Neither princess was raised with proper royalty knowledge. Or raised much at all, really. I blame her dad and honestly, kinda? I blame the trolls. Papa troll's advice was literally "SUPRESS EVERYTHING!!!" and "LIE TO THE YOUNGER ONE" and TERRIFYING baby Elsa into thinking all her emotions would kill people with flames.
She was basically abandoned with little social interaction except for that short time when she was a kid so her brain didn't really develop properly. Cut her some slack
To be honest, I think Elsa causing a snowstorm in the middle of summer actually solidified her rule. Anyone who would have been inclined to revolt, either to establish a Republic or to make himself King, would be utterly terrified into submission by Elsa’s powers.
Yeah, true. I mean someone could theoretically try to sneak up and kill her a la Hans, but the consequences of failure are particularly terrifying, and the likelihood of failure particularly high for anything but a very long game.
Who the Hell wants a Republic when the sovereign has ice ❄ powers to solve your economic problems and military issues? She even has snow golems for manual labour.
I know it’s not “Disney”, but you’d still totally have the plotters who engineer a plan to assassinate her. Her powers don’t make her invincible and there would be people unafraid of them.
@@Derkosson I feel like even the peasants would be like that. Sure peasants revolted but usually against the lords. So in a land without Nobles to try and use it against you, super powers would be a really good plus for both the Royalty and the peasants. Strong King usually meant less war and more peace and prosperity.
I think the issue with this kingdom stems from the way Disney treats royalty in general. They are there it look pretty and be important, while forgetting that royals are meant to be leaders.
It would make sense if they made constitutional monarchies, but from the way the films present it they seem to be absolute. All of this could be avoided if they simply mention a prime minister of sorts, even just once in a movie lol
Yeah but there are also other people, there were nobles and lords who owned land and were making decisions on a small scale. Kings and queens made important decisions (most of the time) but they weren't alone
How didn't anyone know about Elsa's powers sooner? I mean royal children are constantly looked after due to their importance as successors and children can't hide anything for more than 30 seconds. You can't tell me that none of the staff noticed or outright saw her using the abilities she was established to have been born with! The incident involving Elsa accidently hitting Anna left A TON of evidence behind that SOMEONE had to clean up! On top of that, they made a point to reduce the staff! That means possible witnesses released into the populace!
I feel like the staff knew, which is why the king wanted to reduce the number of people working there. The staff members probably kept it to themselves or it just became a nasty rumor/legend in the kingdom that couldn't possibly be true. Elsa left evidence, but her ice could eventually melt, and no one (as far as we know) has ever seen her do it besides her family as a child.
Also Anna would be a terrible ruler because she wasn’t trained to be a ruler as a kid. She would need like 7 more years to learn everything there is to do with being a queen.
All royal children are taught how to rule and what they need to know regardless of whether they're the crown heir or not, in case something wipes out the family but that one surviving monarch.
@@johnnotrealname8168just because he met locals doesn’t mean he could read, scripture or anything else for that matter. Also the lack of explicit details on faith in the movie (by comparison to say hunchback of note dame) could mean anything happened in the history of that world. Hell, arandel could be a catholic country, or an orthodox one, or hell, some reformed pagan religion that doesn’t exist in our world (since the country itself doesn’t). Simply because the kingdom takes influence from Norway doesn’t make it a one to one comparison in any meaningful way.
Something I’d really like to know is, is Arendalle like a city-state kingdom? Because it seems like it’s just the castle, local town and (formerly) a bridge
Personally I wish it was a more expansive kingdom--mainly for aesthetics and culture, but it would also fall in line with Runeard's colonial motivations. And thinking back on it, I imagine Arendelle is basically a colonial kingdom (a "New Scandanavia"), since we have no idea where the kingdom people originated from and the Northuldra look more like Native Americans than the Sami people.
@@OpticalSorcerer before frozen 2, I would’ve just said Norway (Hans being from the southern Isles seems like it COULD be Denmark), but frozen 2 really messed things up. It’d be easier if Disney just stated that it was high fantasy (ie: different world, not earth). But I agree with u, would’ve liked more lore too
@@Eclipse-mf6hc I always considered it to be high fantasy, but they could've gone deeper with it rather than trying to stick to a specific time period and then trying to nail it to a group of cultures. The concept art for Frozen definitely would've worked better if they wanted it to feel like a real location in Northern Europe. The high-fantasy setting definitely could've explained stuff like Elsa's modern fashion. It reminds me of how I kinda pictured "The Little Mermaid" being a fantasy location inspired by Spain, given Ariel's red hair (which could be found anywhere, but I've heard that Spain is a country that's known for redheads), the Kingdom looks a bit like Cordoba, and production took inspiration from Mediterranean countries. Of course, the linguistics of the film contradict that entirely, but I digress... I usually enjoy how video games do high fantasy, and hopefully Disney will take inspiration from them in the future.
@@OpticalSorcerer yeah, I think frozen’s almost definitely high fantasy, but it just feels hard to distance it from our world (for me at least) because it has a Norwegian aesthetic. The little mermaid is a whole other thing though; u get ppl saying it’s set in Denmark which it’s not (I’m Danish-Australian, the most Danish part of that movie was Eric’s name), I assumed it was set in the Mediterranean. I’d love to see movies from Disney that are just unabashedly high fantasy, Wish’s given me some hope in that area
@@Eclipse-mf6hc My issue is that high fantasy stories, while sometimes going for a modern aesthetic (similar to some Final Fantasy games, though others do low fantasy), are usually "generic European," so I'd enjoy seeing more high fantasy stories with a specific European influence. "Wish" is inspired by Spain, so it'll be interesting to see how it goes!
The main issue I have with the movie is when the villain was revealed. If his motive was to kill the queen, why did he not take the opportunity in the ice castle?
Because he wanted to be seen as reasoning with her. He wanted to bait her gradually into getting more and more dangerous. So that when he killed her, it would look like he had no choice and people would be on his side. No one had been hurt up untill that part. You can't just kill a queen cuz they have the possibility of being dangerous. Also you don't just kill a powerful witch if you want their magic broken, that's a sure way to curse a place. And we did find out only Elsa had the power to reel it in. He didn't know if killing her before she breaks the spell would make it worse. You'd be blamed. Also Anna was still in play from his pov at that point in time. He wanted to make it look like he was trying to help everyone, be a caring leader (hence why he was passing out blankets and aid, and also why he got the fires stoked up for Anna, just to pour water over them)
He did, you see him look up at the chandelier and move the crossbow up at it She'd die, but it'd look like an accident where he was trying to stop a guard from shooting her. Optics do matter in this situation
Hans was originally meant to be Anna love interest in the first draft of the first movie. Have you seen that villain Elsa video? In that video, villain Elsa talks about how Admiral Westergard cared for Anna. Hans full name in the movie is Prince Hans Westergard of the Southern Isles. Just the fact that the villain of the first movie is named after Hans Christian Anderson, the first part of the author name is weird enough.
Also something I never understood when they locked the castle because of Elsa’s power, why did they locked Anna in the castle too. She doesn’t have any powers so……why ? Also are we not going to talk about Kristof’s literal KIDNAPPING ? Like, it’s not like he was alone, he was with a group of…huuuuh…..ice cutters ??(sorry I am not sure what those dude were doing….). So technically the trolls literally abducted him. And if it wasn’t the case why show him with a group of adults, why not just make him an abandoned kid, or better, not show him in the intro, that would have been better I think….
@@rockhistoria2537 i mean makes sence. In scandinavic cultures any magical or non human creature are known to have non human morality. Different mythological creatures of the northern europe are literally known for stealing kids and leaving fake ones to the parents so
I am so anti troll that sometimes I wish they were in a different film entirely. They don't make SENSE. "Fixer Upper" is filler, not a reasonable song, and Grandpabbie gave Elsa a lifelong complex as a 6-year-old! HISHE's solution of making Elsa one of the X-Men made so much more sense 😁
They didnt really lock in Anna too. The books that were published did show that Anna ventured out to the city or rode her horse. Remember she had no issues riding her horse in the movie, so she has been outside and gotten lessons.
At the end of Frozen 2, Elsa and Anna became some sort of joint theo-monarchy, with Anna being Queen of Arendell and Elsa being some sort of Shaman Queen who lives between the arendellians and the tribespeople. I beleive they did this so that both Anna and Elsa can be rulers simaltaneously. But heres a better idea. They should have had an arrangement where Elsa is the Queen in winter and Anna is the Queen through summer when Elsa has to rest. This references the seasonal motif of the sisters, and the legend of Persephone and Desponia, two sisters who appear on earth one during summer and one during winter.
I also noticed that in frozen 2 Arendelle looks totally different. I don’t know if it’s just me but it looks like it has like a whole different layout to the first Frozen movie 🫢
I mean in the first version we mostly just see it under a bunch of ice and snow. (And real-world-wise, I think they *really* managed to punch up their landscape game, what with their graphics and the seasonal variation thereof.)
Yeah. In the first the castle was kind of a peninsula in the middle of a like/river with mountains more in the distance and mainly flat land/small rolling hills close by. Elsa and Anna have to travel a while before scaling the mountain range in "front" of the castle. In the second it seems the castle is backed up to a massive Cliffside with the river in front and the magic lands directly north, I believe
Frozen is the typical example of a story that a first glance is good, but if you think about it for more than a second, is terrible. The more you think about it, the worst it gets. The kingdom is nonsensical and the same is true for the characters. I rather read a fanfic when Hans is the good guy cursed by the trolls (if a fan theory has more solid ground than the original story there is an abvious problem) and Elsa is the villain.
the idea of hans being cursed by the trolls makes way more sense tbh as the twist villain seems to come out of nowhere as 2 secs before he was literally caring and worrying about anna, like people snap but not that quickly . what is this inconsistency with him ?! and elsa being a villain was intended in the original storyline with let it go being her villain song basically saying she couldn't careless about her kingdom or anything at all.
This is what I've always wondered as well. Who ruled between the time of their parents' death and Elsa's coronation?! WHO? Nobody? Elsa? How did anything function?
Maybe the military did. Who knows, maybe they just assumed command during that time, yet this would also align with them not being able to officially crown a new king or queen.
Usually, kingdoms might have an board of governors to occupy the role of leaders until the next in succession can take the role of the reigning monarch. Or at least that's what happened here in Brazil when Pedro I left, and Pedro II was too young to be emperor.
Yeah, I was wondering that myself. The two answers above me, the military and a board of governors, make sense. The problem is that as this video, and the whole plot of the first movie, prove, this kingdom appears to have no such policy put in place for someone like that to rule in the absence of a king/queen. If they did, Hans wouldn't be able to take charge the way he did.
I've always felt like the franchise needed an honorable uncle that served as regent until Elsa came of age and would temporarily serve when both had to leave again in Frozen 2. Then always step down due to his honorable nature. That would keep the continuity of leadership while also adding another family memeber to develop future stories with.
I think Frozen II had the whole colonial plot as a response to criticism in the first movie. There’s a page about it in “Know Your Meme”. A bunch of (largely American) internet users thought the Sami were dark skinned/“ethnic” because they’re considered “native” to Scandinavia. They hated Kristoff being blonde. Even though the Sami are European ethnic group and look Northern European. That’s why the “Sami” inspired tribe in the sequel look more like Pocahontas than Anna/Elsa. Trust me. I’ve met some Sami and they’re Nordic looking AF.
It's hilarious how these woke idiots think that native automatically means non white. Like there are no white natives of Northern climates because all "natives" by their definition have to be melanated.
I also don't think there was any allusion to Kristof, specifically, being Sami, either! All we knew is Kristoff being an Ice chopping apprentice. (I do have a couple of Finnish friends who are Sami or at least partially, and there is a look, but if I am correctly informed (and I do NOT claim expertise AT ALL) there is a tribal admission process, and my friend was did not feel qualified to join in. (As for looks I believe Americans would call her dirty blonde. And I am stopping right now because I am well aware I am ABSOLUTELY NOT qualified to comment on any more of this!!)
I also thought this the first time I watched this movie. Even like...who is making the meals? Who is dressing the royal family (Anna was *not* getting into that coronation day dress by herself)? Who, precisely, is telling the guards to open the gates as Elsa sings? Who has been ruling the kingdom until Elsa came of age? It's silly but it makes you think😂
Exactly! He's the one doing all the work, providing for the working class while all the rich nobles are warmand cozy in their castles with all those fireplaces. They didn't know Hans was going to kill Anna. No one could've inferred that from one sentence from Anna. Even if he tried to kill Elsa (he could claim he thought it was they only way to stop her given the severe circumstances, and the people were terrified at Elsa's ice powers), they would not have that bad of an impression of him. Wouldn't attacking or arresting a foreign emissary, much less royalty, be seen as extremely offensive from a diplomatic aspect? Even though it's clear that they've committed crimes, but communications in the 1800s weren't as good compared to now. The Southern Isles and Weselton could've downplayed the severity or deny and accuse Arendelle of slander. Oh, and they and other nations would've been affected by the snowstorm too, and who knows how much they lost in lives and trade... Elsa, it's not good to make so many enemies so early in your reign. Added with the fact that you've just resumed communications with foreign countries whose diplomats were witness to your little ice show... Sure, you've got ice powers, but what is ice compared to treaties and declarations governments sign, empty ports and shops, coffers and stores running dry, and a crowd of angry peasants at your door?
@@crystall2398 I mean what the fuck are you going to do if they do that? Elsa can create life in her snow and as we see at the end of the movie can create a localized snow to keep them going even in warm weather. These snowmen who cannot easily be taken down and even if you chop off bits they can just reform. And she can make as many as she wants. Cool you have 10,000 men, she flash freezes them into a lovely ice sculpture garden outside of her castle. No one is picking a fight with the snow queen who on an accident flash froze her own kingdom and put it into a several day long blizzard. Why would they want that focused on them?
@@TheLastSane1Even so, they would not be friendly, and it would be the word of a shut-in sorceress and her potentially undead sister, versus the word of more reputable nobles like Wesselton and Hans (who were sent to the coronation despite not being THE top dogs in their kingdoms).
@@TheLastSane1 As soon as Elsa's powers were exposed, you can bet there were sentiments that she caused the storm her parents died in. "Their princesses" have been too detached and mysterious to have kept the level of trust and loyalty shown in the movies. The subjects are just kind of a big, adoring hivemind instead of acting like people. They could even believe Elsa was a changeling: an impostor. There's no way those years of isolation didn't give rise to suspicion even before the coronation. The kingdom could have, and would logocally have been, a source of drama for a couple of movies instead of solely focusing on the sisters' psychological issues. It's just poor writing to have them all be completely, enthusiastically, undyingly loyal to the sisters and not having even a small "Hans" faction (or even a Wesselton faction, since his home kingdom seems to be a well-established trade ally).
I feel as if you'd like Elena of Alvador- a lot of it is about politics and how a princess has to manage a kingdom (queendom?), plus there's a council, and she actually has to learn how to deal with other kingdoms, on top of dealing with family issues (and her cousin, who is in the city council, also worked for the big bad before the start of the series).
I feel like avalor has the most established kingdom out of any disney kingdom, since the whole series is about elena learning to deal with politics before she becomes queen.
That’s true, she has the council, which helped her make decisions until she became queen, family problems and problems in the city as they have to adapt, and then as you said there is the cousin, who schemed with the villain who pulled the majority of the strings, and eventually he was found out.
