The Ackerman geometry looks opposite to what it should be in the video, but that's just a distortion caused by the wide angle mode that I'm using in the GoPro (notice the windshield is distorted too). Please refer to the suspension video for a more accurate view of how the steering is set up.
Thanks. That's the powertrain. There's no flex in a tube chassis and the panels are mounted on rubber washers. There is some vibration in the chassis from the powertrain, but the noise you're hearing is definitely the powertrain itself, ie: motor, diff, chain/sprocket. Also the knobby tires.
Instead of a lift I would just find a tire you like and put some 31’s on it that would give you clearance and still a comfortable ride plus look awesome! lol
I've done a bit of research on steering lately and have found that parallel or even anti-ackerman steering can have benefits at higher loads/performance levels due to how tires operate, specifically in regards to slip angle.
This is the most incredible buggy I’ve ever seen this is somethin I dream about having lol when people say my dream car is a lambo I would take this buggy over that it is so nicely built
i like how it sounds like luke's land speeder from the first star wars movie. 130+/- miles is pretty good for range, especially at the speeds you're traveling. tesla spent millions in r&d to get the range they do, so for being a home build, i give this a well deserved golf clap all around.
It definitely does haha!! and just wanted to clarify he mentioned 80km which is around 50miles, Not bad for that type of battery and a relatively small pack compared to a vehicle which uses 3-4x as many batteries
Dude you built a bloody masterpiece....i watched yoir build and range test vids on this thing....and i jist watched in awe basically!!! A great great job!!!!
Great build and video. I have built four custom EVs so far and appreciate the detailed description of what you went through to get your buggy completed and operational. It's always a little bit of a risk to build something like this and it helps to be able to see what 50KW of peak power really looks like in a 500KG vehicle and how far you can realistically go on a 15kWh battery pack.
I have had good luck with the DALY on my motorcycle. Put up big bucks on a 32s DALY for the golf cart, failed after the first use. Inspiring me to give it another shot.
Very impressive and exactly what I would like to own, perhaps build. If you ever produce a set of plans I would like to know, especially with the extra clearance you mentioned. Or if you'd like to make a couple more, I'd be interested. I have plenty of fun trails on my property here in California.
I got so many questions! 0-60? HP? Cost to build? Have companies offered to buy your design? Would you build more? Would an alternator or stator or something be possible to regain some charge or run electronics? Would 120mph be possible/stable? What made you go with a CRV diff? Wanna trade it for my 350z? 😁
I just love this build, a true re-creational vehicle! What is your experience of your build from a noise-level evaluation? From the video it seems just right.
The cold is definitely what lowers performance from a battery, but too much heat can lead to catastrophic damage too (ie venting and even fire with other types of li-ion), not just faster degradation. It's generally a good idea to keep the cell temp below 60C. The cells I used specifically can handle temps down to -20C. I show the battery temperature periodically throughout the video and it stays at a comfortable 33C. The cells and conductors are sized large enough to keep resistance and heat build up to a minimum in normal operating conditions, and the side panels incorporate forced air intakes to help actively cool the battery while driving hard.
Have you thought about a small solar panel on the roof to somewhat trickle charge it just an idea and not entirely sure if it would work with your batteries but just an idea
Congrats on the success of your build, im inspired since i already have an me1616, a couple dozen 32650, and a sevcon that would probably be replace with a kelly. Did you say 40 acres 😯, lol
I am wondering of the chain off of the motor is overheating? I tried a chain off of the electric motor in my electric SXS conversion setup and it was very loud and it overheated quick. I ended up switching to a belt. I am curious as to if the chain is working out on your build. Cheers!
Yes, it's working fine. Chains can tend to get warm to the touch, some aren't too bad and some can get to the point where you can't hold onto it for long with bare hands, especially when they're first installed and begin to stretch out. But they shouldn't be smoking or red hot, of course. All chains make some noise, but if the noise and heat is excessive (ie more than it was with the engine - not sure how yours is/was set up) then you've got either an alignment, lube, or slack issue. Misalignment and tension are the biggest contributors. Whether a motor is electric or ICE has 0 affect on how a chain performs if the torque specs at the motor/engine shafts are similar. If the new motor produces more torque, then that could be an issue. More torque would probably require a beefier chain (I used a 520 o ring chain). But if it's running fine with a belt and it's not getting wet or jammed with debris or anything, then I'd just keep running that.
Как то странно батарея расходуется !? но трасса огонь ! как для багги создана ))) если я правильно понял из видео то дорога по которой вы проехали тестовый заезд в 50= км проходит по вашей земле то это круто !!! тут нет полиции что бы помешать вам тестировать ваш автомобиль ))) How strange the battery is consumed!? but the track is fire! how it was created for a buggy))) if I understood correctly from the video then the road on which you drove a test run of 50 = km passes through your land then it's cool!!! there are no police here to stop you from testing your car)))
Man, I love your builds... I was wondering, does your particular Kelly controller support "RELEASE THROTTLE REGEN"? Since coasting is not particularly useful on a Kart, this would put back more amps in the battery every time you release the throttle, versus using brake regen, just like in a Tesla. This would also diminish brake pads wear as you would not have to use the brakes just to reduce speed... something to try. What do you do with all your electric toys? Do you keep them, or sell them? Nice fire roads in your area to ride your creations... Cheers Dan
Damn! I really love this project. but I have the impression that the buggy tends to drift a little bit when you turn the steering wheel. Otherwise great project. Bravo James! 👏🏾👏🏾
Thanks. It steers as good as anything I've driven prior until the lsd locks up (as it should), then understeer happens if I'm not giving enough throttle to spin both wheels - but that's technically 'drifting' when turning. Understeer happens with every solid axle kart or atv, we just overcome it but using more hp to spin the ass around. At least the lsd eliminates it when driving normally. I guess I'm a bit confused about what you mean. I did mention the buggy sways when driving fast on loose rock though, as does any other vehicle I've taken on that access road. It's like driving on marbles.
