Pro Tour Dragons of Tarkir Round 6 (Standard) Owen Turtenwald vs. Stephen Madden

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 29 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 354

  • @IgoRStripes2
    @IgoRStripes2 9 років тому +7

    Strength from the Fallen deck.... fun times. Sure, not exactly a deck that is at the same absolutely power level as some others... but it's fun and great to see that there are options like this out there that are actually decent. Not every deck has to contain Ascendancy, Rhino or Tasigur. This is what is so awesome about the game. The variety.

  • @JaakkoAA
    @JaakkoAA 9 років тому +65

    49:46 Patrick Chapin plays two lands same turn?

    • @JaakkoAA
      @JaakkoAA 9 років тому

      Alexander Storm I wondered that too at first but the opponent has Urborg in play.

    • @alexanderstorm6062
      @alexanderstorm6062 9 років тому

      JaakkoAA Yeah. I saw it now. Thought that was his grave. I hate when people arrange their table like this.

    • @amskil8511
      @amskil8511 9 років тому +5

      JaakkoAA Urborg?
      He PLAY Scry-land - and then he play FETCH-land. 2 land-drops in one turn! What Urborg?

    • @alexanderstorm6062
      @alexanderstorm6062 9 років тому +1

      Amskil Yeah. But we didn't saw the Urborg. So it looked like he made mana with Windsweapt Heath which was not possible because of a missing Urborg. But there was an Urborg.Anyway. He wasn't allowed to cast Windsweapt Heath so it doesn't matter if there's an Urborg or not...

    • @tigerstyle8888
      @tigerstyle8888 9 років тому +16

      yeah sure patrick. let's go back to the tape. let's neglect the pro tour level play, and administer camera review. go back to the turn you scried with a temple, cast read the bones, didn't scry and just drew the cards, then played an untapped land off the top to cast elspeth.
      let's go back to the tape

  • @nathanielbenangelo2989
    @nathanielbenangelo2989 9 років тому +1

    Thank you for showing all of this! Watching the judge decision helps ensure faith in the system. =)

  • @huddleaw
    @huddleaw 9 років тому +18

    Couldn't have shown one of those inside R&D videos or something instead of humiliating Patrick for 15 min? Lol, come on coverage team...

  • @mayasartcorner3192
    @mayasartcorner3192 9 років тому +1

    I liked the head judge´s approach. Understanding and letting them explain their story, but standing firmly on the rules.

  • @tylerdurden5127
    @tylerdurden5127 9 років тому +17

    On the following day (day 2), on Round 13, the Itallian (Edit: Marco Cammelluzi if I'm not mistaken) had Courser of Cruphix on the battlefield and a Siege Rino on the top of his library, he cast Read the Bones, saw a Utter End underneath the Rino and drew both cards WITHOUT REVEALING the Utter End... but since no one noticed it, he didn't get a game loss. Shouldn't the judges have done something about that??

    • @R0DisG0D
      @R0DisG0D 9 років тому +15

      Tyler Durden Different situation that can be fixed a lot easier. There are no restrictions on what Read The Bones can draw, so he did not add extra cards to his hand. If he had been caight, all he would have to do is reveal his hand so his opponent has the information that he should have had. Ajani however has the restriction on what he can add to the hand and thus you have to verify you are picking a legal target (by revealing it). Revealing your hand afterwards does not solve this problem as any card in your hand could be the one added by Ajani.

    • @StarkosiTV
      @StarkosiTV 9 років тому

      Tyler Durden You're drawing 2 cards at the same time. So no. Welcome to MTG.

    • @Athildur
      @Athildur 9 років тому +2

      Robby Stark Games That is incorrect. Drawing cards never happens 'at the same time'. You don't draw a pile of two cards. Drawing cards always happens one at a time and it should be revealed.

    • @jdunlapmusic
      @jdunlapmusic 9 років тому

      +Tyler Durden Well, considering he argued that he didn't see the two cards Chapin drew, he probably didn't understand the way that drawing cards with an active Courser worked.

  • @jacebelerin9219
    @jacebelerin9219 9 років тому +23

    Chapin needs a break. He was making misplays from left to right. Right when he draw 2 cards from read and bones instead of scrying first I knew he's not thinking straight.

    • @onwingsofshadow
      @onwingsofshadow 9 років тому +3

      Jace Belerin Played two lands that same turn. Couldn't believe how much he stumbled.

    • @jacebelerin9219
      @jacebelerin9219 9 років тому +3

      Yeah, he needs to go look into a mirror and remind himself that this is not his first rodeo. I think his lost in the finals last world championship is effecting him.

    • @Thleepricon
      @Thleepricon 9 років тому +2

      Jace Belerin I mean misplays are so easy to make, lack of sleep or nerves, you can clearly see that it wasn't intentional.

    • @girthpapi
      @girthpapi 9 років тому +4

      Thleepricon I'd like to think that too, because I've always liked Chapin, but "misplays" to get Elsepth on the board are a little convenient. Not only did he play the extra land, he didn't play it correctly. That's just really odd for someone at this level, even under pressure.

