Canon EOS R5 vs R6 Comparison by Ken Rockwell
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- Canon EOS R5 vs R6 Comparison by Ken Rockwell
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Ken I’m looking forward to the day when you hit a much deserved million subscribers. I like your website, but love your videos .Your videos are great for getting real world reviews , and entertaining too boot when you keep it real .
Also I love seeing the dialogue you have with people in the comments section.
You’ve certainly helped me make better decisions when purchasing my next camera
Thank you! Unlike the big UA-camrs, a I actually shoot real things every day so don’t have all day for farting around making videos. It all comes down to the two kinds of photographers www.kenrockwell.com/tech/2-kinds-of-photographers.htm
I prefer photography centric reviews like yours. Too many reviews focus primarily on blogging and film making. Thanks
Blogging? BORing! Film making? We don’t use these kinds of cameras; we shoot Panavison or Arri, not still cameras like these. Thanks!
Wow it's ken on video. I've been reading your reviews for years. Your reviews have been on point and not just a money grab for someone to buy the latest equipment.
Thanks! Yip, I say it like it is. I couldn’t care less if people bought anything; I’ve been on the air over 20 years and always think long term. Thanks!
I find your information so reliable. I've been a reader of your blog for well over 10 years. I have learned so much about rejecting hype and really keeping photography affordable for me.
Thanks!!!
Shoot wildlife it is huge difference between 20mp and 45mp carrying the same 500mm lens, you can crop and recompose shots then print big with effectively a invisible teleconverter. The fact R5 can achieve the same high fps as R6 is a huge technology leap. In the pro DSLR world this has never been possible.
Of course. Thanks!
Sure but a TC works similarly. If you are cropping down to 20mp or less, just slap on a TC. No biggy
I still find it weird how the r6 doesn’t have a top screen, seemingly because it’s the “cheap” camera, but the r6 is quite a bit more than the R, which has the top screen.
It’s like they’re trying to treat the r5 and r6 as if they are like the R and RP.
I would still love to be able to afford or at least justify the purchase of either of them.
Then get the RP. So long as things hold reasonably still it’s still my favorite Mirrorless www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/rp.htm
Canon definitely want to create a gap in these cameras in value . See all of the unnecessary cripples.
The top screen is, to me, completely pointless given the M. Fn. button that lets you change the same functions as you're looking at the touchscreen or through the viewfinder. In fact, I find it counterproductive because the R5's mode selector wheel isn't labelled, requiring you to look at the display to see what mode you're selecting, while the R6's is labelled as on most other cameras.
The opinion expressed in cameraergonomics.blogspot.com/2018/08/top-plate-settings-displays-why-12.html, which I think I share, is that a top screen is worse than useless in that it also has an opportunity cost (here, the price is not having a dedicated mode dial).
Great comparison! Thanks! I also prefer the R6 top mode dial. It's like controlling the car's air conditioning. I prefer a physical button than a touchscreen control. The top LCD only makes sense in 35mm film SLRs. They didn't have an LCD on the back, which every digital camera today has.
Bingo! But it is personal preference and G-d bless Canon for giving us both choices.
Wow, straight forward, well articulated and no BS. Exactly what I needed to hear. I was all locked up on the mp of the R5 but the biggest I print is 40x30 and if the quality is there then the R6 is the clear winner. Thank you Ken :)
Thank YOU! Megapixels are just a way to segment the market and extract as much cash from you as possible. See also www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm
Great video again Ken , but for wildlife especially small birds the extra pixels of the R5 mean we can crop in more so I'm tempted by the R5 but I agree with you about the mode dials
Exactly! Go R5. I love it, just for most people it’s just empty pixels. The!
real world. no bs. straight to the point. ty
Thanks!!!! I’m glad you noticed; I take a lot of time trying to stick to the point and edit out the fluff.
Man you make the best videos and all from an iPhone, such a joy watching these!!
Thanks!!!!!!
Great video, straight to the facts with no fluff. Thanks!
Exactly. I work really hard to cover as much as possible in as little time as possible. Thanks for noticing!!
I remember when I shoot with 8mpix canon 1D2 and I can get 60cmx90cm good quality print out of it. Today people asking ridiculus amount of mega pixel camea just for posting it on instagram. 😂. Yeah, I totally agree with you Sir! 20mpix is plenty for wide range of uses.
