Hey, thanks for checking out my thoughts! You and your community here are pretty cool. Have continued to play after the patch and I'm enjoying it more now, will do another video after the holiday
curious to hear what you think about recent changes, hope it solved some of the experience you had. hope you enjoy endgame and always down to chat cheers!
@@dmdiablo4try to roll in lag spike from server... it's impossible... roll perfect is basicaly against Viper in A3, versus poison javelins. One tap in normal dif with 1.200 life and 35% chaos res, 30% phys reduction (ranger). Anyway great video again, from You guys. :)
LOL - People bullying Paul into continuing to play PoE 2 is hilarious to me (not saying that's what DM did in this vid, he was actually pretty fair). It reminds me of the early days of D4 when *EVERYONE* praised it to the high heavens until Actman gave his negative review. Suddenly, everyone was like "Wait a sec... Yeah, he's right. D4 bad, bruh. D4 BAD!!!" 🤣
@@bybybirdybirdnub got no exalted in my campaign, I'm in A3 cruel almost viper again... But I add things I dislike: 1) lost over 1 mil gold on refunds = too expensive 2) no ascendancy change 3) if lag (and You die) and crashed, You are out of party map, because You died there 4) insane difficulty for A2 final boss (too high life) and viper (poison javelins), Black Jaw (one shot from his third slam) 5) one death on map and You are out??? 6) small UI in character selection, can see just 5-6 characters etc. I'll probably try Huntress later, but I'm done if no big change.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to hear that 90% of players aren't even at cruel yet. We don't give ourselves enough credit in terms of just how much we play and understand games in general.
i will say most ppl are struggling with the story because they are waiting for items to drop that wont drop LOL they need to buy the gear from vedor but that requires to much brain power for this tiktok generation
Noone wants to help anyone. And if they do they trash you if ur a ssf player. And ive tried 100hrs of poe 2 and ive not even made it past act 2. Because u cant get enough currency and farming campaigns doesnt give u anything on repeating it. Ive also been trying to make my own builds. And it feels impossible
When Tassi says "It's nothing like the game that came before", he means the campaign, not POE1. He's not saying that mapping in POE2 isn't like mapping in POE1, he's saying that POE2 mapping feels like a completely different game than the POE2 he was playing before getting to maps.
Yeah, Darth had good points but misunderstood Paul on that and also what Paul meant by "rewarding" when Darth brought up he didn't mention loot. I feel what Paul was getting at there was you're playing hard content to progress maps, get better loot and then all to do harder content, but overall you're just struggling to maintain and not hitting any new power spikes where you get a leg up on the next stage of content. Instead it stays as hard, or gets harder, and either you push through to maintain where you are at or you fail and loose a bunch of that supposed progress. Thing is that is the endgame as of now, and it's fair to say maybe that type of brutal endgame isn't cut out for Paul as he wants one where he can at times dominate.
Yeah I personally bounced off PoE1 3 seperate times because the 1 button builds, "shit RNG or Trade" for everything, and endgame builds clearing the entire screen of 1000 enemies instantly. I loved D4 at the start and PoE2 during the campaign when it was tough, I had to pay attention and make decisions against the 10 mobs I see on screen, and the bosses are challenging but fun. By the time you get to end game, it feels like it wants you to have a PoE1 "clear the whole screen instantly" kind of build, and I miss the slow, more methodical pace the game had for 90% of the campaign.
really feels like the issue is just time loss in the late game. like yeah I could grind through it but the ratio of time spent on it isnt rewarding enough. seems fixable for full release for sure
Agreed, the rate at which you progress and get better slows down soo much and its mostly due to stuff thats just not fun. Dying and losing XP + a map, Bricking gear when you roll bad stats ect. Games great, best ARPG imo, I think end game just needs to be more fun. Not just grindy.
I kinda disagree. The core design of the game is really self-contradictory, and I think that's the core of the problem. They want difficult, mechanically rich boss fights that you learn through trial and error, but then give you 1 attempt at them. They want slower, more deliberate combat, but then bring in PoE1 style enemies that reward one-shot zoomy playstyles. Half of the Warrior's melee skills are unusable because of how slow they are. They said they want to move away from one-button builds, but most of the top builds so far are basically one damage skill + curse. It's like 1/2 the dev team is just making PoE1 refresh, and the other half is trying to make a Souls-like.
yea ive come to that conclusion too after GGG only provided a single portal for a Breachstone. 300 splinters on SSF isn't exactly a quick acquisition. Maybe for some, but not for my character currently. A single fucking portal for a boss fight. Ridiculous. I'll keep testing the other classes instead through the campaign. That's a good time :). Endgame needs to be put back in the oven.
@@luierdaneenpamper3877 I'm on my 3rd character now, the acts (especially act 2 to early act 3) is the best feeling arpg I've played but the mapping experience is the opposite.
I'm on the same boat with this guy. Once I reached maps, enjoyment of the game went down significantly. Cannot stand one-shots. There is no crafting system, just the gambling system. It's the same thing as rolling random armor from the shop, but you just roll random affixes instead of the whole armor. Not only that, you get no currency to work with. But my main issue are the trials. Absolutely hate them and if they don't change them, I do not plan on coming back.
Yep, sanctum/sekhemas is the most frustrating game mode unless your character is designed for it. Requiring honor resistance relics is a bad idea, all it does is make it stupidly difficult for newer players. Crafting 100% reliant on luck also needs to be adjusted, and let us overwrite runes. We’ve played the stubborn way long enough, I’m ready for changes
I think the issue you may be glossing over, is that grinding a work week worth of hours to have minimal progress, and functional strength gain, all while having the chance it can be ripped away with a poor death is pretty unmotivating. Everyone stops playing ARPG’s at different points, but normally it’s when the grind pain outweighs the players next big gain dopamine. And this game has set that bar fairly early due to its punishment for most people
To be fair it's not really that bad. I do think it needs improvement, but even in current state it's still pretty good. I mostly just think they could make it a lot better and more rewarding while keeping the challenge intact.
Any PoE leagues I've played I've stopped when the stash becomes impossible to manage, I stopped PoE2 endgame after around 50 maps with loads of stash space left. I'm still having fun running other characters through the acts but that's because I have enough gold/currency from the 50 maps to actually buy an upgrade if I see one.
@@Syaniiti This. This is my biggest problem with the game right now - map sustain. I am spending all my gold and mats pumping maps that I might just die in and end up with absolutely nothing and have to run some terrible t1 or t2 maps for ages dropping no upgrades to maybe get another shot at a t5+. Besides making endgame deaths less punishing they also have to pump higher tier map drop rates for me to care about running it.
And yet so many people that also grinder a week have fire builds and are clearing content and are making meaningful progression. Is there a chance its not the game, but the way it's being played/approached? Is it even a remote possibility?
@@zero_grav_original The people you're talking about are streamers/content creators because the vast majority are NOT having that experience. The vast majority are still in campaign and haven't even broken into maps yet.
Місяць тому+44
he wasn't comparing poe2 to poe1... he was comparing "poe2 endgame" to "poe2 campaign". his point was they felt like two very different games with different rules. rules that, on the face of it in EA, don't respect the player's time with the amount of grind, rng, oneshots, death punishments and grind. In the poe2 campaign... in the same game, all of those aspects are not nearly as "unfun". (i think you missed this cos you paused in the middle of his comparison which gave you the wrong impression). I thought his opinion was pretty darn fair, and entirely devoid of controversy all things considered. thanks for reacting to it, i wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
I thought this in the beginning. "there's no way, we will combo off all these skills late game" Then if you watch end game videos, it's the opposite of what the devs wanted
My unpopular opinion is that as a casual player, I hate the trade aspect. It’s interesting but having to trade to play the game is not why I play the game. I want to get excited when I find a good item, not go shopping to make the game easier or else I can’t continue the game myself
You actually can select "solo self-found" as a game mode on character creation. Also a huge majority of content creators/streamers for the game are SSF as well, you're not alone in that regard. The shopping thing is definitely overblown, a lot of your gear will be picked up off the ground, you can use vendors to fill slots that low roll, but it's certainly not necessary. There are several mobs worth farming for crafting supplies/drops and you can chain farm them using the checkpoint feature (respawn at checkpoint next to a miniboss/rare monster) if you need to farm something out. Maps will provide an over-abundance of loot to go through once you get through the campaign. (I have 2 chars in maps)
To anyone suggesting SSF, it's not always a good solution. The game is balanced primarily around trade, the devs will look at how much and how fast people are gaining power in that environment and then balance difficulty around it. You're just making the grind 10x longer if you choose not to engage with it, which is fine if you want a grindier game, but the base game is already grindy enough for a lot of people. They should do what Last Epoch did and make it so that you get increased drop rate if you choose to play SSF. They did a survey and the result was that half of ARPG players prefer trade, the other half don't. Right now GGG just doesn't give a fuck about the second half because most of the core devs are in the first half. I mean, in their infamous trade manifesto they stated that an item only matters when it's valued by other people, which is ???. Maybe my item matters to me because it's what I found, what I crafted, and what helped me beat that difficult boss. I couldn't care less what other people think about it.
I think you missed his point. His point is not that he doesn't like dying. He says that the punishment for dying (loss of XP, map rewards, progress etc) is too frustrating to him and makes any progress impossible. TBH I have the same problem. I did kill all bosses but I was dying A LOT on them. (yes skill issue) If I'm not able to die once in maps then....
I think it's a pretty reasonable criticism tbh, I think the difficulty is fine but the punishment for death is much higher than it should be. I wouldn't be surprised if that gets adjusted while keeping the raw difficulty the same
Maybe someone said this before. The main issue for me and maybe other "casual" players that have a "9 to 5" job, maybe a family, is that you have a limited time to play per day, per week. If you die once to a one-shot in an endgame map and to get back you have to play during several days, it feels like the game is not rewarding and not respecting your time. Not every player is very skilled. I think it would be smarter to have more tries per map, but loot tiers based on how many deaths it took to finish the map. 1 try 100% loot, 2, 85%, up to 5 let's say, where you get 40% of loot. You could choose to go on with diminished loot, or restart for full loot. What do you think?
I personally like having the pressure of actually losing the map. Both poe1 and Last Epoch give you more chances, path of exile 2 just isn't for everyone.
@@Curiomerc Then they better have a 1b marketing budget like blizzard because they are going to need a whole new player base as POE1 players drop this like a hot rock.
how is it that if you die, that you have to play several days to get back??? Haven't seen this at all, a single time in this game. If you die in a map, you lose that 1 map, but you always have 5 or 6 others sitting in your inventory. If youre talking about pinnacle bosses, then i dont understand how you are even at that level yet if youre busy with a 9-5 job and a family, and even if you are, you probably have enough currency anyway to buy the materials to attempt the boss again.
@@krom5851 Hi, I'm nowhere near endgame yet. I just follow some streamers and content creators. And for me it looks like I really will have a bad time after reaching endgame.
I would like to see more people critical about the game like Paul Tassi, there’s a lot of toxic positivity surrounding poe2 and while it’s okay to love the game to death people should take a step back and be vocal about the things people dislike otherwise the game will never reach its full potential
The thing is about what he said was just what kripp said. He said he didn't play even an hour of end game he also just says things that are 100% incorrect about maps. Like ya it is hard and a little unfair but he didn't even really try it is the thing.
Well, it doesnt help half the people say get gud, or mention something about D4, my personal gripe is that optimization is a big issue still especially for console.... maps it still drops frame rates and many other bugs when doing co op, than doesnt help people saying "early access" excuse..... than it seems GGG is ignoring consoles all together once again... i mean ive reported a few bugs besides the optimization but no one is responding in the forums... so what is exactly the point of reporting things.. when there is no talk or mention of help or at least a fix for it... i mean i got my 30 bucks worth of content but to other 30dollars is alot and pretty curious why poe2 doesnt have that many negative reviews because i know for a fact if other games came out half baked even early access it would be review bombed....
Toxic positivity?! Does the game need improvement from an early access state- yes but is it already a fantastic game- yes. Being positive about an amazing game is t toxic wtf are u talking about.
I enjoyed my time playing the game. Great sound design/music. Great vibe. Pretty cool/challenging bosses. Loved the WASD mvt and thats now ruined all other arpgs for me. UI needs LOTS of work, very unfriendly new poe player experience. All in all I’d give it a 7.2/10. Its got a long way to go.
its a cost vs reward issue and how you value your personal time If i'm not rewarded what I would want for my time then I will find something else to do
@@meganesenpai it's more proof GGG's claims of being inspired by souls are just all the aesthetics, none of the actual design lessons. fromsoft was never this punishing in souls, people like GGG read that into souls and sallied forth w/ bad game design, claiming souls as their inspiration and dirtying souls' name along the way by proxy.
@@meganesenpai At least the ground won't have anything of value anyway, as opposed to PoE1 where you occasionally got a good item =) Heck, my warrior got his 3rd weapon in act3, my witch upgraded from a level 4 to a level 57 weapon because there was nothing better in the shops or drops, my ranger actually upgraded her weapon the most, but I spent all my currency gathered up to that time to make it like I got something besides level ups in the campaign.
there has always been an easy way to separate the people who do value one death and done situations- it is and always has been called hardcore. Single deaths on boss fights that require learning mechanics will make a person, literally, a worse player, reason why; they will outsource the materiel and experience to a third party neckbeard to know what is coming and will force the majority of players into meta builds. one death maps and bosses were a shit idea and the game devs never should have green lit it in the release of the game reguardless of what theyre calling it: early access a beta, 90 percent complete.... LOL
I just don't like the concept of losing XP when I die, having died and failed and having to try again is enough of a penalty for me without also losing progress... as soon as I am losing progress by playing the game I very quickly lose any desire to play. Be difficult, kill me and make me try again that is all fine, just don't remove XP because I did not know the mechanic yet.
guys got a point. this is how a casual player base will feel. dm is not casual he is a seasoned arpg player who is making his career by playing these games for hours a day. this isnt the same for him as it is for other players.
His issue with one shots is not that you are one shot, its that you can't just redo the boss or hop back into the map, and the fact that you could in the campaign
This is what should be changed is as written in an article, imagine dying to Malenia and that’s it, you can’t fight against her anymore, it’s bad and should change
@deanjohnson8233 ok let's use borderlands 3 as an example then. Imagine you progress through the area of Eden-6 to get to Gravelord. You die to him and lose that entire boss area as a result. That would suck. Not a complete 1:1 comparison but losing a farming boss in bl3 or any borderlands game would suck big time. Not getting to redo the boss because of a single death sucks.
