Are Lighter Motorcycle Wheels Better? Cast Vs. Forged Wheels
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Do lighter motorcycle wheels actually make a difference. In order to find out, we swapped out the old cast wheels for some Machesini forged wheels on our vintage Ducati 848. We were not prepared for what we discoverd.
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I've had carbon fiber wheels on all my sport bikes since 2002. Once you ride a sport bike with light wheels you never want to ride a bike with the standard "heavy" wheels again. Transitioning left to right in s-curves so effortless with light wheels compared to a standard wheel. My newest bike is an S1000RR with the M packaged that comes standard with CF wheels. One of my other bikes is a K1300S that is all stock. After riding the S1000RR for a week and then switching to the K1300S, the K1300S feels like I have to pull it down in a a corner because of the noticeable difference gyroscopic effect.
When all you have ever rode is ride a motorcycle with standard wheels you don't notice the gyroscopic effect but once you do ride a bike with light wheels the difference in gyroscopic effect is very noticeable right away. I know lighter wheels are a lot of money but if you want the biggest performance enhancement for the money, lighter wheels are the best option. However, the best money you can spend first is for professional instruction at a reputable track school. Forget the titanium exhaust, ECU flash and dynotune and Ohlins shocks, and spend the money on track days and professional instruction. $0.02
I’m all about done lighter wheels, but if carbon fiber gets a Knick it tends to explode, which is why GP doesn’t allow it. That’s not enough confidence for me to switch to carbon.
whats the most mileage you had with one set of carbon wheels? longevity and durability are concerns cause I ride a lot.
@@180FiftyFive The wheels are DOT approved. I did many many track days with my bikes and even crashed one at Laguna Seca where the bike cartwheeled about 6 times before it came to a rest. There was even a piece of gravel wedged in the tire bead. Me and the BST CF wheels survived the crash but the bike didn't. In fact the engine, transmission, and wheels are the only parts of the bike that survived the crash.
Factory bikes come with CF wheels for many years now, and they wouldn't put them on a bike if the wheels were "fragile". Compare that to an aluminum or magnesium wheel where it's recommended to get them x-rayed if you crash it to make sure there are no fine cracks. Fine cracks don't happen as far as I know on CF wheels. CF wheels may chip from being hit by rocks, but it would be obvious if the wheel was unsafe, in my opinion.
If you are unsure of CF wheels you can always go with a forged aluminum wheel which are almost as light as a CF wheel.
@@wiggenvan That's not true at all. They don't explode. That myth has been repeated for over 20 years now. It probably started from one incident before the technology got better. They make helicopter rotor blades out of CF that are capable of withstanding a direct hit from a 50 BMG. I've talked to an engineer at BST and asked about all these myths than never seem to die. Show me some evidence of a CF wheel exploding because of a rock chip?
@@DucDNA thanks for the insight and sharing your experience. i'm asking because i don't ride on track at all but would consider getting CF wheels. my concern is of course how they handle potholes, the occasional poorly paved road, gravel if it comes to it.
i am not crazy about power on bikes but i love lightweight and flickable bikes, so looking to explore options to improve handling.
i haven't heard of manufacturers offering carbon wheels though, which bikes come with CF from the factory?
This is the first time i've seen in depth working on a single sided swingarm, that's very interesting, I always wondered exactly how the concentric chain adjustment was implemented, I'm more surprised by the fact that you can swap out the whole hub and not have compatibility issues, seems very un-ducati to me lol
Ducati hates you..as CC says...but .not so much here...
Ducati - 'We're not happy until you're not happy!' (Happy then Sad emoji)
im a 999 owner and I the compatibility issues are few and far between. It's shocking how many parts from the older superbikes are interchangeable (Pre-Panigale of course).
Enjoyed every second of this video and LOVED how you showed clips of each tool used in the process
How many people did an internet search for lightweight wheels for their bike after watching this? I did for my 899!
The scooter ride was epic!
Nice!! We have the same bikes. I had to drill and relocate the rear brake mount bolt back 10mm to make room for the 180/60 slicks. Works like a charm! Now I thinking if I should swap the rear hub to the large hub to run the 190/55’ on a 6” wheel too!
