We Need To Talk About Pokemon Stadium
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
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edited by adineri ► / adineri23
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#SmashBros #Drama #tophbbq
Amusingly enough the reason it was tough to implement with rollback isn't because of desyncs. It's actually for the same reason music is off: it loads from the disc mid-game.
If a disc read happens at the same time as a rollback, the game crashes because memory gets corrupted. I'm sure it's possible to fix but it would be an unknown amount of hard investigative work that just never felt like a priority.
Accidentally changing the meta forever.
@@Lumpycpu Or intentionally, who has the expertise to verify?
Yo but... please? Unfrozen stadium is not only hype, but is also great for casual games (hell, I'm already using a code for items 😘)
@@berekexer8158 Idk why people say stuff like this lol. Our code is completely open source, people that visit our Discord have independently confirmed it.
Anyone can disable the codes that disable music and independently confirm it too. (Though you must be playing against an opponent with fairly high ping)
As a viewer and non-player I love unfrozen stadium but totally understand why people would hate it. Players of both games have moved away from the idea of stages introducing new variables except for blast zones and platform layout. With more prestige and opportunity in Smash, people wanna remove as many outside influences as possible so they have the best chance of winning. I'm personally of the mind that more unique stage layouts encourage quick thinking and adaptability, but you could take that argument all the way to legalizing items if you wanted, so whatever lol
Nice to see Coney Baloney here
monkey yeahh
I would be really upset if they ever permanently freeze stadium, imo one of the biggest problems with ultimate is how boring the stage list is to play on, and I would hate to see Melee's stage list get just a little less interesting
Coney spitting facts
Yeah Dog. F*cking True
The funniest thing about the Mang0/BBB set is that Bobby just needed to tech once out of the many opportunities and then the combo probably wouldn't have happened
a different cool combo would have happened is all
It is tough sometimes, you can get locked out of your techs
@@xatnu was about to say, I don't know the frames on tech lock-out but I know it's a thing
@@nicholaswomack9027 when you press L or R you get 20 frames where you'll tech if you bounce, but if you press it again in the next 40 frames you won't tech, i.e lockout period is 2/3rds of a second
He needed 1 of the 3 techs off the tree to tech wall jump then he's basically out of that combo. 100% agree. Lockout or not. If the nontransformation is normalized, players will get better at this again. They haven't needed to since Slippi had to freeze stadium out of necessity.
As an old spectator that’s watched Melee for the last 8-9 years, regular stadium has led to some of the best Melee I’ve ever seen.
It snows during football games u gotta learn to adapt to ur environment
@@jay-ks1ex This. Melee is literally called “E-sports”.
How the hell do Slippi kids think Melee was played pre-online?
@@johnkramer2144 fr
@@jay-ks1ex You remember that set of Plup vs Mango at an old Summit on Pokémon Stadium? Anytime I think of good Stadium matches, that one comes to mind.
If we're gonna freeze Stadium to make it more tournament-viable, then why not mod other stages to bring them back into the legal stages list? I'm sure there's at least one or two whose original justification for removal from the stage list can now be patched.
It MIGHT be possible in the distant future. (As I remember leffen suggesting it in the 6-4 podcast with Zain and Mang0 when slippi was new) But as it stands, its way harder to get a scene to agree to unban something vs to ban it (which is already hard but the point is its harder to go back)
Though, obviously...circumstances have changed. But you'd have to find a universal way to do it as to not cause controversy. This on top of TOs not wanting the headache of coming up with new striking rules after unbanning some stages ect.
So yes...in theory its possible and it might see experimentation one day. But if not enough interest is put into the idea, its just not gonna happen unfortunately lol
This is a great point; slightly mod all stages to make them playable (or at least s few!)
These slippi kids never been in a pit fight and it really shows
As a spectator I love unfrozen stadium, it definitely gives off that Phantom Menace Maul fight scene. Mang0 did some very entertaining things during transformation at Big House 10. It also makes for memorable moments like the one time PPMD tried to inch in closer at Armada and got up smashed for it, then seeing PPMD chuckled at the whole reaction.
Lord vs S2J during the Rock transformation was one of the hype moments in Pokémon Stadium. Pit fight into an off-stage battle.
