@@DemonicRemption Because he didn't bother to get that far and yet gives his opinion on something he doesn't know. I for one never got the appeal of One Piece and didn't get into it. Doesn't mean it's bad it's just not my cup of tea and I wouldn't give my opinion on it.
Honestly, I don't mind people who dislike Bleach for legitimate reasons, it's their right to do so. What I do dislike are the people who hate on Bleach for no reason other than "it's cool to do so". That and morons who say "Bleach should've ended after Aizen", because they clearly ignore the countless unresolved plot threads. I remember someone telling me Bleach was dead and not EVER coming back just a few weeks ago, mere days before the trailer dropped. Despite the fact that I told them about the exhibition and trailer they refused to believe me and kept parroting "Bleach is DEAD!!!!"
Yeah, people can dislike whatever they one and Bleach is not entitled to everyone's love, but some people seem to actually dislike that people like it.
@@chillykomasan7971 What sucks is that the mob mentality has actually affected the Blue Blur since Team Sonic seems desperate for those people's approval.
Stopping at Aizen would have robbed Bleach of one of the best action Yamamoto ever made by ordering the Captains to give part of their powers to the sword so that Ichigo could get his power back and Hat and clog finally being recognized as being innocent of Aizen crime.
This how I describe each arc of bleach in one word: Substitute shinigami: grieve Soul society: resolve Arrancar: instinct Fullbring: inner turmoil TYBW: Truth
Fullbring: Strife, maybe? Strife referring to not only the inner turmoil but also his disagreement with the gang over Tsukishima and how much he struggled during the arc to regain power.
@@Celty.Sturluson I would say either Lies or uncovered (why uncovered or lies? Because we were told throughout the story that the butterflies that guide the shinigamis are normal butterflies that guide them only to know later on that we were *Lied* to For uncovered I say because we have so many mysterys to *uncover*
"Painfully Average" The protagonist isn't a food addicted stereotype who only cares about girls. The character designs are unique and memorable. It has one of the best villains in all of anime who is often overlooked by the majority of people. The music slaps. People who hate Bleach are Painfully average.
@@Blue__Oni "Food addicted", "only cares about girls" and you say he is talking about deku? You have got to be memeing. I cant even recall a shonen protagonist who's defining traits are food addicted and only cares about girls.
I always disliked how they used certain arguments to criticize bleach and just ignore it with other shows they love...or praise some shows for things bleach did just as well if not better but not even mention it when talking about bleach...back in the day watching the big three weekly having to deal with those fans was annoying af
I don’t think it’s considered gate keeping like everyone says. It’s just sad to see that people who were previously talking so much crap about the series act like it’s such a great series and they always liked it. I’ve been watching the series for years, but dropped it after some time. I got back into it during about 2019, and I was in love with it. Then I heard that the anime was finally coming back, so I was waiting until the trailer to finish the series. Needless to say, it was an amazing ending. Mind you, Im an anime only, with some knowledge of the manga. I understand how the real fans feel, after getting so much shit, and now that it’s coming back, they’re being friendly with them.
Same bro I fell off of anime for a couple of years and I recently came back to it and my love for bleach grew exponentially higher now that I'm an adult
I think this isnt much as "gatekeeping" but more of challenging missinformation. I remember i saw Eyepatch wolf video, then the counter video and the apology of Eye patch later. Tho, eye patch touch in some uknown fact, like shonen mural having like 3 dekus, 2 luffies, 3 narutos, but NO character of bleach.
I don’t know why people hate on Bleach it’s really well written and the characters are really likeable. It’s funny to see all the Bleach haters jump back onto bleach.
Its BS they act like no other manga or anime has flaws in it which isnt true. Every anime I've seen has something I don't like, if it's too much dislike I dont finish but if its just a few but everything amazing I can care less about a few flaws
@@treygreypaws3689 exactly just because he’s not like Naruto and Luffy who want to be hokage and pirate king, he actually has a goal and it’s really simple
My issue with Bleach wasn't the story or characters but how the anime was paced. Granted the manga was slow as well but that's what I think led to the slowness of the anime. All long running Shonen have this issue at some point, Naruto, Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, and I'm glad it stopped with them now being seasonal, giving us 26 episodes a year instead of every week. And I think they're stronger for that.
The reason I love bleach and Ichigo more than OP and Naruto is because he doesn't dream of being someone great, instead, he just wants to become strong for the sake of protecting others. Simple, yet so realistic and relatable just like how Spiderman was written to be relatable by normal people, having everyday problems.
That’s a fair enough opinion but I like OP more for exactly the opposite, Luffy who has all those qualities of becoming strong for the sake of others but he also dreams big and inspires me to want to be more than “normal people”
It's so crazy that as BLEACH fans we had to deal with these people spreading misinformation, harassing fans for no reason other than they thinks it's funny and blatant lies and hate. Now that the series is coming back and there's a huge wave of hype around it they're coming in hordes to grift off it. People like you, Clyde, Jaymes and the fandom that held onto their love of the series were there throughout the drought. We as a community were there, getting shat on by these people and now they want to come in and act like they had the same love for it that we do. I can't with these people.
Man you hammered the nail in the coffin with this one. I'm only up to the part where you compare Ichigo to Peter Parker and it's soo true, "With great power... comes great responsibility". Like you said as well when Rukia told Ichigo in chapter 2 that he has to make a choice to save every soul, that was pretty much her giving him the uncle Ben speech! Ichigo is not some perfect hero that never fails or makes the wrong choices and that is why his character is soo believable. He is unlike another other shonen protagonist and that it why I respect him and Mr Kubo for making him the way he is.
I love how he disregards the Arrancars as “shallowly written characters”, yet stopped watching Bleach entirely BEFORE the Hueco Munco arc. *How very ignorant*
That's what makes me so mad about this I don't mind if people don't like things and don't finish them. I don't mind those people stating those opinions. So long they are aware that they are stating OPINIONS and about things that they KNOW about
@@tamashiranai1091 facts. I stopped My Hero in season 2 cause it wasnt for me. I would never go out of my way to trash on it because i havent even caught up on the series so i have no right to comment on it.
I'm glad someone said this. I hate how people start loving Bleach when it's relevant for views but they were hating on it for views. It's fake Edited: Apparently Bleach has a toxic community. Up until recently we "didn't have a fans". It's what it is. People can't have an open mind
But your ok with a guy trying to cap and start UA-cam drama for views I've always enjoyed dbs content but this is nothing more then clout chasing fornever puts out some of the absolute best anime news and content out there worry less about other ppl and focus more on your own views and life pretty disappointed that he even put this out
@@michaelanthony2520 Hold on. I'm a Fornever and Trash taste sub. I watch every one of Forn's videos but I can detach myself from it if he says something off. We can't label smaller UA-camrs as clout chasers if they speak out on hypocrisy. For delivers great news but he can give messy opinions too. Also remember that DBZ is a Bleach content creator, this is his main focus, 100 videos of Bleach. When an anime content creator speaks on the superficial reasons for why Bleach "isn't good", you'd have to expect someone to point out their issue
@@KG45Brham there not issues though there opinions I don't like the filler in Naruto that don't mean Im a fake fan of the series these shows are created to bring people together and watch and enjoy there's ups and downs in every anime so I'm not going to sit here and act like for never saying that the series is in a bad place as him completely hating the series all together I definitely get your point but realistically he's firing shots just to get views how is that any different from what he's trying to say is being a hypocrite my point is why not reach out to one of these guys and have an actual adult conversation with them instead of trying to slander their name over an opinion try and change their mind if they're already questionable with bleach as a whole and then you start showing them that the bleach community is toxic as hell that's just going to push them further away
For me personally, Watching Bleach helped me to change my life in a better direction. Before watching it I was addicted to Porb and was a fat slob, but seeing Ichigo in action as well as watching him struggle and fight for his friends and family helped me to realise that I needed to change myself to be more like him, so over the last year I got my priorities in order, went from obese at 205 lbs down to 145lbs and decided to spend some time with those I care about more. It hurts me seeing these baseless and mob-esque claims about Ichigo being boring and plain while to me, he is my Number One (no pun intended) anime protagonist.
Ay yo grats on the weight loss, I been using Itadori Yuji as motivation for my journey, started at 245 now im at 190 after six months, once I lose another 20 I'll finally have fulfilled my goal.
I would like to add that Ichigo's desire isn't just there because of him not wanting others to lose someone like him but the guilt that's always present in him plays a big role as well. When Ichigo is destroyed by Byakuya and Rukia is taken to the soul society, we have Ichigo monologing " I was saved again" this guilt often results in him not putting enough trust in the strength of his friends and putting all the responsibility solely on himself as we see in the HM arc. The Vasto Lorde transformation is this hero complex formed by the guilt he feels coming to bite him in the form of the very monster that he was fighting against. There are many facets to Ichigo's character.
Great analysis. Adding on more, Ichigo's Vaste Lorde transformation is indeed "White" or hollow-Ichigo, his birthright hollow-powers received from his mother and actually his Zanpakuto spirit named Zangestu, responding to not only Ichigos desire to protect but also hollow-Ichigo own will to live, as hollow-Ichigo does not want Ichigo to die because he also will. Quincy's (unless your Yhwach) do not have power over death, shinigami's and hollow's do. When Ichigo was "killed" by Ulquiorra, Ichigo despaired over failing his friends (despair is one of many way a soul becomes a hollow) the combination of plus having a hole in his body and absording Hueco Mundo energies allowed hollow-Ichigo to overtake Ichigo's quincy side turning Ichigo into a 100% hollow albeit with shinigami powers. Only when a hollow 's mask is chipped or broken can the original soul gains its consciousness back (like when Ichigo chipped Orihime's brothers hollow mask, he regained a bit of humanity) which Ulquiorra does by cutting of a single horn on Ichigo's hollow mask. Ichigo's power-ups are not simple things with him being 1/3 Quincy, 1/3 Shinigami, 1/3 Hollow just makes his character depth that much deeper more interesting than all the other characters in Bleach, imo.
@@DarkRogue107 Great add-on. It's also something to note that white lived with Ichigo's mother and more than likely saw her last moments protecting Ichigo. He takes on the role of a teacher during the whole show and gives Ichigo tough love. I think that while white himself might not want to die, it can also be said that he cares for Ichigo as well.
In general , Ichigos guilt and Depression are a big part oh him. Both resulting from childhood trauma - something a lot of people fail to notice or point out
Bleach haters just "go with the flow", it's like a hive mind. They don't have the capacity of elaborating their own opinions, instead they "borrow" other people's opinions and use it as their own. It's basically what happened and IS happening right now.
Bleach haters = confirmist( also I can guarantee that a huge majority of anime haters that have such a negative attitudes on great series like this have never read a manga and will never be able to due to their very short interest span and extreme lack of intelliect.that’s why everyone does whatever everyone is doing because sadly the majority of the human race can’t determine what is fun, boring,sad,bad.. etc. most go off of what the population deems is fitting because they don’t know any better or don’t know much at all besides to go with the norm in order to ensure their survival and emotional security
@@panthekirb7561 yup, but also careful with ones that try to make a few bad things good though. Even some fans know there could be come bad things but dont wanna pretend it's perfect
I'm not the biggest bleach fan, I think it's an okay series. That being said, people criticizing Ichigo for not having a Goal has always pissed me off. Goku doesn't have a Goal, he just wants to keep surpassing his limits. Yusuke never had a goal, he just liked being a spirit detective because it was the one thing he was good at. Kenshin didn't have a goal. He just wanted to protect the weak. Gintoki doesn't have a goal (as far as I know. Just started Gintama) he just tries to pay the rent on time. 4 of the most iconic protagonist in shounen don't have goals, but it's a problem when Ichigo doesn't have one?
Bro thank you for your insightfulness because they just refuse to break their ignorance😭😭but it's literally because of content creators like these guys on why fans are so ignorant and bashful towards Bleach, that's what this video is basically for, not to gate keep people from watching it like everyone's saying😂😂😂
Faxxx and also funny all these 5 characters are one of my most favs. I love characters like these, don't need no i need to become something or someone to get attention troupe.
Not having an end goal leaves no scope for overarching storytelling. Their is only a certain time of time such characters can stay interesting. Gintoki is living the life of a retired man.
@@Nathouuuutheone dont we all wish we had strength to protect our family and loved one? I believe everyone does. Deku and most marvel heroes have literally the same goal as Ichigo but yet Ichigo has no goal cause hes not screaming its goal in every episode lool. If Kubo chose a cliche goal like " i want to be a captain of the 12 guard squad" i guess they would have been happy lol
@@dianeemaleu2697 I fully believe it's a bad trope when character scream out their shallow motivation every chapter/episode. I responded to something specific. It doesn't mean I think Ichigo lacks motivation. I kind of do in a way, but not really. In any case, my earlier comment had nothing to do with questions of wether or not Ichigo has a goal. Your reply is just hammering at nothing. You're too eager to defend with arguments that you don't take the time to NOT put words in people's mouths.
The whole "Protagonists need a goal to be more interesting" is nonsense to me when my favourite Shonen Protagonists are either those with a more down to earth goal or those who's goals boil down to "Survive and beat the wrong do-ers" like the Joestar family, Ichigo and even Yūsuke Urameshi
Exactly, not only that a lot of anime fans especially here in the west believes shonen is this one thing or in a category. Yet there are abundance of shonen with different interesting stories thats not from weekly shonen jump. Like blood blockade battlefront, dai dark, fire punch man, chainsaw man,GTO, Gintama, to your eternity, ancient magus bride, Sprigan, trigun etc.
@@xblade149 Honestly having grown up with the anime boom period in America of 1996-2008, I think I get why so many Western anime fans have such a limited view of shonen. See in that aforementioned period we were exposed to a lot of anime. Many titles lived and died by how they were received in the west, and the ones that were widely accepted where the ones like DBZ, Pokemon, and Sailor-Moon. As a result many fans believe every shonen lead needs a grand ambition, despite that there are many that don't like Kenshin, Yusuke Urameshi, Onizuka, The Elric brothers, Mibu Kyoshiro/Demon Eyes Kyo(assuming you've never heard of Samurai Deeper Kyo), or Tsuna Sawada(Katekyo Hitman Reborn) to name a few. I mean I was under this impression too until coming across these shonen among others.
I’ll admit I was disappointed in Bleach with how it ended as I felt very cheated, but when I learned more on why it ended like it did I changed my stance on it as it wasn’t Kubo fault for being rushed, and after taking a break and getting back into it these past year I grew to appreciate Bleach a lot more and I really look forward to seeing what more it has in store
Its funny how the people who used to be the biggest haters of Bleach are its biggest "fans" now. Respect to everyone who never had secound thoughts about loving this series!!
The comparison to western comic books was GREAT!! As a Spider-Man and Bleach fan, you’ve given me a new perspective that should’ve been so obvious to me, thanks!
Having no goal is literally the worst critique anyone has ever spouted. Aside from the fact that its not true, countless characters in the most critically acclaimed literature of all time don't have a simplistic, lofty personal goal and that didn't stop some of the most lauded writing critics of all time making long and detailed essays analyzing every word and punctuation mark of them. One could say that that only goes for classical literature like novels and stuff and not things like manga but good writing is universal and the hallmarks of it do not differ from medium to medium. People claiming that such a binary facet as wanting to achieve some grand ambition is a big factor in whether or not a character is good have only outed themselves as having a single digit IQ. They think that only a very specific template of character is good It's not something that should be said in a debate but none of these people even have the most basic grasp of storywriting. You give them too much credit when you say they demonstrate an understanding of this at points in the video, most likely because at those points they are praising bleach. but even when they praise it they showcase nothing intelligent. One issue people defending bleach have is that they become a bit 2deep4u to the point where it turns others off. If I may give an honest criticism I think even you fall into this trap now and again. None of the things that make bleach good to people are anything esoteric or require a insane level of dedication or intelligence to understand. when defending bleach you really have to be down to earth and modest and often not much needs to be said in response to bad points. Posting the right panel or page does the trick just fine. One thing I find ironic is that people that claim that bleach repeated the same arc over and over. Ignoring the fact that it only happened twice, 2 of the most highly regarded series of all time do similar things. The number of times luffy has gone to an island, gotten chummy with the princess and overthrown the government is immense to say nothing of the formulaic structure of the plot in general. The HxH main cast are 1 to 1 equivalents to their Yu Yu Hakusho counterparts. Yusuke-Gon, Killua-Hiei, Kurapika, Kurama, Leorio-kuwabara and bisky-genkai. Im sure if I cared enough to look I could find more but i can't be bothered to. Incensed fans of the 2 aforementioned series might get on my ass for saying that but I never once said it was a bad thing. Clearly it has worked for them and they are almost universally loved. But its fact that they did the same thing as bleach has. The biggest crime these dumbass youtube anime review channels commit is that essentially they're there to push their own agenda. Nothing said is objective or unbiased which leads to factually incorrect criticisms which could easily apply to other series. Now obviously everyone gets a bit opinionated. It's not as if the people defending bleach have ascended human emotions and only spit facts but its often not as bad as guys like newworldreview and his compatriots because they're arguing from a defensive position. I could go on indefinitely but this would be the longest youtube comment ever when its already excessively long so I will leave it there.
