That wasn't really a random tangent. He's a domain expert in evolutionary biology, and he was asked to provide context for a question which is extremely solidly within his domain.
to make real progress with christians you have to adopt the socratic method. ask questions, measure your voice. offering evidence and facts never works. arguing never works. but to calmly question what they say can move things forward amazingly fast. recently had a discussion with my dad. retired missionary and pastor, i have a seminary undergrad degree. so we talked about calvinism vs free will theology. i asked questions taking us deeper into the subject. he finally said "well the bible has passages that support both positions" to which i said exactly, why wouldn't god just tell us which position is accurate? and then i thanked him leaving it there, told him i love him, we can talk about this more later. for him to admit there are contradictory passages on his own was a huge win. i never once had to tell him the bible contradicts itself. through questions we arrived there. measure your voice carefully. remain humble and questioning, and steel man, don't straw. don't attack. question. the goal is to make someone think. on their own. and that makes a massive difference. use personal stories and be personal. it's so much more effective than offering evidence and facts which they'll just deny with magical thinking. humility plus calm go so much further than vitriol. and no one's mind is changed all at once. for me it took around 10yrs of questioning myself and looking into evidence. deconversion takes time, it's a process. small wins are chinks in the armor of magic. be patient with people and lead through questions and personal stories.
@@Trotoloko do you mean the specific contradictions between calvinism and free will theology? or biblical contradictions in general? i don't have a list of contradictions... i studied the bible for 30yrs, went to seminary. if you just read through it you'll find the contradictions. i'd have to look things up and to be honest im not going to do that, im sorry. but you can google it. just don't present a theist with a list of contradictions. there are ways to explain them away and you would need to know some theology and history and bible to understand how to approach biblical contradictions. they literally have amazingly convoluted ways of explaining why a contradiction is not a contradiction. i know this bc i was extremely devout and serious about my biblical studies and i knew exactly how to explain them away.
@@CocoTheDiamond Oh, I meant the ones regarding free will vs determinism, but yeah. I haven't studied for 30 years, but I was meant to be a priest and I read the Bible from start to finish like 5 times or so, so I know how difficult is to just remember everything, and how a burden it is if you don't have a list, which is also a boring and heavy task to do, specially being an adult with other things to worry about. Thanks a lot for the insight, tho
It's easy to claim science confirms a deity when such deity has been defined as perfect and responsible for everything from the get go. It's also conveniently invisible, judging and believers know exactly what it thinks and wants
I love how Forrest sometimes just grooves to a soundtrack of a summer blockbuster that only he can hear in his head at the beginning of a call before the insanity sets in. ❤😅❤😅
I feel like every month I find a new call in show with Forrest. I think it’s 4 or 5 now also you know Forrest is a proper scientist because he was arguing against something debunking a myth. Because the evidence couldn’t be used to go against that myth so he didn’t do what many others do and try to contort the evidence to fit a preconceived notion, but he followed the evidence even if it wasn’t beneficial to his standpoint. That is a true scientist!
You can disprove The Great Flood some specific things about Adam and Eve but to disprove Adam and Eve entirely is as close to impossible as you can get.
@@baseupp12 Adam & Eve are obviously allegorical. Genetics 100% disproves that mankind had a genetic bottleneck down to 2 people at any time in the past 10,000 years. The allegorical story is massively more appropriate as a description of Truths about the nature of humanity than the shallow and vapid "literal" cartoon version that is preached from pulpits around the country.
pretty much any argument against anything in the bible will be answered like what forrest said "nuh-uh cause magic" that's every argument i had with my dad until recently. i changed tactic. arguing doesn't help. but personal conversation can move things forward. i have a theology-philosophy degree. so i've had convo's about theology itself and demonstrated how theological positions can be contradictory - for example we talked one night about calvinism vs free will theology and how there are verses which support both positions. i was able to point out that why doesn't god just tell us which position to take ?and why are there contradictory passages? asked as questions. not made as statements. my dad was then able for the first time ever to admit that the bible has contradictory passages. it was a huge win. huge. he came to that conclusion. he was the one to say "there are passages that support BOTH positions." on his own. l i adopted a questioning format... ask questions, make fewer statements. measure your voice and remain calm. and when the convo is over i said "let's leave it there for tonight, we can talk more later, thanks for talking to me about this, i love you" huge win to handle the convo like that. people listen when you're calm and when you ask questions instead of making statements. the goal is to make someone think, not throw all this evidence at them that they can dismiss with magical thinking. adopt a socratic methodology. don't straw man their position. steel man it to show your own integrity. speak with a calm and humble questioning. and listen carefully to their answers. demonstrate a curiosity about their beliefs. challenge belief with quesrions, not assertions and evidence. when you're calm and relatable people really listen.