    • @FearsomeFerret
      @FearsomeFerret 9 років тому

      Eric Huckaby How did he play it incorrectly? It was definitely unintentional

  • @JoshyKel
    @JoshyKel 9 років тому +3

    57:41 Chapin clearly just looked at the top four cards, put the Tasigur down on top of his hand, and then Michele only brought up the point that the card was not revealed properly when Chapin picked up his whole hand including the Tasigur. The ruling was correct.

  • @downsjmmyjones101
    @downsjmmyjones101 9 років тому +1

    And here we come to an interesting distinction of what a "hand" in Magic is actually considered.

  • @mauromarino6380
    @mauromarino6380 7 років тому +3

    that second land for the Elspeth.. was definitely suspicious... he played and tapped that land really quickly while his opponent was distracted removing his tokens... Patrick knows what he was doing.. KARMA!

  • @BFinFlavin
    @BFinFlavin 9 років тому +1

    grr wish I could see every card played close up, does any channel do that?

  • @Ryees9
    @Ryees9 9 років тому +8

    Seems really easy to say, "I didn't know what cards are in your hand," sitting across from one of the best players in the world who's about to ultimate an Ugin. Chapin had turned the corner. Good opponent was looking for his one outer, and Chapin accidentally gave it to him. Ruling was, while accurate, unfair. Evan Erwin puts it very nicely in the video he put up today on the Magic Show channel.

  • @nhaskell
    @nhaskell 9 років тому +14

    Shame that happened. Chapin looks like he is on the ragged edge. Needs more sleep.

  • @maitrevince7316
    @maitrevince7316 9 років тому +2

    I'm french and i dont really understand all the dislikes, can someone explain?

  • @billyslams
    @billyslams Рік тому +1

    Chapin played an extra land the turn he played Elspeth. Played Temple and then another in Windswept heath to cast Elspeth.

  • @thumb023
    @thumb023 9 років тому +10

    I can feel Chapins frustration. This action was just so unnecessary. He has all the time in the world being in the extra turns and most likely would just have won that game pretty easy. If I got this right, the ruling was based on him "drawing an extra card", so basically cheating. But this wasn't the case at all. He was just too frantic with Ajanis ability, wanting to end the game quickly since they were already in the extra turns. Very messed up situation, but with an intelligent view on this a warning would have been sufficient, no matter how the official rules consider this incident.

    • @santileper
      @santileper 9 років тому +10

      Michael Lemke "no matter how the official rules consider this incident"
      Your statement pretty much means "fuck the rules"
      They are made that way so they can be consistent, no matter if there's a GP on China or if is a PT in Europe. They have to be the same for every Magic player...

    • @Einzelwolf
      @Einzelwolf 9 років тому +5

      Santiago Calderón Garcia Exactly, you can't go soft on cases like this, be it a Pro Tour or a minor championship.

    • @MisterMajister
      @MisterMajister 9 років тому

      Santiago Calderón Garcia Amen! And maybe this will force Chapin to play more controlled in the future, and not e.g. be cheating out lands in his stress, as he does at 49:46.

  • @martinbrunet2589
    @martinbrunet2589 9 років тому +1

    Proceedings of hearing and proof are inadequate. Rulings and recourses are fine.

  • @jacobbirdsong5783
    @jacobbirdsong5783 9 років тому +6

    49:57, he plays a land, and at 50:40 he plays another land.

  • @donnietreece5257
    @donnietreece5257 9 років тому

    The head judge looks so happy to be there. He seems fair and impartial, at least.

    • @santileper
      @santileper 9 років тому

      Donnie Treece Ricardo Tessitori is a reaaaaaally nice guy :)

  • @dylanschmitz3262
    @dylanschmitz3262 9 років тому +1

    lets just get Richard Garfield on speed dial for these moments

  • @wraith_youtube
    @wraith_youtube 9 років тому +11

    Idk man, seriously, the purpose of the rules is to prevent the players from cheating. And this is a recorded match! Why the spectators knew what was in his hand, he is willing to reveal his whole hand to the opponent. As long as a recording can guarantee me that my opponent wasn't cheating and just misplayed something, I don't want him to get a gameloss unless I'm a total jerk. In this situation, a warning plus maybe shuffling the card he got that way would be fair. Maybe just a warning.

    • @TopSetUK
      @TopSetUK 9 років тому +3

      Lemur the Playmaker joshua snyder Yes but that's setting a pretty dangerous precedent. They are playing at the top level here, and not every match has a camera on them at all times. What if this situation had happened simultaneously on another table without a camera? They're all playing in the same tournament, you can't let one off with a warning and give the other a game loss. It was a sloppy mistake from a pro, and while I have sympathy for him, the rules dictate it's a game loss so he has to suck it up and move on.

    • @wraith_youtube
      @wraith_youtube 9 років тому +1

      everyonedoesit2 What you are saying is completely correct, but I think we need to go deeper. Based on the purpose of the rules, I believe there should be a general rule saying that the rules only apply to situations when the players have a dispute. From there on, it is all about are you a douche or not...

    • @Deimos0
      @Deimos0 9 років тому +1

      everyonedoesit2 in that case, maybe every match should be recorded. I mean look at football matches - not every match has cameras, but when they do, the referee can actually use the recording.

