Sold my power back in 2022. Best decision I ever made. I'm a player at heart and I couldn't justify sitting on 50k in cards that I play once a year at eternal weekend. Didn't help that EW got canceled a few times due to covid. The collectors treating the RL as an unregulated stock market are choking old formats from being viable for growth. Since 2012 I've been hoping WotC would print the mtgo vintage cube as gold border (different size/different back) as a christmas product more akin to a board game.
i do agree with this. i think that is worthy of another video discussion. kinda like edh, it gives a lot of group replay value with the same cards we have.
@@vintagemagic Yeah, it’s fun as a collector too. I found the bulk of a potential cube in my collection and ever since have been ordering updates adding new powerful cards, finding the art treatments I like, buying back a few cards I sold 10 years ago. The best part, after a long day of work, is opening up a cube worthy card I had ordered weeks ago and forgotten. Then I’ll double sleeve it, choose a card to remove from the cube, add it in paper and online. And I will have this cube forever!
I think “old school” interest is fairly low personally. I support a content creator and I intend to continue… but old school is a misnomer. There are serious issues with the banned/restricted lists and they should have frozen the rules in the late 90’s, early 00’s when the competitive rules were established and this cardpool was sorted. I’m pretty sure I know how a mishra’s factory works and there are about a dozen such issues where they pick and choose and sort of have a stale meta as a consequence.
Being from a small town in Ontario Canada old school 93/94 is pretty much non-existent. I am the only old school player in town. The good thing is I get travel to certain cities where the format thrives and I meet new people. Legacy is my favorite format and nobody even plays that in my hometown. Modern and commander are the two formats that are the most popular. I think old school will never go away as long as people keep playing it and promoting the format. This could be done by posting live events , podcasts ect. As long as it's talked about and exposed to younger or newer generation I think they'll always be an interest. Proxies will always be a thing with the younger generation who can't afford the power 9 or duel lands but at least it will still be accessible. I think that's why the format may be a bit stagnant because of accessibility and financial reasons for players. Old school magic is not the easiest format to get into.
I love playing Old School. It’s my format of choice and so fun. Really good communities out there of folks who really love the nostalgia of the original Magic cards. I’m not a fan of Swedish as it is very exclusive. I want the format to grow so I think including Revised, reprints and CE/IE is the way to go.
just curious, do CE/IE cards get pretty beaten up when played? The square corners seem like they could be a problem but maybe not with the right sleeves...
@@ljkb23I use kmc perfect fits and dragon shield sleeves, my ce cards are fine. Sleeves must be in decent condition, if they have bends or crimped corners they are difficult to put a ce card into. I’d recommend new perfect fits and never removing them from it.
ce/ie can be played ok with sleeves. i have avoided KMC inner sleeves and just gone with my regular sleeves and over sleeves. This makes pulling the cards out way easier. I think its how you shuffle and play. If you bend them or snap the cards, you will easily damage ce/ice cards.
@@ljkb23I haven’t had a problem. I double sleeve them with KMC and dragon shield. For really $$$ cards if I’m using them for play, I usually buy an MP/HP copy anyway since I’ll save money and not sweat it if I cause minor wear.
Seeing as we have an in-person alpha 40 league (w/beta) event coming up in January this year, and sign ups are already half full in 2 days, I'd say no, it's not dying.
When interest rates decrease within the next months, old MTG cards will become more attractive as an investment. By the way, of course you may use Alpha cards on tournaments in OS decks. You only have to sleeve them.
@@vintagemagic From 1995 to 1999, Alpha cards were only legal for tournament play if your entire deck consisted of Alpha cards. Starting in the year 2000, WotC updated the tournament rules to allow Alpha cards universally, as long as you played with opaque sleeves.
We have seen light decline in old school mtg prices (playable cards) and I predict trend to continue but it'll take decades to 'die' and old cards will have significant value (yet they were brutally overvalued in 2018-2022 market). I think graded mtg will remain as very marginal hobby but old school 93/94 I'll expect to be as popular at least 10 years as it's now.