As a spectator I love unfrozen stadium
Hell as a melee player I love it too but yeah especially as a spectator. So many hype moments
As a regular tournament attendor/ peach main i very much hate it
As someone who actually plays the game…KEEP IT FROZEN THIS AINT MARIO PARTY
@@cann3913 who do you main
@@gamertree6665 Spacies😁
My main complaint with unfrozen isn't even the stage, its just the fact that slippi is frozen. Just an unfortunate situation
If there's a way to toggle making the stage frozen/unfrozen for Slippi on direct mode at least, that'd help in people learning how to adapt to the transformations
People have talked about banning/freezing Stadium since before Slippi, but it's definitely become much more of a contentious issue now that we've gotten used to frozen Stadium. It's like if we now unbanned wobbling after a few years of not having it; the flip flop is what makes it divisive. I personally would much rather have unfrozen Stadium than no Stadium at all; there's already so few legal stages and there isn't a matchup where the transformations alone make it unwinnable for a character imo
Ngl i think they should port some PM stages in mainly Metroid Lab and Green Hill as they have moving platforms. Smashville and Town and City aremt terrible either
@@illford I remember in like 2020 there was a mod with a bunch of new stages, it was a cool idea but getting the community to agree on legality is a nightmare so they didn't take off
I always thought it would be cool if the Grass and Water transformations were added to the stage list, as in they are permanently frozen on those transformations. I think most people would agree grass and water are the least problematic of the 4 transformations. Probably a lot more difficult to implement than just freezing stadium, but I'm sure someone could make a gecko code that could add this.
I think we should start focusing on reimplementing things into melee with fixes instead of continuously trimming the fat from the game and draining its soul (like freezing stadium).
you can already play on each of the transformations on 20XX so its shouldnt be too hard to have at tournaments
Damn fox apologists
I agree 100%, Big Blue should be legal😂 I feel like unfrozen Stadium is wildly unpopular, but it has produced some of the hypest moments in the game’s history. Watching Mang0 beanbagging BBB off the tree in this clip was actually sick. Of course MANG has more experience on the unfrozen stage, but I’m with you on putting some more Melee back into the game as we evolve.
@Jacob Balzer unfrozen stadium isnt unpopular for the stage layout as much as it is for being buggy
The one thing I will add to the argument is what to do with going through the stadium floor.
The only legitimate argument, imo.
@@dudeguy8686 I think even stuff like the water transformation slope is pretty significant, let alone the windmill. A giant tree coming up in the middle of the stage definitely affects the game, and yes the floor part not existing BY that tree sucks lol
The transformations are extremely telegraphed via the jumbotron and the steam. They really are just not that bad, not bad enough to cut out such a beloved stage with so much history anyway imo. Also Peach players aren't allowed to complain about RNG
Unfrozen Stadium is god tier.
I love seeing regular stadium. Your example of the Star Wars stare down is the best explanation
Unfrozen stadium is a necessary evil and if I’m spectating I don’t want to see Frozen Stadium. Modding the game to change the actual gameplay is going too far and at that point you’re not playing Melee. If someone wants to make a change to improve the competitive integrity of the game then you could do a lot of things with that logic. The slippery slope isn’t a fallacy in this scenario, but it only applies if you cross the threshold of altering the vanilla Melee gameplay. Is there really no way to get Unfrozen Stadium on Slippi?
I have an older 20XX mod on my wii that has every Stadium transformation as a frozen stage so people can practice on every variation. The mod exists! It's not slippi but since Nintendo won't let tournaments freeze the stage, serious players should look into the older 20XX versions
I think 4.07+ is the one with UCF dashback + shield drop? Couple of fun remixed stages as well
Unfrozen stadium adds a certain degree of spice to the game that I think is great for spectators and that I don't really mind as a player. Sure it can be janky but I don't think it's enough to ban, especially with so few comp stages as it is.
Some of the best clips and moments in smash history have taken place because unfrozen stadium is so whacky. As a spectator I looooove the transformations!
2:55 lol you didn’t mention the reply. “Doesn’t your character randomly pull lightsabers out of the ground?”
