You are right about Holdener. He is helpful overall with all the dyno test information, etc, but also a bullheaded know-it-all at times. And generally will not admit to being wrong, even when confronted with clear evidence. I like the logical way you think, and appreciate the information you are providing. I have several of these Cadillac engines, but haven't gotten around to actually building one as of yet, so this is all very interesting to me. I noticed right away that the Cadillac intake ports are too low and pointed downward, and it seemed to me that they would never produce any BBC type performance because of that issue. I wondered if it would be worth my time to mill out the top of the ports, and braze a cap back across the hole that the milling would create in the area beneath the valve cover. I'd have to fabricate an intake manifold to fit the new port location of course, but that's not too much more trouble. Have you heard of anyone else who has gone this route? Otherwise, if you have to buy the high-dollar aftermarket aluminum heads, etc, your choices are very limited, and it seems that there is no advantage to building a Cadillac at all, if it isn't cheaper than just building a BBF or BBC Stroker, as those options are proven and very affordable at this point. About the SPs; I assume you are aware that the HT (high torque) 4100 Cadillac engine was also a single plane design? Apparently that concept was in fashion among their engineers during that period. Edelbrock's Street Torquer was also a small runner single plane. I ran one on a 421 small block, and it seemed to perform amazingly well, although I never actually compared it to different intake on that particular engine.
Single plane designs make more sense for a fuel injected engine like the HT because they aren't reliant on creating vacuum to draw fuel through a carburetor. Better cylinder to cylinder fuel distribution is better which improves fuel economy and makes the EFI system easier to tune for emissions.
Love these videos. I just picked up a 74 super 20 crew cab. Has a 472 engine with cadillac column and power steering. The engine runs so smooth. The steering is so easy a 10 year old child could drive it. Even my lexus power steering doesn't turn that easy.
Do you have a video you could direct me to for a few basic performance upgrades to a ‘68 472? What ball park total timing should I try as I think the ‘68 has 10:1 compression? Note: someone upgraded the distributor to a DUI HEI unit. Also does the HEI ignition require different spark plugs or factory plugs with more gap considering more potential spark energy? Thanks! Great video! Great knowledge!
I've never seen an OE aluminum intake on a 425, nor have I ever seen a 425 in any Cadillac after 1979. That aluminum intake probably came off a 368 powered limo.... hence the lower flow, smaller ports
I worked at Cadillac engineering and found the aluminum single plane in the scrap pile in 1991. Was painted light blue and was told it was for a 368. Had a friend from the previous job that ran the flow bench. He knocked out the one big boss for the AC mount the hung in a front port and welded it up, cut out the center and cleaned up the plenum. It was within 1% for each runner. It was overall 17% less flow than my ported ‘69 472 Dual plane. Still have the intake never ran it.. figured it would be good for Nitrous.
Scott, if one were interested in hunting down a compatible supercharger, are there any particular cars that had factory installed units that would work? If so, what cars would they be? Or would u have to find strictly aftermarket supercharger? Thx alot, love all these videos you've been putting out and the wealth of info they contain! Plz keep um coming 👍
Mostly aftermarket... The 250 mini would work well ... Cheap way these days is really turbo .. if you run boost you need to open up Piston Clearance... Link to a guy working on oe type blower
I guess what I'm confused about, is that the 472 intake is supposed to bump power on the 425. You're saying the 425 is good on the 472/500? I'm confused.
Has anyone tried blocking off the heat riser passage and plumbing it to run ice water through it like an intercooler? A colder charge is a denser charge.
What we learned about caddy motors in 1985 and up They suck in stock form, they lack power Heavy rotating weight Heads need loads of porting Won't run on pump gas with early heads on later block Q jets suck Force induction will wake these dinosaurs up Valvetrain blues are present They coast way more then chevy bbs The blocks are awsome in strength due to a thick bore and hight nickle content 4 bolts not needed Cam choices were limited to regrinds back then A few failed from oiling issues Don't use the rear sump with long pickup The p rods bend easy Don't use the cast rods go with modded olds 455 rods. The height won't fit under the hood of most cars. Put the motor in a very lite car. Don't expect much out of a Na engine on pump gas. Bloodviking
After working on them for 25 years since 1985 Heads need major porting Distributor won't fit 7nder most car hoods Oiling system can lose prime Need flexplate modded for chevy converter Intake manifold flows uphill Hard to find rear sump and pickup for gm apps Heavy rotating weight Low rpm peak power No manual trans hole in crank Mix heads wrong and issues arise Smog motors are dogs Valvetrain worst design ever of any engine Very costly Can't get certain cad companies to even answer the phone Hard to find in junk yards now Tons of bolts in timing cover Won't bolt to chevy trans, bop Stock Intake won't take holley carb Oil shaft lose in pump gears can fall out Timing gears flake apart Non adjustable drivetrain Long push rods Many don't run on pump gas good point Great block, thickest cylinder wall. Bloodviking master engine builder
I worked on these engin3s since 1987 and found them to be so very expensive to modify. The valvetrain is the worst design ever made. The rotating and reciprocating weight are heavy. Just junk unless you replace everything in them. Bloodviking
So not true .... I run mostly stock engines and Valve train.... You need to watch my other videos guys make mistakes and blame the rocker arms all the time ...