Wow awesome range, way more than I was expecting for something this size/weight. What app are you using to monitor the battery voltage? Is it one for your BMS? Thanks!
Thanks. Roughly $7k CAD. About a third of the cost of Polaris' electric Kinetic, which has a similar power to weight ratio but this buggy gets around 10 km more range per charge with a slightly smaller battery because its a couple hundred lbs lighter.
I'm always surprised about your projects. How do you design the chassis, what calculations does it involve? Could you recommend a book or some source where I can learn to design and produce such awesome structures please?
Sorry for the wait. I was going to post them a couple of weeks ago, but decided to wait until I upgrade the suspension. It's the only thing I'm not really happy with. Rear shocks should be 100lb stiffer and the front should be 100lb softer, and I want them all to be a couple inches longer to raise the ground clearance a bit. Once that's done and I'm happy with it, then I'll share the plans.
Did you do anything for security of the buggy? So people can't just drive away with it or try and just throw it in the back of a trailer or truck and take off? It's a lot of money for a project like this, and I hear stories of them getting stolen way too often - but not as much as sports bikes getting stolen, but still!
Don't you think you underrated the battery for the engine performance? Because it seems. The engine can reach 24kW cont. but your battery pack optimal discarge rate is around ~0.8C-1C, so the baterry power output should perform optimally around 11.2kW-14kW. The voltage drops much above ~150A. For the battery life think about that to limiting the Amperage/Performance.
Nope. I'm not sure why people make these wild guesses about the batt's c rate based on voltage drop, but it's much higher than that. You need to look at or at least ask for the factory specs before jumping to conclusions. The LFP cells are rated for 3C (18A) continuous discharge and 60A peak, and to last at least 2000 cycles at their continuous rating. I'm not the least bit concerned about their lifespan. At 18A cont * 24P = 432A. At 102.4V * 384A = 44.2 kW continuous. The voltage drop is exactly what it should be for these and LFP in general. These are not NCM and perform very differently. You just need to compare discharge charts to understand. NCM aren't designed for a high voltage drop. Voltage cut-off is typically above 2.5V. Not the case for most LFP. Voltage cut-off is 2V, and they reach nowhere near that. These cells will and were expected to drop ~0.5V each under a 3C load. NCM might be half of that, and there's a good reason why. These LFP's can output more power (not energy) per unit of size because of the simple fact that with batt tech you can have either big energy or big power or a little of both - but not a lot of both. More power output = higher voltage drop. Higher c-rate = more voltage drop. Just compare these with the M50lt's I'm using for the bike. M50lt's are half the weight/size, roughly the same capacity, but can only deliver barely more than half the continuous current despite being nearly twice as energy dense. ~0.5V drop per cell from my pack = roughly 10V total at continuous current is what they should be doing and is exactly what we're seeing in the video. They are fine. As I pointed out to another commenter who assumed the same thing: "the amount of voltage drop depends on the sum voltage and current as well as bad connections or improperly sized conductors, but if the latter two check out then whether or not the voltage sag is technically 'bad' depends on the cell design and chemistry. They're not all created equal, and the 'general' rule of limiting voltage drop to
To get more range have you ever though putting another 14KW battery and connect it parallel to the other battery? (positive to positive and negative to negative) that should give you a long range
Lol, I built the battery. If there were more space for larger p groups, then there would be larger p groups. This isn't for cruising though. It's a kart built for a track. This test is really just for documentation purposes so that folks can better gauge what they need for cap for their own diy personal vehicle projects based on power vs weight. This range is far more than what's required for time trials on the track. The track is less than a km long lol. If I were to build a buggy for cruising the trails then it would take the form of a sxs that has more room for more battery and range.
@@JamesBiggar your video was awesome and your craftsmanship and fabrication was just as awesome - I was really just asking would it work in theory more than it was a suggestion, I don’t word things very well sometimes lol
In theory yes. You can expect to use a certain amount of energy per km with a given weight and speed (more specifically the avg power used to reach and maintain the target speed). Energy is measured in watt hours (amp hrs * volts). More parallel connections (amp hrs) and/or more series connections (volts) will increase the total watt hours and subsequently increase the range at the same speed and power.
I love these videos, I find it hard to square the speed with how fast it looks, I regularly ride my EUC at 40kmph and it doesn't feel as fast as this looks. I'm assuming thats from the wide angle lens from the gopro.
Not sure. Past POV drive footage that I've shot with the Hero 5 looks super slow, slower than what it feels on the bikes. I hated using it, too underwhelming. But the Hero 10 that I used for this seems about right to me.
Did a bit of searching and apparently it's caused by the frame rate (60fps). Called the fast-forward effect. It only looks faster because most film and video we've seen in our lives is shot at 24-30 fps and we've become accustomed to the 'micro-jitters' as one user explained it at the link below. We hardly ever saw 60fps without fast-forwarding, so when we do see a video shot with the fluidity of a higher frame rate then our brains automatically assume it's being sped up. I assume past videos seemed slow to me because I probably recorded
On the road it seems to require about 15 KW to maintain 80 kph, which seems like a lot. Any idea what the motor efficiency and drive train losses are? Does the differential get hot?