But about the topic at hand, I believe the “best” thing imo is to have the option in the stage to have both options: unfrozen and frozen as counterpicks/starters. If someone wants to counter pick they can, and if they don’t they don’t. Forcing an overall “bad”experience on the player will just decrease the competitive scene and having a solution that benefits both sides of the argument feels like the best solution. Idk could just be me.
I feel like, if we are going to decide to modify game stages we may as well start adding custom legal stages to the game that people can generally agree on.
I can see that in a while when the game is solved or close to solved, but it's not necessary now
@ahmost 22 nah once you play on PM Warioland and Green Hill its hard to see Melee's stagelist. PM even has a much better doubles set
Bring back the other Pokemon stage instead and people will forget all about unfrozen Stadium's jank.
Free Pokefloats.
Fun fact, rainbow cruise has less rng than Pokemon stadium.
Freeze green greens, ledge grab limit does all the work you need for that stage being broken.
Stadium transformations are some real Mario party minigame shit lmao. They're only allowed because there's no option built into the game to turn them off.
Wobbling was fun to watch as a spectator, always high tense situations and then a wobble was a huge cheer or hate moment, big momentum swings were great. I understand competitors don't like them, but I would love to watch it again
Idk where this came from, where people “liked” wobbling. Imagine grabbing someone and killing them. One grab and you get the stock or even the game. How that is fun to play, play against, or even watch is beyond me. To each their own, but I’m glad it’s gone.
I literally never enjoyed seeing it
vast majority of spectators did not like wobbling at all, myself included
couldn't be happier its gone. Painful to watch and a chore to play against
I don't think wobbling ICs were as bad to watch as people made them out to be, but non-wobbling ICs are just so much cooler to watch imo as a spectator.
And it's not like the character struggles for reps without wobbling like the people against the ban made it seem like it was going to be. I honestly see more ICs in top 64s compared to other characters in their part of the tier list like Yoshi or Pika, and those characters have won a major.
bbb: "wow this stage really ruined my run! not my 4 side bs in a row!"
As a spectator vanilla stadium is hype, as a player frozen is sm better because 1 transformations are REALLY bad sometimes (plup johnny at shine, etc) and 2 slippi is like 99% of people’s main form of practice and it only has frozen. I think adaptability and all that is good and true for some cases, and a more varied stagelist is better, but transformations can definitely go into the realm of competitively unviable, which sucks, so I think we should probably remove it (obviously harder to deal with with Nintendo stuff, but we already have UCF so hopefully there’s a way we can make it work). Also FD is easily the most polarizing stage imo so I think 5 starter and FD as a counterpick is a way healthier stagelist
In the ideal world for modding, my ideal stage list would be:
Fd
Fixed battlefield ledge grab (EDIT: realize its probably better for it to stay same. Look at comment below)
Frozen stadium
Unfrozen stadium
Dreamland no whispy
Fod
Yoshis no shy guys/no hurtbox on shyguys
Just curious. Why would you want to change battlefield ledge grab? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, just want your perspective. I'll lay mine out first, so you have something to sort of contrast with.
I think fixing it is unnecessary, since: it affects all players equally, and we know exactly why it happens.
After being able to mod the game and look at the outlines of our ledge grab boxes in real time, and see how they interact with the sloped edge of the stage, there's no excuse for not knowing what happened to you when you fail your ledgegrab.
It's as simple as just holding backwards when you are trying to grab the ledge.
Also, there is no solution for fixing the ledge that wouldn't destroy the ability of Marth and Captain falcon to do their cool tech. Captain falcon has an instant ledge grab using the upb, when used on this stage, and Marth can bonk his head immediately prior to his ledge dash in order to get massively increased galint. Both are insanely difficult, and therefore high risk options, but they're both right on the edge of what is practical for people to try using, and incentivizing people to try difficult tech that's probably going to make them lose, but might be their only ticket to success, is hype as hell.
@@grantdraus7449 i forgot about the cool tech. U right considering it does affect everyone equally. Only counterargument id say is some characters are screwed more than others, like yoshi egg stall vs puff ledge stall. Overall yeah im fine with bf looking again
@@shaan__real yeah, it definitely does benefit some characters more than others. That being said, I think the one it benefits the most is Captain falcon, and it narrows the gap between the most busted characters and the rest of the cast, not expands it. Like nothing on battlefield's ledge really hurts most mid-tiers, and it doesn't really help fox or Falco specifically, but yeah. I think that both sides of the argument about Pokemon stadium, specifically, definitely have some strong talking points. Hard for me to decide. What about you?
