If you could go back in time to the 80's with macbook pros full of plugins like arturia , softube , gforce ... no one would even hesitate to stop using hardware .Back then they had great musiciens with primitive limited technology , we have the opposite problem today
I do think I know what you mean, and I think I don't disagree with the spirit of it. If you are talking about popular music, chart music, music that is massively consumed. But, on the other hand, the standard of professional musicians is higher now than it was in the 1980s. The skill of the best young musicians today would frighten their equivalent in the 1980s; the professional level has actually raised a lot. But yes, you'd never know that by what musicians and music actually gets pushed out to the masses these days.
I think that nowadays, it comes down to what workflow inspire you the most and enables you to get things done. Personally I often use plugins as prototype sounds while putting the tracks together and building the structure of the song. After I'll do some sound design and some of the tracks will be played by hardware synths if I can come up with a patch that sounds better than the prototype sound. However more and more tracks end up staying on the plugin as it's not automatic that I'll be able to come up with a better patch on a hardware synth. So to me I don't really care if the final track is done with a hardware synth vs a plugin I use the tools that gives me the best result.
Thing is, when you want to play your track live. Would you bring computer or hardware instruments?I like hardware for various reasons, but I don't have money or space for all synthesisers I would like to have. So, plug-ins are my only option for the most part.
@@303machine Well, to play live, I would gravitate more towards using a workstation type keyboard like a Yamaha Montage or Roland Phantom where all the synths and plugins that were used in the studio recording are sampled except maybe for one mono synth like a PRO3 or a Sub37. With a two keyboard setup like that (workstation + mono synth), you have a very reliable and versatile setup that lets you perform live pretty much anything regardless of what instruments you originally used in the studio. Some people don’t mind using a computer on stage but I prefer using a simplified setup while playing live compared to what was originally used for the studio recording.
this is how I do it now too, and the end result is selling more and more HW synths that cant contribute something different often enough to justify staying
I actually work the opposite, but probably arrive at about the same place in terms of ratio of hardware to software sound. I usually use hardware for ideation, almost the way I might use an acoustic guitar, away from the computer just playing around, because I feel like I go in more interesting directions that way. When something catches, I'll pull up the DAW and record some stuff...maybe just audio, or maybe audio + midi, then save for later and see how I feel when I come back to it. If I decide to produce, I then start working with VSTs (including/mostly V-Collection). Sometimes the original hardware tracks stay in, but about 75% of the time they get replaced by VSTs because it's just easier to continue to refine and get just the right sound over time. But every now and then that original recording can't be matched, but it's not so much the sound of the hardware vs. VST, but rather it captured better or more nuanced playing, or maybe a happy accident, that I just can't seem to reproduce, which...well, that's what the hardware is all about for me. VSTs have the sound. I just seem to play and think different on a real instrument. (For better or worse.)
Nice t-shirt! Talking of "Japan", I'm extremely fortunate to have 2 members of Japan (Robert Dean and Steve Jansen) play on my forthcoming release "Always, Never."
Espen, great video! I think with the high cost of vintage physical synths, the Arturia Collection v9 is the best option - especially for young musicians on a budget. I sold all my keyboards and synths during the pandemic and have gone totally digital and in-the-box, using all virtual synths. Even live, I’m using all VSTs and MainStage on a MacBook Pro. Awesome portability, plus access to 20,000+ presets at my finger-tips.
I've been thinking about going 100% in the box and using something like the Arturia package or Omnisphere ... they sound amazing and are so versatile ... so what did I just do last week? I bought a perfect condition, second hand Yamaha Motif XF6 ... ANOTHER hardware synth.. (sigh) ... for what I paid for it, I could have setup a brilliant VST studio with a dedicated midi controller as well .... old habits die very, very hard.... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
I was listening on my phone, but wow this song is a banger, that chorus is so good and I don't think I could ever notice it was VSTs when everything's put together like that. I already have a few 80s synths like the jx-3p I could never part with, but it just shows how much talent and skill rules over equipment
After a massive stroke last year, business closed and not being able to code anymore I tried to reach out to Arturia (because I now have less than $50 / month) and offered them to make an entire album using V collection X .. obviously I can't afford it, and when nobody reacted I used their free Analog Lab play and did "When You Said bye" .. At least I tried 🙂
Anything you make, either vintage gear or new, is always top notch quality. I’m excited to see what you do going forward with all the new gear. You are a very talented musician so you can effectively use any tool.
Glad to see you going over to "The Dark Side" LOL. Blending soft synths with hardware synths is something I've been doing since the mid 80s, and have highly recommended for many years. I've been using VST's since they first came out in my bands. As strictly a live performer, they are pretty hard to beat for transporting to gigs & practice for mimicking the sounds of several bulky, expensive & unreliable hardware classics. Not to mention the gigantic difference in cost. I'm at the point now where software has become so good, I have software clones of all my hardware synths and most of them stay in storage now. The only hardware synth I gig with is my Yamaha MODX (light weight Yamaha Montage), and even that is coming out as a soft synth from Yamaha in 2024 as the new Yamaha Montage M VST (unsure of the name they will use). I still feel a live performer should have at least one modern, powerful hardware synth in their rig as backup to quickly jump to if the computer fails in the middle of a song and needs to be rebooted or something. I'm considering using two laptops with one for back up using A/B MIDI pedal switches to quickly be able to jump from one laptop to the other. If my new Cars tribute band starts playing large theaters, this could be important. For now, I try to have every song setup so I could play it on the MODX alone......if I really had to. It wouldn't sound as good, but could get me through the songs in a jam. Are you familiar with The Cars, an American New Wave band that sold millions of albums in America between 1978 - 1987? Keyboardist Greg Hawk made great use of many classic such such as the Mini Korg, Prophet 5, ARP Solina, Jupiter 8, DX-7, Synclavier and many others.
@@EspenKraft I wasn't sure if they were much known out of the USA, like one of my favorite bands.....Styx. Have you heard their New Wave album...."Kilroy was here" ? I really enjoyed it, but some older fans didn't like the change to New Wave.
I have been using the V Collection since V collection 3 one of my favorites in the collection is Oberheimer OB-XA sounds like the real one so authentic plus with tuning knob under the hood make is sound vintage and worn. Nice to see you using this collection for me it is the cleanest way to go.
Nice! Considering the original OBXAs break constantly (former owner) I decided to sell mine for the price of a used compact car. Syntronik 2 is another great synth software package
I scored a local documentary and it was my first chance to blend hardware and soft synths. I used a TR-Rack & JV-2080 with U-he and built in Logic Synths. I was really happy with most of the results when blended tastefully.
I have the V-Collection 9 and it has still not being used. I am building a gig rig based on Gig Performer and have installed there all the V-Collection (along some other VSTs) so this video helps me to push the use of the V-Collection sounds on that rig. Thanks for your detailed explanation on how to put them to use in a song, very interesting
Especially the raw power of vintage analogs needs to be tamed, where plugins rather need to be freshed up and deepened (if that's a word) to bring them closer to the originals. Then there is the airiness in a mix you can never truly achieve using plugins only. My two cents.
As somone who is new to music production, I am grateful for the existence of these soft synths so that we can experience the sounds of hardware that we can never afford.
I think I just entered a 1980's time machine listening to your music. Thanks Espen awsome sounds. I love Arturia for having so many sounds available at your fingertips, without the space requirements, or a gazillion cords patching everything together. I would still love to be able to own all the old synths Arturia has modelled, but at this point in history would be great dust collectors.✌
The way I see it, there are 2 types of listeners - music lovers or consumer, and music makers or creators. Of the former, 99+ percent neither know nor care how the music is produced they just know what they like the sound of. The latter will have their preference of whether they appreciate the convenience and speed of production in the box or tactility and sound of external hardware. As time goes on the audible differences between the two will contino timue to shrink with advances in technology, but the feeling of using dedicated hardware can be more inspirational to a lot of musicians. I personally use both, but find hardware more inspirational. The problem with soft synths is too much choice. You can get sucked into spending hours searching through thousands of presets before settling for something. With hardware, it's the opposite. You are limited to what the synth (or effect) can physically do with it's single "instance" I like to work with those "limitations" and try to get the most from what it can give. With VSTs, I like to go from an initialised patch and build from there. I would be really interested in hearing a version of the track recorded with the hardware equivalent, where possible, and your thoughts on the process. Cheers!
This is not an experiment as far as the result is concerned. This IS the final mix of this song and it's going onto my album coming in 2024. Re-recording is not something I'm going to do. The song is done and I'm on to the next. ;-)
@@EspenKraft well said Mr. Kraft. I wasn't suggesting it was an experiment though. Just a thought experiment on my part. It stands up on its own and is most worthy. Cheers!
Sure. If it was an experiment to compare I would have done it, but I truly wanted to make a complete track for my album using this bundle for all the synth sounds only. And nothing more. ;-)
@@EspenKraft and it went very well.💯 Now, let's have no more of this silly talk about selling your beautiful collection 😉 Do you think you'd make an entire album using the soft versions or maybe just use them for equipment that you don't currently have hardware versions of, like maybe Synclavier or Fairlight etc? Or in a live situation? I'm guessing not for the last.
