THE ULTIMATE VIDEO ON WING CHUN VS BOXING
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- This video puts to rest the issues involving the "WING CHUN VS BOXING" debate. I have done and CONTINUE to train in BOTH. Boxing has dug me out of many situations in my life and do not think any one is a complete fighter without some minimal study of it. I do however, teach what I call B.C.W.C. (Brick city wing chun concepts) to a group of security and police officers and they have had MUCH success with what they use. My methods are NOT traditional, but they are noticeably some of WC that is functional in REAL LIFE situations. NO MARTIAL ART is complete! That said, WING CHUN is a joke in the hands of many who are the most respected "Masters" known to the public. In this video, I SET YOU FREE to train according to logical expectations and modifications.
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I was an actual boxer, I trained and fought in the ring. Boxing did not teach me realistic street defense. It DID teach me the importance of dealing with pain and stress and adrenaline and raw hateful violence in combat. Those were invaluable lessons. Nothing like getting punched over and over by someone who REALLY wants to hurt you. Later in life I studied Wing Chun. Put the two together, and you've got something.
You're the only Martial Arts channel worth subscribing to.
The Wing Chung community needed this video, thanks for clearing this whole Wing Chung Vs. Boxing debacle.
Thanks dude! Just saw this comment. Took a lot of flack for it (as usual lol). Good to see you "get it".
So the list of wing Chun punches you listed, would be legal correct ? I think wing Chun would better fit in a boxing ring over ufc/mma cause doesnt wing Chun not have ground moves or grappling ?
Exactly . Same concept with wing Chun using angles , fwrd energy etc
None of the wing Chun guys aren't adapting their sticking with the traditional and getting whooped , just like the one who faught the Chinese mma fighter . And did you see his latest video ? The wing Chun guy wants a rematch . Maybe he watched your video and you taught him lol
@@TheUmmahFightCamp I think one thing you didnt actually say ,but you showed it . The wing Chun guys are staying with the traditional wing Chun as to where the boxers aren not sticking with the traditional boxing . Some of them adapt to what works for them and wing Chun guys aren't
The key REASON this is an issue with wing chun is because of a lack of real uncooperative sparring.
Another problem with Wing Chun is that many practitioners believe that they have to fight in structured stance ( The stance that they practice their reflex drills ) . However the purpose of the stance is to train the student to use both hands equally. Not to fight that way . Also many of them never ever been hit .
Wow, this video blew my mind. I like the message that martial arts has to evolve and grow or else ends up like the dinosaurs. Subbed.
I LOVE your passion for Wing Chun! Great channel. New subscriber.
Boxing gloves change angles [covers center] and wrist profiles. The bareknuckle boxers adopted a stance VERY similar to Wing Chun. So "boxing" [gloved fighting] favors the boxer because you now have to punch "around" [this is why boxing punches became more rounded]. Furthermore, many techniques are blunted if we can't use skin sensitivity and the natural curve of the hand and back of the wrist. Ungloved in the street Wing Chun [used by one who actually knows how to use it] will DESTROY boxing. But Wing Chun is NOT meant to be used statically in a Siu Lim Tao form [because we're training both sides in a "mirrored" stance.] The staggered goat stance is only to remind us to use the 45 degree angle once striking for maximum structure and hip alignment just as boxing teaches to "pivot" when punching.
I love boxing and have trained in it. But it is Wing Chun which has saved my life on more than one occasion.
Tradition without understanding becomes empty. Also, boxing has an advantage because of desire and environment. Boxing actively spars and invites hungrier and more talented practitioners.
Chi Sao is NOT sparring. It is an exercise to read via sensitivity.
Wing Chun can also punch with impunity and not break their hands because we use a relaxed [and more powerful] strike with proper structure. Boxers [even Tyson] nearly ALWAYS break their hands in a streetfight because they often use wraps and gloves as a crutch and do not condition their hands.
I feel EVERY martial art has much to offer. Every person is unique and needs to find what works and fits their skills best. I just tire of MMA haters and WC bashers. They TRULY have no clue. The problem is tradition without context [as you state].
Most "masters" don't even understand the applications of the Siu Lim Tao [first form]. They are just pantomiming what was handed down without context. Sad. In my book, Wing Chun is one of the most effective, efficient and direct martial arts. However, many lack the talent needed to use it to full potential.
Great stuff. Glad to have found this channel!
Well said. Every word is on point.
Badass.
Well explained.
I doubt this guy trained boxing for real. Hands being wrapped is not due to lack of conditioning, but rather to allow extremely powerful punches to be repeated without likely hurting your hands. It is for entertainment purpose, not due to weak hands....smh. Plenty of videos showing boxers in a fight knocking out, or down guys with a jab, and no gloves. Gloves do allow variance to some extent, but boxers do not train off that as it will likely lead to injury of your wrists. Boxers do not need to use the same amount of force in the ring, outside of it against untrained, or slightly trained individuals. The reality is if you actually pay attention in boxing, it is the best self defense in general, until you can become quite proficient at your martial art. No, boxers do not lose just because they don't have gloves.
@@onepoundswallowtwopoundcoc3115 I have trained in Boxing and went on to Master and teach WC, and what this guy says is absolutely true. The hands are wrapped in Boxing, NOT for entertainment purposes.
And it is ABSOLUTELY done because of the many small bones within the hands and wrist. This is why EVERYBODY’S hands and wrist are weak. Not just Boxers. Stop being so easily triggered.
Facts are fact’s regardless of where they come from. And because Boxers fight multiple 3 minute rounds, you MUST wrap because the fist are not meant to punch the skull (which is one the hardest bones in your body btw) over and over again. YOU WILL EVENTUALLY BREAK YOUR HAND. A street fight usually won’t last that long so Boxers can get away with not wrapping. But Mike Tyson broke his hand after hitting Mitch Green in that street fight back in the day. And I believe Mike only hit him once and ran away. I remember seeing Mitch with his eye damn near closed. Probably got his Orbital Bones broken considering the way his eye looked.
