Dubas wasn't going to change. It's nice to say that on his way out. He learned on the job and screwed the team up in the process. Shanny is to blame for entrusting boy wonder with the keys to the franchise in the first place.
As bad as Dubas was as a GM of the Leafs, Kevin Cheveldayoff, his Winnipeg Jets' counterpart, during the 5 complete seasons during the Dubas-as-Leaf-GM era, only won ONE playoff series. That for about 30 seconds or so, starting at the 21:21 mark, claimed of the Leafs' need to sign 2 or 3 d-men and a tandem goalie had meant the need to do away with allocating so much of their per-season cap hit to forwards. The Jets have had goalie issues of their own in the postseason, with Connor Hellebuyck having propelled them to a 2018 conference final but with only ONE playoff series win since that. The postseason of: - 2019 (vs the St. Louis Blues) featured the Jets go: -- 1-4 when having scored ≤2 goals -- 1-3 when having allowed ≥3 goals -- 0-1 when having allowed ≥4 goals - 2020 (vs the Flames) featured (over 4 games, with that series a best-of-5) records of 0-3 when having: --- scored ≤2 goals --- allowed ≥3 goals (in all cases having allowed ≥4 goals) - 2021 featured: -- vs the: --- Oilers, a record of: ---- 3-0 when having allowed ≥3 goals ---- 1-0 when having allowed ≥4 goals ---- 3-0 when having scored ≤2 goals --- Habs, a record of: ---- 0-3 when having allowed ≥3 goals ---- 0-2 when having allowed ≥4 goals ---- 0-3 when having scored ≤2 goals -- overall records of: --- 3-3 when having allowed ≥3 goals --- 1-2 when having allowed ≥4 goals --- 3-3 when having scored ≤2 goals Overall the Jets, following the 2018 Golden Knights-Jets conference final but before the 2022 postseason for which they'd failed to qualify, had records of, when having: -- scored ≤2 goals, 4-10 -- allowed at least: --- 3 goals, 4-9 --- 4 goals, 1-6 The 2023 postseason featured just ONE game during which the Jets had allowed under 3 goals: a 5-1 win over the Golden Knights at T-Mobile Arena. In fact that is the ONLY post-2022 playoff game the Jets have played that HASN'T featured having allowed 4 or more goals. After that playoff series the Jets' post-2018 pre-2024 record, when having: - scored ≤2 goals, was 4-13 (having gone 0-3 in that playoff series under such circumstances) - allowed at least: --- 3 goals, was 4-13 --- 4 goals, was 1-10 The April Avs-Jets playoff series featured not even ONE game during which the Jets HADN'T allowed under 4 goals, with 4 the MINIMUM # of goals, excluding empty-netters, the Jets would allow in EACH game. Although game 3 of the Jets' 2023 playoff series featured a loss in 2OT, no other post-2022 playoff game they've played has yet featured a decision in OT. The last 2 playoff series the Jets have played have, in all, featured just TWO wins and, in games decided by 1 goal, a 1-1 record. The Leafs, during the 2024 Leafs-Bruins series, featured a record of 3-1 in games decided by 1 goal, thereby having won 1 more game under such circumstances than the Jets in TOTAL have, over their past TEN playoff games, won (just TWO). The Leafs did struggle with defence during 3 of the 1st 4 games of their most-recent playoff series but significantly tightened things up after that. The Jets NEVER tightened things up defensively after game 1 even after a 7-6 win in regulation in that 1st game of their most-recent series, with 5-2, 6-2, 5-1 and 6-3 losses. All-in-all the Jets' post-2018 pre-2025 record in playoff games is, when having: - scored ≤2 goals, 4-16 (having once again lost all 3 games under such circumstances in that series) - allowed at least: --- 3 goals, was 5-17 (1-4 in the Avs-Jets series) --- 4 goals, was 2-14 (1-4 in the Avs-Jets series) How does Cheveldayoff aka Chevy still have a GM job with the Jets? If I were a full-time Jets' fan, I'd ask that very question particularly considering that among non-Jets' Canadian teams the Oilers have the longest actively serving GM via Ken Holland (2019 offseason onward). Chevy's been the Jets' GM from the 2011 offseason onward, with LIMITED playoff success. It doesn't matter the 2023-24 Jets' season featured a regular-season win-regulation loss-OT loss-shootout