Welcome to Llama’s Lawn Lab. Interesting, I use the camelback insulated bottles and they’re great but don’t always sit in the bottle cage as well as some of the more traditional shapes.
Apart from looks, I can't understand why anyone would go for a black bidon. Then there is the added difficulty of seeing if anything nasty is starting to grow inside, as I think Von has mentioned before. I was surprised how efficient the thermal bottle was under the Aussie sun!
You should do a temperature test of the following (1) Shane Miller in sneakers, shorts, and socks. (2) Shane Miller in sneakers, shorts, with no socks. Which one is cooler? The internet needs to know. :)
For the summer in the UK i run the 600ml camelpack podium ice bottles, filled with ice + water/ drink mix and for 2 or 3 hours they stay real cold. One thing to consider, on our bike theyre constantly being hit by wind which may affect results, the other is that road vibrations and bumps would mix water around which will deffo speed up the warming process. Finally, drinks mix will warm at different rates to straight up water. (could be a cool test - which drink stay cools longest)
cool story, my fav cafe doesnt do ice, think its because they have to order it in and its expensive or whatever, at the time in the UK we were going through a heatwave, meaning that it wasnt raining or some shit. Filled up a bottle with nothing but ice and rode 2 hours to the cafe, got there and enjoyed my coke WITH ice. other looked on with envy
Definitely Agree! I have a few Camelbak Podium Chills although the 2 old ones doesn't seem to keep it as cold for long as long as it use to although they are probably 10+ years old.
Very good review. Thanks. Would be good try with red one, it is supposed that catch sun rays a lot too. And as another people say compare Elite with Camelback would be great. Anyway, thanks a lot for your video. Regards from Spain.
I use an insulated Camelbak bottle for winter riding. I set out with as hot water as I can drink, so that the water doesn’t freeze for as long as possible ❄️.
I do the same by boiling my water before leaving the house and putting it in a 50/50 bottle for transport. Its a little extra work because I don't use the cycling insulated bottles until I get to my ride location. After starting to avoid burning my tongue I usually open the drink valve but do not drink for at least 15 mins. . After an hour the 2nd bottle is usually lukewarm but better than ice water. The 50 50 bottle (40 oz and 64 oz) are amazing. The larger can do 2.5 water bottles in one fill up and remain cold/warm for up to 24 hours. I have came back the next day opened one up and the ice may be gone but the water remains ice cold. smile.amazon.com/Fifty-Vacuum-Insulated-Stainless-Steel-Bottle/dp/B011KJH12E/ref=pd_sbs_200_4?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B011KJH12E&pd_rd_r=PVAKNQ5R8EF8H4C9C74D&pd_rd_w=nRXXr&pd_rd_wg=paHAv&refRID=PVAKNQ5R8EF8H4C9C74D
Here in Southern California I use the Camelback podium chill. Fill half way with ice then water or Gatorade or performance drink of your choice. More ice for hotter days. Keeps really cold for hours
I've noticed that the bottle that catches the most wind if its hot out will heat up a lot faster. On my recumbent trike its a big drop in temp for the bottle in front catching the hot air. You need to test them on the bike after moving.
Shane Miller, if the weather is so cold that your drink will freeze in a bidon. Stay inside and just drink tea 😁 ps, I think I’ll invest in one of those Elite bottles for our Summer. Anything over 15°c in Britain is classed as tropical 😂 ☀️☀️
Thanks for bottle test. Is there a black and white swan comparison test in the works. World domination characteristics would make interesting graph results.
In case anyone hasn't heard already, fill your bottles half way or so with water a few hours before your hot day ride, then top them up before going out for maximum cooling effect. 👌 Adjust the pre frozen level based on outdoor temperature so that the bottle has thawed by the time you get to the last sip. 😎
just bought them. be warned they are much longer than the equailavent bottle sizes due to the inner thermal layer. in my case they don't find the vertical bottle holder with the 650ml version i got.
During a UK January I'm slightly jealous! I'm dreaming about needing a thermal bottle to keep something cool on a 31 degree day. Can you do a test for how long a thermal bottle keeps tomato soup warm on cold, damp and dark days?
Nothing unexpected about the results, what I would like to see is a side by side of the Elite, Camlebak's big chill, and the Polar insulated bottles with a fly team as a control
Interesting comments about the TDU, given they're getting bottles passed to them out of a team car window straight from a cold icebox whenever they run out (and you could also put ice in them to keep them cold even longer). I'd expect them to be going through a of water regularly in order to stay hydrated and maintain peak performance for longer in the heat, so the real question is would they actually get a benefit from a white drink bottle since the 30 minute mark the difference was inconclusive and it took an hour for there to be a noticeable difference. Personally in summer I run 2 x 800mL drink bottles, so moving to insulated bottles would cut my capacity by over a third, which for me is not worth it, although I may change my second bottle to a thermal bottle, as that's the one that will actually survive through to getting warm! Also a hack with the insulated bottles is to leave the lid off in the fridge - or they'll still be room temp when you pull them out ;)
the teams in TDU will not use Nanogel bottles - they don't need them. Riders get their bottles cold out of the car and at that temperatures they will be drunk after 15 mins or so. They are made for us unsupported riders. Btw - I never had a Nanogel in summer, need them absolute for winter, drinks get way too cold without... that's the difference between Australia and Central Europe...