@@thegreycrusader in my opinion endgame maps and bosses should be up to as many times as you can, cause at the end of the day if you don’t have the right gear and stats you won’t be able to pass through them anyway, this way you can tweak your build to see what works the best and improve, they should also allow players to respec their runes and change their ascendencies in the next patch, that would be a huge win
everyone says don't quit just make your character better.... well I have 90 hours in and have not dropped a single greater jewlers orb so Im stuck trying to run maps on a 3 link since I can't afford an orb at today's costs and they aren't dropping so I just keep dying and losing waystones and not getting new ones. and unlike POE1 that had a chase to complete every map, there is no reason beyond gear chase and boss killing to do end game. And if you can't work on gear and you are not up for boss killing, then there is no reason to play end game. The other mechanics are too overturned IMO. I tried delirium on T1 map and was killed 5 seconds after walking through the mirror after getting swarmed by like 15-20 monsters, same with breach, and ritual. I have seen less than 6 essences in my entire play time and only 3 strongboxes, so that is basically non-existent feature of the game. there just isn't any reason to play. They changed boss attacks in end game by adding new mechanics, or changing old one to make them more challenging. So you still need to learn them even after fighting them in campaign.
You can vaal orb your gems to get a chance at a 4th socket. tooks me 5 attempts to get two 4-links in total. Pretty good stop gap until you get the greater orbs. Remember to not do this on your quality upgraded skills though.
Try allocating the atlas passive in the top left, it grants a 40% increase in socket curreny in certain biomes. This includes jewelers orbswasntI wasn't having any drop for about 100 maps. Since allocating this I've had about 3 in 20 maps
i found one greater jewel orb, almost missed it. funny thing though, my character nearly feels weaker now cause it jacked up the mana cost of that skill to unsustainable levels with the additional support gem.
You said in one part about getting resistances and HP and you'll be fine, I agree. But then you said that "before the patch you were oneshot for chaos damage", I have 68% chaos resist plus the charm and I get oneshotted all the time. Especially the snake packs, which appear and they're already spitting all at once and you die.
This literally happens in POE too. I think most people feel powerful in the campaign because they don't have the death penalty and they can just scale power with little investment on defensive stats. They get to maps and they can't properly pivot their builds.
I'm ok with one shots existing, though they should be rare, it would be hard to get rid of them entirely either way. Before the recent patch it was definitely not in a good state. It's better now from what I've played, but it'll need some continual tuning.
This is also not true for each class. There are specific patterns of defense for each character that slot you into a particular play style for the endgame. I see a lot of mercs without the correct balance of armor/evade due to bad advice. That's why they get one shot... The evade/accuracy calculation is extremely important in cases like this, where evade is exponentially more useful at max range for example (blind effect further multiplies this). This isn't even mentioned on guides I've seen.
Ok, wall of text incoming. But I have a theory around super hard hitting enemies, which is about sustain. To clarify, Im not talking about red telegraphed abilities that are supposed to be dodged, but everything else that chunks you for half your hp out of nowhere. I feel they feel forced to create difficulty through that because they make sustain way too easily accessible. Sure, its been heavily toned down from PoE1 but it is still the case. One culprit is somehow they have still made flasks meaningless in the end game because their recovery cant keep up with life pools at that point. If flasks are irrelevant, we will find ways to sustain with other means. Which leads to a situation where if you can sustain back to full life in 3 seconds through infinite means (regen/leech), then there is no difficulty through attrition from mistakes. You cant die from making a dozen mistakes leading you to having no flask charges left cause...well the flask is pointless and you recover from means that never runs out. So they have to hit you with trucks for you to feel things are difficult. Make sustain sources actually able to run out even at the top end and then difficulty can come from you making too many mistakes, having to cover them up with flask overuse, which cant last forever (if balanced). Then enemies dont have to hit like trucks. One random hit shouldn't matter then, but if you get hit by 20 mobs, then it will. Which is your fault at that point. Rant over. :)
One thing that we need to think about when people "quit" is that time is important, whenever people feel they are wasting their time or the game is not respecting their time they will drop stuff. Plus there are A LOT of other games at the moment so this being Early Access it makes sense that people would rather just wait till the game improves and then give it a try again. Just because someone quit for now, doesn't mean they eventually won't come back later! Also surprised that Darth really didn't get his point on comparing the mapping experience vs campaign, it's pretty clear...
The dude just said he stopped having fun. Not sure what this argument is about. I agree with the majority of his complaints. It's not fun in endgame. I do not enjoy maps
The story is fun and trying out each class which doesnt take long to get a semi good build going and at least doing the 1st asend , but once you get to maps... especially on console it sucks.....
If they take 15% of my ex upon death in thr end game once i reach the end game, i will quit it in no time. That's just horrible in my opinion. I'm fairly casual player and am not looking into playing a game with no progression in sight.
There is a punishment in death for the game, but progression is possible if you can overcome the challenge and build a strong character. XP loss might be too high combined with waystone loss but some form of punishment is fundamental for POE.
@@wholesomedom I personally don't mind any death punishment other than XP loss. Like I said earlier, I'm a fairly casual player and will make mistakes. There will be times where I won't play for a week or two. If after a long break, I come back to the game, die and lose 3 hours worth of XP, I will log out instantly. I'm sure there are many casuals who would do the exact same thing. I think you, as a dev, will leave over 50% of potential audience because of this mechanic. I am not at the end game yet and I absolutely love this game and believe it is the best ARPG I have ever played. However, losing XP over and over will make me quit. Just like I did with PoE 1 once I got to a point where I couldn't progress anymore.
@@JohnDBarcaFan i agree with you, but maybe to cheer you up a bit, to lose 3h of exp you would have to be above lvl 90 and if you are as casual as you say, then, with no disrespect, but you will not reach that point. in lower levels one map will give you above 25% in exp. for poe2 to be punishing you have to sink a lot of time, so i dont thin you will have this problem
@@Deminese2 there are tons of people complaining about it and GGG have been taking feedback a lot over the passed 2 weeks... i wouldnt be surprised if they change it soon... and as well they should.. its a horrible punishment system.
I want the challenge, but losing the precursor tablet effects, and the league mechanics, and the boss, and the waystone, and the XP all at once for a single death makes me feel like playing empty low tier maps.... and by that I mean quit the game because empty maps get boring. maybe its time i finally played elden ring boys
I completely understand what he's saying about the Dodge roll with it being the only way to avoid damage from some attacks regardless of how much effort you have put into defences. That part is not fun at all
I'll be honest, I have 2,500 hours on POE1, and I did relatively the same thing. The overtuned honor damage in Sanctum put a bad taste in my mouth for monk/melee, and then by the time I got to maps, I had already been asking myself "am I having fun?" The answer was a pretty resounding "no" when 1-portal punishment kicked in that psychological effect you mentioned.
Now try to do one portal death with a friend. Oss are 1 of the two of you will be doing nothing but waiting for the other to finish the map for 1/3 of the night. PoE 2 is AWFUL with friends.
why lose anything? Punishment beyond dying is really really stupid...WoW's was bad enough that it should never be done again. Having to redo a boss fight is enough...its trial by error and having punishments beyond that is typically never fun except for people willing to commit the time to overcoming that challenge. It should always be for hardcore challenges NOT for the base game itself.
@@AndresColumbusExactly! Grinding back hours of lost progress just for it to happen again is a huge slap in the face and is entirely disrespectful of the players time. Dying and doing a run back is enough, but losing EXP, Maps, Tokens, etc is enough fo make someone put the game down for a long time. That's not something anybody, dev or player, should want in their game
Exactly. Honestly, I'll just play the game until I die in endgame. When that happens, I'm not about to regrind hours of something I have already done just because it was taken away from me. After that, I'll just stop playing the game.
@@AndresColumbus i seen this mechanic before in other games where you lose xp once you die but the resolution was that if you get ressed by someone else in the area you dont lose anything. So basically the game punishes if you go solo. Which kinda makes sense in a multiplayer game. But not sure if this could be implemented here as majority of the player base seems to hype on going solo...
Must admit - dad gamer here, so less time than I’d like to play. Heading towards end of act II and I’m finding the trials really just too hard as a warrior. Yeah, potential skill issue, but sheesh I’ve died more times than I can count and no closer to beating the trials.
Don’t try the trials until you’re into the second play of the acts. You’re too underpowered and no defences. Even that later trials, I hadn’t got my 3rd until I was lvl 81
Same...I'm in act II and the oddess thing to me are the enemies. I struggle more with the stupid hyenas than some of the bosses and elites. I haven't even bothered with the trials after seeing the complaints.
The Trials are way overtuned. At least the first ones you get as Quest Items are super hard and should be way easier to get a better Chance to learn it. After that it can ramp up, no problem
I get what he means about the dying in maps stuff. Like in campaign they want you to die over and over trying to kill the bosses(they said so in an interview) but when you get to maps you just not supposed to die anymore? Like they set it up so you can die as many times as you need(checkpoints that refill your flasks and hp) then just strip that away in maps and late game bosses. Just makes no sense really its like teaching someone to swim, the first day you ease them into shallow water and they can leave when they want then the next day you throw them into the ocean with no life jacket or anything.
I’m liking Poe 2, but my god this community. I’ve never seen so much gatekeeping and ‘you just suck because you haven’t spent enough time on it.’ Literally the dumbest arguments I’ve ever seen from a community. Not everyone has time to dump 100 hours on the first week or even month it’s out. A lot of people that need to grow up around these parts.
@@Artistoic555 right. But to say a person sucks because they haven’t no lifed the game is absolutely mind boggling. People literally dogging on people for not being a hardcore player. The gatekeeping is just … weird
I feel like if when you die and you loose the whole map you shouldnt also lose EXP, one problem I have as someone who isnt very good at ARPGs and just enjoys to play casually I always find that in POE I get to high tier maps and start dying a lot and losing EXP and it kills the experience for me so I stop playing, its so much worse in POE 2 because not only do I lose EXP I lose everything. I died to a boss and when I redid the map there was no boss, I just turned off the game at that point. One thing that is keeping me playing is that I am getting currency, I like that exalted orbs are kind of the main currency at least in early map tiers.
Now imagine playing with friends. 3 of you on the map and one of you die. Either the other two also leave the map, or some person just sits there waiting to play the game again. Now imagine two die. Two peoples time is just being wasted while the other finishes the map. It's a horrible online game experience for people that aren't just no lifing without friends.
If you are dying a lot in a game, why should you get to progress into later stuff? High tier maps and pinnacle bosses may not be approachable for everyone, but I don’t understand why they should be. I can’t make it through Elden Ring and Dark Souls, but I still think they are amazing games and I loved playing them. I don’t care that I couldn’t beat it. That difficulty is there for other people and to give me something to strive for.
@@deanjohnson8233 I never said anything about the difficulty being a bad thing just that when I start to die a lot and there is no way to progress for me because I am bad at the game then I stop playing the game, believe it or not player retention is important to the the longevity of a game, not everyone may have the same experience as me but I think maybe some do.
@@deanjohnson8233 My dude, it's a fukin' video game. It's not trying to earn a job promotion. If it's not fun, it's just a bad game. Like I could boot up a hentai game and go rub one out and simply put have more fun. I'd rate PoE 2 somewhere below a mediocre hentai game.
Elden ring is solo game, this was supposed to be coop. My friend dying and me have to choose if Ill be mean and run a map while they cant even see what I do and need to wait for me is a no brainer decision... Literal anti coop game. And i dont play solo games unless the story is exceptional so this one goes to garbage can.
@@oszaszi 99% of players will be playing PoE2 solo. This is not a coop game. It's a game that has the option for coop for those that wanna do it. A coop game is something like Call of Duty or It Takes Two where 99% if not 100% play with others via team matching or lan.
You don’t have to in the campaign, just like you don’t have to in Elden Ring. There is no endgame in Elden Ring so this seems like a useless comparison to me.
@@deanjohnson8233 wym? You basically do have to do it in the campaign as everything respawns when you die unless you managed to make it to the boss fight and thus respawn at checkpoint right outside boss arena, you have to re-kill a lot to continue exploring the zone till you find the next objective/exit. Also might as well consider the dlc as Elden Ring endgame since you have to get damn far in the game to even unlock the ability to do the dlc content.
sadly theyd just add more honor and wouldnt get rid of it, but remember you can add buffs to each run you do... i forgot about them but they help... ran a monk and warrior, though stress full did it lol...
Losing XP is just a dirty move honestly. It doesn't feel good and it doesn't make me not want to die more. I already don't want to die. That's the point of a game, not to die. On the other hand the point of a game is to make me happy. Losing XP doesn't make me happy, quite the opposite. Making me waste my time is the quickest way to make me do something else. I think they need to get rid of the xp penalty altogether. Losing the path is plenty of penalty. Last Epoch had the same map penalty but no XP penalty. Had it had the XP penalty I would have quit the game a lot sooner.
100 % agreed. THis mechanic is the worst invention in all of gaming. It made me quit POE 1 and I hope they change it for POE 2 or I will probably quit too (or at least never care for endgame or play past lvl 70).
This is what I run into every league in poe1. Once I hit 90+ maybe I make it to 91. Maybe 95. But I don’t enter a boss or corrupted map unless I have no XP on my bar. Nothing worse than watching your half full xp bar go back to zero because something oneshots you in a map
They won't get rid of it, 99.9% sure. It's part of their design vision, and honestly, I do think it's good for the game, and makes getting to a high level or lvl 100 meaningful and race-able. I do think they shouldn't have increased the XP penalty to 15% from the 10% it was in PoE1, considering it is also harder to reach lvl 100 even if you don't die once compared to poe1.
I understand why they added the one life thing, and it's bc they don't want people tactically dying on purpose to reset the the maps and farm them with a good waystone. Obviously all they needed to do to fix this is remove mob respawning for maps... As others have said, there are just way too many punishments. The loss of EXP thing just needs to be removed, nothing justifies that. I can live with the waystones and map modifiers being lost, that seems like a fair gamble, but only if we get all 6 lives/portals. And FFS LET US REVIVE OUR FRIENDS! Unless you're the partly leader you can't start up another map, and no one wants to wait around after they die while everyone else tries to finish the map without them... Who the hell thought this was a good idea? Especially when you consider how easy it is to die when you play with other people, as the mobs are much stronger and you can't see a damn thing bc your buddies are covering the screen with fire, Ice, lightning, minions, and all kinds of other crap. Also, I completely disagree that they "fixed" the one-shots. Sure I may not be maxed in my defenses, but I think it's pretty lame that you're basically being forced to build as a tank no matter what class/spec you are... It severely limits the flexibility of our builds, and the fact that "crafting" gear with the stats and defensives we need is completely up to RNGeesus makes it very annoying to get geared properly. For example, It's a very bad feeling when I'm expected to replace some of my rare-find items (which are arguably just as important) for some chaos resist... I'm obsessed with this game, it's some of the most fun I've ever had , but I really hope they change these things quickly, or we're going to see a lot of people leave, eventually including me.
