I tend to use my old characters that have retired from adventuring - either due to age, infirmity, temporal responsibility (e.g. given land and title and having lordship over a territory) or (my favorite because it can be unsettling to the new PCs) mental trauma. They're in no condition to go out and slog through armies of bad guys but they have a vested interest in making sure what they fixed in the glory days doesn't get broken and that's where the PCs come in. They're in a position both to help and demand help from the PCs as a means to facilitating the adventure
Listening to this I began to conjure the image of an Alfred like Butler with Alzheimer's, "Remember when we hid that treasure during the war?" "Wait, what treasure?" "Treasure! Where?"
One of my favorite uses of the mentor character is to instigate a moment of heartbreak when a party has gone evil. *the approach the dock from which they’ll board a ship that’ll take them to a virgin land yet to be ravaged. There they see the old druid elf who has been advising and trying to guide them this whole time. He turns to them. “I’m sorry,” he says, tears in his eyes, “but I can’t let you board that boat.” They insist on getting past him. “I didn’t want to do this,” he sighs, “but you have forced my hand.” He draws his staff, and the battle begins. It is at this point that our double-digit-level party realizes that this NPC isn’t just a high level druid, but is also a powerful artificer who happens to have 5 levels of fighter.
speaking of age, I once had a 5 year old girl that was an oracle/seer as a result of circumstances surrounding her birth. she would have visions and then had to interpret them in her 5 year old mind to relay to the PCs. worked extremely well to deliver cryptic messages, keep the npc out of doing the job herself, and quickly established relationship between her and the PCs
I liked the video because of the amusing yoda impression, if that wasn’t part of the video I still would have liked but I would have liked twice but UA-cam doesn’t allow a super like rating. I just realized I hadn’t hit the bell icon so that’s something I had to fix!
My game takes place in a post apocalypse metropolis style city and my Mentor npc is a younger guy who's been exiled from the survivors compound. He has just enough info on the world around them to help them survive and seek out questlines but not enough experience to hand them the answers to every question. I've liked the balance it's given the game as the players know they can't run to him for everything little problem.
I actually had an idea to use a Doppleganger as the mentor for a low level group. It would have the motivation to help guide the characters and help lead them to destroy an enemy and obtaining an item. With the ability to look like anyone, they could appear as multiple different mentors, giving the PC's important information, never revealing that the information is all coming from the same individual. Ultimately, at the end, the Doppleganger would be revealed as such and the revealing that the true BBEG was the one that they were being directed by the whole time. I think it would be a great culmination for a end of a tier 1 story arc, ending when the party is around 5th level, hopefully planting some seeds for the next story arc along the way, maybe having to do with the item that the Doppleganger wanted. Still in the brainstorming stages, but feel free to run with the idea on your own or add to what I have here.
When playing Star Wars D6 I introduced a frozen jedi master from the Old Republic. He became the master of the jedi of the party (whom he named his ”junior padawan trainee intern”). He was grumpy, felt that the young jedi was useless, was an alcoholic and addicted to holo-porn. He often refused to accompany the party but could provide valuable tips and information at times. He had inpressive force powers but refused to use them due to something in his past. It was great fun!
I do a different approach to Mentors. 1) The mentor is less powerful but cannot adventure due to something, like being old and blind otherwise the mentor would be outshining the PCs. 2) The mentor does not read the script, and gives out wrong, but right advice. For example PCs looking for answers are sent by the mentor to find the hermit scholar who knows stuff, but finds the scholar dead killed by villains wanted by authorities that are planning an attack on a village and gets another mcguffin rather than information.
When you were doing your Yoda inpression, and were like *I can't die yet I still have to yell you* "verry inportant..." I was expecting a goblin bell plug!
I'm starting my first one in about 8/9 years and really need a mentor because I'm running for a bunch of first timers. Decided on Dourell Stormcast. The retired half blind dwarf fighter, who fell in love and took an arrow to the knee for his love Elliana (the elf) He is the proprietor of The Golden Griffin in Gray Harbour. 👍
Great advice (as always), Guy. Especially about using conversations with mentors to get insight into how the players feel about the game. I must do this more.
I love the spoon kid in The Matrix, because he's a child mentor, and only used once, but still tremendously important to the main character. "Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."