@@baseupp12Was there a talking serpent that told Eve to eat the fruit? Where’s the garden that god supposedly created? Can you prove that Adam was mad from dirt? Or that Eve was made from his rib? What historical text or artifact shows when Adam and Eve existed? Why isn’t the story of Adam and Eve part of general history or even biology?
The caller sounded mentally drained and desperate for a magic bullet to disprove some agitating people in his life. Chromosome-2 sounds like a good enough observation for his sanity.
Your statement makes no sense; we _are_ apes. Our common ancestor between extant great apes was also an ape, so in that sense it’s true, but bonobos also descended from these apes, so we are not special.
I never understood "fused chromosomes" argument ... it is so weak ... Human chromosomes could have fused after Man was created (initially created with 48 chromosomes, the same number as Great Apes have, later, two chromosomes fused) ... so how this is an argument for evolution ? I don't get it ... The same with geological column argument ... how on Earth geological column proves the theory of evolution (from single cell to human) ? First, the simplest life forms were "planted" on Earth ... and then the more complex ones ... which perfectly makes sense, among other things, to build an ecosystem / food chain ...
'Disproving' is such a bad way to start a discussion/debate. I would grant the use of the definition of evidence as: information that informs a belief. This way, two people with different views are on equal footing. They present their evidence for god, I present my evidence for no gods. If we do not change our beliefs, then so be it.
Have you supplicated yourself on bended knee and humbly asked to receive the blessings of the one objectively TRUE living God Abira and for Him to come into you?? Be renewed in this life and the next once you renouce your evidently nonexistent FALSE "God" and it's cult of demoniacal idolatrous followers. Are you ready to accept the invitation of the one objectively TRUE living God Abira to live eternally in His paradise in His loving arms? 🤣
also...this entire video is just intellectual patting each other on the back without any real meaning. Any rational person doesn't even consider old stories that mix prose, poetry, mythology with some events and people who were current at that time........and crackpots attempts to challenge actual science/history. Are you going to next use chromosomes to disprove Odin, Zeus, Zoraster, Ra, etc? Why not? Its just as ludicrous. but go ahead and continue your showing off of your pseudo-intellectualism and patting yourselves on the back and telling each other how much more intelligent you are than others. OR...you could grow the F up and actually apply your self-described intellect to things that actually matter.
@@chandie5298 So much ANGER. Here's the GOOD news! The one objectively TRUE living God Numbakulla can take that anger and frustration from you. You must stop denying the existence of the one objectively TRUE living God Numbakulla and accept him as your Lord and savior. Numbakulla explains all to all in His paradise of peace and solace enveloped in His all encompassing divine light. Will you accept omnipotent omniscient omnipresent omnibenevolent Numbakulla's invitation and be renewed in this life and the next?? REPENT! 🤣
@@chandie5298you could grow up and just quit crying about things you dont like. Also, the people in this video do have real jobs and work on other things that are also important in addition to helping stop the spread of hateful beliefs.
God I love how Forrest just goes off on random tangents when asked biological questions.
That wasn't really a random tangent. He's a domain expert in evolutionary biology, and he was asked to provide context for a question which is extremely solidly within his domain.