But anyway, It’s just physics man. Not an attack on your skill or your Art-form. And WC practitioners don’t need to wrap because WC doesn’t punch like Boxers even though WC is called “Chinese Boxing” and “Stand-Uo Grappling”, the approach to physics are completely different than they are in Boxing when it comes to punching.
You are exactly right brotha. People talk a lot of foolishness about WC in combat videos not even realizing how many MMA Champions have added WC into their fighting without announcing it.
Anderson Silva (after retiring) said that WC saved his life in the Octagon. Jon Jones definitely used WC and every true WC Practitioner sees it. Thug Rose is a WC Practitioner just to name a few.
Erik Paulson was an old school MMA guy smashing people with WC back in the day, look that guy up. He shows some of the awesome Grappling aspects of WC beautifully.
Actually here are ten basic punches in boxing according to Jack Dempsey in his book Championship Fighting: Straight jolt/Jab with step.Straight right with step.Straight jolt using body whirl.straight right with body whirl.outside hook.right outside hook.right shovel hook .left outside hook.left upper cut.right upper cut.So according to the late Jack Dempsey there are basically 10 basic punches before u start adding in other boxing punches he did not mention
according to this guy we don't even do liver shots anymore...
You state it so clearly. The blind following of MIS-UNDERSTOOD tradition is a MAJOR mistake that so many martial artists make.
I was surprised you didn't mention that another KEY DIFFERENCE is that the realistic training methods of Boxing develop confidence and the ability to fight with much less fear of strikes while at close range. In Boxing training, you actually try to hit the other person. Sadly, in Wing Chun, they don't drill against real strikes or with real movement. They don't understand head shifting and stance shifting.
It's a crazy thing. They have forms which hint at all kinds of practical techniques but the practitioners don't understand these techniques because they never studied the basics of fighting. If they would first study Boxing, they might be able to make sense of the techniques in Wing Chun.
Mark Tennenhouse. Great statement of truth
Great statement of truth!!
Mark Tennenhouse GREAT STATEMENTS OF TRUTHS
this is exactly correct!! most wing chun practioners do not know how to take their wing chun outside of the box!!! My instructor said that Wing Chin works but one will never know if it really works unless they think outside of the box and take you wing chun against other martial artist and take it against the grappled and the boxer,take what you have learned I Wing Chun class and practice those moves and see what works and why it didn't work and what can you do to make it work. I went to a community college where they were teaching Karate. One of the guys was in boxing and college wrestling!!! the Karate instructor placed me up against this guy and he tore me up on 2 different sparing sessions!!! I went home and I thought about why this boxer/wrestler was beating me up!! the 3 rd session the instructor placed me up with this guy again and I tore this guy up!! every time we meet I tore this guy up!! what happened?? I learned real fast that if you think that your gonna go up against anyone in your Wing Chin traditional stance and throw these Wing Chun punches plan on getting your hindend handed to you on a plater!! take you Wing Chun go to the sporting goods stores see someone punching on a punching speed bag etc ask them to spare with you,get out of your Wing Chin Box and challenge them to a friendly fight!! then go to a grabbing class somewhere or a tae kwoon do center or go find a street fight challenge them in a friend fight ,use your Wing Chun!! There is so much to a fight to learn it!! look for open targets on your opponent ,you have about 3 to 5 seconds to win your fight so better learn to understand everything about what it takes to win a fight. Better learn body language Etc!! I have to agree with one of the persons commenting learn alittle boxing it will help. Hope this Helps there is still more to learn about a fight then what I mentioned go figure it out and learn it!!! Have a great day every one!!
Mark Tennenhouse Wing Chun itself is the problem. Go hold your fists at a vertical angle (like a wing chun practitioner) and try to punch while putting your back into it (I hope you don't injure your elbow). Now try it again at a diagonal or vertical angle like a boxer. Tell us which one seems more efficient?
Now you're gonna say: "But the wing chun practitioner can also adapt and throw diagonal punches". So then why not just practice boxing in the first place...?
No one stays in one spot when you fight. Sorry but what do you think a WC student is trapping...flies? Any fighter is going to move in no matter what you are doing. A straight punch is the shortest distance between two points. 1 of the deadliest WC strikes is a finger jab (to the throat or eyes) When then if you can't see or speak/breathe? "WC has the tools to defeat boxing." Uh yeah, hence this gargantuan debate. It's because it is the one reasonable style that can be applied to boxing because of boxing's angles. Martial arts should be a conversation. One should never disrespect any other martial art, calling it ridiculous or that grand masters don't know what they're doing. Ng Mui created it to be practical, effective and easy to learn. This comment is to hopefully keep your mind open to learn.
No eye jabs, no groin kicks. Thrusting fingers to the neck. Shift punch to the triangle
Where is your school located? I'd like to visit one day. That makes so much sense. When Dr. Leung Jan created Wing Chun he combined several arts together and 1800's western boxing was one of them. This is documented.
I am in East Orange NJ. Not far from New York city.
Always a pleasure to hear you say it like it is.
I started watching this video thinking this was the most annoying person I've ever seen in my life but by the end I couldn't find a single thing I disagreed with in the video.
David Boctor: I am that potentially "annoying person". First, I commend you for agreeing with me. Since I was right, that is a feather in your cap. I would like to say this though, many people have the tendency to see confidence as "annoying". Many people also, think someone who looks like me should not know as much as I do (not saying YOU think that way :) The fact is, many people who look like they know are actually hobbyists who are accepted by their kind. I have proven myself to be one of the more legitimate martial artists on UA-cam for over 6 years.