@@vintagemagic After decades, or 50+ years mtg might become irrelevant yet grails will hold more or less value. Most valuable stamps might be more expensive than most expensive mtg cards yet hobbies have many similarities at that point. Market values become hard to determine and we might see rare resellers pay like 20-30% of 'market value' meaning there is no really such thing absolutely any longer. Maybe could be reasonable to GUESS 2060 we might see like equivalent to 50$ duals which some old school players still buy. This doesn't mean that duals could not be even more valuable between timepoints as they are now so they could even be a fine investment for sophisticated reseller. Alpha Lotus might still be 100k$+ when it moves but not many eyes on it. Lower end becomes mostly bulk. Depends a lot how far modern magic can go and can it build any longer term hobby but it ain't looking good atm. Can commander carry game decades alone. Maybe this is like lowest 40% negative scenario and depends a lot will we see decline overally in tcgs. Strong Pokemon could carry MTG hobby better for example and not be totally separate entity. More positive foresight is that most cards might decline slowly but some will go up because they they are so relevant relics from nineties. But 5 years is 1000x easier to predict. I expect playable cards will continue to have strong demand and we might see raising prices in some cards. Old school player population especially outside US isn't that old. Most are like 35-45y old individuals who love the cards no matter what. Maybe there will be new pinnacle when they start to retire and have more free time. Be prepared that market is will not be 'cyclical' eternity. Even Pokemon will probably go ultimately linear way. 2018, 2020-21 were such a rodeo and it's totally reasonable to say mtg had overally its highest pinnacle during 2020-2022.
Alpha40 is my at home webcam thing personally. But yeah its not gonna grow at this rate. Old school wont grow but i dont think its dying either. It has its player base. And yes you can use alphas in vintage because we use sleeves and you cant tell corners in sleeves. Vintage is the format i actually care about. Wotc should just start allowing proxies in vintage and legacy events.
Yeah I think so but I don’t look at it as a cataclysmic event. I still play and even buy, especially now that it is “more” affordable. However, my principle has always been that these are essentially worthless as a concept… they are paper. In 200 years they have no value intrinsic value in other words. What we are talking about is a bell curve and how big that curve is, how tall, long over time and so on but all things essentially rise and fall. If you look close there are rises and falls and it appears jagged but if you zoom out it will appear smooth from a far away point of view. I do not believe that these pieces of originals will have the same value as people believe that they will generation to generation. And MTG 30 and the greater health of the game is harming the health and it will “play” itself out of there is no creative ideas to keep it afloat. There are just too many competitors in the marketplace at this point and the core enthusiasts are aging out. I’m not a sky is falling person but overall I think the pandemic caused allot of people to spend allot of money they wouldn’t have otherwise and watch allot of UA-cam. I don’t see sustained prices at what they were and we are probably on the other side of that bell at this point. But it’s a big bell. People shouldn’t get out but they have to be reasonable in that they are collecting a game… it should be to have fun. People are acting like it’s stock… and it’s not
I gotta agree with you here. I think a lot of these cards will still have value in 20 years from now but not as much as they hold today. People should collect old school to enjoy the cards but definitely not as a investment. Those days are done.
I would change the title to is magic dying to is my old magic cards losing money? Yes, if you invest in magic, you will lose money. Old school magic value drops when Hasbro does reprints and bitcoin drops.
Kinda sad that classic mtg interest is being relegated to older generation. To put it kindly. It's not carrying over. It still be around, exchange hands between said older generation. Hot potato. Rudy can sell modern sealed product well but he can't sell old school.
I don't think Rudy has tried to sell any of his old school investments? I think older mtg would be more accessible if the prices weren't so unaccessible - I'm talking the format and game that is.
@@vintagemagic thanks for your response. I just thought it looked like bragging and took away from the actually good content. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for you to be able to send your wife shopping at LV. I just think you don't need that.
I think the high startup cost for old school definitely puts people off, so I do think pushing more of the budget friendly old school formats like x points can bring in newer players that haven’t played before. I have a channel all about premodern and get comments from newer players about that eras cards being ‘unplayable’ , terrible , boomer cards etc and premodern cards are arguably more powerful than old school. I think a big issue is that mtg has had such insane power creep over the past 5 years that newer players view even stuff like serendib, disenchant, and juzam djinn as extremely bad cards. However there are newer players who specifically like the older formats because the new cards are too crazy even for new players
yeah the older cards have a history and flavor unlike the contemporary mtg today. its like playing Risk or monopoly, scrabble, its not a hybrid or some crazy version. I think some players may find it kinda slow and boring, or maybe it invokes the past and what mtg was, bringing a new era?
