This could change water cooling forever... - Fabric8 Labs @ Computex 2024
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- Get a special deal on Private Internet Access VPN today at lmg.gg/pia
3D printing a metal cold plate using AI sounds like a pipe dream, but Fabric8 has made it a reality. Alex is here to break down the new process and teach you why skiving is soooo yesterday.
Want us to unbox something? Make a suggestion at lmg.gg/7s34e
► GET MERCH: lttstore.com
► GET EXCLUSIVE CONTENT ON FLOATPLANE: lmg.gg/lttfloatplane
► SPONSORS, AFFILIATES, AND PARTNERS: lmg.gg/partners
► PRODUCTS WE USE ON THE SHORTCIRCUIT SET: lmg.gg/scset
FOLLOW US ELSEWHERE
---------------------------------------------------
Twitter: / shrtcrctyt
Instagram: / shortcircuityt
TikTok: / linustech
Facebook: / shortcircuityt
CHAPTERS
---------------------------------------------------
0:00 What is a cold plate?
0:42 The old vs new process
2:19 Sponsor - PIA
2:57 Showing off the accuracy and improvements
4:18 How does this work?
6:12 Release dates/pricing and other uses
7:35 Outro - Наука та технологія
I hope one day they invent better air for better air cooling.
We need some AI designed 3D printed air for real
(Liquid) nitrogen…
that would be hydrogen, pure hydrogen, would not recommend
Pure hydrogen would be terrible for air cooling. Extremely low density means very little heat transfer.
Methane is has about 2x the specific heat of air. Water in it's gaseous phase (steam) would also be more effective than air. There are issues with these solutions.
that's just Freon
I really feel like putting trade show coverage on short circuit is the appropriate move. 👍
"We got the radiator right here, that yeets the heat out" : Short Circuit vocabulary
This is a real good sign for manufacturing in general, metal 3d printing must have taken a sharp drop in price for it to go from aerospace manufacturing to AIO water blocks.
Note this is in particular "water/solution based" ECAM, which to my memory are basically just copper and nickle. So not the often-desired stainless steel/aluminium/etc metals, though I do wonder if this method can do those more interesting metals? I am not finding any papers with my google-fu
Won't that 3D printed metal be porous? what about air bubbles & gunk getting stuck?
@@EslamNawito I don't know how much I can say, but read up on Resin 3D printing, and most of those same complications seem to apply. So yes, there are challenges, and yes porosity is a concern. Though final-finish sintering is easy with pure copper to seal holes at whatever size you want, leaving any larger (intentional for flow) holes alone.
@@admalledd It should be able to do anything that you can electroplate with. Copper and nickle would be the most common but I can see other metals being used for some applications
@@kiwihuman yeah you can electroplate silver and gold and I'm sure the jewelry industry is looking into it
crazy how not too long ago 3D prinitng felt like an expensive fever dream, crazy how far we have come
I know it wasn't but even 2 years ago it fell l felt space age and niche. I am sure it had already started revolutionizing engineering and product sampling.
It's been like ten years of sort of mainstream
3D-printing has been available to industrial clients for multiple decades, but it has progressed a lot in the past years and also got a lot cheaper.
Hobby level 3D printing has been around for over 10 years and industrial 3D printing has been around even longer.
Ironically, it was pretty expensive when the hype was at its peak; it's much more affordable now, across all categories.
Aight fair enough, this is actually legitimately really cool.
Pun intended?
@@leonro hehehehe
ba dum tss
Alex looks like he is genuinely enjoying himself. Like a kid in the candy shop
Alex is the perfect man for LTT trade show coverage. This and using his superb technical jankiness is why I'll watch any videos with him.
But where’s the Jank? 😂
Okay, the electronics engineer in me was suddenly super intrigued by the 3d printed waveguide for radar Tx's. That's actually fkng dope.
as are defense contractors
I guess you've never heard of a CNC machine.
"Oh geeze, we nearly forgot to segue to our sponsor!"
My man's career flashed before his eyes.
The thumbnail makes me want to eat pop tarts
ikr?
As a 3D Printing enthusiast this is actually crazy stuff to see. 3D printing is the future.