    • @MasterDoctorBenji
      @MasterDoctorBenji 9 років тому

      everyonedoesit2 dont they all have over head cameras so the talking guys can comment well the feature match is being watched

    • @patrickslade8696
      @patrickslade8696 9 років тому

      Benjamin Saunders Only four tables in this even have cameras on them, otherwise they have people relaying information on who won games 1 or things like that to my knowledge

  • @asnlunatic
    @asnlunatic 9 років тому +3

    I love, JUST LOVE, how Chapin looks at his hand(1:09:17) while arguing with the judge as if he's still playing Magic.

  • @flynnrider119
    @flynnrider119 9 років тому +1

    First off, I have played MTG since alpha continuously. I did not not read any comments until the end controversy. I agree 100% with the judge. More importantly Patricks turn around the 49:50 second point. He plays two land in the turn. He draws instead of sryes on read the bones, THEN HE TAPS WINDSWEATH HEATH FOR MANA TO CAST ELSBETH. Three things in one turn is to me, to many.

    • @FearsomeFerret
      @FearsomeFerret 9 років тому +1

      Drawing instead of scrying with read the bones does nothing but hurt Patrick because he has less card selection and I wouldnt consider that cheating. Also, there was an urborg on the table when he played the Elspeth, so he definitely didn't cheat there.

    • @flynnrider119
      @flynnrider119 9 років тому

      Except for the fact, that land should not have been there in the first place:)

    • @FearsomeFerret
      @FearsomeFerret 9 років тому

      Mike Blake Yeah, except that. Which, is the only thing he did to cheat that game.

    • @flynnrider119
      @flynnrider119 9 років тому

      Also, Chapin lied to the judge about Michele knowing the contents of his hand based on Courser. When it switches to the match, he is holding multiple reads and there is no thoughtsieze in Micheles graveyard.

    • @flynnrider119
      @flynnrider119 9 років тому

      He played the Courser later.

  • @bradleyadkins3144
    @bradleyadkins3144 9 років тому

    I don't see the issue. Chapin looked at the top 4 cards of his library, took out a creature and put it on top of his hand. He then picked up his hand and was informed and put it back down in the same order. No position had changed in his hand, so the creature was the obvious draw.

  • @theothegreekthunder1938
    @theothegreekthunder1938 7 років тому

    Randy: who else can he appeal to
    Marshal: I don't know Richard Garfield
    I'm dead

  • @xxapoloxx
    @xxapoloxx 9 років тому +25

    Analog ruling in a digital world.

    • @TickDits
      @TickDits 9 років тому +1

      Vader Skywalker Can't show any different treatment to players in the feature match. You wouldn't ask a bystander to ok a table ruling, why use a camera because they're in the feature match? They players don't get any special treatment - he in the terms of the game - cheated. If someone on the floor made the same mistake they can't ask the 'camera to ok it'

    • @xxapoloxx
      @xxapoloxx 9 років тому

      ***** Actually you do that is why it is "THE FEATURE" and the cameras are there and NOT with a random player in the middle of the pack.

    • @TickDits
      @TickDits 9 років тому

      It literally says in section 2.13 of the tournament comprehensive rules that you cannot.

    • @herolink17
      @herolink17 9 років тому

      ***** A camera is not a bystander, it's a camera.

    • @santileper
      @santileper 9 років тому

      ***** I am sorry to tell you that he didn't cheat.
      According to the IPG:
      "The offense must meet the following criteria for it to be considered Cheating:•
      The player must be attempting to gain advantage from his or her action.

      The player must be aware that he or she is doing something illegal. "
      He didn't, otherwise he should have received a DQ.

  • @yescas18
    @yescas18 9 років тому +2

    49:46 Patrick Chapin plays two lands same turn

  • @christophhofer303
    @christophhofer303 9 років тому

    Can someone please explain it to me ? I dont really understand chapin and the Judge

  • @DillonKoopmansisMagic
    @DillonKoopmansisMagic 9 років тому +5

    Big on Patrick to extend the hand after that nonsense.

  • @PsychoSocialFilms
    @PsychoSocialFilms 9 років тому

    So i heard that patrick kept bad mouthing the judge after the game and he was dq'd is this correct?

  • @Rohan841r
    @Rohan841r 2 роки тому +1

    They should definitely be able to refer to a tape of recorded games to fix a mistake or support a ruling decision. Just like in Football games with the INSTANT REPLAY. keyword: instant. Feeling rough for how Chapin got jipped here.

  • @masterfuego
    @masterfuego 9 років тому +1

    I'm glad that he got the game loss because they missed him playing two lands earlier in the game. They got it right in the end.

  • @noahwallaert
    @noahwallaert 9 років тому +28

    This was handled completely unprofessionally by the coverage team. You need to step away from the action and talk about something else rather than commentating on a part of magic which should not be shown on camera. The fact that they started talking about cheating and wiggling his way out of it was completely inappropriate. Overall poor job on every side of the coverage.

    • @Einzelwolf
      @Einzelwolf 9 років тому +2

      Haon Law Why shouldn't be shown on camera? rulings are an essential part of the game. Do broadcast channels go to commercials when offiacial make a ruling on the SuperBowl?

