Kalanluu's pp Record Broke osu!...
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
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Corrections
0:23 -GN got his player title Champion Above Champions for his FC on Shotgun Symphony, not The Unforgiving (Thanks to Talentless Commenter)
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The 1k pp barrier has always been one of, if not the most historic barrier to break in osu!. It took 12 years just for the first 1k pp play to be set (thanks Vaxei), and it still remains one of the toughest challenges osu! has to offer. However, players have gotten to the level where 1k pp plays can be set with relative ease in comparison to before. In fact, with enough skill and the right skillset, players can set 1k pp plays much easier than before. Most 1k pp plays in osu! use doubletime. However, DT 1k pp plays in osu! are more oversaturated than you might think. There are barely any 1k pp plays that do not use doubletime. But traditions were meant to be broken. Recently, Kalanluu set the osu! standard pp record with a 1253 pp play on Because Maybe! pt. 3 with EZHTFL. Not only does this play break the norm of the osu pp meta, it breaks the game as a whole, forcing the newest pp rework to nerf flashlight. This play is crazy, crazier than it looks at first glance. Let's talk about it.
Massive thanks to Kalanluu for giving me his insights!
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oh and the pp record is no longer Zan'ei let's gooooo
#osu #osugame #record
The Champion Above Champions label was given after -GN fced Shotgun Symphony, not Unforgiving fl.
that title is a meme
@@Remyria no
@@Remyria no
@@Remyria no
@@Remyria no
get ready for every person ever to comment that champion above champions wasn't given to -GN for the unforgiving
well… because it’s like common knowledge and isn’t very hard to find out on your own so it just shows poor research which will reflect on the rest of the video?
@@cauldy7044 agreed
Kalanluu has a point, but i think he doesn't realize how hard his plays are to other people. While it is 700 to him, i think 850+ is a fair number.
he downplays his skill because hes really good at that mod combination
True, I think his play should be worth 900, I believe he has a really really good memory, so he thinks his plays shouldn't be worth that much
hes saying this in a system where the unforgiving is weighted as a 600pp play. hes keeping the scaling relatively consistent, with because maybe around 100-150pp harder than the unforgiving. in a system where the unforgiving is around 700 (which i and a lot of other fl players prefer), because maybe would be about 850-900, which sounds a lot better
@@livium1297 His Because Maybe EZHTFL play would be 893 pp in the next rework BTW
i'd say 900-950. that play is impressive
my boy kalanluu is way too humble holy
I feel like kalanluu is nerfing FL a bit too hard. Some of his points are valid but like the fact that a 30 second dt map can be worth as much as his play is insane to me.
(Anyways great video and keep it up i love your vids)
a 30 second dt map can not be worth as much as his play since like 2017 lol
Hashire sori yo
Kaze no you ni
Tsukimihara wo
Padoru Padoru
Hashire sori yo
Kaze no you ni
Tsukimihara wo
Padoru Padoru
@@teovinokur9362 3 mod scores mainly but there are still a lot
just because a map is short does not mean it's easy. There is only 1 30 second long 1k pp play, and most 1k pp play are on long maps.
@@teovinokur9362 haven't you seen padoru 3mod last diff?
We honestly need like a kalanluu interview or smth cuz i think everyone wants to know what goes on in his mind when he's setting these inhuman scores
Yes, I need to know what ever he is smoking to underrate the value of his plays by so much
It's nice to see you having sponsors now. You totally deserve some money for these great videos
The Champion Above Champions medal was actually given to him for being the first hidden FC on Notch Hell
no it was given to him after his stream comp fl fc
cheeto
@@gh0sty5 shotgun symphony
it was actually given to him after SSing the tutorial with HDHRDTFLPF
Nah it was given to him for his United +HDHR FC
I'd like to draw some comparisons to playing the piano. As a person who has played 30~40 minute long Beethoven sonatas (without sheet music), memorization isn't actually too difficult. Granted, memorization in osu is vastly different from the piano, as you need to memorize position on a 2 dimensional Cartesian coordinate system. However, on the piano, you must memorize changes in tempo, dynamics, accents, intonation etc. Therefore, while different, both have their respective challenges.
This leads me to my conclusion. It's all to do with a difference in player culture. While on the piano, it is standard practice to work on a select few pieces for dozens of hours. While on osu, most people tend to sight-read, or do very little practice on a single map. This is of course, without a doubt, because osu is a game where people want to have fun and explore as many maps as possible. While on the piano, perfection on a piece is considered imperative if you were to take it seriously.
