Ahhhhhh.... This is the way - of course!! Not only is the tuning 'correct' - with 'no-more-enharmonics-really-which-we-knew-all-the-time-but-had-never-really-experienced-quite-like-this (!!!) - but the playing is so full of life and beauty, that you really never want this to end! Muffat knew how to build the drama - but these two, also show so convincingly how to present it!! A thoroughly and well-thought set-up - in a truly wonderful performance!!!
This performance is unbelievably gorgeous and notable for the performers' attention to producing the most beautiful possible intonation of every pitch. It must have taken an enormous amount of effort and care to produce this most sublime recording, and it was time well spent. You've set the bar very high, but I hope others will follow your example.
I Listen to this sonata all the time !!! Many many times !!! I decided to take my baroque violin and perform with the video !!! But surprise !!! The diapason is: A = 440Hz !!! Why !!?? Thank you in advance !!! No doubt; the performance is magic for me !!
In Muffat's time, composers usually used 'b' instead of a 'natural' sign, today we would write B#-Cnat - this was just common practice and has nothing to do with the enharmonic situation of this passage.
In the German/Austrian repertoire of the 2nd half of the 17th century it seems that both types of trills (upper note and main note) were possible, depending on the context. Sometimes one comes more naturally, sometimes the other: this is of course personal and may have to do with the fact that this music is in a transitional period between "Early" Baroque style (main note trills) and "High" Baroque style (trills with appoggiatura). Unfortunately there is no source which gives us a clear answer to this question; Muffat's Florilegium Secundum explicitly refers to French music and therefore does not apply to his sonata which was written much earlier in a very different style.
Also the bowing, agréments and passaggi in the Adagio are very tasteful! Could you please record the entire sonata repertoire like that (perhaps with a little less reverb)? We shall not suffer any other, less accomplished, performances from now on.
Wow, this violinist plays with great intonation! Not many violinists can play in meantone instead of equal or Pythagorean (or even know of the existence thereof)! Perhaps the violinist here spent a lot of time practicing intonation together with the harpsichord. My only suggestion for improvement is in the transition between the enharmonics, e.g. B# and C natural: perhaps the last B# quaver (there are three of them in quavers before the enharmonic, C) should be raised to a compromise position between B# and C, so that the transition doesn't sound so abrupt and shocking to the ear. (But obviously some degree of shock is necessary for such passages, and to play everything equal-tempered, like virtually all other (modern) violinists would do, would be to whitewash they music into blandness.)
That's a very interesting comment. What I found fascinating in this recording is that, altho the B# and C that you mentioned do sound very different, they are both in tune with the underlying harmony. I think the performer made the conscious choice to do it that way, as it is more likely that that's the way they would have done it at the time of composition. Thanks for your comment - it's wonderful to have such musical intelligence commenting on UA-cam!
That enharmonic pitch change is probably my favorite part of this recording! I find it incredibly expressive and chilling! I think it really ramps up the intensity in an already very adventurous passage :)
Thank you for this beautiful comment. Having two different keys for B# and C (with the interval of a Diesis, a fifth of a whole tone in between of them) we decided to have the same interval in the violin intonation. From our point of view, this really is the core idea of these enharmonic passages. Of course, a compromise solution would also be possible, but it would definitely sound more out of tune because the harmony strongly suggests the Diesis step. By the way, Eva didn't spend too much time tuning to the harpsichord, it was very natural for her from the beginning to just adopt the extended meantone idea of the keyboard.
To be honest, it is hard to imagine that musicians from that time had ready access to harpsichords with enough split keys to have a key for B#. If the distinct shift between B# and C is desired, this might have to be left to the violin, and the harpsichordist would have to omit the 3rd in the relevant chords.
What do you base your imagination on? I'd be curious to know if you had any evidence about keyboard instruments around Muffat in this early phase of his life. I can't link this sonata to a Cimbalo Cromatico specifically, but there is a lot of context that doesn't make it a crazy idea. In this time, the assumption of a clearly non-meantone temperament is harder to imagine than split keys, but that's just my perspective. And I do agree with you that this piece is absolutely playable on 12 keys, adapting the Generalbass realization accordingly.
What's the source of this recording? I see it's a live recording from 2016, but is the full concert available for purchase anywhere? This is really incredible and I'd love to have it on CD.
There is no other recording available, and we didn't plan a CD with this piece yet. So this is really the only document. Maybe there will be some recording project in the future.
@@Studio31plus Oh I really wish that it will happen someday. I am sure you can make a magic and important recording together. You are both unique performers and the combination is simply outstanding.