    • @noahwallaert
      @noahwallaert 9 років тому +3

      Rodrigo Guerrero No but during the superbowl the refs talk it out and give a decision. In this context we watched the entire deliberation play out on camera with all of the emotions and frustration shown on each side of the table. The outcome of the event was obviously crucial to the rest of the game, however having the commentators talk about how Chapin was around when cheating was rampant was inappropriate. The main point is that we came to watch magic the gathering not to watch an emotional and disappointing judge ruling. To go back to your metaphor do you watch the football game for the time when the referees are talking about a penalty or do you watch football expecting to see football.

    • @patrickslade8696
      @patrickslade8696 9 років тому +5

      Rodrigo Guerrero An arguement a lot of people are making is that this would comlpetely turn off new players to playing magic as it makes the whole thing seem unappealing and it makes it look like this is what it would be like if they started playing.
      Also did you enjoy watching that? like that was so hard for me to watch and I completely agree the Coverage team handled it about as poorly as they could. leaving it on is one thing but to commentate on how he is trying to "Wiggle his way out" was completely disrespectful and incredibly unprofessional. No one needed to see that unfold.

  • @Deimos0
    @Deimos0 9 років тому

    Can't they review the part of the recording in these situations?

  • @MorphioEnzo
    @MorphioEnzo 9 років тому +3

    So sad, i think he must concede, he knew it was a mistake

    • @santileper
      @santileper 9 років тому

      ***** He knew it and seems like he actually knows a lot about the Infraction Procedure Guide... that's why he was asking for a downgrade first.

  • @baconguy247
    @baconguy247 9 років тому

    who was the guy playing hornet queens and hornet nests? can someone give me his name please? i have hornets, and the nests, and a few other cards, can you just link his name pleasE?

  • @PeteZa92
    @PeteZa92 9 років тому +8

    Thanks for the Chapin show but you probably should not have put this argument on camera.

  • @downsjmmyjones101
    @downsjmmyjones101 9 років тому

    So remember that if you happen to set a card down that you intend to reveal that also happens to be touching a card in your hand then it's considered in your hand.

  • @Murkaeus
    @Murkaeus 9 років тому +2

    Ach, I hate when little slip-ups like that get in the way of a good game. Fucking tragic.

  • @k0olmini11
    @k0olmini11 9 років тому

    This is tough. It's very apparent which card was the one taken from Ajani. At the same time Patrick did not do what the card says. I agree with everyone that I do not like that Marshall and Randy are discussing this.

  • @Strifferthechaosride
    @Strifferthechaosride 9 років тому

    Okay just saying I read the card from Ajani and it's a May ability so the ruling was wrong. Because the card completely states from the plus one ability that Chapin had used it states draw four cards and you may reveal a creature or aura from those draws. So the ruling was inaccurate and therefore Chapin would have won the game after using the ability from Ugin to clear the board and then playing Tasikir to use the ability to get siege rhino and then that would have been game

    • @Eckendenker
      @Eckendenker 9 років тому

      Matthew Hale The "may" means, that if you want to take one of the cards in your hand you can do so by revealing and drawing it. If you don't want to draw one of the cards, reveal nothing. So if you follow the order of the instructions on the cards it would go like this:
      1. Look at the Top 4
      2. Reveal one OR no card
      3. Put that one into your hand OR don't put any cards in your hand
      4. Put the remaining cards (3 OR 4) on bottom.
      Chapin didn't reveal at step 2 and didn't take advantage of the "may". Therefore he must put all the cards on bottom of his library. If he doesn't he is drawing an extra card.

    • @stuartalt7418
      @stuartalt7418 3 роки тому

      I know I'm late to the party, but the card says you may reveal to put it into your hand. If you choose not to reveal the card, you don't get to put it into your hand. Chapin didn't reveal the card, yet still put it in his hand, hence the game loss. On an earlier turn, he also played two lands in a turn in order to cast an Elspeth, which turned the tides of the game in his favor. His game loss was deserved.

  • @Demazman
    @Demazman 9 років тому

    That ruling against chapin was bull. He hadn't changed the order of the cards, so he could have simply just revealed the card he selected from Ajani and the game state would have been repaired without any game actions being taken. Also, everyone behind him saw the 4 cards revealed by Ajani and which one Chapin took, so they could have been consulted.

  • @cuellar4500
    @cuellar4500 9 років тому +1

    greed devotion, what an awesome deck

  • @TheThirish
    @TheThirish 9 років тому +2

    Ancona is pretty douchy :/

  • @wildblade258
    @wildblade258 9 років тому

    Where are the Charging Badgers?

  • @MirroredJigsaw
    @MirroredJigsaw 9 років тому +12

    It's very inappropriate of them to have put this ruling on camera. It just doesn't show an appropriate level of respect to the players or judges involved.

    • @AngelAluminum
      @AngelAluminum 9 років тому +7

      podoboq I disagree. I found the mechanics of the ruling very interesting.

    • @MirroredJigsaw
      @MirroredJigsaw 9 років тому +2

      Dan Nelson I also thought it was really interesting. It's just also kind of disrespectful.