Now, this isn't to say that Kalanlou's plays are any less impressive, but it does lead me to believe that it is overweighted. I have no doubts that there are many others who could also memorize marathon maps, given plentiful practice. But then again - would you want to?
Lol people think I'm a child prodigy by memorizing the capital, location and flag of every country; it was not that hard at all I just needed to have patience
He says it is overweighted
And yet
There are so many pp hunters out there
But no one with scores like his
Taking only one person into consideration for completely nerfing it is not a reasonable thought
If it's overweighted it'll first need to get proven by having the 1k pp club be as filled with ezhdfl records as it's filled with hddt, the same goes for hdhr
Justice for ezhtfl and hdhr!
2:20 pp system is not biased toward dt. But it's easier to set 1k on dt because there is literally thousands of 6* jumps maps that become 9* after dt. Now look at how many 9* maps are ranked and how many of them are actually farmable. Most of them are tech maps or high quality shitposts(conceptual maps). Only happy song looks somewhat 1k whitecatable(patterns are still not very simple). Maybe some stream maps but they tend to have really hard stream shapes or 1/4 sliderspam on 240+ bpm. It's not about dt being overrated but mappers who dont map 9* farm maps. Or rather, there is not a lot of songs that are 250-280 bpm and also simple enough to be mapped as a farm map.
I'd say it's not biased toward DT but High BPM. Even if there is so many 6* jump maps, there are also some ~9-10* no mod maps, but there's close to no such high level plays on them. I mean, the ratio of non-DT top plays to non-DT top maps, seems to be much lower than DT top plays to DT maps - there's less non-DT plays than you would expect to see if they were equally as difficult.
I think a combination of high BPM jumps is just overweighted compared to lower BPM stuff.
I also feel like this from personal experience. I'm a no mod player. I can't read AR10. Yet, I can get pp much easier from HDDT maps. Getting a ~200pp play on the easiest DT farm map I know is similar difficulty to me as getting ~150pp on the easiest no mod farm map I know.
@NoelTree - osu! difficulity of dt 9* compared to most of nm 9*. 9* is just where most of 1k pp dt scores are, there is some that on lower sr, but thats usually lenght buff (like FrE compilation II - 6 minute marathon after dt). Same thing with said destroyer which is also 6 minute marathon but on nm
The problem is that you literally used the word "farmable". what does that mean? it means that the pp system is biased towards it, so you can "farm" it to gain pp easier than playing other maps. I've said this over and over, in an ideal pp system you CAN farm those 9 star tech maps as long as you're good at them.
Welp we can't measure that stuff until more players has a playstyle like him
honestly 800 pp for the fl fc on because maybe and 1000 for the unforgiving, mostly because the unforgiving is almost double the length
unforgiving is a lot slower but i guess
Because Maybe EZHT is much harder than the unforgiving.
Literally no one who actually plays fl agrees with your opinion
I'd say 900-950 for an FC considering everything he said, 750 is just downplaying his own skill set. It's like someone with infinite stamina downplaying a 250 bpm 15 minute stream map and saying it's the same as a 1 minute 250 bpm stream map, it just takes 14 minutes longer.
bpm*
Yeah I feel the same
Tbh the reason all the 1k pp scores are set with DT is because of the lack of nm maps at that star rating, like NM farm maps cap out at like 500pp, before u have to start farming crazy streams and jumps are worthless, it’s not the fault of anyone but the lack of egregious nm farm maps
or the fact is that nm maps are harder and dt maps are overweighted
@@ciel448 weird way to say that there are 50 billion 6* maps and barely any nomod/hr 1k maps
@@rekunan weird way to say sqrt(distance)/time
@@natelytleroblox TRUE
I completely agree with the EZFL nerf, lower AR makes flashlight so much easier. A while ago I was seeing people talking about differences between ar11 fl and low ar fl and people were saying there is no difference as it is still memorisation but as someone who has played flashlight a good amount it is so much harder with high AR. These ezhtfl plays are definitely overweighted at the moment
I think htfl is overweight because ht only increases length and not how many objects you have to memorize, so essentially the difficulty is easier since you are still memorizing the same things but just slower. So fl shouldn’t scale with length but with strain?
that is not how it works
@@MBmasher yea I don't really know what I'm talking about
This is definitely worth 1000pp, fl ain't playing around especially getting such high combo will only decrease the view point of the approach light.