Good test. I've not heard of the Fly bottle. Does it have a drip-free spout like on the Camelback bottles? Also how much less liquid does the insulated bottle hold?
haha! Cheers. I don't even look at the durations most of the time to be honest. Some UA-cam information that doesn't come in the manual - January is the worst month for ad revenue on here. It drops in 1/2. No word of warning. No reason given. It's just assumed advertisers stack everything into December and things dry up as of Jan 1st. Such a kick in the nuts when I'm having a good run on here lately too..... Thankfully we have bikes to ride. And that always makes things better. :)
I don’t know if a temperature probe will work with water because it’s transparent. The emissivity of a white plastic bottle will not be the same as a black. A thermometer that takes fast measurements might work better. Still, his results seem reasonable.
Good test idea. However, when using an IR thermometer, you must use an emissivity table to account for different material, surface condition, color, etc. For example www.thermoworks.com/emissivity_table An IR gun is more accurate for surface temperature. Not to mention the distance from the gun to the object affects the reading too. A meat thermometer probe is probably more appropriate for this test. However, as long as you were comparing the same water source, same initial water and bottle temperatures, same reading distance (in this case you shot the gun directly at the bottle openings = different bottle heights), etc. I think it's negligible.
I kept thinking that the concrete masonry would induce heat through thermal mass. Testing in bottle cages on bikes sitting on the sun probably wouldn't make too much difference. When it's hot 🔥 it's hot.
I am going to be a little hard on you Shane, normally your tests are pretty anal, but today it was a bit rough. You need to start with exactly the same temperature. Second, wind moving around objects makes a massive difference to stability. Also the temperature having a large difference changes quicker to when it becomes closer. I have carried out many temperature rise tests so an old hand at this. The results would probably be the same but not up to Shane’s normal standard. Great work for doing it anyway, just nit picking really. Hee hee.
The bottles did start at the same temperature. And this is bodge science on a nice summer day. If I was a real scientist I'd not be messing about on UA-cam getting grass stains on my arse. :)
Welcome to Llama’s Lawn Lab. Interesting, I use the camelback insulated bottles and they’re great but don’t always sit in the bottle cage as well as some of the more traditional shapes.
Apart from looks, I can't understand why anyone would go for a black bidon. Then there is the added difficulty of seeing if anything nasty is starting to grow inside, as I think Von has mentioned before. I was surprised how efficient the thermal bottle was under the Aussie sun!
FINALLY! I always knew about the color as well - nice to get some actual data on it though. Thanks man!
You should do a temperature test of the following
(1) Shane Miller in sneakers, shorts, and socks.
(2) Shane Miller in sneakers, shorts, with no socks.
Which one is cooler? The internet needs to know. :)
But where would I point the laser!? :)
I think we all know it's Von who controls the laser.
For the summer in the UK i run the 600ml camelpack podium ice bottles, filled with ice + water/ drink mix and for 2 or 3 hours they stay real cold. One thing to consider, on our bike theyre constantly being hit by wind which may affect results, the other is that road vibrations and bumps would mix water around which will deffo speed up the warming process. Finally, drinks mix will warm at different rates to straight up water. (could be a cool test - which drink stay cools longest)
cool story, my fav cafe doesnt do ice, think its because they have to order it in and its expensive or whatever, at the time in the UK we were going through a heatwave, meaning that it wasnt raining or some shit. Filled up a bottle with nothing but ice and rode 2 hours to the cafe, got there and enjoyed my coke WITH ice. other looked on with envy
No Camelbak? Gotta be the most popular brand for bottles?
Garreth Holdaway agreed!! At least in the US, everyone uses the CamelBak insulated bottle
I can only play with what I can get a hold of. These did the trick. Would be keen to put them up against Camelbak.
Definitely Agree! I have a few Camelbak Podium Chills although the 2 old ones doesn't seem to keep it as cold for long as long as it use to although they are probably 10+ years old.
Looks like a topic near and dear to us all :)
Which passes the most toxins into the water!? Hotter intuitively feels worse?!
Nice video, i was waiting for the graph showing temperature decline over time... gonna go get some black insulated bottles now.
Genius! Thanks mate!
Very good review. Thanks. Would be good try with red one, it is supposed that catch sun rays a lot too. And as another people say compare Elite with Camelback would be great. Anyway, thanks a lot for your video. Regards from Spain.