TheUmmahFightCamp, while i agreed with the opinions in the video, it was more the statement of its significance that struck me as over the top. Like, your video is good, but it didn't end the discussion or anything like that
TheUmmahFightCamp, though I wish I had more people like you over here to train with!
David Boctor: That is my point! At some point, the "discussion" should end and it just has to been DONE. You will find that I am light on "discussion". If the chop in ANY art works, or if elbows in ANY art works, something is not being done in WC that makes it effective. The answer is in training not discussion. Talking about any action must stop at some point with the action taking it from there in the way of proof.
Good video like always. Maybe a follow up video is show a demo fight where you use Wing Chun against a boxer. Break it down and show what works against a boxer.
In fact, seeing something like you are proposing was what brought me here at first.
Then again, the point he was making made me stay.
Brick City Wing Tsun. I love it. Wish I lived in NJ. My sifu was a cool guy who grew up in Southside Chicago. He had a boxing background as well. He says the same thing that you said. Refreshing! I know from street fights I used it in he was not lying and neither are you. Thanks for the video!
It's amazing how much power you generate (thus speed and accuracy) you have in your punches.
PS, I don't consider too many people out there masters. Using an old Chinese way of calculating what a true master takes, about 1 out of 1000 may become a true master. And that is just a master who has mastered their own arts, maybe another one of another 1000-5000 become a master as they test their skills with other arts and then refine or mix their own arts.
Finally, maybe one out of 1000 of those become so good that all arts are blended so well, they really could fight you while drinking a cup of tea. I have met one like that. My Kyokushin teacher had a Chinese master like that (that master taught music at the University and didn't tell anyone he knew martial arts until he revealed something one day in front of my teacher).
My current Kyokushin teacher is a master although he humbly denies it of Japanese and Chinese arts working on his around game. I consider you a master of many arts
Thank you. I wish you two could meet one day soon. ..
Also the most important is that wing chung is not known for sparring or actual matches.
Untrue. IWCO.
Stfu dont talk about something you dont know
Tell Em Sayf!!!! Love the knowledge you drop I try to apply it and SPAR daily like you said! I can’t do it everyday just yet but tryina get there! SALUTE!!!💪🏾💪🏾💯
Stuck Last: Salute!!!! :)
Also, boxers sparr regulary. They know how to take a hit without freaking out.
also in sparring, you quickly realise which techniques are reliably useful and which are useless, to be discarded.
Too many self-proclaimed Wing Chun Sifus on UA-cam.
Excelballer: I do not know who you are talking about, but if it is me you are referring to, I have this to say: I never said I was a wing chun sifu! It took me 6 years to even mention Wing Chun because the style does not matter to me. Next, I am 5'7 and a solid 190. At 5'7 where I am from you better be able to handle yourself and when I did not have the sunny attitude I have now, I had a good knuckle game. My thing is this: I do not care about style! You can try chi sau, a thai clinch or straight arm bar, my reaction is the same, Bite the fuckers nose off and spit it at him as he tries to breath out of it. Now take your gay ass comments to another channel.
ExcelBaller: I do not give a damn about what is Kung fu bruh. You do not get it. I was raised during a time where fists were the tool and not guns. I have SEEN people of ALL styles and NO styles get knocked out. Kung Fu is NOT biting someones nose off and you know it. If you want to practice it, okay, but cut the nonsense with what KF is. Next, my teachers were the PIONEERS of full-contact bare knuckle and that can be verified! I can give you the proof. Now, I am all about facts, LOOK at the top wing chun practitioners and it is bound to lose to every other martial art so long as it looks like it looks. If you have an issue with that, take it up with Bruce Lee if that chance happens.
TheUmmahFightCamp Respect, appreciate the content.
artom moradian nah bro martial arts isnt the same for everyone but yh we should show respect
Rasta BoomBoom ha, I forgot about this video since it’s been 2 years. My training has come so far since then; maybe this guy has learned a thing or two as well. Respect.
i find wing chun and boxing to have many similarities if a boxer looses the gloves and opens his hands they are not really that different , there might be small differences like palm being up or down but if you doubt me take up a old school Irish boxing stance and then open your hands and all of a sudden you are in a wing chun stance , there are more similarities but that is just a example
This is a truly fresh perspective, thank you
I love the principles in WingTsun or WC and i strive to knowledge the core concept when its time to show and prove thats to "move forward".
Think most people don’t understand the concept of ‘Art’. The common factors that make art is first its foundations, be it basic paint colours and brush techniques in painting or steps and shapes in dance, ingredients and tools for cooking and forms and drills (tradition) in martial arts. Once these are mastered you experiment and put them to the test and the reason you do this is because you are essentially trying to discover and integrate what you know into your own body and mind in order to be able to freely express yourself through the medium you have been practising without thinking. This frees your mind to let come what comes naturally (muscle memory) only then you can create and evolve your art with coherence. Tradition only teaches you the framework and preserves what has been filtered through generations but it’s up to you to make it work for you.
Your take on Wing Chun alone is remarkable and proves without a doubt that it can be absolutely devastating when applied in it's natural way of execution.
50k3r2: Thank you much!
50k3r2: Thanks!
Can you show ya a video of you frestyling or shadow boxing with wing chin so we can see how to move
He has a video doing that with a partner, but warning it is not outboxing a boxer with Wing Chun.
I guess what I mean is if you take out all the traditional nonsense of wing Chung by means of picking what really works by way of experiment it will be looking pretty close to what we have as boxing only in moderation for the streets. boxing, in my opinion, is really what works in competition. if it don't work it cannot be a part of it. so you add that to whatever else wing Chung has to offer as far as the street and we get street boxing.