@@scotthatch4548 where did you find the adapter to use a blower on a stock intake manifold at ? Does anyone still make them or do you know where I could buy a used Cadillac intake manifold blower adapter at ?
@@craigalston2208 b&m used to make the adapter ...kit I used was for a Pontiac .... B&M is out of business thanks to Holley but they made a lot of stuff so keep your eyes open
@@scotthatch4548 just to be clear that is a adapter that bolts the bottom of the B&M Blower to the carb mount on ANY 4 barrel intake manifold then the carb bolts to the opposite side ? Do you have any videos or installation pictures of the adapter plate before you bolt it to the Blower ? If I can get a clear / closer look at the adapter plate by itself from all side I might be able to fabricate one myself .
@@craigalston2208 yes plate bolts to the carb flange and then blower bolts to the plate ...carb goes on top of the blower ... plate has a angle on it to make the blower sit square to the crankshaft as most intakes have a angle on the carb flange... I have a whole thread on it in the Cadillac 472/500 Facebook group .... easier way is to use the Boogeyman intake and make a new top ... if I was to do it again I would probably use a 250 supercharger
You are right about Holdener. He is helpful overall with all the dyno test information, etc, but also a bullheaded know-it-all at times. And generally will not admit to being wrong, even when confronted with clear evidence.
I like the logical way you think, and appreciate the information you are providing. I have several of these Cadillac engines, but haven't gotten around to actually building one as of yet, so this is all very interesting to me.
I noticed right away that the Cadillac intake ports are too low and pointed downward, and it seemed to me that they would never produce any BBC type performance because of that issue. I wondered if it would be worth my time to mill out the top of the ports, and braze a cap back across the hole that the milling would create in the area beneath the valve cover.
I'd have to fabricate an intake manifold to fit the new port location of course, but that's not too much more trouble. Have you heard of anyone else who has gone this route? Otherwise, if you have to buy the high-dollar aftermarket aluminum heads, etc, your choices are very limited, and it seems that there is no advantage to building a Cadillac at all, if it isn't cheaper than just building a BBF or BBC Stroker, as those options are proven and very affordable at this point.
About the SPs; I assume you are aware that the HT (high torque) 4100 Cadillac engine was also a single plane design? Apparently that concept was in fashion among their engineers during that period. Edelbrock's Street Torquer was also a small runner single plane. I ran one on a 421 small block, and it seemed to perform amazingly well, although I never actually compared it to different intake on that particular engine.
Single plane designs make more sense for a fuel injected engine like the HT because they aren't reliant on creating vacuum to draw fuel through a carburetor. Better cylinder to cylinder fuel distribution is better which improves fuel economy and makes the EFI system easier to tune for emissions.
Love these videos. I just picked up a 74 super 20 crew cab. Has a 472 engine with cadillac column and power steering. The engine runs so smooth. The steering is so easy a 10 year old child could drive it. Even my lexus power steering doesn't turn that easy.
I had a 1980 coupe deville with a 368 alum intake with a quad. Thanks for making all these practical videos.
Scott thank you for sharing this info! The caddy is such a cool platform! Regards, - Scott
Yea Scott, I have seen those 425cid aluminum intakes on the limos and Fleetwoods around1979 and 1980s era caddys.
Great info!
Buy a 460 adapter and put a real intake on the thing. We did this back in the early 80s
Do you have a video you could direct me to for a few basic performance upgrades to a ‘68 472? What ball park total timing should I try as I think the ‘68 has 10:1 compression? Note: someone upgraded the distributor to a DUI HEI unit. Also does the HEI ignition require different spark plugs or factory plugs with more gap considering more potential spark energy? Thanks! Great video! Great knowledge!
I've never seen an OE aluminum intake on a 425, nor have I ever seen a 425 in any Cadillac after 1979. That aluminum intake probably came off a 368 powered limo.... hence the lower flow, smaller ports
But it's quadrajet not fuel injection ....
When I get a chance I will ask Cortney at cad co he has seen more Cadillac stuff then anyone else I know.....
@@scotthatch4548 most of the 1980 cadillacs were carbureted
I worked at Cadillac engineering and found the aluminum single plane in the scrap pile in 1991. Was painted light blue and was told it was for a 368. Had a friend from the previous job that ran the flow bench. He knocked out the one big boss for the AC mount the hung in a front port and welded it up, cut out the center and cleaned up the plenum. It was within 1% for each runner. It was overall 17% less flow than my ported ‘69 472 Dual plane. Still have the intake never ran it.. figured it would be good for Nitrous.