The part that's probably the main issue that's fueling the hate is when he said that you have to work back up towards your map when you're in the highest tiers. Just a misunderstanding he made from Kripp's video
Just wait until you die in a t15 map and have to spend hours farming another one. It's a valid complaint that everyone is going to have, and youll know instantly what we are talking about when it happens to you.
@gustavogamez8373 what if you don't know about trading because the game never tells you how to do it, and if you ask, you are met with "git gud" and "skill issue". Also trading 1 orb for a huge upgrade is pretty bad loot design. Why bother picking up any items if you can search for the stats you want and upgrade that way. I've played 100+ hours and have found around 5 items that were actually upgrades from a drop on the ground. (Not counting low level moves from blue items to a Yellow with 3 or 4 stats). Vendor roulette each level and hoping for orbs to drop isn't engaging loot design.
@@gustavogamez8373"just use the buggy trading website because the devs absolutely refuse to implement a system most modern games have a in game trade house"
XP loss is a really archaic concept, to the point that arguably the most ruthless MMO got rid of it, Eve Online. It was their bread and butter, literally, you die, lose xp which means you need to be subbed to retrain the skills you lost, it's literally how they made money, on top of losing your ship and fitting. So if the game whos motto is "Harden the fuck up" got rid of xp loss, why is it here?
The problem is not that we lose some exp , the problem is when u get to jusing and trying to make money , 1 death means that you lose all , all that things u put on your map , all drops that u had on your last map and so on , no one wants to grind blue maps with nothing just to see 1-2 exalts on some luck. Maps are still too big for no reason , movement speed how it is now just feels bad .
pretty sure when he said "not like the game before it", he meant the poe2 campaign.. not poe1.. *edit* - then the misunderstanding continued lol. DM really did not get what dude was trying to say
I think part of what might be happening is that just because something can be done or can be learned, it has to feel like it respects your time. Right now - for a lot of the reasons mentioned, it feels like it doesn't. One of the beautiful parts of original PoE was how many ways and styles a person could play with. This feels.... far too limited in viable choices. And while we could learn that, the question is: can we extract *more* fun from something else? In some people's cases, that will be yes. This seems to target a very specific, hypercompetitive crowd that feels forced to continue. But for anyone who is less committed to spending a full work week per week to essentially break even just to say we passed a digital challenge.... yeah.
My warrior is eternally stuck on the fire guy in act 3. The DPS check. I built a tank. I can stand next to bosses and keep their attention probably 60-70% of the fight and soak all their hits. I rarely have to dodge roll out of anything. I can clear maps with ease but my boss damage is nothing short of atrocious. I don't get it. I can pull 2-3 screens worth of enemies on a map at my level and blow them all up in a few hits. Map clearing is incredibly easy. But it takes me a year to kill a boss. I cannot beat the fire boss solo no matter how hard I try. I tried to have a friend help me and we still couldn't do it because of the ridiculous nerfing of players when you group up. That's another thing I hate. I feel great playing solo but as soon as I join a group I immediately notice my game change and I feel at least 50% weaker. It feels awful to group up which I think will really hurt the game long term.
I don't think the idea of closing permanently a map if you die is a correct solution in an ARPG. Making mistake should never be impossible to fix. This might cost you an other key or give you exp lost... but closing it for good never to be reopen again is a little cruel.
@damian02161986 oh I've been picking stuff up and crafting. But when my act 3 normal Xbow does 145 physical and has ias and +2 skills, I'm going to have a hard time replacing that. Same with chest. I have a 250 evasion/Armour chest with 103 life and fire and cold resist on it. What do you want me to do? Replace it with a 350 evade piece with 30 life? That's just how it's has gone and I guarantee I'm not alone. Edit: I'm SSF, I know i could go trade a couple EX for all new gear but that's now how I play these games and I'm just saying that I literally haven't even socketed most of my gear because I thought when I got into Cruel I'd be replacing it, and artificer orbs aren't common to salvage. But yeah I should frankly just go home tonight and socket all my shitty normal act 3 stuff because everything else out there is a side grade
I am struggling to defeat the second Act 2(Ogham). It's too hard. I bought a good bow, changed some equipment (on the trade website, I bought good stuff), and I'm still dying. I've asked many people for help, but nobody helps. Should I ask again? I won't create a fourth character; I finally made one I like, and it was strong until this boss. If I can't progress, what else is left for me except to stop playing? The boss has 5 or 6 mechanics that does one shot kill, it's so frustrating, and not fun, those things together create the perfect blueprint to get people rage quit.
My personal issue with POE2 endgame is it feels boring, just a really long arduous grind for points. You aren't grinding towards a new system or new functionality in the game, you have no goal to grind for. Playing the campaign I had the goal of grinding to the endgame, once I got there I did 20 or so maps and while I know I could progress and get stronger I do not see the point as I am not grinding towards anything. Grinding to become stronger for the sake of being stronger is boring in my opinion. Grinding to become stronger to progress into another system, or use another feature or element of the game gives reason to do it.
@@myztikgohanThey for sure are a goal but i feel like they are too far away, would be nice to have other goals that come before them so you dont lose sight of objectives
What makes me extremely sad about that is the Diablo team decided to put his quote that “Diablo 4 is in its ultimate form”…. It’s like, really?? You guys really think so!? Hmm….that’s not looking too good for the future then 😢
I cannot beat my 3rd ascendancy, ive made it to the third boss 3 times and died to poison every time. ive been stuck on it for 3 days... its getting super boring doing the trial over and over again.
part of the appeal of PoE is solving the problems you encounter within your build, its not Dark Souls where you can beat any encounter if mechanically skilled enough, you have to put in some work previously in the form of preparation. If you are getting killed by the same thing each time, poison in this case, find a way to solve it, with chaos resistance gear, a poison reistance charm, or any other defensive measure.
As for now, the best solution is to level up to 75-80, then just buy Barya ilvl 60 (area will be lvl 60) and you will steamroll over it. But yeah, trial of sekhema needs to be a bit better balanced. Also, watch guide on the moves of the last boss, once you know it it is really easy boss
@@mariosnork8785Kinda wish they had a suped up SSF mode. it's kinda crazy how easy it is to incorporate items targeted at different mechanics when you can trade. And the other option is a huge grind for bases.
@@Phillz91 I don't agree with everything he says, but they aren't bad takes. I know the internet is where nuance goes to die, but game reviews are really just opinions.
3:48 your opinion is correct DM. Average Casual Gamer here, and I'm finally closing in on the end of Act3 Cruel. I've been taking my time, just enjoying the ride.
trading bots are getting really bad.. It's causing massively inflated prices in trading now. A couple days ago you could get decent gear with 50 exaults. Now you can't even get gear without like 2+ divines which are over 60 exault r ight now.
Thats just not true if anything everything got cheaper if you feel like you only progress with 1div+ worth of gear then your build is the problem not the gear
I feel this guy and his frustrations and GGG should understand that if they want to retain new players they do need to consider that this guys points ARE valid . For the average gamer it seems punishing for sure and with the amount of “ one shots “ that POE has always had in there game new players will struggle and that’s not a way to retain new players interest .
He's not saying early game maps are an issue. He's saying he's not enjoying early game maps and from what he understands of Kripp's video, it doesn't get any better at tier 5, 10, 15, etc.
You out level early game maps very quickly. Even T4-T5 maps are USELESS because they give you almost no XP. They are a waste of time. Also, I did a T13 map and had a T2 map drop. I mean come on.
I hit 73 last night and got a rare T3 to drop and plugged it into a map that had two towers next to it both with +exp tablets in them affecting it. I walked out with 3 bars of exp...
XP loss should not be a thing in modern game. Losing potentially hour(s) of progress due to a one-hit feels REALLY bad. Like "put the game down" bad. Also, "struggle" is one thing. That can be brute forced. But struggle with xp loss is extremely demoralizing. Brute forcing in the face of XP loss is just a major feel bad. Saying the game has trade built into the game is extremely generous.
I appreciate your community, DM. You guys have been extremely respectful to Tassi's opinion, even those not agreeing with him. I've seen other communities not be as kind.
Even in D2 if you died in hell you lost 10%... BUT if you went back and looted your corpse without leaving the game you'd get 7.5% back. You could also retry as much as you wanted. D2 is just such a better game lol.
I died about 700 times during the whole campaign 😂 skillissue for sure. And that's fine. But I don't want to loose the maps, bosses or XP when I do. I just wanna have fun, progress and try to improve. But the punishment does not feel good, at all. And it does not give me motivation to progress further...
In regards to pushing through the difficulty, from the perspective of someone in Act 3 normal with like 55ish hours, and struggling, it's not the pushing through a challenge that is the problem. The problem is that It doesn't feel like there is any reward for it because every point feels like a grind. I worked really hard to craft a good build, I built up my resistances, I learn the timings, and I do everything they tell me, but then I get 1 shot in like 20 seconds because there are only a handful of builds that feel powerful and I'm not a 1%, top-tier mechanical player. I don't mind the challenge, but when the difficulty spikes are this big, and the grind is this grinding, and there isn't a reprieve like in PoE 1, it's hard to push through because it doesn't feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I don't need to be clearing screens with 1 button, but it doesn't feel like there is a middle. And then I think "I have another 3 acts of this, and an endgame"...yeah...I want to, but... Then GGG actually listens, much respect, and I think maybe there is hope, but I still don't know.
Been playing since release, still in act 2 normal… with two different characters. Loving the game but I’m not rushing to get to maps. Thoroughly enjoying my first play through and I will enjoy cruel when I get there.
If you finished cruel, jumped into the maps and is having a hard time here are some tips: 1} Waystones(map sustain) Complete the quests Tier 1 and 2 maps, and use your atlas points into waystones quantity and chance to get a tier up, it will make your waystones sustain better. 2} Fix your resistances and increase your HP or ES (surviving pool) as your top 1 priority. 2.5} If possible have a damage avoidance into your build, like Evasion or Block. 3} As you progress to mid game try to understand defensive layering combinig some recoup or surviving pool recovery into your build(mana = mind over matter+mana regen+mana damage recoup)( energy shield = ghost shround+/or wind dancer +/or grim feast +/or eternal youth +/or recover on block)( hp = life recoup on damage taken +/or life regen +/or recover on block) 3.5} You can use blasphemy with enfeable + curse suport gem to lower the damage you take as a desperate measure too. 4} At the same time as part 3, try to scale your damage improving your weapon, you can disenchant the rares you get and build up your currency to buy it, try to understand offensive layering on POE, grasping the concept of diminishing returns, if it is too much theory for you, just go to the trade site, search for a weapon and click under the weapon on the DPS icon, it will sort it by dps. Buy the better you can afford. 5} THIS IS A NERD GAME, you will eventually have to watch videos to understand the mechanics(tools) used in many builds in order to build your own character, you can copy paste every league like many do and have fun, sure, but the most joy you can have with this game come from applying what you've learned into building your own, be sure of that.
Maps have really soured me on the game. Its far too punishing. Losing time is a worse enough punishment with just the xp mechanics, but the one portal is straight up hostile and heinous. So everytime i get a char to maps I quickly consider moving on to the next character. But then theres only so many characters, its EA after all. And to top that off, randomly, since the latest patch, sometimes I'd get dc'ed to login after entering any map, trials, etc, and find said map completely gone. Insane. POE1 was hard in some ways, and I could appreciate the increase in difficulty in the next installment, but this is too far an overcorrect by far. I'll have to wait until they make more significant changes until I consider returning. It doesnt have to be easier, it just needs to be different.
I am new to POE and consider myself a casual gamer. I had some extra free time since the launch, so I was lucky and put in around 84 hours with minimal AFK time. I just completed the Cruel campaign last night. So I would say the assumption that most casual players are still in campaign is very likely. In normal times I would not have the availability to put in this many hours and the majority on my friends list have less time and are still in campaign.
@@matrix255 respeccing because I bricked my build during Act 1 and taking my time with the game as a first time player doing everything. Typical useless comment from you trying to make somebody new to the game feel less than because you are so good at a game.
Game is going to be in EA for quite some time, is there really sth to gain for reaching endgame this fast? Since there is no proper POB for part 2 it seems more fun to try the characters and skillgems and support interactions instead of grinding one character like it would be a normal POE season.
The people that do reach endgame this fast will be able to give the feedback to the devs so by the time all us normies reach it we will have a good smooth time. So if people want to speed to the endgame I say lettem
@@kanick1983 you think GGG is stupid? Even if they balance the endgame for 1% and you'll never reach it you will have a great game for 100+ hours. Should be enough for a soon F2P game to not complain that not everything is for you.
I think it's boring as fuck. Do I need to git gud? Maybe. But a souls like has mechanical depth. "Git gud" in Poe means copy a better build and get lucky with your measily drops. The process of getting gud is dull. I am on act 3 and have no motivation to play more
There's definitely depth to this game's campaign boss fights if you dont just have extreme dps. You still need to learn all of the moves and appropriate ways to dodge. Every single boss i struggled with i knew it was my skill issue on dodging and baiting them into position.
@darth, I don't know why streamers don't see this as the annoying issue that it is. Only a certain amount of maps have bosses on them. With one death per map, you enter a boss map, you get to the boss, he looks at you and you die and then what? You've lost that node's boss and you can't repeat it and you have to start looking for others. Not to mention the fact that the feeling of putting down 20 minutes to clear the damn map, then get to the boss, then maybe even get him down to 5% and you die due to a one hit mechanic.... not a good feeling. Either ALL maps need to have bosses and if you lose one boss map then there's tons of others (feeling of wasted time remains), or they just have to let us retry the boss fight. Bosses can reset their HP, then the give you 3-4 chances to kill it and that's it, it's so simple if they add this.
I've got 60 hours in the game. I haven't even finished act 3 yet. I'm new to arpgs. Every act boss feels like a new wall I need to grind/respec my way around.
