What's Optimal For Grip Strength During Aging?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
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Papers referenced in the video:
Association of Grip Strength With Risk of All-Cause Mortality, Cardiovascular Diseases, and Cancer in Community-Dwelling Populations: A Meta-analysis of Prospective Cohort Studies pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Measurement of hand grip strength: A cross-sectional study of two dynamometry devices www.ncbi.nlm.n...
Reliability and validity of two hand dynamometers when used by community-dwelling adults aged over 50 years
bmcgeriatr.bio...
Grip strength values and cut-off points based on over 200,000 adults of the German National Cohort - a comparison to the EWGSOP2 cut-off points pubmed.ncbi.nl...
I just turned 60. Checked my grip strength now. 83.6 on right and 77.4 on left.
The problem with plotting hazard ratio against grip strength is that grip strength reduces with age after age 40(ish), so all it shows is that your risk of dying increases with age, which is obvious.
The data needs to be re-analysed in age bands.
You would generally correct for age when analyzing data like this, hopefully it was done in the studies.
@@jamesgilmore8192 And why don't they correct for body weight?
@@HvdHaghen That would usually be done also. Along with M/F, income, biomarkers etc. How many you do depends on the study and it's goals.
Great video. I use Captains of Crush grip trainers almost everyday in the office especially during boring Skype meetings!
The problem is that grip strength might be a proxy for general muscle mass. Having a good grip strength but not general good muscle mass / strength might be misleading.
@@GA-lf2uh agree
I’m working up to a #3
Its a good idea with very little downside imho, and especially useful if you are transferring the higher grip strength to functional lifts/movements later on.
Supposedly, leg strength is linked to longevity. What do you believe is the best method to measure leg strength for longevity, a 1 rep squat max test, a 30 second chair sit to stand test, an isometric mid thigh pull test or an isometric belt quarter squat test?
Leg strength is far more relevant than grip strength due to the volume of muscle involved. Grip strength is used in labs because it's an easy way to test rats and mice for strength and stamina.
I'm amazed that this guy is trying to read more into it.
I would vote a max trap bar deadlift as its the most relevant lift for walking and then some kind of squat test.
@@Icarianbrother
Single leg bodyweight squat
in my experience fwiw grip strength increases:
-after a long (>8000 steps) brisk (2~steps/min) walk (particularly if done the sun)
-after a good night sleep (heavily depending on what probiotika i took the day before, which make me sleep better for some reason)
-(not reliably but sometimes ive noticed this) after eating resistant starch (fun fun: starch in german = stärke and stärke in english also means strength 😛)
Grip strength or doing activities that increase grip strength does seem relevant for the general population. If you are training with a grip device, you probably should be doing farmers walks or using a barbell/dumbbell/kettlebell for functional movements. The really interesting one is toe strength which has one of the highest associations with fall risk.
One thing I don't understand is whether training grip strength will reduce all cause mortality. It's hard for me to believe that grip strength is causing significantly lower all cause mortality. So then it'd be nearly pointless to train grip strength - is that correct? Do you plan to train your grip strength (although you lift weights, so you've been training it indirectly as least, but wondering if you plan to target it)? I just wonder how meaningful it would be to see someone like you has lower or higher grip strength.
Hi Max, it could be reverse causation, i.e. people with higher grip strength are healthier, and correspondingly live longer. But, are they healthier because of regular workouts, and grip strength is an indirect measure of whole-body strength and health?
I could start specifically training grip strength-as you mentioned, other movements in the approach already train it (pullups, shrugs, rows), but if I start to see an age-related grip strength decline, then I'll start training it, too. With a relatively few measurements, my max is ~45kg-when considering the ACM plot, I may want to train it to get to > 50kg, which I think I can do with minimal effort (1 or 2 grip workouts/week).
That is correct. Researchers use grip strength as proxy for overall strength simply because it is easy to measure in a medical office. Specifically training your grip is just gaming the test.
@@robertdaymouse3784 not completely, though
@@robertdaymouse3784
Exactly.
It would be bonkers to suggest that simply increasing your grip strength would increase your life expectancy. Far more important are leg muscles - they're much bigger.
You could use similar evidence to show that having grey hair or being bald is associated with all-cause mortality... of course it is but dying your hair won't make you live longer, no more than having less hair will shorten your lifespan, it is merely an indicator of age.
Grip strength is a method used for testing lab rats and mice because it's a simple and easy way to measure strength and stamina. The result is more an effect rather than a cause. A common confusion for many so-called biohackers.
@@conqueragingordietrying123 Mine was ~40kg a while ago before joining a gym, now at 60kg without grip specific training. I've started training my hands/forearms more extensively, of which grip strength is a part, primarily to reduce the risk of all hand and finger problems/injuries as I get older. It fits in while other things are going on and isn't a big time commitment.
I got slightly below my bodyweight for left, and slightly above for right. I'm lean and wiry, not big.
I’m in my 60’ and currently have a grip strength over 200
I’m working towards closing the Captans of Crush (tm) 3 (about 280 lbs)
Too bad it’s a correlation not a causation.