Magnificent playing, but why is it at A = 440? "[David K.] Wilson’s discussion of pitch gives frequencies for the four standards referred to by Muffat: Cornett-Thon (a' = ca. 460-70 Hz), Chor-Thon (ca. 416 Hz), Ton de chambre (ca. 404 Hz), and Ton d’Opéra (ca. 393 Hz). Deriving these standards from the work of Bruce Haynes, he suggests that Chor-Thon is the most likely choice for both the Florilegia (Muffat recommends it in the Florilegium secundum foreword) and the Auserlesene … Instrumentalmusik, where a performance replacing the string concertino with oboes and bassoon would have been around a' = 416 Hz, “the pitch at which the French wind instruments played” (100). Yet this seems too high, for Haynes finds that “the first French [woodwind] instruments heard in Germany were direct imports that accompanied their players, and were pitched at Ton d’Opéra … and Ton de la chambre du Roy,” and that a´ = ca. 403 Hz was “probably the most important French instrumental pitch in this period, when French instruments were serving everywhere as models.”10 Thus Muffat’s desire for Chor-Thon, if it really was as high as ca. 416 Hz, would likely have been thwarted by the participation of wind instruments built to lower pitch standards." From: www.sscm-jscm.org/jscm/v11/no1/zohn.html
There is no specific reason for A=440, in fact I already forgot that it was. I remember that we recorded this piece after recording other things, at the end of a long day, and the harpsichord happened to be on 440. I often use different diapasons, sometimes for specific reasons, sometimes just following practical considerations. My personal opinion is that at the end of the day it's not the most important aspect of performance, therefore I don't care so much about it. I'm aware that there are people who are very sensitive to the diapason and therefore it is an important aspect for them, I totally respect that of course.
@@Studio31plus Thanks. I agree that it's not the most important aspect and I'm not sensitive to it. I was just surprised. Beautiful performance of beautiful music,
I'm not so sure those "micro-tones" were necessarily intended as such. It's likely a notational thing. Regardless, the violin is playing with just intonation (in tune in real time) against the tempered keyboard.
Actually, the violin is not playing strictly Just Intonation, but following the system of the keyboard, which is 1/4-comma meantone. This specific harpsichord has split keys, therefore the "microtones" are very much a reality within the keyboard instrument as well. To my knowledge there is no strong evidence for or against this kind of intonation / temperament. But executed with split keys, the enharmonic passages are definitely more than "a notational thing". Having said this, I believe that the piece also works beautifully without split keys.
@@Studio31plus The violin playing in tune in real time "following the system of the keyboard" IS just intonation. One cannot say the violin is playing in the keyboard's temperament because it isn't a fixed pitch/temperament instrument. It is playing in just intonation so as to be in tune with the keyboard. The temperament of the continuo tends to be negated as ensembles get larger. Split keys are necessary in a keyboard because in different temperaments, one note's sharp is different from another's flat (eg: G# and A-flat or F# and G-flat). They just aren't the same note. This is why temperaments favor certain keys and cannot go too far afield. (Equal temperament's merit is that it is equally poor in ALL keys) Playing in tune and temperaments aside, I suggest a notational issue because natural signs weren't always used and a flat sign was often used to negate a sharp rather than a natural. Also from a harmony stand point a key/chord requiring a sharped note would not be written with another notes flat. It might sound the same but on paper its a wrong note. I dare say we're probably not unlike in our assessment. Just using different wording.
Ahhhhhh.... This is the way - of course!!
Not only is the tuning 'correct' - with 'no-more-enharmonics-really-which-we-knew-all-the-time-but-had-never-really-experienced-quite-like-this (!!!)
- but the playing is so full of life and beauty, that you really never want this to end!
Muffat knew how to build the drama - but these two, also show so convincingly how to present it!!
A thoroughly and well-thought set-up - in a truly wonderful performance!!!
I love that there are 31 likes on this comment at the moment. 31 likes for 31 tones!
I honestly had an eargasm
Finally a harpsichord that is apt for the accompaniment of a violin. Thank you so much for letting me out of hell.
Yay! 7:14 true microtones! (also 7:44)
This is a fantastic performance.
I am in awe of these two glorious artists. This performance is truly exquisite.
Two beautiful souls
This performance is unbelievably gorgeous and notable for the performers' attention to producing the most beautiful possible intonation of every pitch. It must have taken an enormous amount of effort and care to produce this most sublime recording, and it was time well spent. You've set the bar very high, but I hope others will follow your example.
7:43... wow! This is probably the best intonated violin playing I've ever heard. Thank you so much for sharing.
I Listen to this sonata all the time !!! Many many times !!! I decided to take my baroque violin and perform with the video !!! But surprise !!! The diapason is: A = 440Hz !!! Why !!?? Thank you in advance !!! No doubt; the performance is magic for me !!