Forget 3D printing, if you can do this sort of fine-detail targeted electroplating you could probably manufacture low-volume custom PCBs without nearly as many complicated steps. Prototyping PCB designs can take a long time, because while they are pretty cheap per unit you typically need to order a larger quantity than you need and it's days or weeks between prototypes. But in theory this type of printer could dramatically speed that up.
Exactly this, for pcb prototyping id hazard this a borderline breakthrough if you can put it on any kind of proper substrate. Youd still need someway to do vias though, so its not all encompassing, but still. And with the resolution it offers, god only knows what kind of new shit you could do.
For some designs of PCBs there's already 3d printers that use conductive ink to create PCBs fairly quickly. Voltera is one brand. You're not going to make PCBs for super dense BGAs on a four layer board, but for some applications it's a viable alternative in the prototyping stage.
Or you can try to make PCBs manually, I've made some in the past, quick and easy, you just have to take the time to learn
@@1vend7 Oh absolutely. I've been making my own PCBs at home for about 20 years using some pretty crude methods that work great once you're used to it. But sometimes it's nice to have a "proper" solution so to speak.
You can already ‘print’ pcb circuit boards with cnc machines
ECAM is genius. Localised electroplating!
Screw the cold plate, THIS is the tech I want!
Great now Asetek is going to get a patent for using 3D printing in water blocks.
they can't patent the manufacturing process, but they can (and will / have) patent all the water block designs sadly
@@originalkhawk That depends on whether or not they can get a patent on an ML generated design. Which will depend on if they can convince a court that the AI was "just assisting" a human designer, or if the court (rightfully) recognizes that the design is fundamentally the work of the learning model.
@@originalkhawkwell they patented something as simple as having the pump on block, so they'll probably get something that prevents anyone else from utilizing 3D printing for blocks. They'll find a way to fuck every other company.
No shit.. I've got to say, I have ZERO respect for Asetek as a company. They feel more like patent trolls than a real innovative company at times.
I think the coolest part is the shape of the "fins" . The uprights look like a cool spire, with channels to flow not only around them, but through them too.
Yall better not auction this cold plate
😂
That’s so cool!
I can’t help but notice that this report really hit the spot, and your power supply one you did at CES really hit the spot too. Good stuff, I really enjoy the cadence.
"a whole lot of pressure and super high velocity" these two are inversely related. If you have high pressure, then you have lower velocity. Bernoulli's Principle.
I think the 1/2 ρv² on Bernoulli's Principle can be called dinamic pressure
Now I am waiting for 3D printted Aircoolers with the same concept. Very intereseting.
Can't wait for 3d printed metal to be patented again lmao
Lol I just commented something similar. If I were Asetek I'd sue you rn. 😂
Asutek don’t make 3d printers, they just contract it to a company with an industrial SLS machine
I guess you've never heard of a CNC machine.
Wow this is really cool. I'm almost certainly going to use this for my next PC build later this year / early next year.
sorry I don't speak English.
to overcome this since there are already cases and motherboards with the cables inverted.
the water cooler could fix the socket on both sides, thus cooling the DiE completely.
the water cooler would have to have 4 hoses and two pumps, one for each side of the motherboard fixing.
I believe I could get an improvement in cooling.
the most brutal series is the socket lock being made of copper, but I don't know if it would help much.
Uh, the antenna PoC really makes me interested in a deeper dive of that 3d-printing technique.
In Costa Rica, we need light to see the street even more, here we have some holes that are huge and we got the next to each other and several of them jejeje
Alex is so enthusiastic i could listen him all day... :) and the product is also really exciting and finally a good use for AI clever
Impressive insights on fabric 8 Labs' innovation in water cooling. The potential impact on overall CPU performance is intriguing.
I would love a non asetek one... a custom loop with a D5 would love it.
some charts about the performances should be good to see, i can't wait.
Cool stuff, And when the next socket comes out the ECAM can make those too.
Welcome back PIA :)
Those are really cool, on the close ups I recognised the gyroid infill, is it good for cooling though? I would imagine it would be given its surface area and that is is fully open. The other pattern they used looked even more complicated but it was difficult to see.