loss record of 52-24-5-1 (good enough for 110 points over 82 games), much better than the previous season's relevant one (46-33-2-1, good enough for 95 points and the 2nd Western Conference wildcard spot) or even the 2021-22 one during which they'd missed postseason play via a 39-32-7-4 record (just 89 points, 8 short of a playoff spot). Maybe the prospect pool the Jets have is relatively good. How so? Yes drafting and development are important but these Jets were buyers approaching the 2024 NHL Trade Deadline, with acquisitions of: - ex-Flame Sean Monahan (who the Flames drafted) from the Habs - from the Devils, ex-Flame ex-Hab Tyler Toffoli and Colin Miller (both of whom the LA Kings drafted, with Miller having only ever played, when under contract to his NHL Draft team, said team's then-AHL affiliate, the Monarchs' club based in Manchester, in the Southern New Hampshire county of Hillsborough) There's been talk in the media about whether the Jets' team founded as the Atlanta Thrashers will relocate for a 2nd time. Even if the Jets' team renamed to such in the 2010s manages to stay in the Winnipeg metro area, attendance issues have persisted following the arrival of covid into Manitoba in 2020. The Leafs may very well continue filling Scotiabank Arena for home games despite limited playoff success. Mark Chipman, an exec of Jets' ownership group True North Sports and Entertainment, claimed back in February attendance at Jets' home games would have to improve were the Jets to have a chance of remaining where they'd been long-term. Just doing a Google search under "Winnipeg Jets attendance issues" features, just on the 1st page of any such search for videos, multiple videos, all posted to UA-cam, 2 of them posted by NBC Sports' Brodie Brazil. Even if Chipman is wrong about the Jets' long-term financial sustainability via continuing to play at what was Bell MTS Place but has since been renamed Canada Life Centre, how can such issues just be ignored? Maybe season-ticket holders haven't been renewing because the Jets, aside from the 2017-18 season, haven't won 2 or more playoff series per season on a consistent enough basis. It'll be interesting to find out how the rest of the Jets' 2024 offseason goes although said offseason is, with 30 April Eastern Time the start of what would become the last game of their most recently completed season, a bit over a month old.
David Perron instead of Bertuzzi. Perron is a hound dog, gritty, plays the power play, a would be cheaper than Bertuzzi. Perron also played for Berube in St. Louis. Keep Domi for sure. He’s gritty and can play center temporarily. Great playmaker.
Marner to Vegas for Theodore and draft picks (1st, 2nd). Jarnkrok and Timmins for later draft picks (5th, 6th, 7th). Liljegren for a 2nd or 3rd draft pick. Robertson for 2nd draft pick. Resign Dewar, Domi, Edmundson, and Lyubushkin. Sign Brossoit or Stolarz. Sign Joshua and Trenin upfront. Name Giordano assistant coach.
I'd like to believe the Leafs will trade Marner but whether they'll move on this offseason from ANY of him, AM34, Nylander, Morgan Rielly and Tavares still remains TBD.
Again Mike being wrong about the Covid cap stalling. It applied or didn’t apply to ALL teams. The flaw was signing the least capable and oldest player of the core 4 to $11M setting the table for his younger and superior peers to demand and absolutely rightfully getting more (except Nylander who took a lot of guff and actually got underpaid). Also the core 4 aren’t small skilled forwards. They just play like it.😂😂😂
All of the Leafs Core 4 players have zero playoff runs. Nobody in Toronto is honest enough to admit - Matthews is a playoff disappointment at centre. He likely would be an elite playoff winger. JT has never been worth even $10 Million per year. Where did anyone get the idea Mitch is a superstar? Blake Wheeler who can fight, perform in the playoffs and get 90 points - earned $8.5 Million per year. How is Mitch worth more? Over his career Nylander has averaged less than 25 goals per year (only 217 in 9 years). He likely won’t average more over the next 8 years. So why in h#ll do Leafs have 4 of the nine $11 Million contracts in the NHL?