I work at home, started playing as soon as it dropped, and have played a few hours a day. I have about 60 hours now and I’m still in Cruel Act 2. I have one friend who has played daily and is innormal Act 3, with about 30 hours.
3:36 I have nearly 2 days of play time and I'm not even finished with Act 3 normal. I'm new to PoE. I tried PoE1 for about 20 hours and it was too many systems and overwhelming.
It’s like saying, “this show gets great after season 3” but you have to slog through 20-30hrs of content. If the game hasn’t earned your time in the first few hours let alone 100 hours, thats flawed design and a substandard experience that hasn’t earned your time to get to those points. PoE2 was fun, but I’d rate my experience at 7.2/10.
I am new to POE, finished the campaign in 81 hours and 560 deaths - I did almost quit in the first Act but after reaching Act 2, I have been having a lot of fun and my build is feeling still weak but super fun to play. Not really motivated to play maps now, due to me dying a lot in general. For my dying and wasting time is the punshiment - so having added things that i will get punished for, does not really make me want to try the maps even. I do think that they will fix these things and I am mega excited for the official Launch!
Have you not found ure weaknesses, start again with a new character and go a different way with ure play time experience, then ull do maps and die less and have more fun cos ull be beating the game
Jesus 560 deaths? Not trying to flame or anything but holy moly. How did you stay sane the whole time? Im almost done with act 2 with only like 15 deaths lol
You should trade. Poe is a game balanced around trade. I'd wager if you spent like 5 exalts you could fix your survivability problems. Get gear that requires your skills main stat to wear with a few resistances and life on it. You will be super powerful in no time. More new players need to hear this. You can buy 1ex items to cap your resists and give you alot of es or armor or evasion
@@zacharydesalvo3612 It happens. lol. I mean on my monk I'm on Act 3 and I've died 98 times so far. Dreadnaught was horrendous for me with the narrow walkways and body blocking. Then spears to the face.
I feel like the loss on death in map is just too punishing. Loosing xp, waystone AND the mechanic just feels bad. Let me replay the mechanic again, so that i can balance the loss at least a little bit. Loosing on a boss map feels horrid, since i wanna do bosses and i barely see them. Currency drops or mid game crafting needs to improve aswel, so that people don't get stuck so easily.
The problem I've experienced is that early difficulty spikes from needing to learn mechanics or do some gear upgrading or grind a few levels feels achieveable, I'm new, that's a skill issue. But reaching a boss where it feels like you need to re-grind your entire gear set for a different resist while low leveling feels really bad. For example, I just transitioned from Ketzuli to Viper on normal on my Witch, running MoM on a minion build because duh, almost 1.5k effective hp from shields and mana which at this level when fighting mobs/elites in world makes me virtually unkillable. There was a low margin of error on Ketzuli's mechanics, a mistimed roll during his cone that follows you in particular could burn through my massive effective hp, so I used all my socketing consumes to rune for fire resist to get through Ketzuli. Now I'm getting one-shot by similar poison mechanics on Viper, and it seems that I have to re-gear completely for poison resist. It was hard enough to get one set of good +spirit gear at this level, it took a lot of time to get this set together for Ketzuli. Even thinking of doing that again just to beat Viper makes me feel bored and tired, so I'm just going to play a different game. TL;DR Difficulty is good, grindiness is bad, make surpassing difficulty less dependant on grind, like unslotting runes.
I failed my 2nd map 3 times in a row because I didn't realize "explodes nearby corpses" was a thing, just saw myself going pop and had no clue wtf was happening
22k hours in POE1 player here. Hmm Its like you dont get what he is talking about with the dodge-roll. The entire game is build around using the dodge-roll, and it kinda suck imo. If you do not play a meta build and your playing the game like its "supposed" to be played. Explore the skill tree, try different things out and does not have a lot of XP from POE1. then everything is fking annoying and you have to use your dodge-roll on most packs. GGG has made a very average game with straight up stupid choices in there systems. - 1 support gem per char? WTF? make a good game that allows players to do what they think is the best??? - Gating level of skill gems behind zones that you might not be able to get to without higher level gems??? - 1 portal maps are just annoying. the fact that you might lose your progress is making ppl quit. - The fact that you can freeze most bosses is lame. Whats the point of making the bosses do mekanics if you can just freeze them? - The Gem system is such a downgrade compared to POE1 - I could go on and on, But I will not since i have faith in GGG and I hope they will make the game good at some point :)
Pauls had some terrible takes (Veilguard, Starfield, etc) - but he's not wrong here. The endgame is definitely undercooked, directionless, overly punishing, etc. This includes the 4th ascendency (like...4 full floors of Sekhema is fucking outrageous; and Ultimatum...yea hard pass; there's KIND OF a reason most PoE players hate Sanctum and Ultimatum...but whatever, bring it to PoE 2 and lock player power behind it - good stuff GGG /s lol). And single portal boss encounters (like using a Breachstone, for example) is also insanity. I get a SINGLE attempt to learn mechanics? Its not good game design if I have to prewatch someone else do the fight, just so I have any shot at killing a boss that took a decent time to farm up. Learning and conquering the boss fights is one of the more fun aspects of these games (especially poe 2 since the bosses are awesome). Like, come on now. There's difficulty and then there's bullshit. This is bullshit. Just remember what Ziz said: "This is the worst PoE 2 will ever be". They'll fix this stuff, but man - playing endgame right now is painful. I think most should steer clear and just try other classes and play the campaign. A lot more fun imo. They've got something going with the endgame, sure; but it needs A LOT of work
nah the biggest issue is how dry/boring endgame is atm... they should add a boss rush mode and make the endgame infinitely harder whislt resembling the early game more so, the game needs to LESS punishing.. but harder/more rewarding in its delivery.
man i did have a hard time on the Act 2 final boss. but when i beat him. It was SOOOO rewarding!!!! like im just a casual player that might get 2-4 hours on my days off. but i am LOVING the game so far!
That's why some of us avoid popular builds. Your playstyle will be yours. Equipment will likely be cheaper in trade. The options in this game are wide and deep. If your goal is to be different, then go for it We also have less than half the game. It might be worth waiting for more classes and content to be pushed out.
Really the issue is that it seems the dev don’t want me to play the game at endgame. If I make a single mistake I’m set back hours farming useless content. I can’t die and retry to learn a boss, and I could die from any error of judgement and be set back to lower tier maps for a while. ‘If you are having fun then push through it’ well that’s the issue, I don’t have fun anymore. Campaign was a blast and I welcomed the challenge. Endgame is pure masochism, not my cup of tea, sorry. ‘Then quit’ well yes, i guess I will, which saddens me.
Exactly. GGG wanted accessibility. But I guess I took it wrong. It’s fun with the campaign but I’m not looking forward to endgame maps. Too punishing for the sake of punishing. If I die and lose all that progression, just to try and get it all back… and like some people said, reframing and not getting any materials to get back to the same level where I am at, it gets boring and unsatisfying. I looked at all the stash tabs and supporter packs that I bought for poe1 and told myself, I’ll never do the same with poe2. My years of playing poe1 made me realized why I quit in the first place. I guess I’ll just quit too once I hit endgame maps and get stuck at a tier.
On tuesday, before the patch, I was struggling around T4-T5 maps. Today I'm comfortably running T14 and T15 maps. Big upgrades, 4th lab done, it feels actually pretty good.
On my merc I just felt like big slams and giant hits killed me in T15s. Dunno, but its true, Evasion feel like a very weak late-game stat. There is a need for a 2nd layer of defence in late game. Only Evasion doesnt do it. Going harder on armor was what made my merc feel good to play late-game
I think the one part that may have been a miscommunication is that when he says "the previous game" he is talking about the campaign of POE2, not POE1, he's talking about the game shift from campaign to mapping how the punishment is so inconsistent. Also, I think a lot of his points aren't thing that he's running into in low tier maps, it's that he's already frustrated with early mapping and has nothing to look forward to since it is only going to get worse and more punishing. I don't think you're wrong, I just think it's a failure by the reviewer to effectively communicate the difference between campaign, early endgame, and what he is seeing as the future of the game from his perspective based on other's experiences.
Monk level 79. Post patch I still get one shot sometimes. It just feels much too punishing. Loosing exp and the map is just too much. I really love POE2 but I will not play it ever again if they don't change it.
I game every day as a dad of two young kids and I’m not done with act 3 on normal difficulty. People complaining seemed to have played a crazy amount of hours and the game is early access… like wtf. This game is fantastic. Constructive feedback is good for continuous improvement but I see too much complaining by people that seem to play this game as their job in early access. Pretty crazy to me. Cheers. Comparing to other Arpgs the poe2 is significantly better.
I’ve been playing ssf after work and I’m doing fine but I got 2k hours in poe1. There’s a lot of different focus shifted on new sustain mechanics in poe2 to remove some of the build bloat from the previous game. Which makes it a little more restrictive right now but as they update it will open up and evolve into something better than the previous. At some point people don’t remember this is a ggg game and you’re not entitled to what you should know and what you’re expected to know and at what time it should be known. Your deaths are the equalizer to make you take a step back and ask what do I need to do to improve.
I been honest i havent push out of act 1 yet bc im playing with all the low lvl stuff first.tring all the class's.. framing boss's uniques to see what they drop... mostly playing multiple witchs atm... playing with button rotation and things.... im haveing fun... i enjoy that its hard to the point i needbto pay attention and not zonk out slaying hords.... i wana get there eventually but i don't want that to be the whole game... i wana earn it... i like being checked.. but on that note.... REMOVE ALL ON DEATH EFFECTS... OR MAKE THEM ALL VISUAL ONLY!.... GD!!.... GGG...FFS!
losing XP in a game is almost never fun. maybe when you're 16 and can play 18 hours/day it gives you a sense of accomplishment... for most others, it just feels like a big waste of your time - especially if you're in the rinse/repeat section of the endgame.
Just a heads up DM, thought I heard you say you created a new character to try and hunt down a monolith. I just got a second character up to maps and it seems as though the Atlas progression and Quest status is shared between the account; just to bring it to your attention if you weren't aware. Great objective perspective on the review, as per usual, keep up the great work.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey, thanks for checking out my thoughts! You and your community here are pretty cool. Have continued to play after the patch and I'm enjoying it more now, will do another video after the holiday
curious to hear what you think about recent changes, hope it solved some of the experience you had. hope you enjoy endgame and always down to chat cheers!
@@dmdiablo4try to roll in lag spike from server... it's impossible...
roll perfect is basicaly against Viper in A3, versus poison javelins. One tap in normal dif with 1.200 life and 35% chaos res, 30% phys reduction (ranger).
Anyway great video again, from You guys. :)
you just gotta gear out brotha, if ur having fun then try and use trade. Plenty of high res gear for 1-5 ex. GGs
LOL - People bullying Paul into continuing to play PoE 2 is hilarious to me (not saying that's what DM did in this vid, he was actually pretty fair). It reminds me of the early days of D4 when *EVERYONE* praised it to the high heavens until Actman gave his negative review. Suddenly, everyone was like "Wait a sec... Yeah, he's right. D4 bad, bruh. D4 BAD!!!" 🤣
@@bybybirdybirdnub got no exalted in my campaign, I'm in A3 cruel almost viper again...
But I add things I dislike: 1) lost over 1 mil gold on refunds = too expensive 2) no ascendancy change 3) if lag (and You die) and crashed, You are out of party map, because You died there 4) insane difficulty for A2 final boss (too high life) and viper (poison javelins), Black Jaw (one shot from his third slam) 5) one death on map and You are out??? 6) small UI in character selection, can see just 5-6 characters etc.
I'll probably try Huntress later, but I'm done if no big change.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to hear that 90% of players aren't even at cruel yet. We don't give ourselves enough credit in terms of just how much we play and understand games in general.
i will say most ppl are struggling with the story because they are waiting for items to drop that wont drop LOL they need to buy the gear from vedor but that requires to much brain power for this tiktok generation
Noone wants to help anyone. And if they do they trash you if ur a ssf player. And ive tried 100hrs of poe 2 and ive not even made it past act 2. Because u cant get enough currency and farming campaigns doesnt give u anything on repeating it. Ive also been trying to make my own builds. And it feels impossible
@@idolized no tiktok gen people play this game mate, all mid 30s
@@jr_Linux100 hours and still not past act 2?That’s unacceptable but don’t give up hope, you shall overcome this.
@@jr_Linux not sure why you're stuck. You can easily get to cruel without having to even look at currencies.
When Tassi says "It's nothing like the game that came before", he means the campaign, not POE1. He's not saying that mapping in POE2 isn't like mapping in POE1, he's saying that POE2 mapping feels like a completely different game than the POE2 he was playing before getting to maps.
Yeah, Darth had good points but misunderstood Paul on that and also what Paul meant by "rewarding" when Darth brought up he didn't mention loot. I feel what Paul was getting at there was you're playing hard content to progress maps, get better loot and then all to do harder content, but overall you're just struggling to maintain and not hitting any new power spikes where you get a leg up on the next stage of content. Instead it stays as hard, or gets harder, and either you push through to maintain where you are at or you fail and loose a bunch of that supposed progress. Thing is that is the endgame as of now, and it's fair to say maybe that type of brutal endgame isn't cut out for Paul as he wants one where he can at times dominate.
@@TheBolondron POE1 mapping is infinity better imo
@@youtoobz146poe1 is 10 years old, poe2 is in early access . What you said is true but a bit unfair imo
Yeah I personally bounced off PoE1 3 seperate times because the 1 button builds, "shit RNG or Trade" for everything, and endgame builds clearing the entire screen of 1000 enemies instantly. I loved D4 at the start and PoE2 during the campaign when it was tough, I had to pay attention and make decisions against the 10 mobs I see on screen, and the bosses are challenging but fun. By the time you get to end game, it feels like it wants you to have a PoE1 "clear the whole screen instantly" kind of build, and I miss the slow, more methodical pace the game had for 90% of the campaign.
@@Savage-DestinyThanks for taking the time to explain how I feel as well lmao
really feels like the issue is just time loss in the late game. like yeah I could grind through it but the ratio of time spent on it isnt rewarding enough. seems fixable for full release for sure
Agreed, the rate at which you progress and get better slows down soo much and its mostly due to stuff thats just not fun. Dying and losing XP + a map, Bricking gear when you roll bad stats ect. Games great, best ARPG imo, I think end game just needs to be more fun. Not just grindy.
@@Deciphersoul same, i enjoy the hell out of the game untill i reach maps around lvl65/70 and i get bored and make a new character.