Yes! These are the interesting calls where Forrest gets to talk about chemistry and biology.
to make real progress with christians you have to adopt the socratic method. ask questions, measure your voice.
offering evidence and facts never works. arguing never works. but to calmly question what they say can move things forward amazingly fast.
recently had a discussion with my dad. retired missionary and pastor, i have a seminary undergrad degree. so we talked about calvinism vs free will theology. i asked questions taking us deeper into the subject. he finally said "well the bible has passages that support both positions" to which i said exactly, why wouldn't god just tell us which position is accurate? and then i thanked him leaving it there, told him i love him, we can talk about this more later.
for him to admit there are contradictory passages on his own was a huge win. i never once had to tell him the bible contradicts itself. through questions we arrived there.
measure your voice carefully. remain humble and questioning, and steel man, don't straw. don't attack. question.
the goal is to make someone think. on their own. and that makes a massive difference. use personal stories and be personal. it's so much more effective than offering evidence and facts which they'll just deny with magical thinking.
humility plus calm go so much further than vitriol. and no one's mind is changed all at once.
for me it took around 10yrs of questioning myself and looking into evidence. deconversion takes time, it's a process. small wins are chinks in the armor of magic. be patient with people and lead through questions and personal stories.
At least your dad has the conversation. A lot of people won't even do that (from experience). But you're definitely right about everything else
Can you pass a list of those contradictory texts, please?
Cool story! Wish all Theists would accept there's Contraditions!
@@Trotoloko
do you mean the specific contradictions between calvinism and free will theology? or biblical contradictions in general?
i don't have a list of contradictions... i studied the bible for 30yrs, went to seminary. if you just read through it you'll find the contradictions.
i'd have to look things up and to be honest im not going to do that, im sorry. but you can google it.
just don't present a theist with a list of contradictions. there are ways to explain them away and you would need to know some theology and history and bible to understand how to approach biblical contradictions. they literally have amazingly convoluted ways of explaining why a contradiction is not a contradiction. i know this bc i was extremely devout and serious about my biblical studies and i knew exactly how to explain them away.
@@CocoTheDiamond Oh, I meant the ones regarding free will vs determinism, but yeah.
I haven't studied for 30 years, but I was meant to be a priest and I read the Bible from start to finish like 5 times or so, so I know how difficult is to just remember everything, and how a burden it is if you don't have a list, which is also a boring and heavy task to do, specially being an adult with other things to worry about.
Thanks a lot for the insight, tho
Great video and great questions, thanks for posting.
It's easy to claim science confirms a deity when such deity has been defined as perfect and responsible for everything from the get go. It's also conveniently invisible, judging and believers know exactly what it thinks and wants
Thank you.
I love how Forrest sometimes just grooves to a soundtrack of a summer blockbuster that only he can hear in his head at the beginning of a call before the insanity sets in. ❤😅❤😅
I feel like every month I find a new call in show with Forrest. I think it’s 4 or 5 now also you know Forrest is a proper scientist because he was arguing against something debunking a myth. Because the evidence couldn’t be used to go against that myth so he didn’t do what many others do and try to contort the evidence to fit a preconceived notion, but he followed the evidence even if it wasn’t beneficial to his standpoint.
That is a true scientist!
LOTS of things disprove Adam & Eve -- and the "Great Flood."
You can disprove The Great Flood some specific things about Adam and Eve but to disprove Adam and Eve entirely is as close to impossible as you can get.
@@baseupp12 Adam & Eve are obviously allegorical. Genetics 100% disproves that mankind had a genetic bottleneck down to 2 people at any time in the past 10,000 years. The allegorical story is massively more appropriate as a description of Truths about the nature of humanity than the shallow and vapid "literal" cartoon version that is preached from pulpits around the country.
pretty much any argument against anything in the bible will be answered like what forrest said "nuh-uh cause magic"
that's every argument i had with my dad until recently. i changed tactic. arguing doesn't help.
but personal conversation can move things forward. i have a theology-philosophy degree. so i've had convo's about theology itself and demonstrated how theological positions can be contradictory - for example we talked one night about calvinism vs free will theology and how there are verses which support both positions. i was able to point out that why doesn't god just tell us which position to take ?and why are there contradictory passages? asked as questions. not made as statements.
my dad was then able for the first time ever to admit that the bible has contradictory passages. it was a huge win. huge. he came to that conclusion. he was the one to say "there are passages that support BOTH positions." on his own.
l i adopted a questioning format... ask questions, make fewer statements. measure your voice and remain calm. and when the convo is over i said "let's leave it there for tonight, we can talk more later, thanks for talking to me about this, i love you"
huge win to handle the convo like that.
people listen when you're calm and when you ask questions instead of making statements.
the goal is to make someone think, not throw all this evidence at them that they can dismiss with magical thinking.
adopt a socratic methodology. don't straw man their position. steel man it to show your own integrity. speak with a calm and humble questioning. and listen carefully to their answers. demonstrate a curiosity about their beliefs. challenge belief with quesrions, not assertions and evidence.
when you're calm and relatable people really listen.
