A smol bean with ADHD here just sending my love. Also, as a mathematician I appreciate anyone highlighting proper statistical arguments where they can be found -- helps me to die less on the inside.
With executive functioning deficits, I need to cede as much mental processing to automatisms (bypassing conscious processing) as I can. That's why I can attest to there being those separate buffers, like the acoustic loop. As long as I can let them do their tasks mindlessly, I perform normally. As soon as I have to pass the information through my attention span, my performance goes to the toilet, and it feels like my working memory leaks.
Remember performing working memory tests during my psych undergrad, implementing articulatory suppression i.e., repeating the word monday 50 bajillion times while remembering words. Good stuff.
Thanks for making this video. Kasparov often explain in interviews that the person that remembers to most mistakes to avoid becomes the grand master. Winning is about spotting a mistake sooner than your opponent.
Two unconnected responses to the above: When it came to remembering a string of numbers, as a professional musician I visualised them as scale steps on a piano keyboard (a melody if you like) and recalled them accurately, even after the video finshed - something I definitely would not be able to do just trying to remember the numbers themselves, so a bit like the chess example. And when I paint I find I can concentrate better & stay with the task for longer if I hear music in the background. It seems to me that the music takes up a part of my attention, leaving the rest of it free to just paint.
At some point, I'm going to talk about levels of processing, which taps into what you're talking about in helping you remember number sequences. I'm also planning on talking about attention, and task-unrelated thoughts, and all of that :)
I'm Autistic and my working memory is below 70% of my peers, which in theory would place me in the "low functioning" category, however I have over time learned ways to remember things through memory scaffolding, which includes clumping and other mnemonic techniques. When an Autistic person askes why, it's offen to create a logical reason for something that can be put to memory. I can't memorize a rand set of actions but if I holistically understand a process, I can remember how to do it.
Working memory is limited with the ADHD and that can cause some peculiar effects, such as having a conversation with someone and not hearing anything they say or telling a story and forgetting the point. Losing track of personal items is a major frustration. I have become so accustomed to mitigating for this that a sense of unease occurs if I do not put an item back in it's usual place (typically tools). I can feel my future self become frustrated and distracted. Noise distraction is a major challenge in an open office and an excellent mitigation are noise cancelling headphones, quite wonderful but also kind of creepy, like being in a sensory deprivation chamber.
Oh my god was this insightful Slowly giving me more incentive to watch through all your videos. Speaking of which seeing like 40 vids over the past year makes me go damn lady you are on a roll Heres to hoping you get more viewers soon!
Workings of a memory is especially interesting subject to me as I recently found out that apparently I have aphantasia, mind blindness. I.e. someone tells me to close my eyes, imagine a lake and see how blue it is. I cant, everything is just black. But still I'm pretty good at those visual "rotate this" tests and my facial memory is very good.
Came here to make this comment too. I have aphantasia but am really good at spatial reasoning tests. I wonder how aphantasia would be integrated into this model? And maybe thinking about those blocks visually is an intuitive but ineficient way of doing it, and people like us, who are used to thinking conceptually instead of visually have "trained" the "correct" way of doing them? Many interesting questions, in any case the research on aphantasia is really underwhelming. I hope more studies get done in the future.
Good work as always, Cass. Have you considered juxtaposing your working memory schematic with Kahneman's S1/S2 Cognition Theory to include simple and complex decision-making?
When I started programming for full time employment, I discovered that I couldn't listen to music with lyrics while working. My guess was that I was borrowing language processing to do code. That may sound super obvious (they call them programming languages), but it wasn't just the literal typing of code that lyrics distracted me from - I also couldn't lay out algorithms or break the tasks into functional pieces or do basically any design work while language was happening in my ears. I could listen to instrumental music without a problem, though - in fact it helped drown out the talking of coworkers in the inevitable cubicle environments that seemed purpose built to ruin productivity.
How would someone with both aphantasia and no inner monologue fit in here? Is the Visuospatial Sketchpad not affected by the aphantasia and the phonological loop not affected by the lack of inner monologue?