Precisely. They take such an incredibly simplistic and basic view towards writing a character, it shows they have 0 understanding of it. Say a bunch of "terms" without even defining why it is bad. In general how these "criticisms" tend to go. Say crap, have no reasoning behind it. Had similar experience on some crappy writing discord. Arrogant writer wanna bes getting upset if something doesn't follow the most basic formula that exist. But they think they are an authority because they use that formula. Though that is still a step up from these Bleach hate bandwagoners. They say so many things with confidence and authority, yet still miss the most basic and clear aspects of the story. Bleach has its issues and in various aspects it definitely isn't amazing, writing wise, though it also has some pretty strong points there. And there definitely are aspects that the vast majority of people won't pick up on very well. In general Bleach tends to be relatively subtle about a lot of things.
I personally love both Burn The Witch and Bleach, I’m a big fan of Kubo’s art style and his storytelling, there’s just something about his works, that not many mangakas share, even though it’s not perfect ( which makes it better honestly ). I love Bleach and Burn The Witch for what they are, the art, not perfect, yet so amazing. But talking about critics, I’m ok with smart and thoughtful critics, because you can’t be delusional that everything is perfect, however some people are just far too invested in trying to dig up even the smallest faults, which to me is just a dumb waste of your time. Thoughts after watching video: What the hell did I watch, but honestly it was funny to hear someone saying “Bleach is bad” for the sake of saying Bleach is bad 🥴
You just made my day 100 times better. It is so irritating to see this people talk about any series not just bleach without having any knowledge whatsoever . Like people judge bleach with a anime that isn't finished .
I finally got around to watching/reading Bleach last year so missed the decades of drama completely. I'm just glad it exists and is returning to air this year. I didn't care much for the last arc but I think I'll like it more watching it. The story is iconic.
Fornever is the definition of a person who just jumps on the bandwagon. He praised the fuck out of AOT in its final arc saying it would go down as “one of the greats” even made a video leading up to its ending where he argued in favor of the alliance and gave his predictions on how the story would end (which he got fairly close) but towards the last 2-3 chapters when everyone started shitting on the ending all the sudden he cashes in on that and makes tons of reaction videos where you can just tell he’s overselling himself to feel included, even though his predictions for the ending were pretty close. It’s like he’s afraid to form his own opinion in the event it goes against what most people think. I respect him for all the news content he does but he’s lost credibility when it comes to reviews.
I"m fairly new to his channel for about a year now. But after this video I am disgusted by him. Why tf would you go out on your own way just to shit on a series you either watched or read to end.
@@Cheetowitcheese because he read the room and wanted to make sure he stayed on the good side of most of his subs. At least Tekking101, who reviewed bleach pretty extensively, has been pretty consistent with his takes on the story. He definitely criticized the ending but would never go as far as to slander the series as a whole or even shit on fans still hopeful for a return. Plus in the long gap where there was no official bleach content he would occasionally go back and do some bleach videos. Fornever? Nothing. But the moment the anime is announced he acts like he didn’t used to slander tf out of bleach and feed into that toxic side of the community
Well attack on Titan is actually shit so he’s right about hating it also it’s wasn’t just the last 2-3 chapters that was bad either ever since the “your not a god but your not a slave either “ line the manga took a nose dive . The ending wasn’t even the worst part it was the Armin power of friendship power up he got from all the previous Titan users and Ymir suddenly having this all planned and waiting for mikasa of all ppl LOOOL
@@vicsage8784 Fornever is fake as hell he's been exposed plenty of times for that i remember when DBS was popping he was hyping up everything even the trashiest episodes and when it ended he started complaining about the very thing he was hyping up. another example is when he trashed an episode of Boruto and when the fanbase turned on him for having an opinion he deleted that vid and apologized
As someone who likes Bleach, and first got into anime after watching it, I feel like I understand it. However, when I'm put on the spot on why it's good, I feel like a student who's forgotten everything they've learned during a quiz. Also, Ichigo being the the anime version of Spider-man is honestly the best way to put it, and is probably the reason I got into Spider-man in the first place.
From what I can tell about New World Review is that he only notices points or characteristics that are spoon fed to him. By that I mean he only seems to recognize characters that are very vocal about their goals like Kenpachi or Ishida. Most characters in Bleach choose to act out their ambitions or goals and simply decide to keep their motives to themselves. This is something people do in real life. So Kubo gives us moments in their past and during their story where we can see where their motivation stems from and when they are put to task. At these points they act based on the culmination of all their experiences. We get to explore their internal conflict and how that influences their decisions. These are put at various points throughout the plot. So he simply doesn't know how to piece together these moments in time or can't figure out the motive behind the characters' actions, he can't put it all together because he's used to having everything spoon fed to him like with Naruto and One Piece (not that either of these series don't employ similar story telling techniques). Also "spoon fed" is the simplest expression I can use to communicate, not that I want to be rude.
One of the dumbest things I hear people complain about is filler. Now this was a valid complaint in 2010 but if you haven’t learned to skip the filler you hate in 2021🤦🏾♂️
Exactly. There are literal lists online that write out how to skip all the filler. It was there when I first watched Bleach and 2014, so it’s def there in 2022.
@@dawnstartheanimeman Liked most of the filler arcs. Single episode fillers like Karakura Superheroes were obnoxious, but still better than sitting through a recap episode.
@@dawnstartheanimeman I enjoyed the filler arcs. Showing ichigo getting used to his bankai or the slow loss of his powers were great additions to the story imho. It didn't feel like my time was being wasted.
If someone stops Bleach after the Aizen fight, fair enough. You might think it´s a logical narrative end for the story (even though many things were still unknown), or you just might not like it enough to continue into two more arcs. To me that´s fine. What you shouldn´t do though is draw conclusion about the series as a whole when you lack critical information that will affect what conclusions you can even draw in the first place. Case in point: 21:50- Rukia getting "pushed to the side" is a conclusion you can only come to if you have not read TYBW
Yeah. Rukia was kind of a big deal in the end. Gaining Bankai to swap with a guy her esteemed brother couldn't handle, becoming a Captain in the end.... you know stuff that happens when you ain't shit lol.
Let’s say I skipped everything between aizen right and tybw ( I read it ) how much am I really missing out on? I did research to figure out wtf the book was that they used to defeat ywhach and figure out fullbringers abilities etc.. I tried watching I just can’t.
A lot of people seem to have stop because of the "filler arks", cannon or not. Shame really, i like them. First thing about bleach i ever saw was the Blunt Ark over and over on tv. Love the sanpakto ark! Has so much exposition in how they work and the personalities! Even more once its all follow up as a big part of the Thousand years war!
Aizen faking his own death was such a crazy plot twist I don't understand how these people lose interest in knowing what's gonna happen after that, I'm pretty sure they didn't even pay attention to the plot
My thoughts on this I dont mind if someone made like a bad bleach video and then just stopped. As in didnt jump on the bandwagon when it came back like new world review. In fine with that. The only issue is people who shit on it then come back on and act like they hype for it. That's the part I dont like and deserve to get called out. Anime news network is one of the main problems. All is fair to me
Before the anime's final arc was announced to be animated it pissed me off how many people blindly hated on bleach because it didn't follow the likes of well known anime of its time. I'm happy UA-camrs like you call out this bs and expose how ignorant these people are of this series
I like how the most fascinating parts about Ichigo are his powers which are damn near broken. He was born overpowered but he still had suffer his way to unlocking all of it, every emotional, physical and mental step. He went from using his Zanpakuto as a tool to realizing that the blade is him and fighting alone, ackowledging both parts that killed his mother (the Hollow that corrupted her and the manifestation of Juha Bach) because he knows the truth of what really happened.
I’m stoked that all the Bleach haters will get to see just how much more story there was to tell with TYBW. If you’re anime only Bleach analyzing then you’re going to be in for a healthy dose of stfu, when that arc rolls out and you see how brutal it is and how there was so much more left to learn about this world and it’s characters and see all those great fights. I think we were all kinda bummed after Aizen was gone and Ichigo lost his powers but when he got them back and Yhwach busted on the scene, I was back in again. The Quincy were better antagonists in my opinion, only thing they didn’t have was Aizen, but Yhwach was a much more effective villain, he didn’t play around like Aizen. All the haters are a joke really.
When Fornever Wrld started to hate on Bleach , I lost all interest in his content. I barely liked him as it was, but once he started going at the fandom for being stupid to hope that the anime would return, I lost all respect for him as a content creator. It’s funny because when the Bleach anime return was officially announced he had the balls to make an announcement video with the news for views obviously. Anime community is toxic as it is. It’s best to stay out of it. All that matters to me is that TYBW is going to be animated finally. A true fan knows that no matter what we get a W.
It is what it is. YT is just like the music industry.. full of corruption and favoritism. People like to insert their bias instead of chasing the truth. Then when the truth is right in front of us.. it ain’t even obvious because you never know who’s real and who is fake.
I mean for me it was the whole Double4Anime situation and how he resolved that. Or more precisely how badly he had resolved that. For a dude six year older? That was a major yikes.
it pisses me off that people shit on Bleach without knowing wtf they're talking about and still want to make fun of the fans for being mad these are the kind of people who watch anime while doing something else, it's the only explanation to why they have such braindead takes saying "Ichigo is a reactionary character" is just crazy to me
I totally agree with you, Bleach was the very first anime I really watched back in school 2007, and I have always loved the series all this time, now it's coming back I can finally tell peeps I was right and Bleach is worth all the praise I gave it. I hate people who do this, say it's trash then go full circle when it comes out. To add insult to injury to not even FINISH the story? I mean c'mon the answer is already there.
@@rainofkhandaq6678 One Piece is actually something I just started watching because as a Bleach fan who's heard all types of bashing on the show I feel like One Piece kind of gets that too. So I wanted to finally give it a chance since its the only show out of the big 3 I haven't seen
You do not get it. 90% of the bleach fandom moved on cause there was never any hope of a final season. The ones you call haters are the same ones who talked about bleach daily and got tired near the end
BLEACH never gave them a reason to hate it, they are just creating their own little drama of pure nitpicking. That being said; I don't love Bleach JUST because it's part of the big three, I love Bleach because of the focus of other good characters and how it takes its time for the story to flow, in the end.. It's not for everyone but for those who stay will enjoy it. Period. And ayeeee 1:09:52 that's the video I sent! Keep it up brother! ❤️
They probably felt sad or angry because it ended without understanding their emotions and why they felt them. So the project their negativity towards the thing they felt made them feel those negative emotions. Because it had to be Bleach and Kubo that was the reason, not themselves. People react irrationally when they are confused about something and we often seek out groups that agree with what we feel at the same time. But that is often really bad because when a group of confused, angry people start an echo chamber it can very quickly turn into trends of negative beliefs. People can´t accept the fact that Kubo got burnt out and needed to stop working to focus on his own health, so that is why both the anime and manga stopped so abruptly. They rather believe that it had to be because Bleach was so awful that it just had to be put to death, rather than understanding why it ended.
I've always felt that Bleach went over peoples' heads. Your video here showing how these people are outing themselves reminds me of the adage: It is better to remain silent and be perceived a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. These people should have kept their big mouths shut. Great video. I'm glad I came across it.
bleach has been and always will be a timeless story that is without a doubt incredible and holds much meaning for so many people. thank you thank you THANK YOU for this video so many things needed to be said esp now with the animes return. sick n tired of people saying bleach is bad just bc they have reading comprehension skills of a first grader
I think the fact that he became an English translator jn the end emphasises how he doesn’t need to be some hokage type character. He had no grandiose ambitions in the SS, he got dragged into this world. Kubo drilled this idea throughout Bleach. The dynamic of SS and Ichigos home reminds me of Peter Pan
As far back as the first volume, Ichigo's character profile says that the person he admires the most is William Shakespeare and not long after he was established to be a serious student. His becoming a translator is well within his established character.
The thing I hate most is one of the biggest complaints in the Anime community is that we can't stand "tropes". What is hated more than Isekai? Or people that hate ecchi tropes. But, you get a series that is finally different, that has a protag that doesn't follow the same mold and then you bitch that they don't follow the trope. Ugh, I hate people so much sometimes.
I love all of these creators individually (as does pretty much anyone who has watched their content tbh), but at least as far as Liam and the boys go their takes on bleach genuinely baffled me. With liam especially in his video praising JJK, he praises it for several similarities bleach happens to share with JJK considering it was the primary inspiration for it, and derides bleach for the same stuff.
it just shows the lack of awareness or integrity many anime fans have when it comes to evaluating a series they personally love compared to a series they have an inherent bias against. there are numerous fans, especially shonen or fans of the other two members of the big 3, who claim to recognize concrete flaws in bleach’s structure yet ignore the fact that these story aspects exist across almost all shounen series. the nature of long form shounen series is repetition, hence why one piece arcs often start with the group discovering a new island and inhabitants that ends up being controlled by a sort of authoritarian, villainous figure who luffy picks a fight with,leading to an ensuing conflict. what matters is the content of the arc itself and how it subverts or presents the audience with something new despite the barebones structure and set up around it being similar, hence why soul society and hueco mundo are inherently different at their core and why one piece has been able to carry on that same arc structure for so long, because of the variation and freshness of its content, not it’s surrounding context. you make a good a point with JJK, as that seems to be one of the new golden boys of anime, yet those who praise it fail to recognize that the praises they sing of the series have oddly enough been criticisms when it comes to a series that they have a bias towards, like bleach. for an actual example, bleach itself is hugely influenced by yu yu hakusho( a series i also love) yet a creator like eyepatch wolf(who i do enjoy) showers YYH with mountains of praise yet derides bleach and heavily misinterprets it despite bleach having many of the same elements, let alone the significant similarities between their plots and protagonists. it’s just wild the extent fans can go to be dismissive of other series. we all have done it at some point i’m sure, but it is important to me to acknowledge those personal shortcomings if you’re trying to evaluate discuss art or anime specifically, no matter if it’s between friends irl or on the internet
Liam is a simple ass dude. He just wants to see some silly characters and action. Ichigo bores him because he isn't "le quirky xddd" enough like Luffy and OP's cast. + You can't say that the guy who says that the current one piece chapter is the "BEST AND MOST IMPORTANT ONE YET" every week for probably close to a year at this point is a man with complete integrity and no desire to farm attention any way necessary. The other dudes are just... Not exactly reputable or respectable. Purgon X and Young Defiant are literally just trolls though
Yet another piss poor attempts at trying to prove that Bleach is "objectively" bad somehow disliking a series is one thing but disliking it or trying to prove it's bad based on piss poor interpretations,misconceptions,misjudgments,misunderstanding,and straight up lies is another thing which is genuinely such an abysmally awful thing to do and it's disingenuous.
What I dislike the most about the Bleach hate bandwagon is how unoriginal it was. These hate videos all used the same exact criticisms made by Super Eyepatch Wolf in his videos about the Fall of Bleach, sometimes even in the exact same wordings. It's always the same old arguments: Ichigo is a passive MC who lacks a goal; there's a lack of background and world-building; Hueco Mundo is an empty desert; supporting characters getting sidelined; similar story beats between arcs, deux-ex-machina power-ups, etc. It was an echo chamber, basically. Everybody wanted to do the cool thing by hating on Bleach, and it had the added benefits of earning clicks from both those who agree and disagree. I even agree with some of those points, but to pretend most of those problems are exclusive to Bleach is nonsensical. I find it quite pathetic how they started back-tracking as soon as the general opinion on Bleach shifted toward the positives with the anime returning.
The fact that Ichigo doesn’t have a “dream” in other words a goal like being hokage or pirate king or even revenge makes him more relatable. At the end of the day Ichigo is just a person who wants to live his life while having the strength to protect those close to him. I ❤️ Ichigo.
I think one of my favorite protagonist types are characters who aren't aiming for something grand, but still grow in order to preserve the things they have or have gained. Ichigo from Bleach and Tsuna from Hitman Reborn are two of my favorite protagonists of all time for this very reason. People shit on their character just because they don't have any bigger goal like other shounen protagonist. But they infact do. They just want to protect people. And they have to constantly grow not only in strength but as a person, understanding themselves and facing themselves is what leads to further growth in their strength, that's what makes them relatable but it's sad that people nitpick that part the most.
@@mysteryman9488 and that’s exactly it! There *IS* more than one way to write a protagonist. Ichigo had no clear ambitions or goals but that wasn’t a bad thing at all! He was a great character despite being reactionary. Just because a character is reactionary does not make for a terrible character! The perfect thing about bleach and it’s characters were that the characters WERE NOT PERFECT! They were like real world teenagers.