@@vintagemagic I was talking to some people who had some success bringing newer players at their local store to premodern by explaining that the reason they think it’s bad is actually why it’s good because it’s not like modern magic where you need to immediately kill their bomb or lose super quickly and the game is over if you miss a powerful drop etc. But I do think also think that old school will keep growing. I went to an event in Europe recently and almost all of the players were late 20’s- early 40s with no intention to stop playing in the next 5-10 years. Premodern cards have already had massive growth but I think they will keep growing loads in the future
Sadly think old school is going to die as a format. Unless wizards does something to reinvigorate the interest in older magic, the new generation will be more interested in the flashy new cards and could care less about four horseman and abu cards. I certainly think thats one of the main reasons modern magic is doing so well and vintage is so stale.
I think old magic wont grow because the newer generations won't value the old cards as much as the previous generation. So the cards will be valued high and no-one willing to buy. This might lead to an MTG crisis where old timers might panic sell just to get something out of their collection. New magic will keep using pop culture to push new magic. There is no nostalgic TV series like in Pokémon. And after the disaster of magic 30, people care less for it. Profs recent revisited opening video kinda proves it. He really enjoys the opening but it does nothing for many people. If WotC made a more affordable ways for people to experience old magic, maybe there is a chance, else I don't see it happening.
You have to distinguish between players and collectors. There is a stable players and some collectors demand at the moment, but not enough to increase prices. Interest rates cuts in the upcoming months will lead to more interest in investing into old cards.
i think they changed the official vintage rules many years ago legalizing alpha cards in sanctioned tournaments
Sold my power back in 2022. Best decision I ever made. I'm a player at heart and I couldn't justify sitting on 50k in cards that I play once a year at eternal weekend. Didn't help that EW got canceled a few times due to covid.
The collectors treating the RL as an unregulated stock market are choking old formats from being viable for growth.
Since 2012 I've been hoping WotC would print the mtgo vintage cube as gold border (different size/different back) as a christmas product more akin to a board game.
Even though old school magic is fading, Vintage Cube has probably never been more popular.
i do agree with this. i think that is worthy of another video discussion.
kinda like edh, it gives a lot of group replay value with the same cards we have.
@@vintagemagic Yeah, it’s fun as a collector too. I found the bulk of a potential cube in my collection and ever since have been ordering updates adding new powerful cards, finding the art treatments I like, buying back a few cards I sold 10 years ago. The best part, after a long day of work, is opening up a cube worthy card I had ordered weeks ago and forgotten. Then I’ll double sleeve it, choose a card to remove from the cube, add it in paper and online. And I will have this cube forever!
I think “old school” interest is fairly low personally. I support a content creator and I intend to continue… but old school is a misnomer.
There are serious issues with the banned/restricted lists and they should have frozen the rules in the late 90’s, early 00’s when the competitive rules were established and this cardpool was sorted.
I’m pretty sure I know how a mishra’s factory works and there are about a dozen such issues where they pick and choose and sort of have a stale meta as a consequence.
Being from a small town in Ontario Canada old school 93/94 is pretty much non-existent. I am the only old school player in town. The good thing is I get travel to certain cities where the format thrives and I meet new people. Legacy is my favorite format and nobody even plays that in my hometown. Modern and commander are the two formats that are the most popular. I think old school will never go away as long as people keep playing it and promoting the format. This could be done by posting live events , podcasts ect. As long as it's talked about and exposed to younger or newer generation I think they'll always be an interest. Proxies will always be a thing with the younger generation who can't afford the power 9 or duel lands but at least it will still be accessible. I think that's why the format may be a bit stagnant because of accessibility and financial reasons for players. Old school magic is not the easiest format to get into.
where in ontario are you from?
@@vintagemagic I'm from a town called Trenton Ontario. We're home to the biggest air base in Canada.
I love playing Old School. It’s my format of choice and so fun. Really good communities out there of folks who really love the nostalgia of the original Magic cards.
I’m not a fan of Swedish as it is very exclusive. I want the format to grow so I think including Revised, reprints and CE/IE is the way to go.
just curious, do CE/IE cards get pretty beaten up when played? The square corners seem like they could be a problem but maybe not with the right sleeves...