Live I will continue to drive tracks from my MacBook, but I will play the rest from hardware synths. Like I say in this video, my new album will be made from using old and new tech. Like I've always done. Almost all my music have plugins in them. And vintage synths. I never think much about it. ;-)
I’m glad you were able to get all the classic tones you’ve made a name for yourself with from that Arturia plug-in, Espen. For my part, I would only think of taking that tack and turning loose of my own vintage (and reissue) pieces if I could condense all of it even further. If (my equivalent of) the MacBook, the PreSonus, the external DAW, etc could be consolidated into (such an instrument model as) the Akai MPC Key and it could cover the use of both the soft synths, the sequencing and the use of live mics for my acoustic instruments & voice, then *that* could be a game changer. That’s why I was pretty disappointed when I learned that Open Labs fell through. The design of the NeKo was brilliant, and it should have been allowed to evolve.
Espen you have done an awesome job with these vsts. I love the track. It sounds authentic to that sweet 80s sound! Knowing your hardware synths help with making their vst counterparts sound like they should. Great job!
Beyond the cozy glow of old hardware, the tactile sensation, and the nostalgia - I prefer the instant recall of VST's. I just love being able to open a project I haven't worked in months in Reaper, and have all the VST synth settings exactly how I left them without having to manually dial in presets and knobs.
Great video and tutorial, a really useful look at music making, thanks. You really do own that 80's sound!! I get the feeling that for a lot of us from the 80's who wanted to make music and could not afford to ... now find our selves transported to Wiily Wonkas music factory and we never have to go back home ... we just have to work out what lick to make first!!! 😉😅😅
If Espen had told you this track was recoded only with vintage synths, you wouldn't even doubt him. Modern, high quality VSTs such as Arturia V Collection are so close to hardware (especially after you process them) that it's not even worth arguing about anymore.
@@grindhouseglitchI agree. I have used hardware synths since 1985 and started using (mostly) Arturia's products years ago alongside hardware and I will never look back. You could spend ages making geeky A/B comparisons, which may well be favourable to hardware synths but, in a mix, you wouldn't know the difference. Besides, listeners / audiences couldn't care less. As much as I enjoyed the vintage synths I once owned, I can no longer afford any and I have limited space so I'm happy with what I have now. Which, of course, doesn't prevent me from enjoying Espen's amazing videos, which are a fantastic trip down Memory Lane for me!
You are used to the chorus of the Roland synths he uses in hardware and that is a big part of the 80s sound, also the plugins tend to have a lot of reverb by default which can build up quite easily and make everything less upfront, I believe he took that off here though. I also think basslines are better handled by real analogue but its definitely given him a different direction using these plugins, probably a bit more variation due to more options.
@@grindhouseglitch I love vintage synths, but I tend to agree. Though, Arturia V Collection doesn't necessarily have the best VST emulation of every single instrument in it's collection. Pigments is one of the best modern synths (maybe only bested by the more complex and expensive Phase Plant and UVI Falcon). There are better Prophet 5 emulations (Softube, Repro), Moog Emulations (Synapse The Legend), and Oberheim Emulations (G-Force OB-E & SEM, Synapse Obsession). Not that the Arturia's aren't very good, and plenty are really excellent (MS-20, SQ-80). A fair comparison would use the best VST in the market to compare the original. There, the differences between Softube Model 80 and a vintage Prophet 5 are exactly as you describe it (even without processing).
I got the Arturia Juno Chorus for free with my purchase of the MoogerFooger plug-ins, I really like it. This is a company I’m more curious about lately. Great video Espen! Keeping an open mind is great for creativity.
As a man that love vintage synths but with a very limited amount of space these type of plugins are amazing. Hope for more plugins and perhaps comparisons to hardware. The benefit of analog hardware synth is that there are all these knobs and sliders and those a really nice for tweaking and having fun.
I started working with software synths and VST plugins back in the 90's when everybody was using "real" gear and my studio was only a PC and studio monitors. Now I have a wall of vintage synths, mixers and effects because the "soul" od all that wall of equipment cannot be emulated, believe me.
Yes I agree. Vsts have come along way. And espen has recorded and processed this in a way that makes it more hard to distinguish.. but it still feels “ dead“ “stale “ if you’ve come accustomed to hardware recordings... But to the average ear .. they won’t tell much difference. I prefer to stick to hardware.. Because You can still hear and feel some differences or the “ soul” you mentioned . Or as displayed in espens JX8P vs jxp08( boutique) video..there’s still differences..
I am in the same boat. Software in the 90’s and 2000’s, with hardware slowly taking over… I still use software, but mainly for audio processing, mixing and mastering…
Hi @aspenkraft - what a great experiment! I don’t want to ‘invade’ your channel with my channel - but I think that I did a comparisson that is really relevant in this case: I made video’s comparing the Arturia plug-ins with my hardware CS80 and Jupiter 8. Viewers had to guess which was the hardware and which one the plug. I even included a google questionaire. Long story short: around 30 - 40% of synth fans couldn’t hear the difference between hard en software. If you are interested, this is the link: ua-cam.com/video/4-wUodAF6iM/v-deo.htmlsi=zofv6UDvpIC4mDRV - please feel free to remove my post if it’s too ‘spammy’ - that certainly wasn’t my intention! Warm regards from Amsterdam!
I've actually seen this video. Not commented or anything. I could tell them apart on some sounds, on other' I could not. Side by side in a room with both it's more apparent, but in a mix it's very difficult. Sometimes I want the unique hardware in a production because inspiration comes comes from an instrument, while at other times I'm only after a sound and then software will suffice. It changes from time to time, but the RESULT.... that matters mostly to the listener and the casual listener, "normal" people, will listen with their hearts and to them it's totally irrelevant what we used as sound sources. Synth heads will listen with a ton of prejudice and biased perceptions and as such they (we) are bonkers. ;-)
@@EspenKraft we fully agree on this - there is absolute magic in playing the real thing - but it’s just great that all synth fans have access to these instruments and sounds. And I do also mix hardware with software - especially the Vangelis pads by Omnisphere are just spon on. Keep up the good work :-)
I have a lot of old analog synth in my studio. But in my productions I often use the Arturia virtual synths for many years now. Startet with Nr. 2. The workflow is so good: you just need a laptop and you can produce whereever you are. And I love the total recall thing. Btw: the synth collection sounds amazing and comes with a lot of new instruments in every version. Regards from Cologne.
I’ve used Arturia for a long time now (since 2009 if you can believe it). I’ve been very pleased with what they have offered over the years and they are featured in pretty much every release I’ve done (both as The Spangle Maker and キラヨシ).
I own a lot of modern synths and drum machines, some vintage gear and countless plugins. I only bought selected vintage pieces for sentimental reasons, but sonically, plugins have been able to replace them for a while now. I decided to pass on some of the old machines on my list in favor of plugins and controller’s lately, because they do the job.
Guitar players have reached a similar crossroad where it's easier to use an emulator like an Axe-FX, Kemper, Helix, Quad Cortex etc than to lug an amp to a gig. Every guitar tone that ever existed in a box that fits in your gig bag. However, the last thing I spent "big money" on was a Roland D-50 that shipped all the way from Vienna (which took two weeks to get here.) I know there's software and boutique clones of it but I just wanted the real experience.
It's about tactile controls, instant accessibility to modulate, and having specific keyboards to play specific sounds. Live manipulation is inspiring. One day, with vr and haptic feedback, well have it all in the vst world!
Great video! Thanks for demonstrating your workflow; its really nice that people like you take the time to explain stuff like this. After having dealt with hardware synths since the M1. The only reason I can think of to purchase a hardware synth would be if you cannot get an accurate software version (I'm thinking of the Korg Z1, and Yamaha AN1x). However, bang for buck is way higher on the VSTs and with all the reasonably priced FX plugins, you can pretty much mold the sound however you like.
I have CZ101 keyboard which I bought from someone for only 50 cents. I also bought a Drumulator for 50 cents as well. Not bad for a dollar. A friend of my borrowed the Drumulator, but it was never returned. Great work on your track. It is aurally exciting!
I liked “aurally exciting” definition. :) Jokes aside, I remember that I have used Aural Exciter FX in some digital devices (mostly Yamaha because they licensed that technology) to make sound more “vintage”.