EZ ain't Easy! HT is not either!
EZ and HT arent easy TO LEARN. Sure it takes a lot of dedication. But as soon as you master it, and those are 5*s without FL, you can play it well.
I believe the same score without FL wouldnt even be worth 300pp. But FL becomes even easier when you have low AR therefore it defo be nerfed imo
Edit: And FL radius only decreases to its max at 200 combo, after that it stays the same
@@knuffkirby5093 Okay good point, but consider this.
tbh I kinda disagree, that putting EZ into the weak mod spot, yeah true, when you master it you will play much better, but when you think about it, even the beginner of osu players can't even get started to easily play with, even myself at first go play other mods more often instead. Cause EZ is just not Easy to get into.
And then the standard FL mod is pretty underwhelming for the pp system, it gives out too little than expected, sometimes it feels lot worth to play other mods instead, like DTHD's pp, FL will be way out of bound If it's even nerded. Like is there any reason to want to play FL when other mod give out better pp.
HT is fine, on longer map it will only make it even longer, no it will not only make the map easier, that's one part that's still difficult, you will need more stamina and strength to be able handle that even long length, not everybody can handle too long of a time range.
PP gives more only encourage more people to try it, so
Therefore I think it's definitely worth at least 1000pp.
(btw oh, I didn't know about the FL 200 combo max thingy, good to know)
when n3rd told me to see it for myself to believe it I checked to see how long the video was out of fear 💀
i think the proposed nerfs on the length of a beatmap with flashlight seem too harsh, im not sure why he feels the need to not take into account the MASSIVE amount of practice that some of these plays can take to actually perform. like sure, maybe it’s not hard to actually do it once you’ve put the practice in but there aren’t many people who have the mental fortitude to dedicate themselves to those plays, hence why they reward a lot more pp
Learning a map with flashlight is the same as people learning any other skill set. Its a skill set that needs to be learned. And both take time
the same thing happens in osu!ctb, ezfl farming is so busted
it's great that you're documenting this
New pp record and it’s HT.
I’m so proud ♥️
This is the scariest fucking thing I have seen since aetrna's Ascension to Heaven
salute to this guy on actually thinking his play is "only" worth 700pp.
boi doesn't realize how ridiculous those plays are. I'd say 850 is the fair minimum for that because maybe score.
2:36 a lot of the 1k pp plays have one thing in common. set by mrekk
I just started to learn flashlight, and I fully agree with kalanluu about flashlight pp, so, I think that play like this should give around 700 o 760 pp
Good job on asking kalanluu for his fl pp thoughts, but why not ask any of the pp devs? There's even a 3 digit flashlight player as one of them (MBmasher). It would be good to showcase some of their views/takes/reasoning on fl pp alongside kalanluu's, or even the other stuff you talked about: length bonus being overweight, why there are barely any non-dt 1k's (it's not a problem with the pp system), etc
If you need an invite to the pp dev server, here you go (youtube is not liking links so here's the code instead): aqPCnXu
omg rekunan !!
omg natelytle !!
I wonder how funny it is still to outsiders when "pp" is used in any sentence about any osu game mode (or beat saber since that also uses pp as a thing)
Damn everyone got telegram bots now
Sick thumbnail, definitely pulled me In with that. Btw Love BM1,2,3
I will say in regards to the low AR FL nerf, it makes it "easier" to read without HD but with HD I'd imagine low AR flashlight is nearly impossible. I really hope the rework takes that into account but based on osu's track record I don't think they thought of that
i did think of that thank you very much
@@MBmasher Great! I didn't mean to come off as rude its just a genuine concern but I do understand nothing is gonna be perfect.
kalanluu being a bit humble imo
It may overweighted for now but 750 is way too low imo.