It's actually using what it should to maintain speed - how much it uses depends on the gradient. I point to better references below and explain the #'s. But tldr, the range ultimately speaks for itself. Nothing gets hot, everything is cooled and the diff is full of fluid and working fine. There's a link for the ME1616 dyno chart below, provided by thunderstruck-ev.com, showing the motor is around 92% efficient. I don't have a dyno to test power output at the wheel but we don't really need one to get a fair estimate on overall efficiency. The moments in the video where you see me doing >80 km/h are when I'm either climbing or descending a steep hill - there are brief moments where I'm only using around 10 kW to maintain that speed on level ground, which is what it should be using. Video does not do hill grade any justice for some reason, and bear in mind there's a 5 sec delay in the bms display. It's not hard to notice the switch from flat to hill by watching whether or not I have to accelerate or decelerate to maintain speed. But it's hard to say exactly what the grade is without measuring to know exactly what the power use should be, so I ignore those #'s. Even just a 2-3% grade, which is hardly noticeable on camera let alone in the buggy, increases the power requirement by almost 30% to maintain speed. The hills in the video are between 5-15%. At 29:12 I begin climbing the steepest, which is technically the 'back' west side of the St. John river bank. The river itself is another quarter to half a km away from where I turn off onto the access road by the TC highway. It only takes around 18-20 kW at the most to climb and maintain 75+ km/h. But again, it's hard to guess the grade exactly and I'm on and off the throttle climbing and descending sometimes faster than the bms can keep up, so it's hard to gauge efficiency that way with certainty. For better perspective, refer to 1:50 where I'm on one of the few stretches of reasonably level ground after climbing the hill and using 7-8 kW to maintain around 65 km/h before going over the other side. At 2:40 I use just 4-5 kW to maintain around 60-63 km/h on more level ground before hitting the trail. At 27:35 I'm using 6-7 kW to maintain around 65 km/h on probably the longest stretch of level road. The buggy and me together weigh 1207 lb (547 kg, specs in the description), with an effective projected frontal area of around 0.5-0.7 sq.m. Using 4-5 kW to maintain 60 km/h, or 7-8 kW to maintain 65 km/h, or 8-9 kW to maintain 70 km/h on reasonably level ground (0-3% grade) means the buggy is overall around 75-80% efficient (see calculator below). Even looking at the #'s from the steepest hill climb at 29:40, using around 20 kW to climb a 10-15% grade works out to a slightly higher eff of around 85%. Of course, efficiency isn't constant with throttle input/load, as the dyno chart for the motor shows it's most efficient >15 kW. But ultimately, if we look at the range that I'm getting - 80 km's from a 14 kWh bank, or 5.7 km/kWh - it's right on par with most commercial ev's that range from 4-6 km/kWh. As I mentioned in the video, the Polaris Kinetic is a good comparison. So the range basically verifies the power use vs speed and the efficiency. If power use was more than it should be, then the range would be less than it should be. www.electromotive.eu/?page_id=12&lang=en www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images/companies/1/1616dyno.JPG?1548116909431
@@JamesBiggar Thanks for your interesting and detailed reply. I will try those links. I'm sure efficiency is also affected by the somewhat knobbly tread pattern of your tyres. In any case, it's a very impressive build, well done!
Kelly controllers are not good or efficient. I had a kelly on a IMP motor, and it would heat it up quick. VERY inefficient. I switched to an IMA inverter with lebowski brain, and now no matter what I do I can not get the motor warm. Super efficient! I love it, and I can do feild weakening, super awesome setup!
I think that's a bit subjective depending on who's behind the wheel. Keep in mind that I'm driving an unregistered/uninsured open wheel vehicle on public roads and trails for the video, so I'm kind of playing it safe for liability reasons...since I'm breaking the law and sharing it with the world and all. 18K views isn't anywhere near enough to compensate for the cops or Rangers impounding a $7K machine that I technically have no title for because I'm acting a fool with it lol. But if you want more context for what you're seeing before deciding if a machine like this is too slow 'for you' or not, I would look at the power use in the BMS app while I'm driving and refer to the ME1616 and gearing specs in the description. I can only speak for my own expectations, which have been exceeded. The 240-250A shown while accelerating isn't even half throttle/power. There's plenty to spare. You can use the calculator below to figure out the theoretical accel rate based on mass and max starting torque. This has the same power to weight ratio as a RZR RS1. It's ~300lb lighter and 2X the power of a Ranger 500. For me, their acceleration is slow. For others, they're not. Of course, I can always change the sprocket ratio or program even more torque in the controller when I get bored of what I have now. Or I can save up for another motor and esc, then ditch the diff altogether and power each rear wheel independently with 2X the hp (140+), like a dual-motor Tesla. I'm content for now, though. Need a proper track to drive it on first. www.omnicalculator.com/physics/acceleration
I'll do a 0-60 when the track's finished. Next year probably. No place local I can take it for that kind of test unless I sneak it out onto the 4-laner. In the meantime, you'll just have to rely on science and the ME1616's history of proving itself. Check out the Ghost EV. He's running two of them in his race car. They work even better in a 300 lb supermoto: ua-cam.com/video/lD6UMxvWTLI/v-deo.html
A 3 speed switch connected to pin 15 (I believe) from the esc, but it needs to be enabled in the software first. Kelly's user manual explains. Contact Fany at sales@kellycontroller.com if the instructions aren't clear: media.kellycontroller.com/new/KellyKLS-8080NNPSUserManualV1.13-120N-3.pdf
Very nice. Any thoughts to adding some audio to give it a custom scifi sound when you drive around, or maybe integrating in a solar panel as a battery tender/bonus range?
If I wanted to break more laws on video, yes. I can gear it and tune it to produce any speed I want, within reason. That's what gearing and a programmable esc are for. It's currently on par with most atv's and utv's. This isn't a highway machine. Shouldn't be on the asphalt with it...
I believe I just said that, yes. Again, with the right gearing, it can go up to 300km/h while towing a bus if I wanted it to. Would take a while to reach it, but it's possible. As it is, it suits me just fine.
How does this work over there in.... Canada?? In the Netherlands you are not even allowed to have an electric motor on your bicycle if you rigged it up yourself and can drive it without using the paddles. Because when not moving your feet means it is not a bicycle and in case of an accident with the bicycle the general insurrance of a person is used to pay for that. When you drive a moped or something it needs to be a registered powered vehicle that needs it's own insurrance. And that is only possible if it has been tested etc. for this specific type of vehicle and also needs its dedicated insurrance for this vehicle. This all sucks a bit because it makes life less fun. This county is small and we have a lot of people here in the west of it so I guess that there are more strickt rules compared to your place regarding home made stuff. And if there are rules, nobody cares about them there in those remote places maybe?
