or the ChatGTP service, which obviously in fact stored whole articles or maybe even whole books? - And indeed, it does make sense, if people ask eg about the constitution of the USA to have the whole original text saved.
But imho it's not legal to also store whole copyrighted content and serve it again through an own service.
@@sperzieb00n nah I didn't say that, what I said is that they don't seem to care about using stolen art, and furthermore some people are advocating supporting the creators of these models (which are using the stolen art that they have no license to use) when they wouldn't consider supporting the artists who seem to be swept under the rug by the community
@@henrischomacker6097
Models are legally safe as long as they are open source, meaning they are free.
Thank you Olivio for the news and for all your hard work. I am eternally grateful.
i am a creator too these buzz a just useless for me this is why i move away to tensor instead.
Would understand if there was something like a membership. The server costs must be enormous.
Yes totally agree, if they want to cover their running costs and some labour for maintaining their servers / systems. Imagine being subscribed to so many "clubs", spending thousands of dollars a month just to get access to resources....
I'm just starting to dip my toe into this puddle, so right now it's just for fun and seeing what I can do...but if I were to ever really get into it, then I would have no objections to a subscription service for a set monthly price as long as: 1) everything is included (no "premium" stuff behind an additional paywall), 2) no throttling of bandwidth.
The issue is that putting everything behind a paywall will drive away people like me who are just now getting into the AI scene, which could stifle creativity over the long run.
You are the honest channel. So if you could help me fine the best place for me to look . I would be grateful thanks what you do already.
not mandatory donations, otherwise I will just go with midjourney. I don't care about NFSW
I'm creators and i have 20k++ buzz and i don't care about it.
Calling it "Private Clubs" allows them to go around some legal issues likely as private clubs aren't regulated like businesses are.
While that sounds good in theory such a private club would likely need to be registered as a ngo publicly to have this effect. Even then most would not fall within these regulations and still need to pay taxes in their donations, like I do with my patreon
@@OlivioSarikasI guess they would like to make owners of the Clubs responsible for the content hosted.
I already give them money, not really a fan of buzz though
As far as I can tell, most of the internet community who follow content, in whatever field or interest, do indeed feel entitled to that content for free. It doesn't seem to matter whether that content is available without charge on platforms such as YT or is marketed copyrighted content such as films or books. On the other hand, I, personally, feel no obligation to send money to content creators simply because they have produced content. I support individual content creators only after I have judged their content to be useful or informative to a sufficient degree that I would want to see them continue
I love your work. I have faith in opinion. I'm trying to make a ai model. I have very little knowledge of technology. I need somebody to build me one which is the complete version of course I will pay.
Did Elon Musk buy CivitAi while no one was looking?
The point you make near the end if your video is an echo of the things content creators were saying when they were being sampled to train the models. It's also an echo of the argument of music, tv and film creators from the days of Napster until today. Where is their compensation in all this?
If Civit goes the route of ads, they can restrict access if an ad-blocker is detected. And, as far as paid access to the site, I use another site for 3D content that drastically slows down the amount of content you can download unless you purchase a subscription. So, you don't NEED a subscription, but it sure helps.
The popularity of generative AI (again) exposes the problems with some of our systems of society in general, like how weak the public domain is, or how money is basically speech if one just finds the right lawyers to legally intimidate (it only took warner a few years to intimidate spotify into paying them most of the profit, at the cost of all the medium and small artists on the platform, because spotify was supposedly a threat to potential profits of warner).
and censorship, and shadow-bans for criticism,...,...
WE WERE RIGHT TO GOLD RUSH
imagine github and hugging face and discord start charging. if the people that are uploading and making them money then they need to pay them. or do like youtube does to make money put more ads all over the place
But GitHub, discord and hugging face do charge for some services and charge a lot. They offer some services for free and charry for the extras.
just like every single thing in life, the bigger it gets, the more people try to squeeze money out of it
look at youtube, the prime example
😅 stop contribute to civitai, we need Alternative. monetizing kills community. we can just donate creators directly without civitai
Is there any alternative already?