Finally someone uderstands how martial Arts as it was used hundreds of years ago in real fights regarless of style.
What the best martial arts you would recommend for self defense in a street fight to learn. I know that some military self defense systems such as Krav Maga and Systema are most likely watered down in the public instead of what they teacher in the military.
Respect to boxing and the martial arts
Where do you teach at
Hey, you explained this really really damn well. This is a really good video you made, man. Actually changed some of my opinions.
Hell yeah. And that's without comparing the parry similarity and differences.
One thing that should be noted is that a lot of Wing Chun guys are actually really good on the kicks: straight kick and the check kick. The check kick is identical to the savate low oblique kick.
If I understand you, one of the things you said was about understanding the Wing chun forms as drills that give you skills that you can use on any position, not neccesarily from the exact position that it is taught on the form, as in the example you put of turning to create power. Is this the same on karate katas? How do you interpret, train and apply karate katas?
Shinwoo K: Gentlemen! This man gets it! Shinwoo, you are right on point!
I have taught my students for years about the fallacy of this exact issue. Wing Chun Forms and techniques are basically done to get your body conditioned for close quarter combat. But Chain punching and having your hands in that traditional Man Sao/Wu Sao position is really quite silly in real life. And whenever I see videos of Wing Chun vs ANYTHING on UA-cam I laugh at the comment section because people really think they're seeing real Wing Chun (from WC Masters), and they are not. But it's good, I'm okay with people sleeping on Wing Chun. It has served my brothers and Sisters from my school well for the past 20yrs to have the element of surprise on our side. And usually they become or want to become students. From BJJ to Boxing. Because my Sifu taught WC from a wrestling perspective because that's the Martial Art he spent his High School and College years practicing. And when I started teaching my own students I took it to a different level, and started focusing more on the Applied Physics of why it works or doesn't.
Learning WC has given me the ability to look at any Martial Arts Style and tell you why the style works or doesn't. And it's because we were taught properly and only stick to tradition to learn certain aspects of the art, and afterwards, just like any other artform, you play it your way. And if you can improve on any aspect of it, do it as long as it makes it easier to understand. But you must remember that WC has a certain group of concepts that if you don't follow them, you can't honestly say that you're doing WC because WC is a thing, it's not just a bunch of random techniques. And when done the right way, it's fascinating to watch. Great video Sayf!!
It’s funny how me telling the truth about what I’ve spent over a quarter of a century involved in triggers you. If you’re really interested I’ll send a couple of links for you to see what real WC looks like if you want.
ua-cam.com/video/S4Js425wE60/v-deo.htmlsi=-80ztYk4JPy_0mGs
@@UnjustVerdict And you have no idea how many guys like you that I’ve personally humbled in my 25 years of learning and teaching my own students. And like you I was arrogant as a young man when I first met my Sifu, who I thought was old to me at that time, because he was 45 years old and I was 31 yrs old and athletic.
And because I had some training in Boxing I thought there’s no way this out of shape looking old man could stop me. Needless to say I became his loyal student for 6 years until he told me that I had learned everything he had to offer me and it was time to get my own students.
I can tell by the way that you talk that you’re a keyboard warrior. And probably HARMLESS ( which is probably a good thing btw). So I won’t waste any more of my time.
But I say Instead of hating on something you obviously know nothing about, find a WC Academy ( Yip Man or Leung Ting lineage) and take that attitude in there with you. We loved when guys like you would come in pounding your chest. And believe me, we’ve had some of everybody come through. And many with intermediate to high skill levels in Boxing and Jui-Jitsu come in and fall in love with the way we teach Applied Physics and Center-line Theory. Which they were able to add to what they already knew and made took their existing knowledge to another level.
And as a result, turn into unassuming beast that you wouldn’t want to cross paths with in the streets, I assure you.
So like I said keyboard warriors are harmless. People only hate things that they’re jealous of or simply don’t understand. And both are easy fixes.
Go check it out for yourself “in person” and prove to whatever school you attend, that YOU’RE that baddest MF’er they ever saw, and shut the School down like and old Martial Arts movie
🤣🤣🤣
And then come back and give us an update on how it went. I’m dying to hear about it.
@@UnjustVerdict@UnjustVerdict My comments seem to be getting deleted for some reason, but I'll try one more time, and if it doesn't work this time, I'll concede defeat with no problem. The reason I say REAL WC is because of this. Allow me to recommend a video of REAL WC, in my opinion. "Could This Be the REAL Way to Use Wing Chun? Ft. Erik Paulson
This is how we do WC where I'm from because WC is ultimately grappling, but very few people talk about this aspect.
@@UnjustVerdictAre you a moderator for this channel? Because it’s strange how your comments don’t get censored but I have to carefully word mine for mine to post. It almost seems like something fishy is going on here. One question though, have you ever trained in WC?
I practice wing Chun and he is absolutely right about tradition. People are trying to copy ip man.
I have always thought that one advantage boxing has over many of the martial arts is that you practice much more against someone resisting you. Usually when practicing Wing Chun, you're opponent is not resisting you much. You have to hold back so the other person doesn't get hurt. It's difficult to make the adjustment between the "fake" practicing you do vs a real fight. Boxers have the soft gloves and padding on right away, so they can safely (relatively) beat on their opponent. IOW, boxers become PROGRAMMED to go for the knock out from an early level, where martial artists are more often taught to hold back to avoid injury when practicing. Not saying martial artists never spar with pads--it's just not used as often as a boxer uses it.
i would say as a guy that has trained in wing chun its the lack of contact sparing to weed out what works and what doesnt , and the idea that training drills for aquiring individual skills such as timing sensitivity to weight shift ect is directly applicable to the street , its not training drills dont replace real life experience against a non cooperative opponent
Love the vid and I think you nailed it, from what I have seen Boxers do a lot of sparring to find out what works and Wing Chun (traditionalists) do not do a lot of sparring. If they did we would see WC being used in a more fluid manner. I have always believed that Chi Sao etc were just training drills, not a blueprint for a fight.
i know exactly what you are saying and have been saying it to people who is willing to listen (pre-youtube days).