Additional random fact: I have executive functioning issues and I also can't daydream. I can't sustain a daydream so the closest I have are extremely deliberate longform narratives almost like I'm writing a short story, and the slightest distraction boots me out of it completely. I can, however, do something that seems a bit like daydreaming, but only as I'm extremely relaxed and half-asleep. The boundaries of my thoughts fall off and my internal monologue becomes incoherent and less bound by rules (of grammar, syntax, semantics) and nonsense monologues run through my head, along with vague images that go along with it all. However, if I'm stirred even slightly, aroused out of that half-sleep, the "rules" snap back into place and I quickly forget whatever I was thinking in that nonsense headspace. I think this has to do with brainwave patterns. I can't daydream unless I'm in Stage 1 sleep, i guess. I think that could also explain why I can't meditate or get into what people call "flow states".
I think it was with driving I first really became aware of the factor of the intensity of a potential distraction. Loud music renders me completely unable to process and react properly to an unexpected situation. (Not like a kid suddenly running out into the street, that type of thing is automated, but like police redirecting traffic, using signs and signals that are not part of my everyday driving-experience.)
you had my attention as soon as you brought up Memento. Really interesting video and now I feel super called out for being one of those awfully irresponsible people that listen to youtube videos while driving...
Hi Cass. You mentioned The Body Keeps Score in one of your videos, I'm pretty sure. Didn't that mention recovered memories? I can't find which video it was now.
If I'm remembering correctly, it was a recommendation from my friend who left an abusive relationship for dealing with aftershocks. I have not read it myself, so it could include that.
Love your videos so much, your thoroughness really impressed me at the beginning and it still does 😋 I had a little thinking moment at around minute 13 and I thought "Would adding people who don't use phonology or visuals to remember things help differentiate how these types of memories work?" like surely the researchers thought abt that right? idk if that would even be helpful tho just a thought. anyways love your content! 💕💕💕
I think that's how some of the separability of the subsystems has been verified. Like people with specific deficits, visual or auditory, having more difficulty with certain tasks that load on the systems they have deficits with.
@@CassEris okay cool! yeah I was just trying to imagine how exactly functionally blind or deaf people would affect that but that's definitely beyond me, thank you for clarifying lol. Hope you're doing well! 💕
@@andier8245 Ah, yeah, gotcha. (If I'm remembering the research correctly) blind people still use the visuospatial sketchpad, primarily in the spatial sense.
@@CassEris wow, okay I would've assumed most blind people don't (just because of the name including the visual part) thanks for clarifying that (again lol) I've been watching your video series on "12 Rules For Life" and laughing at how many times he needs citations, thank you for shedding light on how much he talks out of his ass. I thought I'd also mention that your analogy (I think you said this in your secnd/thrd ep of 12 rules) of Lovecraftian character's minds being broken via understanding the horrible creatures' nature being similar to how it seems reading Freudian/Jungian 'breaks' or changes people's speech is funny and seems to hold true. I've been very lightly reading some books about the philosophy of ontology and the people surrounding the topic change their speech in a distinct way. I dunno if that's similar, just thought it seemed interesting:)
Would you say that there is a difference between sub vocalizing and reading without sub vocalizing? I'm under the impression that there are ways to read where you do not hear the words, but rather experience it through your imagination.
I would think the difference between sub-vocalization and not is if it would tie up the phonological loop. I'm very married to my internal dialog for reading (and thinking), but a couple times have been able to ever so briefly just have the words come in. And then I realize it's happening, so of course it stops, and am left with the feeling that it'd be a much quicker way to read lol
I deliberately chunked numbers for recall on my IQ test, and i also engaged the visual sketchpad to put the numbers into my memory better too. Despite doing all that extra work, and similar deliberate control processes for all the tasks of the test, my working memory score was in the "severely impaired" range. Does this mean my score would've been even worse if I just passively listened to the numbers and were less deliberate throughout? Or possibly better? (Like, let's say my problem with working memory actually lies within the episodic buffer or the central executive, so maybe NOT rehearsing and chunking and sketching could have freed up the other parts and allowed for a better recall and performance?)
It has spread as a concept a long way from Starcraft by now. You can pick it up and then have to do some etymological research to get back to Starcraft.