With Arturia since v2.0 (only could afford fave sounds of Mini and ARP2600 at that time). Over years many of your videos Espen, inspired me to get to V Collection. Last time after enjoying your Live show. Cool to see you playing it, learned few things. Now decade later I enjoy playing Model D and ARP2600 in a flesh, but V synths always part of my tracks. And hey, nice pick of a song to play wth computer ❤ synth…. or the other way around 😊
I produce a lot of 80s instrumentals and backing tracks for my channel (feel free to check it out!) - it's also my favourite era for music - and I've been considering the Arturia V collection for some time. I usually create an approximation to the original synths using a lot of Logic's stock plugins, such as RetroSynth and ES2, which I think, with a bit of careful listening, programming and tweeking, do a great job of emulating vintage synths from the 80s. Dexed's free DX7 VST is also excellent. However, with Arturia's half price Black Friday sale now on and your video, Espen, I think my arm may finally have been twisted to pull the trigger on this collection. To get all those synths, and more besides, for $249, is an incredible deal. Thanks for helping me make my mind up on this one! And I love your tunes by the way - they're so authentic they take me right back to my teenage years in the 80s - happy times! Keep up the good work 🙂
i tend to get lost with so many instruments and so many presets lol. Its great that you can hear (in your head) the sound you want BEFORE and look for it after, instead of just checking all sounds chasing for something. :)
I have used Lots of Vst Instruments for my music, but I was never really satisfied, in the last few years I have started using old synth gear more and more, and less vsts. And yes it works a lot better. No, the workflow isnt more complicated! Its easier with Hardware, it depends on your workflow! And, it makes me much more creative and gives me more and better ideas! If you have 5000 presets, your music is getting not better! Its getting worse, because searching sounds is not making music! A piano Player has only one sound - the piano, and He does great music! Because concentation to the Instrument is the most important. Searching sounds is like playing a game, but making music is different, and yes it is more work, less fun but better music! So for me, the Hardware dx7 with its 32 presets is more worth than having Vst FM emulator with 1 Million Sounds but none sounds like the old 12 bit dx7..... but the music is the most important! For me, I found out, no Vst, no Software Instruments, but Hardware stuff from the 70ties, 80ties and 90ties is great. Nö midi no Vst? No problem, I can play with my hands, no Arpeggiator no problem, I play the seq myself. Live isnt that easy, but if you fight, it gets easier! You should remember, all the easy ways are often shit, so try hard if necessary, and often it is necessary...... 😮😅
I appreciate the sentiment but most of these synths are much less reliable than a modern day computer. Especially considering their age. Do they sound better? probably, but they're clearly not more reliable.
I gotta say, I look very pragmatic at it. I know that just to name e few examples, eg the CS- 80 in Arturia is a good recreation, that surely don't react anywhere near the real thing. If you set it as close to the settings on the real thing, but if you work with the settings you can get pretty close from the demo's I've seen between the two, and since there is no way 99% of us will ever get access to a real SC-80. Jupiter 8 or god forbid it a working Fairlight, The Arturia V-Collection is pretty amazing. Add a Korg Collection to it and you have access to a great collection of both digital and analog classics, and since nobody of us, or at least many of us don't own any of the originals beside the most common ones like the DX-7 just to name one, I see no problem in using VST's. It's propably more down to how closely we can replicate how this was recorded back in the days how close we can get to that true analog recording sound. Let the nitty pitty arguing aside and just make some good music with it 😀
Sounds so close and so good it’s a no-brainer to use VSTs when recording IMO. I used to be a hardcore hardware guy, but plugins are so good today, it’s insane.
I think its more interesting that hes using new technology now as it opens up a lot more options for video content, tracks and inspiration for the viewers. The only downside with plugins is that you have to be very careful not to overload the mix as its so easy adding more and more layers and effects, you have to get into the mindset of the type of time period you are trying to recreate otherwise it starts sounding muddy very quickly and you can lose your way.
What makes analog sound an analog sound? There’s so many effects plugins that do achieve this that there’s no way to discern anymore. You need a talented producer that’s all.
That's why I'm hybrid in my studio... Best of both worlds IMO...... Lot's of hardware and lots of VSTs.... If I can't create something awesome with that then shame on me!!! :)
Arturia’s Vcollection . Gforce’s OB-E ,OB-X ,SEM ,Minimonsta 2 . Synapse Audio’s Legend , Obsession . Sonic Charge’s Microtonic . Korg & Roland’s plug-in packages . Waldorf’s Attack . SURGE XT . VCV Rack . With Effects plugins from Valhalla , Eventide , Line6 , and SineVibes have all saved me much space and cash ( not to mention the electric bill ) for my little studio . After going from lots of a frames and 19in racks to all in the box before VST was really ready in the early 00s . Now landing in much smaller hybrid set up plugins have come a long way to a point I can’t shun them again .
Yeah, I bet a lot of people aren't running their traps about VSTIs anymore. Anyone that thinks a hardware synth has the same processor power a PC or MAC has, isn't being honest with themselves and are pretty much purist snobs.
Great video Espen. Very nicely arranged, some great tips here, and nice not to get into the softsynth bashing common amongst hardware fans. As you say, not about cloning, it's about getting the sounds you like. That said, try u-he's Repro and Synapse The Legend if you haven't already. Stunning 'organic' sound from these instruments. cheers!
A really good song, well done and nicely arranged. Nice sounds. I am still amazed that you are using an older version of Nuendo/Cubase. Have you been thinking of upgrading your DAW now that you have V-Collection 9, the integration in versions 10 and up of Cubase/Nuendo is really good... all in the Computer. Of course you need a powerful computer to run some software Synth. I use V-Collection almost all the time as it is really good! You have selected really good sounds from the V-Collection. Snyggt jobbat Espen!!
Thanks! I recently did a video about my old daw and my old PC and why it's more than enough for my needs, for my daily work. I do have more modern computers as well for things like newer versions. I don't use these for a DAW though, just as a vehicle for running VSTs, as I show in this video. Which I then record like any other hardware synth, into my old machine. ;-)
Great song, Espen! I was actually really hoping that you would dive into Arturia's plugins and I'm glad to see that you have. I have the V Collection 9 and I'm hoping that you will create soundbanks for Arturia!
I wish I had the money to get a real Synclavier, Fairlight, Emulator II, CS-80, etc. I would also need to fund a team of technicians to keep everything up and running. I would also need a huge studio space to keep them all in. As I have neither, I am very happy with the Arturia collections. Plus, my hardware synths don’t have (to the best of my knowledge) have virtual versions. Matrixbrute, JD-800, TS-10 and a V-Synth. Thanks for the breakdown of your piece, by the way.
I love synths, whether hardware or software, but it took me buying hardware to eventually get my head around programming in either domain. Right now, due to space requirements and humidity issues (even cables start going moldy in the region I live 🙈) I'm leaning more towards software. In terms of analogue sound, the best VST in my experience is a new one called Infinite Flow by Silen. They really nailed modelling imperfections, drift, slop etc., and give a lot of control over such things.
Plugins are so good nowadays!! (I'm not tryna take away any credit from your talent Espen). We've come such a long way with software synths technology.
The track is completely sounds like 80. But you really nailed 80s drums with whole nuances. The drums are generally most important part. If you can’t get the right sound it feels like something missing. If sounds are well but the arrangement is not ? same again it still does not work. Your drums totally belongs 80s to my ear. Thank you. Please keep sharing you experiences and knowledge. So inspiring🙏🏻
@@EspenKraft and you definitly made it. I would like to see a detailed video about 80s drums. Have you seen inphonik Rx1200 plugin? It is emulator of EMU SP1200. And Gforce Dmx took out. I would like to see you use them on a track like you did with arturia here. It is not to easy find right sound. When i download a sample of 808 i see it does not sound to me what i hear on the tracks. Probably i miss something that there are post process or different layers i believe. Thanks again. Your channel is so good. It becames a source to check when you need an information about 80s synth based music. 🙏🏻
The drums here are a mix of some from the V-collection and many from my own custom samples. It's all about the layering and processing. I'd be happy to try out any of the libraries/plug-ins you mention, but I'm not going to buy them to try them. I never do that. I have all the drum sounds I need so spending money on more is out of the question. They'd have to give me a licence for me to do that. ;-)
@@EspenKraft Yes i can understand. It would waste of money if you already have. I bought because i don't have these old gears or sample libraries from them. I have Addictive Drum Machine ADpak but i could not resist to buy these two machine's VSTs when i saw. I hope those manifacturers realize how you can show up their product in the right content. Thank you again.
hi Espen, i have the previous v 8 collection version, wich has almost all of the legacy gear, and to answer your question, yes, they sound exactly like the hardware, thanx to their special way of emulating analog gear, i even tested my juno 60 against the juno 6V and they sounded the same, however, the plugins can be more pure, that you can change in the bar below the instrument cheers Espen
I don't think they're spot on, but that doesn't matter to me at all. What matters is that I'm happy with what comes out and that it works in a mix. That's what I use plugin synths for. Great value for money.
I have many songs in my back catalogue that people think is hardware, but it's all software. I often get compliments of about the texture and 3d soundstage. Only because they see hardware in the video to it. It's only because we judge from what we SEE. ;-)
I don't really know how to take your comment. I judge with what I hear not what I see. I too have a large collection of vintage analog hardware synth and drum machines as well as almost every virtual synth out there . . To me and my ears , hardware wins 80 to 90% of the time compared to their VI emu. I'm not saying Arturia is bad, I think they ate doing a tremendous job, but it's sounds different to my ears. If it works for you that's all what really matters. To me the gap is still too important to ditch my HW in 2023 as far as analog vs emu are concern but I totraly admit that some Vi' are amazing and used dayli One question tho why would you use a Vi and pretend it's the hardware when you have the real HW?