I kinda disagree. The core design of the game is really self-contradictory, and I think that's the core of the problem. They want difficult, mechanically rich boss fights that you learn through trial and error, but then give you 1 attempt at them.
They want slower, more deliberate combat, but then bring in PoE1 style enemies that reward one-shot zoomy playstyles. Half of the Warrior's melee skills are unusable because of how slow they are.
They said they want to move away from one-button builds, but most of the top builds so far are basically one damage skill + curse.
It's like 1/2 the dev team is just making PoE1 refresh, and the other half is trying to make a Souls-like.
yea ive come to that conclusion too after GGG only provided a single portal for a Breachstone. 300 splinters on SSF isn't exactly a quick acquisition. Maybe for some, but not for my character currently. A single fucking portal for a boss fight. Ridiculous.
I'll keep testing the other classes instead through the campaign. That's a good time :). Endgame needs to be put back in the oven.
@@luierdaneenpamper3877 I'm on my 3rd character now, the acts (especially act 2 to early act 3) is the best feeling arpg I've played but the mapping experience is the opposite.
I'm on the same boat with this guy. Once I reached maps, enjoyment of the game went down significantly. Cannot stand one-shots. There is no crafting system, just the gambling system. It's the same thing as rolling random armor from the shop, but you just roll random affixes instead of the whole armor. Not only that, you get no currency to work with. But my main issue are the trials. Absolutely hate them and if they don't change them, I do not plan on coming back.
Yep, sanctum/sekhemas is the most frustrating game mode unless your character is designed for it. Requiring honor resistance relics is a bad idea, all it does is make it stupidly difficult for newer players. Crafting 100% reliant on luck also needs to be adjusted, and let us overwrite runes. We’ve played the stubborn way long enough, I’m ready for changes
I think the issue you may be glossing over, is that grinding a work week worth of hours to have minimal progress, and functional strength gain, all while having the chance it can be ripped away with a poor death is pretty unmotivating.
Everyone stops playing ARPG’s at different points, but normally it’s when the grind pain outweighs the players next big gain dopamine. And this game has set that bar fairly early due to its punishment for most people
To be fair it's not really that bad. I do think it needs improvement, but even in current state it's still pretty good. I mostly just think they could make it a lot better and more rewarding while keeping the challenge intact.
Any PoE leagues I've played I've stopped when the stash becomes impossible to manage, I stopped PoE2 endgame after around 50 maps with loads of stash space left. I'm still having fun running other characters through the acts but that's because I have enough gold/currency from the 50 maps to actually buy an upgrade if I see one.
@@Syaniiti This. This is my biggest problem with the game right now - map sustain. I am spending all my gold and mats pumping maps that I might just die in and end up with absolutely nothing and have to run some terrible t1 or t2 maps for ages dropping no upgrades to maybe get another shot at a t5+. Besides making endgame deaths less punishing they also have to pump higher tier map drop rates for me to care about running it.
And yet so many people that also grinder a week have fire builds and are clearing content and are making meaningful progression.
Is there a chance its not the game, but the way it's being played/approached?
Is it even a remote possibility?
@@zero_grav_original The people you're talking about are streamers/content creators because the vast majority are NOT having that experience. The vast majority are still in campaign and haven't even broken into maps yet.
he wasn't comparing poe2 to poe1... he was comparing "poe2 endgame" to "poe2 campaign". his point was they felt like two very different games with different rules. rules that, on the face of it in EA, don't respect the player's time with the amount of grind, rng, oneshots, death punishments and grind. In the poe2 campaign... in the same game, all of those aspects are not nearly as "unfun". (i think you missed this cos you paused in the middle of his comparison which gave you the wrong impression).
I thought his opinion was pretty darn fair, and entirely devoid of controversy all things considered. thanks for reacting to it, i wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
I thought this in the beginning.
"there's no way, we will combo off all these skills late game"
Then if you watch end game videos, it's the opposite of what the devs wanted
My unpopular opinion is that as a casual player, I hate the trade aspect. It’s interesting but having to trade to play the game is not why I play the game. I want to get excited when I find a good item, not go shopping to make the game easier or else I can’t continue the game myself
SSF
Good thing you don't have to trade.
Try solo self found. Also might want to wait for full release if you feel it isn't balanced well for that kind of experience yet.
You actually can select "solo self-found" as a game mode on character creation. Also a huge majority of content creators/streamers for the game are SSF as well, you're not alone in that regard. The shopping thing is definitely overblown, a lot of your gear will be picked up off the ground, you can use vendors to fill slots that low roll, but it's certainly not necessary.
There are several mobs worth farming for crafting supplies/drops and you can chain farm them using the checkpoint feature (respawn at checkpoint next to a miniboss/rare monster) if you need to farm something out. Maps will provide an over-abundance of loot to go through once you get through the campaign. (I have 2 chars in maps)
To anyone suggesting SSF, it's not always a good solution. The game is balanced primarily around trade, the devs will look at how much and how fast people are gaining power in that environment and then balance difficulty around it. You're just making the grind 10x longer if you choose not to engage with it, which is fine if you want a grindier game, but the base game is already grindy enough for a lot of people.
They should do what Last Epoch did and make it so that you get increased drop rate if you choose to play SSF. They did a survey and the result was that half of ARPG players prefer trade, the other half don't. Right now GGG just doesn't give a fuck about the second half because most of the core devs are in the first half. I mean, in their infamous trade manifesto they stated that an item only matters when it's valued by other people, which is ???. Maybe my item matters to me because it's what I found, what I crafted, and what helped me beat that difficult boss. I couldn't care less what other people think about it.
I think you missed his point. His point is not that he doesn't like dying. He says that the punishment for dying (loss of XP, map rewards, progress etc) is too frustrating to him and makes any progress impossible. TBH I have the same problem. I did kill all bosses but I was dying A LOT on them. (yes skill issue) If I'm not able to die once in maps then....
then this game isnt for him, diablo 4 is down the road
Then he should learn how the game works and improve his character to die less ofter. Seems like a skill issue.
I think it's a pretty reasonable criticism tbh, I think the difficulty is fine but the punishment for death is much higher than it should be. I wouldn't be surprised if that gets adjusted while keeping the raw difficulty the same
@@jarad9946yall really need help.
@@jarad9946 That's a piss poor excuse for such heavy handed game design
Maybe someone said this before. The main issue for me and maybe other "casual" players that have a "9 to 5" job, maybe a family, is that you have a limited time to play per day, per week. If you die once to a one-shot in an endgame map and to get back you have to play during several days, it feels like the game is not rewarding and not respecting your time. Not every player is very skilled.
I think it would be smarter to have more tries per map, but loot tiers based on how many deaths it took to finish the map. 1 try 100% loot, 2, 85%, up to 5 let's say, where you get 40% of loot. You could choose to go on with diminished loot, or restart for full loot. What do you think?
I love it
I personally like having the pressure of actually losing the map. Both poe1 and Last Epoch give you more chances, path of exile 2 just isn't for everyone.
@@Curiomerc Then they better have a 1b marketing budget like blizzard because they are going to need a whole new player base as POE1 players drop this like a hot rock.
how is it that if you die, that you have to play several days to get back??? Haven't seen this at all, a single time in this game. If you die in a map, you lose that 1 map, but you always have 5 or 6 others sitting in your inventory.
If youre talking about pinnacle bosses, then i dont understand how you are even at that level yet if youre busy with a 9-5 job and a family, and even if you are, you probably have enough currency anyway to buy the materials to attempt the boss again.
@@krom5851 Hi, I'm nowhere near endgame yet. I just follow some streamers and content creators. And for me it looks like I really will have a bad time after reaching endgame.
I would like to see more people critical about the game like Paul Tassi, there’s a lot of toxic positivity surrounding poe2 and while it’s okay to love the game to death people should take a step back and be vocal about the things people dislike otherwise the game will never reach its full potential
The thing is about what he said was just what kripp said. He said he didn't play even an hour of end game he also just says things that are 100% incorrect about maps. Like ya it is hard and a little unfair but he didn't even really try it is the thing.
Well, it doesnt help half the people say get gud, or mention something about D4, my personal gripe is that optimization is a big issue still especially for console.... maps it still drops frame rates and many other bugs when doing co op, than doesnt help people saying "early access" excuse..... than it seems GGG is ignoring consoles all together once again... i mean ive reported a few bugs besides the optimization but no one is responding in the forums... so what is exactly the point of reporting things.. when there is no talk or mention of help or at least a fix for it... i mean i got my 30 bucks worth of content but to other 30dollars is alot and pretty curious why poe2 doesnt have that many negative reviews because i know for a fact if other games came out half baked even early access it would be review bombed....
Toxic positivity?! Does the game need improvement from an early access state- yes but is it already a fantastic game- yes. Being positive about an amazing game is t toxic wtf are u talking about.
I enjoyed my time playing the game. Great sound design/music. Great vibe. Pretty cool/challenging bosses. Loved the WASD mvt and thats now ruined all other arpgs for me. UI needs LOTS of work, very unfriendly new poe player experience. All in all I’d give it a 7.2/10. Its got a long way to go.
@@Mrpanino123 it becomes toxic when people share valid critical views of the game and are attacked because of it
its a cost vs reward issue and how you value your personal time
If i'm not rewarded what I would want for my time then I will find something else to do
the trials are guilty of this.
Yeah, losing 2 hrs of xp is one thing. You also lose the map and items dropped on the ground. That's triple punishment compared to one in PoE1.
@@meganesenpai it's more proof GGG's claims of being inspired by souls are just all the aesthetics, none of the actual design lessons. fromsoft was never this punishing in souls, people like GGG read that into souls and sallied forth w/ bad game design, claiming souls as their inspiration and dirtying souls' name along the way by proxy.
@@meganesenpai At least the ground won't have anything of value anyway, as opposed to PoE1 where you occasionally got a good item =)
Heck, my warrior got his 3rd weapon in act3, my witch upgraded from a level 4 to a level 57 weapon because there was nothing better in the shops or drops, my ranger actually upgraded her weapon the most, but I spent all my currency gathered up to that time to make it like I got something besides level ups in the campaign.
there has always been an easy way to separate the people who do value one death and done situations- it is and always has been called hardcore. Single deaths on boss fights that require learning mechanics will make a person, literally, a worse player, reason why; they will outsource the materiel and experience to a third party neckbeard to know what is coming and will force the majority of players into meta builds. one death maps and bosses were a shit idea and the game devs never should have green lit it in the release of the game reguardless of what theyre calling it: early access a beta, 90 percent complete.... LOL
I just don't like the concept of losing XP when I die, having died and failed and having to try again is enough of a penalty for me without also losing progress... as soon as I am losing progress by playing the game I very quickly lose any desire to play. Be difficult, kill me and make me try again that is all fine, just don't remove XP because I did not know the mechanic yet.
Genuinely curious as someone who's not caught up high enough to lose XP, how much do you actually lose?
@@andoryus 10%
@@andoryus about 10% of a level
10% on all level after you reach maps
@@PP-ck9px damn that's crazy
guys got a point. this is how a casual player base will feel. dm is not casual he is a seasoned arpg player who is making his career by playing these games for hours a day. this isnt the same for him as it is for other players.
There is more casual players than hardcore ones, telling casuals not to play would ruin the player base
@@godwishyoutube sorry but it doesnt work that way. if you cant pull in casual players your game will fail
get filtered in silence, d4 is there for u
@nicr1159 poe1 is doing fine without u players, dont worry buddy
@@jjwardyjj poe1 is doing fine without u players, dont worry buddy
His issue with one shots is not that you are one shot, its that you can't just redo the boss or hop back into the map, and the fact that you could in the campaign
This is what should be changed is as written in an article, imagine dying to Malenia and that’s it, you can’t fight against her anymore, it’s bad and should change
@@Dexxxterityit works exactly the way you want in the campaign. Elden Ring doesn’t have a farming based endgame, so this comparison is nonsense.
@deanjohnson8233 ok let's use borderlands 3 as an example then.
Imagine you progress through the area of Eden-6 to get to Gravelord. You die to him and lose that entire boss area as a result. That would suck.
Not a complete 1:1 comparison but losing a farming boss in bl3 or any borderlands game would suck big time. Not getting to redo the boss because of a single death sucks.
@@thegreycrusader in my opinion endgame maps and bosses should be up to as many times as you can, cause at the end of the day if you don’t have the right gear and stats you won’t be able to pass through them anyway, this way you can tweak your build to see what works the best and improve, they should also allow players to respec their runes and change their ascendencies in the next patch, that would be a huge win
The game being really hard is fine, as long as it feels fair.
which right now its not...
Some part are, some aint. The honor system was so bad and unfair toward melee user it got a big change recently.
@@NapFloridian it's mostly fair
@@jokerledger5400 I know I still have to get back to my Sorc...
@@Ethan_Fel depending what class you play... yep gotcha
everyone says don't quit just make your character better.... well I have 90 hours in and have not dropped a single greater jewlers orb so Im stuck trying to run maps on a 3 link since I can't afford an orb at today's costs and they aren't dropping so I just keep dying and losing waystones and not getting new ones. and unlike POE1 that had a chase to complete every map, there is no reason beyond gear chase and boss killing to do end game. And if you can't work on gear and you are not up for boss killing, then there is no reason to play end game. The other mechanics are too overturned IMO. I tried delirium on T1 map and was killed 5 seconds after walking through the mirror after getting swarmed by like 15-20 monsters, same with breach, and ritual. I have seen less than 6 essences in my entire play time and only 3 strongboxes, so that is basically non-existent feature of the game. there just isn't any reason to play.
They changed boss attacks in end game by adding new mechanics, or changing old one to make them more challenging. So you still need to learn them even after fighting them in campaign.
You can vaal orb your gems to get a chance at a 4th socket. tooks me 5 attempts to get two 4-links in total. Pretty good stop gap until you get the greater orbs. Remember to not do this on your quality upgraded skills though.
@@mihasai3700 Thanks for the tip, I will give that a shot, didn't realize you could do that with a VAAL.
😂
Try allocating the atlas passive in the top left, it grants a 40% increase in socket curreny in certain biomes. This includes jewelers orbswasntI wasn't having any drop for about 100 maps. Since allocating this I've had about 3 in 20 maps
i found one greater jewel orb, almost missed it. funny thing though, my character nearly feels weaker now cause it jacked up the mana cost of that skill to unsustainable levels with the additional support gem.