Your thoughts on carbon fiber Wheels if we could all afford it?
I fear CF wheels. I've seen them too easily damaged during tire changes.
Holy crap, he dropped a video. Your videos are awesome man, just wish you'd post more often. 🙏👌
I agree with you, it is the best mod you can make. I put Carbon Fibre BST's on my Aprilia RSV4 Factory and the difference was huge🙂
Oz wheels on my panigale make a significant difference in the twisters. Much better investment than an aftermarket exhaust.
I have a 20 R1 and swapped my buddy for his 20 panigale v4 speciale and I couldn’t even believe how big of a diff it was. You could instantly change direction on his bike with ease while my r1 was sluggish. I gotta admit In the corners the r1 feels much safer and sturdy compared to the ultra light feeling panigale. But the quick maneuver ability with the forged wheels is something that everyone should experience.
Great video.
Must say, I’m jealous of your workshop set up.
I really enjoyed watching the work involved. I am a mechanic so I appreciate when someone goes through the process and shows how to do it. I don't race, but I am going to find a set for my 1999 Supersport 900 and do this!
yup, wheels make the bike. And tire sizes are BS... I couldn't agree more.
Great eccentric info...wow are we way too much alike. I have a Daytona 955i w/ SSSA..so I know that feeling when your lifting, holding by straps, jeck..Hey, to spread the eccentric clamp MVAugust offers a nylon 'wedge' in their tool kit, IIRC you can buy it separately ..otherwise you can use hard wood wedge to spread it -w/o causing swinger damage ..Moving on ..I had a 999 for years , FBF race spec engine BCM 102mm overbore aftermarket Ohlins, Fast by Frank lightened internals ..all the goodies...but it was 80% road going. When I swapped OEM Marchesini w/ with aftermarket Marchesini 'forged' Kompe wheels...it was a definite improvement on track .however most of my riding was.road going...where my 999 became 'darty' not as 'planted'. Your just not riding on primo macadam when you are on the road...great video tutorial on eccentric R&R.. YES Ducati does 'hate you' which is hilarious , ..give Triumph a try, they 'love you' ..and you can actually get parts w/in 5 days, and hugely cheaper !!!! SUBSCRIBED !!!!!
I'm not surprised. Reducing unsprung mass is always beneficial. It's why upside down forks are great. Less weight allows the suspension to work more efficiently and, on motorcycles, lighter wheels generally allow for better turn in. Less rotational mass means easier accel and better braking.
"Make a great car (or motorcycle) and add lightness" as it's been said. Can ever go wrong with losing weight.
I had BST wheels on my Multistrada 1200S. They transformed that bike.
Nice video! Seems like your content is getting better and it was already good.
Found that out donkeys years ago. Light gyroscope easy flick heavy one hard to flick 😉
Did I spy, with my little eye, a ball cap with the WY flag?
Shout out from a Cody fam!
Man, I wish I could have found those. Ive been hunting for a mint set as well. I have the Marco/Brembo "Ultralights" in that style for my MV and they are insanely light for even forged aluminum.
I’m in the middle of switching my stock 3-spoke ’02 R1 cast wheels out for stock 5-spoke ‘04+ cast wheels (I think I got ’07’s) I got off eBay. They’re supposed to be a fair bit lighter. I’m even more excited to feel any difference they make after hearing your conclusion. Thanks!
(In case anyone is curious, I said, “in the middle of,” because although it’s pretty much a straight swap in back (that part’s done), it’s a much bigger project up front: new forks, new calipers, etc. The ”new” eBay ‘07 forks are currently being serviced and re-valved/sprung. I just hope it all fits together when I’m done!!!)
Thanks again, great video!
absolutely true! I swithced to OZ forged wheels on my Tuono V2 1000R and it changed completely
Yep, best money you can invest upgrading your bike.
great video, first of yours I've watched
I think you must be quite the sceptic, only believe something when you've felt the difference for yourself kind of person. Which is cool, but my point is I've only ever read from all different sources that lighter wheels is basically the single best mod a sport rider can make, that they improve every performance aspect of the bike..