The real money for AI is the first person/company that can create an imageset with six billion images that they own/have rights to. I don't know who would have the access, money, or resources...wait...****....Adobe. Great AI is going to be handed out for $39.95 per month.
Monetizing socialization of introverts.
I don't know mate, but I think CvitAI also needs money to operate, can't fault it really. It is just different ways of approaches
Very suspicious. Not buying it.
Well said
I seriously believe they already makin money from the others creations being on their site
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for the creators to get paid for their work and efforts, including the artists whose works have been used for training a product with a commercial license
sharing is caring, so donation always works and win for the long run.
it started for free, for fun, why destroying it?
what if people who invented spoon and fork says you cant eat with spoon and fork unless you pay me?
everything is so commercialized that you even have to pay for breathing.
well just go ahead, im sure some rational asian or russian will come out with something more sane and human.
5 or 10 years ahead we probably watching video called : "the downfall of civitAI and the Ai community"
we try to fight the establishment and world economic forum but in the end still being use and abuse, controlled by big bugs.
nerds becoming millioners, social media superstar, but in the end just a pwn for gov, CIA, and big corps.
no hope for humanity.
If they don't come up with a way to pay for the petabytes of monthly bandwidth soon, the downfall of citivai will be sooner than 5 years probably less than 1... They have to start making money somehow....
@@omegablast2002 thats not true. google, facebook, instagram, tiktok, etc.
all started from free service and they are still free service mostly.
ads revenues is huge, unless civitAi wanna to compete with elon musk, there is no need to change anything as it is.
if bandwidth is the main reason for this, civitAi already close in 6 month since it 1st release.
but it didnt happened. it growing bigger and bigger, its getting more famous.
like all instagram models and endorser, they are getting greedy and greedy.
its not bandwidth money that going to destroy any service, but greedy.
like i said, sharing is caring.
all men knew this.
this is why men shares their success, life, status, and power with women.
men easily trap to becoming a simp because we all have the desires to shares.
same with the people who shares stable diffusion to the world for free.
its a shame now a website want to capitulate the Ai liberation and turn it into pay something or else you dont get it services.
when everybody exploiting Ai for money, its the end of Ai development.
1 more, you cant argue about bandwidth because linux is free.
python is free.
do you think no body downloading linux and python? LOL
stop being a simp to those tech company.
Donations not equal to Subscription!
Payed for thier work??!! Absolutely!
I'm selling a copy of Linux for 100$.
Interested?
I disagree. Open-source means open-source. When you commit to working on an open-source project, you are doing so with the knowledge that you wont be paid for it. "made freely available" - from the definition of open-source. I'm all for adding a donation button or what ever, but there are people out there that can't afford to *purchase* models that might not be right for them.
No one cared about midjourney and others being paid generators because no one had to download them and run them locally and we had CivitAI as the free alternative.
It's exactly what Bethesda did with Skyrim and FO4 with paid mods. You take something that was free and charge for it and people are going to be angry.
One more thing; I guarantee you that not a single model on CivitAI is created with 100% non-stolen artwork. If I stole one of your videos, took 10 seconds of it and sold it for 99 cents, you wouldn't be ok with it. So how are we going to let CivitAI allow people to charge us for models trained on ill gotten source material?
I love the idea of paying our best ai builders and i want civit to ear a portion of that to act as a platform for this kind of thing. I just dont know how thats done
I'd pay for models that are equal or better then mid journey and Dall-e but a lot of the top models are fantastic but aren't perfect as a all around image generator. If mid journey charges a one time fee to download their checkpoint I'd happily obliged. I'm still happy with the open source models I currently have because it was all free despite a few headaches installing Auto1111.
Maybe CivitAI got ChatGPT to develop their business model.