My personal theory is that Hans is the real hero of the story. Elsa and Anna are clearly both terrible monarchs. So when one runs away and the other chases after her (alone, no less), it's Hans who steps up and takes care of the kingdoms citizens in their hour of need. Later, when he realises Elsa is responsible for the curse, he's the one with the courage to make the tough decision and remove her as a clear and present threat to the kingdom. The worst thing he does is betray Anna's trust but honestly - the girl has already proven to be completely naive and incompetent as a ruler. So letting her die, as cruel as it was, is still the best move for the sake of the kingdom. In short, Hans got done dirty.
Thats an interesting way to say it, because whenever I hear people call Hans ''bad'' it can be flipped easily as ''reason'' or ''ambition'', Hans was said to be finding his own place and when shown he IS a good leader by looking out for the people, why should HE be the villain? I am just saying, they could just make a villain in the second movie being foreshadowed in the first
In other words from a power dynamics point of view, what Prince Hans did to seize the city-state/kingdom of Arendelle from realistically politically incompetent rulers is regrettable but necessary, it’s very Machiavellian and I don’t mean it in a malicious way it’s more of a description only
And realistically hans wouldnt have killed Anna as he needs Anna to gain control over the kingdom, if I was hans I'd marry anna gain power banish Elsa's for almost killing everyone and make sure the kingdom of Arendelle has an actual government
Personally I do wish Arendelle got better worldbuilding, though since most of Frozen and Frozen 2 take place outside of it, I guess it's not meant to be deeply fleshed out.
It's pretty much confirmed that the Frozen I was clearly a one-off deal but it's success forced a franchise. So it makes sense that the worldbuilding is all over the place.
I love what you said about magical powers being normal/logical in the context of the story. I hate it when you point out weird things or things that are just flat out plotholes, just for some jerk to come in and say something like 'you expect logic in a story with magic and wizards?'. YES. Of course I do. Just because a work of fiction uses fictional elements in its story doesn't mean internal consistency can go out the window-- established powers and magic can have logical repercussions, and magic space wizards doesn't mean that plotholes and logical inconsistencies can be ignored.
A lack of realism does not excuse the lack of logic. I can take something being completely unrealistic and fictional, that's the whole point of FICITON. I can't take a lack of logic though, unrealistic and fictional things can (and usually do) make sense as long as they remain logical
I love to listen and think about worldviews of various people. The way I judge them all is based on internal consistency and how well they align with facts I'm aware off. If we take the facts we can know about this world and apply a bit of wiggle room as people prioritize the reliability of sources differently, then we can end up with various world views that are true in a sense that they are internally consistent and they have a plausible alignment with the known facts. When we take a fictional world then the known facts of that universe change. But in most cases the story is built in a way that it still follows logic and human nature. So the existance of magic just changes stuff like how the world came to be and how natural science works. Plots, politics, people needing a place for sleep and people needing a place to grow crops and all those things still apply because they are a consequence of logic and human nature.
As a Norwegian i can a agree on that. In real life Arendal is in south Norway. The real place of the kingdom. So yes the kingdom does exist. Sadly what happened in Frozen 2 happen in real life. The Sami people(the indigenous people of Scandinavia) was forced from many of their territories. And Hans kingdom is Danmark if you didn't know.
Aren’t the Sami’s “Indigenous” status more political than actual nativeness? Aren’t Norwegians/Swedes also “native” to Scandinavia? They’re not “native” to Nigeria, India or Japan.
@@orrorsaness5942 The Sami were more prominently featured because the first Frozen faced online backlash for not being "diverse" enough. There's an entry on "Know Your Meme". Kristoff (who is Sami) being blonde made some people mad. Despite being a European ethnic group many (American) internet users acted like the Sami are dark skinned/"ethnic". But they're European people and look European like any other Scandinavian. 1840s Scandinavia did not look like 2st century New York City.
@@alexisschiffer4830No, Norwegian are native to the Southern part of Norway. The capital of both Norway and Sweden is in the south while north you go, it's only forest and disconnect from the rest of the country. Sami people are basically cousins of the Finnish and Estonia people (Uralic people family). Sami people in Norway live in the northern part of Norway along the border of Finland. Norwegian, Danish, and Sweden are a descendent of Vikings (Scandinavian people family). Vikings homeland is in the southern part of Scandinavia, they never went up north where the weather get much more cold and extreme. The northern part has always been Finnish, Sami and Lappland people homeland. Research said that it was not until 18th century that Scandinavian (Norway and Sweden) people, the Native of Southern Scandinavia region begin to colonized the Northern part and and in the 19th century began the forced assimilation of the Sami and Lappland people to the rest of the Scandinavian as part of the Scandinavization policy by the Norwegian and Swedish authorities.
Frozen 2 is actually a copy-paste of Norway history. The difference between the movie and the actual history is no reconciliation with the Sami people history. A hydroelectric power station was built on the Altaelva River in Norway from 1979 to 1981, and the controversial Virdnejavr Dam flooded a Sami village and forest in Northern Norway, disrupting traditional hunting and herding. In fact, in 1609, King Christian IV, the King of both Denmark and Norway wrote that he believed the Sami people were adept at magic, (so they were dangerous) and no mercy should be granted in cases involving Sami sorcery. Nordic missionaries confiscated or destroyed Sami shamanism religious items and sites and built churches to supplant Sami shamanism.
Why can't Anna become the queen instead of Elsa since she's has problem with her ice powers for years after she accidentally attacked Anna with her powers and no one trains her of how to control them. I know Elsa is the oldest sibling so she's takes the throne but considering she was locked up for years and no one help during her childhood. Also one thing az well is that tried the parents look like the good guys when they locked up Elsa in her room without anyone to help of how to control them.
Agnarr gave Elsa advice based on his life as a royal: don't let anyone see who you are, project an image of who you want them to see and who they want you to be. As such, he probably thought Elsa becoming queen meant that she'd learn to be more controlled, especially since she seemed more logical and less emotional than Anna.
@@OpticalSorcerer Thats kinda unwinded by the fact that the reason Anna is so illogical and all over the place is because she’s forced into isolation and her energy is pent-up. If they just manage her properly, she could learn to be a better ruler as she doesnt have the threat of ice powers to get in the way. She’s known to be smart, negotiable, curious, understanding, and kind. She would be a wonderful ruler but thats stunted because their parents seem to only focus time and energy into controlling Elsa and not on raising both to be normal adults
@@seraphywang4638Considering Elsa is their first child and she has a VERY unique situation, I don't fault their parenting skills too much--also taking into account that many medieval royals spend more time being raised by the staff, and Anna and Elsa still seem to be close with their parents, so they tried, at least.
I feel like realistically the royals probably would've just kept pumping out kids and praying that one of them doesn't have ice powers. No, they just left the future monarch to rot and expected all to go perfectly fine
i always though elsa was just let back to be queen because of fear, i mean if she gets angry who can stop her, also kristoff not just doesnt have chemistry with Anna by the little we know about him he would hate to be royalty and knows nothing of diplomacy, i would had like if they didnt made hans a villain at least he seemed as kind of a competent ruler
I hate them as a pairing, no chemistry, no purpose... Kristof has no purpose as a character other then being romantic interest and he fails horribly at that 😂
I mean he could bring the view of the smallfolk, the people who live day by day outside that the royals would not have personal experience with. Its helpful.
@@Pirates.27 He's there purely to denounce love at first sight, which is kind of dumb bc you would think arranging a marriage would be ideal for securing the royal line of succession...and if a foreign prince and the younger princess are willing, then it's just an added bonus, and they could get to know each other and adjust their relationship after marriage. But of course "denouncing tropes is quirky, and medieval royalty follows the marriage philosophies of modern commoners"
As someone who loves learning about history and politics, it always saddens me when fairytale like movies have kingdoms that don’t make sense. Like it doesn’t have to be Uber-realistic or highly focused on, just make it make sense at a glance to people who know their stuff.
I think the most unrealistic part is how they cheered at Hans getting punched, and how he was seemingly punished. Like, from their perspective he seemed to be a hero and their first taste of a leader who actually cares about them. It was easily his word against Anna's regarding their conversation, as he could have "mistakenly thought she died" and she could have "had a delirious dream influenced by her witch sister's spells". Heck, they could have thought Elsa was a necromancer on top of being an ice witch. But no, they just see the dead princess and the sorceress depose the guy who had saved most of their lives by letting them into the castle to warm up, and they assume those two were the good guys and not just out to regain permanent power after goodhearted Anna was taken out of the way and resurrected as the witch's thrall.
Oh, yes. The worldbuilding in this movie was bonkers. The attempt to hide Elsa’s powers makes good political sense, as it’s putting it very mildly to say that she’s a walking reusable suitcase nuke without the disadvantages of nuclear fallout. I mean, she has the ability to submerge the world into magical winter and conjure up armies of snow-golems. Practically speaking, every other prince in the world would have a motive to either kill her or kidnap and brainwash her. And killing would be safer. But her parents would probably also kind of want to develop the powers for themselves, secretly. If it weren’t for the fact that, as someone else observed, being actually able to keep the secret is basically out of the question. Unless they twigged to it when she was an infant, killed any witnesses, and moved her out to the back of beyond with a staff of one or two. And why is there no aristocracy? Or rather, they’re there, seemingly, since someone showed up to the ball. But why do they have no opinions? Aristocrats are… not known for their diffidence. And that why-would-Hans-think-he-could-have a-claime-on-the-throne thing is bothersome. By all rights he would have to stick around long enough not only to marry Anna but possibly also have children with her for that to stick. One needn’t assume she would be overthrown by democratic ideas. That’s a fairly recent development that people would do that. Though their clothing is 1800s, so maybe. But certainly being overthrown in favor of another king would be a concern. Handwave, handwave, handwave, we have catchy songs.
Royals could keep their sexual lives private so this is possible, plus it could be made into an old wive's tale. 18th Century, they had little influence in most places. There was a bureaucracy of lower class people to govern things. I find it difficult to believe he could do it so quickly, and in a European country in the 19th Century but it is possible to usurp the Throne.
Tbf their mom and dad are complete morons who completely misinterpreted the trolls cryptic but still easily understandable message and both set up to sea to die horribly All of issues with Arendelle are gone now. Elsa's powers are busted. Lets ignore all of the "Ice can do anything abilities" and she could do stuff as easy as just give her kingdom spring all year round with the perfect climate. If by some miracle the perfect spring is just too hot for you you're good. How cold do you want it. Their economy gets a bump. They get to grow all year round, fish all year round etc. etc. Then once you get on the ice can do anything side of things she can just create an entire workforce of ice golems. No one ever has to look like a bum. Everyone will be on fleek. She can uno reverse card any nation. Want to go to war with Arendelle she can make an ice clone, imbue it with enough of her power and intelligence to just walk into any kingdom and give it eternal winter. Infact she manipulates heat not cold which is how she takes away the winter from Arendelle in the first place. Realistically if you are an ice kingdom she could just absorb all of the cold air and make it a desert wasteland and leave. And you'd be f'd
This is honestly the thing I think most about when it comes to Frozen. Wouldn't there be like a cousin or some kind of noble person who had a claim to the throne?? Also, during the climax of the movie, several foreign delegates form around Hans to take control of Arendelle, as if any of them had any say over the people of the kingdom. It is really weird.
My guess is that any relatives of Anna and Elsa are so distant that they’re considered part of foreign royal families, and thus do not live in Arendelle. Hell, it’s possible that Hans is actually a distant cousin of Anna’s, explaining why people don’t freak out over him being regent but also why Anna has no clue who he is.
Who tf ruled the kingdom after their parents died and the princesses were still locked? Who ruled for 3 years after their death? Since she just got crowned 3 years later.
Perhaps the Kingdom's military forces held way more power than what was presented. They would have the ability to keep everyone in line, and with no one monitoring them for so long it seems they had to have some level of autonomy. Yet at the same time, they can't exactly just usurp the throne, officially make decisions of governance, or take up political positions. In Frozen 2, the Arendelle guard was hesitant to help Anna destroy the dam, despite them directly being under her control. Sure, it had been a long time, but they should still know who had the final say imminently. Perhaps this suggests they did indeed have some level of autonomy. I personally think it would be kind of interesting if Arendelle was essentially a stratocracy for a decade.
This also explains why the military of Arendelle was fully willing to kill their own queen, and in Frozen 2 why they were going to immediately attack a group of people clearly not from the woods everyone was trapped in, not once considering the group might be sent by royalty because the army does not care if said person who seemed threatening was clearly not from their ranks. Anna and Hans also hid from the guards for some reason, which doesn't make much sense with her being the princess, unless they held significant authority. Runeard must have been some sort of military commander who proclaimed himself King, and thus held legitimate power. He even dressed in military attire unlike everyone else. In fact, nothing in either movie suggests that after Runeard the role of King or Queen was nothing but ceremonial. Runeard being as militaristic as he was portrayed might have simply ruled using the military. Foreign powers could have been unaware of this since Arendelle is rather insignificant, and maybe the guard saw the opportunity to use Hans as an excuse to kill a powerful rival, being the ice queen. Maybe Arendelle is like North Korea, anyone who is caught acting unsatisfied with the rulers is dealt with, which explains why everyone seems so happy.
Also given how servants tend to be involved a lot in the lives of royalty, it would be impossible for a few of them not to know about ice powers. The educators would’ve spent a lot of time 1 on 1 with Elsa and would clearly notice something up. Given how little the leave the castle they would’ve been reduced to figureheads has whoever is in charge of the kingdom when the dad dies would’ve already built immense power around themself.
Something else that looks weird in the first movie is that Elsa becomes Queen regnant at 18 since she was crowned 3 years later at the age of 21 but they made it look like she became Queen once she got crowned and coronations practically take place 1 year after you take the throne,so why 3 years?but I loved the movie anyway but there were so many holes that were not explained
Coronations are tricky, most coronations were unnecessary, to get technical they were meant to confer legitimacy (Practically speaking.) which was important during crises like the Hundred Years' War but by the 19th Century no-one was really going to challenge a European King's throne (I mean look at all the Germans running around.) so it was more ethereal and spiritual. Thus it confers the graces requisite for the carrying out of the Royal Office. I suspect Disney does not get any of this (For example the most important part of a Coronation is not putting Crowns on heads or baubles but the anointing which harkened back to King David.) or it could be like the Iberian Monarchies which do not Coronate their Monarchs (The Crown did not want it to seem like the Church conferred power and in Portugal King João, o Restaurador Crowned Mary Queen of Portugal and it was thought Blasphemous to be Crowned King.). In the 19th Century new Monarchies simply had an inauguration with the Constitution of the country. Edit: Gorblimey I forgot Hungary. In some countries like Hungary, Coronations were essential to the legitimacy of the King which is why IV. Károly, Apostoli Magyar Király was Coronated in Hungary but did not need to in Austria. If you want to read into that I recommend this paper: "THE LAST CORONATION: MYSTERY AND STRENGTH" (2017) By David A.J. Reynolds: ( hungarianreview.com/article/20170317_the_last_coronation_mystery_and_strength ). Edit2: They were also variable, they could be extremely simple especially with a King who could not care less about the ceremony like William IV.
It annoys me that the central motivation of the villain (that the spouse of an uncrowned monarch could inherit the kingdom) is incorrect. The spouse of a monarch does NOT become next in line if the monarch dies. That goes to the next oldest in the bloodline (since their system isn't based on sex). Probably a distant cousin. TL;DR: In an absolute monarchy, some rando can't legally take power by marrying and murdering the queen.