Finally! Someone said it!!!
Boxing's a sport. Boxers on the street use elbows & palms all the time. Boxing's conditioning, sparring, & competition's well beyond Wing Chun school .
It all depends on if. Your training for sport our. For the street
What about the body punches in boxing
Master Sayf, I am so sorry for myself, for finding your UA-cam so late. But so glad that I did. I am a practitioner of many arts but not mastered any of them but understood the concept of the real fight mechanics vs. unfunctional training that a lot of the arts have and got tired of defending about all the arts that I have learned including Taiji because there are butthole out these that abuse these arts. And I am talking about the so called "masters" that have made names for themselves. And that leads to all sorts of bad conclusion for the armchair fighters out there. In my life time, I have been lucky to have met true wing chun, Taiji, bagua, hung gar sifus who taught privately and silently. No more than 5 to 10 students. And I have learned from certified masters who have certificates on their walls that I feel like i could give them a run for their money. I also have learned from bad BJJ worshippers vs true BJJ practioners that are awesome and never claim they can whip anyone's arse. My current kung fu teacher who is also a black belt in Kyokushun under Sensei William Oliver, my sensei is very humble, in his 60's, looks like a musician and can kick our butts. I consider you one of my teachers and one day. I hope to get to come and train with you. Your wing chun knowledge and splicing is way better than most of the masters out there. Keep on keeping on.
Ed
Moi Wee: It is never too late :). Also, The late William Oliver is a legend around these parts.
use what it's usefull..
good video...
@@TheUmmahFightCamp
sifu Sayf, I wish I had met Master William Oliver. I learn mostly about him from my sensei. I loved that he never sold out to popularity and kept the martial art true.
I hope to one day to be able to open up my own school and when I can afford it, I look forward to inviting you for seminars.
And then we can just hang out and have tea and speak for hours on martial arts. We will be glad to host you in our humbles homestead.
Stay real and true as always
Much respect
I think this is a great video, however boxing was used in pankration which did include kicks, palm strikes gladiator tactics etc
You hit it right on the head, my friend. There is a difference between theory and application. You might have a sound theory, but then you need to learn how to apply it in the context of reality. For example, I view the "Straight blast" like the spinning back kick of Tae Kwon Do: it is something I would never use unless my opponent was already stunned...or unless I was fast enough to charge in and pull it off! For some reason Wing Chun is one of those arts (if not the ONLY one) where people view you as a heretic if you deviate from doing it "purely." In other words, try to combine it with the more dynamic footwork of Western boxing, and people go nuts! Wing Chun works in a certain range, just like Boxing, Judo, and Tae Kwon Do. The trick is you need to GET TO THE PLACE where it works...and that requires footwork that is much more alive than what you learn in the forms. Thank you for this video. Hopefully it has opened some eyes.
Greek Wing Chun Inc: thanks for you support. I got a few like you who actually train in WC in a real sense and know what I am saying here. I am merely trying to tell these people that if a chop to the neck is effective, If a kick to the knee is effective, If tripping people is effective than someone's WC is not only because I something THEY are not doing and not because of WC tools. my dear mom used to say, "the problem with common sense is that it is not very common".
I saw in some other video that you are certified to teach a handful of styles. I'm not sure where you are, and I don't travel much anyway, but it would be cool to have an in-person training session someday!
Geek wing Chun Inc: Sure whenever you are in the NY area, just contact me. NP. Look forward to meeting you. I am actually far nicer in person lol.
Aw man, you seem nice enough in video. Do you mean New York CITY? I actually live in UPSTATE NY.
Geek Wing Chun Inc: LOL! You caught one of my low key videos. I am on my best behavior in this one. :). I am in East Orange NJ. Hey, take a trip one Saturday down here! You can train, take the video back with you to view later. You will get much from it. When you plan on it, just email me at: ummahcamp@yahoo.com. The summer is coming!!!
It entirely right but someone has to remember the traditions
There's also an adherence to tradition in boxing. Trainers/coaches tend to have an "only boxing" mentality, when the techniques, mechanics, and anatomy of the body remains similar if not the same across all martial arts.
Very true!
TheUmmahFightCamp Thank you for the feedback! Been on a binge watch of your channel all day. Keep em uncomfortable with the real talk!
Its mainly 8 short punches ( without turning the punch) which is only effective against an unaware person with his or her throat exposed(all them attacks are for the throat) and that advancing step get you killed along with that useless kick
Can you make a video explaining the blocks and their usage and if they can be practical? Gotta admit sometimes in my boxing class or even at jiu jitsu theyll do a block which is not the standard guard and im thinking to myself "thats some wing chun shit"
nickbegmin: I will do just that!
Thank u sir, Wing chun is a powerful and effective art when used correctly!
Never commented on a UA-cam channel before. However, I can not agree with what you are saying more. This is exactly how my Sifu teaches us, the stances are just a weight vest to help you train. But Wing Chun starts from any point the aggressor wants to start from.
Traditional boxing punches use a vertical fist the same as wing chun.
It seems to me.....when the fight involves wing chun vs wing chun....its seems so hollywood.....but then it involves street fighter (which is 99% of the time) wing chun seems to try and adapt to the street fighter rather than the fighter trying to adapt to wing chun.....Coach Carter said it best...."we dont play their game....we make them play ours"
Where are you located at
East Orange NJ. Not far from New York city.