Norm WHY the LEAFS are not there is because the LEAFS have to many PANSY'S on the team and paying for 2 players that are not WORTH the money to this day and ONLY show up during Regular season and INVISIBLE in the Playoffs for the past 8 years making 22M per year and the LEAFS can't get the players that the team needs ...THESE 2 Players have to be MOVED before the LEAFS move FORWARD or nothing will change
The Shanahan hire was the biggest mistake. They had a tough team and they traded away the grit and replaced it with Country club atmosphere. This is hockey not polo. They forgot about championships are won from the goal out.Hyman was never a big scorer until he went to Edmonton. Gentleman you are judging players who took 10 to 15 games to get adjusted. We would not be talking about these salaries for Domi and Bertuzzi, if we did not have 4 players making 40 million. No other team has this burden. The mentality, the culture and the attitude of this team has to vastly change or the mediocrity continues.
The 40:30 mark features discussion of the 2024 Stanley Cup final. As the Oilers and Panthers are this month's Cup finalists, I predict the Oilers, like I did for the conference final, will need 6 or 7 games to win the Cup, with a 4- or 5-game Cup final I predict the Panthers will win. Yes the Oilers arguably have more depth, come playoff time, than the Leafs have for so long had but the Oilers have their flaws as well, and those flaws became apparent in games 2 and 3 of the recent Western Conference final.
Mike, you're a smart hockey guy (not that Norm isn't) but I'd like to hear how you would make changes that would convert this mediocre team into a Stanley Cup contender (good luck)!
by Max at that money. Bert was the better one getting under Marchand's skin. What if Marner does not want an 8 year deal... Maybe he wants a deal like Matthews shorter for one more after that. As a Marner fan i hope he pulls a Sundin especially after the Babcock video update
There is one indisputable fact…. If the kids are spoiled it isn’t their fault….. it is bad parenting, 100% Our core 4-5 are spoiled kids. Daddy Dubas and momma Kennedy were only part of the family… Grandpa Shanna will quietly retire this season. I hope for Mitch’s sake and ours….. they can move him this summer for the betterment of all.
I'm a leafs fan and was rooting for both Florida and Edmonton after they got knocked out. No big deal, better teams and lots of ex leafs that should've been kept. Well mayne not Cody Cici
I have come to terms with the fact that watching these playoff post yet another gutless Leafs showing. Our stars simply do not have it for post-season. Its time to move on from all of them. Matthews and Nylander are not bringing home Lord Stanley. Edmonton will before Toronto, l dont think this year, but soon. Every other teams stars win or lose come out and shine. Ours couldn't be F ing bothered.
Dubas wasn't going to change. It's nice to say that on his way out. He learned on the job and screwed the team up in the process. Shanny is to blame for entrusting boy wonder with the keys to the franchise in the first place.
As bad as Dubas was as a GM of the Leafs, Kevin Cheveldayoff, his Winnipeg Jets' counterpart, during the 5 complete seasons during the Dubas-as-Leaf-GM era, only won ONE playoff series. That for about 30 seconds or so, starting at the 21:21 mark, claimed of the Leafs' need to sign 2 or 3 d-men and a tandem goalie had meant the need to do away with allocating so much of their per-season cap hit to forwards.