Even if Hans succeeded in having Elsa murdered, the throne would pass onto Anna, and after her whatever children she may have would be positioned as the heir apparent, not him. And even then it's not like he's a native nobleman descended from some displaced royal wayback, say Anna's second great-granduncle, he's still a foreign royal. Or maybe it's a James VI of Scotland scenario, where all known royal claimants in Arendelle part of This Particular House are dead, so can you loan us your king/prince real quick?! 🤣
I mean..it's supposed to be a self-indulgent white girl fantasy. An all-powerful victim running away from her responsibilities, prancing around in her castle with her like totally cute dress she made, and snapping her magic fingers at the end to solve the problem with zero accountability. Practicality and logic weren't even a blip in these people's minds 💀
What I never understood is that Elsa and Anna's parents died when they were kids and the castle's doors never opened until they were both adults. How has the entire kingdom not fallen apart in that time?
I mean Elsa was 18 when they died so the king and queen were probably raising her to rule but also kept feeding into the fear. So else knows how to rule but not the social side of it but looking at the first movie she clearly knew how to do all the proper behavior but her social anxiety got the better of her. For being 21 and not really had socialization she did fairly well
Part of the reason why Arendelle feels so simple in execution is primarily due to the Frozen stories simplified its writing during production. This is why we don't get worldbuilding elements that's not important to the plot. Back in the 2010 decade, the Frozen and Disney theorists had a lot of fun speculating these missing worldbuilding elements, and the vagueness of the Frozen world was really part of the fun. For example, I refuse to believe the moment Elsa was crowned as queen was when she was without governing experience. The film never states it, but by the way she conducts herself, it seems she knows some basic protocol. The missing parliament is most likely due to the simplication of the storyline of Frozen too. It may be important to worldbuilding elements, but the involvement of the parliament wasn't decided by the story team to be needed in the story to move its plot forward. Instead, we got the simple plot development of Anna suddenly assigning Hans to take charge of Arendelle during her abscense in the 1st Frozen.
@@paintingdreams290 Then who was running the kingdom when Elsa and Anna are small children and their parents are both dead? It makes more sense that there was a regent character that controlled the state while the girls were growing up. But to streamline the story down to just its needed bits they removed them.
@@paintingdreams290 its not just possible, its pretty much clear that it is. After all it seems like the monarchs power is not limited or reduced by any means, be it other governing bodies (like a parliament), or even other nobility. Hans, as regent, seems to be able to just command people around without anyone (except the duke of weaselton, a foreign monarch) questioning or opposing or having to approve his decisions. And its not even just small decisions too. Pretty sure sending a search party to get the queen back is a huge deal. Anna appointing a random dude as regent also shows its 100% an absolute monarchy, if there were other governing bodies in the mix, they'd need to decide whether or not they accept the guy as the regent. Instead, everyone goes along with whatever the queens sister said.
1:52 I don't think this is true. When they were kids I think it was implied that adults who were advisors to the king and queen ran the kingdom until they were ready. They didn't show that stuff because they thought it would be boring.
Okay this is actually something I had talked about on another video. Two things specifically, so the whole reagant thing where they had someone in charge of the kingdom until their father was old enough to be crowned would of course imply that they do have someone else managing the kingdom. The importance of this is that there is a good chance that someone had filled the role inbetween the time of the parents deaths and the time of Elsa's coronation. Of course we could only speculate because it is never once brought up about who was managing the kingdom between that time like the video suggests. This would have to be the case, otherwise the kingdom somehow was maintained despite there being no head of government. Secondly, the whole Weselton and Hans trying to assert control to take the throne is just really stupid. If we take it from a historical route, well the monarchies within that area of whatever place Arendale is based off of did have a system of succession revolving around some form of eldest child to throne as well as a counsel to assess any other candidates for the throne. So assuming Elsa and Anna are both dead and the endless winter is still going on, then there is literally no chance that either Weselton nor Hans gets the throne. The problem is that the overall issue of the endless winter will literally starve out the kingdom meaning they need resources or a way to leave to a place that has more resources. Hans' own family has a better claim to being the next ruler of Arendale. So firstly Hans is a prince which means his parents if they are alive are the reigning monarch and since Hans is like the 13th line to the throne, he therefore has 12 siblings that have more a claim to the throne. Any one of the 12 siblings more likely have more experience managing a kingdom, are more aware of relations with other kingdoms, and are more likely to actually know the laws. So even if Hans does technically fill the role as a monarch for Arendale, the endless winter will literally starve the place out. The most logical connection would be either Hans or the people force him to ask for assistance from his family. As soon as his family finds out, they will probably kick him off the throne and put one of his elder siblings in the role of Aredale's monarch. If they do not kick him off, then they will probably make a deal with him that his family is willing to give the kingdom of Arendale the aid they need in echange for Hans to hand over the monarchy to one of his siblings. A deal is the more likely choice because it actually puts pressure on Hans from the citizen of Arendale to actually do something. Now the other reason that the people would more than likely accept one of Hans' siblings is that in times of need people will accept what they can, but if they are able to get someone more qualified then they are almost always going to take the more experienced person. A similar thing with Weselton, whoever is higher ranking from where he is from will probably swoop in to take the kingdom. Also the only reason for the people above Weselton and Hans to grab the kingdom is purely out of just having more citizens, more resources, and better opportunities of trade locations. Also that due to what may be considered "unfortunate" circumstances they rushed in to "save" the kingdom which could justify their overtaking of Arendale by a different kingdom. This entire set of the monarchy dying out with the citizens hungry is a perfect situation for just about anyone with enough power and resources to take advatage of the situation without being questioned about it at all.
If Hans did take over the King would probably let him be. A son on a throne? @~?£ it why not? There would need be no deal. Norway was itself eventually given over to a Danish Prince (With a vote.).
After watching the first film with my Grandkids, my first though was that Arendelle is set now. They have a large port, what looks like a fishing fleet- and a Queen who can create ice and freeze fish at will.They can ship frozen fish anywhere- at a good profit. Not to mention year around sales of ice blocks for cooling. Aredelle as the premier Summer vacation spot too? Ice skating and skiing in July.......
It just occurred to me that when Elsa left and Anna ran after her and Hans was left that if he really were a good villain he would have taken over the kingdom at THAT time. It would have been good to reveal his villainy at that time🤯🤔
The thing is Hans wasn't in charge. He was more a community manager. He was the guy on the ground sure but there were still other people running the rest of the city-state affairs. Hans was just shown due to his being out there in the public and also nearest to Anna who was the main character.
i totally agree! yeah, it's a kid's movie, it's fantasy, yada yada. but there are still things you have to question. because there have been other kid's movies and shows that have addressed real-life issues with all its seriousness. frozen isn't a bad movie, but it has a lot of obvious flaws that _really_ stand out. another thing that really pisses me off about this franchise is how anna is supposed to be one of the main characters, yet never gets a proper resolution to her arc. i mean, the movie addresses elsa's trauma (although somewhat sloppily) but anna went through some serious shit too. she almost died when she was a child, had her memory wiped, grew up in complete isolation to the point where she fully trusts the first person she came into contact with, gets hurt by her sister's powers AGAIN, gets betrayed by her partner and left to die, and freezes while trying to save her sister. girl went through so much, yet it's hardly addressed. her relationship with elsa is also incredibly codependent because she seems to have abandonment issues, and this is not healthy. i was hoping for frozen 2 to revolve around anna and how she copes with all of these but no, she's again pushed to the side and only serves as an emotional support for elsa. she just fusses over elsa for the entirety of the movie, then in the end, elsa abandons her again and anna, who never dealt with her abandonment issues and trauma, just has to move on and rule a kingdom (something she's clearly not equipped to do).
I'm glad someone brought it up! 😂 I'd made myself assume the Elsa was ruling a little somehow, before the coronation so she'd have Some experience with everything..
Wow, I never thought of any of this before, or at least, not NEARLY this in depth 😆 I loved listening to it! It’s nice to take a deep dive into a story and really get a feel for the reality of existence there. Thanks a lot for the video! It was the perfect type of random 😄
I think it makes a lot more sense if the royal family is just a figurehead, and someone else is doing all the work. Like the only thing they really did was throw a party and meet foreigner ambassadors and stuff, which is exactly what a figurehead would do. People might just be pretending they are in charge for ceremony. In which case, having a magic ice witch as your figurehead likely has benefits for tourism and stuff.
More so military, especially if she gets powerful, enough to change the weather throughout a nation, if the neighbouring country suddenly has forever winter it will think twice about invading, theirs also large bodies of water like the water around copenhagen and english channel that suddenly can become an ice land bridge for easy troop movement. Freezing knights and the sort also be pretty advantegeous.
This was secretly a mega dark movie where the hero gets dragged away in chains at the end and you know that the entire kingdom is doomed. Mad respect for Disney for breaking from the happy ending thing.
@@jadecoolness101 We'll see in Frozen 3 how she handles that role. I know princes and princesses are trained to be kings/queens in case the destined rulers abandon the throne (death or leaving).
True but she still doesn't have the skills. Elsa didn't even have the skills to be a queen because she basically just ran away from her own kingdom and somehow caused a whole blizzard in the middle of summer
@@tasmeenbaker9912 That's partly why Anna is so fitting of being a queen. She's more social and friendly than Elsa. She won't make an escape to some mountain.
Oh it so is. They've literally admitted it in behind-the-scenes documentaries. The story was A WRECK. It's actually kind of sweet. (And literally amazing that it got as big as it did which I attribute ENTIRELY to the star power.)
After mentioning how small the Kingdom was, I decided to look up out of curiosity what was the smallest kingdom ever. As far as population and land mass. The smallest one in history was the Kingdom of Tavolara on an island of the same name West from Italy. It has the number for the population but I don't know if this is the modern-day population number or the population number for when it was first created or in the middle of his life span or what not. I just don't know when it had this population. The Wikipedia doesn't say. But for the population listed for this kingdom is 50 people. Total. And this is a real-life Kingdom. So it's possible for arrendale to have a very very small Kingdom with a small population. They probably have a bigger one than the real life when I just mentioned. Probably has a little bit more land too in farmland. Especially if they have another village or 2 they rule over.
Given how the kingdom only really survives by being utterly ignored by the Italian government (and legally existing on Italian territory), it can't really apply to Arrendale since they seem to be a reasonably sized, completely independent kingdom without an external power ruling/exercising suzerainity over them
You're right, it doesn't make much sense for this kingdom to be stable if with the Queen and Princess absent, a foreighn prince can be chosen to take over, this means Arendelle lacks a Govorner, Mayor, Ministers, hell even likeley a General for the military, Seriously even a General would be a better option of giving power to for the time, at least they would be a local. This likely means Arendelle doesn't have much of a military aside from the Guards.
Very good points, which I myself found a real failing aspects of the story. I mean honestly, how hard would it have been, to have Hans and Weaselton each have their own stooge in the Arendelle government, a regent trying to maintain power maybe looking for a military backup from a neighboring kingdom, a young ambitious lord who is friends with Hans, and is hoping to get close to the royal family, by Hans romancing one of the sisters. Why would they lock up the castle, and not just send Elsa away, if she herself, or her secret getting out are all that dangerous? If the trolls know about it, they might know where she would be safe, with other magical beings. Why have both the king and the queen go to look for answers to Elsa's "problem"? Why have either one of them? Didn't either of them have a relative or friend they could trust with the task? Why does no one ask, "Where are the queen's and princess' ladies in waiting", for heck sake?! LOL Anyway,...rant/off
The amount of thought they put into the world building of frozen is damn near close to zero They pretty much came up with only enough "vibes" to connect the musicals and the pretty ice scenes
Omg you said that this wasn't the most interesting topic to talk in a video but I JUST ADORE THESE VIDEOS. Like, there are not many political analysis of films, fictional kingdoms etc, and when one comes up, I. Am. Thrilled! Most people don't find it interesting, I adore it! Tysm!
I feel like the people of Arendelle were like a majority of people in late antiquity, they did not care who was in charge, as long as they had safety, security, and weren't taxed too hard
I never examined the inner workings of the kingdom until today. Thank you for this intriguing video, since the first time I watched it I was only focused on the ups and downs of the plot.
Well, there is a scene in 1st movie, where Hans was basically only character trying to solve the problems cause by Elsa and the storm. Sure, he might have done it so he could rule, but to be honest, like 150+ years ago, most countries around the world were ruled by people from german houses, despite german nations had significantly smaller area under control. Notably Habsburgs (outside Austria), Wittelsbachs, Winsdors (originally named Saxe-Coburg and Gotha). And about the people's happiness when Elsa is cheered when she is back in her role of queen ... well, what else they are supposed to do ? Imagine there is somebody you do not like and you actively try to go against them. I think there is reasonable assumption, they will be fighting back in some way, depending on level of conflict. So I think it is also reasonable, if you try to take executive power from a monarch, they will do whatever they can to keep it (maybe not every single monarch ever, but come in, it is as you said like 18th century, and the peasants saw royals 2nd day in their life, so they cannot know them much anyways). So essencially you would be against angry person who can create ice spikes and the worst conditions you can imagine (possibly even worse) as they want and you have no idea how to defend yourself if they target you. Plus you have no idea how to even attack and what will work. Will you try risking your life, or you would rather just seem happy, clap in the rhytm and hope you will not see them another 15 years?? :D
Considering an armed guard went after Elsa and she came back alive and instantly broke out of custody it would make her seem to impossible to fight. Especially if the guards tell about how she made an ice palace, ice golems, etc and it was only a lucky shot that got her caught. At that point you just try to keep the scary ice lady happy. I mean its clear that she instantly undoes whatever damage she did so maybe it could be argued that they sent out word that it was an accident and she was in better control now and so maybe it would elevate some of that fear but still no-one wants that smoke.
Theory: there's a cabal of men (possibly one woman in there) who pretended that their commands were coming from the Palace. They ran the place and moody stopped then because nobody had a better idea. They thought they could get Elsa to go back into isolation after the coronation. They keep Hand have power so that they have someone to blame for this mess. He might be King but as soon as he tried to make signify decisions, hunting accident, so tragic.
Well when the castle was shut up, I assumed that the dad still left and did king stuff with minister people who wore epaulettes and whatnot. And those people just kept running things. After all. They organized the coronation.
Even in the earliest plot when their parents were lost in the sea and pronounced dead, Arendelle wouldn't survive... i mean, a child leader? They either be manipulated by the royal courts to do their biddings or the neighbouring kingdoms would take advantages... and lets be real, with how young Anna is and how Elsa is so deep in her self wallowing, the citizens wouldn't want neither of them to be queens... they'll start a rebellion and cause internal war within the kingdom.
For what I understand the movie was really made in like one year, with constant rewritings and the CGI equivalent of reshootings, and then Disney gave a shit-ton of marketing to literally bury the inconsistencies of the plot.
I happened to watch these royal dramas back when I was small so I was wondering about that too when I saw Frozen. If both the queen and king died and both their young heirs were shut-ins, who the heck was in charge of the place? Why is no one assassinating them? Maybe the nobles liked the royal family that much or other nations let them exist there because there's either nothing worth taking or there's something there that should be contained. There is Elsa and there is their prosperous kingdom that can generate some cash. Why wasn't anyone doing the funny?
According to the movie, Elsa was coronated when she turned 21, that means her parents died when she was 19. Who was the reagent ruling for those 3 years? That isn’t even mentioned or alluded too.
Hans didn’t just take over the kingdom, he was appointed regent by Anna when she left the city to look for Elsa. His power was explicitly given by the heir to the throne, hence why the people and royal guards are willing to obey his orders.