You said in one part about getting resistances and HP and you'll be fine, I agree. But then you said that "before the patch you were oneshot for chaos damage", I have 68% chaos resist plus the charm and I get oneshotted all the time. Especially the snake packs, which appear and they're already spitting all at once and you die.
This literally happens in POE too. I think most people feel powerful in the campaign because they don't have the death penalty and they can just scale power with little investment on defensive stats. They get to maps and they can't properly pivot their builds.
Don't think those snakes do chaos damage no?
@@shiki325 Poison is Chaos damage.
I'm ok with one shots existing, though they should be rare, it would be hard to get rid of them entirely either way. Before the recent patch it was definitely not in a good state. It's better now from what I've played, but it'll need some continual tuning.
This is also not true for each class. There are specific patterns of defense for each character that slot you into a particular play style for the endgame. I see a lot of mercs without the correct balance of armor/evade due to bad advice. That's why they get one shot... The evade/accuracy calculation is extremely important in cases like this, where evade is exponentially more useful at max range for example (blind effect further multiplies this). This isn't even mentioned on guides I've seen.
Ok, wall of text incoming. But I have a theory around super hard hitting enemies, which is about sustain. To clarify, Im not talking about red telegraphed abilities that are supposed to be dodged, but everything else that chunks you for half your hp out of nowhere.
I feel they feel forced to create difficulty through that because they make sustain way too easily accessible. Sure, its been heavily toned down from PoE1 but it is still the case. One culprit is somehow they have still made flasks meaningless in the end game because their recovery cant keep up with life pools at that point. If flasks are irrelevant, we will find ways to sustain with other means.
Which leads to a situation where if you can sustain back to full life in 3 seconds through infinite means (regen/leech), then there is no difficulty through attrition from mistakes. You cant die from making a dozen mistakes leading you to having no flask charges left cause...well the flask is pointless and you recover from means that never runs out. So they have to hit you with trucks for you to feel things are difficult.
Make sustain sources actually able to run out even at the top end and then difficulty can come from you making too many mistakes, having to cover them up with flask overuse, which cant last forever (if balanced). Then enemies dont have to hit like trucks. One random hit shouldn't matter then, but if you get hit by 20 mobs, then it will. Which is your fault at that point.
Rant over. :)
One thing that we need to think about when people "quit" is that time is important, whenever people feel they are wasting their time or the game is not respecting their time they will drop stuff. Plus there are A LOT of other games at the moment so this being Early Access it makes sense that people would rather just wait till the game improves and then give it a try again.
Just because someone quit for now, doesn't mean they eventually won't come back later!
Also surprised that Darth really didn't get his point on comparing the mapping experience vs campaign, it's pretty clear...
The dude just said he stopped having fun. Not sure what this argument is about. I agree with the majority of his complaints. It's not fun in endgame. I do not enjoy maps
The story is fun and trying out each class which doesnt take long to get a semi good build going and at least doing the 1st asend , but once you get to maps... especially on console it sucks.....
I think the argument is most people are normal players. I’m a serious gamer in act 3 in normal difficulty.
@@Mrpanino123 define "serious gamer."
If they take 15% of my ex upon death in thr end game once i reach the end game, i will quit it in no time. That's just horrible in my opinion. I'm fairly casual player and am not looking into playing a game with no progression in sight.
There is a punishment in death for the game, but progression is possible if you can overcome the challenge and build a strong character. XP loss might be too high combined with waystone loss but some form of punishment is fundamental for POE.
@@wholesomedom I personally don't mind any death punishment other than XP loss. Like I said earlier, I'm a fairly casual player and will make mistakes. There will be times where I won't play for a week or two. If after a long break, I come back to the game, die and lose 3 hours worth of XP, I will log out instantly. I'm sure there are many casuals who would do the exact same thing.
I think you, as a dev, will leave over 50% of potential audience because of this mechanic.
I am not at the end game yet and I absolutely love this game and believe it is the best ARPG I have ever played. However, losing XP over and over will make me quit. Just like I did with PoE 1 once I got to a point where I couldn't progress anymore.
@@JohnDBarcaFan i agree with you, but maybe to cheer you up a bit, to lose 3h of exp you would have to be above lvl 90 and if you are as casual as you say, then, with no disrespect, but you will not reach that point. in lower levels one map will give you above 25% in exp. for poe2 to be punishing you have to sink a lot of time, so i dont thin you will have this problem
@@JohnDBarcaFan You're always going to have exp loss that is never going anywhere.
@@Deminese2 there are tons of people complaining about it and GGG have been taking feedback a lot over the passed 2 weeks... i wouldnt be surprised if they change it soon... and as well they should.. its a horrible punishment system.
I want the challenge, but losing the precursor tablet effects, and the league mechanics, and the boss, and the waystone, and the XP all at once for a single death makes me feel like playing empty low tier maps.... and by that I mean quit the game because empty maps get boring. maybe its time i finally played elden ring boys
Elden Ring is amazing. Have fun!
I think you'll enjoy it, lots of fun to be had in that game.
Elden ring is awesome
I'm finally buying Elden Ring today haha.
Agreed. It’s why I just rolled a new character to lvl and experiment with instead of run maps until there’s changes.
People are overly positive about POE2 and overly negative about D4. The online hive mind is so unbalanced regarding this game.
You seem to have it the other way around😅
I completely understand what he's saying about the Dodge roll with it being the only way to avoid damage from some attacks regardless of how much effort you have put into defences. That part is not fun at all
I'll be honest, I have 2,500 hours on POE1, and I did relatively the same thing. The overtuned honor damage in Sanctum put a bad taste in my mouth for monk/melee, and then by the time I got to maps, I had already been asking myself "am I having fun?" The answer was a pretty resounding "no" when 1-portal punishment kicked in that psychological effect you mentioned.
Now try to do one portal death with a friend. Oss are 1 of the two of you will be doing nothing but waiting for the other to finish the map for 1/3 of the night. PoE 2 is AWFUL with friends.
Quoting hours ion POE 1 like it means anything is weird. What does that matter? this is an entirely different game/approach.
Would genuinely be ok with losing maps etc as long as I didn’t lose xp losing xp is so crazy to me
why lose anything? Punishment beyond dying is really really stupid...WoW's was bad enough that it should never be done again. Having to redo a boss fight is enough...its trial by error and having punishments beyond that is typically never fun except for people willing to commit the time to overcoming that challenge. It should always be for hardcore challenges NOT for the base game itself.
@@AndresColumbusExactly! Grinding back hours of lost progress just for it to happen again is a huge slap in the face and is entirely disrespectful of the players time. Dying and doing a run back is enough, but losing EXP, Maps, Tokens, etc is enough fo make someone put the game down for a long time. That's not something anybody, dev or player, should want in their game
Exactly. Honestly, I'll just play the game until I die in endgame. When that happens, I'm not about to regrind hours of something I have already done just because it was taken away from me. After that, I'll just stop playing the game.
Why not just give you gear when u die, or a level worth of xp to help you along. Buff resists for 10 minutes when u die, that stacks.
@@AndresColumbus i seen this mechanic before in other games where you lose xp once you die but the resolution was that if you get ressed by someone else in the area you dont lose anything. So basically the game punishes if you go solo. Which kinda makes sense in a multiplayer game. But not sure if this could be implemented here as majority of the player base seems to hype on going solo...
Must admit - dad gamer here, so less time than I’d like to play. Heading towards end of act II and I’m finding the trials really just too hard as a warrior. Yeah, potential skill issue, but sheesh I’ve died more times than I can count and no closer to beating the trials.
I wish you luck on the final boss🫡
I would suggest moving on for now and just doing it later when you're stronger.
Don’t try the trials until you’re into the second play of the acts. You’re too underpowered and no defences. Even that later trials, I hadn’t got my 3rd until I was lvl 81
Same...I'm in act II and the oddess thing to me are the enemies. I struggle more with the stupid hyenas than some of the bosses and elites. I haven't even bothered with the trials after seeing the complaints.
The Trials are way overtuned. At least the first ones you get as Quest Items are super hard and should be way easier to get a better Chance to learn it. After that it can ramp up, no problem
I get what he means about the dying in maps stuff. Like in campaign they want you to die over and over trying to kill the bosses(they said so in an interview) but when you get to maps you just not supposed to die anymore? Like they set it up so you can die as many times as you need(checkpoints that refill your flasks and hp) then just strip that away in maps and late game bosses. Just makes no sense really its like teaching someone to swim, the first day you ease them into shallow water and they can leave when they want then the next day you throw them into the ocean with no life jacket or anything.
I’m liking Poe 2, but my god this community. I’ve never seen so much gatekeeping and ‘you just suck because you haven’t spent enough time on it.’ Literally the dumbest arguments I’ve ever seen from a community.
Not everyone has time to dump 100 hours on the first week or even month it’s out. A lot of people that need to grow up around these parts.
Sure you havent 😂😂
It’s literally how you get better at ANYTHING…put more time in…. Pretty easy to comprehend
@@Artistoic555 right. But to say a person sucks because they haven’t no lifed the game is absolutely mind boggling. People literally dogging on people for not being a hardcore player. The gatekeeping is just … weird
@@webdesigntutz thank you for proving my point
@ true, you definitely have a point
I feel like if when you die and you loose the whole map you shouldnt also lose EXP, one problem I have as someone who isnt very good at ARPGs and just enjoys to play casually I always find that in POE I get to high tier maps and start dying a lot and losing EXP and it kills the experience for me so I stop playing, its so much worse in POE 2 because not only do I lose EXP I lose everything. I died to a boss and when I redid the map there was no boss, I just turned off the game at that point. One thing that is keeping me playing is that I am getting currency, I like that exalted orbs are kind of the main currency at least in early map tiers.
Now imagine playing with friends. 3 of you on the map and one of you die. Either the other two also leave the map, or some person just sits there waiting to play the game again. Now imagine two die. Two peoples time is just being wasted while the other finishes the map. It's a horrible online game experience for people that aren't just no lifing without friends.
If you are dying a lot in a game, why should you get to progress into later stuff? High tier maps and pinnacle bosses may not be approachable for everyone, but I don’t understand why they should be. I can’t make it through Elden Ring and Dark Souls, but I still think they are amazing games and I loved playing them. I don’t care that I couldn’t beat it. That difficulty is there for other people and to give me something to strive for.
@@deanjohnson8233 I never said anything about the difficulty being a bad thing just that when I start to die a lot and there is no way to progress for me because I am bad at the game then I stop playing the game, believe it or not player retention is important to the the longevity of a game, not everyone may have the same experience as me but I think maybe some do.
@@deanjohnson8233the chances to “get gud” disappear when you die is the problem.
@@deanjohnson8233 My dude, it's a fukin' video game. It's not trying to earn a job promotion. If it's not fun, it's just a bad game. Like I could boot up a hentai game and go rub one out and simply put have more fun. I'd rate PoE 2 somewhere below a mediocre hentai game.
I think his point about Malenia is that if Elden Ring was like PoE2, you'd have to redo the area leading up to Malenia every time you attempt her.
Elden ring is solo game, this was supposed to be coop. My friend dying and me have to choose if Ill be mean and run a map while they cant even see what I do and need to wait for me is a no brainer decision... Literal anti coop game. And i dont play solo games unless the story is exceptional so this one goes to garbage can.
@@oszaszi 99% of players will be playing PoE2 solo. This is not a coop game. It's a game that has the option for coop for those that wanna do it.
A coop game is something like Call of Duty or It Takes Two where 99% if not 100% play with others via team matching or lan.
@@oszaszibad take to call a game co-op when it isn’t.
You don’t have to in the campaign, just like you don’t have to in Elden Ring. There is no endgame in Elden Ring so this seems like a useless comparison to me.
@@deanjohnson8233 wym? You basically do have to do it in the campaign as everything respawns when you die unless you managed to make it to the boss fight and thus respawn at checkpoint right outside boss arena, you have to re-kill a lot to continue exploring the zone till you find the next objective/exit.
Also might as well consider the dlc as Elden Ring endgame since you have to get damn far in the game to even unlock the ability to do the dlc content.
Having mobs respawn on death is kind of a vibe killer and additionally as melee I find the honour system too stressful, so I'm waiting for the patch.
sadly theyd just add more honor and wouldnt get rid of it, but remember you can add buffs to each run you do... i forgot about them but they help... ran a monk and warrior, though stress full did it lol...
Losing XP is just a dirty move honestly. It doesn't feel good and it doesn't make me not want to die more. I already don't want to die. That's the point of a game, not to die. On the other hand the point of a game is to make me happy. Losing XP doesn't make me happy, quite the opposite. Making me waste my time is the quickest way to make me do something else. I think they need to get rid of the xp penalty altogether. Losing the path is plenty of penalty. Last Epoch had the same map penalty but no XP penalty. Had it had the XP penalty I would have quit the game a lot sooner.
100 % agreed. THis mechanic is the worst invention in all of gaming. It made me quit POE 1 and I hope they change it for POE 2 or I will probably quit too (or at least never care for endgame or play past lvl 70).
This is what I run into every league in poe1. Once I hit 90+ maybe I make it to 91. Maybe 95. But I don’t enter a boss or corrupted map unless I have no XP on my bar. Nothing worse than watching your half full xp bar go back to zero because something oneshots you in a map
They won't get rid of it, 99.9% sure. It's part of their design vision, and honestly, I do think it's good for the game, and makes getting to a high level or lvl 100 meaningful and race-able. I do think they shouldn't have increased the XP penalty to 15% from the 10% it was in PoE1, considering it is also harder to reach lvl 100 even if you don't die once compared to poe1.
I understand why they added the one life thing, and it's bc they don't want people tactically dying on purpose to reset the the maps and farm them with a good waystone. Obviously all they needed to do to fix this is remove mob respawning for maps... As others have said, there are just way too many punishments. The loss of EXP thing just needs to be removed, nothing justifies that. I can live with the waystones and map modifiers being lost, that seems like a fair gamble, but only if we get all 6 lives/portals. And FFS LET US REVIVE OUR FRIENDS! Unless you're the partly leader you can't start up another map, and no one wants to wait around after they die while everyone else tries to finish the map without them... Who the hell thought this was a good idea? Especially when you consider how easy it is to die when you play with other people, as the mobs are much stronger and you can't see a damn thing bc your buddies are covering the screen with fire, Ice, lightning, minions, and all kinds of other crap.