Bingo!!!!
I was thinking to buy the r5 or even the r5c but I made up my mind and just go for the r6 because for the money the others I can buy a great lens and a adapter extra.
Exactly! Thanks!
Thank you for the great comparison review Ken. I am a professional nature and wildlife photographer and have been with Nikon for the last 10 years. I have recently traded some stuff for some nice Canon L glass. I am wanting to switch to Canon and also my wife is looking to get back in to macro photography. I shoot a lot of birds and other wildlife. My current thought is to buy the Canon 1DX Mark iii and the Canon R6. The R6 would be shared with my wife for her macro. I like the idea of the two cameras having the same sensor and good low light sensitivity as well as fast frame rate. We have our own gallery where we sell our work and I am also an instructor and guide as well. I would like to know your opinion of my idea for these two bodies? We traded for a used 5DS-R but I don't have a huge need for a 50mp camera. We currently own the 11-24mm, 100mm macro, 100-400mm and I would probably purchase a 24-70 or similar and the 600mm for birds. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated ? 3/28/21
DSLR and Mirrorless are entirely different. The 1dx III is much tougher. The Canon EOS R6 is amazingly faster, and set to animal eye focus amazed me because it really works! I’d get the Canon EOS R6 first and see if you can think of why you’d want the 1dx III. The biggest advantage of the 1dx III for people who don’t stand in the rain all day is that it’s faster to set. Is this helping? Thanks!
The R5 is so high in demand, not even B&H can meet the demand. It’s currently on back order.
Agreed. See www.kenrockwell.com/tech/how-to-get-it.htm for how I got mine first.
@@KenRockwellTV when I clicked on that linked, I realized that link looked familiar. It is the same site I looked at a few years ago when I purchased my Canon 50D!! So this is you? Lol. Like I said you are the best when it comes to reviewing cameras. I still have that 50D to this day. I have a mirrorless now, but I still reach for the 50D at times. Keep up the good work Ken👍
Thanks for this. Some are telling me that if you are cropping a lot (birds) 20 mp is sometimes insufficient to get good resolution. True? Most of my photos will be viewed by displayed on a computer monitor and I occasionally make a normal sized print for framing on the wall. The only issue that causes me to hesitate with the R6 is the 20 mp.
If you're cropping a lot, you need to get closer, not to buy another camera. Simple math shows that the linear resolution difference is only 1.5, which is a barely visible difference. People who don't shoot every day for a living get all caught up in this; when you actually look at the results between them it isn't much to worry about if the difference in price is significant to you. Know that pixels are an area measurement, like square feet. 45 and 20 sound like a huge difference, but actually only slightly different in how they look, and that tis slight difference is ONLY visible at HUGE print sizes (like eight feet wide); otherwise most of the pixels are simply thrown away! See www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm and www.kenrockwell.com/tech/pixel-dumping.htm Thanks!
Thank you Ken for a straight forward review. R6 for me
Thanks!!!
Thank you for an informative video. I am shooting with a 6D and 7D Mark II which are both 20mp. I have a handful of 20x30 and 24x36 prints in my home that have great image quality. I love sports and wildlife photography and if the R6 has the same animal eye detection as the R5, then maybe I'm better off saving the $1400 along with the couple hundred I'll save not buying the CFExpress card and buying the RF100-500 lens. I will just be happy having one camera for landscape and action where I don't have to memorize two sets of buttons.
Get the R6. 45mp is nice, but far from free.
I owned both and recently sold the R5...plan to buy the R3; however, I do prefer dual CFE B similar to the Nikon Z9.
Thanks!
Sorry, but if you do any amount of cropping the extra pixels come in VERY handy. That being said, I'm probably still going with the R6. When you factor in the extra cost of the R5, the $300 to $500 for CFexpress, plus the computing power needed to edit 45mp RAW images and 8k video, makes the R5 cost-prohibitive for me and most people not shooting for a living.
And I prefer the Canon EOS R6 mode dual, too. 20MP is still way more than enough for anything and still plenty of cropping, so I do t worry about it - although I’m shoring with the Canon EOS R5 right now. Thanks!
