I never thought I would say that, but Eamon De Valera was right. To stay neutral in WWII was the right decision for Ireland. The Americans were fans of the Third Reich until they were attacked by its most powerful ally and the Nazis declared war against the USA. The US remained neutral for as long as they weren't the target of aggression themselves and they gave a f*** about how many people had died untill a harbor of theirs, on an island they had annex not too long ago, was attacked. That's not my definition of courage. And even taking into account that Eamon De Valera was responsible for the murder of Michael Collins he was still a way better man than Churchill. Churchill was responsible for war crimes, crimes against international law and crimes against humanity, and actively took part in them, from Kabul to Athens, from South Africa to Burma. In many ways the British brought it on themselves that the Irish were more inclined to believe that the British would abuse any opportunity to frame the situation as a pretext to justify a new invasion of Ireland than to fear aggression from any other angle.
@@markharrison2544 Are you not maybe a little confused there? The USA didn’t enter World War II -, Sorry “The Emergency”, until Peal Harber was attacked on “December 7th 1941, a date that will live in infamy"?
Maybe the nation Churchill was offering was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland? You would never know. Surely an examination of British diplomacy in the middle East would suggest that the offers they make in time of national peril are not to be trusted. The Sykes Picot agreement and the Balfour declaration give an insight into their hedging their bets.
great comment. Even if Churchill was serious and committed to a united Ireland .. it would never have happened .. there were too many moving parts and too many groups within the British Parliamentary system that would have opposed it. The House of Lords for one, The Sovereign for two .. The Cabinet for three .. the Privvy Council for four and most definetly the people of England, Scotlands and Wales would never allow Ireland to have something that none of them had.
All these historians reading their books can't see the wood for the trees .....1916 was a farce a jesuit/commie conspiracy, ROME wanted Ireland and boy Jesus did it get her .
@Owen Sheridan Collins did start the civil war. He broke the Pact made by anti treaty and pro treaty forces, he accepted arms from the British govt and continued the fight against the IRA. Collins even admitted he committed treason and accepted it would mean death for him
@Darragh Bernard Mc Colgan I was born in Iran. I moved to the United States and went to school in the Boston area. In Boston I met many people of Irish origin. They were kind and warm to me. I learned about Irish history and the pain they went through.
@Darragh Bernard Mc Colgan It is true. The British were told their embassy is either on Bobby Sands St. or not welcomed at all :-) Photos are easy to find on the web. In desperation the British changed the entrance to the other side on Ferdowsi St. so they would not have to be reminded about their shameful act of imprisoning Bobby Sands and refusing to free him.
@BossmanFromEnds I hear you but please see their point of view. Northern part of Ireland is an occupied territory by a foreign nation. By International rules the Irish have a right to resist occupation. Therefore it is possible to argue the arrest was illegal. The whole of British presence in Irish soil is illegal. Personally I am a peaceful man. But Mr. Sands was on Irish soil and was only required to answer to Irish authorities. British have no right to impose their law in any part of Ireland. British are just like other foreign national and must respect Irish law while in Ireland.
@BossmanFromEnds I respect your point of view. I was not making the argument. Rather stating the opposing argument. I am not qualified to resolve this matter. My personal experience is limited to working with an engineer there. He was a pleasant man but we never discussed politics. Resolution of the matter requires people more familiar with it and I am not the right person. I would prefer that people involved work it out between themselves.
One thing you learn growing up in the UK mainland is the continued idea that somehow Ireland is a British colony. I always thought that those who think this forget the many who came to the British Mainland of England and the response of how the felt of being conquered by Saxon, Norman, Viking, Roman they lose the point that Ireland was never part of the British mainland for centuries, only stolen by imperialist kings and governments. Ireland is NOT the possession of the UK and neither should the Northern Counties be. I do not agree that killing women and kids be the way Ireland is freed, those murderers should be shot. But Ireland should be one island nation complete and without control of Westminster. Having studied the situation I feel for the people of the Republic and of the North, but I would urge them to put aside their battles and fight - PEACEFULLY - against UK control. all my life I have known of "The Troubles" and all that time i have thought, well no wonder they're pissed if a foreign power marched on Westminster and took over would they be happy? Time to put Ireland back together, those who want to leave come to the UK mainland if you can't live peacefully and get the UK out of Ireland forever. Then the disbandment of the IRA and others, and the resignation of Gerry Adams and others of the Sinn Fienn. The truth of collusion between Irish Republicans and the MI5 and 6. And them maybe just maybe a friendship of free peoples can exist. Put down the gun and pick up the pen.
You talk complete utter rubbish I am Irish I live in Dublin, I truly feel my birthright was stolen from me in 1922. and most if my relatives feel tbe same. And why on Earth do you say it was wrong for the IRA terrorists to meet out horrible deaths by bombing to people they didnt even know.but it would be perfectly all right to shoot them . with that sort of logic it was quite acceptable for the man in Britain who ran amok and killed 22 people over one day, Or was that wrong because he had no political axe to grind.doesn't make sense to me,I don't know what others think Bomb or bullet or knife,you are dead either way
Why should the people of the North leave Ireland they love their homeland but are loyal to Britain as I am but unfortunately have to live in tbe South. My birthright and nationality was stolen from MD in 1916 it wasn't put to a vote.The vast majority would have voted to remain British
Ireland could never manage itself , Its better under EU now but the civil service still doesnt really run much unless its for themselves. If you want a job you dont need to be qualified but you do need connections. If you work in the private sector you keep it on your merit.
The Republic ended in 1922. In 1945 it did not exist. Mr de Valera had overseen the movement of the national structures into ‘Eire’ from the ‘Irish Free State’ of Cosgrave. The 32 County ‘republic’ had to wait for the Fine Gael-led coalition of Costello, in 1948, to see the proverbial light of day.
On the question of the sincerity of the reunification offer. De Valera would just have to look at all the promises to allies the UK broke after WW1 to be very suspicious about whether such a promise would survive the end of the war. Also for a war that formally began over polish indipendence the victorious UK seems to have delivered very little indipendant Poland trough their victory. Overall given the history between the UK and Ireland as well as how recent the war of independence (and thus a surge of suppression from UK officials) had been it was naive for any UK politician to expect official Irish support. Doubly so for Churchill who was a hardliner during the times when Ireland was still under UK controll and regularly argued for even harsher reprisals
Churchill seemed to have a simplistic approach to diplomacy with Ireland. Offering a united Ireland, without really offering it in a way he could deliver. De Valera was right to be suspicious of the offer, even though the consequences of this were the fact that unification was much harder to achieve as a result
Yes. And not only that, but it was more difficult I think for Ireland to take a role on the world stage post war. De Valera blew it not only offering condolences on Hitler's death but actually allowing Nazi criminals safe harbor post war.
I agree. Also keep in mind that Churchill was voted out of office after the war so you would imagine any such promises regarding a United Ireland would have been thrown up in the air.
A nation 'with such close links with Britain'? Ireland was invaded and occupied. They even planted Scottish immigrants in Ulster. It was a disgusting and shameful act. There was also linguistic genocide. It's a very dark and disturbing period of Britain's truly horrid and shameful colonial past.
Devalera set up Michael Collins to bring back the bad news of partition instead of free so he didnt have to and Collins would look like the one who failed
linda blouin Collins was a unionist! He never supported Irish independence! He just wanted devolution, he was part of the pro treaty unionist faction in Sinn Fein.
It's not that simple though. Yes, he had good reasons to keep Ireland neutral, but at the same time, as a consequence of this and how seriously he took the matter of being a neutral (including offering condolences to the German Legation in Ireland on the death of Hitler, which infuriated not only allied nations but also members of his own party) left Ireland isolated diplomatically on the world stage in terms of trying to establish support for a United Ireland and generally seen as irrelevant. History shows that there's few examples of a simple fix
@Marc Brien thing is though, not only was the war pretty much over at that point, so any risk of Ireland being dragged into the war was negligible, but even his own cabinet members were outraged and at a loss to explain why he did it. It became abundantly clear that the Nazis were one of the most brutally belligerent regimes the world has ever seen, even before he went to the German legation. All it succeeded in doing was alienating Ireland on the world stage from the very ones he hoped to pressure Britain into giving up Northern Ireland, the Americans. I'm not saying I agree with him, but it was probably the motivation for Churchill to include his spiteful cheap shot at Devalera and Ireland in his victory speech, 13th May 1945
@@SiVlog1989 maybe he saw something in the man who died, respected something? Ireland was neutral at the time, so it doesn’t seem that strange to me. Considering most of Catholic Europe in 1941 was fascist or some form of right wing government it makes sense to me that Ireland would have more in common with the axis than their historic oppressors in the UK. Maybe De Valera was flipping off the Allies. Maybe it was a statement that he doesn’t see the world the way the Anglo-American sphere does.