Thank you! No specific reason, it was a practical decision when we made the recording.
I'm one more of those who'd love a CD of this recording.
Thanks for uploading it!
Muffat is one of the greatest Baroque composers. A pity much of his music is not known
I have heard this sonata a few times - but never executed so beautifully :D
Sometimes dreams come true . . . Pure beauty ! Thank you !!
They do come true , yes. Unexpectedly ...
I can’t get enough of this! It’s masterful!
Mad respect.
I played this at my first violin lesson in 20 years. Fantastic, I fell in love with Muffat from this piece. 😊
Beautiful!!! That little B#-C diesis movement is really special! First I thought it said B#-Cb and I was really confused!
In Muffat's time, composers usually used 'b' instead of a 'natural' sign, today we would write B#-Cnat - this was just common practice and has nothing to do with the enharmonic situation of this passage.
Ah I see, a flat to cancel out the sharp! Thanks for the explanation
Can't stop watching this!
so it is like Marin Marais 'La Gamme' but even more...splendid...pity you did not put it on a record for our pleasure...
Beyond fantastic!!
wow....
unbelievable beautifull
A breathtaking interpretation ! Wow !
Wat een verbijsterend mooie uitvoering! Rechtstreeks uit de muzikale hemel!!!
Beautiful performance....
That was amazing!
Beatiful 😍
Fantastisch!
Wonderful Playing!
A fascinating performance-Bravi!
Wunderbar!
j' aime vraiment bien votre travail.
Does anyone know why the violinist doesn't trill on the upper note? Was it common practice in Muffat's time?
In the German/Austrian repertoire of the 2nd half of the 17th century it seems that both types of trills (upper note and main note) were possible, depending on the context. Sometimes one comes more naturally, sometimes the other: this is of course personal and may have to do with the fact that this music is in a transitional period between "Early" Baroque style (main note trills) and "High" Baroque style (trills with appoggiatura). Unfortunately there is no source which gives us a clear answer to this question; Muffat's Florilegium Secundum explicitly refers to French music and therefore does not apply to his sonata which was written much earlier in a very different style.
@@evasaladin445 thank you for your informational answer! And thank you for this ineffable performance!
Very nice, we like!
Also the bowing, agréments and passaggi in the Adagio are very tasteful! Could you please record the entire sonata repertoire like that (perhaps with a little less reverb)? We shall not suffer any other, less accomplished, performances from now on.
wunderbar
Wow, this violinist plays with great intonation! Not many violinists can play in meantone instead of equal or Pythagorean (or even know of the existence thereof)! Perhaps the violinist here spent a lot of time practicing intonation together with the harpsichord. My only suggestion for improvement is in the transition between the enharmonics, e.g. B# and C natural: perhaps the last B# quaver (there are three of them in quavers before the enharmonic, C) should be raised to a compromise position between B# and C, so that the transition doesn't sound so abrupt and shocking to the ear. (But obviously some degree of shock is necessary for such passages, and to play everything equal-tempered, like virtually all other (modern) violinists would do, would be to whitewash they music into blandness.)
That's a very interesting comment. What I found fascinating in this recording is that, altho the B# and C that you mentioned do sound very different, they are both in tune with the underlying harmony. I think the performer made the conscious choice to do it that way, as it is more likely that that's the way they would have done it at the time of composition.
Thanks for your comment - it's wonderful to have such musical intelligence commenting on UA-cam!
That enharmonic pitch change is probably my favorite part of this recording! I find it incredibly expressive and chilling! I think it really ramps up the intensity in an already very adventurous passage :)
Thank you for this beautiful comment. Having two different keys for B# and C (with the interval of a Diesis, a fifth of a whole tone in between of them) we decided to have the same interval in the violin intonation. From our point of view, this really is the core idea of these enharmonic passages. Of course, a compromise solution would also be possible, but it would definitely sound more out of tune because the harmony strongly suggests the Diesis step. By the way, Eva didn't spend too much time tuning to the harpsichord, it was very natural for her from the beginning to just adopt the extended meantone idea of the keyboard.
To be honest, it is hard to imagine that musicians from that time had ready access to harpsichords with enough split keys to have a key for B#. If the distinct shift between B# and C is desired, this might have to be left to the violin, and the harpsichordist would have to omit the 3rd in the relevant chords.
What do you base your imagination on? I'd be curious to know if you had any evidence about keyboard instruments around Muffat in this early phase of his life. I can't link this sonata to a Cimbalo Cromatico specifically, but there is a lot of context that doesn't make it a crazy idea. In this time, the assumption of a clearly non-meantone temperament is harder to imagine than split keys, but that's just my perspective. And I do agree with you that this piece is absolutely playable on 12 keys, adapting the Generalbass realization accordingly.