IMO, 8k is an overkill(for many 'stills shooters') on a photo/stills-centric camera which looks like an excuse to jack up the price ! Yeah it helps many hybrid shooters who shoot short clips. Canon should have released variants for specific(stills and videos) purposes and priced accordingly. 5dmk3 and mk4(in Kevin's own words "The Canon 5D Mark IV is the world's most universal DSLR") were the cameras for various applications with 'good enough' resolution. 5dS and SR with "High resolution" sensors targeted studio, landscape, architecture photography, and whatever photography that required higher/highest resolution on a full frame sensor. Perhaps the R6 must have been released with a 30mp sensor to help the photographers who do cropping, making it a complete 'Stills-centric" camera, yes 20mp is enough for many shooters, but still to have that little more additional pixels under a more affordable price tag is way better than a body with a prohibitively exorbitant price tag for a feature which doesn't matter much and also that requires us to spend a fortune on upgrading the hardware to read the files and do post production. 8k must be on a VDO Centric piece.
Even 4K is ridiculous. Thanks!
While i do think that many people will be fine with the 20 MP r6, there are a LOT of people who benefit from the 45MP r5 because they need to crop in heavily a lot, even when using $13,000 lens and a 2x teleconverter. I suggest you go outside and see what other photographers are doing as there are experiences beyond yours, no matter how many years you have been doing photography.
Of course , and you folks know who you are. Thanks!
Ive got the R5 and i love it! best camera ive put hands on, not really tempted to have a R6 as a backup but im sure its great, hoping for an R7 soon (crop)
Ha! R5 best camera ever. Go shoot! Thanks!
Agree with on on the r5 top screen, would rather have the control dial on ghr r6, but you can use the larger LCD screen when making selections, so it is not quite as bad as you make it seem. In the dark, the r5 might have an advantage but i rarely shot in really dark conditions.
All agreed. Personal preference, and Canon gives us the choice. Bravo!
I’d rather have two CFexpress cards like in the 1DX3, now we will be stuck with the slower UHS-2s for another decade. Had we bit the bullet now, prices would quickly drop to reasonable levels.
Well see. Always wondered how the Sony A7 series all cheerfully use SD for video and no one has any problems.
The main draw for the high pixel rate of the R5 is the ability to do some seriously heavy cropping without losing your image
I prefer to get closer. Thanks!
How come I never saw your channel before, great content 💫
Many thanks for watching!
Ken has been advising us for years on gear but has only comparatively recently embraced UA-cam for his reviews. Keep watching and check out his website. Great advice on both, especially the website for historical gear. I am really enjoying Ken catching up with the UA-cam generation.
Added megapixels can come in handy if shooting nature and the animal is farther away/smaller in the image, and same with event photography where heavy cropping may be necessary once in a while. Otherwise of course you'll never see the difference! R6 owner and freaking love it!
Seems right, but in actual practice(get it yourself as I have) the difference is nearly to completely invisible. See www.kenrockwell.com/tech/pixel-dumping.htm
@@KenRockwellTV appreciate it! For many years I've heard your name and of your exceptional knowledge in photography.
Good comparison Ken. I prefer the top screen and combo dial but that's just me. I have a friend that wants to get an EOS R and RF to EF adapter. Seems the R is in short supply at some places and the adapters, any version, aren't available anywhere. B&H, Adorama, ect. We looked. And yeah, scalpers. There's a few places online with the adapters asking triple the retail price for them. Crazy!!
BTW, got an EF 70-200 f4L USM IS version 2 for $675 used!! Mint condition and under 6 months old. Love it. Talk about sharp!! And light too. Half the range but half the weight (feels like) of my 100-400L Version II.
I got my adapter at Ebay, cheap. Thanks!
Did you try shooting with some EF lenses like the 100-400? I'm looking to buy a R6 with the new RF 800 for wildlife. You can get the two for the price of a R5. Do you like the R6 for wildlife and cropping?
Absolutely. Canon EOS R6 is the same as the Canon EOS R5 except for pixel count, and I prefer two SD cards and a real mode dial. See www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/compared.htm and each cameras formal review links from that page. Thanks!