Scott, if one were interested in hunting down a compatible supercharger, are there any particular cars that had factory installed units that would work? If so, what cars would they be? Or would u have to find strictly aftermarket supercharger? Thx alot, love all these videos you've been putting out and the wealth of info they contain! Plz keep um coming 👍
ua-cam.com/video/h_ltLr-g4D4/v-deo.html
Mostly aftermarket... The 250 mini would work well ... Cheap way these days is really turbo .. if you run boost you need to open up Piston Clearance... Link to a guy working on oe type blower
Ol d stuff fuel injection good buy carbs are expensive
I guess what I'm confused about, is that the 472 intake is supposed to bump power on the 425. You're saying the 425 is good on the 472/500? I'm confused.
I like the 425 intake with the center cut out so you can port the plenum to runner and use it on the 472/500 engine
Scott, the fabricated long runner intake on the engine (on the engine stand) behind you is interesting. Any details available??
I'm getting to it .... Will have its own video
@@scotthatch4548 THANKs!
Has anyone tried blocking off the heat riser passage and plumbing it to run ice water through it like an intercooler? A colder charge is a denser charge.
Air moves to fast for that to help
Could a dual carb blower work on the 472
The blower looks like it’s photoshopped onto the table
In the Cadillac Facebook group I have pictures of it on the car ....
The lighting and the very white tabletop add to the illusion.
@@randyfitz8310indeed
What we learned about caddy motors in 1985 and up
They suck in stock form, they lack power
Heavy rotating weight
Heads need loads of porting
Won't run on pump gas with early heads on later block
Q jets suck
Force induction will wake these dinosaurs up
Valvetrain blues are present
They coast way more then chevy bbs
The blocks are awsome in strength due to a thick bore and hight nickle content
4 bolts not needed
Cam choices were limited to regrinds back then
A few failed from oiling issues
Don't use the rear sump with long pickup
The p rods bend easy
Don't use the cast rods go with modded olds 455 rods.
The height won't fit under the hood of most cars.
Put the motor in a very lite car.
Don't expect much out of a Na engine on pump gas.
Bloodviking
I need some help i trying to convert my 81 368 cadillac from tbi to carb what intake and carb i should get and would the fuel pump still work
In the subscription list look for Ray Soto ... Go to his Page ...he did that very thing
After working on them for 25 years since 1985
Heads need major porting
Distributor won't fit 7nder most car hoods
Oiling system can lose prime
Need flexplate modded for chevy converter
Intake manifold flows uphill
Hard to find rear sump and pickup for gm apps
Heavy rotating weight
Low rpm peak power
No manual trans hole in crank
Mix heads wrong and issues arise
Smog motors are dogs
Valvetrain worst design ever of any engine
Very costly
Can't get certain cad companies to even answer the phone
Hard to find in junk yards now
Tons of bolts in timing cover
Won't bolt to chevy trans, bop
Stock Intake won't take holley carb
Oil shaft lose in pump gears can fall out
Timing gears flake apart
Non adjustable drivetrain
Long push rods
Many don't run on pump gas
good point
Great block, thickest cylinder wall.
Bloodviking master engine builder
My God, those intakes are terrible. Good thing the Caddi have 5 inch bore spacing.
I worked on these engin3s since 1987 and found them to be so very expensive to modify. The valvetrain is the worst design ever made. The rotating and reciprocating weight are heavy. Just junk unless you replace everything in them.
Bloodviking
So not true .... I run mostly stock engines and Valve train.... You need to watch my other videos guys make mistakes and blame the rocker arms all the time ...
@@scotthatch4548 where did you find the adapter to use a blower on a stock intake manifold at ? Does anyone still make them or do you know where I could buy a used Cadillac intake manifold blower adapter at ?
@@craigalston2208 b&m used to make the adapter ...kit I used was for a Pontiac .... B&M is out of business thanks to Holley but they made a lot of stuff so keep your eyes open
@@scotthatch4548 just to be clear that is a adapter that bolts the bottom of the B&M Blower to the carb mount on ANY 4 barrel intake manifold then the carb bolts to the opposite side ?
Do you have any videos or installation pictures of the adapter plate before you bolt it to the Blower ? If I can get a clear / closer look at the adapter plate by itself from all side I might be able to fabricate one myself .
@@craigalston2208 yes plate bolts to the carb flange and then blower bolts to the plate ...carb goes on top of the blower ... plate has a angle on it to make the blower sit square to the crankshaft as most intakes have a angle on the carb flange... I have a whole thread on it in the Cadillac 472/500 Facebook group .... easier way is to use the Boogeyman intake and make a new top ... if I was to do it again I would probably use a 250 supercharger
These manifolds are junkkkkkkk
How so ? Not sure why you are here when you clearly don't like the engine family