07:37
Good
Where can one find the score used here?
What's the source of this recording? I see it's a live recording from 2016, but is the full concert available for purchase anywhere? This is really incredible and I'd love to have it on CD.
There is no other recording available, and we didn't plan a CD with this piece yet. So this is really the only document. Maybe there will be some recording project in the future.
Sorry to hear it! Thank you for making it available on UA-cam, in that case.
@@Studio31plus Oh I really wish that it will happen someday. I am sure you can make a magic and important recording together. You are both unique performers and the combination is simply outstanding.
A CD of baroque music all in extended meantone would be amazing! I'd buy it.
Magnificent playing, but why is it at A = 440?
"[David K.] Wilson’s discussion of pitch gives frequencies for the four standards referred to by Muffat: Cornett-Thon (a' = ca. 460-70 Hz), Chor-Thon (ca. 416 Hz), Ton de chambre (ca. 404 Hz), and Ton d’Opéra (ca. 393 Hz). Deriving these standards from the work of Bruce Haynes, he suggests that Chor-Thon is the most likely choice for both the Florilegia (Muffat recommends it in the Florilegium secundum foreword) and the Auserlesene … Instrumentalmusik, where a performance replacing the string concertino with oboes and bassoon would have been around a' = 416 Hz, “the pitch at which the French wind instruments played” (100). Yet this seems too high, for Haynes finds that “the first French [woodwind] instruments heard in Germany were direct imports that accompanied their players, and were pitched at Ton d’Opéra … and Ton de la chambre du Roy,” and that a´ = ca. 403 Hz was “probably the most important French instrumental pitch in this period, when French instruments were serving everywhere as models.”10 Thus Muffat’s desire for Chor-Thon, if it really was as high as ca. 416 Hz, would likely have been thwarted by the participation of wind instruments built to lower pitch standards."
From: www.sscm-jscm.org/jscm/v11/no1/zohn.html
There is no specific reason for A=440, in fact I already forgot that it was. I remember that we recorded this piece after recording other things, at the end of a long day, and the harpsichord happened to be on 440. I often use different diapasons, sometimes for specific reasons, sometimes just following practical considerations. My personal opinion is that at the end of the day it's not the most important aspect of performance, therefore I don't care so much about it. I'm aware that there are people who are very sensitive to the diapason and therefore it is an important aspect for them, I totally respect that of course.
@@Studio31plus Thanks. I agree that it's not the most important aspect and I'm not sensitive to it. I was just surprised. Beautiful performance of beautiful music,
I'm not so sure those "micro-tones" were necessarily intended as such. It's likely a notational thing. Regardless, the violin is playing with just intonation (in tune in real time) against the tempered keyboard.
Actually, the violin is not playing strictly Just Intonation, but following the system of the keyboard, which is 1/4-comma meantone. This specific harpsichord has split keys, therefore the "microtones" are very much a reality within the keyboard instrument as well. To my knowledge there is no strong evidence for or against this kind of intonation / temperament. But executed with split keys, the enharmonic passages are definitely more than "a notational thing". Having said this, I believe that the piece also works beautifully without split keys.
@@Studio31plus The violin playing in tune in real time "following the system of the keyboard" IS just intonation. One cannot say the violin is playing in the keyboard's temperament because it isn't a fixed pitch/temperament instrument. It is playing in just intonation so as to be in tune with the keyboard. The temperament of the continuo tends to be negated as ensembles get larger. Split keys are necessary in a keyboard because in different temperaments, one note's sharp is different from another's flat (eg: G# and A-flat or F# and G-flat). They just aren't the same note. This is why temperaments favor certain keys and cannot go too far afield. (Equal temperament's merit is that it is equally poor in ALL keys) Playing in tune and temperaments aside, I suggest a notational issue because natural signs weren't always used and a flat sign was often used to negate a sharp rather than a natural. Also from a harmony stand point a key/chord requiring a sharped note would not be written with another notes flat. It might sound the same but on paper its a wrong note. I dare say we're probably not unlike in our assessment. Just using different wording.
has it been released on CD?
So it is.
Mit einem Wort, faszinierend! Wo finde ich Informationen und Bilder zu dieser Cimbola chromatico, die angeblich 17 Tasten in jeder Oktave hat?
www.projektstudio31.com/instruments, in dieser Aufnahme wurde das "Cimbalo Cromatico" mit 24 Tasten pro Oktave verwendet.
ik ben sprakeloos