@@KenRockwellTV Not just pixel count, but also individual pixel size. They have completely different sensors. R6 pixels are larger than the pixels on the R5, thus making it better for low light. R6 uses the same exact sensor as the1DXMIII - Canon's flagship pro camera. This is a big difference and why I am still struggling to decide between them. I need low light capabilities for indoor sports, but I also need better cropping capabilities for outdoor sports. Tough decision!!
I have to say I own both the R5 and the R6 and I use my R6 more often the files in the R5 are gigantic and I hate the CF Express card since I don't do 8K video it's really just useless coat
Bingo! My thoughts exactly. I do set my Canon EOS R5 resolution down most of the time. Thanks!
Wonderful summary. Excellent point about mode selection. Tbd, upgrade from D6 for some astrophotography.
Thanks!
Hmmmm. Many have been shooting the 5D4 but now Canon has given us the R5.......more resolution, more dynamic range, less noise, faster frame rate, larger buffer, killer AF, flip screen and more. Need we discuss the lineup of RF glass? Yet people complain.
Exacrly; and R5 works great with all EF as well as RF lenses. Thank goodness we can forget about Nikon and Sony and Fuji.
Thanks for the video Ken. I’m a headshot photographer (mostly). The one thing that worries me is that I shoot my headshots horizontally and crop to a 1X1. Do you think with the R6’s 20 mp this cropping would be OK?
Of course. I don’t know where you’re selling these images, but you can download my square crop files from my review and see for yourself at www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/r6.htm#sampleimages Thanks
Ken .. have you added a note that can post across all your website review pages that you have this UA-cam channel? Cheers, MDV of Oregon
It’s on my home and news pages, marked UA-cam. THANKS!
Thats where you are wrong sir, i crop my pictures big time 😂 and need all those pixel to have something half decent
why don't you frame correctly or get a more suitable lens ..you will get better results
@@77appyi it is not always an issue of framing in wildlife or sports you may simply be unable to get closer and a longer lens can cost 10K and weigh 3 extra kilos or be a stop slower.
@@dimitristsagdis7340 I would rather use a crop sensor for wildlife anyway and then R6 for anything else.
Well said, guys. Thanks! Sure, if you’re cropping and need the pixels, R5 is awesome. Adddd advantage of having a kit of forgiveness if framing is off and also you can see outside the frame as they approach.
Steve Lowe yeah I agree but Canon doesn’t do as yet any crop body with the R5/6 AF. Do you have any rumours that I don’t have ;-))
Best reviews online
Best comments on UA-cam!! Thanks!
I love Ken Rockwell. Nuff said
Love you guys! Thanks!
Hi， Ken, I saw you compared Canon 100-500 mm with 100-400 mm. Can you compare Nikon 80-400 mmm with Canon 100-400mm? Thank you.
No comparison. Nikon is a mostly plastic offshored consumer lens, while the 100-400 II is an all metal pro lens made in Japan and focuses much faster and much much closer than the Nikon. The insulting part is the Nikon is priced about the same if not more! Eeech!
@@KenRockwellTV Thank you very much for instruction
Brilliant video as usual 👏
Thanks!!!
Great video!
Would you advise to upgrade from rp to r6/r5?
Only if you need 20 FPS or otherwise can't catch what you're trying to shoot with the RP. Also the Canon EOS R6 and Canon EOS Canon EOS R5 are much better at and above ISO 25,600, but you should never have to shoot at ISOs this high if you’re using the camera properly. Does this help?
Good review comarison...good speaker voice...
Thank you!!!!
Just brushed off that cfexpress card slot bring in the Canon. No mercy for Nikon though. Dont even mention that it is faster than SD. 😜
Thanks!
It's a quick search to check that the view finder and back screen are superior on the R5 vs R6. That's #1 thing that comes up in comparison after megapixels...
Has better specs on paper, but having owned and shot with them both, the difference was never obvious in actual use: the difference between someone who shoots every day for a living versus reading specs. Thanks!
Which would you pick overall? Also one does shoot in 8k video have you noticed an improvement because of it?
I use video cameras for video, not these so no comment on 8K. People have to be kidding; who even has an 8K monitor and when you do you have to be a foot or closer to see the difference between 4K on a 60" screen. These are different cameras for different jobs. I use R6 for sports, R5 for nature/landscape or sports, and the RP is awesome also for everyting except action. Thanks!
