I just got a 5050 mkiii 1/4” two track to mix down from my Tascam 90-16 1” 16 track machine (before I was mixing down to pro tools from the 16 track). It’s so beautiful and it runs so quietly! This is my first commercial grade machine (the Tascam is somewhat commercial but definitely not at the Otari’s level) I’m super excited to edit on it!
Definitely record all my tracks onto my Otari MX-5050 Biii-2 tape recorder. Great video content. Plugins are fine but they try to emulate the pure warm sound of the past. Great video!
Thanks for watching Alessio! This was a really fun experiment. I plan to do more of these experiments in order to get your DAW sounds "out of the box" and create a more unique sonic fingerprint. I want to try more tape formats, like cassette and VHS. If everybody is using the same VIs, everybody starts sounding the same. So the question is, how can we address with this without spending a ton of money and having fun at the same time? This is my solution :-)
Very nice Otari deck you have there! As well as studio in general. I have an older 70’s Otari 2 track and an MX5050 8 track that recently had balanced transformers installed on i/o. Love that 2 track though! Cheers!
I have the very same Otari. Wonderful machines, and if we'll maintained and set up properly, they definitely add a special flavor to music. To me, nothing sounds better than recording live or vinyl to reel-to-reel.
I use a similar process to this, but kind of simplified, I record and mix on my DAW, then using two separate computers I output the mix to the Otari Mx5050 but I don't record on tape, I send the output of the Otari as two separate mono tracks into my audio interface on a second computer (after gain staging both in/out signals). And then I record the two mono tracks back into my DAW. Once this is done I proceed to master and to my opinion the results are great specially when real bass, guitars are part of the mix along virtual instruments. I think is music genre dependent and what kind of sound one wants to achieve. Also CD quality 16 bits 44.100Khz has already more dynamic range than tape, it is a fact. So I wouldn't recommend recording in tape because you are losing quality. My goal is to get a nice saturation from the analog gut of the machine as the signal passes thru. Anyway, nice video man!
I've been using my Otari 8 track to soften brittle DAW tracks. I record mostly bluegrass. Banjo mostly. With 8 XLR ins and outs, often all instruments are warmed at 15 ips. The Ampex 456 is my fav media.
The strings made a big difference... the percussion I'd go with the DAW. One thing you may want to try is running the strings 100% digital but, adding a stereo tape delay Left send to Right and looped back Right send to Left-- you'd be amazed at the rich lush thickness you get. I GUARANTEE you will love it. A keyboard player taught me that.
It could be something with your machine's input or output amps. All tape has hiss, obviously, but I found this Otari to have a pretty low noise floor. However, it was just serviced by Adrian Pro Audio. He's really good, one of the original 80s Tascam techs (if the rumor is true). So, this machine was sounding cherry. adrianproaudio.com/
just like plugins have tons of knobs, tape machines have a lot of variables. you were using (new?) SM911, but different tape formulations have different noise and compression characteristics. The 468 or 900 will sound a little different. how was the machine biased? is it an NAB or IEC machine? the recording level will also affect the amount of tape effect you get quite a bit. would be interesting to run a more controlled test with some test sweeps to establish where the "baseline" performance of the deck is, and then vary the recording level and tape formulation to see how that affects the result.
I noticed a little more compression on the tape version and the instruments sound less distinct on tape... some instruments would benefit but the whole mix sounds better just virtual instruments...
Yeah I agree that there's overall more clarity with just the straight VI right from the DAW. There's more mush with the tape. I guess it really depends on what you're going for. Some instruments I really like the tape sound and others not so much.
Good idea, I'll try and do that in the future. Though I think it's pretty easy to hear the differences here. I mean it's a pretty dramatic sounding difference if you watch in HD. HD is the key. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Most significant for me was the keyboard sound which seemed to gain so much more texture and decay from going through the Otari. It had more of a big church pipe organ sound. Preferred some of the percussion also. Wasn't overly impressed by the bass notes if im honest. I wonder what would happen on a mastering machine running at 30ips. Just to add I love reel to reel too. For me, It is quite simply the coolest best sounding format. I am looking for a really good 15ips 2 track autoreverse machine currently. In the states you are luckier with more availability, over the pond prices are super high due to the rarity. Looking foward to sitting infront of my glowing tubes and a real nice 10.5" playing me beautiful music. Thanks for sharing a very interesting comparison.