No, that's not what I do. I make music VIDEOS. In that I use a lot of different keyboards and synths when I play the parts. Miming to what you hear. But in doing so, a lot of people take that as the actual synth used in the music and they compliment the synths saying that it sounds sooo much better than software. When in fact, it's software they're hearing. So, and not taking part with either software or hardware ( I use both), people believe what they SEE, not what they hear.
If your tracks are created by "Okay I need a minimoog bass, prophet 5 lead, rhodes/b3 chords, 808 drums, fairlight ahhhhh, emulater shakazucchini... Yes.
You are recording through an audio interface? Audient that is? In that case it goes through an analog line/mic input amp and it will sound like analog.
Yeah if you can't afford an audio interface you should pack it up immediately. Having said that, I have about 2K in monitors. It's very expensive to start, but once you have a Scarlett or higher and a nice set of monitors, everything else should run around 2K-3K. In other words you can have a very nice digital studio for just under 10K, that compares or better than any in house recording. The best part is not having to route cables all throughout the room, the need for sound dampening material is minimal (45° & 90° corners only), and a mixer is almost not needed at all if you're using a daw for recording. In other words a small office will do. You might need a booth for vocals, but I don't do vocals.
Great video! I own the V Collection 9. To me, it sounds about 90% as good as recordings of the real hardware, and the real hardware of all of this stuff in mint shape would cost you six figures... so it's a no brainer. 90% is great for the majority of us. Nothing wrong with hardware, but for the synth sounds you need and can't afford, this stuff fills the gap perfectly fine.
Even if you could afford the 100 thousand dollars it would take you to assemble the 20+ iconic synths available in the v collection. You would need another 25 thousand dollar mixer to use them all. What the v collection represents is a studio in a box. For $300 bucks black friday. It's a no brainer to add to any musicians arsenal of sound generation. It's insane value for the money. Especially on sale.
I think at some point the sound of emulations might replace the sound of the original in listener's minds, an extreme and possibly sacrilegious example would be if you asked a Whitney Houston fan what an electric piano sounds like, they're probably going to think DX7 instead of Rhodes.
I get the impression that the Spotify version is more compressed than the version here on you tube. I like this youtube version better. That being said, I do like the V collection 9 its so much more convenient than dealing with real synths, but comparing the Arturia Prophet 5 to my Sequential Prophet 10 rev 4 the real prophet shines with its analog quirkiness.
Here you're hearing the raw mix, unmastered. And yes, compared side by side there is differences between hardware and software. That's not what this video was about.
Best mr Craft,have a yamaha ys 100 synth.have just a problem.When i edit a preset sound,and want to store i into the user memory,the next day it has disapeard,though am able to store the new sound on a Ram card.Do you know perhaps what could be the reason of the problem? Friendly Greetings!
I use Roland Cloud with the Legendary synths collection, it sounds glorious and I did my last "CD" with only that. I wouldn't actually ditch my real vintage synths because they are too much fun. Soft synths have come a long way but I used Bitheadz Retro-AS1 in the late 90's and that is still an excellent virtual synth, but you need a mid to late 90's mac to run it.
Espen, the difference when you listen to songs canned with VST is that you know immediately that there was no hardware involved, the sound is so different!
Nope. The difference is only in the workflow for those making the music. That can make a difference. When I record the output of one computer hosting the VST, through a preamp and then recording that to another computer's DAW there's no way you can tell by sound alone.
It sounds ultra clinical and uniform vs a mixture of gear that has its own sonic quirks and audio DACs with noise etc. Also using lots of hardware leads to a more custom feel and sound, and often "happy accidents" leading to interesting bits of music in the songs.
I would say for the vast majority of us, vintage hardware is dead. Companies have been making emulations of vintage keyboards for years now, and they’ve only gotten better and better. You’ll find well maintained vintage synths in some professional studios or the homes of enthusiasts, but the rest don’t have the space or the money for that gear, not to mention the cost and difficulty of repairs and maintaining them. That’s why emulations like these are SO popular. An enthusiast might be able to hear subtle differences when played solo, but in the middle of a mix, I dare anyone to hear the difference.
Nice demonstration and presentation but I'd think twice before usin' plug-in(s) & gettin' rid of any hardware but that's just me¿and i propose tooo suppose TEHO ,as always: ur still the best EK thanx again dude
Thanks, really enjoyable video. Some of the most iconic hardware synths have more meticulously modelled software versions than those in the Arturia V Collection. I like V collection for the power and variety and especially like the MS-20, and the digital ones like SQ-80, Casio CZ. But for classic analogue, there are better available that are so very close in sound to the vintage units. Like Synapse The Legend, Synapse Obsession, Softube Model 80, AudioRealism Bassline 3, G-Force OB-E & SEM. Repro sounds more like the real thing than the Arturia Prophet too. If you aren't set on replicating classic synths, Diva sounds better than most of the emulations in the V Collection too. I don't think Arturia have the best emulations, they seem to go more for breadth of options than depth of sound.
Very nice and creative track Espen! Thank you for sharing hè process of creation. The way you use the plugin ‘s, as “real” instruments that you also record that way sounds great. To me is shows that it is possible to make great music with a set of affordable plugins, in the box , on a laptop. I think the way you created this song probably sounds a bit less “sterile” (I hate that sort of classifications, but wouldn’t know else tho say that), but boy, it’s a great time for young musicians to grow up! When I was in my early twenties in the first half of the eighties, synth’s were not really affordable, certainly not polyphonic synths. I was lucky my parents bought a JX-3P 😊
I totally believe that soundwise you can't go wrong using plugins. But is it as much fun? Did the computer stand in the way of your creativity compared to working on a real DX7 or Juno?
If you've seen some of my longer in-depth videos about how I compose you know I'm composing songs on a piano. Very old school. When it comes to arranging, it's mostly already fleshed out on that piano. Then it's more a job of finding sounds I like, or make them. In this case I treated and recorded those sounds almost as from a regular hardware synth, played by hand and mixed in the DAW. So the computer isn't more or less used than what I'd normally do. Would this production have sounded different using only hardware? Yes it would have. Would it have sounded "better"? Who knows? That's up to the people listening.
This got me thinking of keyboard LIVE musicians...Can I ditch all my vintage synths and use plug-in emulations instead? I will ask Kebu this question since only a "Hand Full" like him in today's Synth world can do what he does Live on stage. Stay tune.
If you could go back in time to the 80's with macbook pros full of plugins like arturia , softube , gforce ... no one would even hesitate to stop using hardware .Back then they had great musiciens with primitive limited technology , we have the opposite problem today
100% Agree with this comment.
We really didn't know how good we had it in the 80s...
Great musicians and great songwriters I might add. ;-)
I am DAWLESS and am conpletely agree with you✌🏻
I do think I know what you mean, and I think I don't disagree with the spirit of it. If you are talking about popular music, chart music, music that is massively consumed. But, on the other hand, the standard of professional musicians is higher now than it was in the 1980s. The skill of the best young musicians today would frighten their equivalent in the 1980s; the professional level has actually raised a lot. But yes, you'd never know that by what musicians and music actually gets pushed out to the masses these days.
@@JSMCPN I never seen a daw..sorry..✌🏻😜🎛️
I think that nowadays, it comes down to what workflow inspire you the most and enables you to get things done. Personally I often use plugins as prototype sounds while putting the tracks together and building the structure of the song. After I'll do some sound design and some of the tracks will be played by hardware synths if I can come up with a patch that sounds better than the prototype sound. However more and more tracks end up staying on the plugin as it's not automatic that I'll be able to come up with a better patch on a hardware synth. So to me I don't really care if the final track is done with a hardware synth vs a plugin I use the tools that gives me the best result.
Thing is, when you want to play your track live. Would you bring computer or hardware instruments?I like hardware for various reasons, but I don't have money or space for all synthesisers I would like to have. So, plug-ins are my only option for the most part.
@@303machine Well, to play live, I would gravitate more towards using a workstation type keyboard like a Yamaha Montage or Roland Phantom where all the synths and plugins that were used in the studio recording are sampled except maybe for one mono synth like a PRO3 or a Sub37. With a two keyboard setup like that (workstation + mono synth), you have a very reliable and versatile setup that lets you perform live pretty much anything regardless of what instruments you originally used in the studio. Some people don’t mind using a computer on stage but I prefer using a simplified setup while playing live compared to what was originally used for the studio recording.
Awesome clear advice from experience. Thx!
this is how I do it now too, and the end result is selling more and more HW synths that cant contribute something different often enough to justify staying
I actually work the opposite, but probably arrive at about the same place in terms of ratio of hardware to software sound. I usually use hardware for ideation, almost the way I might use an acoustic guitar, away from the computer just playing around, because I feel like I go in more interesting directions that way. When something catches, I'll pull up the DAW and record some stuff...maybe just audio, or maybe audio + midi, then save for later and see how I feel when I come back to it. If I decide to produce, I then start working with VSTs (including/mostly V-Collection). Sometimes the original hardware tracks stay in, but about 75% of the time they get replaced by VSTs because it's just easier to continue to refine and get just the right sound over time. But every now and then that original recording can't be matched, but it's not so much the sound of the hardware vs. VST, but rather it captured better or more nuanced playing, or maybe a happy accident, that I just can't seem to reproduce, which...well, that's what the hardware is all about for me. VSTs have the sound. I just seem to play and think different on a real instrument. (For better or worse.)