Also, I completely disagree that they "fixed" the one-shots. Sure I may not be maxed in my defenses, but I think it's pretty lame that you're basically being forced to build as a tank no matter what class/spec you are... It severely limits the flexibility of our builds, and the fact that "crafting" gear with the stats and defensives we need is completely up to RNGeesus makes it very annoying to get geared properly. For example, It's a very bad feeling when I'm expected to replace some of my rare-find items (which are arguably just as important) for some chaos resist...
I'm obsessed with this game, it's some of the most fun I've ever had , but I really hope they change these things quickly, or we're going to see a lot of people leave, eventually including me.
He basically just says what Kripp said
The part that's probably the main issue that's fueling the hate is when he said that you have to work back up towards your map when you're in the highest tiers. Just a misunderstanding he made from Kripp's video
I think he is referring to loosing a higher tier map and having to run lower tiers until you get another high one to drop
2 people can have similar opinions
Just wait until you die in a t15 map and have to spend hours farming another one. It's a valid complaint that everyone is going to have, and youll know instantly what we are talking about when it happens to you.
@@sethjones6711which is just a skill issue and not understanding how anything works.
I’m getting burnt out because of terrible luck. It feels bad not getting any new upgrades after a VERY long time.
trade site has a lot of cheap upgrades lmao
Take all of that currency and trade it dude
@@fmalch1209what if they are SSF? game isn't even balanced for that at all.
@gustavogamez8373 what if you don't know about trading because the game never tells you how to do it, and if you ask, you are met with "git gud" and "skill issue".
Also trading 1 orb for a huge upgrade is pretty bad loot design. Why bother picking up any items if you can search for the stats you want and upgrade that way. I've played 100+ hours and have found around 5 items that were actually upgrades from a drop on the ground. (Not counting low level moves from blue items to a Yellow with 3 or 4 stats).
Vendor roulette each level and hoping for orbs to drop isn't engaging loot design.
@@gustavogamez8373"just use the buggy trading website because the devs absolutely refuse to implement a system most modern games have a in game trade house"
Someone doesn’t like something you do = “Controversy”!!
XP loss is a really archaic concept, to the point that arguably the most ruthless MMO got rid of it, Eve Online. It was their bread and butter, literally, you die, lose xp which means you need to be subbed to retrain the skills you lost, it's literally how they made money, on top of losing your ship and fitting. So if the game whos motto is "Harden the fuck up" got rid of xp loss, why is it here?
Idk man, the more I play the more I lean to this game being straight up overhyped ass.
The problem is not that we lose some exp , the problem is when u get to jusing and trying to make money , 1 death means that you lose all , all that things u put on your map , all drops that u had on your last map and so on , no one wants to grind blue maps with nothing just to see 1-2 exalts on some luck.
Maps are still too big for no reason , movement speed how it is now just feels bad .
If you lose significant experience at end game for dying. I absolutely will not be playing the end game. That’s just not fun IMO.
Its not much at all
pretty sure when he said "not like the game before it", he meant the poe2 campaign.. not poe1.. *edit* - then the misunderstanding continued lol. DM really did not get what dude was trying to say
I think part of what might be happening is that just because something can be done or can be learned, it has to feel like it respects your time. Right now - for a lot of the reasons mentioned, it feels like it doesn't.
One of the beautiful parts of original PoE was how many ways and styles a person could play with. This feels.... far too limited in viable choices. And while we could learn that, the question is: can we extract *more* fun from something else? In some people's cases, that will be yes. This seems to target a very specific, hypercompetitive crowd that feels forced to continue. But for anyone who is less committed to spending a full work week per week to essentially break even just to say we passed a digital challenge.... yeah.
My warrior is eternally stuck on the fire guy in act 3. The DPS check. I built a tank. I can stand next to bosses and keep their attention probably 60-70% of the fight and soak all their hits. I rarely have to dodge roll out of anything. I can clear maps with ease but my boss damage is nothing short of atrocious. I don't get it. I can pull 2-3 screens worth of enemies on a map at my level and blow them all up in a few hits. Map clearing is incredibly easy. But it takes me a year to kill a boss. I cannot beat the fire boss solo no matter how hard I try. I tried to have a friend help me and we still couldn't do it because of the ridiculous nerfing of players when you group up.
That's another thing I hate. I feel great playing solo but as soon as I join a group I immediately notice my game change and I feel at least 50% weaker. It feels awful to group up which I think will really hurt the game long term.
Find an Invoker monk. Just dropping a bell and auto attacking it will kill any story boss.
I don't think the idea of closing permanently a map if you die is a correct solution in an ARPG. Making mistake should never be impossible to fix. This might cost you an other key or give you exp lost... but closing it for good never to be reopen again is a little cruel.
thats not what happens you can run the map again , but without the rewards that were in it on the first time
He wasnt referring to poe1...he said he was new to poe, he was referring to base game of poe2 compared to end game of poe2
Im in act 3 cruel and haven't found a item upgrade since probably act 3 normal. It seems like the itemization just falls off a cliff.
Because you are suppose to try and craft upgrades. Not just have handed to you because you killed a mob that was yellow
@damian02161986 oh I've been picking stuff up and crafting. But when my act 3 normal Xbow does 145 physical and has ias and +2 skills, I'm going to have a hard time replacing that. Same with chest. I have a 250 evasion/Armour chest with 103 life and fire and cold resist on it. What do you want me to do? Replace it with a 350 evade piece with 30 life? That's just how it's has gone and I guarantee I'm not alone.
Edit: I'm SSF, I know i could go trade a couple EX for all new gear but that's now how I play these games and I'm just saying that I literally haven't even socketed most of my gear because I thought when I got into Cruel I'd be replacing it, and artificer orbs aren't common to salvage. But yeah I should frankly just go home tonight and socket all my shitty normal act 3 stuff because everything else out there is a side grade
we just aren't given the tools to craft. no alteration orbs, no scours, no crafting bench, and essences are worthless
@@damian02161986then they need to drop more regals……..
I am struggling to defeat the second Act 2(Ogham). It's too hard. I bought a good bow, changed some equipment (on the trade website, I bought good stuff), and I'm still dying. I've asked many people for help, but nobody helps. Should I ask again? I won't create a fourth character; I finally made one I like, and it was strong until this boss. If I can't progress, what else is left for me except to stop playing? The boss has 5 or 6 mechanics that does one shot kill, it's so frustrating, and not fun, those things together create the perfect blueprint to get people rage quit.
How’s your resistances?? Are you using the right charm? How’s your damage output? Everything matters
My personal issue with POE2 endgame is it feels boring, just a really long arduous grind for points. You aren't grinding towards a new system or new functionality in the game, you have no goal to grind for. Playing the campaign I had the goal of grinding to the endgame, once I got there I did 20 or so maps and while I know I could progress and get stronger I do not see the point as I am not grinding towards anything. Grinding to become stronger for the sake of being stronger is boring in my opinion. Grinding to become stronger to progress into another system, or use another feature or element of the game gives reason to do it.
The goal is to beat the endgame bosses which weren't in the campaign. You might not value that as a goal, but it is one.
@@myztikgohanThey for sure are a goal but i feel like they are too far away, would be nice to have other goals that come before them so you dont lose sight of objectives
I love how the Ad that plays before the video is Ryker promoting D4 😆😂
What makes me extremely sad about that is the Diablo team decided to put his quote that “Diablo 4 is in its ultimate form”….
It’s like, really?? You guys really think so!? Hmm….that’s not looking too good for the future then 😢
I cannot beat my 3rd ascendancy, ive made it to the third boss 3 times and died to poison every time. ive been stuck on it for 3 days... its getting super boring doing the trial over and over again.
part of the appeal of PoE is solving the problems you encounter within your build, its not Dark Souls where you can beat any encounter if mechanically skilled enough, you have to put in some work previously in the form of preparation. If you are getting killed by the same thing each time, poison in this case, find a way to solve it, with chaos resistance gear, a poison reistance charm, or any other defensive measure.
I wasted my whole day this past Sunday beating the 2nd Ascendancy with warrior.
As for now, the best solution is to level up to 75-80, then just buy Barya ilvl 60 (area will be lvl 60) and you will steamroll over it. But yeah, trial of sekhema needs to be a bit better balanced. Also, watch guide on the moves of the last boss, once you know it it is really easy boss
Yeah ascendencies are hard. I'm in T7 maps and still haven't gotten 3rd ascendency.
@@mariosnork8785Kinda wish they had a suped up SSF mode.
it's kinda crazy how easy it is to incorporate items targeted at different mechanics when you can trade.
And the other option is a huge grind for bases.
People just hate this guy because he is a gaming journalist who sometimes doesn't share the same opinions of the masses.
I like Paul but he has had some really bad takes previously. Not this one, and that's just being human, but not entirely unwarranted
@@Phillz91 I don't agree with everything he says, but they aren't bad takes. I know the internet is where nuance goes to die, but game reviews are really just opinions.
3:48 your opinion is correct DM. Average Casual Gamer here, and I'm finally closing in on the end of Act3 Cruel. I've been taking my time, just enjoying the ride.
trading bots are getting really bad..
It's causing massively inflated prices in trading now. A couple days ago you could get decent gear with 50 exaults. Now you can't even get gear without like 2+ divines which are over 60 exault r ight now.
Thats just not true if anything everything got cheaper if you feel like you only progress with 1div+ worth of gear then your build is the problem not the gear
I feel this guy and his frustrations and GGG should understand that if they want to retain new players they do need to consider that this guys points ARE valid . For the average gamer it seems punishing for sure and with the amount of “ one shots “ that POE has always had in there game new players will struggle and that’s not a way to retain new players interest .
he got filtered, it happens
He's not saying early game maps are an issue. He's saying he's not enjoying early game maps and from what he understands of Kripp's video, it doesn't get any better at tier 5, 10, 15, etc.
Skill issue
You out level early game maps very quickly. Even T4-T5 maps are USELESS because they give you almost no XP. They are a waste of time. Also, I did a T13 map and had a T2 map drop. I mean come on.
Map sustain comes from the skill tree. Quit bitching
I hit 73 last night and got a rare T3 to drop and plugged it into a map that had two towers next to it both with +exp tablets in them affecting it. I walked out with 3 bars of exp...
Skill issue
But then how come other people have tabs full of maps T13+? You probably specced the atlas tree wrong.
@@darkemperor418literally just bad RNG. No amount of skill is going to improve a drop. Like what? 😂
XP loss should not be a thing in modern game. Losing potentially hour(s) of progress due to a one-hit feels REALLY bad. Like "put the game down" bad.
Also, "struggle" is one thing. That can be brute forced. But struggle with xp loss is extremely demoralizing. Brute forcing in the face of XP loss is just a major feel bad.
Saying the game has trade built into the game is extremely generous.
I appreciate your community, DM. You guys have been extremely respectful to Tassi's opinion, even those not agreeing with him. I've seen other communities not be as kind.
I die all the time in the game. If you lose XP in late game I think it's time to move on to the next game.
Even in D2 if you died in hell you lost 10%... BUT if you went back and looted your corpse without leaving the game you'd get 7.5% back. You could also retry as much as you wanted. D2 is just such a better game lol.
I died about 700 times during the whole campaign 😂 skillissue for sure. And that's fine. But I don't want to loose the maps, bosses or XP when I do. I just wanna have fun, progress and try to improve. But the punishment does not feel good, at all. And it does not give me motivation to progress further...
In regards to pushing through the difficulty, from the perspective of someone in Act 3 normal with like 55ish hours, and struggling, it's not the pushing through a challenge that is the problem. The problem is that It doesn't feel like there is any reward for it because every point feels like a grind. I worked really hard to craft a good build, I built up my resistances, I learn the timings, and I do everything they tell me, but then I get 1 shot in like 20 seconds because there are only a handful of builds that feel powerful and I'm not a 1%, top-tier mechanical player. I don't mind the challenge, but when the difficulty spikes are this big, and the grind is this grinding, and there isn't a reprieve like in PoE 1, it's hard to push through because it doesn't feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I don't need to be clearing screens with 1 button, but it doesn't feel like there is a middle. And then I think "I have another 3 acts of this, and an endgame"...yeah...I want to, but...
Then GGG actually listens, much respect, and I think maybe there is hope, but I still don't know.
Been playing since release, still in act 2 normal… with two different characters. Loving the game but I’m not rushing to get to maps. Thoroughly enjoying my first play through and I will enjoy cruel when I get there.
skill issue
@ u wish. I’m playing with two buddies we don’t move on without each other. Both of my characters are beasts
If you finished cruel, jumped into the maps and is having a hard time here are some tips:
1} Waystones(map sustain) Complete the quests Tier 1 and 2 maps, and use your atlas points into waystones quantity and chance to get a tier up, it will make your waystones sustain better.
2} Fix your resistances and increase your HP or ES (surviving pool) as your top 1 priority.
2.5} If possible have a damage avoidance into your build, like Evasion or Block.
3} As you progress to mid game try to understand defensive layering combinig some recoup or surviving pool recovery into your build(mana = mind over matter+mana regen+mana damage recoup)( energy shield = ghost shround+/or wind dancer +/or grim feast +/or eternal youth +/or recover on block)( hp = life recoup on damage taken +/or life regen +/or recover on block)
3.5} You can use blasphemy with enfeable + curse suport gem to lower the damage you take as a desperate measure too.
4} At the same time as part 3, try to scale your damage improving your weapon, you can disenchant the rares you get and build up your currency to buy it, try to understand offensive layering on POE, grasping the concept of diminishing returns, if it is too much theory for you, just go to the trade site, search for a weapon and click under the weapon on the DPS icon, it will sort it by dps. Buy the better you can afford.
5} THIS IS A NERD GAME, you will eventually have to watch videos to understand the mechanics(tools) used in many builds in order to build your own character, you can copy paste every league like many do and have fun, sure, but the most joy you can have with this game come from applying what you've learned into building your own, be sure of that.
Maps have really soured me on the game. Its far too punishing. Losing time is a worse enough punishment with just the xp mechanics, but the one portal is straight up hostile and heinous. So everytime i get a char to maps I quickly consider moving on to the next character. But then theres only so many characters, its EA after all.
And to top that off, randomly, since the latest patch, sometimes I'd get dc'ed to login after entering any map, trials, etc, and find said map completely gone. Insane.
POE1 was hard in some ways, and I could appreciate the increase in difficulty in the next installment, but this is too far an overcorrect by far. I'll have to wait until they make more significant changes until I consider returning.
It doesnt have to be easier, it just needs to be different.