@@Red.Decimo Yeah unfortunately we have been condition (especially because of Shonen) to want a protagonist who is larger than life, and that’s doesn’t have to be the case. There is a beauty in simplicity.
Every time Trash Taste boys shit on Bleach I get the feeling they are poking fun. But when they actually get into criticisms, a lot of their arguments always feel so flat or lackluster. It's insane... Like they never really go in-depth with the story as opposed to some of its contemporaries like Naruto. They just want to have the plot and lore spoon-fed. But that's not Bleach's style, that's not Kubo's style. They want what they're used to, and are unwilling to invest or explore. There is no patience with Bleach, and they never read between the lines.
Well connor seems to problems understanding background themes and main themes in a story so yeah I'm not surprise they have in depth criticisms. It's also weird how they start dick riding each other even though they were just arguing opposite points
Trash Taste sounded like they were being sarcastic when they said they were excited, which is why they added that they didnt care about the arc or theyve shit on it before right after.
I actually completely understand why they're hyped, even if they don't really care about Bleach. It's just really cool seeing the anime finally come out of hiatus. I had the same reaction when HxH came back last year.
@@samt3412Wait? HxH is returning? The manga or the anime? I haven’t read the manga at all or watched the anime because I heard it was on hiatus. Been thinking about reading the manga recently. Is it worth reading even if it will remain unfinished?
"The big 3" phenomenon has created false expectation on what each series was trying to achieve by comparing them in elements that the authors didn't intend to have nor focus on in the first place, so instead of criticizing the series for what it does and how well does it do it, you get lukewarm shit like " I want it to do this thing that I like form the other series and if it doesn't do it it's bad" and the chapter reviews community was filled with these garbage takes and more. I feel like Bleach would've been better received if it came out during this era, which is in my opinion, the most rich era for shounen action series has ever been, instead of the toxic big 3 era.
Oh my god. THIS. You’re totally on the money right here. Coming from someone who lived through all of that era and even before. Those times were NOTHING to be proud of when it came to discussing or enjoying differences between one series and another (those three in particular) it was a fucking BLOODBATH just naming one series over the other you’d have to be a fucking hooligan to get your voice even heard.
Another reason is simply that this demography is doomed to forever be targeted at teens or post-teens at best. So you’ll always see normies talking out loud about topics like productions and such which they have ZERO knowledge about. They picked their info on a FB or Twitter comment or someone on UA-cam speculating about issues they got no information whatsoever to sustain such claims. THAT right there is what caused Bleach such harm in the last 5 or 6 years.
Its even more ridiculous since Oda, Kubo and Kishimoto are all acquainted with each other and described their "rivalry" as friendly since at the end of the day, they were all co-workers on the same company.
Bleach is part of the reason as to why some of these shounen hits are out today so if it were to come out these days, I doubt that it would be as well recieved tbh
my friend has never been exposed to bleach all his life so I've been able to get him in to it in the past couple of months, and he has shown nothing but love in his time watching it. He's never seen nor a video bashing Bleach or praising it prior to him watching it. This was an honest raw reaction from someone who's been exposed to modern animation and storytelling, so I thought at first that it might turn him off but actually no. Yes there were times where we made fun of some wacky dialogue and very poor animation, but that was about it.
7:45 agree with you, would like to mention additionally - after soul society arc I was only thrown off by the fillers because I had not yet read the manga and did not realize a filler had begun (with bounts).
Tbh I I don't see how having the "aiming for the top" type of protagonist goals is a plus for a series. And that is what makes characters like Ichigo feel more realistic. Not everyone has to graduate as valedictorians or become NBA champions. People just want to live their lives and deal with whatever sh*t has thrown at them.
I want to be honest about my case, I actually thought after everything happen with Hueco Mundo and Aizen I thought it was fine to end it. I admit I was super wrong when I saw Bleach 20th Anniversary project one-shot and that the anime will be returning. I went ahead and I binge read the series again all over and past where I dropped it at, which was the beginning of Fullbringer Arc. I enjoyed a lot, and I found out a lot new explore a lot of subjects that I never realized of when I was a kid reading it. Rereading as the series now as an adult I was able to analyze what Kubo give in with his art, and noticed a lot of important world-building that he put in. I am not the type of person who is willingly read hundred of chapters; I never read one piece, dropped naruto shippuden, and is rarely willing to put the effort into reading something that has over 300 hundred chapters beside like haikyuu, Iruma-kun, and now Bleach. Kubo is a great writer, and an amazing artist. I never thought Bleach was trash, but it did got stale since I wasn't feeling it during the Fullbringer arc; though I was wrong since it wasn't much about the fighting action, but it explored Ichigo as a character as whole, fullbringer power, and how Ichigo got his power back. While it is not the most exciting arc, but it was a necessary arc for me. I feel like a lot of Bleach flaws is mostly due Kubo health issue, and just not enough time. Imagine pumping these chapter out in a week, thank you Kubo
I like how u decided to pick bleach back up. I would also recommend you to read one piece and Naruto shippuden too theya re good on their own and are enjoyable
@@MayankGupta-th3wt One Piece is a must read but recommending Naruto Shippuden and not the prequel isn’t gonna do it. Always start Naruto from the very beginning.
FINALLY this is the video I wanted to see... exposing these fake Bleach fans. The thing is they are going to hype everything up and trash talk the show once it's airing.
I’m actually glad he added him, cause when I took a good hard look at his channel, he’s definitely a disgrace of a UA-camr and he doesn’t deserve to be one. How can anyone stomach him when he’s literally hating every single one of the shonen anime shows? He hates for the sake of hating and has done to no research whatsoever. That’s why I can’t stand people like him.
My man, you are Zero division status with your indeph, attention to details videos, particularly the Bleach ones. I'm proud to have you as an embassador of the Bleach community. Bleach has been close to my heart since I started it in 2005 and I have endured this hate for 2 decades, more so in the later half and it has been tough.. since most people follow the crowd when it comes to forming their opinion, but I've endured it all. Needless to say, this video is a love letter to those of us who remained stoic through the tempest.
No, I am gatekeeping. I started reading the manga during the arrancar arc, all the way through to the end of the series. I continued enjoying the franchise when there was nothing new for years. Reading the TYBW several times, watching the anime every year, explaining why I loved the series when it was more popular to hate. When I finally had steady income I finally bought the full manga physically, got all the supplementary material I could find. I advocated for the anime return every chance I could. I never lost my love for bleach. I am all for new fans finding the franchise but I will never accept the people that spent years bashing bleach acting like they have loved it all along now that it is popular again. I won't accept the opinions of people who don't understand the themes and message of bleach, setting aside if they understand writing literally at all. I will not welcome the people with awful takes and no understanding of the characters. I won't welcome the people with awful opinions about the art and just ignore everything Kubo has ever explained about his process and why things are formatted the way they are. I am gatekeeping, everyone who spent years hating bleach can piss off and keep out of the fanbase. New fans I welcome with open arms. Returning fans that just went on with life can get right in line with us. But I will absolutely not respect or welcome anyone who put bleach down coming back and acting like they have loved it all along.
@@Mr-7ou6gn if you said some characters didn't get developed i get you like chad most of the vizards some espadas. But NONE! Is suprising no work has ever flushed out all characters.
One of the things that drew me towards Ichigo as a protagonist is his similarities to Peter Parker. In my eyes Ichigo is probably the closest thing we have to an anime Spider-Man, even with characters like Deku who is a literal Superhero. So I appreciate the comparison in this video
Lol same. Also if you think about it Ichigo is more compatible with the young of now than before. With Dragon ball came the wave of "i want to be the best" protags, naruto, luffy, natsu?, Kon, deku, ash/satoshi, etc. Reach the dream, frienship. But now what young people feel? Doubt, insecurity, loss, confusion, depresion, all this because they where told the previous generation perslective, but thing changed. So what they WANT now? Stability, oportunity, confort, happines, a MODEST LIFE. And having the strength to at least PROTECT that. A house, a family, friends, a stable work, free time, a hobby. That is why i think Ichigo is a protag of NOW. This is THE TIME for BLEACH!
Ichigo is like peter?, the idea of peter parker is that he is just a normal guy who got a sudden power and with it came a great responsibility while ichigo was born from a soul reaper father and a Quincy mother and was able to see ghosts ever since he was a kid.
I can see the comparison somewhat but Peter deals alot more with the consequences of being spider-man than Ichigo has to with being a soul reaper. The one thing I don't like about the discourse surrounding Ichigo is that people bring up that he lives in the modern world; that might have somewhat been true during the first arc but in the overall story Bleach is far from taking place in the modern world. Aside from the superpowered beings, Peter has to deal with more modern/ realistic situations like paying rent, upholding relationships, focusing on his career while also taking up the responsibility to be a hero. The struggles Ichigo faces stem in the supernatural like the death of his mother and his relationship with zangestu. Peter feels he needs to protect his loved ones because of the death of Uncle ben and how he lacked the responsibility to act on preventing it; Ichigo on the other hand does so because he just feels guilty for his mother's death but whereas peter is partly to blame for ben's death Ichigo isn't for his mother's death and only puts blame on himself based of survivor's guilt. ichigo does have a sense of great power comes great responsibility but what main hero doesn't have that? Peter's is different because the in that moment he was somewhat responsible.
Forneverworld is a good example of the animosity that exists between the big 3 fandoms. Remember that Naruto official manga ended in 2014, and people used to rage about Bleach going while Naruto ended. Bleach ended two years later and they started to bash the series like never before. There's a lot to be said but all in all it's a sad case of shitting on series you have no understanding of.
"It may sound like I'm gatekeeping." Yes you are and we need more of that. The hypocrisy needs to be called out especially from people who spent the last few decade shitting on Bleach and its fans trying to walk back in and pretend that none of that happened.
but what if these people geniuely changed their opinions ? they’re a bunch of series i used to shit on then i actually got to like them the more i got into it
It's like how Prequel haters want to suddenly pretend how oh they were always on George Lucas's side and that Disney "Betrayed" him when in actuality the whole reason he sold the series was because the "fans" were treating him like dogshit. I don't feel an ounce of pity for people who are upset about the sequels because they did it to themselves. Over and over I had to watch people not just bash the prequels but harass the actual people behind them to the point where Amhad Bhest actually considered suicide. And it's the same thing with the sequel triliogy too, in my opinion Kathleen kenedy should never have folded to the fans bitching after the Last Jedi but stuck to what was being done in that movie to introduce new elements into the story. I really enjoy Rise of Skywalker but there is a very clear sense of trying to please people who did'nt enjoy the Last Jedi.
I know that this is a very minor point, but that guy at the end claiming that Vasto Lorde Ichigo is an asspull is just flat out wrong. When Ichigo defeats his inner hollow, his hollow outright says that Ichigo better not die, or else he will take control over his body again. And if he means his inner hollow in general is an asspull that's also wrong. When Ichigo regains his shinigami powers, he has a hollow mask. And throughout the soul society arc there are multiple times that the hollow mask mysteriously reappears to save him from attacks that would otherwise kill him. Which culminates in his hollow outright taking over his body against Byakuya. Those are what we in the writing business call, foreshadowing. Almost as if Bleach has good writing.
The passion with which DBZimran talks about Bleach is so heartwarming and inspiring. Love your videos man keep up the great work and know that you have my eternal respect!
@@lanariy6362 i fail to see how bleach is a great series and has interesting characters, the whole thing seems to run in a direction in which all events done by side characters are completely useless and the main character has to magically solve things. you may as well remove many characters and it wouldnt change anything.
I genuinely love how NWR's most hated part of bleach is Aizen stopping ichigo with a single finger. That is, second to none, my favorite scene in the first arc. After all the powering up he does, and fighting off Byakuya so well, to be stopped with a single finger showed just how far the power scaled in the universe.
@@scythe7045 How is Bleach a good story if he repeats the exact same arc multiple times? It sounds to me more like an awful story, where the author even admitted that the only point of his manga is "cool fights".
Nah, we don't need to hone in that Ichigo is has an overarching goal within the series. Since having an specific goal is not the must need key to be a good story lol. Like as much as they say LOOK AT OP, NARUTO, DEATH NOTE, etc. There are also good stories that are as well recieved that don't have such thing like, Yuyu Hakusho, Tokyo Ghoul, Chainsawman, BERSERK and etc. Shit just happens and the MC still actively does something within the story. Heck even HxH ended up like this one since Gon achieved his dream but the story still goes on. And look, they are series that tends to a more darker tone like Bleach.
Being mixed race, I found how ichigo being a hybrid of quicny, Hollow, shinigami etc very relatable. as Icnigo tried to come to peace with each part of humself I also had to understand different parts of myself and the amalgamation of culture. I am not hating on the others but he was, at least to me the most relatable protagonist in the big 3. I would also like to add that a character doesn't need to be relatable to be well crafted. Thinking that characters most be relatable to be considered great seems to come from a place of pure narcissism. Throughout literature you will find a plethora of great characters, and it should be noted that relatablity is not what makes Hamlet great. You will hardly meet anyone who could contend with the wrath of Achillies or the Honor of Hector, but that doesn't disqualify them as poorly developed.
I said it before, and Ill say it again. First it was Clyde who really understood Bleach , and then like a ray of light you DBZ came down with the Ruined reputation of Bleach Video after I saw Supereyepatch wolfs video on The Fall of bleach. I remember having so many debates on that video, primarily arguing why Ichigo wasnt a bad protagonist and that the end of Aizen WAS NOT where Bleach shouldve ended. I had my own issues with Bleach back in the day but that was because of anime stuff like Filler arcs that hurt the pacing especially in the Arrancar arc but I still loved it and the characters. I stand by that Ichigo is one of the greatest shonen protagonists and one of the more unique ones and that Bleach will always be one of the big 3.
Yeah. He's not your typical happy idiot that loves food, fighting, and/or being a perv. He's smart, cool under pressure, has a quick wit, and most importantly he's relatable.
@@Zac_Frost that woudnt work well with most shonen viewers. Most people read manga and anime to escape relateability and real world stuff not be reminded of it. Ichigo is inconsistent, i dont mind characters with inner conflicts. In hueco mundo that was done great with white however the fullbring arc made him so weak and unperceptive which wasnt the case when he stormed soul society and beat kenpachi and byakuya or when he conquered his fears to beat aizen. For many, Aizen is bleach strong point not ichigo. Instead of progressing to a stronger character mentally, he went backwards as a character to doubt his dad and kisuke for a stranger. In the tybw arc he was done ok but even then rukia and the other captains overshadowed him.
@@Zac_Frost good cast of surrounding characters like byakuya, kenpachi, yamamoto etc. Aizen brilliance as a mastermind(sales fell when he was removed from the story hence his brought back), variety of themes and good fight scenes with tense action. Ichigo is a good protagonist but was inconsistent as a character, he was written really well in the soul society-arrancar arc but was mishandled in the fullbring arc, he alone cant carry bleach to the big 3.
NewWorldReview's biggest problems seems to be that he's unable to characters inner conflicts or goals, but is fixated on outer material goal. Rukia's character is focused on her relationship with her brother, his former teacher Kaien Shiba and Renji. As the story progressed she managed to solve these problematic relationships, find inner peace which was shown externally by her gaining bankai. This is in fact far more relatable goal for a character than external "I WaNt To Be PiRaTe HoGaIgE!!"
It's funny how when everyone compares a Bleach character to another Shonen series, it's fucking ALWAYS One Piece and Naruto Yet they NEVER talk about what say, Son Gokū's goal is, or what any of the Joestar family's goals are
The hate on Boruto was not so much for Boruto. Boruto's hate is kinda unfair, cause what people ACTUALLY hate is how badly written the last arc was and how the series ended. But since they can't hate much on it, cause of nostalgia and feelings, they hate on the new thing, as if "Boruto is the reason it's bad", when, overall, Boruto is a decent manga, flawed from the beginning for being the continuation of an already very flawed story
@@vcamv2354 Hmm, in my opinion right now, I don't feel hype for the manga as much as i used to. Boruto haters trash the anime for so called "fillers" which are supposed to be anime canon while praise the manga. I mean bro, side characters in Boruto Manga are forgotten. Sarada and Mitsuki haven't appeared in the manga for like what 4 or 5 months? They only focus on Boruto and Kawaki. The anime made the side characters have development and screentine.
@@miember676 side characters in Naruto overall are forgotten and only the fillers help it. And while I do agree the anime has some quality, the same principle applies. Both are a product of a doomed series
I don't understand the problem with so-called "passive characters"? Why does every main character need to be motivated by external goals? It's just a Shonen trope.
Say what you want about Shonen protagonists and their goals, but at least they were proactive. Ichigo just waits for things to happen. That's why he feels like a side character to his own story. But what do I expect from Bleach fans they're just dumbasses who like bankais, ass pulls, shallow characters and an uninteresting protagonist.