@@grantdraus7449 for stadium i like the transformations as they add a layer of depth and on the fly thinking but i also love frozen as i think its one of the lost balanced stages, so for me an ideal world would have both
The fact that we can't freeze stadium at events because of Nintendo is very strange. They themselves have included a hazard off toggle in ultimate so I think their recent design philosophy would point to them being okay with this in theory, it's just that we use a mod to achieve it and mods bad
Is there a way to make the frozen transformations as stages? would make it easier for people to practice on them.
Honestly, I hate whispy more than unfrozen stadium. Not even just the wind, but the fact that it shakes the screen really fucks me up.
If you can't get good slippi practice on unfrozen stadium, it's undoubtedly an advantage for legacy players. Not saying that's a good or bad thing but it's true
As a rational human, i understand the disparity between old school and new school mindset and respect other opinions. As a slippi kid, fuck unfrozen stadium.
I think it's just more stressful on the players. Not only is your situational awareness tested, it will have to be tested in bracket. Just because you can hit that tech on the tree comfortably on your 20XX setup doesn't mean you'll 100% hit it when the tree comes up in a bracket match. Also, even on the "less problematic" transforms like grass and water, they still come with their nuanced things being windmill and that weird tree shrub towards the right on the grass stage. I'm still pro grass and water tho, I wish we can normalize them as their nuanced things are more controlled variables then compared to something like shyguys on YS which are extremely random. I wish we could turn off shyguys on YS for tourney only, friendlies is fine, but that's another topic.
make frozen stadium a starter and unfrozen stadium a counterpick. Add 2 frozen transformations for counterpicks and give 2 bans even in bo5. Solv'ed
Melee Twitter: "Freeze Stadium!" "Unfreeze Stadium!"
Me, a mad man: "Unban Poke Floats!"
A similar discussion is happening in Project+ right now. Some people want to replace FoD with something else, irritated by the random moving platforms. Or change Smashville so that that platform doesn’t go as far off stage, which can cause certain combo extensions or recovery buffs unique to that layout. It’s consistency vs emphasizing situational awareness, like the stadium debate here. It’s interesting to see it in multiple places.
I think, from a competitive integrity standpoint, it's not the best (simply because it's a random variable). BUT from a viewing experience standpoint, i think it's just more interesting and fun. And I think Melee could always use more of a boost in the viewing experience category, cause it's already solid enough in the competitive integrity category.
Unfrozen stadium to me holds the same sort of appeal as an outdoor NFL game in the winter.
The conditions are going to affect everyone equally, but the impact will it be felt the same equally.
Honestly, my preference would be to have both frozen and unfrozen stadiums as an option because as a counterpick, it seems like it would add so much drama when someone said, “I want to go to the chaos place.”
The unique terrain aspect is what drew me in to platform fighters like Smash instead of traditional fighting games. Even as a filthy Ultimate player, I love watching unfrozen Stadium because it's INTERESTING. Even campy gameplay is entertaining to me because I enjoy watching adaptable players take advantage of EVERY aspect of the game they're playing, instead of just limiting it to player-and-opponent. If the terrain wasn't a big deal, I wouldn't be in this community to begin with.
And yeah, like you said, giving audiences people to root for and against is a VERY valid reason to have more factors in play. I really don't think the arguments for less interesting stages are all that convincing to me.
Marth also beats fox way harder on unfrozen stadium.
That coupled with FD makes Marth win the matchup way more, especially if he wins game 1.
It'd be kinda cool if Stadium was unfrozen but it could only swap to the water and grass transformations, that way the stage would be more interesting but it wouldn't have the complete jank of the fire and rock transformations.