That being said, I was absolutely shocked at the difference it made to my 996 when I switched to BSTs.
Going from cast to forged removed fourteen pounds of unsprung weight from my ‘09 rsv1000r . Thats huge
Your videos really good for me an ex mechanic. Get tired of the superficial homeowner type videos. Thanks for your work. Ducati to my dream bike. Riding 83 cb1100f and 2000 zrx1100 currently.
Reducing the weight of unsprung mass is for sure one of the best upgrades. Anyone who’s done this with their mountain bike can attest to this. The results are astounding obvious.
I bought BST CF wheels a few years back... they were easily the biggest seat of the pants performance change I've ever made to a bike.
Do you think the new tire shape (less squished) had a lot to do with the handling?
You CAN buy tires that are far lighter than other brands....I picked up a set of Michelin Pilot purse.....hugely lighter than the competition.....so instead of changing wheels, look to tire brand specs.
Great vid! I was kinda surprised you didn't though lighter and stiffer wheels would help. Like you said un-sprung mas close to minimum is always better, but more importantly for wheels is to get the centrifugal force down :) F=ma is a easy introduction to that discussion. Great to hear that the bike was better in acc, brakes and especially turning after the change. You know have much, much less resistance to combat every-time you are changing your directions and speed ;)
Looks like you enjoyed that project :)
Was Mike expecting you? He looked calmly surprised. Nice cnc machine.
He was. I don't think he was expecting the camera.
I could just watch you with that fpv camera cruising around the track with cool tunes all day.. nice..
If you can’t afford both, then just start with front. Really helps with turn transitions. Great Video!!!
Should have gone with a carbon fiber wheel 🤤
Very cool result, thanks for sharing the process as well! I have 2 special Ducati tools for my Monster just for that rear wheel/hub BFN combo but I never thought about it being that Ducati hated me. I just figured they needed more of my dollars than I do so they were doing a favor by lightening my bank account a bit more.
Hey which tire changer is that? NoMar? Great video by the way. Not even halfway done and already loving it.
Yep, it's the no mar. After we did this video, I got so many questions I did an entire video on it.
Great episode. Thanks so much for inviting us in.
Did you have to adjust the ........ DAMPENING? Lol. I'm getting OZ on my R1. Would like to know ahead of time to nip it in the bud.
Great job on showing us the whole process, I think it will help a lot of people.
Keep up the great content!!
Looks like an easy swap as long as you have all those special Ducati tools, lol.
A simple equation, 20% bet wheel’s for 200% more money thus why bikes that cost upwards of $100k have them and bikes nearer to $10k don’t 🤷♂️
I love these types of videos. great work
Where did you get that tire removal machine?
So many people asked the same question that I made this video; ua-cam.com/video/co_LAgEQK9s/v-deo.html
You DID NOT say “Bob’s your uncle”. Burt Munro is surely smiling down, if not Anthony Hopkins…
Nice presentation. If I change just the front wheel with a forged one and keep the rear cast stock, what do you think? Will I have the agility or what?
the key tuning things that everyone knows on bike is less weight in the wheels and a good pipe with optimazed software settings ..that is the most important ...and pads and brake master cylinder (if you want more bite)
Lighter wheels = lighter wallet! At least for the shirt term as the money comes back in much better fuel economy too.
I have always hated Ducati for the "hassle" of maintenance but THIS video you made Dave, is bringing me back to "wanting" a single-sided swingarm Ducati. If I am your neighbor, I will every day, knock on your garage door to ask you if you are doing a bike and if I can help or just simply stand in a corner and observe. I will load your stuff and I will drive for you. I will even be your cameraman or a chase bike. I'll pay your phone bills just so you let me. Kidding aside, thanks for this nice video, Dave. Now I am dreaming of owning a Ducati (who hates us) again.
6:50 I think axle nuts are always two different sizes because most people don’t have two of one size wrench/socket. If you wanted to do this manually, you’d need a wrench on each side. Just gives you a better chance of being able to remove the wheel with limited tools.
Nice background music, reminds me of Big Country.
I don't know about reliability...but omg...this bike is a jewel...Greetings from Athens,Greece!
