This is a real good sign for manufacturing in general, metal 3d printing must have taken a sharp drop in price for it to go from aerospace manufacturing to AIO water blocks.
Note this is in particular "water/solution based" ECAM, which to my memory are basically just copper and nickle. So not the often-desired stainless steel/aluminium/etc metals, though I do wonder if this method can do those more interesting metals? I am not finding any papers with my google-fu
@@EslamNawito I don't know how much I can say, but read up on Resin 3D printing, and most of those same complications seem to apply. So yes, there are challenges, and yes porosity is a concern. Though final-finish sintering is easy with pure copper to seal holes at whatever size you want, leaving any larger (intentional for flow) holes alone.
@@admalledd It should be able to do anything that you can electroplate with. Copper and nickle would be the most common but I can see other metals being used for some applications
Pure hydrogen would be terrible for air cooling. Extremely low density means very little heat transfer. Methane is has about 2x the specific heat of air. Water in it's gaseous phase (steam) would also be more effective than air. There are issues with these solutions.
I know it wasn't but even 2 years ago it fell l felt space age and niche. I am sure it had already started revolutionizing engineering and product sampling.
I think the coolest part is the shape of the "fins" . The uprights look like a cool spire, with channels to flow not only around them, but through them too.
@@originalkhawk That depends on whether or not they can get a patent on an ML generated design. Which will depend on if they can convince a court that the AI was "just assisting" a human designer, or if the court (rightfully) recognizes that the design is fundamentally the work of the learning model.
@@originalkhawkwell they patented something as simple as having the pump on block, so they'll probably get something that prevents anyone else from utilizing 3D printing for blocks. They'll find a way to fuck every other company.
Forget 3D printing, if you can do this sort of fine-detail targeted electroplating you could probably manufacture low-volume custom PCBs without nearly as many complicated steps. Prototyping PCB designs can take a long time, because while they are pretty cheap per unit you typically need to order a larger quantity than you need and it's days or weeks between prototypes. But in theory this type of printer could dramatically speed that up.
Exactly this, for pcb prototyping id hazard this a borderline breakthrough if you can put it on any kind of proper substrate. Youd still need someway to do vias though, so its not all encompassing, but still. And with the resolution it offers, god only knows what kind of new shit you could do.
For some designs of PCBs there's already 3d printers that use conductive ink to create PCBs fairly quickly. Voltera is one brand. You're not going to make PCBs for super dense BGAs on a four layer board, but for some applications it's a viable alternative in the prototyping stage.
@@1vend7 Oh absolutely. I've been making my own PCBs at home for about 20 years using some pretty crude methods that work great once you're used to it. But sometimes it's nice to have a "proper" solution so to speak.
That’s so cool! I can’t help but notice that this report really hit the spot, and your power supply one you did at CES really hit the spot too. Good stuff, I really enjoy the cadence.
Props to Alex, and the whole crew honestly, I can't imagine doing this. Huge loud crowds that are all saying the same thing, pressure from all sides to make the product look good, flashing lights everywhere, I would be very uncomfortable. Great work on the coverage so far.
thats so cool. this technology was actually used in nuclear fusion plant. except they used pipes in their water tank. very old tech matter of fact but no one has ever came up with that idea outside of nuclear plant. i remember myths buster try to find ways to how chill coke fast and they couldnt find any. i already knew how to chill fast beside using salt that doesnt work. more surface area mean more rapid themal transfer, also sometime pulse contact also mean faster themal transfer as well.
In Costa Rica, we need light to see the street even more, here we have some holes that are huge and we got the next to each other and several of them jejeje
7:30 I am pretty sure the reason it is designed the way it is, is to be able to maintain a relatively constant water flow and pressure across the entire cold plate, in other words a larger volume of water is flowing across the entire cold plate.
This is SO cool, I hope it comes to custom water cooling too. Though those complex structures would probably make good air coolers as well, maximising surface area. Maybe we could finally see VRM coolers get a bit smaller again, but without giving up cooling performance with all the extra surface area.
Another advantage not mentioned is retooling. For most processes, the setup is fixed. That tool will only ever make the one part, and to make a different part you need new tools, though the same machine might be used. As with SLA, it only takes uploading a new file and as long as the print bed is big enough, that's it.