I’ve played Melee for about 8 years now and I love old school stadium. The only way I’d really be ok with freezing stadium is if you allowed at least grass and water stages as stand alone counterpicks or maybe even grass as a starter and water as a counterpick
Starters:
Battlefield
Yoshi's
FoD
Dreamland
Frozen Stadium
Counterpicks:
FD
Unfrozen Stadium
As somebody who’s been a melee spectator since 2013 while not ever playing competitively, all I want to see is consistency in expectations for the future players. I think unfrozen stadium can create extremely hype moments but also be completely whack, but like you said the more important difference is practice experience. If I decided to pick up competitive melee today, I would hate unfrozen stadium (and rightfully so) because its not the standard, so I’m immediately at a disadvantage event though I’m doing what the community has said is the best way to pick up melee.
Is unfrozen stadium a bit gimmicky? Yes.
Does it promote degenerate play? No.
Does it overcentralize the meta? No.
So I think it's fine.
And it's exciting to see some creative and unconventional melee.
Unfrozen stadium is great because it adds a ton of extra interesting stuff to the match. I'm super new to smash admittedly, but like it's cool to have stages that are more dynamnic than "flat field with platforms," though obviously there's way more variety in melee than ultimate even WITH a frozen stadium
“I don’t actually, fundamentally, think that these transactions are anti-melee.”
Go off king. Let’s gooooo!!!!
I can't speak to whether or not stadium should be frozen but I can say that as a spectator I hated wobbling with a passion. The only drama was a player getting robbed of a win because they got grabbed once and that was lame af
if fire and rock transformations were their own stages they wouldve been banned 10 years ago because of similar uncompetitive reasons we banned other stages. i agree with bbatts its ridiculous that we still play on them. We may as well bring back corneria and yoshis island. not to mention you can literally clip through the transformations and die in the middle of the stage. If we have frozen stadium as an option, its overwhelmingly a better option than unfrozen. tournies were definitely starting to run frozen stadium before the pandemic and before slippi rollback. any hype caused by the stage conditions is pretty fake hype, we have the most hype game in the world because two players are going head to head in a legit battle of skill, and we dont need to throw wacky stage shenanigans into play. just let the melee speak for itself.
toph i would love to see like your casting “highlights” from events like TBH and the off-season, maybe not the type of content you want to upload here but would still be awesome!
I feel like Frozen vs Unfrozen argument is a partly a generational one. The old school: folks who grew up and competed with hard copies of Melee and therefore unfrozen Stadium are pro unfrozen. Slippi kids who've always played and competed on frozen Stadium understandably want it frozen. I'm a Peach main, and I know unfrozen stadium super sucks for me in most/all of my match-ups. But it's what I grew up on, so I'm all about it: I'd rather have it be unfrozen as a counterpick stage. But you know, maybe I'm just be being old person about it -- I totally see and understand the argument for Frozen Stadium as a Neutral -- the kids are probably right.
I personally don’t see what the problem is with unfrozen Pokémon Stadium. It’s literally the same as frozen stadium, the only difference is that one has 4 different transformations with unique layouts. I personally love the stage for how much potential the stage has in terms of combos, recovery mix-ups, using the environments to gain an advantage, and being able to get creative with movement. Just because it’s not another tri-plat stage or another fd, that doesn’t make it bad, it makes it different, and unique. It’s like making the same argument for yoshi story not being like battlefield because it has the shy guys and randall. This is all just my thoughts and opinions, and in my opinion, I agree with Toph.
As a follow up to the previous comment, I love practicing tech skill on stadium, it allows me to get creative with movement and I’ve personally gotten better with my tech skill because of it, and I love playing against level 9 cpu’s and other players on this stage because it allows me to utilize the stage to combo, or mix up my recovery. Plus, watching someone do an infinite, or watching pit/cliff fights is awesome. Again, this is just my thing, and these are my opinions.
Lol, "it's literally the same stage except it also has 4 ridiculously different stage layouts"
@@rickmoranisstan That’s exactly what I’m saying.
@@JoeDude1901 that's like saying Marth and Roy are literally the same characters except Marth is better lmao.