I like to use big transformer sounding outboard gear like the Neve tape modules (love them for this type of thing), Pultecs, Neumann style summing mixer, LA-2A’s etc. I’ve even ran mixes through my Avedis and API mic pres. Tape is amazing but too much of a hassle unless its the final mixdown. Easier just to patch in outboard gear or run through it while tracking. Just my opinion:)
Nearly anything in the way of outboard analog gear that you can patch into your workflow can be some fantastic signal enhancement. You're right, tape is a lot of extra hassle, but it is fun if you have the time!
if you record direct to tape it makes a bigger impact as tape compression kicks in. I find that analog recording on multitrack gives the most realistic image. cheers!
waiting to get my Otari MX 5050-8 MK III back, which is in maintenence. Yours is a very nice machine, this 2 track is a beast! What I have intented to say is that when you use multritrack on tape the ("stereo") image is the most impressive I have heard. It is like the live sound. have a great day cheers.
did you just take the signal from the RTR head before it records, if that makes sense? (i.e. having the signal from your DAW pass through the 'electrical circuit' of the RTR, or actually having the tape RECORD the signal, then playing it back on tape and into your DAW?)
I recorded the signal to tape. Then, took the tape recording and recorded it back into my DAW through an Avid 192 audio interface at a high bit and sample rate. It's the tape itself that creates all the saturation and compression.
@@ErikHawk thank you for responding!!! I was surprised to not notice a huge difference, albiet on headphones. i expected more 'glue' on the mix. do you think its worth doing, and do you ever really do it? im working on an album and the first song is done, debating getting a RTR for htis purpose.
Tape a bit warmer and mix sounds glued. Works better on the more twinkly instruments. Definitely not worth the trouble. Perhaps a master mixed to tape and back would do the trick
Yeah, it probably isn't worth the hassle, especially since the tape emulation plug-ins by Waves and UA sound amazing. But still, it was a fun experiment!
Definitely removes a lot of the piercing "metalness" of some of the instrumentation, which can actually be disturbing to the ears. This is not the first time of have heard such a comparison, but it is the first time I have seen it done in this fashion. Audio-wise, it was very educational.
Thanks for watching. Very glad you found it educational. I'm planning on doing some more analog tape production techniques soon. Tape really can sound amazing and unique, plus it can be fun to actually use physical tape, so different than just working in your DAW these days.
They both sound great. The speakers I listened to them though I really don't hear much of a difference to tell you the truth. Personally, I prefer tape because to me it usually has a really fat sound in the bass. That's a very nice machine, by the way.
Thanks for watching. There is a significant sonic difference between tape and the high resolution digital recording. Of course, having really good speakers or headphones will help you hear the difference more accurately. Tape adds compression that can make the bass frequencies sound fatter and punchier.
@@ErikHawk The Mk III has rounded heads on the RECORD, PLAY, STOP, REWIND, and FAST FWD buttons. Also the tape counter on the Mk III has more memory choices. The Mk II only has MEMORY and RESET on the counter.
hi do you know about the button inside to change the speed to 3 speeds not many know of this i have a otari deck my one is very ill i don't thing i can fix it and i am hot with reel to reel decks
Yeah, I agree. Especially with today's software emulations that sound so great and are so fast and easy to use. I do like these old tape machines, but they're just toys at this point, they're not critical for getting actual work done. It's like my vintage 80s Porsche in the garage (I wish) that I just drive on the weekends, but I take the Honda Civic for my daily commute to the office 😁
I’m gonna be real here-I hear zero difference between either of the two. Given that the average second hand Otari costs within the range 10-20 thousand pounds/dollars, I don’t know if all that money gives you any perceptible results. That’s just my opinion though…
Thanks for watching and commenting. I think the sound difference is pretty noticeable. But yeah, a good reel-to-reel tape machine can cost several thousand dollars. This one was about $3,500. So this costs a lot more than a tape emulation plug-in from, say, Waves, on sale for $29. But then, an actual tape machine is a lot more fun than a software plug-in. However, that said, when I’m in a rush I use the tape emulation plug-in!