Nice t-shirt! Talking of "Japan", I'm extremely fortunate to have 2 members of Japan (Robert Dean and Steve Jansen) play on my forthcoming release "Always, Never."
Thanks! The t-shirt is not in reference to the band, but it's cool that you have them playing though. Congrats.
Espen, great video! I think with the high cost of vintage physical synths, the Arturia Collection v9 is the best option - especially for young musicians on a budget. I sold all my keyboards and synths during the pandemic and have gone totally digital and in-the-box, using all virtual synths. Even live, I’m using all VSTs and MainStage on a MacBook Pro. Awesome portability, plus access to 20,000+ presets at my finger-tips.
Cheers!
Wow, fantastic Espen! Also a great overall gear and song structure tutorial. Thank-you! Arturia's plugins are fantastic!
Cheers!
I've been thinking about going 100% in the box and using something like the Arturia package or Omnisphere ... they sound amazing and are so versatile ... so what did I just do last week? I bought a perfect condition, second hand Yamaha Motif XF6 ... ANOTHER hardware synth.. (sigh) ... for what I paid for it, I could have setup a brilliant VST studio with a dedicated midi controller as well .... old habits die very, very hard.... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
I was listening on my phone, but wow this song is a banger, that chorus is so good and I don't think I could ever notice it was VSTs when everything's put together like that. I already have a few 80s synths like the jx-3p I could never part with, but it just shows how much talent and skill rules over equipment
Many thanks!
If it sounds alright, it is alright.
And my favourite saying is that while we all love hands-on analogue gear, it all ends up digitised in the end.
After a massive stroke last year, business closed and not being able to code anymore I tried to reach out to Arturia (because I now have less than $50 / month) and offered them to make an entire album using V collection X .. obviously I can't afford it, and when nobody reacted I used their free Analog Lab play and did "When You Said bye" .. At least I tried 🙂
Pretty sure they get "offers" like that quite often. ;-) Good to hear you pulled through.
@@EspenKraft Hehe yeah, their sounds are amazing .. thanks to you I got a preview :-)
Anything you make, either vintage gear or new, is always top notch quality. I’m excited to see what you do going forward with all the new gear. You are a very talented musician so you can effectively use any tool.
Cheers man!
I bet the track sounds really good, cant wait to listen to it!
Glad to see you going over to "The Dark Side" LOL.
Blending soft synths with hardware synths is something I've been doing since the mid 80s, and have highly recommended for many years. I've been using VST's since they first came out in my bands. As strictly a live performer, they are pretty hard to beat for transporting to gigs & practice for mimicking the sounds of several bulky, expensive & unreliable hardware classics. Not to mention the gigantic difference in cost. I'm at the point now where software has become so good, I have software clones of all my hardware synths and most of them stay in storage now. The only hardware synth I gig with is my Yamaha MODX (light weight Yamaha Montage), and even that is coming out as a soft synth from Yamaha in 2024 as the new Yamaha Montage M VST (unsure of the name they will use). I still feel a live performer should have at least one modern, powerful hardware synth in their rig as backup to quickly jump to if the computer fails in the middle of a song and needs to be rebooted or something. I'm considering using two laptops with one for back up using A/B MIDI pedal switches to quickly be able to jump from one laptop to the other. If my new Cars tribute band starts playing large theaters, this could be important. For now, I try to have every song setup so I could play it on the MODX alone......if I really had to. It wouldn't sound as good, but could get me through the songs in a jam. Are you familiar with The Cars, an American New Wave band that sold millions of albums in America between 1978 - 1987? Keyboardist Greg Hawk made great use of many classic such such as the Mini Korg, Prophet 5, ARP Solina, Jupiter 8, DX-7, Synclavier and many others.
Of course I know The Cars. ;-)
Heartbeat City is one of favorite albums. "It''s Not The Night" is my jam.
allen&heath zedi-10 audio mixer / interface
Going on stage with a laptop is pretty scary.
@@EspenKraft I wasn't sure if they were much known out of the USA, like one of my favorite bands.....Styx. Have you heard their New Wave album...."Kilroy was here" ? I really enjoyed it, but some older fans didn't like the change to New Wave.
I have been using the V Collection since V collection 3 one of my favorites in the collection is Oberheimer OB-XA sounds like the real one so authentic plus with tuning knob under the hood make is sound vintage and worn. Nice to see you using this collection for me it is the cleanest way to go.
Nice! Considering the original OBXAs break constantly (former owner) I decided to sell mine for the price of a used compact car. Syntronik 2 is another great synth software package
I scored a local documentary and it was my first chance to blend hardware and soft synths. I used a TR-Rack & JV-2080 with U-he and built in Logic Synths. I was really happy with most of the results when blended tastefully.
I have the V-Collection 9 and it has still not being used. I am building a gig rig based on Gig Performer and have installed there all the V-Collection (along some other VSTs) so this video helps me to push the use of the V-Collection sounds on that rig. Thanks for your detailed explanation on how to put them to use in a song, very interesting
Cheers!
Especially the raw power of vintage analogs needs to be tamed, where plugins rather need to be freshed up and deepened (if that's a word) to bring them closer to the originals.
Then there is the airiness in a mix you can never truly achieve using plugins only.
My two cents.
As somone who is new to music production, I am grateful for the existence of these soft synths so that we can experience the sounds of hardware that we can never afford.
I think I just entered a 1980's time machine listening to your music. Thanks Espen awsome sounds. I love Arturia for having so many sounds available at your fingertips, without the space requirements, or a gazillion cords patching everything together. I would still love to be able to own all the old synths Arturia has modelled, but at this point in history would be great dust collectors.✌
Many thanks!
Very nice explanation ❤ Thank you for showing!
Cheers!
The way I see it, there are 2 types of listeners - music lovers or consumer, and music makers or creators.
Of the former, 99+ percent neither know nor care how the music is produced they just know what they like the sound of. The latter will have their preference of whether they appreciate the convenience and speed of production in the box or tactility and sound of external hardware. As time goes on the audible differences between the two will contino timue to shrink with advances in technology, but the feeling of using dedicated hardware can be more inspirational to a lot of musicians.
I personally use both, but find hardware more inspirational.
The problem with soft synths is too much choice. You can get sucked into spending hours searching through thousands of presets before settling for something.
With hardware, it's the opposite. You are limited to what the synth (or effect) can physically do with it's single "instance"
I like to work with those "limitations" and try to get the most from what it can give. With VSTs, I like to go from an initialised patch and build from there.
I would be really interested in hearing a version of the track recorded with the hardware equivalent, where possible, and your thoughts on the process.
Cheers!
This is not an experiment as far as the result is concerned. This IS the final mix of this song and it's going onto my album coming in 2024. Re-recording is not something I'm going to do. The song is done and I'm on to the next. ;-)
@@EspenKraft well said Mr. Kraft.
I wasn't suggesting it was an experiment though. Just a thought experiment on my part.
It stands up on its own and is most worthy.
Cheers!
Sure. If it was an experiment to compare I would have done it, but I truly wanted to make a complete track for my album using this bundle for all the synth sounds only. And nothing more. ;-)
@@EspenKraft and it went very well.💯
Now, let's have no more of this silly talk about selling your beautiful collection 😉
Do you think you'd make an entire album using the soft versions or maybe just use them for equipment that you don't currently have hardware versions of, like maybe Synclavier or Fairlight etc? Or in a live situation? I'm guessing not for the last.
Live I will continue to drive tracks from my MacBook, but I will play the rest from hardware synths.
Like I say in this video, my new album will be made from using old and new tech. Like I've always done. Almost all my music have plugins in them. And vintage synths. I never think much about it. ;-)
I’m glad you were able to get all the classic tones you’ve made a name for yourself with from that Arturia plug-in, Espen. For my part, I would only think of taking that tack and turning loose of my own vintage (and reissue) pieces if I could condense all of it even further. If (my equivalent of) the MacBook, the PreSonus, the external DAW, etc could be consolidated into (such an instrument model as) the Akai MPC Key and it could cover the use of both the soft synths, the sequencing and the use of live mics for my acoustic instruments & voice, then *that* could be a game changer.
That’s why I was pretty disappointed when I learned that Open Labs fell through. The design of the NeKo was brilliant, and it should have been allowed to evolve.
Espen you have done an awesome job with these vsts. I love the track. It sounds authentic to that sweet 80s sound! Knowing your hardware synths help with making their vst counterparts sound like they should. Great job!
Many thanks! :)
Beyond the cozy glow of old hardware, the tactile sensation, and the nostalgia - I prefer the instant recall of VST's. I just love being able to open a project I haven't worked in months in Reaper, and have all the VST synth settings exactly how I left them without having to manually dial in presets and knobs.
Great video and tutorial, a really useful look at music making, thanks. You really do own that 80's sound!!