Is there a reason you always look baked? Is that natural? If so I am jeally. I'm wondering from your skin color though if you are actually a vampire, I suppose that's the most logical conclusion, cause no one who really looks that young could talk about things like this, young people are stoopid. I don't know if I'm old enough to be called old, but I'm old at heart, in my heart I always keep one foot in the grave.
I'm blazed right now lolz. I wonder... If a vamp sucks your blood when your toasted... Does the vampire become baked afterward? Lol I saw some of her older videos. I think she looks better in these newer ones. Maybe she's just getting more comfy at doing these vids... Maybe she's doing better production quality... Maybe she's manipulating the lighting a certain way... Maybe she's like Keanu reeves or Paul Rudd and just ages better with time lol. Who knows... Maybe all of these things? Oh snap... I figured it out. She's kidnapped the lobster boy and she's slowly drinking his sweet sweet lobster blood. Admit it Cass! It's why he's gone right now isn't it???
A smol bean with ADHD here just sending my love. Also, as a mathematician I appreciate anyone highlighting proper statistical arguments where they can be found -- helps me to die less on the inside.
Great video but the inclusion of the cat driving a car skit made my day.
With executive functioning deficits, I need to cede as much mental processing to automatisms (bypassing conscious processing) as I can. That's why I can attest to there being those separate buffers, like the acoustic loop. As long as I can let them do their tasks mindlessly, I perform normally. As soon as I have to pass the information through my attention span, my performance goes to the toilet, and it feels like my working memory leaks.
I don't trust myself with a "potential multi-ton murder machine" this is why I've never learnt to drive. Great video!
The consistent inclusion of kitty imagery is very, very appreciated
Remember performing working memory tests during my psych undergrad, implementing articulatory suppression i.e., repeating the word monday 50 bajillion times while remembering words. Good stuff.
Having learned how to program when I was younger, I will always be amazed at how computer like the brain is. Or how brain like we made our computers
The one who discovers what can effectively function as a unit of memory will get the Nobel prize.
Thanks for making this video.
Kasparov often explain in interviews that the person that remembers to most mistakes to avoid becomes the grand master. Winning is about spotting a mistake sooner than your opponent.
Two unconnected responses to the above: When it came to remembering a string of numbers, as a professional musician I visualised them as scale steps on a piano keyboard (a melody if you like) and recalled them accurately, even after the video finshed - something I definitely would not be able to do just trying to remember the numbers themselves, so a bit like the chess example. And when I paint I find I can concentrate better & stay with the task for longer if I hear music in the background. It seems to me that the music takes up a part of my attention, leaving the rest of it free to just paint.
At some point, I'm going to talk about levels of processing, which taps into what you're talking about in helping you remember number sequences. I'm also planning on talking about attention, and task-unrelated thoughts, and all of that :)
This was really cool! I'd love to see how/if working memory might differ for neurodivergent folks, like autistic people or those with ADHD.
I'm Autistic and my working memory is below 70% of my peers, which in theory would place me in the "low functioning" category, however I have over time learned ways to remember things through memory scaffolding, which includes clumping and other mnemonic techniques.
When an Autistic person askes why, it's offen to create a logical reason for something that can be put to memory. I can't memorize a rand set of actions but if I holistically understand a process, I can remember how to do it.
@@mintjaan that might help me with ADHD. Thank you for sharing!
"Later hums..." might be the best thing ever. Great video!
Cass, your own content is so much better, I would love to see this type of video more often
Working memory is limited with the ADHD and that can cause some peculiar effects, such as having a conversation with someone and not hearing anything they say or telling a story and forgetting the point. Losing track of personal items is a major frustration. I have become so accustomed to mitigating for this that a sense of unease occurs if I do not put an item back in it's usual place (typically tools). I can feel my future self become frustrated and distracted. Noise distraction is a major challenge in an open office and an excellent mitigation are noise cancelling headphones, quite wonderful but also kind of creepy, like being in a sensory deprivation chamber.
You're work on this is very appreciated. When I can, I will up my Patreon. I hope this continues to be viable for you. Best wishes.
Oh my god was this insightful
Slowly giving me more incentive to watch through all your videos. Speaking of which seeing like 40 vids over the past year makes me go damn lady you are on a roll
Heres to hoping you get more viewers soon!