@@veffiesdda965 Exactly
The thumbnail didn't load for me and thought this was going to be about the N64 games
"you would have to go so far out of your way to practice on them"
oh no, driving to someone's house to play melee, it's basically unaccomplishable
3:43 I think you might be a bit clouded by nostalgia with this. There is something unique and suspenseful about one player having a guaranteed KO in their back pocket, sure. But unique does not mean people liked it. I think you’re forgetting how mad people would be if the Icies player won, and even if they lost were people that happy? Aside from a few memorable sets they were usually pretty boring. Imo wobbling gave us some great memories, but the stuff we’ve forgotten should probably stay that way.
I'm gonna keep it 100. As a spectator watching Wobbbles wobble people was actually quite enjoyable to me. I quite liked watching it when the player did not only wobble. On bad match ups i fully understand it because id do the same thing tbh
As a spectator / low level player I can understand why people would dislike unfrozen stadium, but I personally love it and find frozen stadium far less interesting in comparison. I think slipping not having unfrozen as an option kind of skews the argument in having it frozen for newbies who haven't experienced unfrozen as often in a regular training environment
Having read fizzi's comment,
I reckon just bring back the transformations as their own stage, some would be counter picks, others would be neutrals. 20xx already has em which is dope.
For IRL tournaments though, just keep it unfrozen... so much competitive fun playing it over the last 5 years or so.
4:50 reminded me of the gg episode where you did the stage music. Soundtrack album when? :P
Is there a way to make make each stadium transformation it’s own stage? The stage would be frozen in each transformation. Doubt it would cause desync since the stage isn’t changing
I don't really like the wobbling comparison. Yeah, wobbling gave people a villain which is exciting in theory. However the hbox era also gave people a villain to cheer against, and it ended up being one of the least hype eras in melee as a result.
The chaos is what makes Melee so beautiful, from the stages to the RNG to the way it’s just not a functional game lol.
If you want a competitive game where there is no RNG, don’t even think about Melee lol
IMO: I only hate Fire and Rock aka big ass walls to trap players.
It might be worth considering alternatives to frozen/unfrozen. What if the time between transformations was doubled? Or what if the chance of the rock/fire stages was reduced?
People upset about this is silly. Maybe it was because of Bobby's reaction. Stadium is kinda part of the fabric of the scene now. So many exciting moments. As a spectator its the best, and as a competitor - I mean yeah, once in a while it may cause an "unfortunate" interaction and loss of stock, but c'mon, this is melee, the best player is still going to win the vast majority of the time.
I remember when PM did frozen stadium 2, and then Sakurai fought back with small battlefield.
frozen stadium is the way. but Stadium fire/rock and stadium water/grass would also be interesting
Pokemon Stadium is one of the best legal stages in Smash history.
I know the main reason it's frozen in Slippi is for technical reasons, but if both are an option absolutely go unfrozen Stadium. It's so dynamic and there's no other stage like it in Smash (there could be a few like it Ultimate, but Ultimate players are cowards and hate having an interesting stage list.)
Even if it's bad for me, I still like unfrozen Stadium. It's a nice reminder that we play a children's party game from 2001 and not Street Fighter
I don't like unfrozen stadium because it's much more often just camping situations or low counterplay infinites that get people to camp in the first place, but the cool and whacky moments are so cool I feel like it's still not something that NEEDS to be banned over it. It also reminds us of the true party game nature of the game.
Overall the practice problem is what drives it over the edge as something better off banned
Stadium is objectively better game design when frozen, but also so much more fun and hype unfrozen
Unfrozen stadium but every time u pick it you gotta sing the mickey mouse clubhouse intro on every transformation.
unfrozen stadium is objectively less fair but also objectively more hype. Remember the falcon round robin at that california tournament?
i only really started playing melee with slippi but ive watched for over 9 years at this point. as a spectator nothing is more sleeper then unfronzen stadium even if people dont camp with some of the transformations its by all means just a worse stage. windmill being to close to the blast zone, fire with big tree, earth with big rock the only real one that isnt terrible is water. not even to mention infinites and falling through the stage jank that can happen. imagine a world where a game 5 grand finals mang0 zain is ended by zain clipping through the stage cause of a transformation no one wins no ones happy and it just sucks. atleast for me when rock happens i just look away or go get water cause ik nothing is gonna happen.
and as a player it also sucks i dont want my flow interupted by welp gotta wait out rock for 30 seconds.