    • @FearsomeFerret
      @FearsomeFerret 9 років тому

      Dan Nelson It doesn't matter how interesting you found it, that doesn't make it any more appropriate

    • @earthgasher3074
      @earthgasher3074 9 років тому

      podoboq I agree, no reason to do this to everyone involved. Everyone should check out Cedric Philips' tweets about this. twitter.com/CedricAPhillips

    • @santileper
      @santileper 9 років тому

      podoboq As a Judge, I found it really nice to watch. Watching Kevin being appealed, and then Kevin and Ricardo talking about the table situation was awesome :)

  • @willy101010
    @willy101010 9 років тому

    Wizards may want to implement a "booth review" for something like this. lol

  • @all4ourking1
    @all4ourking1 9 років тому

    Omg WOTC add a "Instant-replay judge clause" if this is an issue of "oooh what card is it." "Oh I know let's look at the footage we stream!"

  • @TheThirish
    @TheThirish 9 років тому

    I feel so bad for poor Chapin, i love that guy :(

  • @andrewasher1492
    @andrewasher1492 9 років тому

    I know Chapin played two land but too everyone who said he just drew two cards and not scrying with read the bones is wrong because he looked at them as they were put down on the table.

  • @-bdl2696
    @-bdl2696 9 років тому

    Shame to see Chapin so flustered, even before the "violation" at 57mins, his hands were shakey and he was clearly nervous. Understandable of course, being so close to the finish line

  • @Templar7202
    @Templar7202 9 років тому

    The read the bones no Scry/draw was legal. He saw the cards and chose to leave them and draw. He even states it to Michelle.

  • @krimsonviper
    @krimsonviper 9 років тому

    49:45 for the time stamp for the extra land play from Chapin though. That's makes me lose a bit of faith from him, when compared to my previous statement.

  • @ASAPMop
    @ASAPMop 9 років тому +1

    yeah, the end was quiet painful to watch. chapin not scrying from read the bones, him "cheating" by playing 2 lands in the same turn (if it was on purpose) and then not revealing from the ajani...i also think he needs some sleep. but however, i found the discussion about the ruling quiet interesting and playing 2 lands on the same turn seems to be quiet a commen mistake on pro-Level (surprisingly it's not the first time i've seen this, since it never happens to me when i play Magic)

  • @YabukiJoe69
    @YabukiJoe69 9 років тому +1

    Seems like you really need to know your rhetoric if you want to argue rules in this game.

  • @pleravens
    @pleravens 9 років тому +2

    moral of the story - place the card you want from ajani face up.

  • @thunderbug8640
    @thunderbug8640 9 років тому

    Oh I now know why everybody and their cat is playing Strength of the Fallen.

  • @nomukun1138
    @nomukun1138 9 років тому

    This was a painful situation for Patrick Chapin, a player I greatly respect. But I feel both Ancona and the judges acted the best they could. Ancona never did anything Chapin wouldn't do in his place.

  • @neobubblez
    @neobubblez 9 років тому +8

    this... should not have been on camera at all, whoever is running coverage for this event should be instantly fired for being incompetent.

    • @HeadMinerve
      @HeadMinerve 9 років тому +5

      Rob Discussions with judges have been on camera many times before. It's part of the game, even though it's not very interesting to most. And to be fair, responsibility might go to many people, since nobody reacted the way you wished. Chapin is also responsible for not giving this game away sooner. In a way, that moment is interesting, it shows up how we can discuss decisions, how tenseful competitions can be, and so on... The fact one feels bad at watching it doesn't make it objectively unvaluable to watch.

    • @neobubblez
      @neobubblez 9 років тому +2

      Head Minerve i'm not saying this from an entertainment value perspective, while there are some things that may enlighten new players to the competitive scene, I (as a judge) have to respect the privacy of other players, i'm fairly confident in saying that Chapin will say he wouldn't want this to be aired. Much like whenever a player is disqualified, it's kept pretty hush hush except with the parties involved, largely because as judges, we need to respect our players. This is, for lack of a better term, eavesdropping.
      I can understand that Patrick will feel a little bit of ridicule for his play that wasn't particularly tight, but I don't think it's appropriate to air the conversation with Riccardo.
      As far as the game itself, yes, it should have been done 10-15 minutes before he was given a game loss. I think the lesson we can take from all this is that, regardless of who you are or how good you think you are, you're still human and at the professional level, your play needs to be tight and mistake free, Patrick's play definitely didn't demonstrate that.

    • @HeadMinerve
      @HeadMinerve 9 років тому

      I agree.
      Unique moments like that did and will happen again and that's the way coverage and Magic will get better and more professional. It also gives memorable moments in Magic History, no matter how awkward they are sometimes.
      No one needs to be fired though. We all wish commentators knew the format they're commentating, judges never miss a featured illegal action, etc... but like in almost any competition, we have to deal with what is offered to us, which is here free coverage for hours, HQ, yet never perfect.

  • @BrokenChampion
    @BrokenChampion 9 років тому +2

    The Chapin fiasco was handled so unprofessionally by the broadcast team, holy cow.
    NONE of that should have seen the air. As soon as he appealed and got the head judge involved, they should've cut away. Mentioning the fact that Chapin played back when judges could be easily influenced and suggesting he could be trying to wiggle his way out of the situation is just a smack in Pat's face. How cowardly. They wouldn't say that to his face. Nor does it help that the smug italian guy was being a major douche. They WERE right about not being able to check the tape. The thousands of people out on the main floor don't have cameras to check, so they can't treat the feature match area any differently. But still. People that are sticklers to the rules like that are just too competitive. You were paying attention, Michele. You saw which card was which. He showed you his whole hand. If you'd been asking him his hand size every now and then like a good player should, you'd know he wasn't trying to cheat you. Good job finding a way to win the match, because everyone knows you weren't coming out of that one with a W without pulling something out of your ass.