Great video! I have a mentor in my campaign which the players have come back to often, so score one for me. I need to take your advice on "Less is More", have a few more riddles, then have *The Mentor has left the game* moment. My mentor has a few "guardian" NPCs who will be lost after he is gone, and I absolutely know my players will interact with them more (they have so far, more than I expected!) at that point. Excited to see what happens! Thanks for your tips!
"Darth Vader murdered your father" - Lukes father was Obi-Wan Kenobi?! I knew it! Thats so much better then the actual plot of episode 1-3. More drama = more good! :D
My attitude on cliches: It's not the trope itself that's the problem, but the players' emotional response: Has familiarity bred contempt? You need to read your group more than what the pop culture fandom is saying. I imagine some fun can be had with self-awareness. PC: "Why are you doing the whole cryptic mentor thing with your advice?" Mentor: "If you just blindly followed exact instructions, you wouldn't learn anything, and that'd just mean more work for me, and you'd be that much more dependent on me. I don't need that kind of pressure."
Interesting twist for you in a Native American campaign I have begun I have an "anti-mentor" the BBEG is the most respected wise/medicine man in the tribe and one of the players is a young lady with the possibility of becoming a strong medicine person herself. The dishonorable things that the "anti-mentor" has done and will do are, in his mind, for the best of the tribal clan, and he wishes her to follow in his path and take over the defense of the clan.
No the "villain" had watched his family and much of his people die at the hands of a storm and vowed that his people shall never again face such a thing. So he captured a spirit that had knowledge of the songs, dances and medicines of weather control and forced her to teach him those secrets. He is now looking to steal the secrets of other spirits to further strengthen his clan so they never again need fear. He plans on training her to continue his work. In so doing he will unwittingly bring her down with dishonor as well.
A lot of the important details that go against what Obi-Wan told Luke were retcons, because George Lucas was basically making up the story as he went along, with little regard for consistency or continuity. Yoda's syntax was based on Japanese, because Yoda was based on famous sword instructor miyamoto musashi, author of The Book of Five Rings (the definitive Japanese fencing manual) and the man who popularized dual wielding in Japan.
I don't quite have a mentor as they aren't there to teach the characters within the plot, but they are essentially their boss or handler. He's a knight under the crown, basically the king's general, but for adventurers. He has other generals who control armies, but this knight is in charge of taking adventurers and bounty hunters on specific smaller missions where an army could cause more trouble. They are a Warforged fighter who has been designed around the idea that he can tank anything you throw at him and during the early levels he'll be around the players to keep them alive as I have many brand new players in this game. He can still die if they fail to tend to issues quickly and cleverly enough, but he's a cushion between them and trouble. He's helpful enough for some story moments and he can help in a fight, but he mostly acts as a resource rather than a direct solution. Need something smashed he's got that. Need passage through a town he's got that. Need someone to grab that jar of cookies off the toppest of top shelves he's got that. After a certain point he's going to have to head back to command and direct other adventurers leaving the party for a time. Later when the party reaches a similar level to him he'll be available as a normal hireling.
What about a mentor turning rogue later on? Perhaps a major antagonist created by deeds of PCs alone? And perhaps another antagonist turned into a mentor in due course of time?
Guntis Veiskats I used this idea, inspired by Luke in Percy Jackson: Lightning Thief. Worked really well and gave them the drive they needed to want to follow the planned adventure. Built up trust, encouraged them when they needed it, celebrated their successes and shared some of his past experiences that were related to the plot in a minor way. Only to use them to get the artifact his patron wanted and was necessary for the bbeg to achieve his goals. But I should mention, next time there was a mentor figure, they were highly suspicious.
I completely understand the cryptic mentor idea. In the case of them being a teacher, they're not there to give their student the answers but instead to teach their student how to find the answers themselves. If a teacher bluntly gives their student the answer to every problem then all their student would learn would be to go bother their teacher every time they have a problem. This does lead to a pretty major problem, however, since most D&D campaigns have stakes high enough that attempting to turn the player's problems into a teaching moment could potentially put the entire world (or a nation, or the lives of a lot of people) in even more danger. It's okay to let mentor characters be wrong about something in a way that still points the party in the right direction. Keeping with your Star Wars analogy, Yoda confirmed that Vader was on Bespin, but opposed Luke's decision to go confront him even though doing so saved the lives of all of Luke's friends. Wisdom is all well and good, but remember that your mentor characters are still human(mostly) and have biases and motives of their own.