How were these printed though? If it was a metal powder process then they would need to get all the powder out of the tiny fine details so how do they manage that? I should have just watched further, I am still surprised with how precise they can get, they need to have just the right concentration of copper and hope that there is enough dissolved copper where it is needed, then they need to tune the expose time too, if they leave it on too long it could just pick up too many copper atoms and basically electroplate it, but too short and they won’t build it up large enough.
Love Technical Explanations by Alex 😄❤
This is SO cool, I hope it comes to custom water cooling too. Though those complex structures would probably make good air coolers as well, maximising surface area. Maybe we could finally see VRM coolers get a bit smaller again, but without giving up cooling performance with all the extra surface area.
COMPLETE FREEDOM COMPLETELY
...wich is not completely stupid
Worth the click just to see the skiving - I had no idea that's how they did that.
Nice tech this printer! thanks
Now that’s some cool tech! I’d love to see labs test it against other water and air cooling methods once it comes out
Props to Alex, and the whole crew honestly, I can't imagine doing this. Huge loud crowds that are all saying the same thing, pressure from all sides to make the product look good, flashing lights everywhere, I would be very uncomfortable. Great work on the coverage so far.
thats so cool. this technology was actually used in nuclear fusion plant. except they used pipes in their water tank. very old tech matter of fact but no one has ever came up with that idea outside of nuclear plant. i remember myths buster try to find ways to how chill coke fast and they couldnt find any. i already knew how to chill fast beside using salt that doesnt work. more surface area mean more rapid themal transfer, also sometime pulse contact also mean faster themal transfer as well.
You’ll be thrilled to hear about reaction engines
I can't wait to 3D-print the next heir of my family-clan.
I like the close up
Like in car manufacturing where metal 3D print has been used, and AI for design optimization. It makes sense it would get to cooling as well.
Forget the water blocks, where do I get the printer tech? Printing in metal sounds great, and this sounds like it would be possible to print at home cheaply.
7:30 I am pretty sure the reason it is designed the way it is, is to be able to maintain a relatively constant water flow and pressure across the entire cold plate, in other words a larger volume of water is flowing across the entire cold plate.
These TPMS structures they mostly used as fins on the base plate maybe looks crazy, but they're really common if it comes to research about heat transfer / heat exchanger and additive manufacturing. An for this case other geometries would have better performance, like some kind of lattice structure. And the way they optimized the folw path of the cooling plate may also be done with topology optimization and not an AI. Often, researcher only use AI to get better funding, but other algorithms are better or at least understandable so it can be adjusted to a lot of similar problems without running the simulation/optimization again.
Nice, that LMG made a video about my daily work :D Greatings from Germany
Great to see r&d in aio production! But, I shudder to think about the price!!
Would be cool to see it mounted and in active use.
Hopefully someone decides to do this for open loop water blocks. The heat transfer between the CPU dies and the coolant is one of the limiting factors when it comes to open loop cooling and this could really help with that.
The thumbnail looks like a cybertronic poptart
This is so cool!
Only issue I see that those narrow flow paths require very clean fluid and any impurities will glogg up and tank performance.
Very cool stuff
I just gotta Say, Alex is the best presenter of tech at LMG (imo), love the enthusiasm, passion and knowledge af! Greetings from EU
what happened to the air jet project ? That was so good.
I hope that the no news is a waiting period for testing longevity of the product in real applications, like for laptop manufacturers
What type of metal 3d printer did they use it’s so clean?!?!?
Another advantage not mentioned is retooling. For most processes, the setup is fixed. That tool will only ever make the one part, and to make a different part you need new tools, though the same machine might be used. As with SLA, it only takes uploading a new file and as long as the print bed is big enough, that's it.
And this YEET... to our sponsor
This really is fascinating. I wonder how they will perform over time. It seems like any flaws in printing could result in severe pump damage if little pieces of metal break free and make their way through the system.
You could probably put a filter in it, but it'd probably be hard for an AIO.
My initial thought is how any corrosion at all is going to turn this into a not coldplate pretty fast.