While you're training some grip strength, do some pull ups or deadlifts, farmers carry, or some other functional excercise to train the grip
Already regularly doing pullups, shrugs, and rows, which all train grip. Initial readings are decent, 45kg.
Can "great than " ever be optimal? There's no upper limit...Is a grip strength of 150kgs better than 50kgs?
I would like to know what the ranges should be for the camry for all different age groups separately for every 5 years or so.
I can get 82kg on my right with the camry and 72.5kg on the left hand.
Nice video! The devices seem to involve different movements... The camry seems to isolate the fingers a bit more,.or do I see it wrong?
Thanks @monnoo8221. Having used both, they're almost exactly the same.
What causes muscles to become weaker even if they are life long lifters?
Oxidative stress increases during aging, which could be a factor. Other factors include an age-related decreases for androgens.
@@conqueragingordietrying123 Yikes! So I need to eat plants for antioxidants and insulin for growth?
I just asked chatgpt "what is the pathology of sarcopenia"? It was GPT4 that answered. According to chatGPT4 fast twitch muscle fibers are susceptible to hormone changes. It is a combination of reduction in growth hormone, androgens, and an increase in cortisol that causes this.
There is also mitochondrial dysfunction so that mitochondria stop processing important proteins for muscle repair. Also they are unable to catabolize (break down) some proteins in muscle that begins to build up and prevent growth in that area (garbage proteins are taking up the space and not being removed via phagocytosis).
There is an overall decrease in muscle stem cells so that when myogenisis (building of new muscle) does occur it isn't as much as when there were more stem cells. This also is effected by hormone changes which makes the effect stronger.
All of this leads to reduced activity which acts as a positive feedback loop.
chatGPT4 is a strong tool if you know how to ask it questions correctly.
@@elinope4745 now ask it for PMIDs for its claims, and then look up those PMIDs to see if they're real...
@@elinope4745please leave your random insertion of AI in the garbage where it belongs.
Mike, is that 50 kg per hand or total for both hands together? Would squeezing a bathroom scale work as a reasonable way to measure it?
Hi Ed, one hand, and probably not on the bathroom scale
@@conqueragingordietrying123 Mike, if you have a bathroom scale it would be very interesting if it matches your hand grip force measurement. You may have to use two hands on scale and divide by two to get the force per hand. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work
I can max out the Camry EH101, does this mean I will live forever?
Ha, interesting-what is the value?
@@conqueragingordietrying123 Once it goes above 90kg it just says "error" 😁
@@conqueragingordietrying123 Well it maxes out at 90kg, after that it just says "error".
Only if you could break it 😅
Extrapolating that Wu et al graph it looks like it'll hit a HR of 0.00, aka zero risk of death, at around 90kg (the maximum the device can measure), so you're sorted mate 👌
Mike any comments on causality on this topic? EG if one improves grip strength does it follow that their lifespan is likely to increase? Or is grip strength more of a marker of avoiding sarcopenia?
Hi Ed, it could be a bit of both. Tracking and avoiding an age-related strength decline, whether grip, or other muscle function-measures is important...
Its been shown to be causative for improving some blood pressure markers, e.g. Isometric handgrip exercise training reduces resting systolic blood pressure but does not interfere with diastolic blood pressure and heart rate variability in hypertensive subjects: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials, 2021
Since it's a measure of systemic health i guess if someone specifically trains for it this loses all meaning right? Since it's correlation not causation
Everything starts with correlation-a longitudinal RCT specifically training grip strength (80y) is impossible.
There could be reverse causation, though, where older, sicker people are weaker. So I wouldn't say it has no meaning, the key is to maintain strength for as long as possible.
I would say this one is relevant but needs to be within a functional context of what older people continue to do in later life that needs grips strength.
@@jamesgilmore8192 i thought it would be interesting as a measure on how well you're training (if you're not specifically training on grip strenght), like how much is your nervous and cardiac system recovered from exercise in a similiar way to HRV what do you think in these terms?
@@nuovoaccount998 If you are tracking it day to day, maybe the downs are related to recovery or lack there of. I don't think there is much research on it. You'd have to measure it and then try different activities and see what happens.
But, if you tested any muscle group you would get the same all course mortallity wouldn't you.
Perhaps-is there published data for that comparison?
I don't think so. First, association may be not linear for leg muscles as those are more in use. For abs and glutes it is difficult to standardize. Same for lats or pecs. So, grip strength involves tendons, muscles and mind movement scale connection, for hand, forearm, triceps and even shoulder. It will drop drastically if the body would suffer from systemic inflammation, or bad fat/ceramides in the muscles. And finally they movement is easily accessible and the process can be standardized for a quick assessment using a small device
What's a kilogram?
Grip Strength is mostly a useless parameter for health. If a cancer patient used hand grip devices daily they could have a grip in the top 1% for their age and still die within 1 year.
So grip strength is a very poor correlation of health or longevity but not a cause of health or longer life