Don't need to register or insure off road vehicles here unless you leave your property with them. They have to be registered and insured for public trails and highways. Whether or not it has an electric motor or gas engine is irrelevant. The reason e-bikes are limited in power and regulated so much nearly everywhere is because bicycles are not meant to be powered by motors - they're meant to be powered by humans. A human can only output a few hundred watts at a time and have a limited natural pedaling speed. The frames can only handle so much weight, and the brakes and tires aren't rated for high speeds, to name a few other reasons. E-bikes need to be fitted with motors smaller than 500W and can't be faster than 35 km/h in Canada, otherwise it needs to be inspected and tested on a dyno by an engineer and certified safe for the power and speed that it can do, and then it needs to be registered and insured as a motor driven cycle or scooter or motorcycle, whatever the case may be. The same if I wanted to drive this buggy on the highway. I would need to have it inspected and certified safe, then registered and insured. Whether or not I build it myself is irrelevant, as long as it meets basic safety and equipment standards. It doesn't, though. It needs fenders and wipers and turn signals, etc. That's why I only snuck it out on the back road this one time for testing and stayed below the speed limit. I'll be driving it on a private rally track on my own property from here on out - I've got to finish building it first, though.
@@JamesBiggar Well then I think it works similar over there . we also can do what we want on private propperty. only, most people's propperty over here ends at the front door of the house or 6 meters further if they have a driveway to park the car. in the more rural parts of our country you will.find more farms and a bit more land but nothing compared to what you have there. But as I said most people own something like 200 tot 250 square meters. meaning having a house on it with a little patch of garden begind it and maybe also a few meters infront of the house. And the most common houses are connected houses in a long line. so maybe 8 or 10 or 20 houses all pretty mucht the same in a line under one roof. A bit more luxury is 2 houses under one roof. Mostly mirrored in the middle. And best is the free standing house that can vary from very small to, for here, very big but even 80% of them only have just a few hundred square meters of land. I am pretty jaleous to see the space and outdoor propperty that many of you have. To me it is the greatest luxury. just a lot of freedom and space. no neighbour that is sleeping 1 meter away from you on the other side of the wall of the mirrored houses. We live in a small village 20 km near the city of Rotterdam. We have a 450 square meter piece of land and have a 2 under one roof type of house from the 30's. we love our garden and garage but still no space to have real freedom.
Isso obviamente não é a velocidade máxima. Eu mostro 85 usando apenas 50% de energia. A velocidade máxima teórica é de 120 km/h com marcha 5:1. Eu dirijo pelas condições. É uma trilha pública. Eu não dirijo de forma imprudente em trilhas públicas. Você pode dirigir mais rápido em seu próprio buggy, se preferir.
Para efeito de comparação, a velocidade máxima do Polaris Ranger XP Kinetic é de apenas 100 km/h, e o buggy Honda Odyssey fl350 é de apenas 95 km/h. Em outras palavras, meu buggy caseiro tem um desempenho melhor do que os buggies comerciais de tamanho igual.
The Ackerman geometry looks opposite to what it should be in the video, but that's just a distortion caused by the wide angle mode that I'm using in the GoPro (notice the windshield is distorted too). Please refer to the suspension video for a more accurate view of how the steering is set up.
Good video, I have noticed some high pitch noise is it vibration flex on the panels or just sprocket / engine?
Thanks. That's the powertrain. There's no flex in a tube chassis and the panels are mounted on rubber washers. There is some vibration in the chassis from the powertrain, but the noise you're hearing is definitely the powertrain itself, ie: motor, diff, chain/sprocket. Also the knobby tires.
Instead of a lift I would just find a tire you like and put some 31’s on it that would give you clearance and still a comfortable ride plus look awesome! lol
Pp
I've done a bit of research on steering lately and have found that parallel or even anti-ackerman steering can have benefits at higher loads/performance levels due to how tires operate, specifically in regards to slip angle.
This is the most incredible buggy I’ve ever seen this is somethin I dream about having lol when people say my dream car is a lambo I would take this buggy over that it is so nicely built
i like how it sounds like luke's land speeder from the first star wars movie. 130+/- miles is pretty good for range, especially at the speeds you're traveling. tesla spent millions in r&d to get the range they do, so for being a home build, i give this a well deserved golf clap all around.
It definitely does haha!! and just wanted to clarify he mentioned 80km which is around 50miles, Not bad for that type of battery and a relatively small pack compared to a vehicle which uses 3-4x as many batteries
Let us know if you change the gears, and give us an update, please. Your specs are way cool, tons of info. Perfect.
Wish I had the ability to build something like this great job.
dude much respect, that build is nice af. thoroughly impressed
Awesome range test! You've absolutely sold me on this motor/drivetrain combo.
Dude you built a bloody masterpiece....i watched yoir build and range test vids on this thing....and i jist watched in awe basically!!! A great great job!!!!
Great build and video. I have built four custom EVs so far and appreciate the detailed description of what you went through to get your buggy completed and operational. It's always a little bit of a risk to build something like this and it helps to be able to see what 50KW of peak power really looks like in a 500KG vehicle and how far you can realistically go on a 15kWh battery pack.
This is a consumate professional. So impressed. Wouldnt be surprised if "opportunities" from other "agencies" soon appear....
Legend say that James Biggars Video went out, because a Ufo landed near by and checked out James Electric Buggy. Nice!
I found these cells to run very cool in my motorcycle. Yeah right around 32c with the FLIR
I have had good luck with the DALY on my motorcycle. Put up big bucks on a 32s DALY for the golf cart, failed after the first use. Inspiring me to give it another shot.
Great build. I’m looking to create a much smaller build in the near future. 2 seater go cart.
Excellent content and creation. Precise and economical editing and engineering.