Now D&D and Star Wars are two different things. You are right a mentor in D&D would only serve the usual purpose any D&D NPC will: Get killed by the group for the XP and loot. But! A mentor can be useful in other systems. In Star Wars: Luke is a tool (From Yoda's perspective), spendable ( i.imgur.com/i5eNchC.gif ). Yoda is the master/mentor who uses Luke. Yoda's goal is to fix what happened with Darth Wader. A theme seen in other places too: In "Kung Fu Panda" we have Oogway as the master/mentor who uses Po as the tool. It is hidden, and many miss it when they see the movie. But! There are not so much to be in doubt about, when thinking at it: Oogway says "There are no accidents" and "There are no coincidences", thus we can conclude it is Oogway who releases Tai Lung from prison! (Yes, see the movie from that perspective: Oogway deliberately releases Tai Lung from the prison!) ua-cam.com/video/Q04LPj99ZPc/v-deo.html Oogway's goal is to fix what happened with Shifu. (That was no accident either!) In "Harry Potter" we have Albus Dumbledore as the master/mentor who uses Harry Potter as the tool. Dumbledore's goal is to fix what happened with Voldemort. Yes, you are correct: The mentor have bias and own motive. The cryptic mentor is cryptic for not to reveal the real goal/interest in the main character!
First of all, nice Yoda voice! As regards the "metagame" use of the mentor, I think you left out an important way they can be used: as a plot device to justify the very existence of the party. Instead of players having to come up with preexisting relationships between the PCs or - worse - you having to provide a plot hook to draw them all together in the first session, you can simply tell the players that at least the first tier of the campaign will be premised on a group of adventurers assembled by a mentor. This simultaneously provides a strong in-game reason for the party to exist, while allowing a greater degree of freedom for the players to create their PCs and allowing the relationships between them to be based on things that happen at the table rather than things written on character sheets. And of course, you're bang on the money when you point to the utility of a mentor in delivering exposition. Not sure about the effectiveness of using a mentor as a conscience though. Players who are likely to be swayed by the moral judgements of an imaginary person in the game are unlikely to be murderhoboing in the first place. You can - returning to my first point - establish in Session Zero that a character being fired by the mentor ceases to be a PC, but things are pretty bad if you ever have to use this.
Having a mentor assembling the party is... well... You (as GM) providing a plot hook / plot device (The Mentor) to draw them together in the first session. You are in the situation that the PCs do not know each other (Even if their character sheets state otherwise.). I have played in a campaign that started out: Suddenly you are involved in something unexpected and you have to work together with the random other people nearby (The other players) to solve the situation. Second step in the campaign: We got hired by the company (that was involved in the situation.) as a team. We had shown we could work together, and that is a good skill to have as employees. Thus we got a NPC being the company's division leader for the division that became us. And (in some sense) that leader was our mentor.. (But that was not the primary function of that NPC.) I think a mentor is more what some call a GM PC. (A character played by the Game Master)
@@larsdahl5528 Well, _all_ the NPCs are played by the GM, so ... The term GMPC is normally used to refer to an NPC party member. A huge advantage of the mentor trope is that it uses an interpersonal dynamic that pretty much any player will be familiar with: working - and developing some kind of friendship with - people you wouldn't normally associate with _because you work with them._ Think of it as a set of "training wheels". Once the players have actually established some kind of working relationship between their characters, you can move on from there. You can have the mentor murdered by the BBEG. Not the most original, but revenge arcs are popular for a reason. You can have the mentor turn out to _be_ the BBEG. Betrayal is something that should be used very sparingly in RPGs, but this can be a great plot twist. Or, you can just have the Mentor give them some great references and contacts, a couple of parting gifts and send them out into the wider world.
My mentor character is going to act as liaison and eventually friend (if the players like him) he’s not exactly a mentor but an ally as well that is only slightly better informed than the players, and due to certain story reasons he can’t divulge everything he knows.