@@ljkb23I use kmc perfect fits and dragon shield sleeves, my ce cards are fine. Sleeves must be in decent condition, if they have bends or crimped corners they are difficult to put a ce card into. I’d recommend new perfect fits and never removing them from it.
ce/ie can be played ok with sleeves. i have avoided KMC inner sleeves and just gone with my regular sleeves and over sleeves. This makes pulling the cards out way easier. I think its how you shuffle and play. If you bend them or snap the cards, you will easily damage ce/ice cards.
@@ljkb23I haven’t had a problem. I double sleeve them with KMC and dragon shield. For really $$$ cards if I’m using them for play, I usually buy an MP/HP copy anyway since I’ll save money and not sweat it if I cause minor wear.
@@ljkb23 You have to triple sleeve them.
Seeing as we have an in-person alpha 40 league (w/beta) event coming up in January this year, and sign ups are already half full in 2 days, I'd say no, it's not dying.
When interest rates decrease within the next months, old MTG cards will become more attractive as an investment. By the way, of course you may use Alpha cards on tournaments in OS decks. You only have to sleeve them.
Thanks! I was actually curious for sanctioned vintage and legacy events, are alpha cards allowed due to the corners?
@@vintagemagic From 1995 to 1999, Alpha cards were only legal for tournament play if your entire deck consisted of Alpha cards. Starting in the year 2000, WotC updated the tournament rules to allow Alpha cards universally, as long as you played with opaque sleeves.
We have seen light decline in old school mtg prices (playable cards) and I predict trend to continue but it'll take decades to 'die' and old cards will have significant value (yet they were brutally overvalued in 2018-2022 market). I think graded mtg will remain as very marginal hobby but old school 93/94 I'll expect to be as popular at least 10 years as it's now.
So after decades...what happens where are the prices in your opinion?
@@vintagemagic After decades, or 50+ years mtg might become irrelevant yet grails will hold more or less value. Most valuable stamps might be more expensive than most expensive mtg cards yet hobbies have many similarities at that point. Market values become hard to determine and we might see rare resellers pay like 20-30% of 'market value' meaning there is no really such thing absolutely any longer. Maybe could be reasonable to GUESS 2060 we might see like equivalent to 50$ duals which some old school players still buy. This doesn't mean that duals could not be even more valuable between timepoints as they are now so they could even be a fine investment for sophisticated reseller. Alpha Lotus might still be 100k$+ when it moves but not many eyes on it. Lower end becomes mostly bulk. Depends a lot how far modern magic can go and can it build any longer term hobby but it ain't looking good atm. Can commander carry game decades alone. Maybe this is like lowest 40% negative scenario and depends a lot will we see decline overally in tcgs. Strong Pokemon could carry MTG hobby better for example and not be totally separate entity. More positive foresight is that most cards might decline slowly but some will go up because they they are so relevant relics from nineties.
But 5 years is 1000x easier to predict. I expect playable cards will continue to have strong demand and we might see raising prices in some cards. Old school player population especially outside US isn't that old. Most are like 35-45y old individuals who love the cards no matter what. Maybe there will be new pinnacle when they start to retire and have more free time. Be prepared that market is will not be 'cyclical' eternity. Even Pokemon will probably go ultimately linear way. 2018, 2020-21 were such a rodeo and it's totally reasonable to say mtg had overally its highest pinnacle during 2020-2022.
Alpha40 is my at home webcam thing personally. But yeah its not gonna grow at this rate. Old school wont grow but i dont think its dying either. It has its player base. And yes you can use alphas in vintage because we use sleeves and you cant tell corners in sleeves. Vintage is the format i actually care about. Wotc should just start allowing proxies in vintage and legacy events.
Yeah I think so but I don’t look at it as a cataclysmic event. I still play and even buy, especially now that it is “more” affordable.
However, my principle has always been that these are essentially worthless as a concept… they are paper. In 200 years they have no value intrinsic value in other words.
What we are talking about is a bell curve and how big that curve is, how tall, long over time and so on but all things essentially rise and fall. If you look close there are rises and falls and it appears jagged but if you zoom out it will appear smooth from a far away point of view.
I do not believe that these pieces of originals will have the same value as people believe that they will generation to generation. And MTG 30 and the greater health of the game is harming the health and it will “play” itself out of there is no creative ideas to keep it afloat.