Memorizing something is not that easy.. and when it goes a map with more than 3 mins..
just noticed the creepy music and now i can't take this video seriously
bro the bgm music is giving me nightmares, it’s FL mod as well 💀💀
I'm early but just wanna say your documentaries are very inspiring and makes me wanna make more too. Thanks for all you do :)
@RhythmicRil hi :)
hi kibitz
@@revokeww1465 why you all stalking me
@@Kibitz ☺😊
@RhythmicRil 0000000000000000000000000⁰0000⁰⁰⁰⁰
2022: 30min map breaks game
2070: 24hr map pp record 3200pp
there is so many DT scores not only because pp discrimination, its also that there isnt as much NM 9*+ maps that aren't tech or something, meanwhile DT can make any ~6* map (which there is a LOT) 9*+ thus a 1k potential map
In an ideal pp system you CAN gain pp from 9 star tech maps. You would be able to gain pp from any type of map as long as you're good at the skillset.
i hate ads that long but thank you for at least including a countdown for when the ad ends if nothign else
he uses two difficulty reduction mods and set pp record (and missed twice)
this is exactly why he thinks FL is overweighted lol
5:03 'thankfuly he missed, other wise it would of been 1.3k, which would of give us all a goddam heart attack'
2-3 months later: mrekk and aetrna get a 1.3k pp play
what site is that at 2:40 ?
What kalanluu says about the FL length bonus makes a lot of sense to me. Consider two maps, one is 15 minutes long, one 30. Getting an FC on the second one will take _a lot_ more time. Specifically, twice as long to memorize and the number of retries is squared. However, pp isn't supposed to measure time investment, it's supposed to measure _peak performance_ . That's the reason plays are weighted such that only the best count.
Flash light as a mod rewards spending a long time on a single play though, that's the whole point of it. If you can grind memorization for weeks or months on a 30 minute map you've earned a lot more than the 15 minute play. It's a skillset PP should reward as much as DT jumps and fast streams. Mix fast jumps/streams + DT and long flashlight maps and you have a godlike player osu! hasn't seen yet.
as an etterna player I still don't understand why there aren't skillsets......
I had a chat with him, he said that it took him 2 months to practice because maybe part 3
now it is less than 900pp
we are all winners
FL is my favorite mod since i can't do speed in osu! and i like memory than speed
kalanluu Because maybe FC should be 860-950pp
imo The problem with PP comes from it's nature, it's trying to make two completely different plays comparable
It'd make more sense to have different ranking systems for different playstyles, and perhaps an overall ranking system that measures your horizontal skill rather than your single highest peak
Even just weighing different metrics separately would go a long way, allowing players to set multiple 100% weight plays through a wider skillset
But this would change the game fundamentally, but to not change it is to accept PP will never work as a measurement of a players skill.
PP is a great system that gives players goals and socializes the game, but it was never supposed to accurately reveal which mod or ability takes the most effort to master
This is highly accurate I think. There's probably not any possible way to make a system to represent skill and difference in skills accurately. Maybe for specific skill sets like DT jumps as it seems to be right now but not for two completely different ones (like low AR, technical, etc.)
Finally people from finland does something big in osu and kalanluu is fishbone in english
in my honest opinion, i think PP should be based off raw difficulty and values. How difficult a map is should give more PP than an easier map pertaining to a niche skillset. Also I think that when it comes to length bonus, it should get removed and replaced with combo bonus. Combo bonus is much more concrete and the values wouldnt change according to whichever mod you play unlike length bonus which scales based off you playing it nomod, halftime, or doubletime.
@@vamburker5950 bruh every osu argument about which player is better end up like 10 times longer than this 💀
@@vamburker5950 🤓
i wont even last 5 sec playing this
The video is 2 times+ shorter than the play that’s how insane it is
wonderful video, loved it :)
great and informative video as always n3rd ^^ keep at it !
lets go, you have sponspor
my g got a sponsor
A month later, and the rework is being done, reducing Kalanluu's record 1253 pp (previous pp record) to 867 pp (idk what pp rank is this but yeah it's about like rank 200+ or something?)
Yoooo congrats man
gg for an honest vpn advertisement
I disagree with the nerf I know how from his perspective he thinks the pp system should reward people with more skill instead of memorizing and practice, but I think memorizing and practice shouldn't be devalued either since it actually takes time and effort to accomplish whereas skill can often come from talent like mrekk who had set plays players can only dream of with his amazing talent, things that people can't achieve on their lifetime is literally accomplished by him everyday, I just feel like hard work shouldn't be devalued at all, as it actually takes an eefort it where talent is just luck based sometimes, just be proud of the play and accept the reward as it is well deserved
Rework: Nuh Uh
Ok like i get it right... But! I still believe that the crazy amount of time and patience and memorisation it takes to play with FL should be rewarded, especially if you add in EZ and HT to make things even more challenging for an average player. Not everyone can do that. The people who invest that much of their energy into memorising a 10+ minutes map definitely deserve a lot of PP. Honestly, i wouldn't mind them getting 1300pp for it lol
holy macaroni
fl shouldnt scale with the time length of the map but rather the combo imo
slider that repeats itself for 100 combo go brrrr
Congrats on getting a sponsorship! :D
And nows kt09’s turn
still waiting for nomod 1k pp
If u dont play this combination of mods looks unveliable set a score like this. I agree that the pp system should reward more the skill you need "during each play" instead of memorization, but still for me looks insane that someone CAN remember so much.