What a great build, and super performance. I'll be going back to view the build videos again!
Thanks Bruce!
Very impressive and exactly what I would like to own, perhaps build. If you ever produce a set of plans I would like to know, especially with the extra clearance you mentioned. Or if you'd like to make a couple more, I'd be interested. I have plenty of fun trails on my property here in California.
Great job James! Amazing work!
I got so many questions!
0-60?
HP?
Cost to build?
Have companies offered to buy your design?
Would you build more?
Would an alternator or stator or something be possible to regain some charge or run electronics?
Would 120mph be possible/stable?
What made you go with a CRV diff?
Wanna trade it for my 350z? 😁
You can use Li NMC, they are safe like LiFePo cells.
Looks like a blast. Good stuff.
I just love this build, a true re-creational vehicle! What is your experience of your build from a noise-level evaluation? From the video it seems just right.
It's quiet
Does this recent heat wave we've been having affect the range at all? I know today she's gonna be hot as can be jeeeze
Batteries actually perform better when they are warmer. The only downside is that they also degrade a bit faster.
The cold is definitely what lowers performance from a battery, but too much heat can lead to catastrophic damage too (ie venting and even fire with other types of li-ion), not just faster degradation. It's generally a good idea to keep the cell temp below 60C. The cells I used specifically can handle temps down to -20C. I show the battery temperature periodically throughout the video and it stays at a comfortable 33C. The cells and conductors are sized large enough to keep resistance and heat build up to a minimum in normal operating conditions, and the side panels incorporate forced air intakes to help actively cool the battery while driving hard.
Have you thought about a small solar panel on the roof to somewhat trickle charge it just an idea and not entirely sure if it would work with your batteries but just an idea
Amazing range.
That’s a decent range 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
It took you 44:43 minutes to travel 20 miles, my daily commute. Averaging city streets traffic and stop lights, used 38% battery!
Congrats on the success of your build, im inspired since i already have an me1616, a couple dozen 32650, and a sevcon that would probably be replace with a kelly. Did you say 40 acres 😯, lol
Absolutely amazing work. Thank you for sharing.
I am wondering of the chain off of the motor is overheating? I tried a chain off of the electric motor in my electric SXS conversion setup and it was very loud and it overheated quick. I ended up switching to a belt. I am curious as to if the chain is working out on your build. Cheers!
Yes, it's working fine. Chains can tend to get warm to the touch, some aren't too bad and some can get to the point where you can't hold onto it for long with bare hands, especially when they're first installed and begin to stretch out. But they shouldn't be smoking or red hot, of course. All chains make some noise, but if the noise and heat is excessive (ie more than it was with the engine - not sure how yours is/was set up) then you've got either an alignment, lube, or slack issue. Misalignment and tension are the biggest contributors. Whether a motor is electric or ICE has 0 affect on how a chain performs if the torque specs at the motor/engine shafts are similar. If the new motor produces more torque, then that could be an issue. More torque would probably require a beefier chain (I used a 520 o ring chain). But if it's running fine with a belt and it's not getting wet or jammed with debris or anything, then I'd just keep running that.
Great Build - Very Clean -
Как то странно батарея расходуется !?
но трасса огонь !
как для багги создана )))
если я правильно понял из видео
то дорога по которой вы проехали тестовый заезд в 50= км проходит по вашей земле
то это круто !!!
тут нет полиции что бы помешать вам тестировать ваш автомобиль )))
How strange the battery is consumed!?
but the track is fire!
how it was created for a buggy)))
if I understood correctly from the video
then the road on which you drove a test run of 50 = km passes through your land
then it's cool!!!
there are no police here to stop you from testing your car)))
Man, I love your builds... I was wondering, does your particular Kelly controller support "RELEASE THROTTLE REGEN"? Since coasting is not particularly useful on a Kart, this would put back more amps in the battery every time you release the throttle, versus using brake regen, just like in a Tesla. This would also diminish brake pads wear as you would not have to use the brakes just to reduce speed... something to try.
What do you do with all your electric toys? Do you keep them, or sell them?
Nice fire roads in your area to ride your creations...
Cheers
Dan
Yes, and regenerative braking.
Your skills rule dude!
Imagine having this as a doomsday buggy. Take some solar panels with you and you can eventually travel some distance 😂
Hi James - What resources (books, UA-cam) did you learn all this from? Thanks!
Nice build
What a great build!
Damn! I really love this project. but I have the impression that the buggy tends to drift a little bit when you turn the steering wheel.
Otherwise great project. Bravo James! 👏🏾👏🏾
Thanks. It steers as good as anything I've driven prior until the lsd locks up (as it should), then understeer happens if I'm not giving enough throttle to spin both wheels - but that's technically 'drifting' when turning. Understeer happens with every solid axle kart or atv, we just overcome it but using more hp to spin the ass around. At least the lsd eliminates it when driving normally. I guess I'm a bit confused about what you mean. I did mention the buggy sways when driving fast on loose rock though, as does any other vehicle I've taken on that access road. It's like driving on marbles.
About 53 MPH - 85 KMH is a nice speed! How is it on torque going uphill?
Fantastic project man well done! Your building skills and attention to detail are inspiring, thank you for sharing!
Masterful Indeed....
this work need more likes 100%/ Great job man!!! Tell me please how much money you spend for all parts. Thank you/
🇬🇧Well just as I thought! You are an 💯amazing builder James!!🤘😎🤘⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐what an inspiring creation!!! Thank You for all you do!!
How much did it cost / where did you source your battery from ??
Wow awesome range, way more than I was expecting for something this size/weight. What app are you using to monitor the battery voltage? Is it one for your BMS? Thanks!
Whoops, just rewatched the battery build vid and you showed it, thanks!
This thing is awesome. I watched the build as well. If you don't mind sharing, approx. how much did it cost you in parts to build?