What I find sad and ironic is the fact that the only reason I know who Forneverworld is is because I watched his Bleach chapter reviews for YEARS every week after I would read the chapter. Seeing him turn into a bandwagon bleach hater a year or so after the series ended while he was pivoting to other trendy anime was incredibly disappointing and kinda depressing.
I started Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece at the same time and love all three. But it is Bleach and always Bleach that I love most because it is most relatable and most importantly matures the best with time. I was Ichigo age when I started and now have a kid of my own. I get WAY more stuff in Bleach as I've grown older and I kid you not, every arc gets better and more relatable in every stage of my life. No other shonen has given that to me. Not Naruto, not MHA, not Dragonball. But Bleach is poorly written don't forget that...
Two things my good sir. 1: I love your content so much. 2: The point that he doesnt have anywhere to go (power wise) after the Aizen finger or implying that its Ichigo then Aizen. Ignoring everyone Ichigo would lose to at the time. Especially leading up to the fight between him and Byakuya. I'm SURE that if he fought a Captain that wasnt literally holding himself back, the story would've been different. Im pointing this out only to say that he did have a ways to go. And it's more apparent when we see the other characters powers are revealed and explored. We see what he becomes, hell what everyone becomes. Sidenote: I would love to see Aizen put that figure up to the head captian-commander (I would pay money for a what if episode.)
I thought Fornever was a fan now? Supereyepatch wolf was the biggest hater that comes to mind, you already addressed this. You aren’t a gatekeeper, you’re in my top 10 or even 5 of Animetubers. Tommo (I forget his full mantle) is another awesome youtuber that is passionate
Ngl and I don’t want to cause a argument here but Tommo jump the bandwagon as well. He started making bleach vids again when the popularity went up due to a bleach return 2 years ago
@@bbpoisonn he stopped making them for awhile intill bleach got confirmed to be coming back like I said I don’t want to cause a argument just my two cents that’s all
Thank you man I'm all for them changing their mind but they need to be called out and own up to their mistake so we can all just be friends at the end of the day
As DBZ started his commentary on Ichigo's 'passive character' situation, I paused the video and was thinking to myself, 'What about the characters of the MCU, the currently most popular Western entertainment empire? How many of those characters have 'grand dreams' like Luffy and Naruto? Did Tony Stark begin the whole MCU experience by deciding to become, I don't know, something like 'The World's Greatest Superhero'?' And then I unpaused the video and DBZ started comparing Ichigo to Peter Parker, and I thought, 'Welp, yep, that's an even better comparison'. Everyone who makes that argument always associates Bleach with Naruto and One Piece since they were the 'Big 3' of the 00s and therefore since Bleach was different than those two it was a failure. It's a very odd sentiment, because the whole 'kid with a mega dream' is not actually that common of a character trait. It's actually a lot more of a rarity, and 'passive/reactive' characters like Ichigo are much more common and are lauded and loved, especially here in the west. Starlord, Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, and many others from the MCU and even DC superheroes like Batman and Superman tend to be more 'reactive', some event in their past or the circumstances around them push them to become what they are, and they fulfill that role because of their inherit character traits. Peter Quill was just a boy kidnapped and raised by space pirates who was living day to day and looking to break off. Stark was a man who already HAD everything, until a moment of tragedy showed him a world that was a result of the consequences of his irresponsible actions and decided to start doing something about it. Steve Rogers just wanted to fight in the war with his buddies because he thought the Axis party were a bunch of bullies who needed to be stopped. Spider-Man DBZ covered. Batman's big overarching goal is generally a vague 'fight crime' because he doesn't want tragedies like what happened to his parents repeated, and Superman, like Spider-Man and Ichigo, has powers and feels he has a duty to use those powers to help people. Beyond superheroes, other beloved protagonists are similarly driven by the plot to shape the world around them, like Luke Skywalker. Sure, Luke had 'grandiose' dreams of leaving the moisture farm on Tattooine and do bigger things, but they were vague, and not what led him to finally leaving; it was the appearance of the Droids, beating Obi-Wan, and finally having his home destroyed and aunt and uncle killed that drove him to become a hero. Even many other SJ protagonists fall under this category but are never derided for it; while 'collect the Dragonballs' seemed to be the main purpose of the Dragonball manga, that was never really the goal of Goku himself, and that plot point was largely decided early and Goku's journey became a very reactive path of meeting threats and enemies and fighting them, and meeting strong people and working to become stronger than them. Yusuke Urameshi was a punk kid who was completely lost until one split-second decision ended his life and changed his world forever. Kenshin Homura simply wanted to live a peaceful life free of his dark past. Ditto for Train Heartnet. While there certainly are other characters who could be defined as largely being 'active' and 'goal-driven' in their plot line in SJ manga, like Gon and Deku, it is by no means the dominant characteristic of SJ protagonists, let alone good protagonists in general. Why is that? Because it's traditional for antagonists to drive the plot. Even in manga like Naruto and One Piece where they move from event to event in pursuit of their goals, they inevitably find themselves being led or pushed into a new plot by the actions of the villain of the arc. Just being an active hero doesn't prevent or change that. It's the way basic story structure works, and that's fine. Trying to judge an anime/manga protagonist by whether or not they have a 'clearly-defined, overarching goal' is like having a class of students state their goals for the future and then telling everyone who didn't answer 'become Presidient of the US' or 'become World Champion' that they're a failure. I followed all 3 of the Big 3 in varying degrees throughout the 00s and early-10s, until Bleach and then Naruto finally ended, but Bleach was always my favorite of the 3, and Ichigo by far is my favorite protagonist of the 3 as well. His 'desire to protect' instilled in him by his father's lectures on his name and the death of his mother is just as riveting, powerful and endearing as Naruto's quest to become Hokage and gain respect and acknowledgement or Luffy's quest to become King of the Pirates and find the 'One Piece' of Gol D. Roger, if not more so. Everyone who watches or reads Bleach with an intelligent and open mind understands the significance of his character and can only agree when he is, at the end of the Fullbringer Arc, acknowledged as the man who 'changed the Soul Society' and its millennia of tradition. The man who changed the Soul Society. Not a bad feat for a passive character than can only react to the stimuli that the plot introduces to him.
A passive protagonist is not inherently bad it’s just harder to get right. Because you have to move the world around them instead of just having to move them. This requires that they have other traits. And sometimes when I read bleach past a certain point it feels like Kubo struggles to write ichigo and the gang into their own story like how chad basically had nothing in the fulbringer arc .
That point of goals of characters is really on point , some can be huge goals and some can be simple. I mean Goku is huge but has overall just wanted to fight strong people. Not only till recently did his goals change in the Moro Arc .
The craziest thing about this is that the people including myself that kept good faith in bleach this whole time had to argue and defend bleach😂. Now it’s coming back people groin riding hard😂
The thing about New Workd Reviews critiques about bleach, can fit EXACTLY onto his favorite series…HxH. What are gons goals? Lol, it’s such a ridiculously vapid critique
Gon's goal isnt a huge as luffy or naruto. Also even compared to new shonen mcs, it's even less. Izuku wants to be a hero, tanjiro wants to save his sister and make her human, senku wants to save humanity and yujii wants to help guide people to a proper death and exercise sakuna and other curses. Ichigo's goal isnt as extravagant but it's still a valid one which comes from the trauma he faced losing his mom. With Gon he never had a relationship with his dad but us as the viewers chear him on. People need to stop hating on ichigo for having a less extravagant goal. It's still nobel.
I started bleach last week, finished it 2 days ago. I didn’t watch it just because of the bandwagon hype train, it’s just that when animes are on hiatus it just drives me from watching them. But it was always considered a decent anime for me from the clips i would watch. The problem I have is that the people who genuinely announced the fall of bleach and hated it now fall to the bandwagon hype train and acting like they true fans.
And it went for years, it started when the anime ended back in 2012 and even kept going after the manga ended. ForneverWorld's entire channel was built upon hating Bleach on a weekly basis.
I’m so glad you did this video. Because I’m really getting fed up with the haters out there that still want to trash Bleach for no apparent reason and recommending people not to watch the series, that to me is a automatic L. And not to mention people want to play follow the leader and not bother thinking of their own opinions about Bleach wether they should watch it or not. Each and every one of these videos including ForneverWorld that you exposed have literally lost credibility with me, cause they definitely don’t understand Bleach up at that level. I was able to figure the whole series out by watching the anime and reading the manga, completely understanding everyone of the characters and appreciating what Kubo has done by telling a great story. I’m proud to have own the complete series and I’m definitely hyped for the anime adaptation for the TYBW arc. I never once believed that Bleach was dead. I’m glad it came into my life and started to become a fanfic writer for Bleach cause I love the characters. Anyways, thanks for exposing and debunking the haters for Bleach, it really made my day. Love what you do and I’m glad I subbed to someone who completely understands this franchise more than anyone.
As someone who watched bleach, and read tybw and enjoyed the series, I wanted to ask if you read the complete manga, and if so, which one did you enjoy more between the anime and manga?
@@hna98 Good question. It’s a combination of both since I’m both manga reader and anime watcher. I have reread the TYBW arc and then reread from the Substitute Shinigami arc to the Fullbringer arc.
I never thought I would actually want to watch this whole thing. Yet I did, and am back a month or so later to do so again. So much more entertaining than I would have thought, but that’s mostly the Bleach lover in me.
I think many assumed that Aizen was going to say “human and Soul Reaper”, but that was intentionally a red herring. But I guess it wouldn’t make sense narratively why his dad would try to interrupt him if that were the case.
Thank you so much for making this video. We need a ''block'' button for every UA-cam channel. I'm sick and tried of seeing these trash UA-camrs spreading misinformation.
I think the reason why bleach was always picked on for so many years is because its not made so simple and dumb down like naruto and one piece fans always like whats easy and simple but when bleach breaks the formula at their used too its suddenly becomes bad apparently which sucks because doing things differently is why i love shows like bleach claymore YYH hunter x hunter hitman reborn and D gray man
This is also what i think the amount of people i've seen not understanding so many parts of bleach is insane some still think ichigo's hollofication against ulquiorra came out of nowhere
I started watching Bleach back in 2013, about a year after the official anime has ended. At the time I was still in my first year of high school. I watched the entire anime including the fillers and read the remainder of the series (i.e. the TYWB arc) in the manga. Ever since then the series has always kept a special place in my heart. Ichigo was felt very relatable to me and the story, characters, and lore captivated me from start to finish. I can never see eye to eye with people who hate on it and honestly it's their loss. Bleach is an amazing story every step of the way and I am thrilled after seeing the trailer for the new anime being released. After so many years of waiting and constant disappointment, we finally get the return of the anime that we have wished for. All the haters that said "Bleach is dead" can suck it!!!
I dropped Bleach in 2011, then picked it back up in 2013. I ended up reading all of the chapters and watching all of the episodes. Years later, your video BLEACH: Ruined Reputation helped me put into words what I couldn't quite put my finger on: the reasons why I love Bleach and ultimately why I picked it back up. This video right here is another excellent one. Subscribed.
Fair enough change your mind, but don't be a hypocrite.
Agreed
exactly
Thank you for bringing this into the lime light. Because some of these so called reviewers are nothing more than pleabs and trend seekers
👏👏👏
you a goat
“Do you want Ichigo to become the Soul King?”
NOBODY SHOULD EVER WANT THIS.
@Silver Kaizer
^ This right here... Yet, I don't see why NewWorldReviews would imply that he'd like that.
@@DemonicRemption He never watched Bleach to the end, he doesnt know shi&$. Im glad i never was subbed to this scrub.
@@DemonicRemption Because he didn't bother to get that far and yet gives his opinion on something he doesn't know. I for one never got the appeal of One Piece and didn't get into it. Doesn't mean it's bad it's just not my cup of tea and I wouldn't give my opinion on it.
@@DemonicRemption It's less that and more *being the Soul King is a fate worse than death.*
It’s not part of Aizen’s plan bro
Honestly, I don't mind people who dislike Bleach for legitimate reasons, it's their right to do so. What I do dislike are the people who hate on Bleach for no reason other than "it's cool to do so". That and morons who say "Bleach should've ended after Aizen", because they clearly ignore the countless unresolved plot threads.
I remember someone telling me Bleach was dead and not EVER coming back just a few weeks ago, mere days before the trailer dropped. Despite the fact that I told them about the exhibition and trailer they refused to believe me and kept parroting "Bleach is DEAD!!!!"
Yeah, people can dislike whatever they one and Bleach is not entitled to everyone's love, but some people seem to actually dislike that people like it.
Yea I’ll never understand why ppl are like this
Sorta like a video game series of a blue hedgehog that had style, attitude and ambition like bleach.
@@chillykomasan7971 What sucks is that the mob mentality has actually affected the Blue Blur since Team Sonic seems desperate for those people's approval.
Stopping at Aizen would have robbed Bleach of one of the best action Yamamoto ever made by ordering the Captains to give part of their powers to the sword so that Ichigo could get his power back and Hat and clog finally being recognized as being innocent of Aizen crime.
This how I describe each arc of bleach in one word:
Substitute shinigami: grieve
Soul society: resolve
Arrancar: instinct
Fullbring: inner turmoil
TYBW: Truth
Based
Fullbring: Strife, maybe? Strife referring to not only the inner turmoil but also his disagreement with the gang over Tsukishima and how much he struggled during the arc to regain power.
Or
Substitute shinigami: get power
Soul society: rescue
Arrancar: rescue
Fullbring: get power
Tybw: Truth
Hell: Revenge
@@Celty.Sturluson I would say either Lies or uncovered (why uncovered or lies? Because we were told throughout the story that the butterflies that guide the shinigamis are normal butterflies that guide them only to know later on that we were *Lied* to
For uncovered I say because we have so many mysterys to *uncover*
Bleach Haters Now: “Since when were you under the impression that I wasn’t a Bleach fan.”
@Sex'' Allatus Angelus I’ve never heard anything cornier In my life
@Sex'' Allatus Angelus 😂😭
You shouldn't be doing people like that, my friend.
@@iamlocus ok "i am locus".
@@iamlocus Okay Mid vs Blue fan
i am still not a bleach fan ,,,
"Painfully Average"
The protagonist isn't a food addicted stereotype who only cares about girls.
The character designs are unique and memorable.
It has one of the best villains in all of anime who is often overlooked by the majority of people.
The music slaps.
People who hate Bleach are Painfully average.
What protagonist are you talking about?
@@iamlocus He's talking about Deku
If your argument is based on character design and music, then you have no argument at all. You just like garbage bc of nostalgia
@@PixelateThat You're just Jealous that Bleach's Author has a good sense of fashion.
@@Blue__Oni "Food addicted", "only cares about girls" and you say he is talking about deku? You have got to be memeing. I cant even recall a shonen protagonist who's defining traits are food addicted and only cares about girls.
I always disliked how they used certain arguments to criticize bleach and just ignore it with other shows they love...or praise some shows for things bleach did just as well if not better but not even mention it when talking about bleach...back in the day watching the big three weekly having to deal with those fans was annoying af
I believe there’s a word for that it’s called “hypocrites”
I hate when they complain that Bleach has too many characters meanwhile they're fine with My Hero Academia, Attack On Titan
I don’t think it’s considered gate keeping like everyone says. It’s just sad to see that people who were previously talking so much crap about the series act like it’s such a great series and they always liked it. I’ve been watching the series for years, but dropped it after some time. I got back into it during about 2019, and I was in love with it. Then I heard that the anime was finally coming back, so I was waiting until the trailer to finish the series. Needless to say, it was an amazing ending. Mind you, Im an anime only, with some knowledge of the manga. I understand how the real fans feel, after getting so much shit, and now that it’s coming back, they’re being friendly with them.
Same bro I fell off of anime for a couple of years and I recently came back to it and my love for bleach grew exponentially higher now that I'm an adult
I hope you're including yourself in that "real fans" bit, cause you are a real fan of bleach my friend.
You guys are my family, bleach is my favorite anime so screw everyone else
Opinions change over the years bro
I think this isnt much as "gatekeeping" but more of challenging missinformation.
I remember i saw Eyepatch wolf video, then the counter video and the apology of Eye patch later.
Tho, eye patch touch in some uknown fact, like shonen mural having like 3 dekus, 2 luffies, 3 narutos, but NO character of bleach.
I don’t know why people hate on Bleach it’s really well written and the characters are really likeable. It’s funny to see all the Bleach haters jump back onto bleach.
Same
Its BS they act like no other manga or anime has flaws in it which isnt true. Every anime I've seen has something I don't like, if it's too much dislike I dont finish but if its just a few but everything amazing I can care less about a few flaws
It's like he said they are bandwagoners
@@treygreypaws3689 exactly just because he’s not like Naruto and Luffy who want to be hokage and pirate king, he actually has a goal and it’s really simple
My issue with Bleach wasn't the story or characters but how the anime was paced. Granted the manga was slow as well but that's what I think led to the slowness of the anime. All long running Shonen have this issue at some point, Naruto, Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, and I'm glad it stopped with them now being seasonal, giving us 26 episodes a year instead of every week. And I think they're stronger for that.