@@KenRockwellTV Thank you for the info. Would you recommend the r5 maybe for real estate photos or weddings?
Ken, I've never heard anyone saying they prefer the noise of the R5 compared to the R6. But coming from you, I have to ask why?
I forget. Which noise? As always, Read my written reviews for the full details. www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/r5.htm and www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/r6.htm
Nice, balanced comparison. Thanks!
Thanks!
Wildlife photographers will desire 45 MP. You mentioned frame-rate but did you discuss the buffer of each camera?
I wish exposure metering would follow the AF point across the frame in AF tracking mode, like the 1DX3. Also, it is 2020, so why can't Canon illuminate the buttons?
Generally, Canon hit it out of the park!
Yepper, the Pentax K-1 has illuminated buttons and lights everywhere for dark shooting! Why can't other camera companies be as innovative as Pentax?
Jay G. Other companies have illuminated buttons dude, so that is not innovative. They just needed that to have s chance of selling a few more cameras.
Canon at best achieved parity with Sony if that. I'm not a Sony fanboy; I have been shooting Canon for 30 years. I appreciate Canon is more durable, better plastics, ergonomics etc. But it also keeps cutting corners while charging a lot for mid-range tech. The 20MPs sensor is at least 8 years old; so why am I paying the 2K for an R6 and I do not even get a crappy 80s LCD on top. The bar for hi-res these days ain't 45 but 61 MPs. Illuminated buttons is nothing exotic; Nokia mobiles had them 20 years ago. And a R6 style rotating dial on top of the R5 would be nice. Also this split of R5 (45) vs R6 (20) leaves a massive gap in between; what will happen to the R-line? I think 30-36 MPs maybe the sweet spot ; leaving a bit of room to crop and still small enough to store. However, with the new model numbering system but there is no number available between the R5 and R6 so is this the 'new' secret strategy Canon plans to follow from now on? I don't like it a single bit. Will it maintain the R-line as in R mark II, III and so on as a separate line? And will we see the new AF system find its way to an R mark II? I do not care much for video I'm a stills first, but I do need the good AF for wild life and sports and I've been holding on to my Canon glass for that. So now that we've got the good AF why do I feel forced to spent 4K on a body if I want a good AF and anything more than 20MPs ? Doesn't add up in 2020. Maybe I'll just wait for a R mark II kind of variant / or for R5 prices to come down.
@@dimitristsagdis7340 Yep. You should just stew a while and wait for something you can afford. lol
Dimitris Tsagdis The 5DM4 was 30 MP and it wasn’t enough. 50 MP is the sweet spot. The truly high res mark will be ~83 MP, not 61 and that will come with a performance hit, so you can’t ever have it all in one body. The r5 is a 5DM4 level body in 2020, not a 5DSR level body in 2020. The R5 is a general use, versatile body, not a specialized one. That will probably come next year.
I've heard that the R5 out resolves older lenses. I want to get the R5 but will my current glass be good enough?
24-105L f4 V1
16-35L 2.8 V1
70-200L 2.8 VII
100-400L V1
Baloney. Old EF lenses on the EF to RF adapter also work great. The R5 and R6 both have digital lens optimizers that work with the EF lenses. What’s changing over the years in lensss isn’t resolving power; it’s features like IS or closer focus or less weight. The 1989 50/1.8 or 300/2.8L are still some of the sharpest lenses ever made.
Whats the build quality differences?
Identical. Thanks!
Still cant decide what to get.. I have a 5D mk3, so this will be a big upgrade! I already ordered the adapter (ef-eosr) since I have some great EF canon prime lenses.. I want to branch out more into video and I am leaning towards R5 only for that reason.. Any suggestions?? Im in stage 4 of overanalyzing this!! LOL
Why buy anything? Mirrorless is different, not necessarily better, depending on what you want to do.
4:11 did you mean to say R6 instead of R5?
It’s correct as is. I prefer the results from the R5 at every iso. The highest iso of the R6 looks terrible.
I still shoot with my Nikon d700 and i love it 😻 i think it has something like 12mp? But good enough for instagram XD
Every product shot I use is shot on my 12 MP D3 (same as your d700) - and it’s still more resolution than 4K video.