Thanks. Roughly $7k CAD. About a third of the cost of Polaris' electric Kinetic, which has a similar power to weight ratio but this buggy gets around 10 km more range per charge with a slightly smaller battery because its a couple hundred lbs lighter.
I'm always surprised about your projects. How do you design the chassis, what calculations does it involve? Could you recommend a book or some source where I can learn to design and produce such awesome structures please?
Follow this guy, his content is great and needs more exposure - he has everything you need: ua-cam.com/users/JugadMachine
@@JamesBiggar
Thank you very much James. Good luck with your next projects!
Hi, when will you upload the plans? I'm looking forward to buying them.
Sorry for the wait. I was going to post them a couple of weeks ago, but decided to wait until I upgrade the suspension. It's the only thing I'm not really happy with. Rear shocks should be 100lb stiffer and the front should be 100lb softer, and I want them all to be a couple inches longer to raise the ground clearance a bit. Once that's done and I'm happy with it, then I'll share the plans.
Did you do anything for security of the buggy? So people can't just drive away with it or try and just throw it in the back of a trailer or truck and take off? It's a lot of money for a project like this, and I hear stories of them getting stolen way too often - but not as much as sports bikes getting stolen, but still!
Don't you think you underrated the battery for the engine performance? Because it seems. The engine can reach 24kW cont. but your battery pack optimal discarge rate is around ~0.8C-1C, so the baterry power output should perform optimally around 11.2kW-14kW. The voltage drops much above ~150A. For the battery life think about that to limiting the Amperage/Performance.
Nope. I'm not sure why people make these wild guesses about the batt's c rate based on voltage drop, but it's much higher than that. You need to look at or at least ask for the factory specs before jumping to conclusions. The LFP cells are rated for 3C (18A) continuous discharge and 60A peak, and to last at least 2000 cycles at their continuous rating. I'm not the least bit concerned about their lifespan. At 18A cont * 24P = 432A. At 102.4V * 384A = 44.2 kW continuous. The voltage drop is exactly what it should be for these and LFP in general. These are not NCM and perform very differently. You just need to compare discharge charts to understand. NCM aren't designed for a high voltage drop. Voltage cut-off is typically above 2.5V. Not the case for most LFP. Voltage cut-off is 2V, and they reach nowhere near that. These cells will and were expected to drop ~0.5V each under a 3C load. NCM might be half of that, and there's a good reason why. These LFP's can output more power (not energy) per unit of size because of the simple fact that with batt tech you can have either big energy or big power or a little of both - but not a lot of both. More power output = higher voltage drop. Higher c-rate = more voltage drop. Just compare these with the M50lt's I'm using for the bike. M50lt's are half the weight/size, roughly the same capacity, but can only deliver barely more than half the continuous current despite being nearly twice as energy dense. ~0.5V drop per cell from my pack = roughly 10V total at continuous current is what they should be doing and is exactly what we're seeing in the video. They are fine.
As I pointed out to another commenter who assumed the same thing: "the amount of voltage drop depends on the sum voltage and current as well as bad connections or improperly sized conductors, but if the latter two check out then whether or not the voltage sag is technically 'bad' depends on the cell design and chemistry. They're not all created equal, and the 'general' rule of limiting voltage drop to
Major dude.
49.7 miles per charge??? Nice.🎉
And not because i think its really important....but had you tried your top speed with it yet??
How much would you charge to build one for someone ?
Will you get it registered to make it street legal?
To get more range have you ever though putting another 14KW battery and connect it parallel to the other battery? (positive to positive and negative to negative) that should give you a long range
Lol, I built the battery. If there were more space for larger p groups, then there would be larger p groups. This isn't for cruising though. It's a kart built for a track. This test is really just for documentation purposes so that folks can better gauge what they need for cap for their own diy personal vehicle projects based on power vs weight. This range is far more than what's required for time trials on the track. The track is less than a km long lol. If I were to build a buggy for cruising the trails then it would take the form of a sxs that has more room for more battery and range.
@@JamesBiggar your video was awesome and your craftsmanship and fabrication was just as awesome - I was really just asking would it work in theory more than it was a suggestion, I don’t word things very well sometimes lol
In theory yes. You can expect to use a certain amount of energy per km with a given weight and speed (more specifically the avg power used to reach and maintain the target speed). Energy is measured in watt hours (amp hrs * volts). More parallel connections (amp hrs) and/or more series connections (volts) will increase the total watt hours and subsequently increase the range at the same speed and power.
Well Done.
How much would building one cost
I dont know if i missed it....but did you mention your total build time from start to on road/trail??
Maybe when you give a little entertainment to other people for your work, maybe there are some people there who want to try😁
Great Work.
I love these videos, I find it hard to square the speed with how fast it looks, I regularly ride my EUC at 40kmph and it doesn't feel as fast as this looks. I'm assuming thats from the wide angle lens from the gopro.
Not sure. Past POV drive footage that I've shot with the Hero 5 looks super slow, slower than what it feels on the bikes. I hated using it, too underwhelming. But the Hero 10 that I used for this seems about right to me.
Did a bit of searching and apparently it's caused by the frame rate (60fps). Called the fast-forward effect. It only looks faster because most film and video we've seen in our lives is shot at 24-30 fps and we've become accustomed to the 'micro-jitters' as one user explained it at the link below. We hardly ever saw 60fps without fast-forwarding, so when we do see a video shot with the fluidity of a higher frame rate then our brains automatically assume it's being sped up. I assume past videos seemed slow to me because I probably recorded
Really great work! Dare I ask, how much did it cost to build?
Thanks. No exact figure but roughly $6-7K, about 1/4 the cost of an XP Kinetic.
@@JamesBiggar -Your channel is the best in the world ..
That really cool dude, very nice Ur a Very talented man really nice vid, and I deffo pressed the bell 💯👌👍
A total mass of this car?
where are u located? and can we be friends LOL ... Love this project man
Will the plans for this be available on your website?
Yes, not sure exactly when though. I was hoping last week but I've been backed up with other work. I'll let you guys know when they're ready though.