Arguably the most unrealistic part is that it takes place in a small island in northern Europe and yet the havent been conquered my a major empire like the British empire or the Swedish empire.
God, thanks for bringing this up cause these were major gripes i had with frozen 1. The main antagonist just makes 0 sense because logically he should hold no power over the kingdom
Frozen 3 - Anna gets violently usurped by the people of Arendale while Elsa gets teased as a lesbian for making eye contact with a random female we never learn the name of. Olaf gets his own spinoff show where he is the new King of Arendale since he was made by Elsa and that technically makes him her "son".
Sounds like a job for some world builders to rework this kingdom into being able to feasibly function. You would think that your Queen being able to control aspects of the natural world and having magical rock trolls as part of your council would be a boon for the kingdom.
Honestly, Elsa abdicating the throne to Anna was probably her best decision as monarch. She doesn't have any romantic male partner that can give her an heir and thus pass on the throne to someone, which is essential in a hereditary monarchy. Anna's action to get Elsa back are entirely logical. She's the only one who can fix the winter storm and it makes sense that she would listen to someone like Anna. Even Hans tries to talk to Elsa, so it's responsible to leave the kingdom to talk to her, but you're right that who is to be in charge of her absence is another. There's no reason to believe that Christoph, who lives in 19th century Norway, would be illiterate. This is the 19th century, not 11th century. Through Protestant confirmation and education, people had started to learn to read if for no other reason than to read the Bible. Yes, he might not be cut out for all the practical effects of governance, but so what? He's not the real monarch, Anna is. She has basically just as much knowledge as Elsa when it comes to governance and I don't think she'd be any worse.
Every time I heard "that does not make sense" - that is exactly how things work. Modern equivalent of nobility is not a government. Nobility are owners. If we use the analogy of a kingdom to a company (which it actually is), Elsa and Anna are share holders. They don't run the kingdom. They own it. They are only needed to show to other kingdoms that somebody owns that land, so it is united against attackers. That is their whole job. To be in the castle
You have nobility but above that, you have Royalty. Royalty is the ruling class, so its more expected of royals to lead then having just nobility. The chain goes like this: Royals(Ruling family), Nobles (Owners and Knights), Clergy (i think?), Merchants, peasants.
@@IN-tm8mw Royalty is nobility. They are first among equals. Job of a king is to settle disagreements between nobles. King is basically a nobleman with added responsibility of a judge
With her ice powers, Elsa can rule like a tyrannical despot. nobody will have the courage to overthrow her since she can just freeze the entire kingdom. She could also justify her rule with the ice powers saying she was blessed to rule or something.
Arendelle feels like one of those weird, small principalities or city states that the Prussian Empire would have steamrolled through and added to their empire down the road. Might make for a fun sequel at least, lol
It could kind of make sense in the first movie because they didn't do much worldbuilding so you could always put in a self-consistent version that did make sense and not contradict the movie. The only weird thing is no one seeing the princesses for several years. This is going to be impossible unless your entire staff gave the secret service oath or whatever, but most of the rest of the world can make sense.
This could all have been solved with a throw away gag about some tired looking guy walking up and telling one of the royals that the monthly finances have been taken care of during that whole opening up the castle bit in the first movie, establishing that its not an absolute monarchy, but something in the middle.
That wouldn't make it not an Absolute Monarchy. The difference between an Absolute Monarchy, a Constitutional Monarchy, and a Ceremonial Monarchy is where the power is derived. In an Absolutist Monarchy the King is in charge of everything and is the primary source of power and in in this instance a King could absolutely appoint someone to manage finances instead of himself that doesn't change the dynamic as the king could get rid of such an advisory at any moment, a Constitutional Monarchy is where a King is limited by rules and stipulations usually imposed by a Parliament or Congress in which case the King could do the exact same thing or would have to get approval from the legislature, and lastly the Ceremonial Monarch is just there for show and might only be asked for some advise nothing more.
Maybe the peasants didn't seem to care about whoever was on the throne because they simply don't care. Guys are essentially governing themselves, as you said. I like the idea that while the royals are off making a big fuss about random BS, the peasants just run the place as normal. They're what made Arendell so nice not the royals.
Exactly. Everyone just goes about their life as normal according to local custom and common decency, and so what if their isn't some "supreme leader" or "council of superiors" lording it over everyone and imposing taxes and things. Perhaps Arendelle is subdivided into local villages or suburbs that appoint their own local "chief" to oversee things and make basic rulings. Perhaps every eligibile citizen is expected to serve, say, a year, in this role, as part of a rotational system? Or a local council is appointed or elected completely seperately from the Monachy? Or there are even judges appointed in a seperate system who have authority to make decisions in cases of civil disputes - by far the most common cause of conflict and need for mediation. Perhaps their is some sort of citizen militia or police force that runs via volunteers, or a short term of compulsory service, or even paid via a small local tax that everyone contributes? The idea that a small city-state can't run without a supreme leader or government making every decision is farcial. As you said "the peasants just run the place as normal. They're what made Arendelle so nice" - totally agree - they just have a functioning social system that runs without the monarch. The monarch of Arendelle's basic job is to maintain diplomatic relations with the neighbouring countries, and make sure they don't try to invade, as well as other diplomatic deals. This is exactly what we see in Frozen - that system has broken down and the neighbouring countries have finally become suspicious enough to come sniffing to see if there's any way they can take over (Hans) or perhaps get some economic exploitation going on (Duke of Weaseltown).
This is actually a great video. I see a lot of stories (especially YA fantasy) where the ruling governments makes very little sense. That’s probably because government, politics, and diplomacy are hard to understand, so it’s easier to eject that realism entirely, not realizing that those stories become quite more interesting when it actually has a role to play.
I find awesome your video cause it's part of why i never was able to like Frozen as much as i would have wanted. 🤣 The politics aspect of the movie take to much importance in it to be build so shacky and bad.
The Fire Nation from Avatar the Last Airbender also didn't seem to have very complex governmental structures. Their government just consisted of the Fire Lord and his immediate family making all the decisions. They didn't have a prime minister or a council, just one minister of war and a room full of generals advising the Fire Lord. And while Arendelle was just a small backwater kingdom of little significance, the Fire Nation was a military superpower that ruled virtually the entire world in the show. They had public schools, factories, cities and people numbering in the millions. Yet neither in the show or the comics, we never see the bureaucracy that's set up to run all of it.
I mean, maybe the Fire Nation is just an imperial-stratocracy like Rome? and I fee like the show's reason that don't see its government is because we don't really spend much time in the fire nation overall, I remember at least one episode where Aang was there disguised as a student, but its been a while so if I forgot about other episodes, there's my reason, and I have never seen the comics so I wouldn't know.
@@hafizihilmibinabdulhalim1004 No, the Fire Nation is really only similar to Japan in a geopolitical sense, being an island nation initiating a war of conquest; most of its actual cultural elements - their styles of dress, architecture, etc - draw from China, Thailand, Burma, etc. Hell, the show utilizes traditional Chinese characters as script. We did see Minister of War Qin, but to assume he's the *only* individual to hold such a position would be foolish (why else would Qin be titled so if he's the only one?) What little we know of the FN govt is that the Fire Lord functions as an autocrat with total control over the military, up to and including appointing commanders directly.
The issue is that would not have been necessary or relevant given the show is taking place during a war and the Fire Nation is economically and politically sound, thus it would make sense to see most of the government in the form of the Monarch and Military, but given we have seen Fire Nation Governors of the colonies such as the Brief City of New Ozai, it can be assumed that either the Fire Lord appointed ministers to occupy said regions in the name of the Fire Lord, and given the amount of intel being shared by the military and how organized it is, it is likely infered that there is more to the Fire Nation government, just it is either not relevant to the show or is more of a advisory role sending dispatches to either the Fire Lord or to their respective Governor. Which is much more believable and logical then what Arendelle shows with the movie focusing primarily on the issue of the government literally having ran away and a random prince taking over governance
Great video! Just a minor note at 4:57 you say Elsa zaps her sister's heart - it's actually the head at that point and later the heart when they're adults
8:30 To be fair, that's how royal succession worked back then, so that much at least makes sense, Elsa basically abdicated and passed the crown to the next in line, aka her sister
I like the way you went fair you went "dinner ple split into thirds spinning slowly and then the siren goes full of haywire zookinis and ghosts drawing inside of a lollipop type of cale queen gear"
Hear me out. So what if Aaron-dale is a province/lesser-kingdom that is actually part of the larger Corona kingdom/empire from Tangled; and the king and queen are relatives or close representatives of that royal lineage. We see Eugene and Rapunzel for a moment at Elsa’s coronation day, so they ARE in the same world/universe/time period. The Aaron-dale royal family is in charge of managing this little territory that is far removed (geographically speaking) from the heart of the Corona empire, but they are merely placeholders for the actual royalty in Corona (Rapunzel’s family). They obey Corona laws, all have Corona citizenship, and pay taxes/tribute to their motherland. And so when the figurehead of their government (aka the King) disappears, there would still be structured laws in place for the territory of Aaron-dale to continue to function. Corona might have sent an administrator or something to serve as their governing proxy until Elsa reached the appropriate age to oversee the kingdom herself. The people are old fashioned, and believe that royal blood is the most pure; and so they are anxious to once again have a queen/king on their throne. They worship and idolize the royal family to the point that they are willing to wait *years* (under the temporarily-appointed supervision from Corona) for the rightful heir to be crowned.
The issue with that is, historically that doesn't happen or at least would be much more nuanced. Take in point The German Empire , the Holy Roman Empire, or the Austro-Hungarian Empire all of them had a Emperor first amongst equals and all that, and within said empires there were other kings, petty kings, dukes, arch dukes and so on with their own land and estates. The problem in and of this situation is that none of the historical monarchs were figureheads or ceremonial or even would have been, as unlike say Britain setting up a puppet king somewhere across the world, a European Kingdom would have no issue controlling another European state and as such would not need a ceremonial king to impose legitimacy when they have military and economic power that is so nearby and if they did they wouldn't be so open about it instead favoring a friendly alliance rather than annexation, so what would be more likely is that Arendelle is either a vassal of Corona, is an equal kingdom who works in tandem with Corona, or is independent and in any of those situations, the Leader of Corona could not impose their own administration without Adredellenian authorization, so while it is possible they could have sent an envoy or administration to help said kingdom they wouldn't be in full control but would be similar to a minister or temporary regent assuming they were permitted. Which is why things like parliaments and a functioning bureaucracy are crucial to any Government and in which case assuming Arendelle was an equal kingdom inside a larger empire, could and likely would have a representative from parliament assigned as regent but that is assuming there is a parliament or legislative body that has approval of the aristocracy .
@@sirsteam6455 An uncontacted tribe has more institutions of state than fantasy kingdoms tend to have. That level of planning is beyond even their brightest genius's imagination.
First movie kind of works with a Disney "everyone is inherently good" populace; the kingdom will continue to function barring an exceptional crisis or external intervention. Which is indeed what happens. As for the end, having a queen that can control insane ice powers promises a lot for kingdom security and power. Second movie is low end Disney direct-to-video quality writing given a theatrical release; it seems to exist primarily to "fix" Elsa being more popular than Disney's originally preferred heroine Anna.
Never understood how Anna left a foreign prince to watch her kingdom that's way worse than falling in love with a dude you just met
I don't think it was even fridge logic for me to ask "what about the people who had been running the place since the parents died?"
Yes that's like a president just telling another president of another country to rule the country they just left. Like?? MAKE IT MAKE SENSE?
Neither princess was raised with proper royalty knowledge. Or raised much at all, really. I blame her dad and honestly, kinda? I blame the trolls. Papa troll's advice was literally "SUPRESS EVERYTHING!!!" and "LIE TO THE YOUNGER ONE" and TERRIFYING baby Elsa into thinking all her emotions would kill people with flames.
She was basically abandoned with little social interaction except for that short time when she was a kid so her brain didn't really develop properly. Cut her some slack
Maybe he's actually a distant relative. I mean, the British royal family was originally German.
To be honest, I think Elsa causing a snowstorm in the middle of summer actually solidified her rule. Anyone who would have been inclined to revolt, either to establish a Republic or to make himself King, would be utterly terrified into submission by Elsa’s powers.
Yeah, true. I mean someone could theoretically try to sneak up and kill her a la Hans, but the consequences of failure are particularly terrifying, and the likelihood of failure particularly high for anything but a very long game.
Who the Hell wants a Republic when the sovereign has ice ❄ powers to solve your economic problems and military issues?
She even has snow golems for manual labour.
I know it’s not “Disney”, but you’d still totally have the plotters who engineer a plan to assassinate her. Her powers don’t make her invincible and there would be people unafraid of them.
Honestly why were her parent not like "She has super powers? Cool, more proof of the divine right to rule of our bloodline!"
@@Derkosson I feel like even the peasants would be like that. Sure peasants revolted but usually against the lords. So in a land without Nobles to try and use it against you, super powers would be a really good plus for both the Royalty and the peasants. Strong King usually meant less war and more peace and prosperity.
I think the issue with this kingdom stems from the way Disney treats royalty in general. They are there it look pretty and be important, while forgetting that royals are meant to be leaders.
@@anjafrohlich1170 Double this.
Nailed it
It would make sense if they made constitutional monarchies, but from the way the films present it they seem to be absolute. All of this could be avoided if they simply mention a prime minister of sorts, even just once in a movie lol
Yeah but there are also other people, there were nobles and lords who owned land and were making decisions on a small scale. Kings and queens made important decisions (most of the time) but they weren't alone
@@realdragon they still had their demesne
How didn't anyone know about Elsa's powers sooner? I mean royal children are constantly looked after due to their importance as successors and children can't hide anything for more than 30 seconds. You can't tell me that none of the staff noticed or outright saw her using the abilities she was established to have been born with!
The incident involving Elsa accidently hitting Anna left A TON of evidence behind that SOMEONE had to clean up! On top of that, they made a point to reduce the staff! That means possible witnesses released into the populace!
Maybe they were paid to keep quiet
@@DragonGoddess18 or maybe they were kept quiet in other ways
@@071alecThey... gave them cookies?
@@koteghe7600 yzma original recipe
I feel like the staff knew, which is why the king wanted to reduce the number of people working there. The staff members probably kept it to themselves or it just became a nasty rumor/legend in the kingdom that couldn't possibly be true. Elsa left evidence, but her ice could eventually melt, and no one (as far as we know) has ever seen her do it besides her family as a child.
Also Anna would be a terrible ruler because she wasn’t trained to be a ruler as a kid. She would need like 7 more years to learn everything there is to do with being a queen.
why did you say that?
Some of history's rulers were the spares in their family until the current heir either died or abdicated the throne
All royal children are taught how to rule and what they need to know regardless of whether they're the crown heir or not, in case something wipes out the family but that one surviving monarch.
she would be taught math and history since she was child would know more then most elected US presidents.
Frozen
Like seriously if your monarchs both hide away in the castle for years how do you manage without them doing anything
Eh. I kinda see it as fairy tale logic.
Like… where did Rapunzel go to the bathroom all those years in the tower.
@@cartoonishidealism582 now that you've asked that question I am haunted by the lack of information
@@cartoonishidealism582 lower level next to the kitchen or through the window
@@071alec XD the window...! ohhhh the implications
@@njivwathomassilavwe2056 when the waterfall near the tower was there for aesthetic reasons n not an explanation for showers lol
The “potentially illiterate peasant husband” killed me 😭😭 because in hindsight its so true
Norway, protestant culture, he probably could read scripture.