Workings of a memory is especially interesting subject to me as I recently found out that apparently I have aphantasia, mind blindness. I.e. someone tells me to close my eyes, imagine a lake and see how blue it is. I cant, everything is just black. But still I'm pretty good at those visual "rotate this" tests and my facial memory is very good.
Came here to make this comment too. I have aphantasia but am really good at spatial reasoning tests. I wonder how aphantasia would be integrated into this model?
And maybe thinking about those blocks visually is an intuitive but ineficient way of doing it, and people like us, who are used to thinking conceptually instead of visually have "trained" the "correct" way of doing them?
Many interesting questions, in any case the research on aphantasia is really underwhelming. I hope more studies get done in the future.
super interesting, thanks :D
Good work as always, Cass. Have you considered juxtaposing your working memory schematic with Kahneman's S1/S2 Cognition Theory to include simple and complex decision-making?
At some point down the road, I'm definitely going to be talking about Kahneman's work, so I'm sure it'll come up. :)
When I started programming for full time employment, I discovered that I couldn't listen to music with lyrics while working. My guess was that I was borrowing language processing to do code. That may sound super obvious (they call them programming languages), but it wasn't just the literal typing of code that lyrics distracted me from - I also couldn't lay out algorithms or break the tasks into functional pieces or do basically any design work while language was happening in my ears. I could listen to instrumental music without a problem, though - in fact it helped drown out the talking of coworkers in the inevitable cubicle environments that seemed purpose built to ruin productivity.
How would someone with both aphantasia and no inner monologue fit in here? Is the Visuospatial Sketchpad not affected by the aphantasia and the phonological loop not affected by the lack of inner monologue?
First video of yours I actually have any preexisting knowledge of. Can't wait.
FLYING TOASTERS Gods, that was so long ago...
Additional random fact: I have executive functioning issues and I also can't daydream. I can't sustain a daydream so the closest I have are extremely deliberate longform narratives almost like I'm writing a short story, and the slightest distraction boots me out of it completely.
I can, however, do something that seems a bit like daydreaming, but only as I'm extremely relaxed and half-asleep. The boundaries of my thoughts fall off and my internal monologue becomes incoherent and less bound by rules (of grammar, syntax, semantics) and nonsense monologues run through my head, along with vague images that go along with it all.
However, if I'm stirred even slightly, aroused out of that half-sleep, the "rules" snap back into place and I quickly forget whatever I was thinking in that nonsense headspace.
I think this has to do with brainwave patterns. I can't daydream unless I'm in Stage 1 sleep, i guess. I think that could also explain why I can't meditate or get into what people call "flow states".
I think it was with driving I first really became aware of the factor of the intensity of a potential distraction. Loud music renders me completely unable to process and react properly to an unexpected situation. (Not like a kid suddenly running out into the street, that type of thing is automated, but like police redirecting traffic, using signs and signals that are not part of my everyday driving-experience.)
you had my attention as soon as you brought up Memento. Really interesting video and now I feel super called out for being one of those awfully irresponsible people that listen to youtube videos while driving...
Listening to UA-cam whole driving is a different level from watching/glancing at the video while driving. It's probably more akin to talk radio.
Hi Cass. You mentioned The Body Keeps Score in one of your videos, I'm pretty sure. Didn't that mention recovered memories? I can't find which video it was now.
If I'm remembering correctly, it was a recommendation from my friend who left an abusive relationship for dealing with aftershocks. I have not read it myself, so it could include that.
Camouflaged cat! 18:09
Love your videos so much, your thoroughness really impressed me at the beginning and it still does 😋
I had a little thinking moment at around minute 13 and I thought "Would adding people who don't use phonology or visuals to remember things help differentiate how these types of memories work?" like surely the researchers thought abt that right? idk if that would even be helpful tho just a thought. anyways love your content! 💕💕💕
I think that's how some of the separability of the subsystems has been verified. Like people with specific deficits, visual or auditory, having more difficulty with certain tasks that load on the systems they have deficits with.