I'm planning to use a mentor in my next (and first) DM campaign. He is a Half-Orc war veteran that cusses you out when you mess up. A bit like Gordon Ramsay or Dr. Cox
when i'm DM, i usually have a few mentors dispersed on the story. i try to pick up some form the PCs backstories so they could relate immediately. But mostly is reflecting the pass of time in the world. Like, retired adventurers, or wise people. Sometimes crazy people with some otherworldly insight but i try to drop a few here and there... so the characters could actually find the "kind of mentor" they are open to find. That way ,they always work as mirror ;) (good analogy i never put it in that way). The other thing i try to make with the mentor is to give them stats... i hate all-powerful godlike mentors. I want them to be more insightful and wise but not "all knowing" so. that way they help the characters but not gives them new info. My most beloved Mentor is a gnome character named "Ras Ron" i played long time ago who retired to have an inn in the middle of a particularly dangerous road. So, characters always find him at the brink of dead, and find a place to rest. He is talkfull and insightful and experienced so he talk with them about what they are doing. And he tells stories that actually happen in other games. And the mentor continues growing as he helps players.
And after they find the kidnapped mentor, after building that relationship for 3 quarters off the campaign he turns coat on them, grievously injuring one or two of the Pcs and seemingly trapping them in the ruins of the ruined dwarf fortress so they must brave the perils of the underdark in order to escape.
Hmmm. I think. I think if I ever have a wizard I'll hopefully be able to give them a lirbrary and lab to work in. Then of course the house keeper is a bored young individual who starts getting into the arcane books, and becomes the wizard's apprentice. This would give me an excuse to say "oh, well I've been reading about [insert vaguely relevant subject] and I read that [insert vaguely relevant clue]" from time to time.
They don't even need to be wise in the traditional sense. The function of being a moral guide and a mirror is fulfilled, and the natural curiosity and inquisitiveness of children is perfect for presenting the obvious questions PCs often overlook.
And since they don't actually have experience or true knowledge, you don't have to risk handing the solutions to problems to your PCs, because they don't have those answers. They're expecting you to do it. I'm now thinking of making my players responsible for a child.
Screw that. Either say what you mean or I'll go do something else. Not quite as bad as the mortally wounded person who gasps out a cryptic clue and dies, even if you hit them with a healing spell while they're still talking, but close.
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R.I.P yoda, the best green goblin
Why did this comment want to put a goblin in named yoda
That was actually a pretty darn good Yoda impression at the beginning...
A mentor mentors us on how to use a mentors in our game.
The mentor mentors us on the use of mentors to mentor our player's characters. Everyone gets mentored!
Mentorception!
@@FrostFyre003 Everyone? But who mentors the mentor?
your Yoda impression is great. B#
Worth a like just for that impression!
0:00-0:50
Gaming Yoda:
"Left me my wife has"
"2 weeks to live, game I must"
I tend to use my old characters that have retired from adventuring - either due to age, infirmity, temporal responsibility (e.g. given land and title and having lordship over a territory) or (my favorite because it can be unsettling to the new PCs) mental trauma. They're in no condition to go out and slog through armies of bad guys but they have a vested interest in making sure what they fixed in the glory days doesn't get broken and that's where the PCs come in. They're in a position both to help and demand help from the PCs as a means to facilitating the adventure
Listening to this I began to conjure the image of an Alfred like Butler with Alzheimer's, "Remember when we hid that treasure during the war?" "Wait, what treasure?" "Treasure! Where?"
One of my favorite uses of the mentor character is to instigate a moment of heartbreak when a party has gone evil.
*the approach the dock from which they’ll board a ship that’ll take them to a virgin land yet to be ravaged.
There they see the old druid elf who has been advising and trying to guide them this whole time. He turns to them.
“I’m sorry,” he says, tears in his eyes, “but I can’t let you board that boat.”
They insist on getting past him.
“I didn’t want to do this,” he sighs, “but you have forced my hand.”
He draws his staff, and the battle begins. It is at this point that our double-digit-level party realizes that this NPC isn’t just a high level druid, but is also a powerful artificer who happens to have 5 levels of fighter.
speaking of age, I once had a 5 year old girl that was an oracle/seer as a result of circumstances surrounding her birth. she would have visions and then had to interpret them in her 5 year old mind to relay to the PCs. worked extremely well to deliver cryptic messages, keep the npc out of doing the job herself, and quickly established relationship between her and the PCs
I liked the video because of the amusing yoda impression, if that wasn’t part of the video I still would have liked but I would have liked twice but UA-cam doesn’t allow a super like rating.