The reason I love bleach and Ichigo more than OP and Naruto is because he doesn't dream of being someone great, instead, he just wants to become strong for the sake of protecting others. Simple, yet so realistic and relatable just like how Spiderman was written to be relatable by normal people, having everyday problems.
Same buddy
That’s a fair enough opinion but I like OP more for exactly the opposite, Luffy who has all those qualities of becoming strong for the sake of others but he also dreams big and inspires me to want to be more than “normal people”
It's so crazy that as BLEACH fans we had to deal with these people spreading misinformation, harassing fans for no reason other than they thinks it's funny and blatant lies and hate. Now that the series is coming back and there's a huge wave of hype around it they're coming in hordes to grift off it.
People like you, Clyde, Jaymes and the fandom that held onto their love of the series were there throughout the drought. We as a community were there, getting shat on by these people and now they want to come in and act like they had the same love for it that we do.
I can't with these people.
I also strongly recommend mrtommo2304 a great bleach youtuber!
@@RapThorX4 I was just about to day can't forget about the Boi mrtommo lol
Love you're pfp👌
@@ジャンボ-n1k Hoping I get some good fluff from the art community including my boy, Yoruichi and Soi Fon.
lmfao it's just an anime dude it's not that serious
Man you hammered the nail in the coffin with this one. I'm only up to the part where you compare Ichigo to Peter Parker and it's soo true, "With great power... comes great responsibility". Like you said as well when Rukia told Ichigo in chapter 2 that he has to make a choice to save every soul, that was pretty much her giving him the uncle Ben speech! Ichigo is not some perfect hero that never fails or makes the wrong choices and that is why his character is soo believable. He is unlike another other shonen protagonist and that it why I respect him and Mr Kubo for making him the way he is.
I agree Bleach doesn't deserve some of the hate and ichigo is down to earth and is like spiderman.
I love how he disregards the Arrancars as “shallowly written characters”, yet stopped watching Bleach entirely BEFORE the Hueco Munco arc.
*How very ignorant*
That's what makes me so mad about this
I don't mind if people don't like things and don't finish them. I don't mind those people stating those opinions. So long they are aware that they are stating OPINIONS and about things that they KNOW about
@@tamashiranai1091 facts. I stopped My Hero in season 2 cause it wasnt for me. I would never go out of my way to trash on it because i havent even caught up on the series so i have no right to comment on it.
@@fishnutz5196 exact same thing here!
Not only bleach but that also happens with jojo's
That’s like saying water is cold when you’ve never touched it
I'm glad someone said this. I hate how people start loving Bleach when it's relevant for views but they were hating on it for views. It's fake
Edited: Apparently Bleach has a toxic community. Up until recently we "didn't have a fans". It's what it is. People can't have an open mind
Yeah
But your ok with a guy trying to cap and start UA-cam drama for views I've always enjoyed dbs content but this is nothing more then clout chasing fornever puts out some of the absolute best anime news and content out there worry less about other ppl and focus more on your own views and life pretty disappointed that he even put this out
@@michaelanthony2520 Yeah, sucks when a creator you enjoy is exposed.
@@michaelanthony2520 Hold on. I'm a Fornever and Trash taste sub. I watch every one of Forn's videos but I can detach myself from it if he says something off. We can't label smaller UA-camrs as clout chasers if they speak out on hypocrisy. For delivers great news but he can give messy opinions too. Also remember that DBZ is a Bleach content creator, this is his main focus, 100 videos of Bleach. When an anime content creator speaks on the superficial reasons for why Bleach "isn't good", you'd have to expect someone to point out their issue
@@KG45Brham there not issues though there opinions I don't like the filler in Naruto that don't mean Im a fake fan of the series these shows are created to bring people together and watch and enjoy there's ups and downs in every anime so I'm not going to sit here and act like for never saying that the series is in a bad place as him completely hating the series all together I definitely get your point but realistically he's firing shots just to get views how is that any different from what he's trying to say is being a hypocrite my point is why not reach out to one of these guys and have an actual adult conversation with them instead of trying to slander their name over an opinion try and change their mind if they're already questionable with bleach as a whole and then you start showing them that the bleach community is toxic as hell that's just going to push them further away
For me personally, Watching Bleach helped me to change my life in a better direction. Before watching it I was addicted to Porb and was a fat slob, but seeing Ichigo in action as well as watching him struggle and fight for his friends and family helped me to realise that I needed to change myself to be more like him, so over the last year I got my priorities in order, went from obese at 205 lbs down to 145lbs and decided to spend some time with those I care about more. It hurts me seeing these baseless and mob-esque claims about Ichigo being boring and plain while to me, he is my Number One (no pun intended) anime protagonist.
hey congratulations i'm glad u strived for change bleach definitely inspired change out of me too
Legend ❤️
Porb lmao. Great way to dodge the sensors.
Lol nice joke ichigo is sucks
Ay yo grats on the weight loss, I been using Itadori Yuji as motivation for my journey, started at 245 now im at 190 after six months, once I lose another 20 I'll finally have fulfilled my goal.
I would like to add that Ichigo's desire isn't just there because of him not wanting others to lose someone like him but the guilt that's always present in him plays a big role as well. When Ichigo is destroyed by Byakuya and Rukia is taken to the soul society, we have Ichigo monologing " I was saved again" this guilt often results in him not putting enough trust in the strength of his friends and putting all the responsibility solely on himself as we see in the HM arc. The Vasto Lorde transformation is this hero complex formed by the guilt he feels coming to bite him in the form of the very monster that he was fighting against. There are many facets to Ichigo's character.
Your wasting your life. Become a psychiatrist.
@@shantywarburton6187 you’re wasting your life. Become a job consultant. But first, work on your spelling.
Great analysis. Adding on more, Ichigo's Vaste Lorde transformation is indeed "White" or hollow-Ichigo, his birthright hollow-powers received from his mother and actually his Zanpakuto spirit named Zangestu, responding to not only Ichigos desire to protect but also hollow-Ichigo own will to live, as hollow-Ichigo does not want Ichigo to die because he also will. Quincy's (unless your Yhwach) do not have power over death, shinigami's and hollow's do. When Ichigo was "killed" by Ulquiorra, Ichigo despaired over failing his friends (despair is one of many way a soul becomes a hollow) the combination of plus having a hole in his body and absording Hueco Mundo energies allowed hollow-Ichigo to overtake Ichigo's quincy side turning Ichigo into a 100% hollow albeit with shinigami powers. Only when a hollow 's mask is chipped or broken can the original soul gains its consciousness back (like when Ichigo chipped Orihime's brothers hollow mask, he regained a bit of humanity) which Ulquiorra does by cutting of a single horn on Ichigo's hollow mask.
Ichigo's power-ups are not simple things with him being 1/3 Quincy, 1/3 Shinigami, 1/3 Hollow just makes his character depth that much deeper more interesting than all the other characters in Bleach, imo.
@@DarkRogue107 Great add-on. It's also something to note that white lived with Ichigo's mother and more than likely saw her last moments protecting Ichigo. He takes on the role of a teacher during the whole show and gives Ichigo tough love. I think that while white himself might not want to die, it can also be said that he cares for Ichigo as well.
In general , Ichigos guilt and Depression are a big part oh him. Both resulting from childhood trauma - something a lot of people fail to notice or point out
Bleach haters just "go with the flow", it's like a hive mind. They don't have the capacity of elaborating their own opinions, instead they "borrow" other people's opinions and use it as their own. It's basically what happened and IS happening right now.
Bleach haters = confirmist( also I can guarantee that a huge majority of anime haters that have such a negative attitudes on great series like this have never read a manga and will never be able to due to their very short interest span and extreme lack of intelliect.that’s why everyone does whatever everyone is doing because sadly the majority of the human race can’t determine what is fun, boring,sad,bad.. etc. most go off of what the population deems is fitting because they don’t know any better or don’t know much at all besides to go with the norm in order to ensure their survival and emotional security
Just goes to show that most people are sheep and will just blindly follow whatever the narrative is
Same with Naruto haters, Jojo fans etc.
@@panthekirb7561 bad takes cometh
@@panthekirb7561 yup, but also careful with ones that try to make a few bad things good though. Even some fans know there could be come bad things but dont wanna pretend it's perfect
I'm not the biggest bleach fan, I think it's an okay series. That being said, people criticizing Ichigo for not having a Goal has always pissed me off.
Goku doesn't have a Goal, he just wants to keep surpassing his limits.
Yusuke never had a goal, he just liked being a spirit detective because it was the one thing he was good at.
Kenshin didn't have a goal. He just wanted to protect the weak.
Gintoki doesn't have a goal (as far as I know. Just started Gintama) he just tries to pay the rent on time.
4 of the most iconic protagonist in shounen don't have goals, but it's a problem when Ichigo doesn't have one?
Bro thank you for your insightfulness because they just refuse to break their ignorance😭😭but it's literally because of content creators like these guys on why fans are so ignorant and bashful towards Bleach, that's what this video is basically for, not to gate keep people from watching it like everyone's saying😂😂😂
Faxxx and also funny all these 5 characters are one of my most favs. I love characters like these, don't need no i need to become something or someone to get attention troupe.
You are...pointing out some pretty specific, not universally shared goals, though kenshins and yusukes goes significantly farther than that.
Kenshin and ichigo are my favorite characters
Not having an end goal leaves no scope for overarching storytelling. Their is only a certain time of time such characters can stay interesting.
Gintoki is living the life of a retired man.
ichigo’s resolve to protect and his confidence in himself is a big part of the plot. how could the other reviewers completely miss that?
Because it's not their critique, it's just bandwagon hating. Those arguments are just repeated mindlessly.
They didn't miss it, they just think it's trope-y
@@Nathouuuutheone dont we all wish we had strength to protect our family and loved one? I believe everyone does. Deku and most marvel heroes have literally the same goal as Ichigo but yet Ichigo has no goal cause hes not screaming its goal in every episode lool. If Kubo chose a cliche goal like " i want to be a captain of the 12 guard squad" i guess they would have been happy lol
@@dianeemaleu2697 Don't attribute me arguments I haven't made.
@@dianeemaleu2697 I fully believe it's a bad trope when character scream out their shallow motivation every chapter/episode. I responded to something specific. It doesn't mean I think Ichigo lacks motivation. I kind of do in a way, but not really. In any case, my earlier comment had nothing to do with questions of wether or not Ichigo has a goal.
Your reply is just hammering at nothing. You're too eager to defend with arguments that you don't take the time to NOT put words in people's mouths.
The whole "Protagonists need a goal to be more interesting" is nonsense to me when my favourite Shonen Protagonists are either those with a more down to earth goal or those who's goals boil down to "Survive and beat the wrong do-ers" like the Joestar family, Ichigo and even Yūsuke Urameshi
Exactly, not only that a lot of anime fans especially here in the west believes shonen is this one thing or in a category. Yet there are abundance of shonen with different interesting stories thats not from weekly shonen jump. Like blood blockade battlefront, dai dark, fire punch man, chainsaw man,GTO, Gintama, to your eternity, ancient magus bride, Sprigan, trigun etc.
How about the hypest anime in the current age. Demon slayer. It's "reactive" as hell
@@YGPaus reacting is the closest to reality as most people are reacting off external stimuli
@@xblade149 Are fire punch man, magus bride and to your eternity even shounen? Like aren't they more seinen?
@@xblade149
Honestly having grown up with the anime boom period in America of 1996-2008, I think I get why so many Western anime fans have such a limited view of shonen. See in that aforementioned period we were exposed to a lot of anime. Many titles lived and died by how they were received in the west, and the ones that were widely accepted where the ones like DBZ, Pokemon, and Sailor-Moon.
As a result many fans believe every shonen lead needs a grand ambition, despite that there are many that don't like Kenshin, Yusuke Urameshi, Onizuka, The Elric brothers, Mibu Kyoshiro/Demon Eyes Kyo(assuming you've never heard of Samurai Deeper Kyo), or Tsuna Sawada(Katekyo Hitman Reborn) to name a few.
I mean I was under this impression too until coming across these shonen among others.
I’ll admit I was disappointed in Bleach with how it ended as I felt very cheated, but when I learned more on why it ended like it did I changed my stance on it as it wasn’t Kubo fault for being rushed, and after taking a break and getting back into it these past year I grew to appreciate Bleach a lot more and I really look forward to seeing what more it has in store
He might be able to fix it with the anime. Hope is all we got.
Its funny how the people who used to be the biggest haters of Bleach are its biggest "fans" now.
Respect to everyone who never had secound thoughts about loving this series!!
@@bigt100 if you're still a hater and proud then good for you
The comparison to western comic books was GREAT!! As a Spider-Man and Bleach fan, you’ve given me a new perspective that should’ve been so obvious to me, thanks!
I know man now I got a another argument for my very ignorant friend who said "Ichigo never grew as a character."
Having no goal is literally the worst critique anyone has ever spouted. Aside from the fact that its not true, countless characters in the most critically acclaimed literature of all time don't have a simplistic, lofty personal goal and that didn't stop some of the most lauded writing critics of all time making long and detailed essays analyzing every word and punctuation mark of them. One could say that that only goes for classical literature like novels and stuff and not things like manga but good writing is universal and the hallmarks of it do not differ from medium to medium.
People claiming that such a binary facet as wanting to achieve some grand ambition is a big factor in whether or not a character is good have only outed themselves as having a single digit IQ. They think that only a very specific template of character is good
It's not something that should be said in a debate but none of these people even have the most basic grasp of storywriting. You give them too much credit when you say they demonstrate an understanding of this at points in the video, most likely because at those points they are praising bleach. but even when they praise it they showcase nothing intelligent.
One issue people defending bleach have is that they become a bit 2deep4u to the point where it turns others off. If I may give an honest criticism I think even you fall into this trap now and again. None of the things that make bleach good to people are anything esoteric or require a insane level of dedication or intelligence to understand. when defending bleach you really have to be down to earth and modest and often not much needs to be said in response to bad points. Posting the right panel or page does the trick just fine.
One thing I find ironic is that people that claim that bleach repeated the same arc over and over. Ignoring the fact that it only happened twice, 2 of the most highly regarded series of all time do similar things. The number of times luffy has gone to an island, gotten chummy with the princess and overthrown the government is immense to say nothing of the formulaic structure of the plot in general. The HxH main cast are 1 to 1 equivalents to their Yu Yu Hakusho counterparts. Yusuke-Gon, Killua-Hiei, Kurapika, Kurama, Leorio-kuwabara and bisky-genkai. Im sure if I cared enough to look I could find more but i can't be bothered to. Incensed fans of the 2 aforementioned series might get on my ass for saying that but I never once said it was a bad thing. Clearly it has worked for them and they are almost universally loved. But its fact that they did the same thing as bleach has.
The biggest crime these dumbass youtube anime review channels commit is that essentially they're there to push their own agenda. Nothing said is objective or unbiased which leads to factually incorrect criticisms which could easily apply to other series. Now obviously everyone gets a bit opinionated. It's not as if the people defending bleach have ascended human emotions and only spit facts but its often not as bad as guys like newworldreview and his compatriots because they're arguing from a defensive position.
I could go on indefinitely but this would be the longest youtube comment ever when its already excessively long so I will leave it there.
Precisely.
They take such an incredibly simplistic and basic view towards writing a character, it shows they have 0 understanding of it. Say a bunch of "terms" without even defining why it is bad. In general how these "criticisms" tend to go. Say crap, have no reasoning behind it.
Had similar experience on some crappy writing discord. Arrogant writer wanna bes getting upset if something doesn't follow the most basic formula that exist. But they think they are an authority because they use that formula. Though that is still a step up from these Bleach hate bandwagoners.
They say so many things with confidence and authority, yet still miss the most basic and clear aspects of the story.
Bleach has its issues and in various aspects it definitely isn't amazing, writing wise, though it also has some pretty strong points there. And there definitely are aspects that the vast majority of people won't pick up on very well. In general Bleach tends to be relatively subtle about a lot of things.
I personally love both Burn The Witch and Bleach, I’m a big fan of Kubo’s art style and his storytelling, there’s just something about his works, that not many mangakas share, even though it’s not perfect ( which makes it better honestly ). I love Bleach and Burn The Witch for what they are, the art, not perfect, yet so amazing. But talking about critics, I’m ok with smart and thoughtful critics, because you can’t be delusional that everything is perfect, however some people are just far too invested in trying to dig up even the smallest faults, which to me is just a dumb waste of your time.
Thoughts after watching video:
What the hell did I watch, but honestly it was funny to hear someone saying “Bleach is bad” for the sake of saying Bleach is bad 🥴
You just made my day 100 times better. It is so irritating to see this people talk about any series not just bleach without having any knowledge whatsoever . Like people judge bleach with a anime that isn't finished .