    • @drewelliott7030
      @drewelliott7030 9 років тому

      Totally agree with everything you said, but the ProTour IS a highly competitive field so the rules have to be totally cut and dry. Definitely sucks and I see no malicious intent in Chapin, hopefully he was able to collect himself after. Also, what's with that wiggling out crap? He was telling his side, not trying to trick the judge.

  • @StarkosiTV
    @StarkosiTV 9 років тому +2

    When in doubt people: RTFC

  • @georgejuarez8775
    @georgejuarez8775 9 років тому

    There is a tomb in play so windswept taps for black :) but yeah he put 2 lands in play lol

  • @bohesnap
    @bohesnap 9 років тому +11

    49:58 Patrick plays him first land of the turn, a Temple of Silence.
    50:20 Patrick cast Read the Bones. (He draws 2 cards instead of Scry 2 - Draw 2, he make a mistake but justified him self saying "im drawing both", saying this because he know he is "drawing extra cards" and can lose the game, but he said that even without look at the cards... Just for avoiding the penalty, but this is not the point).
    - > 50:41 Patrick plays a second land on the same turn... a Windsweap Heath... < -
    He was ultra shaking and nervous about that play, that was an intentionated cheating behavior...
    If he doesn't play the 2nd land he would lose the game the turn after... He deserve GL for other reasons but well...
    Edit.- I know that some players makes some mistakes, the nerves makes a lot of stuff while you're playing... But... Triple penalty in less than 2 mins... 2 Game Lose actions and 1 possible DQ...
    1.- Or he is cheating all the way long or...
    2.- He is missplaying a lot and he needs a break.

    • @cardnals100
      @cardnals100 9 років тому +7

      I3ohe If I recall Chapin has condition that causes his hands to shake, I think it was mentioned in his video from 2008 or so where nassif beats him.

    • @masterprtzl
      @masterprtzl 9 років тому

      I3ohe I think it is assumed if you draw 2 and dont actually scry with read the bones that you are just assumed to have scryed both to the top.

    • @Bladius_
      @Bladius_ 9 років тому

      I3ohe "(He draws 2 cards instead of Scry 2 - Draw 2, he make a mistake but justified him self saying "im drawing both""
      That's perfectly legal. No point putting them back if they're the cards you want.

    • @bohesnap
      @bohesnap 9 років тому

      blayde hayes There's no point on calling a judge there... But if him opponent does... It's a warning.

    • @bohesnap
      @bohesnap 9 років тому

      cardnals100
      Yeah, i know, in fact... But in this clearlly case he start shaking at that exact moment... I think it was for having nerves instead of the condition... But well... I hope that Patrick don't do any of this on propuse because is one of my favorite players...

  • @Zulmagustar
    @Zulmagustar 9 років тому

    The rules are pretty straight forward. Draw then reveal then put in hand. If you were not at a feature table it would be cut and dry game loss. He did pick up the cards all together as one hand after he placed the drawn card with his hand cards. At that point its evident what has happened. If you watch you could almost say if he hadn't picked up the full hand he might have been able to reveal that card and his opponent might have been O.K. with that but its clear its in his hand with all his cards at that point. Not cheating but a mistake ....play a game with a pro at that level and most would say playing correctly is just as important as its part of the skill of the game and seperates pros from the rest.

  • @christinaandmarko
    @christinaandmarko 9 років тому

    Poor guy, lost his nerves at the end and started making mistakes. Time crunch and coming back from the losing side, no wonder his hands were shaking like crazy. The two lands on the same turn around the fifty minute mark WAS a clear mistake because it allowed Patrick to play Elspeth that turn.

  • @ianwilliams3680
    @ianwilliams3680 9 років тому +1

    This made me sad. I was really rooting for Chapin and with victory in sight he lost because he goofed due to stress. Poor guy bet he's kicking himself over that

  • @fingersmadjax
    @fingersmadjax 9 років тому

    Michele looks so happy

  • @nehkyle6344
    @nehkyle6344 9 років тому +1

    He should of got the loss on the turn he played Elspeth the started the turn with a temple of silence then played a read the bones then he played a windswept heath.. His second land of the turn so he could cast his Elspeth..

  • @michiomorizono2669
    @michiomorizono2669 9 років тому

    34 : 50 says bee sting lol don't you mean hornet sting?

  • @carlos-wq2dg
    @carlos-wq2dg 9 років тому

    No one else realised that Patrick played the Elspeth he drew from te read the bones with mana from a windswept heath?

    • @Eckendenker
      @Eckendenker 9 років тому

      carlos moreno There is an Urborg out, giving each land

    • @carlos-wq2dg
      @carlos-wq2dg 9 років тому

      Ah, ok
      Thanks mate :)

  • @ebenguenthner6601
    @ebenguenthner6601 9 років тому

    Looked like he was a little intimidated by the last match. I wish the judge just let him reveal since the footage shows him revealing a tasigur.