"Little bubbles" are not why forged are stronger than cast. Google it.
Very entertaining and informative video !
Quality content as always..❤❤❤
I am not 100% convienced that lighter is always better. Sure, removing 2kg of rotating mass will have dramatic effect on the behavior of the motorcycle, but this is an act of balance between flickability and stability, so different requirements have to be met for road and racing driving. Spinning motorcycle wheels is what keeps a motorcycle moving and not falling while rolling, since the wheels are two big gyroscopes, and the heavier, the better for stability. For track, where everything is predictable, sacrificing some of that stability in favor of a more flickable handling can be beneficial, but not of the road. The real question for me would be, for ''better'' track handling, if it would be preferable to opt for a faster chassis geometry (call me shorter wheelbase, more triple clamp offset, higher rear/lower front end height, different weight distribution) or lighter rotating mass.
Well, I just put a set of the same wheels on the Multistrada, so we'll see. 😎
Can I clarify that this is the M10RS forged Magnesium wheels isn’t it?
Is there a 10-spoke forged aluminium wheels that marchesini produce?
They are OEM Ducati/Marchesisni forged wheels. Not off-the-shelf Marchesini's.
What i would like to add is that mass moment of inertia and the mass (weight) of the wheel are two different things. It is possible to have two wheels that have the same mass but have two different mass moments of inertia. The one with the mass concentrated closer to the axis of rotation will have the smaller mass moment of inertia and as a result will perform better.
Yes, exactly. I was afraid of going deep dive on this, but weight at the outside of the wheel or even a heavy/light tire can have dramatic differences. Like, a lot of the 4x4 guys will put on insainely heavy tires, but lighter wheels and boast "it's the same weight" - but the moment of inertia is now wildly different.
Great informative vid as always - Thanks. So would lighter wheels also be a worthwhile upgrade for road riding?
I was so impressed, I'm going to put a set on my Multistrada
@@CanyonChasers I have a Multi too - 1st gen, love it to bits - many mods -a little pampered! It would be greatly appreciated if you’d let us all know how they perform on some real roads please.🙂
any rotational mass weight reduction will make a difference. i.e knifed edged crank if your under 220 hp to the tires . lighter wheels , rotors and such over 220hp go forged crank ;-)
As someone whos been riding aprilias for years, and have been highly debating going ducati, but never gave the single swingarm into thought... yikes.. so much work needs to go into simply adjusting chain
Oh no, man. The SSSA is heavier and flexy but taking off and replacing the wheel takes less than 30 seconds. Adjusting the chain takes 1/4 of the time because there is no chain alignment to worry about. Conventional swingarms are measurably better, but SSSA are so, so, so much easier to work on.
So, Weight reduction-wise; the forged stock wheels on my 2021 Hypermotard 950SP are fine.
Yes they are. It's why the SP is so awesome.
19:15 this is great hahahaha
Should i go with forged wheels or carbon?
Awesome video and cool thing to see a rear wheel swap on a 1098, learned something new! You need to get an Abba Skylift especially for your bike. I have a one for my single sided VFR800 and it's the best investment I've made. I would love to find lighter wheels for my '06 R6 if I can only find them cheap
Great project, superb equipped garage.., so how many peoples tools do you have? 😃 But that's ok, If I was your friend I would also chip in some pliers, just let me also work on my bike inside! 😋😉
When you mark forged wheels as fragile 😂
I love seeing people at work!😂
Yes. Yes they do! Coming in to make this comment a year later! I switched from cast to forged aluminum and shockingly I felt a difference on my Multistrada.
Would love to put a set of these on my next build... just a little pricey.
You should be properly torquing the axle and wheel nut. using the impact is way too much torque.
It's supposed to be torqued to 176nm. My impact drivers max torque is 169nm.
Miller is the best track in America!🇺🇸
I ride an 848
You just gave me a great Idea for upgrading.
Awesome.
Love your channel
Nice thanks for sharing that. So that's why the Ducati S & R versions feel so different ... I gotta get some of those large spring clip pliers! ;-)
Very informative - thanks - watched till the end.