I just realized I hadn’t hit the bell icon so that’s something I had to fix!
My game takes place in a post apocalypse metropolis style city and my Mentor npc is a younger guy who's been exiled from the survivors compound. He has just enough info on the world around them to help them survive and seek out questlines but not enough experience to hand them the answers to every question. I've liked the balance it's given the game as the players know they can't run to him for everything little problem.
I actually had an idea to use a Doppleganger as the mentor for a low level group. It would have the motivation to help guide the characters and help lead them to destroy an enemy and obtaining an item. With the ability to look like anyone, they could appear as multiple different mentors, giving the PC's important information, never revealing that the information is all coming from the same individual. Ultimately, at the end, the Doppleganger would be revealed as such and the revealing that the true BBEG was the one that they were being directed by the whole time. I think it would be a great culmination for a end of a tier 1 story arc, ending when the party is around 5th level, hopefully planting some seeds for the next story arc along the way, maybe having to do with the item that the Doppleganger wanted. Still in the brainstorming stages, but feel free to run with the idea on your own or add to what I have here.
When playing Star Wars D6 I introduced a frozen jedi master from the Old Republic. He became the master of the jedi of the party (whom he named his ”junior padawan trainee intern”).
He was grumpy, felt that the young jedi was useless, was an alcoholic and addicted to holo-porn.
He often refused to accompany the party but could provide valuable tips and information at times. He had inpressive force powers but refused to use them due to something in his past.
It was great fun!
I do a different approach to Mentors.
1) The mentor is less powerful but cannot adventure due to something, like being old and blind otherwise the mentor would be outshining the PCs.
2) The mentor does not read the script, and gives out wrong, but right advice. For example PCs looking for answers are sent by the mentor to find the hermit scholar who knows stuff, but finds the scholar dead killed by villains wanted by authorities that are planning an attack on a village and gets another mcguffin rather than information.
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*does cheer dance with pom poms*
Notification gang is here! Happy to see a new video from my FAVORITE CHANNEL on UA-cam!
*Video starts, hits the like button*
The mentor character dynamic is hands down my *FAV* in everything. Movies, shows, rping. Love it love it.
When you were doing your Yoda inpression, and were like *I can't die yet I still have to yell you* "verry inportant..." I was expecting a goblin bell plug!
Just what I needed right now, I needed help in creating a mentor character. About to dm my first campaign
I'm starting my first one in about 8/9 years and really need a mentor because I'm running for a bunch of first timers.
Decided on Dourell Stormcast. The retired half blind dwarf fighter, who fell in love and took an arrow to the knee for his love Elliana (the elf)
He is the proprietor of The Golden Griffin in Gray Harbour. 👍
Great advice (as always), Guy. Especially about using conversations with mentors to get insight into how the players feel about the game. I must do this more.
I love the spoon kid in The Matrix, because he's a child mentor, and only used once, but still tremendously important to the main character.
"Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."
I'm from South Africa too, and being from there yourself I must say you are a great inspiration to DMs from SA
Great video! I have a mentor in my campaign which the players have come back to often, so score one for me. I need to take your advice on "Less is More", have a few more riddles, then have *The Mentor has left the game* moment. My mentor has a few "guardian" NPCs who will be lost after he is gone, and I absolutely know my players will interact with them more (they have so far, more than I expected!) at that point. Excited to see what happens! Thanks for your tips!
Your vids help me out at the best times when I'm thinking about what to do
I usually try to watch a whole video before I respond. But best Yoda scene ever.
I remove the Mentor usually a little before the Players feel ready so that they become desperate and unsure (Easier to manipulate).
"Darth Vader murdered your father" - Lukes father was Obi-Wan Kenobi?! I knew it! Thats so much better then the actual plot of episode 1-3.
More drama = more good! :D
I like how this goes on for a whole minute and a half
Yeah, the Ranger in my game is currently being mentored by the main villain. Don’t tell him the Ranger that, though.
HTBAGGM rumor number two: Guy is actually Shad from the future.