  • @elleeVee
    @elleeVee Рік тому +2

    i can see why he stopped playing pro magic, having to deal with judges like that

  • @magnusrasch7132
    @magnusrasch7132 9 років тому

    Wow man. Really sucks with the game loss, but chapin took it to long. Would have loved to see him ultimate ugin and win the game!

  • @billlong1466
    @billlong1466 9 років тому +2

    I cant help but feel the commentators were too harsh with the joking towards Patrick Chapin. It was an honest mistake, judge call, and decision for the game, the commentators just took it a bit far and came out looking like assholes to me.

  • @caitlinroye5530
    @caitlinroye5530 9 років тому +1

    giving him a game loss is dumb - if you watch the replay it is evidence that the card he got off ajani was in fact Tasigur - if he was trying to cheat it would be a different story but he clearly just misplayed accidentally, but even the Video shows proof that it was Tasigur and they already knew his Hand and so did the opponent, it was Revealed from Courser the entire Game both Read the bones, Ugin and Abzan charm - thats too bad he got a game Loss because he would have most likely Won and his opponent knew that, thats why he was happy about his misplay.

  • @Ic3dsoul
    @Ic3dsoul 9 років тому +8

    Yes Chapin is playing 2 lands in the same turn
    No that is NOT illegal carddraw
    and Yes Michele is lying about not knowing the 2 other cards
    next time let the judges doublecheck the rulebooks...

    • @bohesnap
      @bohesnap 9 років тому +4

      Ic3dsoul The rulebooks says that the only way to know the specific position of the card is 1.- If the card is the only card on the hand or 2.- If the card is on a specific position on the library.
      So, in fact, this was not the case...

    • @santileper
      @santileper 9 років тому +2

      Ic3dsoul Are you really saying that two Level 5 judges made a mistake on a really easy situation? ...

    • @Ic3dsoul
      @Ic3dsoul 9 років тому

      Santiago Calderón Garcia no he should have lost anyway and it was the right decision to give him a gameloss but it was the wrong ruling xD

    • @Einzelwolf
      @Einzelwolf 9 років тому +2

      Ic3dsoul Michele was not lying, Chapin played a read the bones. Without scrying by the way.

  • @vinnyv2004
    @vinnyv2004 9 років тому +1

    I have to agree with Chapin. Why couldn't he just reveal the card, you knew which card it was!?!?!?

    • @michaelmontalto
      @michaelmontalto 8 років тому

      Because the rules are clear and while it may suck, he made a game loss mistake. The rule was applied correctly. Chapin should have lost and did. -mM

  • @chaxcesouxza
    @chaxcesouxza 9 років тому

    I know that I would really hate to be in Patrick's shoes in those final five turns. Nerves getting the better of you. It was very clear through multiple displays of mental lapses. Not scrying with his read the bones. Playing two lands in a turn. Botching the ajani reveal. It especially sucks to have the whole scenario under the eyes of everyone watching. Hell, I get nervous in some games just at the kitchen table. As far as the ruling, it was exactly what it should have been; strict, consistent, and to the book. To the buzz about Randy stepping over the line with some comments, I ask this. How? He should be able to voice his opinion as a pt champ, former member of R&D, and hall of famer. Pat was clearly in a tunnel vision like state on his line of play and not really being dutiful. It was more like he was go fishing than playing a match with a real person so for him to reach for as much as he was, I was thinking exactly the same thing Randy was. The judges have decided. You lost, it sucks, so go play round seven at 5-1.

  • @wheretoplaygames
    @wheretoplaygames 9 років тому

    1: Congrats to Stephen Madden for such an awesome deck
    2: Too bad the later fake controversy took away from it. This should be 2 separate vids
    3: Chapin didn't cheat, but did violate the rules. Deal with it people.
    4: It's rediculous to say Michele is being douchey for defending his position considering they gave Chapin 20 minutes to try and worm his way out of it.
    Grow up, people.

  • @prosperwaldmann6954
    @prosperwaldmann6954 7 років тому

    Also, when he was at 2 life, he played and tapped the heath for mana

  • @pigletanator
    @pigletanator 6 років тому

    The extra land thing in order to play elspeth was sketchy as hell

  • @JMCollects
    @JMCollects 9 років тому

    Randy Buehlers comments toward the end seemed really unnecessary, honestly. I also agree that this ruling is unfair. Judges neglecting to use any readily available evidence for the sake of "fairness" yet the feature match area is already given more special treatment than the rest of the tournament. This also could have been cut and coverage could have went to something else instead of watching Chapin fight this clearly uphill battle. GG Wizards.

  • @YoungLiam74
    @YoungLiam74 9 років тому

    I'll admit i only watched the parts of the vid that are under controversy. First off he definitely played two lands that turn, no defense for that. Especially since it allowed him to play elspeth.
    And then with the ajani, right call was made. He didn't reveal and put it with the rest of his hand. He put it in his hand without revealing which is part of the cards ability and against the rules.
    I don't believe cheating was his intention in either, The case might be made for the playing two land (doubtful though seems it was just an error due to rushing), but with ajani we see he did everything correct except show the card. the 3 shipped were ineligible targets leaving only the card he put in his hand as a correct target. Sucks to lose like that but i'm not going to say man he got robbed he was going to win- when he only got to that boardstate by playing two lands intentionally or not.