Hopefully someone decides to do this for open loop water blocks. The heat transfer between the CPU dies and the coolant is one of the limiting factors when it comes to open loop cooling and this could really help with that.
Those are really cool, on the close ups I recognised the gyroid infill, is it good for cooling though? I would imagine it would be given its surface area and that is is fully open. The other pattern they used looked even more complicated but it was difficult to see. How were these printed though? If it was a metal powder process then they would need to get all the powder out of the tiny fine details so how do they manage that? I should have just watched further, I am still surprised with how precise they can get, they need to have just the right concentration of copper and hope that there is enough dissolved copper where it is needed, then they need to tune the expose time too, if they leave it on too long it could just pick up too many copper atoms and basically electroplate it, but too short and they won’t build it up large enough.
the surface area is also amazingly improved for water contact > that is huge and hopefully they start using that for the annode and cathodes in new l-ion batteries too, i have been waiting for the battery tech, and aio's beat them to it, lol
Forget the water blocks, where do I get the printer tech? Printing in metal sounds great, and this sounds like it would be possible to print at home cheaply.
I remember comments about this technology a few years ago: "It's too slow, it will never have any use outside of prototypes" Slow, yes..... but it can do otherwise impossible things and is highly scalable.
Gyroids have 2 surfaces. 2 liquids could seperately flow through that in a closed system, couldn't they? The print as a 3D membrane between those liquids could have super interesting electrochemical applications, where we currently use mostly membranes!
Alex, that's backwards. On TR, the cores are on the outside, I/O on the inside. I/O needs FAR less cooling than cores. The flow should mostly be directed to the outside of that coldplate.
i hope this is cheaper or they at least find a way to make this cheaper then the standard process, yes the machines are probably crazy expensive but they probably dont have to waste any material and can use less in the final end product. Also there is probably less time on the machines since the old process for making these blocks takes forever. Prayers for a cheaper, cooler future.
"a whole lot of pressure and super high velocity" these two are inversely related. If you have high pressure, then you have lower velocity. Bernoulli's Principle.
The only problem I foresee with this... if it moves to the DIY Water-cooling sector... is mixing metals (at all.) In cases with 3D-Printed cold-plates, the same, or compatible materials should also be used in the radiator and any other cold-plates in the loop. Corrosion within a cold plate like that would be devastating.
I really feel like putting trade show coverage on short circuit is the appropriate move. 👍
"We got the radiator right here, that yeets the heat out" : Short Circuit vocabulary
This is a real good sign for manufacturing in general, metal 3d printing must have taken a sharp drop in price for it to go from aerospace manufacturing to AIO water blocks.
Note this is in particular "water/solution based" ECAM, which to my memory are basically just copper and nickle. So not the often-desired stainless steel/aluminium/etc metals, though I do wonder if this method can do those more interesting metals? I am not finding any papers with my google-fu
Won't that 3D printed metal be porous? what about air bubbles & gunk getting stuck?
@@EslamNawito I don't know how much I can say, but read up on Resin 3D printing, and most of those same complications seem to apply. So yes, there are challenges, and yes porosity is a concern. Though final-finish sintering is easy with pure copper to seal holes at whatever size you want, leaving any larger (intentional for flow) holes alone.
@@admalledd It should be able to do anything that you can electroplate with. Copper and nickle would be the most common but I can see other metals being used for some applications
@@kiwihuman yeah you can electroplate silver and gold and I'm sure the jewelry industry is looking into it
I hope one day they invent better air for better air cooling.
We need some AI designed 3D printed air for real
(Liquid) nitrogen…
that would be hydrogen, pure hydrogen, would not recommend
Pure hydrogen would be terrible for air cooling. Extremely low density means very little heat transfer.
Methane is has about 2x the specific heat of air. Water in it's gaseous phase (steam) would also be more effective than air. There are issues with these solutions.
that's just Freon
crazy how not too long ago 3D prinitng felt like an expensive fever dream, crazy how far we have come
I know it wasn't but even 2 years ago it fell l felt space age and niche. I am sure it had already started revolutionizing engineering and product sampling.