Because Swords!
What about dragons?
WTF?
Oh wait. You meant Shadiversity, right?
I thought you meant ... never mind.
@@nickwilliams8302 Yup and that's how mentors work.
@@nickwilliams8302
Culture, man of, you are.
My attitude on cliches: It's not the trope itself that's the problem, but the players' emotional response: Has familiarity bred contempt? You need to read your group more than what the pop culture fandom is saying. I imagine some fun can be had with self-awareness.
PC: "Why are you doing the whole cryptic mentor thing with your advice?"
Mentor: "If you just blindly followed exact instructions, you wouldn't learn anything, and that'd just mean more work for me, and you'd be that much more dependent on me. I don't need that kind of pressure."
Interesting twist for you in a Native American campaign I have begun I have an "anti-mentor" the BBEG is the most respected wise/medicine man in the tribe and one of the players is a young lady with the possibility of becoming a strong medicine person herself. The dishonorable things that the "anti-mentor" has done and will do are, in his mind, for the best of the tribal clan, and he wishes her to follow in his path and take over the defense of the clan.
A bit like Albus Dumbledore's playing Harry Potter like a chess piece to be sacrificed?
ua-cam.com/video/LeG_judrcOA/v-deo.html
No the "villain" had watched his family and much of his people die at the hands of a storm and vowed that his people shall never again face such a thing. So he captured a spirit that had knowledge of the songs, dances and medicines of weather control and forced her to teach him those secrets. He is now looking to steal the secrets of other spirits to further strengthen his clan so they never again need fear. He plans on training her to continue his work. In so doing he will unwittingly bring her down with dishonor as well.
That intro was fuckin beautiful hahaha
Thank you, Mentor. Don't go dissolving on us!
A lot of the important details that go against what Obi-Wan told Luke were retcons, because George Lucas was basically making up the story as he went along, with little regard for consistency or continuity.
Yoda's syntax was based on Japanese, because Yoda was based on famous sword instructor miyamoto musashi, author of The Book of Five Rings (the definitive Japanese fencing manual) and the man who popularized dual wielding in Japan.
I never knew that about Yoda's inspiration. Makes sense though.
I don't quite have a mentor as they aren't there to teach the characters within the plot, but they are essentially their boss or handler. He's a knight under the crown, basically the king's general, but for adventurers. He has other generals who control armies, but this knight is in charge of taking adventurers and bounty hunters on specific smaller missions where an army could cause more trouble.
They are a Warforged fighter who has been designed around the idea that he can tank anything you throw at him and during the early levels he'll be around the players to keep them alive as I have many brand new players in this game. He can still die if they fail to tend to issues quickly and cleverly enough, but he's a cushion between them and trouble. He's helpful enough for some story moments and he can help in a fight, but he mostly acts as a resource rather than a direct solution. Need something smashed he's got that. Need passage through a town he's got that. Need someone to grab that jar of cookies off the toppest of top shelves he's got that.
After a certain point he's going to have to head back to command and direct other adventurers leaving the party for a time. Later when the party reaches a similar level to him he'll be available as a normal hireling.
Longest intro yet. Nice!
Needed this video, perfect timing 👌
What about a mentor turning rogue later on? Perhaps a major antagonist created by deeds of PCs alone? And perhaps another antagonist turned into a mentor in due course of time?
Guntis Veiskats I used this idea, inspired by Luke in Percy Jackson: Lightning Thief. Worked really well and gave them the drive they needed to want to follow the planned adventure. Built up trust, encouraged them when they needed it, celebrated their successes and shared some of his past experiences that were related to the plot in a minor way. Only to use them to get the artifact his patron wanted and was necessary for the bbeg to achieve his goals. But I should mention, next time there was a mentor figure, they were highly suspicious.
Hahaha! I bet so!
I completely understand the cryptic mentor idea. In the case of them being a teacher, they're not there to give their student the answers but instead to teach their student how to find the answers themselves. If a teacher bluntly gives their student the answer to every problem then all their student would learn would be to go bother their teacher every time they have a problem.