@@CassEris okay cool! yeah I was just trying to imagine how exactly functionally blind or deaf people would affect that but that's definitely beyond me, thank you for clarifying lol. Hope you're doing well! 💕
@@andier8245 Ah, yeah, gotcha. (If I'm remembering the research correctly) blind people still use the visuospatial sketchpad, primarily in the spatial sense.
@@CassEris wow, okay I would've assumed most blind people don't (just because of the name including the visual part) thanks for clarifying that (again lol)
I've been watching your video series on "12 Rules For Life" and laughing at how many times he needs citations, thank you for shedding light on how much he talks out of his ass.
I thought I'd also mention that your analogy (I think you said this in your secnd/thrd ep of 12 rules) of Lovecraftian character's minds being broken via understanding the horrible creatures' nature being similar to how it seems reading Freudian/Jungian 'breaks' or changes people's speech is funny and seems to hold true. I've been very lightly reading some books about the philosophy of ontology and the people surrounding the topic change their speech in a distinct way. I dunno if that's similar, just thought it seemed interesting:)
Would you say that there is a difference between sub vocalizing and reading without sub vocalizing?
I'm under the impression that there are ways to read where you do not hear the words, but rather experience it through your imagination.
I would think the difference between sub-vocalization and not is if it would tie up the phonological loop. I'm very married to my internal dialog for reading (and thinking), but a couple times have been able to ever so briefly just have the words come in. And then I realize it's happening, so of course it stops, and am left with the feeling that it'd be a much quicker way to read lol
@@CassEris yeah, you're on the right track. That loop you catch yourself in... Would be nice to keep that on cruise control. Haha
Good taste in music!:o
cool subject, i highly recommend u to cover more different subjects like this one, not just JP's stuff
Jordan B. Peterson.
Thank you! We gonna get a talk of memory and trauma in the future?
Yep. It's in the sooner stack than some other topics.
*Cass Eris* hay quá ad ơi
I deliberately chunked numbers for recall on my IQ test, and i also engaged the visual sketchpad to put the numbers into my memory better too. Despite doing all that extra work, and similar deliberate control processes for all the tasks of the test, my working memory score was in the "severely impaired" range.
Does this mean my score would've been even worse if I just passively listened to the numbers and were less deliberate throughout? Or possibly better? (Like, let's say my problem with working memory actually lies within the episodic buffer or the central executive, so maybe NOT rehearsing and chunking and sketching could have freed up the other parts and allowed for a better recall and performance?)
That thing I struggle with! Thanks ADHD!
I hated doing working memory tests in psych :(
It does sound like a mild form of torture.
Me too, and I had to help pilot some for fellow grad students.
Long term memory next pls
5:16 More like working _memery_ .
Processing.
PROCESSING.
you said zerg, I'm guessing you've either played or are aware of StarCraft.
It has spread as a concept a long way from Starcraft by now. You can pick it up and then have to do some etymological research to get back to Starcraft.
You are quite correct. I was always partial to having a fleet of Protoss carriers (impracticality be damned), so the zerg rush was never appreciated.
Damn! Didnt get first...one of these days. 😎
Nice, more of good stuff less JBP
Is there a reason you always look baked? Is that natural? If so I am jeally. I'm wondering from your skin color though if you are actually a vampire, I suppose that's the most logical conclusion, cause no one who really looks that young could talk about things like this, young people are stoopid. I don't know if I'm old enough to be called old, but I'm old at heart, in my heart I always keep one foot in the grave.
She doesn't look baked.
Vampiric, fine, maybe, lot's of white ppl look vampiric. But why baked? Is it because she doesn't have giant manga eyes?
I'm blazed right now lolz. I wonder... If a vamp sucks your blood when your toasted... Does the vampire become baked afterward? Lol
I saw some of her older videos. I think she looks better in these newer ones. Maybe she's just getting more comfy at doing these vids... Maybe she's doing better production quality... Maybe she's manipulating the lighting a certain way... Maybe she's like Keanu reeves or Paul Rudd and just ages better with time lol. Who knows... Maybe all of these things?
Oh snap... I figured it out. She's kidnapped the lobster boy and she's slowly drinking his sweet sweet lobster blood. Admit it Cass! It's why he's gone right now isn't it???