@@HorusTortoise that might hold some weight if he had agreed it with his cabinet first, but considering the reaction to it, it was a unilateral action on his part that not only infuriated those he wanted to align Ireland with (like the country of his birth, the USA), but even those in his own party. Given what was already known about the extent of the atrocities the Nazis had committed, the White House had known about the Concentration Camps as early as November 1942, it wasn't a good look for him or Ireland
The real hero's of the 20th.century was neither Dev nor Collins,It was the men and women British and Irish who joined the British armed forces to fight against Germany. They were the brave ones many of whom lost their lives, Sadly it was all futile,Germany despite losing 2 world wars still rules and makes laws for other Europeans to obey all due to the EU
good documentary - thought that given the context was between Dev and Churchill it might have at the very least made a quick reference to the fact that Churchill spent his very young childhood years growing up in Dublin , beside The Phoenix Park no less , the residence for Irish Presidency and beside McKee barracks where he watched in fascination the daily military parading and routines which historians have said actually gave Chruchill his keen interest in Military Life ? Is it not possible it could be argued that if he was sending telegrams to Churchill hours after Peral Harbour suggesting Now or Never A Nation Once Again and a willingness to meet that there was at least the best grounds and leverage for Dev to try persuade and negotiate Churchill at that time for a negotiated united ireland ?? We will never know .Interesting Doc though.
I’m certainly not a de Valera fan but when you think about it he was right not to take Churchill’s offer coz it was pretty vague and felt like an empty promise. Churchill would probably have gone back on his promise after the war relatively easily coz what could de Valera do in that situation? Nothing. Final point: Churchill was well aware that the unionists in NI (ulster) would never accept a United Ireland and would easily go to war over it. They actually armed themselves in 1912 when home rule was becoming a serious possibility. But you have a good point, I guess we’ll never really know
The South was neutral but in name only. Any airmen who bailed out over Eire were usually back in the North the next day. De Valera also gave RAF Coastal Command a vital air corridor through Southern Donegal which saved the airmen hundreds of miles as they no longer had to navigate all the way round the Inishowen peninsula to gain access to the North Atlantic. This gave the Coast Command flying boats extra patrol hours which was vital in keeping German U boats under the surface as opposed to openly trailing the convoys during the long Battle of the Atlantic.
I'm Belgian - been (over)occupied - not in my lifetime of course - just look it up - This is stupid. there was no 'relationship' between De Valera (an American for god's sake again !) and Churchill. Collins had the master peace plan with Churchill - a united free Ireland with connections to Britain (they're neighbours - intermarried, business between them, etc.)- but that's why DEV sent Collins to London so he could deny the deal afterwards. And then get rid of Collins, the real Irish guy with a viewpoint. Only DEV started a seventy long war of terror. Thanks DEV from all humanists.
No problem I couldn't put the book down lots of questions put forward which deserve some consideration all I can say is the British government will release files in the future let's hope they can shed more light on the topic, have a nice new year.
My parents were not keen on De Valera. They both grew up in Ireland and lived there through the war. Dad did leave to go to England for work. He stayed one step ahead of the British army was keen to force his enlistment. Mom taught English to the German POW's who were kept in Ireland. They were free to move about, and posed no risk to the Irish. Very few indeed wished to escape back to the German lines. I grew up in America and Irish history, well its in me blood. Castletown/Bearhaven well that was my dad's home town. Cromwell destroyed us, that left a mark.
An interesting, fast-moving documentary with excellent sound; it is also most fair-minded with comments from leading academics such as biographers Martin Gilbert (Churchill) and Tim Pat Coogan (De Valera).
Historical FACT.. the British Conservative party supported Appeasement ... Even after the Loss of Norway they moved to Make Halifax PM Churchill did NOT have the numbers.. BUT Labors Clement Attlee would not have that.. He combined with the Liberasl & threw out the Conservative Govt ... Leading to a Coalition Govt with Churchill as PM Important details ...
More important than the egos of Churchill or De Valera... were the 70,000 Southern Irishman who fought the NAZIS in WW2 overcoming unforgivable attitudes at home, & shaming the ignorance of many in the British establishment .. Truly the greatest of the Wild Grease ...You are not forgotten 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
De Valera was not even Irish. Not born in Ireland at all. Born in New York city, to an Irish mother and a Spanish father. This became very clear when he was not shot by the British after the 1916 rising, he was not Irish.
@@croisaor2308 Cry harder. The Church basically was our education and healthcare system for generations. The abuses are tiny compared to what it did for us. The State had no money to pay for education or healthcare or anything else during the 20s until the 60s. Until Lemass got our economy moving slightly and we joined the EEC. Ungrateful ass.
How many British airmen were returned when they crashed in Eire...how many fire brigades were sent from Eire to Belfast as it blazed after being bombed by the Germans...how many weather forecasts were sent by Eire which helped the Allies enormously especially when D Day was being planned...
As an American of Irish descent, I've always been haunted by the prospect of ... "what IF??" What IF my ancestors had not been starved out of their homelands?? Who would I be?? What of my children that I have now? Would I be the same man I am now? All these I lay at the feet of the Oppressor .... sleep well, I can't.
It's strange you know because I and all the Irish descended people I know here in England are well adjusted people. You'd think if anybody was entitled to an identity crisis it would be us, but no. Maybe because we are so physically close to Ireland we don't feel cut off and know what the country is like, I.e not a romanticised fairytale land as some Americans seem to imagine it to be (that is my impression anyway.).
@@laurielovett8849Because you lost just about any & all the Irish who had the grit, intellect, & drive to do something, anything to improve their own lot & that of their families. As for the old country ? Sunken into a dreamy, severely impoverished torpor, wracked & ruined by a tyrannical church & a fanatical intolerance. Thank Heavens our ancestors were the ones with the wherewithal to leave that dreadful tip of an island, I say !
Ireland pardons Second World War soldiers who left to fight Nazis. Thousands of Irish soldiers who were punished in their home country for joining British forces to fight the Nazis in the Second World War are finally to receive full recognition. The Irish government is enacting a formal pardon for those who were blacklisted as “deserters” and barred from state employment because of their service during the war after acknowledging that their treatment was “shameful”. It represents a victory for a long campaign on behalf of the surviving soldiers and their families but also marks a milestone in Ireland’s relationship with the UK. An estimated 60,000 men from what was then the Irish Free State - now the Republic of Ireland - served in the British Army, Royal Navy or RAF between 1939 and 1945. They included thousands who had been members of the neutral state’s own defence forces but crossed the border to Northern Ireland or travelled to mainland Britain to join up to serve the allied cause. BETTER LATE THAN NEVER In 2012 Alan Shatter, the Irish justice minister, issued a formal apology to those who had served with the allies and now a bill is being introduced to the Dail finally pardoning them. It is expected to be signed into law by the Irish President Michael D Higgins in the next few days. Mr Shatter said: "The bill is being enacted in recognition of the courage and bravery of those individuals court martialled or dismissed from the Defence Forces who fought on the Allied side to protect decency and democracy during World War Two. "It gives important statutory expression to the apology given by me on behalf of the state last year for the shameful manner in which they were treated." Mr Shatter said the pardon would make an important difference to thousands of families in Ireland and goes some way to right the wrongs of the past. But he added: "Unfortunately, many of the individuals whose situation is addressed in this Bill did not live to see the day that this state finally acknowledged the important role that they played in seeking to ensure a free and safe Europe."
Michael Collins was a great man , however he was an Partitionist , The Unionist never gave one inch of the land they controlled ,not only did they abandon the 6 counties ,they abandoned the nationalist population .
Collins was not a partitionist, he was a smart man. Collins said the Free State deal was a stepping stone to a full Republic. DeValera went to war with him over the treaty. Collins was killed. Then twenty years later DeValera used the Free State as a stepping stone and declared a Republic. The IRA was getting low on ammunition and resources when Collins and the negotiaters took the deal, it's hard to know what might have happened had they not taken the deal. The war was costing Britain money, but even had the IRA been able to force the British to withdraw later, they might not have had the resources to defeat the UVF to keep and hold the North.
C C please I respect Collins as a great man , and I am fully aware if his achievements, however ,Carson lost not an inch of the counties with an Unionist majority. Regards the civil war ,it was Collins who attacked the 4 courts ,Dev was not a leader rin the war of independence, Collins and Mulcahy and O,Duffy were actually right wing as was proven after Collins death ,however the dream of an reunited Ireland lives on .
@@bharneylawless1329 DeValera was President/Prime Minister of the Irish government for the duration of the war of Independence, though he spent most of it looking for support in America while Collins co-ordinated everything back home. So he was a leader during the war of Independence, even if he didn't do much until the end when he returned and against Collins wishes ordered an attack in Dublin that caused a hundred Dublin IRA men to be arrested, who up until that point had been involved in a successful campaign of guerrilla warfare under Collins. DeValera knew that a 32 county Republic was not on the cards in the negotiations, he had already met Lloyd George and been told Republic no, Free State yes. He sent Collins over with the delegation to let them take the blame from the more hardline Republicans. Collins went against his wishes because he was ordered to, his face had been unknown to the British before the negotiations. The Irish public voted for the treaty after DeValera had walked out with his followers without casting a vote against it in Parliament. He did this because he knew that if the Treaty was not ratified the war with Britain was back on. Once the treaty was ratified the anti-Treaty forces decided to make their move. DeValera was recognised as President/PM of Ireland by the anti-Treaty side. He supported them and accepted their recognition of him as their leader, even if he didn't directly pull any trigger himself.