It's been like ten years of sort of mainstream
3D-printing has been available to industrial clients for multiple decades, but it has progressed a lot in the past years and also got a lot cheaper.
Hobby level 3D printing has been around for over 10 years and industrial 3D printing has been around even longer.
Ironically, it was pretty expensive when the hype was at its peak; it's much more affordable now, across all categories.
Aight fair enough, this is actually legitimately really cool.
Pun intended?
@@leonro hehehehe
ba dum tss
Alex is the perfect man for LTT trade show coverage. This and using his superb technical jankiness is why I'll watch any videos with him.
But where’s the Jank? 😂
As a 3D Printing enthusiast this is actually crazy stuff to see. 3D printing is the future.
Alex looks like he is genuinely enjoying himself. Like a kid in the candy shop
Okay, the electronics engineer in me was suddenly super intrigued by the 3d printed waveguide for radar Tx's. That's actually fkng dope.
as are defense contractors
I guess you've never heard of a CNC machine.
Super cool design, and even better to see it in action! It’s awesome that our software was part of this exciting project 🚀
"Oh geeze, we nearly forgot to segue to our sponsor!"
My man's career flashed before his eyes.
The thumbnail makes me want to eat pop tarts
ikr?
I think the coolest part is the shape of the "fins" . The uprights look like a cool spire, with channels to flow not only around them, but through them too.
ECAM is genius. Localised electroplating!
Screw the cold plate, THIS is the tech I want!
Great now Asetek is going to get a patent for using 3D printing in water blocks.
they can't patent the manufacturing process, but they can (and will / have) patent all the water block designs sadly
@@originalkhawk That depends on whether or not they can get a patent on an ML generated design. Which will depend on if they can convince a court that the AI was "just assisting" a human designer, or if the court (rightfully) recognizes that the design is fundamentally the work of the learning model.
@@originalkhawkwell they patented something as simple as having the pump on block, so they'll probably get something that prevents anyone else from utilizing 3D printing for blocks. They'll find a way to fuck every other company.
No shit.. I've got to say, I have ZERO respect for Asetek as a company. They feel more like patent trolls than a real innovative company at times.
Forget 3D printing, if you can do this sort of fine-detail targeted electroplating you could probably manufacture low-volume custom PCBs without nearly as many complicated steps. Prototyping PCB designs can take a long time, because while they are pretty cheap per unit you typically need to order a larger quantity than you need and it's days or weeks between prototypes. But in theory this type of printer could dramatically speed that up.
Exactly this, for pcb prototyping id hazard this a borderline breakthrough if you can put it on any kind of proper substrate. Youd still need someway to do vias though, so its not all encompassing, but still. And with the resolution it offers, god only knows what kind of new shit you could do.
For some designs of PCBs there's already 3d printers that use conductive ink to create PCBs fairly quickly. Voltera is one brand. You're not going to make PCBs for super dense BGAs on a four layer board, but for some applications it's a viable alternative in the prototyping stage.
Or you can try to make PCBs manually, I've made some in the past, quick and easy, you just have to take the time to learn
@@1vend7 Oh absolutely. I've been making my own PCBs at home for about 20 years using some pretty crude methods that work great once you're used to it. But sometimes it's nice to have a "proper" solution so to speak.
You can already ‘print’ pcb circuit boards with cnc machines
Now I am waiting for 3D printted Aircoolers with the same concept. Very intereseting.
That’s so cool!
I can’t help but notice that this report really hit the spot, and your power supply one you did at CES really hit the spot too. Good stuff, I really enjoy the cadence.
Alex is so enthusiastic i could listen him all day... :) and the product is also really exciting and finally a good use for AI clever
Impressive insights on fabric 8 Labs' innovation in water cooling. The potential impact on overall CPU performance is intriguing.
Props to Alex, and the whole crew honestly, I can't imagine doing this. Huge loud crowds that are all saying the same thing, pressure from all sides to make the product look good, flashing lights everywhere, I would be very uncomfortable. Great work on the coverage so far.
Uh, the antenna PoC really makes me interested in a deeper dive of that 3d-printing technique.