I finally got around to watching/reading Bleach last year so missed the decades of drama completely. I'm just glad it exists and is returning to air this year. I didn't care much for the last arc but I think I'll like it more watching it. The story is iconic.
Welcome to the family
Fornever is the definition of a person who just jumps on the bandwagon. He praised the fuck out of AOT in its final arc saying it would go down as “one of the greats” even made a video leading up to its ending where he argued in favor of the alliance and gave his predictions on how the story would end (which he got fairly close) but towards the last 2-3 chapters when everyone started shitting on the ending all the sudden he cashes in on that and makes tons of reaction videos where you can just tell he’s overselling himself to feel included, even though his predictions for the ending were pretty close. It’s like he’s afraid to form his own opinion in the event it goes against what most people think. I respect him for all the news content he does but he’s lost credibility when it comes to reviews.
Never forgiven him for his anti bleach videos...idc what hes doing now.
I"m fairly new to his channel for about a year now. But after this video I am disgusted by him. Why tf would you go out on your own way just to shit on a series you either watched or read to end.
@@Cheetowitcheese because he read the room and wanted to make sure he stayed on the good side of most of his subs. At least Tekking101, who reviewed bleach pretty extensively, has been pretty consistent with his takes on the story. He definitely criticized the ending but would never go as far as to slander the series as a whole or even shit on fans still hopeful for a return. Plus in the long gap where there was no official bleach content he would occasionally go back and do some bleach videos. Fornever? Nothing. But the moment the anime is announced he acts like he didn’t used to slander tf out of bleach and feed into that toxic side of the community
Well attack on Titan is actually shit so he’s right about hating it also it’s wasn’t just the last 2-3 chapters that was bad either ever since the “your not a god but your not a slave either “ line the manga took a nose dive . The ending wasn’t even the worst part it was the Armin power of friendship power up he got from all the previous Titan users and Ymir suddenly having this all planned and waiting for mikasa of all ppl LOOOL
@@vicsage8784 Fornever is fake as hell he's been exposed plenty of times for that i remember when DBS was popping he was hyping up everything even the trashiest episodes and when it ended he started complaining about the very thing he was hyping up. another example is when he trashed an episode of Boruto and when the fanbase turned on him for having an opinion he deleted that vid and apologized
As someone who likes Bleach, and first got into anime after watching it, I feel like I understand it. However, when I'm put on the spot on why it's good, I feel like a student who's forgotten everything they've learned during a quiz. Also, Ichigo being the the anime version of Spider-man is honestly the best way to put it, and is probably the reason I got into Spider-man in the first place.
I don’t defend the anime at all but the manga is top 5 for me period it’s so good
From what I can tell about New World Review is that he only notices points or characteristics that are spoon fed to him. By that I mean he only seems to recognize characters that are very vocal about their goals like Kenpachi or Ishida. Most characters in Bleach choose to act out their ambitions or goals and simply decide to keep their motives to themselves. This is something people do in real life. So Kubo gives us moments in their past and during their story where we can see where their motivation stems from and when they are put to task. At these points they act based on the culmination of all their experiences. We get to explore their internal conflict and how that influences their decisions. These are put at various points throughout the plot. So he simply doesn't know how to piece together these moments in time or can't figure out the motive behind the characters' actions, he can't put it all together because he's used to having everything spoon fed to him like with Naruto and One Piece (not that either of these series don't employ similar story telling techniques). Also "spoon fed" is the simplest expression I can use to communicate, not that I want to be rude.
Couldn't have said it any better.
One of the dumbest things I hear people complain about is filler.
Now this was a valid complaint in 2010 but if you haven’t learned to skip the filler you hate in 2021🤦🏾♂️
Exactly. There are literal lists online that write out how to skip all the filler. It was there when I first watched Bleach and 2014, so it’s def there in 2022.
I feel like I’m the minority when I say I liked some of the filler in bleach lol
@@dawnstartheanimeman Liked most of the filler arcs. Single episode fillers like Karakura Superheroes were obnoxious, but still better than sitting through a recap episode.
@@dawnstartheanimeman I enjoyed the filler arcs. Showing ichigo getting used to his bankai or the slow loss of his powers were great additions to the story imho. It didn't feel like my time was being wasted.
Yeah, it fucking rules when the only way you can enjoy a show is if you do a bunch of homework first about how to make it watchable.
If someone stops Bleach after the Aizen fight, fair enough. You might think it´s a logical narrative end for the story (even though many things were still unknown), or you just might not like it enough to continue into two more arcs. To me that´s fine. What you shouldn´t do though is draw conclusion about the series as a whole when you lack critical information that will affect what conclusions you can even draw in the first place.
Case in point: 21:50- Rukia getting "pushed to the side" is a conclusion you can only come to if you have not read TYBW
Yeah. Rukia was kind of a big deal in the end. Gaining Bankai to swap with a guy her esteemed brother couldn't handle, becoming a Captain in the end.... you know stuff that happens when you ain't shit lol.
The main people who argue for stopping at Aizen are anime only, and I only heard that argument when we didn’t think the TYBW was being animated
Let’s say I skipped everything between aizen right and tybw ( I read it ) how much am I really missing out on? I did research to figure out wtf the book was that they used to defeat ywhach and figure out fullbringers abilities etc.. I tried watching I just can’t.
A lot of people seem to have stop because of the "filler arks", cannon or not.
Shame really, i like them.
First thing about bleach i ever saw was the Blunt Ark over and over on tv.
Love the sanpakto ark! Has so much exposition in how they work and the personalities!
Even more once its all follow up as a big part of the Thousand years war!
@@alexkehler4 Bro the fullbringer arc is short as fuck you can read it in less than a day easily
Aizen faking his own death was such a crazy plot twist I don't understand how these people lose interest in knowing what's gonna happen after that, I'm pretty sure they didn't even pay attention to the plot
My thoughts on this I dont mind if someone made like a bad bleach video and then just stopped. As in didnt jump on the bandwagon when it came back like new world review. In fine with that. The only issue is people who shit on it then come back on and act like they hype for it. That's the part I dont like and deserve to get called out. Anime news network is one of the main problems. All is fair to me
Before the anime's final arc was announced to be animated it pissed me off how many people blindly hated on bleach because it didn't follow the likes of well known anime of its time. I'm happy UA-camrs like you call out this bs and expose how ignorant these people are of this series
I like how the most fascinating parts about Ichigo are his powers which are damn near broken. He was born overpowered but he still had suffer his way to unlocking all of it, every emotional, physical and mental step. He went from using his Zanpakuto as a tool to realizing that the blade is him and fighting alone, ackowledging both parts that killed his mother (the Hollow that corrupted her and the manifestation of Juha Bach) because he knows the truth of what really happened.
I’m stoked that all the Bleach haters will get to see just how much more story there was to tell with TYBW. If you’re anime only Bleach analyzing then you’re going to be in for a healthy dose of stfu, when that arc rolls out and you see how brutal it is and how there was so much more left to learn about this world and it’s characters and see all those great fights. I think we were all kinda bummed after Aizen was gone and Ichigo lost his powers but when he got them back and Yhwach busted on the scene, I was back in again. The Quincy were better antagonists in my opinion, only thing they didn’t have was Aizen, but Yhwach was a much more effective villain, he didn’t play around like Aizen. All the haters are a joke really.
How exactly were they better antagonists?
@@djmeagaaim17 How exactly are they not better antagonist?🤔
When Fornever Wrld started to hate on Bleach , I lost all interest in his content. I barely liked him as it was, but once he started going at the fandom for being stupid to hope that the anime would return, I lost all respect for him as a content creator. It’s funny because when the Bleach anime return was officially announced he had the balls to make an announcement video with the news for views obviously. Anime community is toxic as it is. It’s best to stay out of it. All that matters to me is that TYBW is going to be animated finally. A true fan knows that no matter what we get a W.
Yeah i never liked him and never subbed to him. Watched a couple of videos and now i know why i never liked the dude. Spot on.
formidder wrld ong
It is what it is. YT is just like the music industry.. full of corruption and favoritism. People like to insert their bias instead of chasing the truth. Then when the truth is right in front of us.. it ain’t even obvious because you never know who’s real and who is fake.
I mean for me it was the whole Double4Anime situation and how he resolved that. Or more precisely how badly he had resolved that. For a dude six year older? That was a major yikes.
it pisses me off that people shit on Bleach without knowing wtf they're talking about and still want to make fun of the fans for being mad
these are the kind of people who watch anime while doing something else, it's the only explanation to why they have such braindead takes
saying "Ichigo is a reactionary character" is just crazy to me
I know right?! Talk about internet irony poisoning.
imagine defending this anime for 10 years and people calling it trash just for those same people to want to watch it now because it coming back
I totally agree with you, Bleach was the very first anime I really watched back in school 2007, and I have always loved the series all this time, now it's coming back I can finally tell peeps I was right and Bleach is worth all the praise I gave it. I hate people who do this, say it's trash then go full circle when it comes out. To add insult to injury to not even FINISH the story? I mean c'mon the answer is already there.
@@rainofkhandaq6678 AoT is also a great example.
@@rainofkhandaq6678 One Piece is actually something I just started watching because as a Bleach fan who's heard all types of bashing on the show I feel like One Piece kind of gets that too. So I wanted to finally give it a chance since its the only show out of the big 3 I haven't seen
You do not get it. 90% of the bleach fandom moved on cause there was never any hope of a final season. The ones you call haters are the same ones who talked about bleach daily and got tired near the end
@@rainofkhandaq6678 no one trashed the show, what don’t you get. People got tired with the final arc and how it kept dragging.
BLEACH never gave them a reason to hate it, they are just creating their own little drama of pure nitpicking.
That being said; I don't love Bleach JUST because it's part of the big three, I love Bleach because of the focus of other good characters and how it takes its time for the story to flow, in the end.. It's not for everyone but for those who stay will enjoy it. Period.
And ayeeee 1:09:52 that's the video I sent!
Keep it up brother! ❤️
right
these people are just jealous cause bleach has the greatest arc ever
People just don't wamt their opinions to be wrong, even if they were just riding the opinion that is just popular
They probably felt sad or angry because it ended without understanding their emotions and why they felt them. So the project their negativity towards the thing they felt made them feel those negative emotions. Because it had to be Bleach and Kubo that was the reason, not themselves. People react irrationally when they are confused about something and we often seek out groups that agree with what we feel at the same time. But that is often really bad because when a group of confused, angry people start an echo chamber it can very quickly turn into trends of negative beliefs. People can´t accept the fact that Kubo got burnt out and needed to stop working to focus on his own health, so that is why both the anime and manga stopped so abruptly. They rather believe that it had to be because Bleach was so awful that it just had to be put to death, rather than understanding why it ended.
The character writing is much better in One Piece, that's what makes it so much better.
@@Mr-7ou6gn 💀
I've always felt that Bleach went over peoples' heads. Your video here showing how these people are outing themselves reminds me of the adage: It is better to remain silent and be perceived a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. These people should have kept their big mouths shut. Great video. I'm glad I came across it.
bleach has been and always will be a timeless story that is without a doubt incredible and holds much meaning for so many people. thank you thank you THANK YOU for this video so many things needed to be said esp now with the animes return. sick n tired of people saying bleach is bad just bc they have reading comprehension skills of a first grader
I think the fact that he became an English translator jn the end emphasises how he doesn’t need to be some hokage type character. He had no grandiose ambitions in the SS, he got dragged into this world. Kubo drilled this idea throughout Bleach.
The dynamic of SS and Ichigos home reminds me
of Peter Pan
As far back as the first volume, Ichigo's character profile says that the person he admires the most is William Shakespeare and not long after he was established to be a serious student. His becoming a translator is well within his established character.
ua-cam.com/video/ujtx9JXI24U/v-deo.html
The thing I hate most is one of the biggest complaints in the Anime community is that we can't stand "tropes". What is hated more than Isekai? Or people that hate ecchi tropes. But, you get a series that is finally different, that has a protag that doesn't follow the same mold and then you bitch that they don't follow the trope. Ugh, I hate people so much sometimes.
I love all of these creators individually (as does pretty much anyone who has watched their content tbh), but at least as far as Liam and the boys go their takes on bleach genuinely baffled me. With liam especially in his video praising JJK, he praises it for several similarities bleach happens to share with JJK considering it was the primary inspiration for it, and derides bleach for the same stuff.
it just shows the lack of awareness or integrity many anime fans have when it comes to evaluating a series they personally love compared to a series they have an inherent bias against. there are numerous fans, especially shonen or fans of the other two members of the big 3, who claim to recognize concrete flaws in bleach’s structure yet ignore the fact that these story aspects exist across almost all shounen series. the nature of long form shounen series is repetition, hence why one piece arcs often start with the group discovering a new island and inhabitants that ends up being controlled by a sort of authoritarian, villainous figure who luffy picks a fight with,leading to an ensuing conflict. what matters is the content of the arc itself and how it subverts or presents the audience with something new despite the barebones structure and set up around it being similar, hence why soul society and hueco mundo are inherently different at their core and why one piece has been able to carry on that same arc structure for so long, because of the variation and freshness of its content, not it’s surrounding context. you make a good a point with JJK, as that seems to be one of the new golden boys of anime, yet those who praise it fail to recognize that the praises they sing of the series have oddly enough been criticisms when it comes to a series that they have a bias towards, like bleach. for an actual example, bleach itself is hugely influenced by yu yu hakusho( a series i also love) yet a creator like eyepatch wolf(who i do enjoy) showers YYH with mountains of praise yet derides bleach and heavily misinterprets it despite bleach having many of the same elements, let alone the significant similarities between their plots and protagonists. it’s just wild the extent fans can go to be dismissive of other series. we all have done it at some point i’m sure, but it is important to me to acknowledge those personal shortcomings if you’re trying to evaluate discuss art or anime specifically, no matter if it’s between friends irl or on the internet
Except Young Defiant lmao.
@@Comicbroe405 wouldn't really call him a content creator. He doesn't really create anything, he just hates
Liam is a simple ass dude. He just wants to see some silly characters and action. Ichigo bores him because he isn't "le quirky xddd" enough like Luffy and OP's cast.
+ You can't say that the guy who says that the current one piece chapter is the "BEST AND MOST IMPORTANT ONE YET" every week for probably close to a year at this point is a man with complete integrity and no desire to farm attention any way necessary.
The other dudes are just... Not exactly reputable or respectable.
Purgon X and Young Defiant are literally just trolls though
@@Comicbroe405 Yeah that guy just hates everything and has a UA-cam God complex.
Yet another piss poor attempts at trying to prove that Bleach is "objectively" bad somehow disliking a series is one thing but disliking it or trying to prove it's bad based on piss poor interpretations,misconceptions,misjudgments,misunderstanding,and straight up lies is another thing which is genuinely such an abysmally awful thing to do and it's disingenuous.
This is my opinion with a higher caliber of vocabulary
@@iamyourdaddythereisnodenyi2669 your opinion?
@@saudbintalib5701 he is saying y'all share the same opinion but you articulated it better.
@@djouvensclermont5214 yeah exactly
@@iamyourdaddythereisnodenyi2669 you sure?
What I dislike the most about the Bleach hate bandwagon is how unoriginal it was. These hate videos all used the same exact criticisms made by Super Eyepatch Wolf in his videos about the Fall of Bleach, sometimes even in the exact same wordings. It's always the same old arguments: Ichigo is a passive MC who lacks a goal; there's a lack of background and world-building; Hueco Mundo is an empty desert; supporting characters getting sidelined; similar story beats between arcs, deux-ex-machina power-ups, etc. It was an echo chamber, basically. Everybody wanted to do the cool thing by hating on Bleach, and it had the added benefits of earning clicks from both those who agree and disagree. I even agree with some of those points, but to pretend most of those problems are exclusive to Bleach is nonsensical. I find it quite pathetic how they started back-tracking as soon as the general opinion on Bleach shifted toward the positives with the anime returning.
The fact that Ichigo doesn’t have a “dream” in other words a goal like being hokage or pirate king or even revenge makes him more relatable. At the end of the day Ichigo is just a person who wants to live his life while having the strength to protect those close to him. I ❤️ Ichigo.
It's almost as if there is more than one way to write a protagonist, not all of them need to be 12 year olds wanting to be the strongest guy around.
I think one of my favorite protagonist types are characters who aren't aiming for something grand, but still grow in order to preserve the things they have or have gained. Ichigo from Bleach and Tsuna from Hitman Reborn are two of my favorite protagonists of all time for this very reason. People shit on their character just because they don't have any bigger goal like other shounen protagonist. But they infact do. They just want to protect people. And they have to constantly grow not only in strength but as a person, understanding themselves and facing themselves is what leads to further growth in their strength, that's what makes them relatable but it's sad that people nitpick that part the most.