Also when he was leader of the country he tried to airbrush Collins out of history. Many things were censored in the country during these times, usually at the behest of the Church, but that one was personal. In 1939 Collins family wanted to erect a headstone at his grave in Glasnevin cemetery. DeValera took it upon himself to oversee this. He did not allow the Collins family to attend, except for his brother Johnny, and he did not allow any press to attend. As a very old man he would quote, “It is my considered opinion that in the fullness of time history will record the greatness of Michael Collins and it will be recorded at my expense.”
C C Please , Collins was a great man , I have no problem saying .as was Dev in his own way , the people of Ireland voted for him often enough . There are always schisms in revolutionary movements , however ,the nationalists of the 6 north east counties were abandoned.
It is a great pity Michael Collins did not have the oppertunity to complete the work of gaining independance and self governenance for the island of Ireland. He was betrayed by this man devalera and that betrayal has brought misery to Ireland ever sense.
No! Collins & the brits talked over *ni. The brits informed Collins that due to the end of ww1 there were 1 million of the most battle hardened, experienced, advanced soldiers the planet had ever seen were on their way home & they would be really pissed off if they had to go to ireland first.
A terse paragraph in the Irish national dailies on 3 May 1945 started the avalanche of international protest. Under the heading ‘People and Places’, the Fianna Fáil-backed Irish Press reported laconically that the Taoiseach and Minister for External Affairs, Éamon de Valera, accompanied by the Secretary of External Affairs, Joseph Walshe, ‘called on Dr Hempel, the German minister, last evening, to express his condolences’. The condolences were for Hitler who had committed suicide on 30 April. The Irish Times was prevented by the censor from publishing the following report from Reuter on 3 May: ‘Éire delegation mourns Hitler. Lisbon, May 3. The Éireann Minister in Lisbon today hoisted the German swastika at half mast over the legation as a sign of mourning for Hitler’. So much for the RoI being "neutral" during WWII
Many decent Irish men and women died in WWI and WWII fighting Germany. For those in denial: ÉAMON DE Valera was told that by expressing condolences to the German ambassador on the death of Adolf Hitler, he had “shown allegiance to a devil”, newly declassified papers reveal. The files also disclose that it was decided not to fly the Irish flag at half-mast at Áras an Uachtaráin in the Phoenix Park, even though a similar gesture had been made on the death of US president Roosevelt three weeks previously. The Nazi leader shot himself at his bunker in Berlin on April 30th, 1945. Two days later de Valera, who was taoiseach and minister for external affairs, called on ambassador Eduard Hempel to express his condolences. The gesture aroused immediate controversy. The file in the National Archives contains a number of strident letters sent in the immediate aftermath. Angela D Walsh, with an address at East 44th Street, New York, writes to de Valera the day after: “I am horrified, ashamed, humiliated . . . You, who are the head of a Catholic country, have now shown allegiance to a devil.” Shame on De Valera who wasn't even Irish.
You can thank the brave Irish men and women who joined the British armed services and beating the Germans for you having a passport at all. It took bravery to go and fight a real war. 5 years of hard grafting, Dev started a 5 day rebellion, then surrendered,or got a lady to surrender, for him in case he would be shot, what's brave about that? I don't know how you can say that tbe Irish passport is any more precious than any other, A great deal of Europe would disagree with you on that point
@@laurielovett8849 not saying your wrong... But you obviously havnt traveled. The Irish passport has the 2nd highest amount of countries willing to have Irish people visit for 90 days without a visa. Streaks ahead of any other European nation. And I'm not saying it's all Dev I'm saying without him taking this principled approach other more deserving Irishmen and women wouldn't have had their sacrifices have such a intergenerational benefit passed down.
@@laurielovett8849 You are so very wrong you ignorant fool. The brave Irish volunteers fought a legitimate guerilla war of independence against the British crown forces from 1919-1922. As for WW2 Ireland and its people owe Britain nothing!! Not a damn thing.
To this day the Catholic Church and An Roinn Oideachais (Dept of Education and Skills) is they have warped too many Irish children over decades that there is only one enemy: England.
a difficult one De Valera and Collins ..my family were always for Collins but I honestly think if those ports were left in British possession there would have been Hong Kong or even Guantanamo situations in Eire still today..just a thought..
So De valera killed Michael Collins because of the partition (which he knew that would happen) then when offered a united Ireland he didn't take it??? Please tell me I heard that wrong because I hated him as it is
De Valera did not kill Michael Collins. He had no control over the ira during the civil war, nor did he cause the civil war. Liam Lynch who was the main ira leader at the time would have fought no matter what. He didn’t accept the deal Churchill offered him because it wouldn’t have worked. There is no way the unionists in the north would join the republic, especially because De Valera let the Catholic Church had so much power in the state. Also as said In this documentary he wanted to avoid another potential civil war. 6000 people died during the revolutionary period. So what was the point sending thousands more Irishmen to die In a war Ireland had nothing to do with?
A wrong thing to do. Adolf Hitler was a maniac who slaughtered 6 million Jew in concentration camps like Dachau, Auschwitz and Belsen. A new series that claimed that Hitler survived at the end of WW2 is a load of baloney. He shot Eva Braun first and then shot himself dead. Their bodies were burnt and the Russian army actually seized his remains as the leading Nazis botched Hitlers burning.
Dev had his faults not doubt. But metaphorically and literally he stood head and shoulders above today's Irish leaders who ar more subservient to the EU than their predecessors ever were to the UK.
Why what have you done now. Surely you haven't willingly killed or maimed some one if it was an accident,that's not a sin. Just go and in the future go by tbe old saying " do as you would be done by" that covers every thing
Because she stood alone I believe we should have backed them up to the hilt. Presently I don't know how much we backed them. I will do more digging to get to the facts before I give a definitive reply. ☘️✌️
His Majesty’s Kingdom certainly did not stand alone. The British Commonwealth & Empire, from Canada & Newfoundland ( then seperate from the Canadian federation ) to Australia & New Zealand, South Africa to India, Kenya, Rhodesia, and still more,.all stood unreservedly and proudly in clear, unambiguous loyalty to Britain & its fight to the death with Nazism & Fascism. God Save the King.
Éamon de Valera wasn’t he even Irish or British! He was a yank! He was a American, he was from New York but spent a lot of his time in Devon in England where he was banged up in H.M.P Dartmoor.
Two American leaders of European countries, De Valera (born in New York) and Churchill (his mom was American) crashing heads. Man was history of that time so fascinating.
If Churchill's mother makes him an American surly your warped logic says that DeVelera's mother makes him an Irishman, Britain's greatest general who incidentally born in Dublin once said being born in a stable doesn't make me a horse. Arthur Wesley Duke of Wellington
One of the most despicable and cowardly politicians in history. It is ironic that present day so called Republicans refer to Unionists as 'Nazis' when De Velera, as Taoiseach, done everything to help real Nazis. During the war he aided the U-Boat campaign (my own grandfather survived being on ship that was sunk) At the end of the war this was his government's attitude to Hitler's 'Millennium' reign coming to an end. "Douglas Hyde, Ireland's president during the second world war, offered condolences to Germany's representative in Dublin over the death of Adolf Hitler, newly declassified records show. Until now it was believed that Ireland's prime minister, Eamon de Valera, was the only leader to convey official condolences, a gesture criticised worldwide. But the presidential record for 1938-1957, made public this week, sheds new light on one of the most embarrassing chapters in Irish history - its decision to maintain cordial relations with the Nazis even after news of the Holocaust emerged." (Associated Press in Dublin, Sat 31 Dec 2005) He also allowed Ireland to become a safe haven and stopover for German and Croatian war criminals on route to South America. I appreciate that Irish Republicans are at the opposite end of the spectrum from myself but despite this I believe many of them were honest, brave, never sought office for private emolument and maintained their integrity in seeking their ideals. In total contrast we have De Velera, and if you are honest about the aforementioned attributes, he does not meet any of the criteria. After the Free State was established, apart from de facto ensuring superstition, slavery, child abuse and paedophilia was maintained by giving the perpetrators a privileged position in the constitution what real good did he do for his citizens?
Fergal Keane recalls his late father, Eammon, saying that of de Valera was "that man was so crooked, if he swallowed a six inch nail, he'd shit out a corkscrew." Maybe he had a point.
He won elections before the war, during the war, and after the war. The people of Ireland gave thier verdict in real time. Of course some did not agree with him but his electrol record is comparabe with any democratic
@@cahalcostello9295 I was not trying to have a go at the early years and formation of the Republic of Ireland and how the people voting accordingly, my focus was only on De Valera as a person. I believe the way De Valera acted during the signing of the Treaty was abominable. Due to his own ego he done nothing to prevent the onset of a bloody civil war. He was the Unionists greatest ever encouragement for staying in the UK. Others who fought for independence who were far braver and honourable than him were not as bitter as him. This bitter spirit, and his quest to hold on to power through a quasi-theocracy which bred ignorance stalled the new founded Republic's progress decades and entrenched the Unionist position. Thank goodness things have moved on.