This does lead to a pretty major problem, however, since most D&D campaigns have stakes high enough that attempting to turn the player's problems into a teaching moment could potentially put the entire world (or a nation, or the lives of a lot of people) in even more danger. It's okay to let mentor characters be wrong about something in a way that still points the party in the right direction. Keeping with your Star Wars analogy, Yoda confirmed that Vader was on Bespin, but opposed Luke's decision to go confront him even though doing so saved the lives of all of Luke's friends. Wisdom is all well and good, but remember that your mentor characters are still human(mostly) and have biases and motives of their own.
Now D&D and Star Wars are two different things.
You are right a mentor in D&D would only serve the usual purpose any D&D NPC will: Get killed by the group for the XP and loot.
But! A mentor can be useful in other systems.
In Star Wars: Luke is a tool (From Yoda's perspective), spendable ( i.imgur.com/i5eNchC.gif ).
Yoda is the master/mentor who uses Luke.
Yoda's goal is to fix what happened with Darth Wader.
A theme seen in other places too:
In "Kung Fu Panda" we have Oogway as the master/mentor who uses Po as the tool.
It is hidden, and many miss it when they see the movie. But! There are not so much to be in doubt about, when thinking at it: Oogway says "There are no accidents" and "There are no coincidences", thus we can conclude it is Oogway who releases Tai Lung from prison! (Yes, see the movie from that perspective: Oogway deliberately releases Tai Lung from the prison!)
ua-cam.com/video/Q04LPj99ZPc/v-deo.html
Oogway's goal is to fix what happened with Shifu. (That was no accident either!)
In "Harry Potter" we have Albus Dumbledore as the master/mentor who uses Harry Potter as the tool.
Dumbledore's goal is to fix what happened with Voldemort.
Yes, you are correct: The mentor have bias and own motive.
The cryptic mentor is cryptic for not to reveal the real goal/interest in the main character!
Mentors can also become the villain and that is surely a treat!
my PCs have shifted to an evil alignment. one recently betrayed her mentor in a deal with a devil. yeah.... that's my party.
The best yoda acting ive seen in quite a while lul
The important thing about the Obi-wan example is that you can _always_ retcon a plot-point if you change your mind.
Ha! Your Yoda impression is great!!!
First of all, nice Yoda voice!
As regards the "metagame" use of the mentor, I think you left out an important way they can be used: as a plot device to justify the very existence of the party.
Instead of players having to come up with preexisting relationships between the PCs or - worse - you having to provide a plot hook to draw them all together in the first session, you can simply tell the players that at least the first tier of the campaign will be premised on a group of adventurers assembled by a mentor.
This simultaneously provides a strong in-game reason for the party to exist, while allowing a greater degree of freedom for the players to create their PCs and allowing the relationships between them to be based on things that happen at the table rather than things written on character sheets.
And of course, you're bang on the money when you point to the utility of a mentor in delivering exposition.
Not sure about the effectiveness of using a mentor as a conscience though. Players who are likely to be swayed by the moral judgements of an imaginary person in the game are unlikely to be murderhoboing in the first place. You can - returning to my first point - establish in Session Zero that a character being fired by the mentor ceases to be a PC, but things are pretty bad if you ever have to use this.
Having a mentor assembling the party is... well... You (as GM) providing a plot hook / plot device (The Mentor) to draw them together in the first session.
You are in the situation that the PCs do not know each other (Even if their character sheets state otherwise.).
I have played in a campaign that started out:
Suddenly you are involved in something unexpected and you have to work together with the random other people nearby (The other players) to solve the situation.
Second step in the campaign: We got hired by the company (that was involved in the situation.) as a team.
We had shown we could work together, and that is a good skill to have as employees.
Thus we got a NPC being the company's division leader for the division that became us.
And (in some sense) that leader was our mentor.. (But that was not the primary function of that NPC.)
I think a mentor is more what some call a GM PC. (A character played by the Game Master)
@@larsdahl5528
Well, _all_ the NPCs are played by the GM, so ...
The term GMPC is normally used to refer to an NPC party member.
A huge advantage of the mentor trope is that it uses an interpersonal dynamic that pretty much any player will be familiar with: working - and developing some kind of friendship with - people you wouldn't normally associate with _because you work with them._
Think of it as a set of "training wheels". Once the players have actually established some kind of working relationship between their characters, you can move on from there.
You can have the mentor murdered by the BBEG. Not the most original, but revenge arcs are popular for a reason.