Does an Apple Watch count as an expenditure, loving that watch with the Milanese loop, it looks so classy!!
Well, it’s not going up in value so it’s value is the pleasure it gives you. Review at www.kenrockwell.com/apple/watch/series-5.htm like a cell phone, once you have one you’ll never live without it - especially if you work out a kit.
I have been shooting with a Canon 6D, 6DII, and an 80D for a number of years, all cameras with 20-26MP. I am primarily a Bird and wildlife photographer and admittedly I do crop many of my images and sometimes quite a bit. (I almost never use video.) That said, I mostly post on IG and I rarely print larger than 13x19". Will I be disappointed with the R6, instead of the R5? Part of me doesn't want the 45 MP because it will likely require I upgrade my computer/storage, as well as the purchase of more expensive CFexpress cards... but then you read that if you crop lots you will welcome the extra MP. Is it true that both the R5 and R6 have a "crop" mode? Would this simulate my shooting with the 80D? I have many Tamron lenses. Will they work with the adapters on either of these cameras? Sorry for all the questions!
I love questions. Yes, r5 and r6
Both offer crops. See the complete
Reviews at www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/r5.htm and www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/r6.htm the 1.6x APS-C crop of the Canon EOS R5 is 17mp and from the Canon EOS R6 is 8.8MP. All you need is 2 MP for awesome Facebook or Instagram - but people worry too much. When shot as APS-C the finder magnifies more and the file sizes are a little smaller than you’re getting from the 80D. It’s all good, but the 80D is good, too. Just that the Canon EOS R6 or Canon EOS R5 run at 20 fps
Can you please do RP and R or all of them!? I love this.
That’s at www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/compared.htm my website it the source; these UA-cam’s are just small excerpts for fun.
Ken is it worth to switch from canon 6d to r6???
All depends on you and what you're goining to do with it. See www.kenrockwell.com/tech/upgrades.htm thanks!
Thanks for the review of r5. I am tempted to get the camera. Even r6 looks good. I’m a beginner with t6i. Do you recommend the r5 or r6 for beginners? I feel like I won’t be buying another body for at least 5 years if I buy either one. My main focus is landscape and possibly wild life down the road.
Thanks again
Easy: R6 is more practical, unless you really need 45mp (no one does) or are just the sort of guy who always deserved the best regardless of price. Also look at the very different top control displays and controls. See also www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/compared.htm Thanks!
Thanks for the reply. Do you think the RF lenses are worth it? It looks like the lenses cost a lot more.
Lens caps?!?!?!
I don’t need no stinking lens caps. Thanks!
So the biggest difference is price and mp??? Nothing about video?? 😂
I don’t shoot video with this kind of camera. Thanks!
I understand and appreciate your reply. It’s just that...well it’s kind of like saying the biggest difference between a pick up truck and a family sedan is cabin room. Then someone says “ what about the bed of the pickup truck? That’s quite a big difference. The key difference honestly.” And then responding by saying “yeah I don’t use the bed of a pickup truck.” Could indeed be very true. Just an interesting take for a reviewer. All good tho!
And they have completely different sensors. R6 uses same sensor as the 1DXMIII - individual pixels are bigger which makes it better for low light. I can't decide between the two!
good video
Thanks!
Have U tried Unique Photo in NJ?
Never. I would not recommend them. I use ONLY these stores www.kenrockwell.com/links.htm#stores and been using most of them since the 1970s!
The R5 is not worth the $1400.00 difference between it and the R6.
And there you have it. Thanks!
Dude! You need to show down a LOT! You talk a million miles a minute. Also, your hands make me nervous. The speed of your hands for sure match the speed of your voice. I HATED how you banged the 2 cameras together all the time. You need to stop this.
Thanks, for speed, find the gear or settings icon in your player, select it and select Playback Speed and choose 0.75x or 0.5x. Personally I want to be as to the point as possible and get on with it, so I go fast. Thanks!
Second btw, please my price
Try www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547010-REG/canon_eos_r6_mirrorless_digital.html?BI=287&KBID=1037 or www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547009-REG/canon_eos_r5_mirrorless_digital.html?BI=287&KBID=1037 and see www.kenrockwell.com/tech/how-to-get-it.htm
First
Thanks!
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