Yall better not auction this cold plate
😂
thats so cool. this technology was actually used in nuclear fusion plant. except they used pipes in their water tank. very old tech matter of fact but no one has ever came up with that idea outside of nuclear plant. i remember myths buster try to find ways to how chill coke fast and they couldnt find any. i already knew how to chill fast beside using salt that doesnt work. more surface area mean more rapid themal transfer, also sometime pulse contact also mean faster themal transfer as well.
You’ll be thrilled to hear about reaction engines
In Costa Rica, we need light to see the street even more, here we have some holes that are huge and we got the next to each other and several of them jejeje
Wow this is really cool. I'm almost certainly going to use this for my next PC build later this year / early next year.
COMPLETE FREEDOM COMPLETELY
...wich is not completely stupid
The thumbnail looks like a cybertronic poptart
Love Technical Explanations by Alex 😄❤
2.3 degrees improvement from the cold plate alone is insane
I would love a non asetek one... a custom loop with a D5 would love it.
Worth the click just to see the skiving - I had no idea that's how they did that.
7:30 I am pretty sure the reason it is designed the way it is, is to be able to maintain a relatively constant water flow and pressure across the entire cold plate, in other words a larger volume of water is flowing across the entire cold plate.
Like in car manufacturing where metal 3D print has been used, and AI for design optimization. It makes sense it would get to cooling as well.
I can't wait to 3D-print the next heir of my family-clan.
This is SO cool, I hope it comes to custom water cooling too. Though those complex structures would probably make good air coolers as well, maximising surface area. Maybe we could finally see VRM coolers get a bit smaller again, but without giving up cooling performance with all the extra surface area.
I just gotta Say, Alex is the best presenter of tech at LMG (imo), love the enthusiasm, passion and knowledge af! Greetings from EU
Now that’s some cool tech! I’d love to see labs test it against other water and air cooling methods once it comes out
some charts about the performances should be good to see, i can't wait.
Welcome back PIA :)
Another advantage not mentioned is retooling. For most processes, the setup is fixed. That tool will only ever make the one part, and to make a different part you need new tools, though the same machine might be used. As with SLA, it only takes uploading a new file and as long as the print bed is big enough, that's it.
Hopefully someone decides to do this for open loop water blocks. The heat transfer between the CPU dies and the coolant is one of the limiting factors when it comes to open loop cooling and this could really help with that.
It's not often that I see something totally new and REALLY cool. Well done!!
Can't wait for 3d printed metal to be patented again lmao
Lol I just commented something similar. If I were Asetek I'd sue you rn. 😂
Asutek don’t make 3d printers, they just contract it to a company with an industrial SLS machine
I guess you've never heard of a CNC machine.
what happened to the air jet project ? That was so good.
I hope that the no news is a waiting period for testing longevity of the product in real applications, like for laptop manufacturers
I was waiting for something like this! 3D printing is the future!
Daymn Alex is hot!
I would have to turn the heat on to warm up my thumbs enough to press the like button.
Cool stuff, And when the next socket comes out the ECAM can make those too.
This would be really cool for making laptop vapor chambers!
Those are really cool, on the close ups I recognised the gyroid infill, is it good for cooling though? I would imagine it would be given its surface area and that is is fully open. The other pattern they used looked even more complicated but it was difficult to see.
How were these printed though? If it was a metal powder process then they would need to get all the powder out of the tiny fine details so how do they manage that? I should have just watched further, I am still surprised with how precise they can get, they need to have just the right concentration of copper and hope that there is enough dissolved copper where it is needed, then they need to tune the expose time too, if they leave it on too long it could just pick up too many copper atoms and basically electroplate it, but too short and they won’t build it up large enough.
PIA is back? I remember the time, that PIA was the goat of the sponsors for LTT.
FYI, PIA is also the first sponsor who appears in Short Circuit.
LTT posted a video explaining it 9 days ago!
@@wilhellmllw3608 The video = "I like money"
@@JamesWright1919 who doesn’t 🤷♂️
Great to see r&d in aio production! But, I shudder to think about the price!!