Anyone who thinks Pstadium transformations aren't hype needs to go back and watch Wizzy and Zain camping each other out at like 150% in game 5 of grand finals, and then Wizzy literally fainting afterward.
I can’t help but wonder, is it possible to have both frozen and unfrozen stadium?
Edit: it’s in 20XX
we would never have that amazing last stock on wizzrobe vs zain genesis 5 without unfrozen stadium this is where i stand from
I just think unfrozen stadium benefits fox more than anyone else, so I like having a more balanced stage list however minor it may be. But I wouldnt mind playing on it again if it became standard. I doubt theres a problem with it working on slippi considering pokefloats and brinstar depths work fine on April Fools :p
When you play on stadium on a real gamecube, the GameCube only remembers one transformation at a time, and retrieves its next shape from the disc in realtime whenever it transforms.
When you try to emulate that in slippi, it sadly causes slippi to crash if it tries to do a rollback and transformation both at the same time.
It rains and snows in stadiums fans will go on the field someone can spill a drink on the basketball court shit happens beauty of sports
Honestly I hate unfrozen stadium but would love to see only water/grass transformations.
I get this, although one of the few things I hate about Ultimate Scene is how the players have slowly gotten most of the stages banned.
As a Melee viewer, I'll probably never condone banning interesting stages at a point where there are so few available.
I guarantee if Melee had the options to turn hazards off and had more stages to begin with, their stage banning philosophy would be pretty similar to Ultimate’s. No way they’d be playing with hazards stadium if the ability to freeze it had been available since day one.
Ultimate’s stagelist problems have more to do with counterpicks and striking and overall inconsistency between events than the number of illegal stages.
I'm a fan of more dynamic stage layouts. I think the Ult guys are spoiled with stage choice and yet they limit to only the most basic stages instead lol. But I think stages with walls cause problems, so I'm no a huge fan of unfrozen Stafium for that reason. Even as a spectator, games really slow down during the transformations.
Nothing is more melee then simultaneously thinking your game is the greatest game ever made and also modding/banning away all the things in you dont like about it.
Its not about the stages being anti melee its about it being anti competitive
I’m a marth player so having frozen stadium is almost objectively better to have against spacies, but I wouldn’t mind unfreezing it again. I feel like the transformations never shift the balance to the point where it’s unfair.
I’m a slippi kid and i still think unfrozen stadium should be standard
After TBH 10 I realized unfrozen stadium is peak viewership
Glad to see weve for the most part gone back to unfrozen stadium
What I dislike about Stadium is mostly about the height of the ceiling :/
Tho I can't deny the Phantom Menace vibes whenever a tree trasnformation happens... And besides some odd interactions the transformations are quite fun to improvise on.
I think ps2 is actually pro melee. You have to adapt not only your defense play but also your combos. Some of the most creative amd best combos have been on pokemon transformation stages.
Honestly, there are too many stage bans, is what I would say if it weren't for the OP nature of some of the exploits on the stages. One such exploit is walls. A stage where a wall popped up for just 10 seconds would be cool. Or a ceiling.
As a spectator, I do think unfrozen stadium is hype but not gonna lie the reason why we're having this discussion leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If a TO just out of the blue unfroze stadium because they believed it made melee better or more hype that would have been really cool but the fact that unfrozen stadium is necessary because of nintendo and the already uneasy relationship melee as a community has with it just kinda blows.
Unfrozen to me keeps some of that casual magic because it adds environmental variety to game and player quickly adapt to the niche situation. Watching Ultimate and Sm4sh got boring after a while because the stages were also so samey.
As long as the fix the glitches where you phase through the stage I don't mind transformations
If the transformations cause some desync issues we should freeze some or the transformations and let ppl practice on it for a full match !
You can’t convince me that unfrozen stadium is a good stage😂 it’s a gag pick at this point compared so other stages. Even whispy and shy guys are not great but at least it doesn’t involve endless bs lol
I think it's way more fun to spectate unfrozen stadium.
20XX hack packs have these stages. Frozen stages. You could direct play vs each other and you could play on these transformations. You just wouldn't be able to practice the act of the stage transforming.
Unfrozen stadium is more Melee than frozen stadium. I honestly would prefer if slippi had unfrozen stadium.