I get the feeling that for a lot of us from the 80's who wanted to make music and could not afford to ... now find our selves transported to Wiily Wonkas music factory and we never have to go back home ... we just have to work out what lick to make first!!! 😉😅😅
Great work! I think hardware vintage synths rocks. Arturia doesn't have the same quality and beauty of sound..
If Espen had told you this track was recoded only with vintage synths, you wouldn't even doubt him. Modern, high quality VSTs such as Arturia V Collection are so close to hardware (especially after you process them) that it's not even worth arguing about anymore.
@@grindhouseglitchI agree. I have used hardware synths since 1985 and started using (mostly) Arturia's products years ago alongside hardware and I will never look back. You could spend ages making geeky A/B comparisons, which may well be favourable to hardware synths but, in a mix, you wouldn't know the difference. Besides, listeners / audiences couldn't care less. As much as I enjoyed the vintage synths I once owned, I can no longer afford any and I have limited space so I'm happy with what I have now. Which, of course, doesn't prevent me from enjoying Espen's amazing videos, which are a fantastic trip down Memory Lane for me!
You are used to the chorus of the Roland synths he uses in hardware and that is a big part of the 80s sound, also the plugins tend to have a lot of reverb by default which can build up quite easily and make everything less upfront, I believe he took that off here though. I also think basslines are better handled by real analogue but its definitely given him a different direction using these plugins, probably a bit more variation due to more options.
@@grindhouseglitch I love vintage synths, but I tend to agree. Though, Arturia V Collection doesn't necessarily have the best VST emulation of every single instrument in it's collection. Pigments is one of the best modern synths (maybe only bested by the more complex and expensive Phase Plant and UVI Falcon). There are better Prophet 5 emulations (Softube, Repro), Moog Emulations (Synapse The Legend), and Oberheim Emulations (G-Force OB-E & SEM, Synapse Obsession). Not that the Arturia's aren't very good, and plenty are really excellent (MS-20, SQ-80). A fair comparison would use the best VST in the market to compare the original. There, the differences between Softube Model 80 and a vintage Prophet 5 are exactly as you describe it (even without processing).
@@grindhouseglitchI feel the defference very clear here. For example, Roland cloud VST Roland D50 - is so great, that I don't hear the difference..
I got the Arturia Juno Chorus for free with my purchase of the MoogerFooger plug-ins, I really like it. This is a company I’m more curious about lately. Great video Espen! Keeping an open mind is great for creativity.
As a man that love vintage synths but with a very limited amount of space these type of plugins are amazing. Hope for more plugins and perhaps comparisons to hardware. The benefit of analog hardware synth is that there are all these knobs and sliders and those a really nice for tweaking and having fun.
I started working with software synths and VST plugins back in the 90's when everybody was using "real" gear and my studio was only a PC and studio monitors. Now I have a wall of vintage synths, mixers and effects because the "soul" od all that wall of equipment cannot be emulated, believe me.
Yes I agree. Vsts have come along way. And espen has recorded and processed this in a way that makes it more hard to distinguish.. but it still feels “ dead“ “stale “ if you’ve come accustomed to hardware recordings... But to the average ear .. they won’t tell much difference. I prefer to stick to hardware.. Because You can still hear and feel some differences or the “ soul” you mentioned . Or as displayed in espens JX8P vs jxp08( boutique) video..there’s still differences..
I am in the same boat. Software in the 90’s and 2000’s, with hardware slowly taking over… I still use software, but mainly for audio processing, mixing and mastering…
Hi @aspenkraft - what a great experiment! I don’t want to ‘invade’ your channel with my channel - but I think that I did a comparisson that is really relevant in this case: I made video’s comparing the Arturia plug-ins with my hardware CS80 and Jupiter 8. Viewers had to guess which was the hardware and which one the plug. I even included a google questionaire. Long story short: around 30 - 40% of synth fans couldn’t hear the difference between hard en software. If you are interested, this is the link: ua-cam.com/video/4-wUodAF6iM/v-deo.htmlsi=zofv6UDvpIC4mDRV - please feel free to remove my post if it’s too ‘spammy’ - that certainly wasn’t my intention! Warm regards from Amsterdam!
I've actually seen this video. Not commented or anything. I could tell them apart on some sounds, on other' I could not. Side by side in a room with both it's more apparent, but in a mix it's very difficult. Sometimes I want the unique hardware in a production because inspiration comes comes from an instrument, while at other times I'm only after a sound and then software will suffice. It changes from time to time, but the RESULT.... that matters mostly to the listener and the casual listener, "normal" people, will listen with their hearts and to them it's totally irrelevant what we used as sound sources. Synth heads will listen with a ton of prejudice and biased perceptions and as such they (we) are bonkers. ;-)
@@EspenKraft we fully agree on this - there is absolute magic in playing the real thing - but it’s just great that all synth fans have access to these instruments and sounds. And I do also mix hardware with software - especially the Vangelis pads by Omnisphere are just spon on. Keep up the good work :-)
I have a lot of old analog synth in my studio. But in my productions I often use the Arturia virtual synths for many years now. Startet with Nr. 2. The workflow is so good: you just need a laptop and you can produce whereever you are. And I love the total recall thing. Btw: the synth collection sounds amazing and comes with a lot of new instruments in every version. Regards from Cologne.
I’ve used Arturia for a long time now (since 2009 if you can believe it). I’ve been very pleased with what they have offered over the years and they are featured in pretty much every release I’ve done (both as The Spangle Maker and キラヨシ).
I own a lot of modern synths and drum machines, some vintage gear and countless plugins. I only bought selected vintage pieces for sentimental reasons, but sonically, plugins have been able to replace them for a while now. I decided to pass on some of the old machines on my list in favor of plugins and controller’s lately, because they do the job.
Until the OS no longer supports them. 🤷♂️
Super video!
Cheers!
Guitar players have reached a similar crossroad where it's easier to use an emulator like an Axe-FX, Kemper, Helix, Quad Cortex etc than to lug an amp to a gig. Every guitar tone that ever existed in a box that fits in your gig bag. However, the last thing I spent "big money" on was a Roland D-50 that shipped all the way from Vienna (which took two weeks to get here.) I know there's software and boutique clones of it but I just wanted the real experience.
It's about tactile controls, instant accessibility to modulate, and having specific keyboards to play specific sounds. Live manipulation is inspiring. One day, with vr and haptic feedback, well have it all in the vst world!
Great video! Thanks for demonstrating your workflow; its really nice that people like you take the time to explain stuff like this.
After having dealt with hardware synths since the M1. The only reason I can think of to purchase a hardware synth would be if you cannot get an accurate software version (I'm thinking of the Korg Z1, and Yamaha AN1x). However, bang for buck is way higher on the VSTs and with all the reasonably priced FX plugins, you can pretty much mold the sound however you like.
Cheers!
You should definitely have a verse about getting your todger stuck in the serial port.
I have CZ101 keyboard which I bought from someone for only 50 cents. I also bought a Drumulator for 50 cents as well. Not bad for a dollar. A friend of my borrowed the Drumulator, but it was never returned. Great work on your track. It is aurally exciting!
I liked “aurally exciting” definition. :)
Jokes aside, I remember that I have used Aural Exciter FX in some digital devices (mostly Yamaha because they licensed that technology) to make sound more “vintage”.
Whoever sold those to use at that price was either mad or desperate.
@@80ssynthfan48 It was more spite than anything. He didn't want his ex wife to get them. Back when he purchased the CZ101, it cost $500. 00.
It doesn´t matter... VST or real...
We love Music & we make Music!
Cool Song Espen... like zyx records in the 80´s 🥰
Cheers!
@Espen - great job of orchestration. It's one thing to have a lot of great sounds, but where to use them and on which phrases us quite another.
Thanks!
Nice "Kraftsmanship" and sounds damn good
Cheers!
There's a lot of great info to glean from your techniques here - production and arrangement in particular. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for saying! :)
Arturia V-Collection is with UHE Diva and TAL Plugins perfect for 80ies and Synthwave tunes.
Cool JAPAN shirt. "Gentlemen Take Polaroids". Thanks for the video Espen.
Cheers!
With Arturia since v2.0 (only could afford fave sounds of Mini and ARP2600 at that time). Over years many of your videos Espen, inspired me to get to V Collection. Last time after enjoying your Live show.
Cool to see you playing it, learned few things. Now decade later I enjoy playing Model D and ARP2600 in a flesh, but V synths always part of my tracks.
And hey, nice pick of a song to play wth computer ❤ synth…. or the other way around 😊
Cheers!
Computer love! Hmm sounds a little familiar to a very good 80s jam😅
Awesome work.
Those Drum sounds are insane!👌🤘👍
I produce a lot of 80s instrumentals and backing tracks for my channel (feel free to check it out!) - it's also my favourite era for music - and I've been considering the Arturia V collection for some time. I usually create an approximation to the original synths using a lot of Logic's stock plugins, such as RetroSynth and ES2, which I think, with a bit of careful listening, programming and tweeking, do a great job of emulating vintage synths from the 80s. Dexed's free DX7 VST is also excellent. However, with Arturia's half price Black Friday sale now on and your video, Espen, I think my arm may finally have been twisted to pull the trigger on this collection. To get all those synths, and more besides, for $249, is an incredible deal. Thanks for helping me make my mind up on this one! And I love your tunes by the way - they're so authentic they take me right back to my teenage years in the 80s - happy times! Keep up the good work 🙂
Cheers!