Churchill rather ambiguously said to De Valera that after the WW2 he would do 'all in his power' to unite Ireland if he would actively participate as an ally in that conflict . Churchill was out of power within weeks of war's end . So much for that promise . De Valera was possibly right to have kept his own council here . The question is , what would Ireland's post war economy and standing in the world have been if it had joined the conflict on the allies' side? It might well have been less isolationist , more open and progressive . Interesting comparisons could be made with neutral Spain and Portugal also dictatorial and isolationist with disastrous consequences for their economies . As for De Valera's condolence visit to the Nazi Embassy in Dublin , it leaves one aghast and was unpardonable . In retrospect De Valera should have been shot as a 'patriot' in 1916 and have saved us all much grief and economic involution .
No Harrison - son of Harry - you know I'm spot on - the IRA wasn't betrayed by Collins, not by a long shot - he was the leader of the decent IRA (not the later bomb-happy few degenerates) DEV was such an admirer of Hitler he would have gone to his funeral if he could have - Nice guy to have as a 'leader' isn't it ? The British did NOT hate the Irish - how could they, with all the peaceful intermingling going on since hundreds of years - Irish people and families were living in (sans Ireland) Britain as they do today and vice-versa. The Government in London over-reacted but did not kill THAT lot of people, the unforeseen crop failures did most of the thing - to which the Government and bureaucracy reacted very poorly and too late - not the common peoples of the Isles, be it Protestant or Catholics. (As a Catholic -born I know how little and flimsy it means to start fighting a neighbor who has another idea about the SAME religion) DEV got what he wanted - the DENIAL and the RIDDANCE of good people who could pose a threat to him - His personal self-indulgence was the reason the great Irish leader was out of the way. And Collins was the needle in his eye. He got him killed, so no decent peace plan could emerge and POWER would be HIS to take to plunge Ireland in a deep pit for decennia to come. Been to Ireland and talked with a LOT of people - so I know. Bloody DEV.
Dev's major achievement was keeping Ireland out of WWII when he could have easily been drawn in. I don't like what he did to Collins but he was a very intelligent man.
Ireland would have been destroyed in a war that was not theirs to fight. Britain had to enter the war because they didn't want Germany or any large power having such control over Europe.
There have been people as bad as the Nazis. The Germans got the idea from America and their go west expansion into Indian land. The native Americans were pretty much wiped out the Germans planned to go the same but go east. Mao killed more than 70 million but nobody intervened in that either. Look at all the dictatorships in Africa that the west ignores.
He's been a villain since the movie Michael Collins came out and the subject to countless conspiracies see Fletch's comment above, There's a lot he done I don't agree with such as the civil war split, I genuinely can't say either side was wrong in the civil war, both were right. He wiped out half a British battalion in the 16 Rising, He also wrote up our constitution and is the reason we get a referendum whenever the EU push a bill, no other EU nation can do that.
Lol churchill American president referred to him as, that drunken bafoon, as for dev I believe he was a British asset, as Lenin said to control the opposition, you must lead it, the great game
@Claire E - Taking you seriously, I'd have to say, just look into it yourself. In particular the parts about WW2 are full of myth, so start there. Letting the Irish have a "revolution" and "freedom" was all planned and packaged. But by all means don't take my word for it -- go research yourself, sincerely, and with an open mind and heart.and you will find the answers.
Churchill did not declare war on Germany, do you history research and you will see in 1939 it was Neville Chamberlain who declared war on Germany. Not Churchill, he was left with the mess Chamberlain left behind.
@JK - You're having a bit of work to do correcting the historical ignorance of these paddies mouthing off about things they have very little knowledge of here.
Do the math... it's not rocket science de Valera may not have picked Collins intentionally to go but that coward made damn sure that someone else was going to go just as long as it wasn't him....
How dovyiu know, I take it you are English after leaving dev for her parents to look after Devs mother married a British Soldier with whom she had 7 children Never heard if Dev being in touch with his mother or siblings would be interested to find out how you found out you were related to him
Oh please. In the last census atheism is growing faster than any religion is Ireland. There are almost as many Orthodox Christians in Ireland their are Muslims and there are twice as many Protestants in Catholic Ireland as there are Muslims.
Traolach O'Breasaill . Check out Irish History and you will know that the Othoman Turks , ( Muslims ) donated food to Ireland and Queen Victoria did not like it . So away with your sick and vicious Hatred . The Irish are all over the world , living peacefully with others .
benevolentnick1 whether Ireland likes it or not mass Islamic immigration is coming to Ireland as it has in the uk. God luck ireland. Dark times lie ahead.
Not necessarily DeVelera was the only one of the leaders not executed and after the files of the interviews with the men that were executed were finally released a few years ago, DeVelera's was the only one missing there is something very fishy about the whole situation given his history of being a pure treacherous snake it would'nt suprise me if his was only the British payroll either that or bought his life with information.
@@solidus784 de valera escaped execution because he was an American citizen. There was another who was replied also-constance markewicz. If de valera was a British agent why did he opposed the treaty Britain wanted, negotiate away obligations of treaty ports and remain neutral against British wishes? Some agent...
I never thought I would say that, but Eamon De Valera was right. To stay neutral in WWII was the right decision for Ireland. The Americans were fans of the Third Reich until they were attacked by its most powerful ally and the Nazis declared war against the USA. The US remained neutral for as long as they weren't the target of aggression themselves and they gave a f*** about how many people had died untill a harbor of theirs, on an island they had annex not too long ago, was attacked. That's not my definition of courage.
And even taking into account that Eamon De Valera was responsible for the murder of Michael Collins he was still a way better man than Churchill. Churchill was responsible for war crimes, crimes against international law and crimes against humanity, and actively took part in them, from Kabul to Athens, from South Africa to Burma.
In many ways the British brought it on themselves that the Irish were more inclined to believe that the British would abuse any opportunity to frame the situation as a pretext to justify a new invasion of Ireland than to fear aggression from any other angle.
The US had already declared war on Germany and Italy on 11 September 1941.
@GazB85 Roosevelt gave the shoot on sight order in early September 1941.
@@markharrison2544 Are you not maybe a little confused there? The USA didn’t enter World War II -, Sorry “The Emergency”, until Peal Harber was attacked on “December 7th 1941, a date that will live in infamy"?
@@clairee4939 The US declared war on Germany and Italy when Roosevelt gave the shoot on sight order in early September 1941.
@@markharrison2544 Nope. Where are you from and what makes you believe that? :D
Maybe the nation Churchill was offering was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland? You would never know.
Surely an examination of British diplomacy in the middle East would suggest that the offers they make in time of national peril are not to be trusted. The Sykes Picot agreement and the Balfour declaration give an insight into their hedging their bets.
great comment. Even if Churchill was serious and committed to a united Ireland .. it would never have happened .. there were too many moving parts and too many groups within the British Parliamentary system that would have opposed it. The House of Lords for one, The Sovereign for two .. The Cabinet for three .. the Privvy Council for four and most definetly the people of England, Scotlands and Wales would never allow Ireland to have something that none of them had.
Michael Collins is the greatest Irishman of all time
All these historians reading their books can't see the wood for the trees .....1916 was a farce a jesuit/commie conspiracy, ROME wanted Ireland and boy Jesus did it get her .
eslermanu47
Edward Carson is the greatest Irishman that ever lived.
eslermanu47
Edward Carson Was The Greatest Irishman Of all time.
@Owen Sheridan Collins did start the civil war. He broke the Pact made by anti treaty and pro treaty forces, he accepted arms from the British govt and continued the fight against the IRA. Collins even admitted he committed treason and accepted it would mean death for him
Collins betrayed Ireland by signing the Anglo-Irish Treaty.
Churchill's offer of Irish unity was carrot-and-stick: Join us in the war and I'll give you Northern Ireland. Dev was right to reject it.
Churchill on about looking after their allies what about Poland he was so full of shit..
The Irish are a wonderful people and have a right for peaceful rights to freedom. I do love the Irish and their rights.
@Darragh Bernard Mc Colgan I am telling the truth sir. And you are very much welcomed. 26 + 6 = 1.
@Darragh Bernard Mc Colgan I was born in Iran. I moved to the United States and went to school in the Boston area. In Boston I met many people of Irish origin. They were kind and warm to me. I learned about Irish history and the pain they went through.
@Darragh Bernard Mc Colgan It is true. The British were told their embassy is either on Bobby Sands St. or not welcomed at all :-) Photos are easy to find on the web. In desperation the British changed the entrance to the other side on Ferdowsi St. so they would not have to be reminded about their shameful act of imprisoning Bobby Sands and refusing to free him.
@BossmanFromEnds I hear you but please see their point of view. Northern part of Ireland is an occupied territory by a foreign nation. By International rules the Irish have a right to resist occupation. Therefore it is possible to argue the arrest was illegal. The whole of British presence in Irish soil is illegal. Personally I am a peaceful man. But Mr. Sands was on Irish soil and was only required to answer to Irish authorities. British have no right to impose their law in any part of Ireland. British are just like other foreign national and must respect Irish law while in Ireland.
@BossmanFromEnds I respect your point of view. I was not making the argument. Rather stating the opposing argument. I am not qualified to resolve this matter. My personal experience is limited to working with an engineer there. He was a pleasant man but we never discussed politics. Resolution of the matter requires people more familiar with it and I am not the right person.
I would prefer that people involved work it out between themselves.