@@johnnotrealname8168 bro was raised by rocks idkkkkk 😅😅 He could probably read whatever they were teaching him though.
@@goodbyetimetosay He gave some carrots to his reindeer. He met with people and read scripture.
@@johnnotrealname8168just because he met locals doesn’t mean he could read, scripture or anything else for that matter. Also the lack of explicit details on faith in the movie (by comparison to say hunchback of note dame) could mean anything happened in the history of that world. Hell, arandel could be a catholic country, or an orthodox one, or hell, some reformed pagan religion that doesn’t exist in our world (since the country itself doesn’t). Simply because the kingdom takes influence from Norway doesn’t make it a one to one comparison in any meaningful way.
As a ck3 player as long as he is heracuelean, beautiful, or genius its fine
Something I’d really like to know is, is Arendalle like a city-state kingdom? Because it seems like it’s just the castle, local town and (formerly) a bridge
Personally I wish it was a more expansive kingdom--mainly for aesthetics and culture, but it would also fall in line with Runeard's colonial motivations. And thinking back on it, I imagine Arendelle is basically a colonial kingdom (a "New Scandanavia"), since we have no idea where the kingdom people originated from and the Northuldra look more like Native Americans than the Sami people.
@@OpticalSorcerer before frozen 2, I would’ve just said Norway (Hans being from the southern Isles seems like it COULD be Denmark), but frozen 2 really messed things up. It’d be easier if Disney just stated that it was high fantasy (ie: different world, not earth). But I agree with u, would’ve liked more lore too
@@Eclipse-mf6hc I always considered it to be high fantasy, but they could've gone deeper with it rather than trying to stick to a specific time period and then trying to nail it to a group of cultures. The concept art for Frozen definitely would've worked better if they wanted it to feel like a real location in Northern Europe. The high-fantasy setting definitely could've explained stuff like Elsa's modern fashion. It reminds me of how I kinda pictured "The Little Mermaid" being a fantasy location inspired by Spain, given Ariel's red hair (which could be found anywhere, but I've heard that Spain is a country that's known for redheads), the Kingdom looks a bit like Cordoba, and production took inspiration from Mediterranean countries. Of course, the linguistics of the film contradict that entirely, but I digress...
I usually enjoy how video games do high fantasy, and hopefully Disney will take inspiration from them in the future.
@@OpticalSorcerer yeah, I think frozen’s almost definitely high fantasy, but it just feels hard to distance it from our world (for me at least) because it has a Norwegian aesthetic. The little mermaid is a whole other thing though; u get ppl saying it’s set in Denmark which it’s not (I’m Danish-Australian, the most Danish part of that movie was Eric’s name), I assumed it was set in the Mediterranean. I’d love to see movies from Disney that are just unabashedly high fantasy, Wish’s given me some hope in that area
@@Eclipse-mf6hc My issue is that high fantasy stories, while sometimes going for a modern aesthetic (similar to some Final Fantasy games, though others do low fantasy), are usually "generic European," so I'd enjoy seeing more high fantasy stories with a specific European influence. "Wish" is inspired by Spain, so it'll be interesting to see how it goes!
The main issue I have with the movie is when the villain was revealed. If his motive was to kill the queen, why did he not take the opportunity in the ice castle?
Because Hans wasn't originally meant to be a villain and they didn't rewrite anything before the "twist" reveal to hint at it
Because he wanted to be seen as reasoning with her. He wanted to bait her gradually into getting more and more dangerous. So that when he killed her, it would look like he had no choice and people would be on his side. No one had been hurt up untill that part. You can't just kill a queen cuz they have the possibility of being dangerous. Also you don't just kill a powerful witch if you want their magic broken, that's a sure way to curse a place. And we did find out only Elsa had the power to reel it in. He didn't know if killing her before she breaks the spell would make it worse. You'd be blamed.
Also Anna was still in play from his pov at that point in time.
He wanted to make it look like he was trying to help everyone, be a caring leader (hence why he was passing out blankets and aid, and also why he got the fires stoked up for Anna, just to pour water over them)
@@sian8322 Ok, that at least makes sense.
He did, you see him look up at the chandelier and move the crossbow up at it
She'd die, but it'd look like an accident where he was trying to stop a guard from shooting her.
Optics do matter in this situation
Hans was originally meant to be Anna love interest in the first draft of the first movie. Have you seen that villain Elsa video? In that video, villain Elsa talks about how Admiral Westergard cared for Anna. Hans full name in the movie is Prince Hans Westergard of the Southern Isles. Just the fact that the villain of the first movie is named after Hans Christian Anderson, the first part of the author name is weird enough.
Also something I never understood when they locked the castle because of Elsa’s power, why did they locked Anna in the castle too. She doesn’t have any powers so……why ?
Also are we not going to talk about Kristof’s literal KIDNAPPING ? Like, it’s not like he was alone, he was with a group of…huuuuh…..ice cutters ??(sorry I am not sure what those dude were doing….). So technically the trolls literally abducted him. And if it wasn’t the case why show him with a group of adults, why not just make him an abandoned kid, or better, not show him in the intro, that would have been better I think….
Taks a shot everytime the trolls do a moraly questionable thing
@@rockhistoria2537 bruh I would end up in an ethylic coma💀💀
@@rockhistoria2537 i mean makes sence. In scandinavic cultures any magical or non human creature are known to have non human morality. Different mythological creatures of the northern europe are literally known for stealing kids and leaving fake ones to the parents so
I am so anti troll that sometimes I wish they were in a different film entirely. They don't make SENSE. "Fixer Upper" is filler, not a reasonable song, and Grandpabbie gave Elsa a lifelong complex as a 6-year-old! HISHE's solution of making Elsa one of the X-Men made so much more sense 😁
They didnt really lock in Anna too. The books that were published did show that Anna ventured out to the city or rode her horse. Remember she had no issues riding her horse in the movie, so she has been outside and gotten lessons.
At the end of Frozen 2, Elsa and Anna became some sort of joint theo-monarchy, with Anna being Queen of Arendell and Elsa being some sort of Shaman Queen who lives between the arendellians and the tribespeople. I beleive they did this so that both Anna and Elsa can be rulers simaltaneously. But heres a better idea. They should have had an arrangement where Elsa is the Queen in winter and Anna is the Queen through summer when Elsa has to rest. This references the seasonal motif of the sisters, and the legend of Persephone and Desponia, two sisters who appear on earth one during summer and one during winter.
Way cooler idea than what Disney did
Yeah but since dumb toddlers will buy it anyway Disney isn't willing to do something like that which would actually be way more interesting
I think Arendelle is in Murmansk. as a puppet kingdom .LOL
Just have a Diarchy like Sparta.
But like Persephone and Desponia are almost certainly just the same person
I also noticed that in frozen 2 Arendelle looks totally different. I don’t know if it’s just me but it looks like it has like a whole different layout to the first Frozen movie 🫢
Maybe cs they became friends they changed arendelle with elsa ice powere
Well three years have passed since Frozen so alot of changes would happen
I mean in the first version we mostly just see it under a bunch of ice and snow. (And real-world-wise, I think they *really* managed to punch up their landscape game, what with their graphics and the seasonal variation thereof.)
@@lxssabratzI think Arendelle is in Murmansk. as a puppet kingdom .LOL
Yeah. In the first the castle was kind of a peninsula in the middle of a like/river with mountains more in the distance and mainly flat land/small rolling hills close by. Elsa and Anna have to travel a while before scaling the mountain range in "front" of the castle.
In the second it seems the castle is backed up to a massive Cliffside with the river in front and the magic lands directly north, I believe
Frozen is the typical example of a story that a first glance is good, but if you think about it for more than a second, is terrible. The more you think about it, the worst it gets. The kingdom is nonsensical and the same is true for the characters. I rather read a fanfic when Hans is the good guy cursed by the trolls (if a fan theory has more solid ground than the original story there is an abvious problem) and Elsa is the villain.
I could tell how bad the story was on first watching.
@@mupty Lots of people's first watchings were when they were kids, di you want a medal for being such an exquisite move judge?
the idea of hans being cursed by the trolls makes way more sense tbh as the twist villain seems to come out of nowhere as 2 secs before he was literally caring and worrying about anna, like people snap but not that quickly . what is this inconsistency with him ?! and elsa being a villain was intended in the original storyline with let it go being her villain song basically saying she couldn't careless about her kingdom or anything at all.
@@mupty very good animation and songs can distract for a while
@@Heejinbunny absolutely true
This is what I've always wondered as well. Who ruled between the time of their parents' death and Elsa's coronation?! WHO?
Nobody? Elsa? How did anything function?
Yeah I was thinking the same thing.
NO NO, HE’S GOT A POINT
Maybe the military did. Who knows, maybe they just assumed command during that time, yet this would also align with them not being able to officially crown a new king or queen.
Usually, kingdoms might have an board of governors to occupy the role of leaders until the next in succession can take the role of the reigning monarch.
Or at least that's what happened here in Brazil when Pedro I left, and Pedro II was too young to be emperor.
Yeah, I was wondering that myself. The two answers above me, the military and a board of governors, make sense. The problem is that as this video, and the whole plot of the first movie, prove, this kingdom appears to have no such policy put in place for someone like that to rule in the absence of a king/queen. If they did, Hans wouldn't be able to take charge the way he did.
I've always felt like the franchise needed an honorable uncle that served as regent until Elsa came of age and would temporarily serve when both had to leave again in Frozen 2. Then always step down due to his honorable nature.
That would keep the continuity of leadership while also adding another family memeber to develop future stories with.
I need this fanfic right now.
I think Frozen II had the whole colonial plot as a response to criticism in the first movie. There’s a page about it in “Know Your Meme”. A bunch of (largely American) internet users thought the Sami were dark skinned/“ethnic” because they’re considered “native” to Scandinavia. They hated Kristoff being blonde. Even though the Sami are European ethnic group and look Northern European. That’s why the “Sami” inspired tribe in the sequel look more like Pocahontas than Anna/Elsa. Trust me. I’ve met some Sami and they’re Nordic looking AF.
yeah sami actually remind me of finnish and estonian people somewhat
@@slvaltva1392they are basically cousins of Finns, so yeah
It's hilarious how these woke idiots think that native automatically means non white.
Like there are no white natives of Northern climates because all "natives" by their definition have to be melanated.
@@slvaltva1392 They both come from the broad Finno-Uralic ethnolinguistic group so it makes sense
I also don't think there was any allusion to Kristof, specifically, being Sami, either! All we knew is Kristoff being an Ice chopping apprentice. (I do have a couple of Finnish friends who are Sami or at least partially, and there is a look, but if I am correctly informed (and I do NOT claim expertise AT ALL) there is a tribal admission process, and my friend was did not feel qualified to join in. (As for looks I believe Americans would call her dirty blonde. And I am stopping right now because I am well aware I am ABSOLUTELY NOT qualified to comment on any more of this!!)
I also thought this the first time I watched this movie. Even like...who is making the meals? Who is dressing the royal family (Anna was *not* getting into that coronation day dress by herself)? Who, precisely, is telling the guards to open the gates as Elsa sings? Who has been ruling the kingdom until Elsa came of age? It's silly but it makes you think😂
They did say they cut down the staff so there be less people in the castle apart from Elsa Parents and her sister
When a monarch isn't of age a regency council is called and a regent is the one who rules until the actual ruler is able to rule
Yet Hans was placed in charge of Arendelle when Anna went off to look for Elsa.
@@elpsykoongro5379so where was that regent?
@@shadow-faye good question
I am still suprised the people cheered when Hans was punched.
As far as the people know he protected them agaist the cold and protected the kingdom.
Exactly! He's the one doing all the work, providing for the working class while all the rich nobles are warmand cozy in their castles with all those fireplaces. They didn't know Hans was going to kill Anna. No one could've inferred that from one sentence from Anna. Even if he tried to kill Elsa (he could claim he thought it was they only way to stop her given the severe circumstances, and the people were terrified at Elsa's ice powers), they would not have that bad of an impression of him.
Wouldn't attacking or arresting a foreign emissary, much less royalty, be seen as extremely offensive from a diplomatic aspect? Even though it's clear that they've committed crimes, but communications in the 1800s weren't as good compared to now. The Southern Isles and Weselton could've downplayed the severity or deny and accuse Arendelle of slander. Oh, and they and other nations would've been affected by the snowstorm too, and who knows how much they lost in lives and trade...
Elsa, it's not good to make so many enemies so early in your reign. Added with the fact that you've just resumed communications with foreign countries whose diplomats were witness to your little ice show... Sure, you've got ice powers, but what is ice compared to treaties and declarations governments sign, empty ports and shops, coffers and stores running dry, and a crowd of angry peasants at your door?
@@crystall2398 I mean what the fuck are you going to do if they do that? Elsa can create life in her snow and as we see at the end of the movie can create a localized snow to keep them going even in warm weather. These snowmen who cannot easily be taken down and even if you chop off bits they can just reform. And she can make as many as she wants. Cool you have 10,000 men, she flash freezes them into a lovely ice sculpture garden outside of her castle. No one is picking a fight with the snow queen who on an accident flash froze her own kingdom and put it into a several day long blizzard. Why would they want that focused on them?
@@TheLastSane1Even so, they would not be friendly, and it would be the word of a shut-in sorceress and her potentially undead sister, versus the word of more reputable nobles like Wesselton and Hans (who were sent to the coronation despite not being THE top dogs in their kingdoms).
@@jonquilgemstone The troubling thing there is, its their princesses word vs some foreign leadership that may have some hostile intentions.
@@TheLastSane1 As soon as Elsa's powers were exposed, you can bet there were sentiments that she caused the storm her parents died in. "Their princesses" have been too detached and mysterious to have kept the level of trust and loyalty shown in the movies. The subjects are just kind of a big, adoring hivemind instead of acting like people.
They could even believe Elsa was a changeling: an impostor. There's no way those years of isolation didn't give rise to suspicion even before the coronation.
The kingdom could have, and would logocally have been, a source of drama for a couple of movies instead of solely focusing on the sisters' psychological issues. It's just poor writing to have them all be completely, enthusiastically, undyingly loyal to the sisters and not having even a small "Hans" faction (or even a Wesselton faction, since his home kingdom seems to be a well-established trade ally).
I feel as if you'd like Elena of Alvador- a lot of it is about politics and how a princess has to manage a kingdom (queendom?), plus there's a council, and she actually has to learn how to deal with other kingdoms, on top of dealing with family issues (and her cousin, who is in the city council, also worked for the big bad before the start of the series).
I feel like avalor has the most established kingdom out of any disney kingdom, since the whole series is about elena learning to deal with politics before she becomes queen.
That’s true, she has the council, which helped her make decisions until she became queen, family problems and problems in the city as they have to adapt, and then as you said there is the cousin, who schemed with the villain who pulled the majority of the strings, and eventually he was found out.
That show taught me so much about politics in a way a kid can understand
ngl, yeah, I couldnt see the whole thing but I did watch it a bit as a kid and I can say, YES most definitely
Funny how frozen seems way more serious than Elena of Avalor, but still manages to be silly-er because of how inconsistent frozen is
My personal theory is that Hans is the real hero of the story. Elsa and Anna are clearly both terrible monarchs. So when one runs away and the other chases after her (alone, no less), it's Hans who steps up and takes care of the kingdoms citizens in their hour of need. Later, when he realises Elsa is responsible for the curse, he's the one with the courage to make the tough decision and remove her as a clear and present threat to the kingdom. The worst thing he does is betray Anna's trust but honestly - the girl has already proven to be completely naive and incompetent as a ruler. So letting her die, as cruel as it was, is still the best move for the sake of the kingdom.