Excellent! Thank you.
Cheers!
I will buy this album. Great work, Espen.
Thanks! I appreciate it. :)
Fantastic breakdown. Thanks.
Cheers!
i tend to get lost with so many instruments and so many presets lol. Its great that you can hear (in your head) the sound you want BEFORE and look for it after, instead of just checking all sounds chasing for something. :)
I have used Lots of Vst Instruments for my music, but I was never really satisfied, in the last few years I have started using old synth gear more and more, and less vsts. And yes it works a lot better. No, the workflow isnt more complicated! Its easier with Hardware, it depends on your workflow! And, it makes me much more creative and gives me more and better ideas! If you have 5000 presets, your music is getting not better! Its getting worse, because searching sounds is not making music! A piano Player has only one sound - the piano, and He does great music! Because concentation to the Instrument is the most important. Searching sounds is like playing a game, but making music is different, and yes it is more work, less fun but better music! So for me, the Hardware dx7 with its 32 presets is more worth than having Vst FM emulator with 1 Million Sounds but none sounds like the old 12 bit dx7..... but the music is the most important! For me, I found out, no Vst, no Software Instruments, but Hardware stuff from the 70ties, 80ties and 90ties is great. Nö midi no Vst? No problem, I can play with my hands, no Arpeggiator no problem, I play the seq myself. Live isnt that easy, but if you fight, it gets easier! You should remember, all the easy ways are often shit, so try hard if necessary, and often it is necessary...... 😮😅
The plug ins are great as long as your computer is working. Analog will be around as long as mankind has not blown up the world with nukes.
I appreciate the sentiment but most of these synths are much less reliable than a modern day computer. Especially considering their age. Do they sound better? probably, but they're clearly not more reliable.
Catchy tune! The more I listen to it the more I like it. 👍
Awesome. Thanks!
Just recently discovered your channel... awesome contents!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Cheers!
Great track Espen 👍
Thanks Glenn!
I gotta say, I look very pragmatic at it. I know that just to name e few examples, eg the CS- 80 in Arturia is a good recreation, that surely don't react anywhere near the real thing. If you set it as close to the settings on the real thing, but if you work with the settings you can get pretty close from the demo's I've seen between the two, and since there is no way 99% of us will ever get access to a real SC-80. Jupiter 8 or god forbid it a working Fairlight, The Arturia V-Collection is pretty amazing. Add a Korg Collection to it and you have access to a great collection of both digital and analog classics, and since nobody of us, or at least many of us don't own any of the originals beside the most common ones like the DX-7 just to name one, I see no problem in using VST's. It's propably more down to how closely we can replicate how this was recorded back in the days how close we can get to that true analog recording sound. Let the nitty pitty arguing aside and just make some good music with it 😀
Sounds so close and so good it’s a no-brainer to use VSTs when recording IMO. I used to be a hardcore hardware guy, but plugins are so good today, it’s insane.
So long as you don't do a lot of sound design.
they've been so close for a decade now. They still lack that one thing that makes analog sound analog. And Arturia isn't even the best option.
I think its more interesting that hes using new technology now as it opens up a lot more options for video content, tracks and inspiration for the viewers. The only downside with plugins is that you have to be very careful not to overload the mix as its so easy adding more and more layers and effects, you have to get into the mindset of the type of time period you are trying to recreate otherwise it starts sounding muddy very quickly and you can lose your way.
What makes analog sound an analog sound? There’s so many effects plugins that do achieve this that there’s no way to discern anymore. You need a talented producer that’s all.
That's why I'm hybrid in my studio... Best of both worlds IMO...... Lot's of hardware and lots of VSTs.... If I can't create something awesome with that then shame on me!!! :)
Really interesting video, no question Espen you are the 80's brilliant stuff.
Cheers!
Arturia’s Vcollection . Gforce’s OB-E ,OB-X ,SEM ,Minimonsta 2 . Synapse Audio’s Legend , Obsession . Sonic Charge’s Microtonic . Korg & Roland’s plug-in packages . Waldorf’s Attack . SURGE XT . VCV Rack . With Effects plugins from Valhalla , Eventide , Line6 , and SineVibes have all saved me much space and cash ( not to mention the electric bill ) for my little studio . After going from lots of a frames and 19in racks to all in the box before VST was really ready in the early 00s .
Now landing in much smaller hybrid set up plugins have come a long way to a point I can’t shun them again .
Yeah, I bet a lot of people aren't running their traps about VSTIs anymore. Anyone that thinks a hardware synth has the same processor power a PC or MAC has, isn't being honest with themselves and are pretty much purist snobs.
You should try Syntronik 2 Max. It’s a gem for $150
Thank`s for showing
Cheers!
BTW, Computer Love would DEFINITELY have been a top 10 hit if it came out in the 80’s. Excellent work, great composition!
Many thanks for saying ! :)
Great video Espen. Very nicely arranged, some great tips here, and nice not to get into the softsynth bashing common amongst hardware fans. As you say, not about cloning, it's about getting the sounds you like. That said, try u-he's Repro and Synapse The Legend if you haven't already. Stunning 'organic' sound from these instruments. cheers!
Thanks. I'll try them if they give them to me. I don't buy something I don't need. ;-)
A really good song, well done and nicely arranged. Nice sounds. I am still amazed that you are using an older version of Nuendo/Cubase. Have you been thinking of upgrading your DAW now that you have V-Collection 9, the integration in versions 10 and up of Cubase/Nuendo is really good... all in the Computer. Of course you need a powerful computer to run some software Synth. I use V-Collection almost all the time as it is really good! You have selected really good sounds from the V-Collection. Snyggt jobbat Espen!!
Thanks! I recently did a video about my old daw and my old PC and why it's more than enough for my needs, for my daily work. I do have more modern computers as well for things like newer versions. I don't use these for a DAW though, just as a vehicle for running VSTs, as I show in this video. Which I then record like any other hardware synth, into my old machine. ;-)
Great song, Espen! I was actually really hoping that you would dive into Arturia's plugins and I'm glad to see that you have. I have the V Collection 9 and I'm hoping that you will create soundbanks for Arturia!
Cheers!
I wish I had the money to get a real Synclavier, Fairlight, Emulator II, CS-80, etc. I would also need to fund a team of technicians to keep everything up and running. I would also need a huge studio space to keep them all in. As I have neither, I am very happy with the Arturia collections. Plus, my hardware synths don’t have (to the best of my knowledge) have virtual versions. Matrixbrute, JD-800, TS-10 and a V-Synth. Thanks for the breakdown of your piece, by the way.
Cheers!
What a nice track btw! Inspirer's me! Made a track some kind I think also..
I love synths, whether hardware or software, but it took me buying hardware to eventually get my head around programming in either domain.
Right now, due to space requirements and humidity issues (even cables start going moldy in the region I live 🙈) I'm leaning more towards software.
In terms of analogue sound, the best VST in my experience is a new one called Infinite Flow by Silen. They really nailed modelling imperfections, drift, slop etc., and give a lot of control over such things.
Great job! Great song! Great video!
I salute you from Sweden :)
Thanks! :)
Plugins are so good nowadays!! (I'm not tryna take away any credit from your talent Espen). We've come such a long way with software synths technology.
This was nice
Cheers!
The track is completely sounds like 80. But you really nailed 80s drums with whole nuances. The drums are generally most important part. If you can’t get the right sound it feels like something missing. If sounds are well but the arrangement is not ? same again it still does not work. Your drums totally belongs 80s to my ear.
Thank you. Please keep sharing you experiences and knowledge. So inspiring🙏🏻
Thanks! I spend a great deal of time getting those drums as authentic as possible so always happy when someone comment on that. :)
@@EspenKraft and you definitly made it. I would like to see a detailed video about 80s drums. Have you seen inphonik Rx1200 plugin? It is emulator of EMU SP1200. And Gforce Dmx took out. I would like to see you use them on a track like you did with arturia here. It is not to easy find right sound. When i download a sample of 808 i see it does not sound to me what i hear on the tracks. Probably i miss something that there are post process or different layers i believe.
Thanks again. Your channel is so good. It becames a source to check when you need an information about 80s synth based music. 🙏🏻
The drums here are a mix of some from the V-collection and many from my own custom samples. It's all about the layering and processing.
I'd be happy to try out any of the libraries/plug-ins you mention, but I'm not going to buy them to try them. I never do that. I have all the drum sounds I need so spending money on more is out of the question. They'd have to give me a licence for me to do that. ;-)
@@EspenKraft Yes i can understand. It would waste of money if you already have. I bought because i don't have these old gears or sample libraries from them. I have Addictive Drum Machine ADpak but i could not resist to buy these two machine's VSTs when i saw. I hope those manifacturers realize how you can show up their product in the right content.