One thing you learn growing up in the UK mainland is the continued idea that somehow Ireland is a British colony. I always thought that those who think this forget the many who came to the British Mainland of England and the response of how the felt of being conquered by Saxon, Norman, Viking, Roman they lose the point that Ireland was never part of the British mainland for centuries, only stolen by imperialist kings and governments. Ireland is NOT the possession of the UK and neither should the Northern Counties be.
I do not agree that killing women and kids be the way Ireland is freed, those murderers should be shot. But Ireland should be one island nation complete and without control of Westminster. Having studied the situation I feel for the people of the Republic and of the North, but I would urge them to put aside their battles and fight - PEACEFULLY - against UK control. all my life I have known of "The Troubles" and all that time i have thought, well no wonder they're pissed if a foreign power marched on Westminster and took over would they be happy? Time to put Ireland back together, those who want to leave come to the UK mainland if you can't live peacefully and get the UK out of Ireland forever. Then the disbandment of the IRA and others, and the resignation of Gerry Adams and others of the Sinn Fienn. The truth of collusion between Irish Republicans and the MI5 and 6. And them maybe just maybe a friendship of free peoples can exist. Put down the gun and pick up the pen.
You talk complete utter rubbish I am Irish I live in Dublin, I truly feel my birthright was stolen from me in 1922. and most if my relatives feel tbe same. And why on Earth do you say it was wrong for the IRA terrorists to meet out horrible deaths by bombing to people they didnt even know.but it would be perfectly all right to shoot them . with that sort of logic it was quite acceptable for the man in Britain who ran amok and killed 22 people over one day, Or was that wrong because he had no political axe to grind.doesn't make sense to me,I don't know what others think Bomb or bullet or knife,you are dead either way
Why should the people of the North leave Ireland they love their homeland but are loyal to Britain as I am but unfortunately have to live in tbe South. My birthright and nationality was stolen from MD in 1916 it wasn't put to a vote.The vast majority would have voted to remain British
Did it ever strike you that the people who live in tbe North don't want the British out of Ireland.were veryhspoy as we are.
Ireland could never manage itself , Its better under EU now but the civil service still doesnt really run much unless its for themselves. If you want a job you dont need to be qualified but you do need connections. If you work in the private sector you keep it on your merit.
I'm British and I don't think I know anyone who doesn't think Ireland is an independent country.
Then again I live in Liverpool!
Knowing Churchill, he probably meant he was prepared to let the republic back into the uk if his conditions were met.
That would have been anathema to the Irish.
I doubt that very much...
The Republic ended in 1922. In 1945 it did not exist. Mr de Valera had overseen the movement of the national structures into ‘Eire’ from the ‘Irish Free State’ of Cosgrave. The 32 County ‘republic’ had to wait for the Fine Gael-led coalition of Costello, in 1948, to see the proverbial light of day.
On the question of the sincerity of the reunification offer. De Valera would just have to look at all the promises to allies the UK broke after WW1 to be very suspicious about whether such a promise would survive the end of the war.
Also for a war that formally began over polish indipendence the victorious UK seems to have delivered very little indipendant Poland trough their victory.
Overall given the history between the UK and Ireland as well as how recent the war of independence (and thus a surge of suppression from UK officials) had been it was naive for any UK politician to expect official Irish support. Doubly so for Churchill who was a hardliner during the times when Ireland was still under UK controll and regularly argued for even harsher reprisals
Maisie5b
Churchill seemed to have a simplistic approach to diplomacy with Ireland. Offering a united Ireland, without really offering it in a way he could deliver. De Valera was right to be suspicious of the offer, even though the consequences of this were the fact that unification was much harder to achieve as a result
Yes. And not only that, but it was more difficult I think for Ireland to take a role on the world stage post war. De Valera blew it not only offering condolences on Hitler's death but actually allowing Nazi criminals safe harbor post war.
I agree. Also keep in mind that Churchill was voted out of office after the war so you would imagine any such promises regarding a United Ireland would have been thrown up in the air.
Rangers Ready Is that William Shakespeare speaking to us from the grave with such an elegant grasp of the English language?
Rangers Ready S..t h.. D
Go watch ur loosing ranger team u silly un educated fool 😡
Churchill was voted out before the war ended.
A nation 'with such close links with Britain'? Ireland was invaded and occupied. They even planted Scottish immigrants in Ulster. It was a disgusting and shameful act. There was also linguistic genocide. It's a very dark and disturbing period of Britain's truly horrid and shameful colonial past.
Devalera set up Michael Collins to bring back the bad news of partition instead of free so he didnt have to and Collins would look like the one who failed
linda blouin
Collins was a unionist! He never supported Irish independence! He just wanted devolution, he was part of the pro treaty unionist faction in Sinn Fein.
Protestant Boy 1872 Your name says it all
Protestant Boy 1872 No that was John Redmond stop confusing Irish Republicanism with Nationalism.
Owen Sheridan Ulster Scot they lack any knowledge of Irish history even about their Republican ancestors in the United Irishmen.
@@ProtestantBoy I'm sorry but how dumb are you?
One of the only decent things Dev ever did for Ireland. Joining the war would've been a disaster for Ireland and would have had no true merit.
Please learn some of Ireland's history before making such a broad sweeping statement.
It's not that simple though. Yes, he had good reasons to keep Ireland neutral, but at the same time, as a consequence of this and how seriously he took the matter of being a neutral (including offering condolences to the German Legation in Ireland on the death of Hitler, which infuriated not only allied nations but also members of his own party) left Ireland isolated diplomatically on the world stage in terms of trying to establish support for a United Ireland and generally seen as irrelevant. History shows that there's few examples of a simple fix
@Marc Brien thing is though, not only was the war pretty much over at that point, so any risk of Ireland being dragged into the war was negligible, but even his own cabinet members were outraged and at a loss to explain why he did it. It became abundantly clear that the Nazis were one of the most brutally belligerent regimes the world has ever seen, even before he went to the German legation. All it succeeded in doing was alienating Ireland on the world stage from the very ones he hoped to pressure Britain into giving up Northern Ireland, the Americans. I'm not saying I agree with him, but it was probably the motivation for Churchill to include his spiteful cheap shot at Devalera and Ireland in his victory speech, 13th May 1945
@@SiVlog1989 maybe he saw something in the man who died, respected something? Ireland was neutral at the time, so it doesn’t seem that strange to me. Considering most of Catholic Europe in 1941 was fascist or some form of right wing government it makes sense to me that Ireland would have more in common with the axis than their historic oppressors in the UK. Maybe De Valera was flipping off the Allies. Maybe it was a statement that he doesn’t see the world the way the Anglo-American sphere does.
@@HorusTortoise that might hold some weight if he had agreed it with his cabinet first, but considering the reaction to it, it was a unilateral action on his part that not only infuriated those he wanted to align Ireland with (like the country of his birth, the USA), but even those in his own party. Given what was already known about the extent of the atrocities the Nazis had committed, the White House had known about the Concentration Camps as early as November 1942, it wasn't a good look for him or Ireland
Very good doucumenry but it leaves out so much a lot of Irish people also fought to support the alliance its just not as well known.
The real hero's of the 20th.century was neither Dev nor Collins,It was the men and women British and Irish who joined the British armed forces to fight against Germany. They were the brave ones many of whom lost their lives, Sadly it was all futile,Germany despite losing 2 world wars still rules and makes laws for other Europeans to obey all due to the EU
@@laurielovett8849 What a crock of shit. Tye heroes of Ireland fought for her freedom.
Your right wing rhetoric is appalling.
Ĺ
good documentary - thought that given the context was between Dev and Churchill it might have at the very least made a quick reference to the fact that Churchill spent his very young childhood years growing up in Dublin , beside The Phoenix Park no less , the residence for Irish Presidency and beside McKee barracks where he watched in fascination the daily military parading and routines which historians have said actually gave Chruchill his keen interest in Military Life ? Is it not possible it could be argued that if he was sending telegrams to Churchill hours after Peral Harbour suggesting Now or Never A Nation Once Again and a willingness to meet that there was at least the best grounds and leverage for Dev to try persuade and negotiate Churchill at that time for a negotiated united ireland ?? We will never know .Interesting Doc though.
I’m certainly not a de Valera fan but when you think about it he was right not to take Churchill’s offer coz it was pretty vague and felt like an empty promise. Churchill would probably have gone back on his promise after the war relatively easily coz what could de Valera do in that situation? Nothing. Final point: Churchill was well aware that the unionists in NI (ulster) would never accept a United Ireland and would easily go to war over it. They actually armed themselves in 1912 when home rule was becoming a serious possibility. But you have a good point, I guess we’ll never really know
The South was neutral but in name only. Any airmen who bailed out over Eire were usually back in the North the next day. De Valera also gave RAF Coastal Command a vital air corridor through Southern Donegal which saved the airmen hundreds of miles as they no longer had to navigate all the way round the Inishowen peninsula to gain access to the North Atlantic. This gave the Coast Command flying boats extra patrol hours which was vital in keeping German U boats under the surface as opposed to openly trailing the convoys during the long Battle of the Atlantic.
They collaborated with the nazis.
Eire had no choice. Neutrals are never respected by belligerent states like Britain.