@@baseupp12only because christians always have "nuh-uh cause magic" as an answer to anything. it's better to calmly question - socratic method.
@@baseupp12Was there a talking serpent that told Eve to eat the fruit? Where’s the garden that god supposedly created? Can you prove that Adam was mad from dirt? Or that Eve was made from his rib? What historical text or artifact shows when Adam and Eve existed? Why isn’t the story of Adam and Eve part of general history or even biology?
The caller sounded mentally drained and desperate for a magic bullet to disprove some agitating people in his life.
Chromosome-2 sounds like a good enough observation for his sanity.
It's magic that we even exist at all.
Kent Miller as great video of Chromosome 2. And his a Christian
After cain and abel (rip) how did humans procreate other than mating with their mom
😊
Gabe he/him TX pmsl more likely adam and eve over adam and steve
The MAGA movement proves we descend from apes.
Your statement makes no sense; we _are_ apes. Our common ancestor between extant great apes was also an ape, so in that sense it’s true, but bonobos also descended from these apes, so we are not special.
The maga cult proves almost half the US population are gullible fools.
@@exceptionallyaverage3075
That, sadly, is evidently TRUE😪
More Likely they descended from MAGAts!
I never understood "fused chromosomes" argument ... it is so weak ... Human chromosomes could have fused after Man was created (initially created with 48 chromosomes, the same number as Great Apes have, later, two chromosomes fused) ... so how this is an argument for evolution ? I don't get it ...
The same with geological column argument ... how on Earth geological column proves the theory of evolution (from single cell to human) ?
First, the simplest life forms were "planted" on Earth ... and then the more complex ones ... which perfectly makes sense, among other things, to build an ecosystem / food chain ...
'Disproving' is such a bad way to start a discussion/debate.
I would grant the use of the definition of evidence as: information that informs a belief. This way, two people with different views are on equal footing. They present their evidence for god, I present my evidence for no gods. If we do not change our beliefs, then so be it.
the fact that they list their pronouns immediately calls into question if they actually embrace rationality and science.
Have you supplicated yourself on bended knee and humbly asked to receive the blessings of the one objectively TRUE living God Abira and for Him to come into you??
Be renewed in this life and the next once you renouce your evidently nonexistent FALSE "God" and it's cult of demoniacal idolatrous followers.
Are you ready to accept the invitation of the one objectively TRUE living God Abira to live eternally in His paradise in His loving arms?
🤣
also...this entire video is just intellectual patting each other on the back without any real meaning. Any rational person doesn't even consider old stories that mix prose, poetry, mythology with some events and people who were current at that time........and crackpots attempts to challenge actual science/history.
Are you going to next use chromosomes to disprove Odin, Zeus, Zoraster, Ra, etc? Why not? Its just as ludicrous.
but go ahead and continue your showing off of your pseudo-intellectualism and patting yourselves on the back and telling each other how much more intelligent you are than others.
OR...you could grow the F up and actually apply your self-described intellect to things that actually matter.
@@chandie5298
So much ANGER.
Here's the GOOD news!
The one objectively TRUE living God Numbakulla can take that anger and frustration from you.
You must stop denying the existence of the one objectively TRUE living God Numbakulla and accept him as your Lord and savior.
Numbakulla explains all to all in His paradise of peace and solace enveloped in His all encompassing divine light.
Will you accept omnipotent omniscient omnipresent omnibenevolent Numbakulla's invitation and be renewed in this life and the next??
REPENT!
🤣
@@chandie5298debunking Christianity matters because it's the main religion that is still fucking us up, you dunce
@@chandie5298you could grow up and just quit crying about things you dont like. Also, the people in this video do have real jobs and work on other things that are also important in addition to helping stop the spread of hateful beliefs.