The Jets have had goalie issues of their own in the postseason, with Connor Hellebuyck having propelled them to a 2018 conference final but with only ONE playoff series win since that. The postseason of:
- 2019 (vs the St. Louis Blues) featured the Jets go:
-- 1-4 when having scored ≤2 goals
-- 1-3 when having allowed ≥3 goals
-- 0-1 when having allowed ≥4 goals
- 2020 (vs the Flames) featured (over 4 games, with that series a best-of-5) records of 0-3 when having:
--- scored ≤2 goals
--- allowed ≥3 goals (in all cases having allowed ≥4 goals)
- 2021 featured:
-- vs the:
--- Oilers, a record of:
---- 3-0 when having allowed ≥3 goals
---- 1-0 when having allowed ≥4 goals
---- 3-0 when having scored ≤2 goals
--- Habs, a record of:
---- 0-3 when having allowed ≥3 goals
---- 0-2 when having allowed ≥4 goals
---- 0-3 when having scored ≤2 goals
-- overall records of:
--- 3-3 when having allowed ≥3 goals
--- 1-2 when having allowed ≥4 goals
--- 3-3 when having scored ≤2 goals
Overall the Jets, following the 2018 Golden Knights-Jets conference final but before the 2022 postseason for which they'd failed to qualify, had records of, when having:
-- scored ≤2 goals, 4-10
-- allowed at least:
--- 3 goals, 4-9
--- 4 goals, 1-6
The 2023 postseason featured just ONE game during which the Jets had allowed under 3 goals: a 5-1 win over the Golden Knights at T-Mobile Arena. In fact that is the ONLY post-2022 playoff game the Jets have played that HASN'T featured having allowed 4 or more goals. After that playoff series the Jets' post-2018 pre-2024 record, when having:
- scored ≤2 goals, was 4-13 (having gone 0-3 in that playoff series under such circumstances)
- allowed at least:
--- 3 goals, was 4-13
--- 4 goals, was 1-10
The April Avs-Jets playoff series featured not even ONE game during which the Jets HADN'T allowed under 4 goals, with 4 the MINIMUM # of goals, excluding empty-netters, the Jets would allow in EACH game. Although game 3 of the Jets' 2023 playoff series featured a loss in 2OT, no other post-2022 playoff game they've played has yet featured a decision in OT. The last 2 playoff series the Jets have played have, in all, featured just TWO wins and, in games decided by 1 goal, a 1-1 record.
The Leafs, during the 2024 Leafs-Bruins series, featured a record of 3-1 in games decided by 1 goal, thereby having won 1 more game under such circumstances than the Jets in TOTAL have, over their past TEN playoff games, won (just TWO). The Leafs did struggle with defence during 3 of the 1st 4 games of their most-recent playoff series but significantly tightened things up after that. The Jets NEVER tightened things up defensively after game 1 even after a 7-6 win in regulation in that 1st game of their most-recent series, with 5-2, 6-2, 5-1 and 6-3 losses. All-in-all the Jets' post-2018 pre-2025 record in playoff games is, when having:
- scored ≤2 goals, 4-16 (having once again lost all 3 games under such circumstances in that series)
- allowed at least:
--- 3 goals, was 5-17 (1-4 in the Avs-Jets series)
--- 4 goals, was 2-14 (1-4 in the Avs-Jets series)
How does Cheveldayoff aka Chevy still have a GM job with the Jets? If I were a full-time Jets' fan, I'd ask that very question particularly considering that among non-Jets' Canadian teams the Oilers have the longest actively serving GM via Ken Holland (2019 offseason onward). Chevy's been the Jets' GM from the 2011 offseason onward, with LIMITED playoff success. It doesn't matter the 2023-24 Jets' season featured a regular-season win-regulation loss-OT loss-shootout loss record of 52-24-5-1 (good enough for 110 points over 82 games), much better than the previous season's relevant one (46-33-2-1, good enough for 95 points and the 2nd Western Conference wildcard spot) or even the 2021-22 one during which they'd missed postseason play via a 39-32-7-4 record (just 89 points, 8 short of a playoff spot).