Thank you again.
hi Espen, i have the previous v 8 collection version, wich has almost all of the legacy gear, and to answer your question, yes, they sound exactly like the hardware, thanx to their special way of emulating analog gear, i even tested my juno 60 against the juno 6V
and they sounded the same, however, the plugins can be more pure, that you can change in the bar below the instrument
cheers Espen
I don't think they're spot on, but that doesn't matter to me at all. What matters is that I'm happy with what comes out and that it works in a mix. That's what I use plugin synths for. Great value for money.
Btw, the song sounds amazing! It really "feels" like Howard Jones or something authentically 80s.
very 80's! I would say this sounds great!
I use vst for my job and hardware for pleasure ....
I like the song as usual but to me it sounds 2D compare to what you do with your hardware. So AFAIK I would keep the hardware and ditch the software
I have many songs in my back catalogue that people think is hardware, but it's all software. I often get compliments of about the texture and 3d soundstage. Only because they see hardware in the video to it. It's only because we judge from what we SEE. ;-)
I don't really know how to take your comment.
I judge with what I hear not what I see. I too have a large collection of vintage analog hardware synth and drum machines as well as almost every virtual synth out there . . To me and my ears , hardware wins 80 to 90% of the time compared to their VI emu. I'm not saying Arturia is bad, I think they ate doing a tremendous job, but it's sounds different to my ears. If it works for you that's all what really matters.
To me the gap is still too important to ditch my HW in 2023 as far as analog vs emu are concern but I totraly admit that some Vi' are amazing and used dayli
One question tho why would you use a Vi and pretend it's the hardware when you have the real HW?
No, that's not what I do. I make music VIDEOS. In that I use a lot of different keyboards and synths when I play the parts. Miming to what you hear. But in doing so, a lot of people take that as the actual synth used in the music and they compliment the synths saying that it sounds sooo much better than software. When in fact, it's software they're hearing.
So, and not taking part with either software or hardware ( I use both), people believe what they SEE, not what they hear.
I enjoyed the "direct memory access" line, but then "show me your interface"? Cheeky!
I like a good cheek.
If your tracks are created by "Okay I need a minimoog bass, prophet 5 lead, rhodes/b3 chords, 808 drums, fairlight ahhhhh, emulater shakazucchini... Yes.
Luckily I don't compose that way.
@@EspenKraft You're the real deal and I have this software. Not trying to hate 👍
You are recording through an audio interface? Audient that is? In that case it goes through an analog line/mic input amp and it will sound like analog.
I thought the same
Yeah if you can't afford an audio interface you should pack it up immediately. Having said that, I have about 2K in monitors. It's very expensive to start, but once you have a Scarlett or higher and a nice set of monitors, everything else should run around 2K-3K. In other words you can have a very nice digital studio for just under 10K, that compares or better than any in house recording. The best part is not having to route cables all throughout the room, the need for sound dampening material is minimal (45° & 90° corners only), and a mixer is almost not needed at all if you're using a daw for recording. In other words a small office will do. You might need a booth for vocals, but I don't do vocals.
Great video! I own the V Collection 9. To me, it sounds about 90% as good as recordings of the real hardware, and the real hardware of all of this stuff in mint shape would cost you six figures... so it's a no brainer. 90% is great for the majority of us. Nothing wrong with hardware, but for the synth sounds you need and can't afford, this stuff fills the gap perfectly fine.
Even if you could afford the 100 thousand dollars it would take you to assemble the 20+ iconic synths available in the v collection. You would need another 25 thousand dollar mixer to use them all. What the v collection represents is a studio in a box. For $300 bucks black friday. It's a no brainer to add to any musicians arsenal of sound generation. It's insane value for the money. Especially on sale.
I think at some point the sound of emulations might replace the sound of the original in listener's minds, an extreme and possibly sacrilegious example would be if you asked a Whitney Houston fan what an electric piano sounds like, they're probably going to think DX7 instead of Rhodes.
Nice song!
Cheers!
There’s a number of plugins that most listeners probably couldn’t identify as hardware vs software in a blind test.
I get the impression that the Spotify version is more compressed than the version here on you tube. I like this youtube version better. That being said, I do like the V collection 9 its so much more convenient than dealing with real synths, but comparing the Arturia Prophet 5 to my Sequential Prophet 10 rev 4 the real prophet shines with its analog quirkiness.
Here you're hearing the raw mix, unmastered.
And yes, compared side by side there is differences between hardware and software. That's not what this video was about.
Best mr Craft,have a yamaha ys 100 synth.have just a problem.When i edit a preset sound,and want to store i into the user memory,the next day it has disapeard,though am able to store the new sound on a Ram card.Do you know perhaps what could be the reason of the problem?
Friendly Greetings!
Sounds like a dead battery.
@@EspenKraft thanks,had the symbol Bt on it
I use Roland Cloud with the Legendary synths collection, it sounds glorious and I did my last "CD" with only that. I wouldn't actually ditch my real vintage synths because they are too much fun. Soft synths have come a long way but I used Bitheadz Retro-AS1 in the late 90's and that is still an excellent virtual synth, but you need a mid to late 90's mac to run it.
Espen, the difference when you listen to songs canned with VST is that you know immediately that there was no hardware involved, the sound is so different!
Nope. The difference is only in the workflow for those making the music. That can make a difference. When I record the output of one computer hosting the VST, through a preamp and then recording that to another computer's DAW there's no way you can tell by sound alone.
But a lot of these are synths he doesnt necessarily use in hardware so the sound would be different.
It sounds ultra clinical and uniform vs a mixture of gear that has its own sonic quirks and audio DACs with noise etc. Also using lots of hardware leads to a more custom feel and sound, and often "happy accidents" leading to interesting bits of music in the songs.
I would say for the vast majority of us, vintage hardware is dead. Companies have been making emulations of vintage keyboards for years now, and they’ve only gotten better and better. You’ll find well maintained vintage synths in some professional studios or the homes of enthusiasts, but the rest don’t have the space or the money for that gear, not to mention the cost and difficulty of repairs and maintaining them.
That’s why emulations like these are SO popular. An enthusiast might be able to hear subtle differences when played solo, but in the middle of a mix, I dare anyone to hear the difference.
Nice demonstration and presentation but I'd think twice before usin' plug-in(s) & gettin' rid of any hardware but that's just me¿and i propose tooo suppose TEHO ,as always: ur still the best EK thanx again dude
Thanks! It's a rhetorical question.
Thanks, really enjoyable video. Some of the most iconic hardware synths have more meticulously modelled software versions than those in the Arturia V Collection. I like V collection for the power and variety and especially like the MS-20, and the digital ones like SQ-80, Casio CZ. But for classic analogue, there are better available that are so very close in sound to the vintage units. Like Synapse The Legend, Synapse Obsession, Softube Model 80, AudioRealism Bassline 3, G-Force OB-E & SEM. Repro sounds more like the real thing than the Arturia Prophet too. If you aren't set on replicating classic synths, Diva sounds better than most of the emulations in the V Collection too. I don't think Arturia have the best emulations, they seem to go more for breadth of options than depth of sound.
I couldn't care less what is regarded as "best". If I find a sound I like I'd use it. Period. Is BMW better than Audi? Same thing.
Boss tune! If I could offer one suggestion-it would be to save the ‘response’ of the computer ‘voice’ until later in the song.
The song is done. ;-)
Very nice and creative track Espen! Thank you for sharing hè process of creation. The way you use the plugin ‘s, as “real” instruments that you also record that way sounds great. To me is shows that it is possible to make great music with a set of affordable plugins, in the box , on a laptop. I think the way you created this song probably sounds a bit less “sterile” (I hate that sort of classifications, but wouldn’t know else tho say that), but boy, it’s a great time for young musicians to grow up! When I was in my early twenties in the first half of the eighties, synth’s were not really affordable, certainly not polyphonic synths. I was lucky my parents bought a JX-3P 😊
Thanks! The song is composed on a piano as always. That's hardware. ;-)
I totally believe that soundwise you can't go wrong using plugins. But is it as much fun? Did the computer stand in the way of your creativity compared to working on a real DX7 or Juno?
If you've seen some of my longer in-depth videos about how I compose you know I'm composing songs on a piano. Very old school. When it comes to arranging, it's mostly already fleshed out on that piano. Then it's more a job of finding sounds I like, or make them. In this case I treated and recorded those sounds almost as from a regular hardware synth, played by hand and mixed in the DAW. So the computer isn't more or less used than what I'd normally do. Would this production have sounded different using only hardware? Yes it would have. Would it have sounded "better"? Who knows? That's up to the people listening.
I prefer the software over the chunky synths I once owned.
I only use hardware but if it sounds good and has a good user interface, it is good, be it hardware or software. There is no right and wrong in this.
This got me thinking of keyboard LIVE musicians...Can I ditch all my vintage synths and use plug-in emulations instead? I will ask Kebu this question since only a "Hand Full" like him in today's Synth world can do what he does Live on stage. Stay tune.
4 full racks of master keyboards would be quite spectacular I think.
Still have and play my alpha Juno 2 and the slow pwm