In short, Hans got done dirty.
Thats an interesting way to say it, because whenever I hear people call Hans ''bad'' it can be flipped easily as ''reason'' or ''ambition'', Hans was said to be finding his own place and when shown he IS a good leader by looking out for the people, why should HE be the villain? I am just saying, they could just make a villain in the second movie being foreshadowed in the first
In other words from a power dynamics point of view, what Prince Hans did to seize the city-state/kingdom of Arendelle from realistically politically incompetent rulers is regrettable but necessary, it’s very Machiavellian and I don’t mean it in a malicious way it’s more of a description only
And realistically hans wouldnt have killed Anna as he needs Anna to gain control over the kingdom, if I was hans I'd marry anna gain power banish Elsa's for almost killing everyone and make sure the kingdom of Arendelle has an actual government
You are definitely one of those people who would have gleefully joined hitler aren't you?
it makes even more sense than the Gaston did nothing wrong meme, and even that makes points as well.
Personally I do wish Arendelle got better worldbuilding, though since most of Frozen and Frozen 2 take place outside of it, I guess it's not meant to be deeply fleshed out.
It's pretty much confirmed that the Frozen I was clearly a one-off deal but it's success forced a franchise. So it makes sense that the worldbuilding is all over the place.
@@alexisschiffer4830 Hopefully Frozen 3 works on that.
@@OpticalSorcererNo it won't. It was garbage since day 1
You don't have to completely flesh it out for it not to be trash.
I love what you said about magical powers being normal/logical in the context of the story.
I hate it when you point out weird things or things that are just flat out plotholes, just for some jerk to come in and say something like 'you expect logic in a story with magic and wizards?'.
YES. Of course I do.
Just because a work of fiction uses fictional elements in its story doesn't mean internal consistency can go out the window-- established powers and magic can have logical repercussions, and magic space wizards doesn't mean that plotholes and logical inconsistencies can be ignored.
A lack of realism does not excuse the lack of logic.
I can take something being completely unrealistic and fictional, that's the whole point of FICITON.
I can't take a lack of logic though, unrealistic and fictional things can (and usually do) make sense as long as they remain logical
I love to listen and think about worldviews of various people. The way I judge them all is based on internal consistency and how well they align with facts I'm aware off.
If we take the facts we can know about this world and apply a bit of wiggle room as people prioritize the reliability of sources differently, then we can end up with various world views that are true in a sense that they are internally consistent and they have a plausible alignment with the known facts.
When we take a fictional world then the known facts of that universe change. But in most cases the story is built in a way that it still follows logic and human nature. So the existance of magic just changes stuff like how the world came to be and how natural science works. Plots, politics, people needing a place for sleep and people needing a place to grow crops and all those things still apply because they are a consequence of logic and human nature.
dude, its a kids' movie
@@allenvel >muffled screaming
@@allenvel So you're fine with low quality stories for kids movies?
As a Norwegian i can a agree on that. In real life Arendal is in south Norway. The real place of the kingdom. So yes the kingdom does exist. Sadly what happened in Frozen 2 happen in real life. The Sami people(the indigenous people of Scandinavia) was forced from many of their territories. And Hans kingdom is Danmark if you didn't know.
I see…
Aren’t the Sami’s “Indigenous” status more political than actual nativeness? Aren’t Norwegians/Swedes also “native” to Scandinavia? They’re not “native” to Nigeria, India or Japan.
@@orrorsaness5942 The Sami were more prominently featured because the first Frozen faced online backlash for not being "diverse" enough. There's an entry on "Know Your Meme". Kristoff (who is Sami) being blonde made some people mad. Despite being a European ethnic group many (American) internet users acted like the Sami are dark skinned/"ethnic". But they're European people and look European like any other Scandinavian. 1840s Scandinavia did not look like 2st century New York City.
@@alexisschiffer4830No, Norwegian are native to the Southern part of Norway. The capital of both Norway and Sweden is in the south while north you go, it's only forest and disconnect from the rest of the country. Sami people are basically cousins of the Finnish and Estonia people (Uralic people family). Sami people in Norway live in the northern part of Norway along the border of Finland. Norwegian, Danish, and Sweden are a descendent of Vikings (Scandinavian people family). Vikings homeland is in the southern part of Scandinavia, they never went up north where the weather get much more cold and extreme. The northern part has always been Finnish, Sami and Lappland people homeland. Research said that it was not until 18th century that Scandinavian (Norway and Sweden) people, the Native of Southern Scandinavia region begin to colonized the Northern part and and in the 19th century began the forced assimilation of the Sami and Lappland people to the rest of the Scandinavian as part of the Scandinavization policy by the Norwegian and Swedish authorities.
Frozen 2 is actually a copy-paste of Norway history. The difference between the movie and the actual history is no reconciliation with the Sami people history. A hydroelectric power station was built on the Altaelva River in Norway from 1979 to 1981, and the controversial Virdnejavr Dam flooded a Sami village and forest in Northern Norway, disrupting traditional hunting and herding. In fact, in 1609, King Christian IV, the King of both Denmark and Norway wrote that he believed the Sami people were adept at magic, (so they were dangerous) and no mercy should be granted in cases involving Sami sorcery. Nordic missionaries confiscated or destroyed Sami shamanism religious items and sites and built churches to supplant Sami shamanism.
And then they just let Elsa leave to become some earthbound ruler.
Why can't Anna become the queen instead of Elsa since she's has problem with her ice powers for years after she accidentally attacked Anna with her powers and no one trains her of how to control them. I know Elsa is the oldest sibling so she's takes the throne but considering she was locked up for years and no one help during her childhood. Also one thing az well is that tried the parents look like the good guys when they locked up Elsa in her room without anyone to help of how to control them.
how to teach a bird to fly
u don't, u don't know either
Agnarr gave Elsa advice based on his life as a royal: don't let anyone see who you are, project an image of who you want them to see and who they want you to be. As such, he probably thought Elsa becoming queen meant that she'd learn to be more controlled, especially since she seemed more logical and less emotional than Anna.
@@OpticalSorcerer
Thats kinda unwinded by the fact that the reason Anna is so illogical and all over the place is because she’s forced into isolation and her energy is pent-up. If they just manage her properly, she could learn to be a better ruler as she doesnt have the threat of ice powers to get in the way. She’s known to be smart, negotiable, curious, understanding, and kind. She would be a wonderful ruler but thats stunted because their parents seem to only focus time and energy into controlling Elsa and not on raising both to be normal adults
@@seraphywang4638Considering Elsa is their first child and she has a VERY unique situation, I don't fault their parenting skills too much--also taking into account that many medieval royals spend more time being raised by the staff, and Anna and Elsa still seem to be close with their parents, so they tried, at least.
I feel like realistically the royals probably would've just kept pumping out kids and praying that one of them doesn't have ice powers. No, they just left the future monarch to rot and expected all to go perfectly fine
i always though elsa was just let back to be queen because of fear, i mean if she gets angry who can stop her, also kristoff not just doesnt have chemistry with Anna by the little we know about him he would hate to be royalty and knows nothing of diplomacy, i would had like if they didnt made hans a villain at least he seemed as kind of a competent ruler
I hate them as a pairing, no chemistry, no purpose... Kristof has no purpose as a character other then being romantic interest and he fails horribly at that 😂
I mean he could bring the view of the smallfolk, the people who live day by day outside that the royals would not have personal experience with. Its helpful.
@@Pirates.27 He's there purely to denounce love at first sight, which is kind of dumb bc you would think arranging a marriage would be ideal for securing the royal line of succession...and if a foreign prince and the younger princess are willing, then it's just an added bonus, and they could get to know each other and adjust their relationship after marriage.
But of course "denouncing tropes is quirky, and medieval royalty follows the marriage philosophies of modern commoners"
As someone who loves learning about history and politics, it always saddens me when fairytale like movies have kingdoms that don’t make sense. Like it doesn’t have to be Uber-realistic or highly focused on, just make it make sense at a glance to people who know their stuff.
I think the most unrealistic part is how they cheered at Hans getting punched, and how he was seemingly punished. Like, from their perspective he seemed to be a hero and their first taste of a leader who actually cares about them. It was easily his word against Anna's regarding their conversation, as he could have "mistakenly thought she died" and she could have "had a delirious dream influenced by her witch sister's spells". Heck, they could have thought Elsa was a necromancer on top of being an ice witch.
But no, they just see the dead princess and the sorceress depose the guy who had saved most of their lives by letting them into the castle to warm up, and they assume those two were the good guys and not just out to regain permanent power after goodhearted Anna was taken out of the way and resurrected as the witch's thrall.
You have a lot of great point. Who was the regent while Elsa was growing up??
There is a regent in the What if novel
Elsa was about 18 when her parents died. Not sure if that’s old enough to rule.
@2l84me8 Jesus Christ, if you are not at least nominally ruling someone is scheming.
Oh, yes. The worldbuilding in this movie was bonkers. The attempt to hide Elsa’s powers makes good political sense, as it’s putting it very mildly to say that she’s a walking reusable suitcase nuke without the disadvantages of nuclear fallout. I mean, she has the ability to submerge the world into magical winter and conjure up armies of snow-golems. Practically speaking, every other prince in the world would have a motive to either kill her or kidnap and brainwash her. And killing would be safer. But her parents would probably also kind of want to develop the powers for themselves, secretly. If it weren’t for the fact that, as someone else observed, being actually able to keep the secret is basically out of the question. Unless they twigged to it when she was an infant, killed any witnesses, and moved her out to the back of beyond with a staff of one or two.
And why is there no aristocracy? Or rather, they’re there, seemingly, since someone showed up to the ball. But why do they have no opinions? Aristocrats are… not known for their diffidence. And that why-would-Hans-think-he-could-have a-claime-on-the-throne thing is bothersome. By all rights he would have to stick around long enough not only to marry Anna but possibly also have children with her for that to stick.
One needn’t assume she would be overthrown by democratic ideas. That’s a fairly recent development that people would do that. Though their clothing is 1800s, so maybe. But certainly being overthrown in favor of another king would be a concern. Handwave, handwave, handwave, we have catchy songs.
Royals could keep their sexual lives private so this is possible, plus it could be made into an old wive's tale. 18th Century, they had little influence in most places. There was a bureaucracy of lower class people to govern things. I find it difficult to believe he could do it so quickly, and in a European country in the 19th Century but it is possible to usurp the Throne.
There’s also just the potential of constitutional monarchy, which both Denmark and Norway still are. But yeah, everything else is right
Tbf their mom and dad are complete morons who completely misinterpreted the trolls cryptic but still easily understandable message and both set up to sea to die horribly
All of issues with Arendelle are gone now. Elsa's powers are busted. Lets ignore all of the "Ice can do anything abilities" and she could do stuff as easy as just give her kingdom spring all year round with the perfect climate. If by some miracle the perfect spring is just too hot for you you're good. How cold do you want it.
Their economy gets a bump. They get to grow all year round, fish all year round etc. etc. Then once you get on the ice can do anything side of things she can just create an entire workforce of ice golems. No one ever has to look like a bum. Everyone will be on fleek. She can uno reverse card any nation. Want to go to war with Arendelle she can make an ice clone, imbue it with enough of her power and intelligence to just walk into any kingdom and give it eternal winter.
Infact she manipulates heat not cold which is how she takes away the winter from Arendelle in the first place. Realistically if you are an ice kingdom she could just absorb all of the cold air and make it a desert wasteland and leave. And you'd be f'd
Ah better not f*uck up the ecosystem by giving forever yield tho 😂
Or: Else becoming the goddamn Night Queen arc
I still want the Tarzan is their brother theory to be true lol
This is honestly the thing I think most about when it comes to Frozen. Wouldn't there be like a cousin or some kind of noble person who had a claim to the throne?? Also, during the climax of the movie, several foreign delegates form around Hans to take control of Arendelle, as if any of them had any say over the people of the kingdom. It is really weird.
My guess is that any relatives of Anna and Elsa are so distant that they’re considered part of foreign royal families, and thus do not live in Arendelle. Hell, it’s possible that Hans is actually a distant cousin of Anna’s, explaining why people don’t freak out over him being regent but also why Anna has no clue who he is.
Maybe you shouldn't be watching little girl movies if you want a realistic political drama...
Who tf ruled the kingdom after their parents died and the princesses were still locked? Who ruled for 3 years after their death? Since she just got crowned 3 years later.
It was possible to extend the regency (As Chief Minister.), Louis XIV did it, but the coronation being so late seems odd then.
Perhaps the Kingdom's military forces held way more power than what was presented. They would have the ability to keep everyone in line, and with no one monitoring them for so long it seems they had to have some level of autonomy. Yet at the same time, they can't exactly just usurp the throne, officially make decisions of governance, or take up political positions. In Frozen 2, the Arendelle guard was hesitant to help Anna destroy the dam, despite them directly being under her control. Sure, it had been a long time, but they should still know who had the final say imminently. Perhaps this suggests they did indeed have some level of autonomy. I personally think it would be kind of interesting if Arendelle was essentially a stratocracy for a decade.
This also explains why the military of Arendelle was fully willing to kill their own queen, and in Frozen 2 why they were going to immediately attack a group of people clearly not from the woods everyone was trapped in, not once considering the group might be sent by royalty because the army does not care if said person who seemed threatening was clearly not from their ranks. Anna and Hans also hid from the guards for some reason, which doesn't make much sense with her being the princess, unless they held significant authority. Runeard must have been some sort of military commander who proclaimed himself King, and thus held legitimate power. He even dressed in military attire unlike everyone else. In fact, nothing in either movie suggests that after Runeard the role of King or Queen was nothing but ceremonial. Runeard being as militaristic as he was portrayed might have simply ruled using the military. Foreign powers could have been unaware of this since Arendelle is rather insignificant, and maybe the guard saw the opportunity to use Hans as an excuse to kill a powerful rival, being the ice queen. Maybe Arendelle is like North Korea, anyone who is caught acting unsatisfied with the rulers is dealt with, which explains why everyone seems so happy.
Also given how servants tend to be involved a lot in the lives of royalty, it would be impossible for a few of them not to know about ice powers. The educators would’ve spent a lot of time 1 on 1 with Elsa and would clearly notice something up. Given how little the leave the castle they would’ve been reduced to figureheads has whoever is in charge of the kingdom when the dad dies would’ve already built immense power around themself.