I use an insulated Camelbak bottle for winter riding. I set out with as hot water as I can drink, so that the water doesn’t freeze for as long as possible ❄️.
I do the same by boiling my water before leaving the house and putting it in a 50/50 bottle for transport. Its a little extra work because I don't use the cycling insulated bottles until I get to my ride location. After starting to avoid burning my tongue I usually open the drink valve but do not drink for at least 15 mins. . After an hour the 2nd bottle is usually lukewarm but better than ice water.
The 50 50 bottle (40 oz and 64 oz) are amazing. The larger can do 2.5 water bottles in one fill up and remain cold/warm for up to 24 hours. I have came back the next day opened one up and the ice may be gone but the water remains ice cold. smile.amazon.com/Fifty-Vacuum-Insulated-Stainless-Steel-Bottle/dp/B011KJH12E/ref=pd_sbs_200_4?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B011KJH12E&pd_rd_r=PVAKNQ5R8EF8H4C9C74D&pd_rd_w=nRXXr&pd_rd_wg=paHAv&refRID=PVAKNQ5R8EF8H4C9C74D
Here in Southern California I use the Camelback podium chill. Fill half way with ice then water or Gatorade or performance drink of your choice. More ice for hotter days. Keeps really cold for hours
"A bit of backyard science, here in the front yard" I can't tell if that was intentionally said or not but it made me laugh...
I've noticed that the bottle that catches the most wind if its hot out will heat up a lot faster. On my recumbent trike its a big drop in temp for the bottle in front catching the hot air. You need to test them on the bike after moving.
No re-tests until I get some Camelbak ones. And this is only backyard science / fun.
On days like this It's time to make Sun Tea.🌞☺
Interesting video but fairly pointless here in the UK. That water in the Elite insulated bottle is still a lot warmer than our Summers 😁
It works the other way too.... stops things freezing.
Shane Miller, if the weather is so cold that your drink will freeze in a bidon. Stay inside and just drink tea 😁
ps, I think I’ll invest in one of those Elite bottles for our Summer. Anything over 15°c in Britain is classed as tropical 😂 ☀️☀️
Thanks for bottle test. Is there a black and white swan comparison test in the works. World domination characteristics would make interesting graph results.
In case anyone hasn't heard already, fill your bottles half way or so with water a few hours before your hot day ride, then top them up before going out for maximum cooling effect. 👌
Adjust the pre frozen level based on outdoor temperature so that the bottle has thawed by the time you get to the last sip. 😎
Or put ice in them and water
Where's the option for double thumbs up due to the laser weaponry gag at the end of the vid? haha...
just bought them. be warned they are much longer than the equailavent bottle sizes due to the inner thermal layer. in my case they don't find the vertical bottle holder with the 650ml version i got.
the guy at 6:11 must be thinking "dang it got a weird neighbour!"
Hopefully catch u in Readelaide
I bought a couple of Camelbak Podium Chill for this summer. So much better than a normal bottle, but I don't think it's as good as that Elite is.
interesting to test a handful of ice cubes in a large white bottle. Cheaper, larger capacity and maybe as good for an hour, or so?
Damn you! ;) Here its -2C =(
Jealous! We still got snow up here... :P
Currently carry hot coffee in a black flask. Hopefully in 6 months I can pop some ice cubes in my £2 bottle and go ride in the heat
During a UK January I'm slightly jealous! I'm dreaming about needing a thermal bottle to keep something cool on a 31 degree day. Can you do a test for how long a thermal bottle keeps tomato soup warm on cold, damp and dark days?
Nothing unexpected about the results, what I would like to see is a side by side of the Elite, Camlebak's big chill, and the Polar insulated bottles with a fly team as a control
Wow, nice video, i need one to keep what s inside hot, not cold :))
Interesting comments about the TDU, given they're getting bottles passed to them out of a team car window straight from a cold icebox whenever they run out (and you could also put ice in them to keep them cold even longer). I'd expect them to be going through a of water regularly in order to stay hydrated and maintain peak performance for longer in the heat, so the real question is would they actually get a benefit from a white drink bottle since the 30 minute mark the difference was inconclusive and it took an hour for there to be a noticeable difference. Personally in summer I run 2 x 800mL drink bottles, so moving to insulated bottles would cut my capacity by over a third, which for me is not worth it, although I may change my second bottle to a thermal bottle, as that's the one that will actually survive through to getting warm!
Also a hack with the insulated bottles is to leave the lid off in the fridge - or they'll still be room temp when you pull them out ;)
Marginal gains. And this is backyard science, where overthinking it has no place! ;)
the teams in TDU will not use Nanogel bottles - they don't need them. Riders get their bottles cold out of the car and at that temperatures they will be drunk after 15 mins or so. They are made for us unsupported riders. Btw - I never had a Nanogel in summer, need them absolute for winter, drinks get way too cold without... that's the difference between Australia and Central Europe...