Maybe the prospect pool the Jets have is relatively good. How so? Yes drafting and development are important but these Jets were buyers approaching the 2024 NHL Trade Deadline, with acquisitions of:
- ex-Flame Sean Monahan (who the Flames drafted) from the Habs
- from the Devils, ex-Flame ex-Hab Tyler Toffoli and Colin Miller (both of whom the LA Kings drafted, with Miller having only ever played, when under contract to his NHL Draft team, said team's then-AHL affiliate, the Monarchs' club based in Manchester, in the Southern New Hampshire county of Hillsborough)
There's been talk in the media about whether the Jets' team founded as the Atlanta Thrashers will relocate for a 2nd time. Even if the Jets' team renamed to such in the 2010s manages to stay in the Winnipeg metro area, attendance issues have persisted following the arrival of covid into Manitoba in 2020. The Leafs may very well continue filling Scotiabank Arena for home games despite limited playoff success. Mark Chipman, an exec of Jets' ownership group True North Sports and Entertainment, claimed back in February attendance at Jets' home games would have to improve were the Jets to have a chance of remaining where they'd been long-term. Just doing a Google search under "Winnipeg Jets attendance issues" features, just on the 1st page of any such search for videos, multiple videos, all posted to UA-cam, 2 of them posted by NBC Sports' Brodie Brazil. Even if Chipman is wrong about the Jets' long-term financial sustainability via continuing to play at what was Bell MTS Place but has since been renamed Canada Life Centre, how can such issues just be ignored? Maybe season-ticket holders haven't been renewing because the Jets, aside from the 2017-18 season, haven't won 2 or more playoff series per season on a consistent enough basis. It'll be interesting to find out how the rest of the Jets' 2024 offseason goes although said offseason is, with 30 April Eastern Time the start of what would become the last game of their most recently completed season, a bit over a month old.
Always a pleasure listening to you guys😊
Never know when to catch you live. However I watched the you tube feed. Another great show!
Generally Sunday mornings.. but things can change. Always welcome.
@@TheLeafsConvo I understand that after all the years Norm. Just mean the time.
@@TheLeafsConvo BTW Norm, that was not meant to be sarcastic. I'm always here either in the live stream or later on you tube.
@@cudaus1 I like to watch episodes of The Leafs Convo podcast even if only afterwards. The same goes for various other postgame and other streams.
David Perron instead of Bertuzzi. Perron is a hound dog, gritty, plays the power play, a would be cheaper than Bertuzzi. Perron also played for Berube in St. Louis. Keep Domi for sure. He’s gritty and can play center temporarily. Great playmaker.
Need more players infront of the net. That’s playoff goals the leafs don’t get
Marner to Vegas for Theodore and draft picks (1st, 2nd).
Jarnkrok and Timmins for later draft picks (5th, 6th, 7th).
Liljegren for a 2nd or 3rd draft pick.
Robertson for 2nd draft pick.
Resign Dewar, Domi, Edmundson, and Lyubushkin.
Sign Brossoit or Stolarz.
Sign Joshua and Trenin upfront.
Name Giordano assistant coach.
What if they just publicly announce - how thru a Marner salvage rehabilitation program - Leafs plan to mitigate overpayments to Mitch? 😀
I'd like to believe the Leafs will trade Marner but whether they'll move on this offseason from ANY of him, AM34, Nylander, Morgan Rielly and Tavares still remains TBD.
@@wainber1 As a Boston playoff fan - we hope the Leafs keep these Core 4 playoff disappointments. Even Matthews at centre is a playoff disappointment.
Again Mike being wrong about the Covid cap stalling. It applied or didn’t apply to ALL teams. The flaw was signing the least capable and oldest player of the core 4 to $11M setting the table for his younger and superior peers to demand and absolutely rightfully getting more (except Nylander who took a lot of guff and actually got underpaid). Also the core 4 aren’t small skilled forwards. They just play like it.😂😂😂
5 years at $4.5 M for Domi is a JOKE
All of the Leafs Core 4 players have zero playoff runs.
Nobody in Toronto is honest enough to admit - Matthews is a playoff disappointment at centre. He likely would be an elite playoff winger.
JT has never been worth even $10 Million per year.
Where did anyone get the idea Mitch is a superstar? Blake Wheeler who can fight, perform in the playoffs and get 90 points - earned $8.5 Million per year. How is Mitch worth more?
Over his career Nylander has averaged less than 25 goals per year (only 217 in 9 years). He likely won’t average more over the next 8 years.