  • @xWhackoJacko
    @xWhackoJacko 9 років тому

    Honestly, its really shitty that Patrick lost this for something as simple as not revealing to Ajani. His opponent could've, if he was sportsmanlike, just accepted that Chapin reveal his full hand, and not try to lame out a win on a technicality.
    I can understand his position to not just be cool with it, it is the Pro Tour, but I mean look at that game state. There is no feasible way Michele could win, it was all on tape, what Patrick did was clearly not in attempt to cheat, it was a simple slip up due to the pace of play.
    Sometimes rules are stupid.

  • @lefevreb0915
    @lefevreb0915 9 років тому

    Technically, chapin cheated before hand. He tapped a fetch land for mana, without searching for a land. And I don't see the legendary land that makes your lands swamps anywhere. Just my input

    • @SkepticalAaron
      @SkepticalAaron 9 років тому

      Bert Lefevre Michele has an Urborg in play.

    • @stuartalt7418
      @stuartalt7418 3 роки тому

      @@SkepticalAaron He still put two lands into play on the turn in question, which is illegal.

  • @MrEDTGinger
    @MrEDTGinger 9 років тому

    I understand the rules, but it sucks that if we put the match on camera, and you can clearly see the taisigur, we should be able to use that bc it is insanely obvious that Chaplin is not trying to cheat.

  • @Kelvin711
    @Kelvin711 9 років тому +2

    lol just came to watch chapin argue with the judge

  • @gabriels1163
    @gabriels1163 9 років тому

    A bad judge ruling got me to quit playing paper magic forever. I think the proper play by Patrick would have been to walk out on camera.

  • @13579dead
    @13579dead 9 років тому

    Chapin looks completely fucked up. Did he not sleep during the entire pro tour? Not only does he play an additional land at 50:40, he also lost the game to a misplay... I don't think there was any chance of him trying to cheat, it just seems to me a lot has been taken out of him up til this point in rounds...

  • @jeffreybender4416
    @jeffreybender4416 9 років тому +17

    Chapins opponent didn't earn this win

    • @mtgonline
      @mtgonline 9 років тому +11

      Actually Chapin would have lost a while ago if he didn't play two lands in one turn.

    • @jeffreybender4416
      @jeffreybender4416 9 років тому

      thats true

    • @Ballpython77
      @Ballpython77 9 років тому

      mtgonline
      very true

    • @godofhunting
      @godofhunting 9 років тому

      mtgonline at what time

    • @chakalrbn
      @chakalrbn 9 років тому

      Hunter Derennaux He played 2 lands on this turn, at 49:46.

  • @brokenswmr
    @brokenswmr 9 років тому

    There was no rush. The players were at time, and they had some breathing room. There was no reason for him to play quickly like he did, and it cost him. Same for the 2 lands he played on the Elspeth turn. Playing too fast only makes you sloppy, and it should never need to happen, ESPECIALLY after time has been called.

  • @MasterDoctorBenji
    @MasterDoctorBenji 9 років тому

    It sucks that it had to happen to Pat... He was like uuhh I just might win and then boom! Sad day

  • @McCullyClassic
    @McCullyClassic 8 років тому

    I wish wizard would create more deck tools at the common level like saytr wayfinder instead of crazy expensive rares. Always feels like commons are just filler

  • @TheDesignerXD
    @TheDesignerXD 9 років тому

    Oh man, that sucks for Chapin. An easy mistake to make. Damn.

  • @Otrebor2099
    @Otrebor2099 9 років тому

    I always have been a player that follows the rules very strictly and unfortunately for Chapin he made a mistake and by rules it’s a game loss I can understand that... BUT… there’s an example that I can point out to help improve this scenarios in the future. In the sport of Tennis there is the "challenge" option for players that are in special courts (feature courts) in which they can ask for a video proof to overrule a judge call, the thing is that in a mayor Tennis tournament this challenge system is only available in 4 or so courts, but there's more player that are playing without this advantage in the same tournament, sometimes, at the same time. So, all this Magic players playing in the feature matches area MUST have the option available to use other technologies, like video review. If a sport that makes millions of dollars like Tennis can offer this option for players in features matches courts I don’t see why Magic can’t do it the same way.

  • @jamesbowen7628
    @jamesbowen7628 8 років тому +1

    That was awkward to watch at the end there, Patrick was trying everything he could think of and just looked bad , should not of had all of that exchange on camera.

  • @derfelalternate4857
    @derfelalternate4857 9 років тому

    I also find it odd that Ancona doesn't ask Chapin, or any of the people behind him for that matter, to reveal, he first calls over a judge, ensuring that Chapin gets the loss, when Chapin is actually in a position to win the game.

  • @maniladawg
    @maniladawg 9 років тому

    Chapin vs Ancona. wow!

  • @wedgeex
    @wedgeex 9 років тому

    Pretty much reaffirming why I'll never play Magic seriously ever again. Too much rules lawyering. You could see Ancona pounce on the infraction and hope it would get escalated to a game loss.

  • @thepin8254
    @thepin8254 9 років тому

    En el minuto 49:55 juega tierra y en el minuto 50:38 juega la segunda y eso no lo vieron los jueces