Something else that looks weird in the first movie is that Elsa becomes Queen regnant at 18 since she was crowned 3 years later at the age of 21 but they made it look like she became Queen once she got crowned and coronations practically take place 1 year after you take the throne,so why 3 years?but I loved the movie anyway but there were so many holes that were not explained
In middle ages you can take the throne at 16
maybe age of maturity is 21 in their culture
Coronations are tricky, most coronations were unnecessary, to get technical they were meant to confer legitimacy (Practically speaking.) which was important during crises like the Hundred Years' War but by the 19th Century no-one was really going to challenge a European King's throne (I mean look at all the Germans running around.) so it was more ethereal and spiritual. Thus it confers the graces requisite for the carrying out of the Royal Office. I suspect Disney does not get any of this (For example the most important part of a Coronation is not putting Crowns on heads or baubles but the anointing which harkened back to King David.) or it could be like the Iberian Monarchies which do not Coronate their Monarchs (The Crown did not want it to seem like the Church conferred power and in Portugal King João, o Restaurador Crowned Mary Queen of Portugal and it was thought Blasphemous to be Crowned King.). In the 19th Century new Monarchies simply had an inauguration with the Constitution of the country. Edit: Gorblimey I forgot Hungary. In some countries like Hungary, Coronations were essential to the legitimacy of the King which is why IV. Károly, Apostoli Magyar Király was Coronated in Hungary but did not need to in Austria. If you want to read into that I recommend this paper: "THE LAST CORONATION: MYSTERY AND STRENGTH" (2017) By David A.J. Reynolds: ( hungarianreview.com/article/20170317_the_last_coronation_mystery_and_strength ). Edit2: They were also variable, they could be extremely simple especially with a King who could not care less about the ceremony like William IV.
@elpsykoongro5379 In Brazil they had the Emperor be declared Edit: "of" age at *14!*
Norway rules you cant take over before you are 21
It annoys me that the central motivation of the villain (that the spouse of an uncrowned monarch could inherit the kingdom) is incorrect. The spouse of a monarch does NOT become next in line if the monarch dies. That goes to the next oldest in the bloodline (since their system isn't based on sex). Probably a distant cousin.
TL;DR: In an absolute monarchy, some rando can't legally take power by marrying and murdering the queen.
Even if Hans succeeded in having Elsa murdered, the throne would pass onto Anna, and after her whatever children she may have would be positioned as the heir apparent, not him. And even then it's not like he's a native nobleman descended from some displaced royal wayback, say Anna's second great-granduncle, he's still a foreign royal.
Or maybe it's a James VI of Scotland scenario, where all known royal claimants in Arendelle part of This Particular House are dead, so can you loan us your king/prince real quick?! 🤣
And here's further evidence to show that Frozen is more of a mess the more you look and think about it
I mean..it's supposed to be a self-indulgent white girl fantasy. An all-powerful victim running away from her responsibilities, prancing around in her castle with her like totally cute dress she made, and snapping her magic fingers at the end to solve the problem with zero accountability. Practicality and logic weren't even a blip in these people's minds 💀
This is the way Doug Walker and Cinema Sins think...
The kingdom regulary working is the true magic before even elsa's powers
What I never understood is that Elsa and Anna's parents died when they were kids and the castle's doors never opened until they were both adults.
How has the entire kingdom not fallen apart in that time?
HISHE called out their crappy parenting too
I mean Elsa was 18 when they died so the king and queen were probably raising her to rule but also kept feeding into the fear. So else knows how to rule but not the social side of it but looking at the first movie she clearly knew how to do all the proper behavior but her social anxiety got the better of her. For being 21 and not really had socialization she did fairly well
Part of the reason why Arendelle feels so simple in execution is primarily due to the Frozen stories simplified its writing during production. This is why we don't get worldbuilding elements that's not important to the plot.
Back in the 2010 decade, the Frozen and Disney theorists had a lot of fun speculating these missing worldbuilding elements, and the vagueness of the Frozen world was really part of the fun.
For example, I refuse to believe the moment Elsa was crowned as queen was when she was without governing experience. The film never states it, but by the way she conducts herself, it seems she knows some basic protocol.
The missing parliament is most likely due to the simplication of the storyline of Frozen too. It may be important to worldbuilding elements, but the involvement of the parliament wasn't decided by the story team to be needed in the story to move its plot forward. Instead, we got the simple plot development of Anna suddenly assigning Hans to take charge of Arendelle during her abscense in the 1st Frozen.
it is possible that Arendalle is an absolute monarchy also
@@paintingdreams290 Then who was running the kingdom when Elsa and Anna are small children and their parents are both dead? It makes more sense that there was a regent character that controlled the state while the girls were growing up. But to streamline the story down to just its needed bits they removed them.
@@TheLastSane1I would say a council or regent is a very much needed bit, as it affects the plot regarding Hans and his role.
@@paintingdreams290 its not just possible, its pretty much clear that it is.
After all it seems like the monarchs power is not limited or reduced by any means, be it other governing bodies (like a parliament), or even other nobility.
Hans, as regent, seems to be able to just command people around without anyone (except the duke of weaselton, a foreign monarch) questioning or opposing or having to approve his decisions.
And its not even just small decisions too. Pretty sure sending a search party to get the queen back is a huge deal.
Anna appointing a random dude as regent also shows its 100% an absolute monarchy, if there were other governing bodies in the mix, they'd need to decide whether or not they accept the guy as the regent.
Instead, everyone goes along with whatever the queens sister said.
Is almost as if it was never a focus of the movie...
1:52 I don't think this is true. When they were kids I think it was implied that adults who were advisors to the king and queen ran the kingdom until they were ready. They didn't show that stuff because they thought it would be boring.
Okay this is actually something I had talked about on another video. Two things specifically, so the whole reagant thing where they had someone in charge of the kingdom until their father was old enough to be crowned would of course imply that they do have someone else managing the kingdom. The importance of this is that there is a good chance that someone had filled the role inbetween the time of the parents deaths and the time of Elsa's coronation. Of course we could only speculate because it is never once brought up about who was managing the kingdom between that time like the video suggests. This would have to be the case, otherwise the kingdom somehow was maintained despite there being no head of government.
Secondly, the whole Weselton and Hans trying to assert control to take the throne is just really stupid. If we take it from a historical route, well the monarchies within that area of whatever place Arendale is based off of did have a system of succession revolving around some form of eldest child to throne as well as a counsel to assess any other candidates for the throne. So assuming Elsa and Anna are both dead and the endless winter is still going on, then there is literally no chance that either Weselton nor Hans gets the throne. The problem is that the overall issue of the endless winter will literally starve out the kingdom meaning they need resources or a way to leave to a place that has more resources. Hans' own family has a better claim to being the next ruler of Arendale.
So firstly Hans is a prince which means his parents if they are alive are the reigning monarch and since Hans is like the 13th line to the throne, he therefore has 12 siblings that have more a claim to the throne. Any one of the 12 siblings more likely have more experience managing a kingdom, are more aware of relations with other kingdoms, and are more likely to actually know the laws. So even if Hans does technically fill the role as a monarch for Arendale, the endless winter will literally starve the place out. The most logical connection would be either Hans or the people force him to ask for assistance from his family. As soon as his family finds out, they will probably kick him off the throne and put one of his elder siblings in the role of Aredale's monarch. If they do not kick him off, then they will probably make a deal with him that his family is willing to give the kingdom of Arendale the aid they need in echange for Hans to hand over the monarchy to one of his siblings. A deal is the more likely choice because it actually puts pressure on Hans from the citizen of Arendale to actually do something. Now the other reason that the people would more than likely accept one of Hans' siblings is that in times of need people will accept what they can, but if they are able to get someone more qualified then they are almost always going to take the more experienced person.
A similar thing with Weselton, whoever is higher ranking from where he is from will probably swoop in to take the kingdom. Also the only reason for the people above Weselton and Hans to grab the kingdom is purely out of just having more citizens, more resources, and better opportunities of trade locations. Also that due to what may be considered "unfortunate" circumstances they rushed in to "save" the kingdom which could justify their overtaking of Arendale by a different kingdom. This entire set of the monarchy dying out with the citizens hungry is a perfect situation for just about anyone with enough power and resources to take advatage of the situation without being questioned about it at all.
Frozen
If Hans did take over the King would probably let him be. A son on a throne? @~?£ it why not? There would need be no deal. Norway was itself eventually given over to a Danish Prince (With a vote.).
Steve t
Yeah, who the heck ran the kingdom up until Elsa became queen, and more importantly...WHERE WERE THEY DURING THE FIRST FILM?!?!?
Most likely the church. We see the archbishop during the coronation, so we learn there is some kind of clergy
They have to go on a month-long spiritual retreat at the time of the monarch’s coronation. It’s the law. Probably.
After watching the first film with my Grandkids, my first though was that Arendelle is set now. They have a large port, what looks like a fishing fleet- and a Queen who can create ice and freeze fish at will.They can ship frozen fish anywhere- at a good profit. Not to mention year around sales of ice blocks for cooling. Aredelle as the premier Summer vacation spot too? Ice skating and skiing in July.......
It just occurred to me that when Elsa left and Anna ran after her and Hans was left that if he really were a good villain he would have taken over the kingdom at THAT time. It would have been good to reveal his villainy at that time🤯🤔
I like to think she's beloved because the kingdom is scared of her powers .
The thing is Hans wasn't in charge. He was more a community manager. He was the guy on the ground sure but there were still other people running the rest of the city-state affairs. Hans was just shown due to his being out there in the public and also nearest to Anna who was the main character.
Anna also sorta declared him to be in charge before she left xD
i totally agree! yeah, it's a kid's movie, it's fantasy, yada yada. but there are still things you have to question. because there have been other kid's movies and shows that have addressed real-life issues with all its seriousness. frozen isn't a bad movie, but it has a lot of obvious flaws that _really_ stand out.
another thing that really pisses me off about this franchise is how anna is supposed to be one of the main characters, yet never gets a proper resolution to her arc. i mean, the movie addresses elsa's trauma (although somewhat sloppily) but anna went through some serious shit too. she almost died when she was a child, had her memory wiped, grew up in complete isolation to the point where she fully trusts the first person she came into contact with, gets hurt by her sister's powers AGAIN, gets betrayed by her partner and left to die, and freezes while trying to save her sister. girl went through so much, yet it's hardly addressed.
her relationship with elsa is also incredibly codependent because she seems to have abandonment issues, and this is not healthy. i was hoping for frozen 2 to revolve around anna and how she copes with all of these but no, she's again pushed to the side and only serves as an emotional support for elsa. she just fusses over elsa for the entirety of the movie, then in the end, elsa abandons her again and anna, who never dealt with her abandonment issues and trauma, just has to move on and rule a kingdom (something she's clearly not equipped to do).
I'm glad someone brought it up! 😂 I'd made myself assume the Elsa was ruling a little somehow, before the coronation so she'd have Some experience with everything..
Wow, I never thought of any of this before, or at least, not NEARLY this in depth 😆 I loved listening to it! It’s nice to take a deep dive into a story and really get a feel for the reality of existence there. Thanks a lot for the video! It was the perfect type of random 😄
I think it makes a lot more sense if the royal family is just a figurehead, and someone else is doing all the work. Like the only thing they really did was throw a party and meet foreigner ambassadors and stuff, which is exactly what a figurehead would do. People might just be pretending they are in charge for ceremony. In which case, having a magic ice witch as your figurehead likely has benefits for tourism and stuff.
More so military, especially if she gets powerful, enough to change the weather throughout a nation, if the neighbouring country suddenly has forever winter it will think twice about invading, theirs also large bodies of water like the water around copenhagen and english channel that suddenly can become an ice land bridge for easy troop movement. Freezing knights and the sort also be pretty advantegeous.
This was secretly a mega dark movie where the hero gets dragged away in chains at the end and you know that the entire kingdom is doomed. Mad respect for Disney for breaking from the happy ending thing.
The lack of other noble families is just a world-building issue.
Not really, if it is based on 1800's Norway
Bud issie full of squid your bid and flying trapezes😊
Anna has matured a lot since the first movie. Her actions in the second movie show that she's worthy of becoming a queen.
Plus Anna was only 18 in the first movie so it makes sense to why she was a bit naive
Maturity doesn't mean you can rule a country effectively. You need more than just that alone.
@@jadecoolness101 We'll see in Frozen 3 how she handles that role. I know princes and princesses are trained to be kings/queens in case the destined rulers abandon the throne (death or leaving).
True but she still doesn't have the skills. Elsa didn't even have the skills to be a queen because she basically just ran away from her own kingdom and somehow caused a whole blizzard in the middle of summer
@@tasmeenbaker9912 That's partly why Anna is so fitting of being a queen. She's more social and friendly than Elsa. She won't make an escape to some mountain.
I'm sure Arendelle is an example of world building by committee.
Oh it so is. They've literally admitted it in behind-the-scenes documentaries. The story was A WRECK. It's actually kind of sweet. (And literally amazing that it got as big as it did which I attribute ENTIRELY to the star power.)
After mentioning how small the Kingdom was, I decided to look up out of curiosity what was the smallest kingdom ever. As far as population and land mass.
The smallest one in history was the Kingdom of Tavolara on an island of the same name West from Italy. It has the number for the population but I don't know if this is the modern-day population number or the population number for when it was first created or in the middle of his life span or what not. I just don't know when it had this population. The Wikipedia doesn't say.
But for the population listed for this kingdom is 50 people. Total. And this is a real-life Kingdom. So it's possible for arrendale to have a very very small Kingdom with a small population. They probably have a bigger one than the real life when I just mentioned. Probably has a little bit more land too in farmland. Especially if they have another village or 2 they rule over.
Given how the kingdom only really survives by being utterly ignored by the Italian government (and legally existing on Italian territory), it can't really apply to Arrendale since they seem to be a reasonably sized, completely independent kingdom without an external power ruling/exercising suzerainity over them
@@johnroach9026 Look up the "Esperanta Respubliko de la Insulo de la Rozoj".
You're right, it doesn't make much sense for this kingdom to be stable if with the Queen and Princess absent, a foreighn prince can be chosen to take over, this means Arendelle lacks a Govorner, Mayor, Ministers, hell even likeley a General for the military, Seriously even a General would be a better option of giving power to for the time, at least they would be a local. This likely means Arendelle doesn't have much of a military aside from the Guards.
Very good points, which I myself found a real failing aspects of the story. I mean honestly, how hard would it have been, to have Hans and Weaselton each have their own stooge in the Arendelle government, a regent trying to maintain power maybe looking for a military backup from a neighboring kingdom, a young ambitious lord who is friends with Hans, and is hoping to get close to the royal family, by Hans romancing one of the sisters. Why would they lock up the castle, and not just send Elsa away, if she herself, or her secret getting out are all that dangerous? If the trolls know about it, they might know where she would be safe, with other magical beings. Why have both the king and the queen go to look for answers to Elsa's "problem"? Why have either one of them? Didn't either of them have a relative or friend they could trust with the task? Why does no one ask, "Where are the queen's and princess' ladies in waiting", for heck sake?! LOL Anyway,...rant/off
The amount of thought they put into the world building of frozen is damn near close to zero
They pretty much came up with only enough "vibes" to connect the musicals and the pretty ice scenes
Omg you said that this wasn't the most interesting topic to talk in a video but I JUST ADORE THESE VIDEOS. Like, there are not many political analysis of films, fictional kingdoms etc, and when one comes up, I. Am. Thrilled! Most people don't find it interesting, I adore it! Tysm!
I feel like the people of Arendelle were like a majority of people in late antiquity, they did not care who was in charge, as long as they had safety, security, and weren't taxed too hard
I never examined the inner workings of the kingdom until today. Thank you for this intriguing video, since the first time I watched it I was only focused on the ups and downs of the plot.
Well, there is a scene in 1st movie, where Hans was basically only character trying to solve the problems cause by Elsa and the storm. Sure, he might have done it so he could rule, but to be honest, like 150+ years ago, most countries around the world were ruled by people from german houses, despite german nations had significantly smaller area under control. Notably Habsburgs (outside Austria), Wittelsbachs, Winsdors (originally named Saxe-Coburg and Gotha).