There are just too many competitors in the marketplace at this point and the core enthusiasts are aging out.
I’m not a sky is falling person but overall I think the pandemic caused allot of people to spend allot of money they wouldn’t have otherwise and watch allot of UA-cam. I don’t see sustained prices at what they were and we are probably on the other side of that bell at this point. But it’s a big bell.
People shouldn’t get out but they have to be reasonable in that they are collecting a game… it should be to have fun. People are acting like it’s stock… and it’s not
I gotta agree with you here. I think a lot of these cards will still have value in 20 years from now but not as much as they hold today. People should collect old school to enjoy the cards but definitely not as a investment. Those days are done.
My friends and I simply play old school Chinese proxies. Playing original decks cost insane amount of money.
I would change the title to is magic dying to is my old magic cards losing money? Yes, if you invest in magic, you will lose money. Old school magic value drops when Hasbro does reprints and bitcoin drops.
Yes im down with vintage reprints lets go🚀🌙
If old school dies where will I play my 50 bird maidens?
That is an epic sheet!
one of the most legendary ones I have owned!
Kinda sad that classic mtg interest is being relegated to older generation. To put it kindly.
It's not carrying over. It still be around, exchange hands between said older generation. Hot potato.
Rudy can sell modern sealed product well but he can't sell old school.
I don't think Rudy has tried to sell any of his old school investments? I think older mtg would be more accessible if the prices weren't so unaccessible - I'm talking the format and game that is.
@@vintagemagic Collectors hoarding make the P9 on the market overpriced. That makes old school 40 mostly unaffordable to most.
I retired from playing when Ravnica appeared, I live in South America, how could I sell my cards there? I have videos on this account greetings
Why in the world are those LV boxes in the background???
lol my wife had some stuff laying around so i just made a background
@@vintagemagic thanks for your response. I just thought it looked like bragging and took away from the actually good content. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for you to be able to send your wife shopping at LV. I just think you don't need that.
I think the high startup cost for old school definitely puts people off, so I do think pushing more of the budget friendly old school formats like x points can bring in newer players that haven’t played before.
I have a channel all about premodern and get comments from newer players about that eras cards being ‘unplayable’ , terrible , boomer cards etc and premodern cards are arguably more powerful than old school. I think a big issue is that mtg has had such insane power creep over the past 5 years that newer players view even stuff like serendib, disenchant, and juzam djinn as extremely bad cards.
However there are newer players who specifically like the older formats because the new cards are too crazy even for new players
yeah the older cards have a history and flavor unlike the contemporary mtg today. its like playing Risk or monopoly, scrabble, its not a hybrid or some crazy version. I think some players may find it kinda slow and boring, or maybe it invokes the past and what mtg was, bringing a new era?
@@vintagemagic I was talking to some people who had some success bringing newer players at their local store to premodern by explaining that the reason they think it’s bad is actually why it’s good because it’s not like modern magic where you need to immediately kill their bomb or lose super quickly and the game is over if you miss a powerful drop etc.
But I do think also think that old school will keep growing. I went to an event in Europe recently and almost all of the players were late 20’s- early 40s with no intention to stop playing in the next 5-10 years.
Premodern cards have already had massive growth but I think they will keep growing loads in the future
Sadly think old school is going to die as a format. Unless wizards does something to reinvigorate the interest in older magic, the new generation will be more interested in the flashy new cards and could care less about four horseman and abu cards. I certainly think thats one of the main reasons modern magic is doing so well and vintage is so stale.
I think old magic wont grow because the newer generations won't value the old cards as much as the previous generation.
So the cards will be valued high and no-one willing to buy. This might lead to an MTG crisis where old timers might panic sell just to get something out of their collection.
New magic will keep using pop culture to push new magic.
There is no nostalgic TV series like in Pokémon.
And after the disaster of magic 30, people care less for it.
Profs recent revisited opening video kinda proves it. He really enjoys the opening but it does nothing for many people.
If WotC made a more affordable ways for people to experience old magic, maybe there is a chance, else I don't see it happening.
yeah that is leading to an video i'm going to have to make about the reserve list debate.
You have to distinguish between players and collectors. There is a stable players and some collectors demand at the moment, but not enough to increase prices. Interest rates cuts in the upcoming months will lead to more interest in investing into old cards.
The new “old school” is premodern and I think it’s going to become more popular with time