These would only really be useful for maybe 1 week in the year in the UK!
And the other 51 weeks to keep things warm. I'd like to see someone do the flipside of this test with keeping things warm/above 0degC.
Interesting test Shane, but I feel wouldn’t the wind/breeze while cycling affect the temperature?
LOL... 32 degrees.
Those bottles will melt in our climate which is 80+ all year round.
All in all very entertaining vid.
Celsius
I watched the vid after I posted my comment again and heard you said celsius.
I would be interested in a comprehensive testing of insulated bottles for keeping hot liquid (tea) warm for cold winter rides...
Give me six months... it's the middle of summer here! :)
Leave it outside to boil, then put it back in the fridge!
Good test. I've not heard of the Fly bottle. Does it have a drip-free spout like on the Camelback bottles? Also how much less liquid does the insulated bottle hold?
Hello. It would be cool to make the same test but with warm water and cold ambient ? Does the insulated bottle keeps warm better too ?
Cmon Shane, make that video 2 seconds longer! You deserve all the ads.
haha! Cheers. I don't even look at the durations most of the time to be honest. Some UA-cam information that doesn't come in the manual - January is the worst month for ad revenue on here. It drops in 1/2. No word of warning. No reason given. It's just assumed advertisers stack everything into December and things dry up as of Jan 1st. Such a kick in the nuts when I'm having a good run on here lately too..... Thankfully we have bikes to ride. And that always makes things better. :)
I don’t know if a temperature probe will work with water because it’s transparent. The emissivity of a white plastic bottle will not be the same as a black. A thermometer that takes fast measurements might work better. Still, his results seem reasonable.
it the first part was the wife on the trainer? I'm sure I could hear it
thanks for the test, ask what was the room temperature?
I don't understand the question. This was done outside. The ambient temperature was mentioned in the video.
Good test idea. However, when using an IR thermometer, you must use an emissivity table to account for different material, surface condition, color, etc.
For example www.thermoworks.com/emissivity_table
An IR gun is more accurate for surface temperature. Not to mention the distance from the gun to the object affects the reading too.
A meat thermometer probe is probably more appropriate for this test. However, as long as you were comparing the same water source, same initial water and bottle temperatures, same reading distance (in this case you shot the gun directly at the bottle openings = different bottle heights), etc. I think it's negligible.
Backyard science.... It's like real science, but without the thinking. Real science doesn't have toy fire trucks.
Shane Miller keep up the good work!
44 degrees?! I bathe in cooler water!
Very interesting! I think that the different volumes of water in the black vs insulated bottles would have been a variable.
Also curious to know if sports drinks would have different thermal absorption rates to plain water, even in identical bottles.
This is bodgy science, not real science!
It ain't bodgy if the results are valid😁
I kept thinking that the concrete masonry would induce heat through thermal mass. Testing in bottle cages on bikes sitting on the sun probably wouldn't make too much difference. When it's hot 🔥 it's hot.
They were sitting on wood.
If you want them to stay cooler for longer just add ice cubes or stick them into the freezer for a couple of hours.... 😉
Can you please re test, re shoot and upload in Fahrenheit please.... 😉
Likewise I'd prefer British Thermal Units per Hour, thank you.
...then do Kelvin
and for completeness top it off with Rankine
Fun video buddy! :) But did you not learn anything? You are wearing all black!!!! :P hahahahaha
Neighbors must be wondering :)
Backyard science on the front lawn? :P You've already failed ha
Large black single wall bottle against an insulated white bottle?
Not a great way to check temp.
It's backyard science. That's never a good way to do anything. :)
Cool vid. See what I did there? #thegrasswasbetterinthornbury
The squeazy ones leak. Poor design on the threads. Too bad, otherwise they're nice. Camelbak for me.
shame the thermal bottle wasn't black also. not going to tell you much really. but you know that. think the heat go to you here.
Proving that black = hotter while wearing black cap/t-shirt/shorts on the basis that black = cool? ;-)
I'm getting pummelled on this one today... crikey.... everyone needs to.... chill.... ;)
As the saying goes. If you can't take the heat... ;-)
I am going to be a little hard on you Shane, normally your tests are pretty anal, but today it was a bit rough. You need to start with exactly the same temperature. Second, wind moving around objects makes a massive difference to stability. Also the temperature having a large difference changes quicker to when it becomes closer. I have carried out many temperature rise tests so an old hand at this. The results would probably be the same but not up to Shane’s normal standard. Great work for doing it anyway, just nit picking really. Hee hee.
The bottles did start at the same temperature. And this is bodge science on a nice summer day. If I was a real scientist I'd not be messing about on UA-cam getting grass stains on my arse. :)
Black will never work to keep a drink cool. 1st grade science
first!