Nice tech this printer! thanks
the surface area is also amazingly improved for water contact > that is huge and hopefully they start using that for the annode and cathodes in new l-ion batteries too, i have been waiting for the battery tech, and aio's beat them to it, lol
Would be cool to see it mounted and in active use.
All that they need is the "Andrés García" Pump.
That IS cool, or should I say, "cooler." ~ I couldn't resist.
I like the close up
Forget the water blocks, where do I get the printer tech? Printing in metal sounds great, and this sounds like it would be possible to print at home cheaply.
I want that 3d Printer!
I guess you've never heard of a CNC machine.
I thought that was a Resin 3D Print at first
Only issue I see that those narrow flow paths require very clean fluid and any impurities will glogg up and tank performance.
I remember comments about this technology a few years ago: "It's too slow, it will never have any use outside of prototypes"
Slow, yes..... but it can do otherwise impossible things and is highly scalable.
I'm honestly surprised that this wasn't already being implemented by the current WC component manufacturers..
Gotta admit I thought the thumbnail for this video was of a Poptart.
Now I'm kinda hungry.
almost 7 degrees Celsius on a 300w seeeeeeems INSAAAANE from just this one bit of improvement.
It's improvement when compared to their previous AIO, so it's not quite as impressive as it might seem.
ok thats cool. to use AI to analyse flow and heat patterns to make the best cold plate.
Those are some tiny holes for the water to pass through. You better tell Linus not to cheap out on tap water for his loop. 😉
Absolute freedom to clog the paths with random liquid growth!
This might actually be enough for me to make the jump from air to an AIO.
Gyroids have 2 surfaces. 2 liquids could seperately flow through that in a closed system, couldn't they? The print as a 3D membrane between those liquids could have super interesting electrochemical applications, where we currently use mostly membranes!
Alex, that's backwards. On TR, the cores are on the outside, I/O on the inside. I/O needs FAR less cooling than cores. The flow should mostly be directed to the outside of that coldplate.
Unfortunately everything tends to the same temperature, being in close proximity. And IO does use many watts of power when driving 24 PEX5 lanes.
This is so cool to be there, but I am here doing my bachelor degree in telecommunications
This looks like something that needs fluid topology optimization... Would be a cool project to work on.
But production is probably very expensive.
Can't wait for the AI-O water block marketing.
"It's not that expensive" is his pitch to Linus to buy one.
Oh he's holding something they might have to auction that too
I’d imagine this would make deliding a cpu even more worth while
This is so cool!
Maybe a good EK replacement, looking forward to it.
Apple Silicon responds: Apple-flavored . . . Kool Aid?
Better have some good filtering and corrosion control in a loop using those base plates.
Would be clogged within a month otherwise :D
At these premiums, making it in to replacement heat spreader is the only logical next step
And this YEET... to our sponsor
i hope this is cheaper or they at least find a way to make this cheaper then the standard process, yes the machines are probably crazy expensive but they probably dont have to waste any material and can use less in the final end product. Also there is probably less time on the machines since the old process for making these blocks takes forever. Prayers for a cheaper, cooler future.
This could work with any plating material right? Not just copper.
They could 3d print ultra fine silver mesh for use in filtration.
The thumbnail looks like he's holding a pop tart.
Guess it's lunch time for me.
Don't let LTT have it, they will just auction it off.
Super cool
"a whole lot of pressure and super high velocity" these two are inversely related. If you have high pressure, then you have lower velocity. Bernoulli's Principle.
I think the 1/2 ρv² on Bernoulli's Principle can be called dinamic pressure
I was like: its a resin printer.
"Magnets instead of UV"
Oh thats clever
The only problem I foresee with this... if it moves to the DIY Water-cooling sector... is mixing metals (at all.)
In cases with 3D-Printed cold-plates, the same, or compatible materials should also be used in the radiator and any other cold-plates in the loop. Corrosion within a cold plate like that would be devastating.
Doesnt matter if its cool does it work is what you should be focused on
Wow 😮
There needs to be a limit of one "yeet" per video.
Very cool stuff
Now this is a solid use of AI
Now we just need 3d printed cool air
The fact that you can 3d print copper at room temperature feels absolutely insane to me.
This video feels like deja vu