So why in h#ll do Leafs have 4 of the nine $11 Million contracts in the NHL?
Norm WHY the LEAFS are not there is because the LEAFS have to many PANSY'S on the team and paying for 2 players that are not WORTH the money to this day and ONLY show up during Regular season and INVISIBLE in the Playoffs for the past 8 years making 22M per year and the LEAFS can't get the players that the team needs ...THESE 2 Players have to be MOVED before the LEAFS move FORWARD or nothing will change
The Shanahan hire was the biggest mistake. They had a tough team and they traded away the grit and replaced it with Country club atmosphere. This is hockey not polo. They forgot about championships are won from the goal out.Hyman was never a big scorer until he went to Edmonton. Gentleman you are judging players who took 10 to 15 games to get adjusted. We would not be talking about these salaries for Domi and Bertuzzi, if we did not have 4 players making 40 million. No other team has this burden. The mentality, the culture and the attitude of this team has to vastly change or the mediocrity continues.
Even Matthews doesn’t belong at centre - come playoffs. The whole Leaf Core is rotten. 😀
Shannahan still lives in NYC. Flies in to Toronto when “needed”.
If they don't sign Tavares, keep kadri and Hyman... and hold out and pay marner the 9 million he should of got..... ifs and buts....
According to Mike, the pandemic only impacted the leafs
I am so sick and tired of that EXCUE
The 40:30 mark features discussion of the 2024 Stanley Cup final. As the Oilers and Panthers are this month's Cup finalists, I predict the Oilers, like I did for the conference final, will need 6 or 7 games to win the Cup, with a 4- or 5-game Cup final I predict the Panthers will win. Yes the Oilers arguably have more depth, come playoff time, than the Leafs have for so long had but the Oilers have their flaws as well, and those flaws became apparent in games 2 and 3 of the recent Western Conference final.
You can’t talk about cap when every other team was dealing with the same thing, some winning stanley
If Domi can get 70++ assists and 10-15 goals, that's acceptable for being on a line with Matthews.
Mike, you're a smart hockey guy (not that Norm isn't) but I'd like to hear how you would make changes that would convert this mediocre team into a Stanley Cup contender (good luck)!
Good morning Gents ...GO Panthers GO for Lord's Stanley's Cup
by Max at that money. Bert was the better one getting under Marchand's skin. What if Marner does not want an 8 year deal... Maybe he wants a deal like Matthews shorter for one more after that. As a Marner fan i hope he pulls a Sundin especially after the Babcock video update
There is one indisputable fact…. If the kids are spoiled it isn’t their fault….. it is bad parenting, 100%
Our core 4-5 are spoiled kids. Daddy Dubas and momma Kennedy were only part of the family…
Grandpa Shanna will quietly retire this season.
I hope for Mitch’s sake and ours….. they can move him this summer for the betterment of all.
Hi boys!!
Can we trade Mathews for Tkachuk? (why would he want to come to a losing team and city?).
Wake me up …When they break the core 4 … to build a TEAM
I'm a leafs fan and was rooting for both Florida and Edmonton after they got knocked out. No big deal, better teams and lots of ex leafs that should've been kept. Well mayne not Cody Cici
The swearing makes the host sound uneducated. It may also prevent the growth of the channel.
So much for Dallas still winning that series. 😂
Well Mike you're Dallas Stars lost in amazing fashion. You still doubting the Oilers now?
The Leafs BIGGEST mistake was hiring Dubas over Mark Hunter…completely SHITE decision by Shanahan
Hiring Dubas over anyone more competent than him was a huge mistake President Shanahan made, and that decision is still hurting the Leafs.
I have come to terms with the fact that watching these playoff post yet another gutless Leafs showing. Our stars simply do not have it for post-season. Its time to move on from all of them. Matthews and Nylander are not bringing home Lord Stanley. Edmonton will before Toronto, l dont think this year, but soon.
Every other teams stars win or lose come out and shine. Ours couldn't be F ing bothered.