Chris’s lifting do-hicky = my next welding project.
Seriously. I love the thing. I'll be using it again this week.
For anyone without that pull-up bar and straps he used, you can use a car jack stand under each foot peg if they aren't foldable. Or put a longer metal pipe on each peg if you have clearance issues with the top of your jack stands and the bike.
1:51 whoa i know that track, its in Malaysia
No way! Thats crazy!
Wasn’t the new tire for the six inch rim a larger tire? If so, it’s also heavier and you would have to subtract that from your new rim weight savings. Definitely should have helped in the front!
Enjoy your content. What's your take on carbon wheels placed on 700lb cruisers?
Which tire changing rig do you use?
A Gen 1 No-Mar. They've gotten better since mine, but it's been an awesome product. No affilition, I paid for it years and years ago.
Great video, more than I would want to tackle though. You're the second person who changed to lighter wheels and raved about the positive results. I finally did it and I immediately saw the difference you spoke of. Thanks for the nudge, keep up the great work!
I know the acceleration and braking effects are not speed dependent, but do you notice the improvements in changes in direction only above a certain speed, or are they still substantial even on say hairpins?
This is why I went with the 899. Done with single sided swingarm shenanigans
Its a mixed bag, right? The SSSA is so pretty, but all the data says conventional swingarms are better - but the SSSA is so pretty!
@@CanyonChasers I might regret it if I ever get one, but until then, I will always want one… exactly because they’re so pretty.
Question is…. Would you feel the difference on a street bike? I always felt that if you are only chasing the twisties, the feeling would be negligible
When the setup is manic, I suggest changing the "flywheel" inertia Effect with heavier wheel. Opposite holds true
Better.. as in how many percent?
@canyon chaser
Were the gold wheels magnesium or aluminium?
Forged aluminum
No 1 friend for single sided swing arms is an ABBA Stand. Working on the rear end is super easy
What are your lap time differences?
Because I'm always coaching and never racing, I honestly couldn't tell you one way or another. I rarely get an entire lap all to myself.
That is quite the process... but a 1-time thing.
Also with that, you are changing the roll characteristic with the stretching of the tyre.
I really like it. Keep doing more videos. 👏👏👏
hi.. i have the 848 also... just wanna ask do you swap/change the 848 eccentric hub to bigger one(the 1098) or drill the axle hole bigger???
It's all detailed in the video. I swapped the hub from a 1098. Thats what allows you to run 1098 wheels.
@@CanyonChasers thanks..
Upvoted for using kilograms in the US.
Base 10 FTW. Measurements based on the size of one dudes foot is so medieval.
Hey Dave. A quick question and maybe a topic for a video. May be not. I change my own tyres but don't have a balancer. What's your view on balance beads? Cheers
Balance beads work great on vehicles that go the same speed/direction for long periods of time. LIke semi-trucks/lorreys. They do not work well in vehicles that accelerate, slow and change direction frequently.
You can get a balance stand on Amazon for less than $100. I have no idea if this one is any good, but it was the first decent looking one I saw: amzn.to/47mdugs
@@CanyonChasers thanks very much for the reply
Good Honest review. I've been thinking about doing same but there's other places I can get more out of and cheaper since bike is mostly stock.
GREAT video! Sub'd!
Now go for carbon wheels.. 😉
Your shop is my wet dream.
I was hoping that you'd have a high speed video comparison showing the different behavior of each one responding to settling after a speed bump. I'm genuinely curious to see the difference.
Hey I see that you're in Utah where at, also see you got a shop I got a 2011 848 Evo need to put together, can you help? Harrison Eurosport have a long wait time😫.
Call MotoStation and ask for James. MotoStation is our home shop. I was in there yesterday afternoon actually.
@@CanyonChasers Oh ok thanks, I really appreciate it🙂.
I bet ur an awesome dad. Adopt me
Im getting forged aftermarket wheels installed on my Acura Tlx type s right now hopefully it will make the shifting & everything lighter as well
Let me know. Cars are heavier than motorcycles, but I'll bet it'll make a noticable difference.
@@CanyonChasers You're correct sure enough the car is moving faster & it absorbs bumps better