I'm Belgian - been (over)occupied - not in my lifetime of course - just look it up - This is stupid. there was no 'relationship' between De Valera (an American for god's sake again !) and Churchill. Collins had the master peace plan with Churchill - a united free Ireland with connections to Britain (they're neighbours - intermarried, business between them, etc.)- but that's why DEV sent Collins to London so he could deny the deal afterwards. And then get rid of Collins, the real Irish guy with a viewpoint. Only DEV started a seventy long war of terror. Thanks DEV from all humanists.
It was Collins why betrayed the IRA.
@@markharrison2544 Why what
Your an idiot and is Belgium even a country or it just little Holland
No problem I couldn't put the book down lots of questions put forward which deserve some consideration all I can say is the British government will release files in the future let's hope they can shed more light on the topic, have a nice new year.
My parents were not keen on De Valera. They both grew up in Ireland and lived there through the war. Dad did leave to go to England for work. He stayed one step ahead of the British army was keen to force his enlistment. Mom taught English to the German POW's who were kept in Ireland. They were free to move about, and posed no risk to the Irish. Very few indeed wished to escape back to the German lines. I grew up in America and Irish history, well its in me blood. Castletown/Bearhaven well that was my dad's home town. Cromwell destroyed us, that left a mark.
He was a nazi collaborator.
You father left for work so did I. If he was a Dev man he would have a few strokes pulled maybe. Fine Fail were all experts at that.
An interesting, fast-moving documentary with excellent sound; it is also most fair-minded with comments from leading academics such as biographers Martin Gilbert (Churchill) and Tim Pat Coogan (De Valera).
Coogan's hardly an academic. He's just a journalist with a sour Republican POV and a lot of contacts, everywhere.
All the same I like him.
Historical FACT.. the British Conservative party supported Appeasement ... Even after the Loss of Norway they moved to Make Halifax PM
Churchill did NOT have the numbers.. BUT Labors Clement Attlee would not have that.. He combined with the Liberasl & threw out the Conservative Govt ... Leading to a Coalition Govt with Churchill as PM
Important details ...
More important than the egos of Churchill or De Valera... were the 70,000 Southern Irishman who fought the NAZIS in WW2 overcoming unforgivable attitudes at home, & shaming the ignorance of many in the British establishment ..
Truly the greatest of the Wild Grease ...You are not forgotten 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
De Valera was not even Irish. Not born in Ireland at all. Born in New York city, to an Irish mother and a Spanish father. This became very clear when he was not shot by the British after the 1916 rising, he was not Irish.
Still not Irish though?
John King Duke of Wellington was not English born in Ireland still considered himself English.
@@RobertK1993 duke of wellington was an anglo irish
Anurag Poddar Yeah what about Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone.
John King DeValeras father was not a Spaniard he was Cuban,
Michael Collins *Ireland's greatest*
Yes, but Dev did a lot of good for Ireland
'Dev' was the Pope's lackey in Vatican occupied Ireland.
eh, you must hate Collins then, he was even more religious.
@Louis Cypher On the contrary, I'm proud to be Catholic and ashamed to be Irish.
Don't forget dev was in charge when all the UN married mothers wear sent to work houses and babies died or wear sent to USA for money
Dev sold the country to the church. Took us from one master and put gave us to another. The church were worse than the Brits in some ways.
@@croisaor2308 Cry harder. The Church basically was our education and healthcare system for generations. The abuses are tiny compared to what it did for us. The State had no money to pay for education or healthcare or anything else during the 20s until the 60s. Until Lemass got our economy moving slightly and we joined the EEC. Ungrateful ass.
Excellent Documentary. Thanks for posting!
De Valera did not get the North and Churchill did not get to keep Empire , so a draw !
How many individual Nazis were found sanctuary and refuge to live in Eire after WWII?
How many British airmen were returned when they crashed in Eire...how many fire brigades were sent from Eire to Belfast as it blazed after being bombed by the Germans...how many weather forecasts were sent by Eire which helped the Allies enormously especially when D Day was being planned...
OK I will bite.....exactly how many
As an American of Irish descent, I've always been haunted by the prospect of ... "what IF??" What IF my ancestors had not been starved out of their homelands?? Who would I be?? What of my children that I have now? Would I be the same man I am now? All these I lay at the feet of the Oppressor .... sleep well, I can't.
It's strange you know because I and all the Irish descended people I know here in England are well adjusted people. You'd think if anybody was entitled to an identity crisis it would be us, but no. Maybe because we are so physically close to Ireland we don't feel cut off and know what the country is like, I.e not a romanticised fairytale land as some Americans seem to imagine it to be (that is my impression anyway.).
Get over it. Thousands stayed here your antecedents choose to emigrate,so what
@@laurielovett8849Because you lost just about any & all the Irish who had the grit, intellect, & drive to do something, anything to improve their own lot & that of their families. As for the old country ? Sunken into a dreamy, severely impoverished torpor, wracked & ruined by a tyrannical church & a fanatical intolerance. Thank Heavens our ancestors were the ones with the wherewithal to leave that dreadful tip of an island, I say !
I am not sure if neutrality was such a great idea during the Holocaust/World War II/Nazism. Dev's Father was from Cordoba not Cuba
Ireland pardons Second World War soldiers who left to fight Nazis. Thousands of Irish soldiers who were punished in their home country for joining British forces to fight the Nazis in the Second World War are finally to receive full recognition.
The Irish government is enacting a formal pardon for those who were blacklisted as “deserters” and barred from state employment because of their service during the war after acknowledging that their treatment was “shameful”.
It represents a victory for a long campaign on behalf of the surviving soldiers and their families but also marks a milestone in Ireland’s relationship with the UK.
An estimated 60,000 men from what was then the Irish Free State - now the Republic of Ireland - served in the British Army, Royal Navy or RAF between 1939 and 1945.
They included thousands who had been members of the neutral state’s own defence forces but crossed the border to Northern Ireland or travelled to mainland Britain to join up to serve the allied cause.
BETTER LATE THAN NEVER
In 2012 Alan Shatter, the Irish justice minister, issued a formal apology to those who had served with the allies and now a bill is being introduced to the Dail finally pardoning them.
It is expected to be signed into law by the Irish President Michael D Higgins in the next few days.
Mr Shatter said: "The bill is being enacted in recognition of the courage and bravery of those individuals court martialled or dismissed from the Defence Forces who fought on the Allied side to protect decency and democracy during World War Two.
"It gives important statutory expression to the apology given by me on behalf of the state last year for the shameful manner in which they were treated."
Mr Shatter said the pardon would make an important difference to thousands of families in Ireland and goes some way to right the wrongs of the past.
But he added: "Unfortunately, many of the individuals whose situation is addressed in this Bill did not live to see the day that this state finally acknowledged the important role that they played in seeking to ensure a free and safe Europe."
Did Churchill really walk alongside De gaule through Paris?
Michael Collins was a great man , however he was an Partitionist , The Unionist never gave one inch of the land they controlled ,not only did they abandon the 6 counties ,they abandoned the nationalist population .
Collins was not a partitionist, he was a smart man. Collins said the Free State deal was a stepping stone to a full Republic. DeValera went to war with him over the treaty. Collins was killed. Then twenty years later DeValera used the Free State as a stepping stone and declared a Republic.
The IRA was getting low on ammunition and resources when Collins and the negotiaters took the deal, it's hard to know what might have happened had they not taken the deal. The war was costing Britain money, but even had the IRA been able to force the British to withdraw later, they might not have had the resources to defeat the UVF to keep and hold the North.
C C please I respect Collins as a great man , and I am fully aware if his achievements, however ,Carson lost not an inch of the counties with an Unionist majority. Regards the civil war ,it was Collins who attacked the 4 courts ,Dev was not a leader rin the war of independence, Collins and Mulcahy and O,Duffy were actually right wing as was proven after Collins death ,however the dream of an reunited Ireland lives on .
@@bharneylawless1329 DeValera was President/Prime Minister of the Irish government for the duration of the war of Independence, though he spent most of it looking for support in America while Collins co-ordinated everything back home. So he was a leader during the war of Independence, even if he didn't do much until the end when he returned and against Collins wishes ordered an attack in Dublin that caused a hundred Dublin IRA men to be arrested, who up until that point had been involved in a successful campaign of guerrilla warfare under Collins.
DeValera knew that a 32 county Republic was not on the cards in the negotiations, he had already met Lloyd George and been told Republic no, Free State yes. He sent Collins over with the delegation to let them take the blame from the more hardline Republicans. Collins went against his wishes because he was ordered to, his face had been unknown to the British before the negotiations.
The Irish public voted for the treaty after DeValera had walked out with his followers without casting a vote against it in Parliament. He did this because he knew that if the Treaty was not ratified the war with Britain was back on.
Once the treaty was ratified the anti-Treaty forces decided to make their move.
DeValera was recognised as President/PM of Ireland by the anti-Treaty side. He supported them and accepted their recognition of him as their leader, even if he didn't directly pull any trigger himself.
Also when he was leader of the country he tried to airbrush Collins out of history. Many things were censored in the country during these times, usually at the behest of the Church, but that one was personal.
In 1939 Collins family wanted to erect a headstone at his grave in Glasnevin cemetery. DeValera took it upon himself to oversee this. He did not allow the Collins family to attend, except for his brother Johnny, and he did not allow any press to attend.