HDFL on low AR is harder than HDFL on higher AR. FL only on low AR is easier than FL only on higher AR. Basically my point is that HDFL needs to be buffed because most players can’t see the difference between FL only and HDFL and HDFL makes FL significantly harder
Kalanluu means fish bone in Finnish
I can see a good future for your channel bro, keep it up!
most sane finnish person
Babe wake up new neediness video
This been haunting me since forever, i really dead curious about..
does -GN actually a guy who make that mario a nintendo game!???
Finnish People on the TOP! PERKELE!
1300pp is the new 900pp, no one can get one until one day mrekk or something decides to go 3 mod mode
And his name Kalanluu Translates to english to ''FishBone''
Kalanluu has pretty much the only 1k that can't just be sniped by mrekk on a tuesday and he thinks that's the overweighted ones and not the other 100. What a madlad.I'm sure aetrna thinks any speed score below 300 bpm is worthless and should give 200 pp or something because it's too slow, too
Lets go new nerdiness video
the game's scoring systems have always been broken
yo what is the website called for the new pp reword system ? btw good Video
atleast 69420pp under 9.3ar impossible + flash light
lower AR makes FL easier :D
I think it deserves well over 1k but for the sake of maintaining osu!’s identity as a reactive rhythm game rather than a memorization game plays like this should probably be discouraged in the ranking system.
pp didnt mean anything to him even when we give him 10 milion pp, so if we realy want to praise him maybe a medal in the profile is better
i think the play should be 1k flat
Mabye flashlight pp bonus could be based on total distance of objects? Probably would help with bursts.
ye i was thinking of something like "dark time" - how much time is spent with the follow up circle being invisible when it is played by auto. that way, bursts will not get boosted by flashlight length bonus because you do not need "memorization" for bursts as you see them.
840~ for because maybe (890 for fc) and low 900 for unforgiving imo
everything kalanluu said is true, but i would argue that ez makes fl way too easy for such broken pp values
because maybe is a higher star rating with htez than unforgiving. and at least to me, just looking at the aim and tapping during both plays (even ingoring FL) because maybe is more challenging.
I know a guy who beat this guy in a dota 1v1 once
I can’t believe it’s not even an FC though
T R A N S L A T I N G K A L A N L U U . . . .
K A L A N L U U T R A N S L A T I N G
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im fine with seeing 1200 pp FL play but others may say otherwise
Your videos are so cool I swear
Ping-pong the animation? based
C-TYPE DTHRFL
@@geiboi77 ?
I personally don't think they are giving THAT much for how hard they are I agree with most of the points in the video but the fact that currently he is one of the only players able to get scores like this even while its giving as much pp as it is means that it is obviously incredibly hard and i think it should be rewarded
That logic works fine for most other plays, but the problem is that Kalanluu is one of the only players in the game attempting scores like this. You don't just decide to try for this play and put in an attempt. If nobody else decides they want this play, they can't even pass it.
@@pbble9742 true i think it would be a good idea to leave it how it is rn and see if it really gets abused later when more people start to try plays like that for pp and if not then its simply kalanluu being good at that skill and i mean it shouldn't be a huge priority to fix anyways if there is only one person who it mainly affects
We should buff flashlight and length bones in my opinion…Yes it is very overweighted but buffing this will force many players to learn this niche skill. Unbuffing this in the future will balance the system but more players have learnt how to play flashlight which I think the community needs.
suomi mainottu!
As someone who is still relatively new to the osu scene (3-4 months) I think that he undervalues how much work is needed to memorize the map along with holding such an ungodly accuracy. It might be a little bit overweighted but I don't think it should be below 1000pp it should definitely be above that like 1145 or 1200 even depending on the accuracy. Also true rip xootys insane euphoria run being nerfed ;(.....
Babe wake up new n3rdiness video just dropped.
So basically FGSky but on steroids...YEP got it.