There is also an uppercut in Wing Chun [though it's different than boxing]. Probably more than I'm thinking of at the moment.
David Williams: True Dave and welcome. Sayf C
Excellent video, Mr. Carman / Ummah Fight Camp.
You count straights up an down as four punches in Wing Chun but not in Boxing ;)
Excellent presentation and lesson.
This man speaks the truth!
4:41 you forgot boxing right cross 7 left cross, over hand 8. left and right curl to ribs 9 round house punch 10 hay maker 11 low upper cut to solar plexus low hook to body as opposed to hook to head12
Chris Symonds: I cannot take an hour to mention every combination. Plus, too many ways to fight is not conducive to real fighting because you do not perfect what you have.
Chain punching vs punching
This vid is an eye opener.. thank you.
Al: Thanx!
As you said it`s the person not the style. Bruce was a good example. I am happy to train Ip Man Classic Ving Tsun until I die as for me I felt limited for years learning it but I broke through the barrier then it became natural to me as breathing. First you become the slave then it becomes your slave! You made a good point though you have to train in it before you discard it..the end goal is to use no form as form like climate change is always changing!! haha
It doesn’t work because it’s so complicated, and you just demonstrated it again that with this video. The average guy of the street if push comes to shove his natural instincts are to throw punches, this has been built in to us as we evolved as humans, to stay alive. Under stress remembering all the foot positions and bend this knee this way and blah blah, goes out the window, just like Aikido.
The wing chin which was taught by chan wah shun was the proper wing chun. But, other masters have modified it so much that some techniques doesn't work.
Stop with the real wing chun crap. Every branch says they are the real wing chun. Ip man branch isn't real. Emin Bozepe isn't the real wing chun. RedBoat wing chun is the real wing chun. The fact is make it functional. Not based on thoeries or concepts but on actaulity of the use of the techniques us. My lineage is the Lee Shing lineage. Which was I allowed to learn by a friend of my sifu of northern shaolin. Then I was expose to Sifu Marty he knows both long version and short versions of wing chun. Through both of them through conversion wing chun is based on structure. It boils down that it not tradition it structure. Which allows you to apply these techniques functionally. I use wing chun trapping against wing chun traditionalist and bet them with less knowledge of there lineage. There is a time and place for the traditional footwork. Then there a time to not. Most traditional wing chun guys is only stuck in traditional movement and stuck in a fantasy word.
@@davronshumpert1966 Samuel Kwok of the Ip Man lineage trained boxers and even did seminars with Rickson Gracie. He's literally a hard contact teacher. Great guy for his age and still in excellent shape.
@@i-evi-l That is great he is one of the top well known Wing Chun practioneers and Shifu. Teaching Wing Chun to others is great. Making it functional without biases is another. Like saying a bong sau or tan sau should be done like this. I experience chi sau with Prey Mantis and Wing Chun. See I don't believe in fix position but applicable position. sometimes I might use the bi jong. Sometime hybrid stance. Sometime a San Sou stance. What ever seems more applicable for the situation I am in. Sometimes I weave in and out of each stance to gain an advantage. The truth be told Wing Chun is like a religion everybody saying they are the real wing chun. Instead of following the word they follow their own ambitions. Which weakens the out come. That affects how the raws delivery of the system should be.
@@davronshumpert1966 here's a fun Sam Kwok video for you.
ua-cam.com/video/YE6FKFsCiOE/v-deo.html
@@i-evi-l he even trained bareknuckle boxing champion Paddy Monaghan
Friend I strongly disagree. If anyone wants to beat a boxer in a fist fight, they'll have to fight like a boxer. Like you demonstrated here, they hold their fists at a vertical angle. When I tried this, my punch was much slower and my funny bone started to tingle. I feel like If I put my back into it, my elbow will get injured. Those wing chun punches are not strong enough. Why would you ever wanna do that instead of holding it at a diagonal angle. There is a reason why boxers fight this way for over a century. Same reason why you "only" have 5-10 punches in boxing. There is no reason to have more, because in the ring you'll soon find out that your new punches are inefficient.
So, yes a wing chun practitioner can beat a boxer in a fistfight, If he fights like a boxer himself. Yes a wing chun practitioner can beat a muay thai fighter in a kicking fight, if he fights like a muay thai fighter himself. Yes a wing chun practitioner can beat a grappler, if he learns how to grapple himself. So....they might as well learn those fighting styles to begin with.
if one throws punches in Wung Chung with boxing flow it will become boxing. it's that simple. whatever elements effective will stay (whatever creates leverage and so on) and whatever useless will go away. and then it will be same thing as boxing. of course you also have elements like eye strikes and so on in Wung Chung. so then it will become dirty boxing. then there will be no need for Wung Chung to exist as a separate ma.
konpoy: No it is not that simple. "Flow" is simply "stringing" punches together effortlessly. What is boxing? A wide almost karate horse stance like Floyd or a style like Lomachenko? It is all boxing because of the techniques being used! Wing Chun techniques are fouls in boxing so it will never be the sport of boxing. Next, Dirty boxing is a name newbies came up with! It was not called that 30 years ago. It was pugilism and Marques of Queensbury rules boxing.
TheUmmahFightCamp I think his point was that if you apply Wingchun to boxing, then you’d only want to “string” certain punches together.
Fair point that boxing is a sport, but, for being a sport, boxers, I imagine, get wayyyyyy more actual hard sparring experience than older forms of martial arts like Wingchun.
The only way to be ready for a random fight-is to actually fight. (So you think if you’d started with Wingchun, instead of other disciplines, you’d have gotten as much actual fight experience?)
Also, what I’ve always wondered is how a straight up arm punch is ever going to hurt a boxer who is used to taking shots from people who really sit down on their punches? (Where’s the weight behind the Wingchun straight punch?)