On the road it seems to require about 15 KW to maintain 80 kph, which seems like a lot. Any idea what the motor efficiency and drive train losses are? Does the differential get hot?
It's actually using what it should to maintain speed - how much it uses depends on the gradient. I point to better references below and explain the #'s. But tldr, the range ultimately speaks for itself.
Nothing gets hot, everything is cooled and the diff is full of fluid and working fine. There's a link for the ME1616 dyno chart below, provided by thunderstruck-ev.com, showing the motor is around 92% efficient. I don't have a dyno to test power output at the wheel but we don't really need one to get a fair estimate on overall efficiency. The moments in the video where you see me doing >80 km/h are when I'm either climbing or descending a steep hill - there are brief moments where I'm only using around 10 kW to maintain that speed on level ground, which is what it should be using. Video does not do hill grade any justice for some reason, and bear in mind there's a 5 sec delay in the bms display. It's not hard to notice the switch from flat to hill by watching whether or not I have to accelerate or decelerate to maintain speed. But it's hard to say exactly what the grade is without measuring to know exactly what the power use should be, so I ignore those #'s. Even just a 2-3% grade, which is hardly noticeable on camera let alone in the buggy, increases the power requirement by almost 30% to maintain speed. The hills in the video are between 5-15%. At 29:12 I begin climbing the steepest, which is technically the 'back' west side of the St. John river bank. The river itself is another quarter to half a km away from where I turn off onto the access road by the TC highway. It only takes around 18-20 kW at the most to climb and maintain 75+ km/h. But again, it's hard to guess the grade exactly and I'm on and off the throttle climbing and descending sometimes faster than the bms can keep up, so it's hard to gauge efficiency that way with certainty.
For better perspective, refer to 1:50 where I'm on one of the few stretches of reasonably level ground after climbing the hill and using 7-8 kW to maintain around 65 km/h before going over the other side. At 2:40 I use just 4-5 kW to maintain around 60-63 km/h on more level ground before hitting the trail. At 27:35 I'm using 6-7 kW to maintain around 65 km/h on probably the longest stretch of level road.
The buggy and me together weigh 1207 lb (547 kg, specs in the description), with an effective projected frontal area of around 0.5-0.7 sq.m. Using 4-5 kW to maintain 60 km/h, or 7-8 kW to maintain 65 km/h, or 8-9 kW to maintain 70 km/h on reasonably level ground (0-3% grade) means the buggy is overall around 75-80% efficient (see calculator below). Even looking at the #'s from the steepest hill climb at 29:40, using around 20 kW to climb a 10-15% grade works out to a slightly higher eff of around 85%. Of course, efficiency isn't constant with throttle input/load, as the dyno chart for the motor shows it's most efficient >15 kW.
But ultimately, if we look at the range that I'm getting - 80 km's from a 14 kWh bank, or 5.7 km/kWh - it's right on par with most commercial ev's that range from 4-6 km/kWh. As I mentioned in the video, the Polaris Kinetic is a good comparison. So the range basically verifies the power use vs speed and the efficiency. If power use was more than it should be, then the range would be less than it should be.
www.electromotive.eu/?page_id=12&lang=en
www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images/companies/1/1616dyno.JPG?1548116909431
@@JamesBiggar Thanks for your interesting and detailed reply. I will try those links. I'm sure efficiency is also affected by the somewhat knobbly tread pattern of your tyres. In any case, it's a very impressive build, well done!
Kelly controllers are not good or efficient. I had a kelly on a IMP motor, and it would heat it up quick. VERY inefficient. I switched to an IMA inverter with lebowski brain, and now no matter what I do I can not get the motor warm. Super efficient! I love it, and I can do feild weakening, super awesome setup!
Me antojo hacer uno igualito.
What’s the acceleration like when you floor it? If it’s rly that slow I would look at gear ratios and better motors.
I think that's a bit subjective depending on who's behind the wheel. Keep in mind that I'm driving an unregistered/uninsured open wheel vehicle on public roads and trails for the video, so I'm kind of playing it safe for liability reasons...since I'm breaking the law and sharing it with the world and all. 18K views isn't anywhere near enough to compensate for the cops or Rangers impounding a $7K machine that I technically have no title for because I'm acting a fool with it lol. But if you want more context for what you're seeing before deciding if a machine like this is too slow 'for you' or not, I would look at the power use in the BMS app while I'm driving and refer to the ME1616 and gearing specs in the description. I can only speak for my own expectations, which have been exceeded. The 240-250A shown while accelerating isn't even half throttle/power. There's plenty to spare. You can use the calculator below to figure out the theoretical accel rate based on mass and max starting torque. This has the same power to weight ratio as a RZR RS1. It's ~300lb lighter and 2X the power of a Ranger 500. For me, their acceleration is slow. For others, they're not. Of course, I can always change the sprocket ratio or program even more torque in the controller when I get bored of what I have now. Or I can save up for another motor and esc, then ditch the diff altogether and power each rear wheel independently with 2X the hp (140+), like a dual-motor Tesla. I'm content for now, though. Need a proper track to drive it on first.
www.omnicalculator.com/physics/acceleration
@@JamesBiggar yea I agree with all your saying, I would just love to see a vid of you flooring it for a quick acceleration test.
I'll do a 0-60 when the track's finished. Next year probably. No place local I can take it for that kind of test unless I sneak it out onto the 4-laner. In the meantime, you'll just have to rely on science and the ME1616's history of proving itself. Check out the Ghost EV. He's running two of them in his race car. They work even better in a 300 lb supermoto: ua-cam.com/video/lD6UMxvWTLI/v-deo.html
@@JamesBiggar alright sounds good, thx for the explanation.
how long do the batteries charge for?
14 days
1 hour of charge and you get 100kms of range?
What camera do you use?
Hero 5 and 10
Did you already mention the overall cost of this build?