@@mysteryman9488 and that’s exactly it! There *IS* more than one way to write a protagonist. Ichigo had no clear ambitions or goals but that wasn’t a bad thing at all! He was a great character despite being reactionary. Just because a character is reactionary does not make for a terrible character! The perfect thing about bleach and it’s characters were that the characters WERE NOT PERFECT! They were like real world teenagers.
@@mysteryman9488 And in Ichigo’s case it makes sense because he lives in the real world. Not everybody wants to be president or a commander etc
@@Red.Decimo Yeah unfortunately we have been condition (especially because of Shonen) to want a protagonist who is larger than life, and that’s doesn’t have to be the case. There is a beauty in simplicity.
Every time Trash Taste boys shit on Bleach I get the feeling they are poking fun. But when they actually get into criticisms, a lot of their arguments always feel so flat or lackluster. It's insane... Like they never really go in-depth with the story as opposed to some of its contemporaries like Naruto. They just want to have the plot and lore spoon-fed. But that's not Bleach's style, that's not Kubo's style. They want what they're used to, and are unwilling to invest or explore. There is no patience with Bleach, and they never read between the lines.
Exactly this. I love Trash Taste, but when it comes to the big 3 they have VERY lackluster opinions.
@@MyPetLynx I believe Connor hasn't read Bleach at all... For me, it's especially Garnt that rubs me the wrong way.
@@Tsuma_Vento agreed, garnt and joey
Well connor seems to problems understanding background themes and main themes in a story so yeah I'm not surprise they have in depth criticisms. It's also weird how they start dick riding each other even though they were just arguing opposite points
I mean you know they are called Trash taste for a reason.
Trash Taste sounded like they were being sarcastic when they said they were excited, which is why they added that they didnt care about the arc or theyve shit on it before right after.
I actually completely understand why they're hyped, even if they don't really care about Bleach. It's just really cool seeing the anime finally come out of hiatus. I had the same reaction when HxH came back last year.
@@samt3412Wait? HxH is returning? The manga or the anime? I haven’t read the manga at all or watched the anime because I heard it was on hiatus. Been thinking about reading the manga recently. Is it worth reading even if it will remain unfinished?
@@darthmalgus232 manga came back for a few chapters a few months ago. Now it's back on hiatus.
"The big 3" phenomenon has created false expectation on what each series was trying to achieve by comparing them in elements that the authors didn't intend to have nor focus on in the first place, so instead of criticizing the series for what it does and how well does it do it, you get lukewarm shit like " I want it to do this thing that I like form the other series and if it doesn't do it it's bad" and the chapter reviews community was filled with these garbage takes and more.
I feel like Bleach would've been better received if it came out during this era, which is in my opinion, the most rich era for shounen action series has ever been, instead of the toxic big 3 era.
Oh my god. THIS. You’re totally on the money right here.
Coming from someone who lived through all of that era and even before. Those times were NOTHING to be proud of when it came to discussing or enjoying differences between one series and another (those three in particular) it was a fucking BLOODBATH just naming one series over the other you’d have to be a fucking hooligan to get your voice even heard.
Another reason is simply that this demography is doomed to forever be targeted at teens or post-teens at best. So you’ll always see normies talking out loud about topics like productions and such which they have ZERO knowledge about. They picked their info on a FB or Twitter comment or someone on UA-cam speculating about issues they got no information whatsoever to sustain such claims.
THAT right there is what caused Bleach such harm in the last 5 or 6 years.
Bro this Era wouldn't exist if it weren't for bleach jjk or kimetsu both have huge bleach vibe.
Its even more ridiculous since Oda, Kubo and Kishimoto are all acquainted with each other and described their "rivalry" as friendly since at the end of the day, they were all co-workers on the same company.
Bleach is part of the reason as to why some of these shounen hits are out today so if it were to come out these days, I doubt that it would be as well recieved tbh
my friend has never been exposed to bleach all his life so I've been able to get him in to it in the past couple of months, and he has shown nothing but love in his time watching it. He's never seen nor a video bashing Bleach or praising it prior to him watching it. This was an honest raw reaction from someone who's been exposed to modern animation and storytelling, so I thought at first that it might turn him off but actually no. Yes there were times where we made fun of some wacky dialogue and very poor animation, but that was about it.
Yeah
you are a great friend !!
7:45 agree with you, would like to mention additionally - after soul society arc I was only thrown off by the fillers because I had not yet read the manga and did not realize a filler had begun (with bounts).
Tbh I I don't see how having the "aiming for the top" type of protagonist goals is a plus for a series. And that is what makes characters like Ichigo feel more realistic. Not everyone has to graduate as valedictorians or become NBA champions. People just want to live their lives and deal with whatever sh*t has thrown at them.
Yo kaiji pfp epic
@@streetgamer3452 i cant stop laughing, he changed his profile pic to fucking waluigi i cant
I want to be honest about my case, I actually thought after everything happen with Hueco Mundo and Aizen I thought it was fine to end it. I admit I was super wrong when I saw Bleach 20th Anniversary project one-shot and that the anime will be returning. I went ahead and I binge read the series again all over and past where I dropped it at, which was the beginning of Fullbringer Arc. I enjoyed a lot, and I found out a lot new explore a lot of subjects that I never realized of when I was a kid reading it. Rereading as the series now as an adult I was able to analyze what Kubo give in with his art, and noticed a lot of important world-building that he put in. I am not the type of person who is willingly read hundred of chapters; I never read one piece, dropped naruto shippuden, and is rarely willing to put the effort into reading something that has over 300 hundred chapters beside like haikyuu, Iruma-kun, and now Bleach. Kubo is a great writer, and an amazing artist. I never thought Bleach was trash, but it did got stale since I wasn't feeling it during the Fullbringer arc; though I was wrong since it wasn't much about the fighting action, but it explored Ichigo as a character as whole, fullbringer power, and how Ichigo got his power back. While it is not the most exciting arc, but it was a necessary arc for me. I feel like a lot of Bleach flaws is mostly due Kubo health issue, and just not enough time. Imagine pumping these chapter out in a week, thank you Kubo
When you get a chance you should read Berserk
I like how u decided to pick bleach back up. I would also recommend you to read one piece and Naruto shippuden too theya re good on their own and are enjoyable
@@MayankGupta-th3wt One Piece is a must read but recommending Naruto Shippuden and not the prequel isn’t gonna do it. Always start Naruto from the very beginning.
YES THANK YOU the Fullbring arc gets so much smack because so many fail to see how vital the character growth aspect of it actually is!
@@tamashiranai1091 Or because it was boring compared to what came before it still a good arc though
FINALLY this is the video I wanted to see... exposing these fake Bleach fans.
The thing is they are going to hype everything up and trash talk the show once it's airing.
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You actually didn't have to include Young Defiant lmao.. That man's whole schtick is to hate in anything & everything.
I found that hilarious
His channel is just a waste if space
True. That guy is attention seeker.
I’m actually glad he added him, cause when I took a good hard look at his channel, he’s definitely a disgrace of a UA-camr and he doesn’t deserve to be one. How can anyone stomach him when he’s literally hating every single one of the shonen anime shows? He hates for the sake of hating and has done to no research whatsoever. That’s why I can’t stand people like him.
My man, you are Zero division status with your indeph, attention to details videos, particularly the Bleach ones. I'm proud to have you as an embassador of the Bleach community. Bleach has been close to my heart since I started it in 2005 and I have endured this hate for 2 decades, more so in the later half and it has been tough.. since most people follow the crowd when it comes to forming their opinion, but I've endured it all. Needless to say, this video is a love letter to those of us who remained stoic through the tempest.
No, I am gatekeeping. I started reading the manga during the arrancar arc, all the way through to the end of the series. I continued enjoying the franchise when there was nothing new for years. Reading the TYBW several times, watching the anime every year, explaining why I loved the series when it was more popular to hate. When I finally had steady income I finally bought the full manga physically, got all the supplementary material I could find. I advocated for the anime return every chance I could. I never lost my love for bleach.
I am all for new fans finding the franchise but I will never accept the people that spent years bashing bleach acting like they have loved it all along now that it is popular again. I won't accept the opinions of people who don't understand the themes and message of bleach, setting aside if they understand writing literally at all.
I will not welcome the people with awful takes and no understanding of the characters. I won't welcome the people with awful opinions about the art and just ignore everything Kubo has ever explained about his process and why things are formatted the way they are.
I am gatekeeping, everyone who spent years hating bleach can piss off and keep out of the fanbase. New fans I welcome with open arms. Returning fans that just went on with life can get right in line with us. But I will absolutely not respect or welcome anyone who put bleach down coming back and acting like they have loved it all along.
To say bleach characters are weakly written is probably the most ignorant thing i've ever heard.
He didn't develop any of them.
@@Mr-7ou6gn ?
@@Mr-7ou6gn if you said some characters didn't get developed i get you like chad most of the vizards some espadas. But NONE! Is suprising no work has ever flushed out all characters.
@@thesamurai3507 Only a few of the main characters when Ichigo was still a hollow hunter.
@@Mr-7ou6gn “hollow hunter” yeah u were definitely watching the series with ur eyes closed 💀
One of the things that drew me towards Ichigo as a protagonist is his similarities to Peter Parker. In my eyes Ichigo is probably the closest thing we have to an anime Spider-Man, even with characters like Deku who is a literal Superhero. So I appreciate the comparison in this video
Lol same.
Also if you think about it Ichigo is more compatible with the young of now than before.
With Dragon ball came the wave of "i want to be the best" protags, naruto, luffy, natsu?, Kon, deku, ash/satoshi, etc.
Reach the dream, frienship.
But now what young people feel?
Doubt, insecurity, loss, confusion, depresion, all this because they where told the previous generation perslective, but thing changed.
So what they WANT now?
Stability, oportunity, confort, happines, a MODEST LIFE.
And having the strength to at least PROTECT that.
A house, a family, friends, a stable work, free time, a hobby.
That is why i think Ichigo is a protag of NOW.
This is THE TIME for BLEACH!
I completely agree. All I have to say is that I'm surprised that there aren't more people who realize that both characters are really similar.
Ichigo is like peter?, the idea of peter parker is that he is just a normal guy who got a sudden power and with it came a great responsibility while ichigo was born from a soul reaper father and a Quincy mother and was able to see ghosts ever since he was a kid.
@@Judge_eyes6_6 way to be intentionally misinterprete the beginning of Bleach, being a facetious bastard, you get the idea.
I can see the comparison somewhat but Peter deals alot more with the consequences of being spider-man than Ichigo has to with being a soul reaper. The one thing I don't like about the discourse surrounding Ichigo is that people bring up that he lives in the modern world; that might have somewhat been true during the first arc but in the overall story Bleach is far from taking place in the modern world. Aside from the superpowered beings, Peter has to deal with more modern/ realistic situations like paying rent, upholding relationships, focusing on his career while also taking up the responsibility to be a hero. The struggles Ichigo faces stem in the supernatural like the death of his mother and his relationship with zangestu. Peter feels he needs to protect his loved ones because of the death of Uncle ben and how he lacked the responsibility to act on preventing it; Ichigo on the other hand does so because he just feels guilty for his mother's death but whereas peter is partly to blame for ben's death Ichigo isn't for his mother's death and only puts blame on himself based of survivor's guilt. ichigo does have a sense of great power comes great responsibility but what main hero doesn't have that? Peter's is different because the in that moment he was somewhat responsible.
Ngl the peter parker conparison made me wish we got to see more of ichigo balancing his high school life with his shinigami life.
Forneverworld is a good example of the animosity that exists between the big 3 fandoms. Remember that Naruto official manga ended in 2014, and people used to rage about Bleach going while Naruto ended. Bleach ended two years later and they started to bash the series like never before.
There's a lot to be said but all in all it's a sad case of shitting on series you have no understanding of.
He is the og bleach reviewer 😂 how doesn’t he have a understanding of it
@@Ronronro he talks about series that brig him views, if they dont he wont talk about them. doesnt meant much else.
@@Anhiksi he literally made a video telling people not to forget about bleach
@@Ronronro to get more views you do know he shit talks the series
These people have ascended to a higher plane of ignorance, Greed and Hypocrisy.
"It may sound like I'm gatekeeping."
Yes you are and we need more of that. The hypocrisy needs to be called out especially from people who spent the last few decade shitting on Bleach and its fans trying to walk back in and pretend that none of that happened.
but what if these people geniuely changed their opinions ? they’re a bunch of series i used to shit on then i actually got to like them the more i got into it
There was never anything wrong with gatekeeping. Without it, you end up with rushed and diluted products meant for the lowest common denominator.
@@rainofkhandaq6678 it wouldn't be a community without a gate. Just like how there isnt a country without a border. its the same argument.
It's like how Prequel haters want to suddenly pretend how oh they were always on George Lucas's side and that Disney "Betrayed" him when in actuality the whole reason he sold the series was because the "fans" were treating him like dogshit. I don't feel an ounce of pity for people who are upset about the sequels because they did it to themselves. Over and over I had to watch people not just bash the prequels but harass the actual people behind them to the point where Amhad Bhest actually considered suicide. And it's the same thing with the sequel triliogy too, in my opinion Kathleen kenedy should never have folded to the fans bitching after the Last Jedi but stuck to what was being done in that movie to introduce new elements into the story. I really enjoy Rise of Skywalker but there is a very clear sense of trying to please people who did'nt enjoy the Last Jedi.
I know that this is a very minor point, but that guy at the end claiming that Vasto Lorde Ichigo is an asspull is just flat out wrong. When Ichigo defeats his inner hollow, his hollow outright says that Ichigo better not die, or else he will take control over his body again.
And if he means his inner hollow in general is an asspull that's also wrong. When Ichigo regains his shinigami powers, he has a hollow mask. And throughout the soul society arc there are multiple times that the hollow mask mysteriously reappears to save him from attacks that would otherwise kill him. Which culminates in his hollow outright taking over his body against Byakuya.
Those are what we in the writing business call, foreshadowing. Almost as if Bleach has good writing.
The passion with which DBZimran talks about Bleach is so heartwarming and inspiring. Love your videos man keep up the great work and know that you have my eternal respect!
It actually really refreshing to see a person actually conveying his own opinions and not others
because he always talks with the premise that bleach is good, has good and interesting characters..
@@Queen-be6md because this is true. Bleach is a good show and it has great characters. It's not a premise, it's a fact.
@@lanariy6362 i fail to see how bleach is a great series and has interesting characters, the whole thing seems to run in a direction in which all events done by side characters are completely useless and the main character has to magically solve things. you may as well remove many characters and it wouldnt change anything.
@@Queen-be6md then why the hell are you even wasting your time on a video about the show you don't like?
I genuinely love how NWR's most hated part of bleach is Aizen stopping ichigo with a single finger. That is, second to none, my favorite scene in the first arc. After all the powering up he does, and fighting off Byakuya so well, to be stopped with a single finger showed just how far the power scaled in the universe.
"With great power comes great responsibility"
Ichigo Kurosaki
That would be the most badass and cringe line that I would absolutely fanboy over
😂😂😂😂 lol
Bleachtards wish Bleach was as good as Spiderman.
@@Mr-7ou6gn they’re both good stories in there own right
@@scythe7045 How is Bleach a good story if he repeats the exact same arc multiple times? It sounds to me more like an awful story, where the author even admitted that the only point of his manga is "cool fights".
Nah, we don't need to hone in that Ichigo is has an overarching goal within the series.
Since having an specific goal is not the must need key to be a good story lol.
Like as much as they say LOOK AT OP, NARUTO, DEATH NOTE, etc.
There are also good stories that are as well recieved that don't have such thing like, Yuyu Hakusho, Tokyo Ghoul, Chainsawman, BERSERK and etc. Shit just happens and the MC still actively does something within the story. Heck even HxH ended up like this one since Gon achieved his dream but the story still goes on.
And look, they are series that tends to a more darker tone like Bleach.
Being mixed race, I found how ichigo being a hybrid of quicny, Hollow, shinigami etc very relatable. as Icnigo tried to come to peace with each part of humself I also had to understand different parts of myself and the amalgamation of culture. I am not hating on the others but he was, at least to me the most relatable protagonist in the big 3. I would also like to add that a character doesn't need to be relatable to be well crafted. Thinking that characters most be relatable to be considered great seems to come from a place of pure narcissism. Throughout literature you will find a plethora of great characters, and it should be noted that relatablity is not what makes Hamlet great. You will hardly meet anyone who could contend with the wrath of Achillies or the Honor of Hector, but that doesn't disqualify them as poorly developed.
I said it before, and Ill say it again. First it was Clyde who really understood Bleach , and then like a ray of light you DBZ came down with the Ruined reputation of Bleach Video after I saw Supereyepatch wolfs video on The Fall of bleach. I remember having so many debates on that video, primarily arguing why Ichigo wasnt a bad protagonist and that the end of Aizen WAS NOT where Bleach shouldve ended.