Asalaam Aleikum Ramatullahi Wabarkatu my brother keep up the good work and may Allah SWT bless and keep training the future of our beloved Ummah
Mashallah
Anthony Alvarez: Wa Alaikum Musallaam, Thanks!
TheUmmahFightCamp Can I ask what Martial Art systems do you guys teach?
Anthony Alvarez: I teach Combatives for the most part. In private classes by appointment I teach: Gi grappling, Wing Chun concepts, Silat, Wrestling for street and sport, Boxing for street and sport, The KA system of karate, Budo (full-contact) Karate, MMA.
TheUmmahFightCamp In regards to Wing Chun, what lineage do you teach and I have another question, is it permissible for Muslims to learn Dim Mak?
Anthony Alvarez: I never talk lineage with Wing Chun and most other styles, because it is the function of the technique that matters. History only interests me when my knowledge is questioned. Other than that, so what!
because the don't fight with a real figther?
Well... that was well said.
You said what Bruce lee was saying in a different way and with demonstrations, great vid.
Ryo hazuki: I still do not get why people can't wrap their minds around what Lee said many years ago about fighting in general. He was WAY ahead of his time!
Bruce Lee said that all traditional/classical Martial arts are all (tombstones) Bruce Lee
Is Kung Fu Jesus 🤗
Also, there are more rules in boxing
very true.
Great Vid!
Seen a boxer or a guy using boxing technique knock out a karate guy at a karate school here on UA-cam
Andre Lewis: That happens. I have seen karate guys KO boxing guys. In fact, one such event is why I went into Karate for a "back up".
@@TheUmmahFightCamp I'm late seeing this but that's awesome
Rather then giving lecture go to the boxing ring and prove it.
This keith ellis i love your information
Homer Ellis: U new?
TheUmmahFightCamp yes im new
Homer Ellis: Welcome!
TheUmmahFightCamp. Asalaamu alaiyka Thanks we need more good teacher like you
Great video
5:06 George Foreman used the over hand a lot but he was a big guy. type of punched you use depends on your opponent
This is a very interesting video, I don't agree with everything which is to be expected, like the punches, I'd say we have 8 punches in the wing chun I do, and the palms (which are delivered the same) and the Fak Sao's (not chops as you called them, they are delivered in a straight line not a curve connecting with the edge of the hand near the wrist) and the turning stance is not a turn per say it's more of a body weight shift onto the one side/leg taking the head off the centreline and use the outside line but I get what your saying. Really what your saying is make the style "your own" more like boxers do or "express yourself" as Bruce Lee would say
ninjafeet7: what I do is b the martial arts DOWN to the point where people can understand it. Too many people want to show how much they know by using the jargon. I used the word "chop" because that is not only what some of the best WC masters like MARK PHILLIPS and others call them, but that is what people understand. It is really great to use the term FAK SAO, but in truth, it does not help people to understand WC. It can be an exercise in ego.
@@TheUmmahFightCamp I see what you mean by using the names but I was just thinking of the Wing Chun people out there watching your video which like I said was interesting and I've subscribed now 👍🏼
The other thing that others forget is that yeegeekimurma (goat clamping stance) is a training stance that is deliberately unstable in order to train your balance, it is not a fighting stance and that is why it is only used in the first form as that is it's place, it is just to be taught to beginners to strengthen their legs and improve their balance.
When you say that there are more techniques in wing chun than boxing, it is not an advantage it is the disadvantage, as boxers lets say they learn 4 punches (jab, cross, uppercut, hook) so each of those techniques they have practiced hundreds or thousands of times and that is why they have taken those basic tools and adapted and made them their own. Wing chun is a compact system, but the hand techniques alone are all the punches, palms, finger strikes, phoenix eyes, elbows, gouges, grabs, claws, every single block, and that's not even starting on the legs.
So if they tain for the same period of time the wing chun person will not be as proficient with their techniques as will only of done each technique maybe a few thousand times instead of the hundreds of thousands of the boxer, therefore the boxer will perform their techniques better as they have practiced them more.
The other big problem with wing chun vs boxing fights is the wing chun guys go straight into the boxer's boxing range and try to out punch them. This is not martial arts, martial arts says attack where your opponent is weak, avoid what is strong. Therefore they should never trade blows with a boxer, they should try to exclusively use the ranges that the boxer has no experience and so is uncomfortable in, and punish them every time they attempt to find their range. So they should stay at long range and kick the legs, there is no reason to ever go into boxing range, if they advance too fast and you cannot maintain the distance then close on them into grappling range which again their training has not provided them with any tools so are at a massive disadvantage if you are throwing elbows.
Their guard is also not so effective without gloves and I have punched straight through a boxer's guard, I have also elbowed a boxer's hands into their face as they subconsciously left the gap that would have been the cushion from their glove, making their guard completely useless.
But I do completely agree that wing chun done properly should not look like wing chun as once you are good enough to really use it you should have adapted it and made it your own style/flavor
Thanks for sharing the video some really nice insights there :)
You still alive Sayf?
Yup lol. Did a workshop and was out of town for a bit. Back now.