You can have the mentor turn out to _be_ the BBEG. Betrayal is something that should be used very sparingly in RPGs, but this can be a great plot twist.
Or, you can just have the Mentor give them some great references and contacts, a couple of parting gifts and send them out into the wider world.
"If you're referring to the incident with the dragon I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle...a little nudge out the door."
My mentor character is going to act as liaison and eventually friend (if the players like him) he’s not exactly a mentor but an ally as well that is only slightly better informed than the players, and due to certain story reasons he can’t divulge everything he knows.
I'm planning to use a mentor in my next (and first) DM campaign. He is a Half-Orc war veteran that cusses you out when you mess up. A bit like Gordon Ramsay or Dr. Cox
Love the intro!
when i'm DM, i usually have a few mentors dispersed on the story. i try to pick up some form the PCs backstories so they could relate immediately.
But mostly is reflecting the pass of time in the world. Like, retired adventurers, or wise people. Sometimes crazy people with some otherworldly insight but i try to drop a few here and there... so the characters could actually find the "kind of mentor" they are open to find.
That way ,they always work as mirror ;) (good analogy i never put it in that way).
The other thing i try to make with the mentor is to give them stats... i hate all-powerful godlike mentors. I want them to be more insightful and wise but not "all knowing" so. that way they help the characters but not gives them new info.
My most beloved Mentor is a gnome character named "Ras Ron" i played long time ago who retired to have an inn in the middle of a particularly dangerous road. So, characters always find him at the brink of dead, and find a place to rest. He is talkfull and insightful and experienced so he talk with them about what they are doing. And he tells stories that actually happen in other games. And the mentor continues growing as he helps players.
Best intro ever hahaha
Dark it is the other side...
Yoda, shut up and eat your toast or you'll cook breakfast tomorrow!
The mentor is not there to provide players with the answer. The mentor is there to make them ask themselves the right question.
Anyone else have an issue of introducing a mentor only to have the know it all headstrong players just walk on by.
So now I know what it would have sounded like if Pat Morita voiced Yoda. Thanks? LoL
Sean Connery was perfect!
that was a minute and 30 seconds i will never get back, mr intro man
And after they find the kidnapped mentor, after building that relationship for 3 quarters off the campaign he turns coat on them, grievously injuring one or two of the Pcs and seemingly trapping them in the ruins of the ruined dwarf fortress so they must brave the perils of the underdark in order to escape.
I'd talk your Yoda over Disney's one any day ;)
Hmmm. I think. I think if I ever have a wizard I'll hopefully be able to give them a lirbrary and lab to work in. Then of course the house keeper is a bored young individual who starts getting into the arcane books, and becomes the wizard's apprentice. This would give me an excuse to say "oh, well I've been reading about [insert vaguely relevant subject] and I read that [insert vaguely relevant clue]" from time to time.
I wanted Yoda to ask for a taco
Can have a Devil mentor, or just Warlocks?
As for younger mentors, kids and the like, the protagonist's sidekick often provides some sort of subtle mentoring, don't they? :-)
They don't even need to be wise in the traditional sense. The function of being a moral guide and a mirror is fulfilled, and the natural curiosity and inquisitiveness of children is perfect for presenting the obvious questions PCs often overlook.
And since they don't actually have experience or true knowledge, you don't have to risk handing the solutions to problems to your PCs, because they don't have those answers. They're expecting you to do it. I'm now thinking of making my players responsible for a child.
Hey Guy,
Do you think using a Mentor NPC will be good for a brand new party?
Gold
Luke... seagulls...
Was that a Tommy Wisea reference?
Master ugwe fron kungfu panda.. And how do you feel about multiple mentors guy??
I feel like this shouldn't be in the "better player" playlist; seems like more of a GM topic.
Stealing a cake being a capital offense is not out of keeping with a medieval setting.
Two words:
Unkle Iroh
90 Seconds of introduction... new record?
In Guy's defence, that's a pretty good Yoda.
Screw that. Either say what you mean or I'll go do something else. Not quite as bad as the mortally wounded person who gasps out a cryptic clue and dies, even if you hit them with a healing spell while they're still talking, but close.
There is no spoon...
Can you make your videos louder?
...learning some grammer you should...! ;-)