As a very old man he would quote, “It is my considered opinion that in the fullness of time history will record the greatness of Michael Collins and it will be recorded at my expense.”
C C Please , Collins was a great man , I have no problem saying .as was Dev in his own way , the people of Ireland voted for him often enough . There are always schisms in revolutionary movements , however ,the nationalists of the 6 north east counties were abandoned.
who is this person?
DAVY-D-TV england
RTE HAVE BEEN MAGNIFICENT IN RESTORING THESE MOMENTS. BLESS THEM.
It is a great pity Michael Collins did not have the oppertunity to complete the work of gaining independance and self governenance for the island of Ireland. He was betrayed by this man devalera and that betrayal has brought misery to Ireland ever sense.
No!
Collins & the brits talked over *ni.
The brits informed Collins that due to the end of ww1 there were 1 million of the most battle hardened, experienced, advanced soldiers the planet had ever seen were on their way home & they would be really pissed off if they had to go to ireland first.
Collins the traitor of the Republic.
A terse paragraph in the Irish national dailies on 3 May 1945 started the avalanche of international protest. Under the heading ‘People and Places’, the Fianna Fáil-backed Irish Press reported laconically that the Taoiseach and Minister for External Affairs, Éamon de Valera, accompanied by the Secretary of External Affairs, Joseph Walshe, ‘called on Dr Hempel, the German minister, last evening, to express his condolences’. The condolences were for Hitler who had committed suicide on 30 April. The Irish Times was prevented by the censor from publishing the following report from Reuter on 3 May: ‘Éire delegation mourns Hitler. Lisbon, May 3. The Éireann Minister in Lisbon today hoisted the German swastika at half mast over the legation as a sign of mourning for Hitler’.
So much for the RoI being "neutral" during WWII
Reading again one of my wonderful writers 'C.J. Sansom' DOMINION. Amazing book.
Impossible to watch about half dozen adds before it starts thumbs down ...
Many decent Irish men and women died in WWI and WWII fighting Germany. For those in denial:
ÉAMON DE Valera was told that by expressing condolences to the German ambassador on the death of Adolf Hitler, he had “shown allegiance to a devil”, newly declassified papers reveal.
The files also disclose that it was decided not to fly the Irish flag at half-mast at Áras an Uachtaráin in the Phoenix Park, even though a similar gesture had been made on the death of US president Roosevelt three weeks previously.
The Nazi leader shot himself at his bunker in Berlin on April 30th, 1945. Two days later de Valera, who was taoiseach and minister for external affairs, called on ambassador Eduard Hempel to express his condolences.
The gesture aroused immediate controversy. The file in the National Archives contains a number of strident letters sent in the immediate aftermath. Angela D Walsh, with an address at East 44th Street, New York, writes to de Valera the day after: “I am horrified, ashamed, humiliated . . . You, who are the head of a Catholic country, have now shown allegiance to a devil.”
Shame on De Valera who wasn't even Irish.
De Valera expressing sorrow over the death of Hitler as the world was waking up to the obscenity of Bergen Belsen. Nothing can excuse this.
Ireland had seeked a partnership with the germans for over s 100 years as the germans were the only ones who could match england.
It was strange behavior
believe you can thank deValera for making the Irish passport the 2nd best one in the world to travel on.
You can thank the brave Irish men and women who joined the British armed services and beating the Germans for you having a passport at all. It took bravery to go and fight a real war. 5 years of hard grafting, Dev started a 5 day rebellion, then surrendered,or got a lady to surrender, for him in case he would be shot, what's brave about that? I don't know how you can say that tbe Irish passport is any more precious than any other, A great deal of Europe would disagree with you on that point
@@laurielovett8849 not saying your wrong... But you obviously havnt traveled. The Irish passport has the 2nd highest amount of countries willing to have Irish people visit for 90 days without a visa. Streaks ahead of any other European nation. And I'm not saying it's all Dev I'm saying without him taking this principled approach other more deserving Irishmen and women wouldn't have had their sacrifices have such a intergenerational benefit passed down.
@@laurielovett8849 You're fractally wrong.
@@laurielovett8849 You are so very wrong you ignorant fool. The brave Irish volunteers fought a legitimate guerilla war of independence against the British crown forces from 1919-1922. As for WW2 Ireland and its people owe Britain nothing!! Not a damn thing.
@@jpgduff No he isn't. Devil Era even had had Collins murdered.
To this day the Catholic Church and An Roinn Oideachais (Dept of Education and Skills) is they have warped too many Irish children over decades that there is only one enemy: England.
a difficult one De Valera and Collins ..my family were always for Collins but I honestly think if those ports were left in British possession there would have been Hong Kong or even Guantanamo situations in Eire still today..just a thought..
Hong Kong was returned to China.
eventually yes...@@markharrison2544
@@anthonybowers7571 It did not have to be because only the New Territories were leased.
So
De valera killed Michael Collins because of the partition (which he knew that would happen) then when offered a united Ireland he didn't take it???
Please tell me I heard that wrong because I hated him as it is
De Valera was a snake in the grass.
De Valera did not kill Michael Collins. He had no control over the ira during the civil war, nor did he cause the civil war. Liam Lynch who was the main ira leader at the time would have fought no matter what. He didn’t accept the deal Churchill offered him because it wouldn’t have worked. There is no way the unionists in the north would join the republic, especially because De Valera let the Catholic Church had so much power in the state. Also as said In this documentary he wanted to avoid another potential civil war. 6000 people died during the revolutionary period. So what was the point sending thousands more Irishmen to die In a war Ireland had nothing to do with?
De Valera visited the German ambassador to offer his condolences on the death of Adolf Hitler
A wrong thing to do. Adolf Hitler was a maniac who slaughtered 6 million Jew in concentration camps like Dachau, Auschwitz and Belsen. A new series that claimed that Hitler survived at the end of WW2 is a load of baloney. He shot Eva Braun first and then shot himself dead. Their bodies were burnt and the Russian army actually seized his remains as the leading Nazis botched Hitlers burning.
Dev had his faults not doubt. But metaphorically and literally he stood head and shoulders above today's Irish leaders who ar more subservient to the EU than their predecessors ever were to the UK.
fascinating. thank you.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner...
Why what have you done now. Surely you haven't willingly killed or maimed some one if it was an accident,that's not a sin. Just go and in the future go by tbe old saying " do as you would be done by" that covers every thing
Amen !!!
Dev was one of Ireland's greatest leaders
Because she stood alone I believe we should have backed them up to the hilt. Presently I don't know how much we backed them. I will do more digging to get to the facts before I give a definitive reply. ☘️✌️
His Majesty’s Kingdom certainly did not stand alone. The British Commonwealth & Empire, from Canada & Newfoundland ( then seperate from the Canadian federation ) to Australia & New Zealand, South Africa to India, Kenya, Rhodesia, and still more,.all stood unreservedly and proudly in clear, unambiguous loyalty to Britain & its fight to the death with Nazism & Fascism. God Save the King.
He is inspiration to Indian leader Netaji Subash Chandra Bose
Éamon de Valera wasn’t he even Irish or British! He was a yank! He was a American, he was from New York but spent a lot of his time in Devon in England where he was banged up in H.M.P Dartmoor.
Widescreen Studio
He’s a yank! He’s from New York!
@Jason Todd Not real Irish.
Devon is lovely in the summer.
"He was a yank! He was a American, he was from New York "
Where did you say he was from again? :-D
Jason Todd Protestant boy along with all Ulster Loyalists are Irish even if they don't want to be.
Two American leaders of European countries, De Valera (born in New York) and Churchill (his mom was American) crashing heads. Man was history of that time so fascinating.
Neither were Americans both are illegal immigrants deport British and Irish from the USA.
If Churchill's mother makes him an American surly your warped logic says that DeVelera's mother makes him an Irishman, Britain's greatest general who incidentally born in Dublin once said being born in a stable doesn't make me a horse.
Arthur Wesley Duke of Wellington
One of the most despicable and cowardly politicians in history. It is ironic that present day so called Republicans refer to Unionists as 'Nazis' when De Velera, as Taoiseach, done everything to help real Nazis.
During the war he aided the U-Boat campaign (my own grandfather survived being on ship that was sunk)
At the end of the war this was his government's attitude to Hitler's 'Millennium' reign coming to an end.
"Douglas Hyde, Ireland's president during the second world war, offered condolences to Germany's representative in Dublin over the death of Adolf Hitler, newly declassified records show.
Until now it was believed that Ireland's prime minister, Eamon de Valera, was the only leader to convey official condolences, a gesture criticised worldwide.
But the presidential record for 1938-1957, made public this week, sheds new light on one of the most embarrassing chapters in Irish history - its decision to maintain cordial relations with the Nazis even after news of the Holocaust emerged." (Associated Press in Dublin, Sat 31 Dec 2005)
He also allowed Ireland to become a safe haven and stopover for German and Croatian war criminals on route to South America.
I appreciate that Irish Republicans are at the opposite end of the spectrum from myself but despite this I believe many of them were honest, brave, never sought office for private emolument and maintained their integrity in seeking their ideals. In total contrast we have De Velera, and if you are honest about the aforementioned attributes, he does not meet any of the criteria.