I think your right. I own a Otari MX5050 MKIII-8 in my home studio, and find the tape recordings really do have a warm sound over the digital DAW. And, there are many good uses for the DAWs, but depending on the sound card in the computer can limit the quality. 🎶🎹🎛
I just got a 5050 mkiii 1/4” two track to mix down from my Tascam 90-16 1” 16 track machine (before I was mixing down to pro tools from the 16 track). It’s so beautiful and it runs so quietly! This is my first commercial grade machine (the Tascam is somewhat commercial but definitely not at the Otari’s level) I’m super excited to edit on it!
Definitely record all my tracks onto my Otari MX-5050 Biii-2 tape recorder. Great video content. Plugins are fine but they try to emulate the pure warm sound of the past. Great video!
Nice Compression on the tape
beautiful
Thanks for watching Alessio! This was a really fun experiment. I plan to do more of these experiments in order to get your DAW sounds "out of the box" and create a more unique sonic fingerprint. I want to try more tape formats, like cassette and VHS. If everybody is using the same VIs, everybody starts sounding the same. So the question is, how can we address with this without spending a ton of money and having fun at the same time? This is my solution :-)
Very nice Otari deck you have there! As well as studio in general. I have an older 70’s Otari 2 track and an MX5050 8 track that recently had balanced transformers installed on i/o. Love that 2 track though! Cheers!
Very cool! You're fortunate to have an Otari, love these machines. Thanks for commenting.
I have the very same Otari. Wonderful machines, and if we'll maintained and set up properly, they definitely add a special flavor to music. To me, nothing sounds better than recording live or vinyl to reel-to-reel.
I agree! Thanks for watching and commenting.
Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to make this video! Love tape!
You're welcome, thanks for watching. I'm planning some more experiments like this for future videos, stay tuned.
I use a similar process to this, but kind of simplified, I record and mix on my DAW, then using two separate computers I output the mix to the Otari Mx5050 but I don't record on tape, I send the output of the Otari as two separate mono tracks into my audio interface on a second computer (after gain staging both in/out signals). And then I record the two mono tracks back into my DAW. Once this is done I proceed to master and to my opinion the results are great specially when real bass, guitars are part of the mix along virtual instruments. I think is music genre dependent and what kind of sound one wants to achieve. Also CD quality 16 bits 44.100Khz has already more dynamic range than tape, it is a fact. So I wouldn't recommend recording in tape because you are losing quality. My goal is to get a nice saturation from the analog gut of the machine as the signal passes thru. Anyway, nice video man!
Do you find it makes an audible difference? Would love if you have any examples!
Using a tape deck as a preamp seems like a whole lot of work that could be done with better/easier tools.
wow it is a very good idea and sound quality is much better than the virtual instrument. thanks Hawk.
Yeah, I was surprised by the results. Especially with the pad, the tape really fattened up the sound. Thanks for watching!
I've been using my Otari 8 track to soften brittle DAW tracks. I record mostly bluegrass. Banjo mostly. With 8 XLR ins and outs, often all instruments are warmed at 15 ips. The Ampex 456 is my fav media.
Oh yeah, I love the 8-track versions of this machine. You're fortunate to own one!
I've this model also. I record direct. Output to a VS2480CD to mix and affect.
Part of the analog sound is the analog mixing console, too.
The results would have been different with some analog eq for tone-shaping
The strings made a big difference... the percussion I'd go with the DAW. One thing you may want to try is running the strings 100% digital but, adding a stereo tape delay Left send to Right and looped back Right send to Left-- you'd be amazed at the rich lush thickness you get. I GUARANTEE you will love it. A keyboard player taught me that.