Wing chun looks good but limited to an extent Bruce Lee moved away from traditional martial arts because of this the encounter Bruce had with Wong jack man Bruce hasn't developed jeet kune do yet
No, you are wrong on that! You make some good points, but the ones who lose to boxers DO NOT know the entire traditional system, which is a complete system, and includes the proper footwork(the circle inside the triangle), proper way to close the distance using initial contact, an angled step to the outside of the attacking arm, and a body rotation towards the attack, which allows them to see the attack coming and stop it. They also do not use all ten concepts, which take out all initial flaws found in other systems (like not keeping your hands in the center/protecting the center, overcommittal of a response, going past center temporarily when punching or temporarily putting most or all of the weight on the front leg when punching), which is taken out by the ten concepts, and gives TRADITIONAL (not modified) wing chun, its incredible flexibility! That is the ONLY way wing chun will work fully at its most effective and efficient. One more thing. YOU CANNOT MIX WING CHUN WITH ANY OTHER SYSTEM!! THAT DESTROYS THE WING CHUN BECAUSE TRADITIONAL WING CHUN IS THE ONLY SYSTEM THAT RUNS STRICTLY ON CONCEPTS, WHILE ALL OTHERS (including modified wc and JKD) EITHER RUN ON TECHNIQUES OR A COMBINATION OF TECHNIQUES AND CONCEPTS, AS IN JKD! When you add boxing techniques, you are adding inherent flaws found in the boxing system, as well as stiffness and rigidity, and limiting your responses as well! The only way to use wing chun is to learn the ENTIRE traditional system and practice properly!
You know literally nothing about boxing. From there, your entire reposes falls apart.
Hello sir, I do Wing Chun from Grand Master William Chun & my Sifus in New Zealand are Joe Mohengi (He defeated kick boxers, boxers, karate, kunfu, wrestlers, street fights, in & outside the ring : New Zealand, Australia, International Champion 3 years) & Dale Masters, Dale also teaches kick boxing, ground fighting. We do not do Stiff Pegion Wing Chun. Our foot work is always 50 % weight on each foot & we lift our feet. Foot work eg : side step, forward, retreat. Using foot work to get into a better position attacking opponent, staying balanced. My punches are as strong as yours because of 50/50 even weight distribution on each foot. Wing Chun has hook punches, uppercuts, long rang kicks. Sparring & fighting is free style. Basics, forms, techniques works when one understands the concepts & principles of Wing Chun. Not this other watered down STIFF PEGION WING CHUN - where they are dragging there feet & weight on back leg weakening there punching power.
What you are doing is a evolved version of wing chun which is great by i lot of of places don't do this
Well Said. ....!!!!
Nikos Antoniadis: Thank you!
TheUmmahFightCamp ...You..Are Si Fu!!!
Liked and subscribet
So there's no form of martial arts that could beat a boxer?
Wing Chun was not designed for sparring, it was to eliminate your opponent in seconds
Sayf
What happened to you lol?
Peace
gasdemup: Sorry dude! Lets shoot for Saturday.
Yes, and the HORIZONTAL fist is horrible! It DISLOCATES the arm from the shoulder socket, causing a LOSS OF POWER DOWN THE ARM, just like in a circuit with a resistor!! So that is why boxers NEED to torque and totally rotate past center ( A MAJOR FLAW!), WHICH OPENS YOU UP FOR ATTACK! THAT IS WHY BOXERS GET HIT SO MUCH AND THERE ARE KNOCKOUTS! In wing chun, we use the VERTICAL FIST, which keeps the arm in the socket, thereby allowing the power to flow FREELY down the arm to the fist. THIS IS ALSO WHY WE CAN PRODUCE COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF POWER AT ONE INCH OR LESS, AND BOXERS CANNOT!! Power is mass times acceleration (as a basic equation). So, who will produce more power? The boxer who is only using his arm and fist as mass, or the wing chun guy, who is using his WHOLE BODY behind the punch (due to the vertical fist, alignment of all the joints, a slight body rotation and forward movement)?? Again, it is the wing chun guy! Try this experiment to prove my point. Outstretch your arm in front of your body straight out, with the horizontal fist and the elbow out, as if you are punching and hold it out. Now have someone take ONE FINGER and push down on your arm. You will see it does not take a lot of pressure to push the arm down because it is dislocated from the shoulder socket. Now rotate the fist to vertical, place the elbow behind the fist, drop the shoulder and relax it and have someone push down the same way, this time, let them use two or three fingers. Remain relaxed and let them push down on your arm the same way as before. You will notice it takes way more pressure to push the arm down. This is because the arm is now IN the socket, and the joints are aligned, so the energy now travels down the arm, the shoulder socket, to the ground. This shows that the alignment of the joints allows the energy to flow freely down the arm, so no power is lost down the arm, and less torque is needed. This means that the power flows down the arm without any loss, allowing the full power to go through the fist. This is also why we can produce power, as I just said, in a very short distance and boxers cannot. What they will do is push, not produce any focused energy, like a laser beam, as in wing chun.
I was expecting to see a match to prove something
mkfourgli: The BEST proof is for YOU to box someone who uses Elbows, kicks, Knees ...
Why one vs the other? Train both
Probably the masters does not one their Wing Chun to be corrupted by the supremacy of Boxing? Lol!
Lol
it's never the best matial art it's about the training and the person
we need REAL fight instead of TALKING TO MUCH about wing chun VS boxing
win chung sux, that's all to IT
booboo 1965: I have beaten the crap out of ALL styles in my life, but if you think WC sucks no matter who uses it, how about fighting someone good in it and sending us a video. That will help LOL.
That's because boxing SUCKS and is SO FLAWED, YOU HAVE TO MOVE OR ELSE YOU WILL GET TAGGED WITH PUNCHES IN BUNCHES like I said before! Boxing has MAJOR FLAWS that are inherent in it, so if you don't move, or bob and weave (a big waste of energy), instead of just protecting the center by keeping your hands in the center and stepping and rotating (a lot more efficient and effective), you will continue to get hit, and get knocked out by the hook, because of the crappy footwork (linear) that keeps you directly in front of your opponent. You also do not have any sensitivity training so you cannot sense the type and direction of the strike as well. Again, this is garbage! Boxing is good for the ring, but NOT for the streets as an effective form of self-defense!! It is incomplete, flawed, stiff and rigid, and crappy!