I am new to POE and consider myself a casual gamer. I had some extra free time since the launch, so I was lucky and put in around 84 hours with minimal AFK time. I just completed the Cruel campaign last night. So I would say the assumption that most casual players are still in campaign is very likely. In normal times I would not have the availability to put in this many hours and the majority on my friends list have less time and are still in campaign.
84 hours to finish the campaign? What were you doing lol
I have 88 hours and I'm already doing 13-15 maps.
@@matrix255 respeccing because I bricked my build during Act 1 and taking my time with the game as a first time player doing everything. Typical useless comment from you trying to make somebody new to the game feel less than because you are so good at a game.
Game is going to be in EA for quite some time, is there really sth to gain for reaching endgame this fast?
Since there is no proper POB for part 2 it seems more fun to try the characters and skillgems and support interactions instead of grinding one character like it would be a normal POE season.
The people that do reach endgame this fast will be able to give the feedback to the devs so by the time all us normies reach it we will have a good smooth time. So if people want to speed to the endgame I say lettem
@@ziek3012 I don't want a bunch of tryhard sweaty streamers making decisions on patches for me.....
@@kanick1983that’s why ur watching the videos bruv
@@kanick1983 to bad there is nothing you can do about it cause desicions wont be made around you
@@kanick1983 you think GGG is stupid? Even if they balance the endgame for 1% and you'll never reach it you will have a great game for 100+ hours. Should be enough for a soon F2P game to not complain that not everything is for you.
I think it's boring as fuck. Do I need to git gud? Maybe. But a souls like has mechanical depth. "Git gud" in Poe means copy a better build and get lucky with your measily drops. The process of getting gud is dull. I am on act 3 and have no motivation to play more
There's definitely depth to this game's campaign boss fights if you dont just have extreme dps. You still need to learn all of the moves and appropriate ways to dodge. Every single boss i struggled with i knew it was my skill issue on dodging and baiting them into position.
@darth, I don't know why streamers don't see this as the annoying issue that it is. Only a certain amount of maps have bosses on them. With one death per map, you enter a boss map, you get to the boss, he looks at you and you die and then what? You've lost that node's boss and you can't repeat it and you have to start looking for others. Not to mention the fact that the feeling of putting down 20 minutes to clear the damn map, then get to the boss, then maybe even get him down to 5% and you die due to a one hit mechanic.... not a good feeling.
Either ALL maps need to have bosses and if you lose one boss map then there's tons of others (feeling of wasted time remains), or they just have to let us retry the boss fight. Bosses can reset their HP, then the give you 3-4 chances to kill it and that's it, it's so simple if they add this.
I've got 60 hours in the game. I haven't even finished act 3 yet. I'm new to arpgs. Every act boss feels like a new wall I need to grind/respec my way around.
He didnt say it was nothing like poe1, he said the endgame is nothing like the campaign. Think your misunderstood that part. He barley played poe1.
This video is such copium apologetics. Reality is, the average gamers doesn't play this for a living or no-life it.
I’ve done over 300 maps and still have not found 1 citadel…
I played the 2nd ascension/chaos trials for 2 days before beating it. From level 33( i think) to level 42. Literally.
Tiring. Frustrating. But I have learned a lot about gearing from that
@@jeiigomez492 congrats, that trial was hell on earth for me
I work at home, started playing as soon as it dropped, and have played a few hours a day. I have about 60 hours now and I’m still in Cruel Act 2. I have one friend who has played daily and is innormal Act 3, with about 30 hours.
3:36 I have nearly 2 days of play time and I'm not even finished with Act 3 normal. I'm new to PoE. I tried PoE1 for about 20 hours and it was too many systems and overwhelming.
I'm still at the start of act 2 😆. Work has been busy. I have been having a blast so far. Way more fun than PoE1 for me so far.
PoE1 needs 100 hours before you start to understand the basics. Unfortunately the basics only help you in 1/100 scenarios.
It’s like saying, “this show gets great after season 3” but you have to slog through 20-30hrs of content.
If the game hasn’t earned your time in the first few hours let alone 100 hours, thats flawed design and a substandard experience that hasn’t earned your time to get to those points. PoE2 was fun, but I’d rate my experience at 7.2/10.
Getting a Rhyker D4 ad when I clicked on this video is CRAZY. lol.
But always love your take DM!
Same about ad lol d4 is so done
I am new to POE, finished the campaign in 81 hours and 560 deaths - I did almost quit in the first Act but after reaching Act 2, I have been having a lot of fun and my build is feeling still weak but super fun to play.
Not really motivated to play maps now, due to me dying a lot in general. For my dying and wasting time is the punshiment - so having added things that i will get punished for, does not really make me want to try the maps even. I do think that they will fix these things and I am mega excited for the official Launch!
Have you not found ure weaknesses, start again with a new character and go a different way with ure play time experience, then ull do maps and die less and have more fun cos ull be beating the game
Jesus 560 deaths? Not trying to flame or anything but holy moly. How did you stay sane the whole time? Im almost done with act 2 with only like 15 deaths lol
You should trade. Poe is a game balanced around trade. I'd wager if you spent like 5 exalts you could fix your survivability problems. Get gear that requires your skills main stat to wear with a few resistances and life on it. You will be super powerful in no time. More new players need to hear this. You can buy 1ex items to cap your resists and give you alot of es or armor or evasion
What are you mostly dying from / too? Do you think your problem is just not killing the enemies fast enough or is it more a defence issue?
@@zacharydesalvo3612 It happens. lol. I mean on my monk I'm on Act 3 and I've died 98 times so far. Dreadnaught was horrendous for me with the narrow walkways and body blocking. Then spears to the face.
I feel like the loss on death in map is just too punishing. Loosing xp, waystone AND the mechanic just feels bad. Let me replay the mechanic again, so that i can balance the loss at least a little bit. Loosing on a boss map feels horrid, since i wanna do bosses and i barely see them.
Currency drops or mid game crafting needs to improve aswel, so that people don't get stuck so easily.
The problem I've experienced is that early difficulty spikes from needing to learn mechanics or do some gear upgrading or grind a few levels feels achieveable, I'm new, that's a skill issue. But reaching a boss where it feels like you need to re-grind your entire gear set for a different resist while low leveling feels really bad. For example, I just transitioned from Ketzuli to Viper on normal on my Witch, running MoM on a minion build because duh, almost 1.5k effective hp from shields and mana which at this level when fighting mobs/elites in world makes me virtually unkillable. There was a low margin of error on Ketzuli's mechanics, a mistimed roll during his cone that follows you in particular could burn through my massive effective hp, so I used all my socketing consumes to rune for fire resist to get through Ketzuli. Now I'm getting one-shot by similar poison mechanics on Viper, and it seems that I have to re-gear completely for poison resist. It was hard enough to get one set of good +spirit gear at this level, it took a lot of time to get this set together for Ketzuli. Even thinking of doing that again just to beat Viper makes me feel bored and tired, so I'm just going to play a different game. TL;DR Difficulty is good, grindiness is bad, make surpassing difficulty less dependant on grind, like unslotting runes.
I failed my 2nd map 3 times in a row because I didn't realize "explodes nearby corpses" was a thing, just saw myself going pop and had no clue wtf was happening
This killed me on tier 5 maps, the mob was off screen and slowly walked into view as I stared at my screen wondering what happened
22k hours in POE1 player here.
Hmm Its like you dont get what he is talking about with the dodge-roll.
The entire game is build around using the dodge-roll, and it kinda suck imo.
If you do not play a meta build and your playing the game like its "supposed" to be played. Explore the skill tree, try different things out and does not have a lot of XP from POE1. then everything is fking annoying and you have to use your dodge-roll on most packs. GGG has made a very average game with straight up stupid choices in there systems.
- 1 support gem per char? WTF? make a good game that allows players to do what they think is the best???
- Gating level of skill gems behind zones that you might not be able to get to without higher level gems???
- 1 portal maps are just annoying. the fact that you might lose your progress is making ppl quit.
- The fact that you can freeze most bosses is lame. Whats the point of making the bosses do mekanics if you can just freeze them?
- The Gem system is such a downgrade compared to POE1
- I could go on and on, But I will not since i have faith in GGG and I hope they will make the game good at some point :)
Pauls had some terrible takes (Veilguard, Starfield, etc) - but he's not wrong here. The endgame is definitely undercooked, directionless, overly punishing, etc. This includes the 4th ascendency (like...4 full floors of Sekhema is fucking outrageous; and Ultimatum...yea hard pass; there's KIND OF a reason most PoE players hate Sanctum and Ultimatum...but whatever, bring it to PoE 2 and lock player power behind it - good stuff GGG /s lol). And single portal boss encounters (like using a Breachstone, for example) is also insanity. I get a SINGLE attempt to learn mechanics? Its not good game design if I have to prewatch someone else do the fight, just so I have any shot at killing a boss that took a decent time to farm up. Learning and conquering the boss fights is one of the more fun aspects of these games (especially poe 2 since the bosses are awesome). Like, come on now. There's difficulty and then there's bullshit. This is bullshit.
Just remember what Ziz said: "This is the worst PoE 2 will ever be". They'll fix this stuff, but man - playing endgame right now is painful. I think most should steer clear and just try other classes and play the campaign. A lot more fun imo. They've got something going with the endgame, sure; but it needs A LOT of work
nah the biggest issue is how dry/boring endgame is atm... they should add a boss rush mode and make the endgame infinitely harder whislt resembling the early game more
so, the game needs to LESS punishing.. but harder/more rewarding in its delivery.
man i did have a hard time on the Act 2 final boss. but when i beat him. It was SOOOO rewarding!!!! like im just a casual player that might get 2-4 hours on my days off. but i am LOVING the game so far!
I'm stuck on forgermaster. The more you play, the more your build looks like or copies everybody else's.
That's why some of us avoid popular builds.
Your playstyle will be yours. Equipment will likely be cheaper in trade.
The options in this game are wide and deep. If your goal is to be different, then go for it
We also have less than half the game. It might be worth waiting for more classes and content to be pushed out.
Ooooff..I'm stuck at him as well..got him down to 45% or so and drowned in the lava. 10 runs was enough.
Really the issue is that it seems the dev don’t want me to play the game at endgame. If I make a single mistake I’m set back hours farming useless content. I can’t die and retry to learn a boss, and I could die from any error of judgement and be set back to lower tier maps for a while.
‘If you are having fun then push through it’ well that’s the issue, I don’t have fun anymore. Campaign was a blast and I welcomed the challenge. Endgame is pure masochism, not my cup of tea, sorry.
‘Then quit’ well yes, i guess I will, which saddens me.
Exactly. GGG wanted accessibility. But I guess I took it wrong. It’s fun with the campaign but I’m not looking forward to endgame maps. Too punishing for the sake of punishing.
If I die and lose all that progression, just to try and get it all back… and like some people said, reframing and not getting any materials to get back to the same level where I am at, it gets boring and unsatisfying.
I looked at all the stash tabs and supporter packs that I bought for poe1 and told myself, I’ll never do the same with poe2. My years of playing poe1 made me realized why I quit in the first place.
I guess I’ll just quit too once I hit endgame maps and get stuck at a tier.
On tuesday, before the patch, I was struggling around T4-T5 maps. Today I'm comfortably running T14 and T15 maps. Big upgrades, 4th lab done, it feels actually pretty good.
On my merc I just felt like big slams and giant hits killed me in T15s. Dunno, but its true, Evasion feel like a very weak late-game stat. There is a need for a 2nd layer of defence in late game. Only Evasion doesnt do it. Going harder on armor was what made my merc feel good to play late-game
I think Paul Tassi raises some fair points about endgame difficulty while also misunderstanding Kripp's video.
agreed, the issues are real but it is still painful to watch him talk about it with an alleged few hrs in maps
I think the one part that may have been a miscommunication is that when he says "the previous game" he is talking about the campaign of POE2, not POE1, he's talking about the game shift from campaign to mapping how the punishment is so inconsistent. Also, I think a lot of his points aren't thing that he's running into in low tier maps, it's that he's already frustrated with early mapping and has nothing to look forward to since it is only going to get worse and more punishing. I don't think you're wrong, I just think it's a failure by the reviewer to effectively communicate the difference between campaign, early endgame, and what he is seeing as the future of the game from his perspective based on other's experiences.
Monk level 79. Post patch I still get one shot sometimes. It just feels much too punishing. Loosing exp and the map is just too much. I really love POE2 but I will not play it ever again if they don't change it.
u just got filtered buddy
I game every day as a dad of two young kids and I’m not done with act 3 on normal difficulty. People complaining seemed to have played a crazy amount of hours and the game is early access… like wtf. This game is fantastic. Constructive feedback is good for continuous improvement but I see too much complaining by people that seem to play this game as their job in early access. Pretty crazy to me. Cheers.
Comparing to other Arpgs the poe2 is significantly better.
I’ve been playing ssf after work and I’m doing fine but I got 2k hours in poe1. There’s a lot of different focus shifted on new sustain mechanics in poe2 to remove some of the build bloat from the previous game. Which makes it a little more restrictive right now but as they update it will open up and evolve into something better than the previous. At some point people don’t remember this is a ggg game and you’re not entitled to what you should know and what you’re expected to know and at what time it should be known. Your deaths are the equalizer to make you take a step back and ask what do I need to do to improve.
I been honest i havent push out of act 1 yet bc im playing with all the low lvl stuff first.tring all the class's.. framing boss's uniques to see what they drop... mostly playing multiple witchs atm... playing with button rotation and things.... im haveing fun... i enjoy that its hard to the point i needbto pay attention and not zonk out slaying hords.... i wana get there eventually but i don't want that to be the whole game... i wana earn it... i like being checked.. but on that note....
REMOVE ALL ON DEATH EFFECTS... OR MAKE THEM ALL VISUAL ONLY!.... GD!!.... GGG...FFS!
losing XP in a game is almost never fun. maybe when you're 16 and can play 18 hours/day it gives you a sense of accomplishment... for most others, it just feels like a big waste of your time - especially if you're in the rinse/repeat section of the endgame.
Get off you knees - not all players are having fun.
This guy gave Starfield a 10 and last Dragon Age a 9.5. If he posts his char I get a feeling we are gonna laugh
Just a heads up DM, thought I heard you say you created a new character to try and hunt down a monolith. I just got a second character up to maps and it seems as though the Atlas progression and Quest status is shared between the account; just to bring it to your attention if you weren't aware.
Great objective perspective on the review, as per usual, keep up the great work.
I’m taking my time I’m still in act 1 normal but I’ve tried a few different classes and got a better understanding of the systems