Great suggestion! Thanks for watching and commenting.
excellent and beyond thanks
how to you cut down on the noise???? I have a mkiii and I get a lot of noise
It could be something with your machine's input or output amps. All tape has hiss, obviously, but I found this Otari to have a pretty low noise floor. However, it was just serviced by Adrian Pro Audio. He's really good, one of the original 80s Tascam techs (if the rumor is true). So, this machine was sounding cherry. adrianproaudio.com/
i really heard it on the bass end good test thanks
Thanks a Ton man, it was great!!!
Thanks for watching. Glad you enjoyed the experiment!
just like plugins have tons of knobs, tape machines have a lot of variables. you were using (new?) SM911, but different tape formulations have different noise and compression characteristics. The 468 or 900 will sound a little different. how was the machine biased? is it an NAB or IEC machine? the recording level will also affect the amount of tape effect you get quite a bit. would be interesting to run a more controlled test with some test sweeps to establish where the "baseline" performance of the deck is, and then vary the recording level and tape formulation to see how that affects the result.
I noticed a little more compression on the tape version and the instruments sound less distinct on tape... some instruments would benefit but the whole mix sounds better just virtual instruments...
Yeah I agree that there's overall more clarity with just the straight VI right from the DAW. There's more mush with the tape. I guess it really depends on what you're going for. Some instruments I really like the tape sound and others not so much.
UA-cam does not allow us to judge the quality differences. Please send us links to the files
Good idea, I'll try and do that in the future. Though I think it's pretty easy to hear the differences here. I mean it's a pretty dramatic sounding difference if you watch in HD. HD is the key. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@ErikHawk UA-cam compresses your files to mp3 quality!
Most significant for me was the keyboard sound which seemed to gain so much more texture and decay from going through the Otari. It had more of a big church pipe organ sound. Preferred some of the percussion also. Wasn't overly impressed by the bass notes if im honest. I wonder what would happen on a mastering machine running at 30ips. Just to add I love reel to reel too. For me, It is quite simply the coolest best sounding format. I am looking for a really good 15ips 2 track autoreverse machine currently. In the states you are luckier with more availability, over the pond prices are super high due to the rarity. Looking foward to sitting infront of my glowing tubes and a real nice 10.5" playing me beautiful music. Thanks for sharing a very interesting comparison.
Thanks for watching! Yeah, 30 ips would be amazing.
30 ips cuts down the Bass.
I doubt if there are any 15ips autoreverse decks maybe 2 in the whole world
I like to use big transformer sounding outboard gear like the Neve tape modules (love them for this type of thing), Pultecs, Neumann style summing mixer, LA-2A’s etc. I’ve even ran mixes through my Avedis and API mic pres. Tape is amazing but too much of a hassle unless its the final mixdown. Easier just to patch in outboard gear or run through it while tracking. Just my opinion:)
Nearly anything in the way of outboard analog gear that you can patch into your workflow can be some fantastic signal enhancement. You're right, tape is a lot of extra hassle, but it is fun if you have the time!
@@ErikHawk Definitely!
Pads sound great on tape.
if you record direct to tape it makes a bigger impact as tape compression kicks in. I find that analog recording on multitrack gives the most realistic image. cheers!
Yes, absolutely!
waiting to get my Otari MX 5050-8 MK III back, which is in maintenence. Yours is a very nice machine, this 2 track is a beast!
What I have intented to say is that when you use multritrack on tape the ("stereo") image is the most impressive I have heard. It is like the live sound. have a great day cheers.
It made drums more punchy, you could explore using tube preamp with transformers
The tape sounds better in my opinion. Its sounds more like a "record."
did you just take the signal from the RTR head before it records, if that makes sense? (i.e. having the signal from your DAW pass through the 'electrical circuit' of the RTR, or actually having the tape RECORD the signal, then playing it back on tape and into your DAW?)