And about the people's happiness when Elsa is cheered when she is back in her role of queen ... well, what else they are supposed to do ? Imagine there is somebody you do not like and you actively try to go against them. I think there is reasonable assumption, they will be fighting back in some way, depending on level of conflict. So I think it is also reasonable, if you try to take executive power from a monarch, they will do whatever they can to keep it (maybe not every single monarch ever, but come in, it is as you said like 18th century, and the peasants saw royals 2nd day in their life, so they cannot know them much anyways). So essencially you would be against angry person who can create ice spikes and the worst conditions you can imagine (possibly even worse) as they want and you have no idea how to defend yourself if they target you. Plus you have no idea how to even attack and what will work. Will you try risking your life, or you would rather just seem happy, clap in the rhytm and hope you will not see them another 15 years?? :D
Considering an armed guard went after Elsa and she came back alive and instantly broke out of custody it would make her seem to impossible to fight. Especially if the guards tell about how she made an ice palace, ice golems, etc and it was only a lucky shot that got her caught. At that point you just try to keep the scary ice lady happy. I mean its clear that she instantly undoes whatever damage she did so maybe it could be argued that they sent out word that it was an accident and she was in better control now and so maybe it would elevate some of that fear but still no-one wants that smoke.
Theory: there's a cabal of men (possibly one woman in there) who pretended that their commands were coming from the Palace. They ran the place and moody stopped then because nobody had a better idea. They thought they could get Elsa to go back into isolation after the coronation.
They keep Hand have power so that they have someone to blame for this mess. He might be King but as soon as he tried to make signify decisions, hunting accident, so tragic.
Well when the castle was shut up, I assumed that the dad still left and did king stuff with minister people who wore epaulettes and whatnot.
And those people just kept running things. After all. They organized the coronation.
Even in the earliest plot when their parents were lost in the sea and pronounced dead, Arendelle wouldn't survive... i mean, a child leader? They either be manipulated by the royal courts to do their biddings or the neighbouring kingdoms would take advantages... and lets be real, with how young Anna is and how Elsa is so deep in her self wallowing, the citizens wouldn't want neither of them to be queens... they'll start a rebellion and cause internal war within the kingdom.
2nd I love this channel so much ty for all the hard work
For what I understand the movie was really made in like one year, with constant rewritings and the CGI equivalent of reshootings, and then Disney gave a shit-ton of marketing to literally bury the inconsistencies of the plot.
Beauty and the beast had this same problem with the prince.
Disney oversimplification strikes again...
I happened to watch these royal dramas back when I was small so I was wondering about that too when I saw Frozen.
If both the queen and king died and both their young heirs were shut-ins, who the heck was in charge of the place? Why is no one assassinating them? Maybe the nobles liked the royal family that much or other nations let them exist there because there's either nothing worth taking or there's something there that should be contained. There is Elsa and there is their prosperous kingdom that can generate some cash. Why wasn't anyone doing the funny?
According to the movie, Elsa was coronated when she turned 21, that means her parents died when she was 19. Who was the reagent ruling for those 3 years? That isn’t even mentioned or alluded too.
Hans didn’t just take over the kingdom, he was appointed regent by Anna when she left the city to look for Elsa. His power was explicitly given by the heir to the throne, hence why the people and royal guards are willing to obey his orders.
Arguably the most unrealistic part is that it takes place in a small island in northern Europe and yet the havent been conquered my a major empire like the British empire or the Swedish empire.
God, thanks for bringing this up cause these were major gripes i had with frozen 1. The main antagonist just makes 0 sense because logically he should hold no power over the kingdom
Frozen 3 - Anna gets violently usurped by the people of Arendale while Elsa gets teased as a lesbian for making eye contact with a random female we never learn the name of. Olaf gets his own spinoff show where he is the new King of Arendale since he was made by Elsa and that technically makes him her "son".
I’d watch that
She does have a name Honeymaren
Elsa as a lesbian. Don’t give the internet any ideas…
@@iamagishe’s already in a relationship with Anna in the R34 circles; too late, buddy
@@iamagi I think she's PROFOUNDLY asexual 🤣
Sounds like a job for some world builders to rework this kingdom into being able to feasibly function. You would think that your Queen being able to control aspects of the natural world and having magical rock trolls as part of your council would be a boon for the kingdom.
Honestly, Elsa abdicating the throne to Anna was probably her best decision as monarch.
She doesn't have any romantic male partner that can give her an heir and thus pass on the throne to someone, which is essential in a hereditary monarchy. Anna's action to get Elsa back are entirely logical. She's the only one who can fix the winter storm and it makes sense that she would listen to someone like Anna. Even Hans tries to talk to Elsa, so it's responsible to leave the kingdom to talk to her, but you're right that who is to be in charge of her absence is another.
There's no reason to believe that Christoph, who lives in 19th century Norway, would be illiterate. This is the 19th century, not 11th century. Through Protestant confirmation and education, people had started to learn to read if for no other reason than to read the Bible.
Yes, he might not be cut out for all the practical effects of governance, but so what? He's not the real monarch, Anna is. She has basically just as much knowledge as Elsa when it comes to governance and I don't think she'd be any worse.
I still wonder the deaths and lash back from the blizzard.
I won't be surprised if Arrendel is a litteral city state in every way possible EXCEPT the titles
Love this commentary! Please share more random takes of movies :D
You're forgetting this is a magic kingdom in a magic world. In the words of our new king Todd Howard, "all of this just works." Lol
Every time I heard "that does not make sense" - that is exactly how things work.
Modern equivalent of nobility is not a government. Nobility are owners.
If we use the analogy of a kingdom to a company (which it actually is), Elsa and Anna are share holders. They don't run the kingdom. They own it. They are only needed to show to other kingdoms that somebody owns that land, so it is united against attackers. That is their whole job. To be in the castle
You have nobility but above that, you have Royalty. Royalty is the ruling class, so its more expected of royals to lead then having just nobility. The chain goes like this: Royals(Ruling family), Nobles (Owners and Knights), Clergy (i think?), Merchants, peasants.
@@IN-tm8mw Royalty is nobility. They are first among equals. Job of a king is to settle disagreements between nobles. King is basically a nobleman with added responsibility of a judge
@@jankom.7783 Yup, Leadership.
With her ice powers, Elsa can rule like a tyrannical despot. nobody will have the courage to overthrow her since she can just freeze the entire kingdom. She could also justify her rule with the ice powers saying she was blessed to rule or something.
Loved the video, but definitely think they are in better hands than some of the other Disney kingdoms lol
Arendelle feels like one of those weird, small principalities or city states that the Prussian Empire would have steamrolled through and added to their empire down the road. Might make for a fun sequel at least, lol
It could kind of make sense in the first movie because they didn't do much worldbuilding so you could always put in a self-consistent version that did make sense and not contradict the movie. The only weird thing is no one seeing the princesses for several years. This is going to be impossible unless your entire staff gave the secret service oath or whatever, but most of the rest of the world can make sense.
Finally some logic about Frozen and not that let it go shit😭
neither should the kingdom of Belgium, yet here we are ;p
Nice try but Belgium isn't a real place.
that was exactly my point.... yet it exists, and we like it here ;)
This could all have been solved with a throw away gag about some tired looking guy walking up and telling one of the royals that the monthly finances have been taken care of during that whole opening up the castle bit in the first movie, establishing that its not an absolute monarchy, but something in the middle.
That wouldn't make it not an Absolute Monarchy. The difference between an Absolute Monarchy, a Constitutional Monarchy, and a Ceremonial Monarchy is where the power is derived. In an Absolutist Monarchy the King is in charge of everything and is the primary source of power and in in this instance a King could absolutely appoint someone to manage finances instead of himself that doesn't change the dynamic as the king could get rid of such an advisory at any moment, a Constitutional Monarchy is where a King is limited by rules and stipulations usually imposed by a Parliament or Congress in which case the King could do the exact same thing or would have to get approval from the legislature, and lastly the Ceremonial Monarch is just there for show and might only be asked for some advise nothing more.
Maybe the peasants didn't seem to care about whoever was on the throne because they simply don't care. Guys are essentially governing themselves, as you said. I like the idea that while the royals are off making a big fuss about random BS, the peasants just run the place as normal. They're what made Arendell so nice not the royals.
Exactly. Everyone just goes about their life as normal according to local custom and common decency, and so what if their isn't some "supreme leader" or "council of superiors" lording it over everyone and imposing taxes and things.
Perhaps Arendelle is subdivided into local villages or suburbs that appoint their own local "chief" to oversee things and make basic rulings. Perhaps every eligibile citizen is expected to serve, say, a year, in this role, as part of a rotational system? Or a local council is appointed or elected completely seperately from the Monachy? Or there are even judges appointed in a seperate system who have authority to make decisions in cases of civil disputes - by far the most common cause of conflict and need for mediation.
Perhaps their is some sort of citizen militia or police force that runs via volunteers, or a short term of compulsory service, or even paid via a small local tax that everyone contributes?
The idea that a small city-state can't run without a supreme leader or government making every decision is farcial. As you said "the peasants just run the place as normal. They're what made Arendelle so nice" - totally agree - they just have a functioning social system that runs without the monarch.
The monarch of Arendelle's basic job is to maintain diplomatic relations with the neighbouring countries, and make sure they don't try to invade, as well as other diplomatic deals. This is exactly what we see in Frozen - that system has broken down and the neighbouring countries have finally become suspicious enough to come sniffing to see if there's any way they can take over (Hans) or perhaps get some economic exploitation going on (Duke of Weaseltown).
This is actually a great video. I see a lot of stories (especially YA fantasy) where the ruling governments makes very little sense. That’s probably because government, politics, and diplomacy are hard to understand, so it’s easier to eject that realism entirely, not realizing that those stories become quite more interesting when it actually has a role to play.
I find awesome your video cause it's part of why i never was able to like Frozen as much as i would have wanted. 🤣
The politics aspect of the movie take to much importance in it to be build so shacky and bad.
Imagine Arendalle got obliterated by Scotland
The Fire Nation from Avatar the Last Airbender also didn't seem to have very complex governmental structures. Their government just consisted of the Fire Lord and his immediate family making all the decisions. They didn't have a prime minister or a council, just one minister of war and a room full of generals advising the Fire Lord. And while Arendelle was just a small backwater kingdom of little significance, the Fire Nation was a military superpower that ruled virtually the entire world in the show. They had public schools, factories, cities and people numbering in the millions. Yet neither in the show or the comics, we never see the bureaucracy that's set up to run all of it.
I mean, maybe the Fire Nation is just an imperial-stratocracy like Rome? and I fee like the show's reason that don't see its government is because we don't really spend much time in the fire nation overall, I remember at least one episode where Aang was there disguised as a student, but its been a while so if I forgot about other episodes, there's my reason, and I have never seen the comics so I wouldn't know.
@@awerewolf299some people said that Fire Nation was inspired from Imperial Japan
@@hafizihilmibinabdulhalim1004 You're right, but I feel like it doesn't really change much to what I way saying at least I think.
@@hafizihilmibinabdulhalim1004
No, the Fire Nation is really only similar to Japan in a geopolitical sense, being an island nation initiating a war of conquest; most of its actual cultural elements - their styles of dress, architecture, etc - draw from China, Thailand, Burma, etc. Hell, the show utilizes traditional Chinese characters as script.
We did see Minister of War Qin, but to assume he's the *only* individual to hold such a position would be foolish (why else would Qin be titled so if he's the only one?) What little we know of the FN govt is that the Fire Lord functions as an autocrat with total control over the military, up to and including appointing commanders directly.
The issue is that would not have been necessary or relevant given the show is taking place during a war and the Fire Nation is economically and politically sound, thus it would make sense to see most of the government in the form of the Monarch and Military, but given we have seen Fire Nation Governors of the colonies such as the Brief City of New Ozai, it can be assumed that either the Fire Lord appointed ministers to occupy said regions in the name of the Fire Lord, and given the amount of intel being shared by the military and how organized it is, it is likely infered that there is more to the Fire Nation government, just it is either not relevant to the show or is more of a advisory role sending dispatches to either the Fire Lord or to their respective Governor. Which is much more believable and logical then what Arendelle shows with the movie focusing primarily on the issue of the government literally having ran away and a random prince taking over governance
Great video! Just a minor note at 4:57 you say Elsa zaps her sister's heart - it's actually the head at that point and later the heart when they're adults
These reviews are very interesting
8:30 To be fair, that's how royal succession worked back then, so that much at least makes sense, Elsa basically abdicated and passed the crown to the next in line, aka her sister
I like the way you went fair you went "dinner ple split into thirds spinning slowly and then the siren goes full of haywire zookinis and ghosts drawing inside of a lollipop type of cale queen gear"
what?@@rickmarty1750
Hear me out.
So what if Aaron-dale is a province/lesser-kingdom that is actually part of the larger Corona kingdom/empire from Tangled; and the king and queen are relatives or close representatives of that royal lineage. We see Eugene and Rapunzel for a moment at Elsa’s coronation day, so they ARE in the same world/universe/time period. The Aaron-dale royal family is in charge of managing this little territory that is far removed (geographically speaking) from the heart of the Corona empire, but they are merely placeholders for the actual royalty in Corona (Rapunzel’s family). They obey Corona laws, all have Corona citizenship, and pay taxes/tribute to their motherland. And so when the figurehead of their government (aka the King) disappears, there would still be structured laws in place for the territory of Aaron-dale to continue to function. Corona might have sent an administrator or something to serve as their governing proxy until Elsa reached the appropriate age to oversee the kingdom herself. The people are old fashioned, and believe that royal blood is the most pure; and so they are anxious to once again have a queen/king on their throne. They worship and idolize the royal family to the point that they are willing to wait *years* (under the temporarily-appointed supervision from Corona) for the rightful heir to be crowned.
The issue with that is, historically that doesn't happen or at least would be much more nuanced. Take in point The German Empire , the Holy Roman Empire, or the Austro-Hungarian Empire all of them had a Emperor first amongst equals and all that, and within said empires there were other kings, petty kings, dukes, arch dukes and so on with their own land and estates. The problem in and of this situation is that none of the historical monarchs were figureheads or ceremonial or even would have been, as unlike say Britain setting up a puppet king somewhere across the world, a European Kingdom would have no issue controlling another European state and as such would not need a ceremonial king to impose legitimacy when they have military and economic power that is so nearby and if they did they wouldn't be so open about it instead favoring a friendly alliance rather than annexation, so what would be more likely is that Arendelle is either a vassal of Corona, is an equal kingdom who works in tandem with Corona, or is independent and in any of those situations, the Leader of Corona could not impose their own administration without Adredellenian authorization, so while it is possible they could have sent an envoy or administration to help said kingdom they wouldn't be in full control but would be similar to a minister or temporary regent assuming they were permitted. Which is why things like parliaments and a functioning bureaucracy are crucial to any Government and in which case assuming Arendelle was an equal kingdom inside a larger empire, could and likely would have a representative from parliament assigned as regent but that is assuming there is a parliament or legislative body that has approval of the aristocracy .
@@sirsteam6455 An uncontacted tribe has more institutions of state than fantasy kingdoms tend to have.
That level of planning is beyond even their brightest genius's imagination.
First movie kind of works with a Disney "everyone is inherently good" populace; the kingdom will continue to function barring an exceptional crisis or external intervention. Which is indeed what happens. As for the end, having a queen that can control insane ice powers promises a lot for kingdom security and power. Second movie is low end Disney direct-to-video quality writing given a theatrical release; it seems to exist primarily to "fix" Elsa being more popular than Disney's originally preferred heroine Anna.