I was curious as well. One could go to their computer and watch this video and look at the transcript. Then do a text search...
Very nice!
Great video
You should sell these I'd buy one
Интересно увидеть асфальт на сликах.
How can I add a mode selector
A 3 speed switch connected to pin 15 (I believe) from the esc, but it needs to be enabled in the software first. Kelly's user manual explains. Contact Fany at sales@kellycontroller.com if the instructions aren't clear: media.kellycontroller.com/new/KellyKLS-8080NNPSUserManualV1.13-120N-3.pdf
RealIy awesome video..I wish you can make me one of that nice lil cross kart for my birthday hehe ..lol
Nice bro 😎👌🏻
Can we get an update
ua-cam.com/video/mlgiOjCekTI/v-deo.html
85KM okish nice
What is the acceleration
Cold, dry molasses, according to some armchair experts. But I have no idea. Math says it's equivalent to a 'fast' car, and by fast I technically mean
Very nice.
Any thoughts to adding some audio to give it a custom scifi sound when you drive around, or maybe integrating in a solar panel as a battery tender/bonus range?
47:43 range
48km/60% DOD = 80 km/100% DOD, ~10 km more than a Polaris Kinetic XP.
Weight ?
1027 lb (465 kg). Similar power to weight ratio as a Polaris RXR RS1.
Can it got more that 85km/h
If I wanted to break more laws on video, yes. I can gear it and tune it to produce any speed I want, within reason. That's what gearing and a programmable esc are for. It's currently on par with most atv's and utv's. This isn't a highway machine. Shouldn't be on the asphalt with it...
@@JamesBiggar can it go 110km/h
I believe I just said that, yes. Again, with the right gearing, it can go up to 300km/h while towing a bus if I wanted it to. Would take a while to reach it, but it's possible. As it is, it suits me just fine.
@@JamesBiggar oh
Super
How does this work over there in.... Canada?? In the Netherlands you are not even allowed to have an electric motor on your bicycle if you rigged it up yourself and can drive it without using the paddles. Because when not moving your feet means it is not a bicycle and in case of an accident with the bicycle the general insurrance of a person is used to pay for that. When you drive a moped or something it needs to be a registered powered vehicle that needs it's own insurrance. And that is only possible if it has been tested etc. for this specific type of vehicle and also needs its dedicated insurrance for this vehicle. This all sucks a bit because it makes life less fun. This county is small and we have a lot of people here in the west of it so I guess that there are more strickt rules compared to your place regarding home made stuff. And if there are rules, nobody cares about them there in those remote places maybe?
Don't need to register or insure off road vehicles here unless you leave your property with them. They have to be registered and insured for public trails and highways. Whether or not it has an electric motor or gas engine is irrelevant. The reason e-bikes are limited in power and regulated so much nearly everywhere is because bicycles are not meant to be powered by motors - they're meant to be powered by humans. A human can only output a few hundred watts at a time and have a limited natural pedaling speed. The frames can only handle so much weight, and the brakes and tires aren't rated for high speeds, to name a few other reasons. E-bikes need to be fitted with motors smaller than 500W and can't be faster than 35 km/h in Canada, otherwise it needs to be inspected and tested on a dyno by an engineer and certified safe for the power and speed that it can do, and then it needs to be registered and insured as a motor driven cycle or scooter or motorcycle, whatever the case may be. The same if I wanted to drive this buggy on the highway. I would need to have it inspected and certified safe, then registered and insured. Whether or not I build it myself is irrelevant, as long as it meets basic safety and equipment standards. It doesn't, though. It needs fenders and wipers and turn signals, etc. That's why I only snuck it out on the back road this one time for testing and stayed below the speed limit. I'll be driving it on a private rally track on my own property from here on out - I've got to finish building it first, though.
@@JamesBiggar Well then I think it works similar over there . we also can do what we want on private propperty. only, most people's propperty over here ends at the front door of the house or 6 meters further if they have a driveway to park the car. in the more rural parts of our country you will.find more farms and a bit more land but nothing compared to what you have there. But as I said most people own something like 200 tot 250 square meters. meaning having a house on it with a little patch of garden begind it and maybe also a few meters infront of the house. And the most common houses are connected houses in a long line. so maybe 8 or 10 or 20 houses all pretty mucht the same in a line under one roof. A bit more luxury is 2 houses under one roof. Mostly mirrored in the middle. And best is the free standing house that can vary from very small to, for here, very big but even 80% of them only have just a few hundred square meters of land. I am pretty jaleous to see the space and outdoor propperty that many of you have. To me it is the greatest luxury. just a lot of freedom and space. no neighbour that is sleeping 1 meter away from you on the other side of the wall of the mirrored houses. We live in a small village 20 km near the city of Rotterdam. We have a 450 square meter piece of land and have a 2 under one roof type of house from the 30's. we love our garden and garage but still no space to have real freedom.
Patent it, hurry.
Hi
Why so loude? I mean the engine.
30 miles and still at 40%
Wheel noise covers most of your explanation for me unfortunately, so no, I didn‘t like that I‘m afraid 😏
Not sure what you mean about being afraid, but you're right - the audio sucks. Sorry. Subtitles work though.
70 km por hora é muito lento
Isso obviamente não é a velocidade máxima. Eu mostro 85 usando apenas 50% de energia. A velocidade máxima teórica é de 120 km/h com marcha 5:1. Eu dirijo pelas condições. É uma trilha pública. Eu não dirijo de forma imprudente em trilhas públicas. Você pode dirigir mais rápido em seu próprio buggy, se preferir.
Para efeito de comparação, a velocidade máxima do Polaris Ranger XP Kinetic é de apenas 100 km/h, e o buggy Honda Odyssey fl350 é de apenas 95 km/h. Em outras palavras, meu buggy caseiro tem um desempenho melhor do que os buggies comerciais de tamanho igual.
You should get in contact with Elon Musk
Is this Seth Rogan? 👀
LOL
helllooooo