I recorded the signal to tape. Then, took the tape recording and recorded it back into my DAW through an Avid 192 audio interface at a high bit and sample rate. It's the tape itself that creates all the saturation and compression.
@@ErikHawk thank you for responding!!! I was surprised to not notice a huge difference, albiet on headphones. i expected more 'glue' on the mix. do you think its worth doing, and do you ever really do it? im working on an album and the first song is done, debating getting a RTR for htis purpose.
Tape a bit warmer and mix sounds glued. Works better on the more twinkly instruments. Definitely not worth the trouble. Perhaps a master mixed to tape and back would do the trick
Yeah, it probably isn't worth the hassle, especially since the tape emulation plug-ins by Waves and UA sound amazing. But still, it was a fun experiment!
Definitely removes a lot of the piercing "metalness" of some of the instrumentation, which can actually be disturbing to the ears. This is not the first time of have heard such a comparison, but it is the first time I have seen it done in this fashion. Audio-wise, it was very educational.
Thanks for watching. Very glad you found it educational. I'm planning on doing some more analog tape production techniques soon. Tape really can sound amazing and unique, plus it can be fun to actually use physical tape, so different than just working in your DAW these days.
They both sound great. The speakers I listened to them though I really don't hear much of a difference to tell you the truth. Personally, I prefer tape because to me it usually has a really fat sound in the bass. That's a very nice machine, by the way.
Thanks for watching. There is a significant sonic difference between tape and the high resolution digital recording. Of course, having really good speakers or headphones will help you hear the difference more accurately. Tape adds compression that can make the bass frequencies sound fatter and punchier.
The.. noise... gate... makes.... it..... feel.... like.... you're..... in...... a..... spaceship..... air .....lock........ in........ my.......... headphones
That is a Mk II model MX-5050 not a Mk III.
The tech that refurbished this deck said it's a Mk III. How can you tell it's a Mk II?
@@ErikHawk The Mk III has rounded heads on the RECORD, PLAY, STOP, REWIND, and FAST FWD buttons. Also the tape counter on the Mk III has more memory choices. The Mk II only has MEMORY and RESET on the counter.
@@guywhite1004 A ha, thank you for the info!
hi do you know about the button inside to change the speed to 3 speeds not many know of this i have a otari deck my one is very ill i don't thing i can fix it and i am
hot with reel to reel decks
Yes, my technician who refurbished this Otari told me about the switch. Really cool machine. Hope you can get yours repaired.
What AD converter do you used for this test? Great video!
The Avid 192 IO audio interface. Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed the video.
People have been using tape to add its natural tape saturation as a form of compression for decades.
hi it's good at 15 ips 30 ips speed on soundcraft 760 uk decks if you can find one
It's a good difference but it's not $3,000 good + maintenance
Yeah, I agree. Especially with today's software emulations that sound so great and are so fast and easy to use. I do like these old tape machines, but they're just toys at this point, they're not critical for getting actual work done. It's like my vintage 80s Porsche in the garage (I wish) that I just drive on the weekends, but I take the Honda Civic for my daily commute to the office 😁
I’m gonna be real here-I hear zero difference between either of the two. Given that the average second hand Otari costs within the range 10-20 thousand pounds/dollars, I don’t know if all that money gives you any perceptible results. That’s just my opinion though…
Thanks for watching and commenting. I think the sound difference is pretty noticeable. But yeah, a good reel-to-reel tape machine can cost several thousand dollars. This one was about $3,500. So this costs a lot more than a tape emulation plug-in from, say, Waves, on sale for $29. But then, an actual tape machine is a lot more fun than a software plug-in. However, that said, when I’m in a rush I use the tape emulation plug-in!
As expected I can't hear any difference whatsoever. Just came to see the tape recorder :)
I think your right. I own a Otari MX5050 MKIII-8 in my home studio, and find the tape recordings really do have a warm sound over the digital DAW. And, there are many good uses for the DAWs, but depending on the sound card in the computer can limit the quality. 🎶🎹🎛
thanks