I had my own issues with Bleach back in the day but that was because of anime stuff like Filler arcs that hurt the pacing especially in the Arrancar arc but I still loved it and the characters. I stand by that Ichigo is one of the greatest shonen protagonists and one of the more unique ones and that Bleach will always be one of the big 3.
Damn right FK fillers
Yeah. He's not your typical happy idiot that loves food, fighting, and/or being a perv. He's smart, cool under pressure, has a quick wit, and most importantly he's relatable.
@@Zac_Frost that woudnt work well with most shonen viewers. Most people read manga and anime to escape relateability and real world stuff not be reminded of it. Ichigo is inconsistent, i dont mind characters with inner conflicts. In hueco mundo that was done great with white however the fullbring arc made him so weak and unperceptive which wasnt the case when he stormed soul society and beat kenpachi and byakuya or when he conquered his fears to beat aizen. For many, Aizen is bleach strong point not ichigo. Instead of progressing to a stronger character mentally, he went backwards as a character to doubt his dad and kisuke for a stranger. In the tybw arc he was done ok but even then rukia and the other captains overshadowed him.
@@Loveea69 Then why did Bleach sell so well?
@@Zac_Frost good cast of surrounding characters like byakuya, kenpachi, yamamoto etc. Aizen brilliance as a mastermind(sales fell when he was removed from the story hence his brought back), variety of themes and good fight scenes with tense action. Ichigo is a good protagonist but was inconsistent as a character, he was written really well in the soul society-arrancar arc but was mishandled in the fullbring arc, he alone cant carry bleach to the big 3.
NewWorldReview's biggest problems seems to be that he's unable to characters inner conflicts or goals, but is fixated on outer material goal. Rukia's character is focused on her relationship with her brother, his former teacher Kaien Shiba and Renji. As the story progressed she managed to solve these problematic relationships, find inner peace which was shown externally by her gaining bankai. This is in fact far more relatable goal for a character than external "I WaNt To Be PiRaTe HoGaIgE!!"
It's funny how when everyone compares a Bleach character to another Shonen series, it's fucking ALWAYS One Piece and Naruto
Yet they NEVER talk about what say, Son Gokū's goal is, or what any of the Joestar family's goals are
It's probably because he reviews one piece where the outer conflict is what he is more focused on.
@@bleachfade1520 newworldreview also had a bad take on jojo part 5. Yeah newworldreview is just a one piece fans who compares everything to one piece
@@RiderNexus Have you read or even seen Jojo? Also Goku's goals are pretty well known, he just wants to fight people stronger then him.
@@Niko-pt9li Yes, I have
Call the haters and hypocrisy out brother, we love to see it
People did this with boruto to💀 it gets me everytime
The hate on Boruto was not so much for Boruto. Boruto's hate is kinda unfair, cause what people ACTUALLY hate is how badly written the last arc was and how the series ended. But since they can't hate much on it, cause of nostalgia and feelings, they hate on the new thing, as if "Boruto is the reason it's bad", when, overall, Boruto is a decent manga, flawed from the beginning for being the continuation of an already very flawed story
Boruto is actually trash though
@@vcamv2354 Hmm, in my opinion right now, I don't feel hype for the manga as much as i used to. Boruto haters trash the anime for so called "fillers" which are supposed to be anime canon while praise the manga. I mean bro, side characters in Boruto Manga are forgotten. Sarada and Mitsuki haven't appeared in the manga for like what 4 or 5 months? They only focus on Boruto and Kawaki. The anime made the side characters have development and screentine.
@@miember676 side characters in Naruto overall are forgotten and only the fillers help it. And while I do agree the anime has some quality, the same principle applies. Both are a product of a doomed series
@@vcamv2354 That had more to do with the anime and not the manga.
I don't understand the problem with so-called "passive characters"? Why does every main character need to be motivated by external goals? It's just a Shonen trope.
I agree. I think it is refreshing to see characters with simple goals like protecting family and friends rather than being the very best.
Yeah and it baffles me to why itadori in jjk gets praised for being a “passive” character when he is similar to ichigo.
Say what you want about Shonen protagonists and their goals, but at least they were proactive. Ichigo just waits for things to happen. That's why he feels like a side character to his own story. But what do I expect from Bleach fans they're just dumbasses who like bankais, ass pulls, shallow characters and an uninteresting protagonist.
@@Loyiso444 lol
@@Loyiso444 Everything you listed except bankai is something anyone could say about any shonen.
What I find sad and ironic is the fact that the only reason I know who Forneverworld is is because I watched his Bleach chapter reviews for YEARS every week after I would read the chapter. Seeing him turn into a bandwagon bleach hater a year or so after the series ended while he was pivoting to other trendy anime was incredibly disappointing and kinda depressing.
I started Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece at the same time and love all three. But it is Bleach and always Bleach that I love most because it is most relatable and most importantly matures the best with time. I was Ichigo age when I started and now have a kid of my own. I get WAY more stuff in Bleach as I've grown older and I kid you not, every arc gets better and more relatable in every stage of my life. No other shonen has given that to me. Not Naruto, not MHA, not Dragonball. But Bleach is poorly written don't forget that...
Two things my good sir.
1: I love your content so much.
2: The point that he doesnt have anywhere to go (power wise) after the Aizen finger or implying that its Ichigo then Aizen. Ignoring everyone Ichigo would lose to at the time. Especially leading up to the fight between him and Byakuya. I'm SURE that if he fought a Captain that wasnt literally holding himself back, the story would've been different. Im pointing this out only to say that he did have a ways to go. And it's more apparent when we see the other characters powers are revealed and explored. We see what he becomes, hell what everyone becomes.
Sidenote: I would love to see Aizen put that figure up to the head captian-commander (I would pay money for a what if episode.)
People always excuse Goku for just wanting to be stronger, but when that's Ichigo's goal people find an issue with it.
Because protecting his friends is apparently boring
I thought Fornever was a fan now? Supereyepatch wolf was the biggest hater that comes to mind, you already addressed this.
You aren’t a gatekeeper, you’re in my top 10 or even 5 of Animetubers. Tommo (I forget his full mantle) is another awesome youtuber that is passionate
Ngl and I don’t want to cause a argument here but Tommo jump the bandwagon as well. He started making bleach vids again when the popularity went up due to a bleach return 2 years ago
@@IcedTeaGurren he’s been making bleach videos for 9 years now how tf is he a bandwagon fan
@@bbpoisonn he stopped making them for awhile intill bleach got confirmed to be coming back like I said I don’t want to cause a argument just my two cents that’s all
@@IcedTeaGurren probably cause he's hyped about the return
@@jskw7167 maybe it’s one of them he’s better than the haters jumping the bandwagon that’s for sure
Thank you man I'm all for them changing their mind but they need to be called out and own up to their mistake so we can all just be friends at the end of the day
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Amen thank you for defending the series and calling these people out. U are doing right by us bleach fans.
I've always liked bleach. your videos are on point and I'm watching the anime again because of you my guy.
As DBZ started his commentary on Ichigo's 'passive character' situation, I paused the video and was thinking to myself, 'What about the characters of the MCU, the currently most popular Western entertainment empire? How many of those characters have 'grand dreams' like Luffy and Naruto? Did Tony Stark begin the whole MCU experience by deciding to become, I don't know, something like 'The World's Greatest Superhero'?' And then I unpaused the video and DBZ started comparing Ichigo to Peter Parker, and I thought, 'Welp, yep, that's an even better comparison'.
Everyone who makes that argument always associates Bleach with Naruto and One Piece since they were the 'Big 3' of the 00s and therefore since Bleach was different than those two it was a failure. It's a very odd sentiment, because the whole 'kid with a mega dream' is not actually that common of a character trait. It's actually a lot more of a rarity, and 'passive/reactive' characters like Ichigo are much more common and are lauded and loved, especially here in the west. Starlord, Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, and many others from the MCU and even DC superheroes like Batman and Superman tend to be more 'reactive', some event in their past or the circumstances around them push them to become what they are, and they fulfill that role because of their inherit character traits. Peter Quill was just a boy kidnapped and raised by space pirates who was living day to day and looking to break off. Stark was a man who already HAD everything, until a moment of tragedy showed him a world that was a result of the consequences of his irresponsible actions and decided to start doing something about it. Steve Rogers just wanted to fight in the war with his buddies because he thought the Axis party were a bunch of bullies who needed to be stopped. Spider-Man DBZ covered. Batman's big overarching goal is generally a vague 'fight crime' because he doesn't want tragedies like what happened to his parents repeated, and Superman, like Spider-Man and Ichigo, has powers and feels he has a duty to use those powers to help people.
Beyond superheroes, other beloved protagonists are similarly driven by the plot to shape the world around them, like Luke Skywalker. Sure, Luke had 'grandiose' dreams of leaving the moisture farm on Tattooine and do bigger things, but they were vague, and not what led him to finally leaving; it was the appearance of the Droids, beating Obi-Wan, and finally having his home destroyed and aunt and uncle killed that drove him to become a hero. Even many other SJ protagonists fall under this category but are never derided for it; while 'collect the Dragonballs' seemed to be the main purpose of the Dragonball manga, that was never really the goal of Goku himself, and that plot point was largely decided early and Goku's journey became a very reactive path of meeting threats and enemies and fighting them, and meeting strong people and working to become stronger than them. Yusuke Urameshi was a punk kid who was completely lost until one split-second decision ended his life and changed his world forever. Kenshin Homura simply wanted to live a peaceful life free of his dark past. Ditto for Train Heartnet.
While there certainly are other characters who could be defined as largely being 'active' and 'goal-driven' in their plot line in SJ manga, like Gon and Deku, it is by no means the dominant characteristic of SJ protagonists, let alone good protagonists in general. Why is that? Because it's traditional for antagonists to drive the plot. Even in manga like Naruto and One Piece where they move from event to event in pursuit of their goals, they inevitably find themselves being led or pushed into a new plot by the actions of the villain of the arc. Just being an active hero doesn't prevent or change that. It's the way basic story structure works, and that's fine. Trying to judge an anime/manga protagonist by whether or not they have a 'clearly-defined, overarching goal' is like having a class of students state their goals for the future and then telling everyone who didn't answer 'become Presidient of the US' or 'become World Champion' that they're a failure.
I followed all 3 of the Big 3 in varying degrees throughout the 00s and early-10s, until Bleach and then Naruto finally ended, but Bleach was always my favorite of the 3, and Ichigo by far is my favorite protagonist of the 3 as well. His 'desire to protect' instilled in him by his father's lectures on his name and the death of his mother is just as riveting, powerful and endearing as Naruto's quest to become Hokage and gain respect and acknowledgement or Luffy's quest to become King of the Pirates and find the 'One Piece' of Gol D. Roger, if not more so. Everyone who watches or reads Bleach with an intelligent and open mind understands the significance of his character and can only agree when he is, at the end of the Fullbringer Arc, acknowledged as the man who 'changed the Soul Society' and its millennia of tradition.
The man who changed the Soul Society. Not a bad feat for a passive character than can only react to the stimuli that the plot introduces to him.
You sir have earned my respect! What an excellent contribution, really enjoyed reading this.
even goku is to an extent realtively passive compared to naruto or luffy since his goal is to becomer stronger and better than he was yesterday
A passive protagonist is not inherently bad it’s just harder to get right. Because you have to move the world around them instead of just having to move them. This requires that they have other traits. And sometimes when I read bleach past a certain point it feels like Kubo struggles to write ichigo and the gang into their own story like how chad basically had nothing in the fulbringer arc .
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Calm down sir it's an anime 😭😭😭😭😭😭
That point of goals of characters is really on point , some can be huge goals and some can be simple. I mean Goku is huge but has overall just wanted to fight strong people. Not only till recently did his goals change in the Moro Arc .
The craziest thing about this is that the people including myself that kept good faith in bleach this whole time had to argue and defend bleach😂. Now it’s coming back people groin riding hard😂
The thing about New Workd Reviews critiques about bleach, can fit EXACTLY onto his favorite series…HxH.
What are gons goals?
Lol, it’s such a ridiculously vapid critique
To find his dad
Gon's goal isnt a huge as luffy or naruto. Also even compared to new shonen mcs, it's even less. Izuku wants to be a hero, tanjiro wants to save his sister and make her human, senku wants to save humanity and yujii wants to help guide people to a proper death and exercise sakuna and other curses.
Ichigo's goal isnt as extravagant but it's still a valid one which comes from the trauma he faced losing his mom. With Gon he never had a relationship with his dad but us as the viewers chear him on.
People need to stop hating on ichigo for having a less extravagant goal. It's still nobel.
I started bleach last week, finished it 2 days ago. I didn’t watch it just because of the bandwagon hype train, it’s just that when animes are on hiatus it just drives me from watching them. But it was always considered a decent anime for me from the clips i would watch. The problem I have is that the people who genuinely announced the fall of bleach and hated it now fall to the bandwagon hype train and acting like they true fans.
And it went for years, it started when the anime ended back in 2012 and even kept going after the manga ended. ForneverWorld's entire channel was built upon hating Bleach on a weekly basis.
You are not a real Bleach fan if you are not capable of drinking it!
I think that line of thinking is what lead to these morons, too much bleach in-between the ears and you will be talking madness
Of course, every day with every meal
I’m so glad you did this video. Because I’m really getting fed up with the haters out there that still want to trash Bleach for no apparent reason and recommending people not to watch the series, that to me is a automatic L. And not to mention people want to play follow the leader and not bother thinking of their own opinions about Bleach wether they should watch it or not. Each and every one of these videos including ForneverWorld that you exposed have literally lost credibility with me, cause they definitely don’t understand Bleach up at that level. I was able to figure the whole series out by watching the anime and reading the manga, completely understanding everyone of the characters and appreciating what Kubo has done by telling a great story. I’m proud to have own the complete series and I’m definitely hyped for the anime adaptation for the TYBW arc. I never once believed that Bleach was dead. I’m glad it came into my life and started to become a fanfic writer for Bleach cause I love the characters. Anyways, thanks for exposing and debunking the haters for Bleach, it really made my day. Love what you do and I’m glad I subbed to someone who completely understands this franchise more than anyone.
As someone who watched bleach, and read tybw and enjoyed the series, I wanted to ask if you read the complete manga, and if so, which one did you enjoy more between the anime and manga?
@@hna98 Good question. It’s a combination of both since I’m both manga reader and anime watcher. I have reread the TYBW arc and then reread from the Substitute Shinigami arc to the Fullbringer arc.
I never thought I would actually want to watch this whole thing. Yet I did, and am back a month or so later to do so again. So much more entertaining than I would have thought, but that’s mostly the Bleach lover in me.
I think many assumed that Aizen was going to say “human and Soul Reaper”, but that was intentionally a red herring. But I guess it wouldn’t make sense narratively why his dad would try to interrupt him if that were the case.
@@maciekwucow3989 humans?
Yhwach must be some weird human then considering how he got such powerful abilities without being a soul reaper and a human
Thank you so much for making this video. We need a ''block'' button for every UA-cam channel. I'm sick and tried of seeing these trash UA-camrs spreading misinformation.
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I came here from dude in a room. You really challenged my view of Bleach. I finished the anime but now I feel like should read the manga. Thanks.
I was literally typing out how he was like Spider-Man then you said it lol good shit bro great video
I think the reason why bleach was always picked on for so many years is because its not made so simple and dumb down like naruto and one piece fans always like whats easy and simple but when bleach breaks the formula at their used too its suddenly becomes bad apparently which sucks because doing things differently is why i love shows like bleach claymore YYH hunter x hunter hitman reborn and D gray man
There spoonfed shonen brain can't phathom subtleness.
@@Snzn_7 thats the key word right there spoonfed
Exactly
This is also what i think the amount of people i've seen not understanding so many parts of bleach is insane some still think ichigo's hollofication against ulquiorra came out of nowhere
Facts
I started watching Bleach back in 2013, about a year after the official anime has ended. At the time I was still in my first year of high school. I watched the entire anime including the fillers and read the remainder of the series (i.e. the TYWB arc) in the manga. Ever since then the series has always kept a special place in my heart. Ichigo was felt very relatable to me and the story, characters, and lore captivated me from start to finish. I can never see eye to eye with people who hate on it and honestly it's their loss. Bleach is an amazing story every step of the way and I am thrilled after seeing the trailer for the new anime being released. After so many years of waiting and constant disappointment, we finally get the return of the anime that we have wished for. All the haters that said "Bleach is dead" can suck it!!!
I dropped Bleach in 2011, then picked it back up in 2013. I ended up reading all of the chapters and watching all of the episodes.
Years later, your video BLEACH: Ruined Reputation helped me put into words what I couldn't quite put my finger on: the reasons why I love Bleach and ultimately why I picked it back up.
This video right here is another excellent one. Subscribed.