This would be really cool for making laptop vapor chambers!
the surface area is also amazingly improved for water contact > that is huge and hopefully they start using that for the annode and cathodes in new l-ion batteries too, i have been waiting for the battery tech, and aio's beat them to it, lol
Where can i find more information about the 3D printed radar sensor?
I want that 3d Printer!
I guess you've never heard of a CNC machine.
Maybe a good EK replacement, looking forward to it.
This could work with any plating material right? Not just copper.
They could 3d print ultra fine silver mesh for use in filtration.
I remember comments about this technology a few years ago: "It's too slow, it will never have any use outside of prototypes"
Slow, yes..... but it can do otherwise impossible things and is highly scalable.
Super cool
It's not often that I see something totally new and REALLY cool. Well done!!
I was waiting for something like this! 3D printing is the future!
Daymn Alex is hot!
"Now we have complete freedom" CNC machines took notice of your comment.
Sure you could introduce a tiny bit more turbulent flow with metal printing, but redirecting flow is fairly easy with CNC. 2 degrees temp drops sounds like a lot, but on the scale of watercooling doesn't really matter much. Mainly because you can trust on the marketing department to compare the performance to the most base form of watercooling.
To me, it's a bit (a lot) gimmicky.
looks like it will be a pain to clean if you get contaminants in the coolant, bad enough with standard plates, but they look like they would be a scrap it and get another?
Can we replace ethernet cable between routers if the wifi signal from these 3D printed antenna is much precise and efficient.
That IS cool, or should I say, "cooler." ~ I couldn't resist.
Wow 😮
Better have some good filtering and corrosion control in a loop using those base plates.
Would be clogged within a month otherwise :D
This can be done through photochemical etching on a larger scale and for much cheaper then 3D printing with metal. The tech has been around for much longer too.
So why haven't we seen this til now?
The question would be what is the minimum size it can produce. I would think it micron size might be a challenge
@Forlong21 at the micron level, liquid dynamics would be very constrained.
ok thats cool. to use AI to analyse flow and heat patterns to make the best cold plate.
I would have to turn the heat on to warm up my thumbs enough to press the like button.
This looks like something that needs fluid topology optimization... Would be a cool project to work on.
But production is probably very expensive.
I thought that was a Resin 3D Print at first
Those are some tiny holes for the water to pass through. You better tell Linus not to cheap out on tap water for his loop. 😉
I’d imagine this would make deliding a cpu even more worth while
This might actually be enough for me to make the jump from air to an AIO.
You guys say "Out" funny
Now we just need 3d printed cool air
Gyroids have 2 surfaces. 2 liquids could seperately flow through that in a closed system, couldn't they? The print as a 3D membrane between those liquids could have super interesting electrochemical applications, where we currently use mostly membranes!
I'm honestly surprised that this wasn't already being implemented by the current WC component manufacturers..
Was it really a heat-map into a AI-model or was it more like a heat map into a fluid-simulation paired with topology optimization?
The only problem I foresee with this... if it moves to the DIY Water-cooling sector... is mixing metals (at all.)
In cases with 3D-Printed cold-plates, the same, or compatible materials should also be used in the radiator and any other cold-plates in the loop. Corrosion within a cold plate like that would be devastating.
Hmmm SLM printers are on the market for a few years... :D
whats the price on the printer?!? thats the interesting bit imo
This video feels like deja vu
This is so cool to be there, but I am here doing my bachelor degree in telecommunications
Gotta admit I thought the thumbnail for this video was of a Poptart.
Now I'm kinda hungry.
1:05 ugh, gloopy
2 parts. 1 best design for cooling, 2. Long term reliability, vs gunk cleaning, maintenance
tbh if u want these clean , an ultrasonic cleaner is the only option . a decent option , though .
@@catgirldoll or HCL if you really want them to be clean
supercool
All that they need is the "Andrés García" Pump.
Alex, that's backwards. On TR, the cores are on the outside, I/O on the inside. I/O needs FAR less cooling than cores. The flow should mostly be directed to the outside of that coldplate.
Unfortunately everything tends to the same temperature, being in close proximity. And IO does use many watts of power when driving 24 PEX5 lanes.
I'm less interested in buying the heatsink and much more interested in where i can buy the printer
Computex hell yeah new stuff