After the Free State was established, apart from de facto ensuring superstition, slavery, child abuse and paedophilia was maintained by giving the perpetrators a privileged position in the constitution what real good did he do for his citizens?
Fergal Keane recalls his late father, Eammon, saying that of de Valera was "that man was so crooked, if he swallowed a six inch nail, he'd shit out a corkscrew."
Maybe he had a point.
Duke Schomberg Loyalists and Unionist were just as bad especially Loyalists.
I wish you were wrong but you are not
He won elections before the war, during the war, and after the war.
The people of Ireland gave thier verdict in real time. Of course some did not agree with him but his electrol record is comparabe with any democratic
@@cahalcostello9295 I was not trying to have a go at the early years and formation of the Republic of Ireland and how the people voting accordingly, my focus was only on De Valera as a person.
I believe the way De Valera acted during the signing of the Treaty was abominable. Due to his own ego he done nothing to prevent the onset of a bloody civil war.
He was the Unionists greatest ever encouragement for staying in the UK.
Others who fought for independence who were far braver and honourable than him were not as bitter as him. This bitter spirit, and his quest to hold on to power through a quasi-theocracy which bred ignorance stalled the new founded Republic's progress decades and entrenched the Unionist position.
Thank goodness things have moved on.
Brendan Bracken?
Did Dev like Hitler or agree with the Halocaust?
He did send his the German People his condolences after his death.
Thank you !!
Oh btw Dev was my 5th outlaw on his Mother Kate Coll's side through my Birth Maternal Grandmother Bridget Coll.
Churchill rather ambiguously said to De Valera that after the WW2 he would do 'all in his power' to unite Ireland if he would actively participate as an ally in that conflict . Churchill was out of power within weeks of war's end . So much for that promise . De Valera was possibly right to have kept his own council here . The question is , what would Ireland's post war economy and standing in the world have been if it had joined the conflict on the allies' side? It might well have been less isolationist , more open and progressive . Interesting comparisons could be made with neutral Spain and Portugal also dictatorial and isolationist with disastrous consequences for their economies . As for De Valera's condolence visit to the Nazi Embassy in Dublin , it leaves one aghast and was unpardonable . In retrospect De Valera should have been shot as a 'patriot' in 1916 and have saved us all much grief and economic involution .
Pity Archbishop John Charles McQuaid was worshipped, as a God, during the Dev Era
No Harrison - son of Harry - you know I'm spot on - the IRA wasn't betrayed by Collins, not by a long shot - he was the leader of the decent IRA (not the later bomb-happy few degenerates) DEV was such an admirer of Hitler he would have gone to his funeral if he could have - Nice guy to have as a 'leader' isn't it ? The British did NOT hate the Irish - how could they, with all the peaceful intermingling going on since hundreds of years - Irish people and families were living in (sans Ireland) Britain as they do today and vice-versa. The Government in London over-reacted but did not kill THAT lot of people, the unforeseen crop failures did most of the thing - to which the Government and bureaucracy reacted very poorly and too late - not the common peoples of the Isles, be it Protestant or Catholics. (As a Catholic -born I know how little and flimsy it means to start fighting a neighbor who has another idea about the SAME religion)
DEV got what he wanted - the DENIAL and the RIDDANCE of good people who could pose a threat to him - His personal self-indulgence was the reason the great Irish leader was out of the way. And Collins was the needle in his eye. He got him killed, so no decent peace plan could emerge and POWER would be HIS to take to plunge Ireland in a deep pit for decennia to come. Been to Ireland and talked with a LOT of people - so I know. Bloody DEV.
LOVE HIM
I wonder how he amazed, his vast personal... Wealth.. Divies from arms industries,, perhaps...??
No contraception back then
Dev's major achievement was keeping Ireland out of WWII when he could have easily been drawn in. I don't like what he did to Collins but he was a very intelligent man.
no his achievement was to turn irish against each other in a civil over something he knew not even he could get...typical american born
Ireland would have been destroyed in a war that was not theirs to fight. Britain had to enter the war because they didn't want Germany or any large power having such control over Europe.
There have been people as bad as the Nazis. The Germans got the idea from America and their go west expansion into Indian land. The native Americans were pretty much wiped out the Germans planned to go the same but go east. Mao killed more than 70 million but nobody intervened in that either. Look at all the dictatorships in Africa that the west ignores.
Do the same. Sorry they planned to take over land to the east.
Dev was a great man for Ireland
Conor I agree 100%
he was in his hole,he handed us over to the Catholic Nazis
He's been a villain since the movie Michael Collins came out and the subject to countless conspiracies see Fletch's comment above, There's a lot he done I don't agree with such as the civil war split, I genuinely can't say either side was wrong in the civil war, both were right. He wiped out half a British battalion in the 16 Rising, He also wrote up our constitution and is the reason we get a referendum whenever the EU push a bill, no other EU nation can do that.
Denmark does.
Owen Sheridan you obviously haven't studied English
Lol churchill American president referred to him as, that drunken bafoon, as for dev I believe he was a British asset, as Lenin said to control the opposition, you must lead it, the great game
It's to Irelands shame that they never fought Nazism other than those brave men and women who did so despite their country's views.
If we had our cities would have been levelled.....it wasn't our war..
Here here Davy. What was better English or Nazi. Only reason Ireland could stay neutral was the allies.
@@ryu2448 A flawed democracy versus fascism? If you don't know, I can't help you.
American soldiers were stationed on British soil.
But not in Ireland thank be jasus
Thumbs down.... far too much mainstream myth.
Ah now, you can't leave it like that! Tell us the "truth" then? ;-)
@Claire E - Taking you seriously, I'd have to say, just look into it yourself. In particular the parts about WW2 are full of myth, so start there. Letting the Irish have a "revolution" and "freedom" was all planned and packaged.
But by all means don't take my word for it -- go research yourself, sincerely, and with an open mind and heart.and you will find the answers.
churchill was a warmonger he declared war on germany not other way round
He threatened to bring down the government if the UK did not declare war on Germany in 1914.
Churchill did not declare war on Germany, do you history research and you will see in 1939 it was Neville Chamberlain who declared war on Germany. Not Churchill, he was left with the mess Chamberlain left behind.
Churchill had pressed for war for years.
@JK - You're having a bit of work to do correcting the historical ignorance of these paddies mouthing off about things they have very little knowledge of here.
They could easily Google it and in ten seconds they would know the facts
Do the math... it's not rocket science de Valera may not have picked Collins intentionally to go but that coward made damn sure that someone else was going to go just as long as it wasn't him....
im related to devalera
How dovyiu know, I take it you are English after leaving dev for her parents to look after Devs mother married a British Soldier with whom she had 7 children Never heard if Dev being in touch with his mother or siblings would be interested to find out how you found out you were related to him
@@laurielovett8849 because my great great grandads sister married him
Oh that’s cool ! So am I 🤭
American Buffalo 🦬? Try Russian Bear and American Bald Eagle 🦅!!
Dev was good looking like mysekf 😅
How much did the spik micks family get for the Irish Press
same as thick brits got from stolen land wanker
Nationalism the last refuge of a scoundrel,the Spik Mick never gave us back the Irish Press.
have a good ride u need to realease your brains
fantablum Brexit is scoundrel nationalism the British on the losing side.
Hes responsible for the death of Collins.
Usual rte b.s. hardly a fact in there😢
"Hitler committed suicide" lol ok great job discrediting everything else in this presentation
De Valerie would never have allowed mass islamic immigration and the dilution of Ireland Gaelic Christian blood.
Oh please. In the last census atheism is growing faster than any religion is Ireland. There are almost as many Orthodox Christians in Ireland their are Muslims and there are twice as many Protestants in Catholic Ireland as there are Muslims.
Traolach O'Breasaill . Check out Irish History and you will know that the Othoman Turks , ( Muslims ) donated food to Ireland and Queen Victoria did not like it . So away with your sick and vicious Hatred . The Irish are all over the world
, living peacefully with others .
he might have after being tired by being arse raped by the bankers.
benevolentnick1 whether Ireland likes it or not mass Islamic immigration is coming to Ireland as it has in the uk. God luck ireland. Dark times lie ahead.
nice racist touch there homie, bad enough I have a racist Pres, now i have to hear racists from my homecountry?? Bugger off and grow up!
Read "England's greatest spy" interesting take on the long fellow.
Denis Hehir in fairness that book is a load of b*llshit
Not necessarily DeVelera was the only one of the leaders not executed and after the files of the interviews with the men that were executed were finally released a few years ago, DeVelera's was the only one missing there is something very fishy about the whole situation given his history of being a pure treacherous snake it would'nt suprise me if his was only the British payroll either that or bought his life with information.
solidus784 terrible argument
make a better one so
@@solidus784 de valera escaped execution because he was an American citizen.
There was another who was replied also-constance markewicz.
If de valera was a British agent why did he opposed the treaty Britain wanted, negotiate away obligations of treaty ports and remain neutral against British wishes? Some agent...
WTH? a search for Cubans around the World got me here :o
DEV .. THE DEVIL SNAKE ...
And churchill was no better .
Dev the Vatican's snake
De Valera relevant in Irish history, Churchill relevant in world history.
TAL
Éamon de Valera 's has a very long nose
He wished he had the balls that Collins had..
A lot of troglodytes in the comment section imo