I was an Air Force RC-135 navigator back in the 80-90s. Celestial navigation works well in good flight conditions. When away from land we had to shoot cell every 20 minutes, makes for a long day. We also used grid navigation (heading reference) when in polar regions. Very easy to make data extraction and computational mistakes.
In the old days they had pilots, navigators, radio operators and flight engineers. It is amazing how technology has reduced that to just two persons in the flight deck. With AI, one day airplanes will fly autonomously much like trams connecting terminals at airports.
Interesting, I may look further into this and try to compute my location just to get a feel for how it was done. I was thinking some nav guys could do this quickly and accurately. Though need to locate books with tables. I have used log tables back in 1970s when calculators were making their debut. And I learned how to interpolate. I remember at that time I got a 7th place log tables, a US GPO book from the 1930s, big thick and small print as there were a lot of numbers. Obviously very dated. It is long gone but I read such books were produced when govt hired out of work mathematicians to compute 7th place log tables and trig tables. This later paid off during Manhattan Project where many did lots of calculations requiring high precision.
It's amazing to think they had no computer or even calculators and were using books table for transcendental functions. They must have been very sharp and clear thinkers, not swamped and clouded by overuse of computer graphics.
@@goognamgoognw6637 : Thank you. Your assessment of my having been a "very sharp and clear thinker" is much appreciated! - USAF Navigator, B-52H and C-130E, 1989-2009, Retired.
@@justincase5272 Given your service dates my compliment did not apply to you. I said : before the age of computers and calculators. Any reasonably vigilant dumbass can use a computer. So you're getting a kick in the rear instead for trying to steal a compliment not addressed to you.
@@justincase5272 There are very few certified flight navigators left in the USA. The last count was around 49 certified on record with the FAA. It’s a shame that no one can get a rating for it because no one teaches the course anymore and we cannot locate anyone with examining authority. The rating may not be needed with today’s GPS, however, it sure is an interesting subject matter that few can master and many would like to learn.
@@Somethingisntright64 We may have to relearn it soon. Russia tested a missile that destroys satellites. Disabling GPS would make it harder for our armed forces to navigate. At least we will not have to worry about log tables to seven digits.
Glad I learned this in Nav School at 'Mother'. Pilots did not have the intelligence level to learns such a complicated aviation tool. That's why pilots go where Navs tell him to go. Pilots are the chauffeur.
Dont forget to keep an eye on cyl. Head temp and manifold pressure at the same time. Hopefully you calculate correctly so you know if you need to throw all extra weight overboard depending on the amount of fuel you have to get where you're going.
The USAAF wasn't in the business of doing solo flights over the Atlantic. These navigators would be providing course info to the pilots they worked for, not flying the plane directly. (Though some autopilot systems from this era could have their heading controlled remotely by the navigator)
major issues, 1 the celestial sphere is an azimuth projection,, has nothing to do with earth, you are the center. You get the angle to the star, find true north, measure azimuth angle for position, with the time. Direction of heading and location 🤠 no toy globe needed
@iveneverseensuchbehaviorin5367 geometry is based off of the dead level horizon (flat) and celestial disc or plane... botched globe distortion introduces arcs which of course are conveniently ignored in celestial calculations 😉
First words of this video: "To be useful to the aerial navigator, positions in the celestial sphere must be transferred to the earth." So, because we must maintain that earth is a globe we ignore the actual observation because for the earth to be a globe we have to invert it. The sky is flat¿
9 min in and no mention yet of North star? Lotta nonsense and talk about fake space tho... and zenith TVs I guess the sextant had been eliminated as well. Many sailors have been lost making such calculations on a "Globe" model. 👌👌👌 The Flight of the Navigator i suppose was one piloted by lost peoples
@one giant lie for mankind. You're stupid. Long before GPS, navigators used a device called ‘sextant’ to determine the angle of a celestial body. From that data, the latitude of their current location can be determined. This can only happen if the Earth is spherical. In the Northern hemisphere, navigators usually used Polaris. Using a sextant, they measured the angle between Polaris and the horizon. The angle would be very close to the latitude of their current position. In the Southern hemisphere, they did the same thing but with the south celestial pole. The problem is that there’s no bright star close to the south celestial pole, unlike Polaris in the North. So, they used the nearby Crux and Pointer stars to determine the approximate location of the south celestial pole. The angle between the south celestial pole and the horizon is the same as the latitude of the observer. In the Northern hemisphere, the southern celestial pole is not visible. And conversely, in the Southern hemisphere, Polaris is not visible. So, there’s no ambiguity on which star to aim. Celestial navigation is possible only because the Earth is spherical. We make use of the knowledge of the correct figure of the Earth for the purposes of navigation. This is how our ancestors were able to travel to the other side of the world (and back to the original location) without the modern technology we have today.
The angle (or altitude) to Polaris approximately corresponds to the latitude of the observer. This fact is observed on every location on Earth where Polaris is visible. By tracing the path to Polaris from multiple locations on the flat Earth model, the lines will not point to a consistent position of Polaris. The reason is that the Earth is a sphere and the flat Earth model does not represent reality. The position of Polaris today is conveniently very close to the north celestial pole. And therefore, the altitude or the angle between horizon and Polaris can be used to determine the approximate observer’s latitude. South of the equator, Polaris is not visible and obviously cannot be used for navigation. Polaris is below the horizon and obstructed by the Earth. It is necessary to locate the south celestial pole in the sky to determine the observer’s latitude. It is more difficult as there is no bright star nearby, unlike Polaris in the north. Polaris itself is not always the north star. Due to the Earth’s axial precession, the position of the north celestial pole will shift. Twenty centuries ago, the north celestial pole was closer to Kochab than Polaris. All the observed facts are only possible if the Earth is a sphere, and impossible to happen if the Earth were flat.
I was an Air Force RC-135 navigator back in the 80-90s. Celestial navigation works well in good flight conditions. When away from land we had to shoot cell every 20 minutes, makes for a long day. We also used grid navigation (heading reference) when in polar regions. Very easy to make data extraction and computational mistakes.
Ahh, that clears that up then.. no more getting lost for me!
Absolutely love this
In the old days they had pilots, navigators, radio operators and flight engineers. It is amazing how technology has reduced that to just two persons in the flight deck. With AI, one day airplanes will fly autonomously much like trams connecting terminals at airports.
Hats off! Amazing patient and skills. I would have throw it out of the window 10 times!
this is what the flying dutchman uses, and its still finding its way home !
Interesting, I may look further into this and try to compute my location just to get a feel for how it was done. I was thinking some nav guys could do this quickly and accurately. Though need to locate books with tables. I have used log tables back in 1970s when calculators were making their debut. And I learned how to interpolate.
I remember at that time I got a 7th place log tables, a US GPO book from the 1930s, big thick and small print as there were a lot of numbers. Obviously very dated. It is long gone but I read such books were produced when govt hired out of work mathematicians to compute 7th place log tables and trig tables. This later paid off during Manhattan Project where many did lots of calculations requiring high precision.
It's amazing to think they had no computer or even calculators and were using books table for transcendental functions. They must have been very sharp and clear thinkers, not swamped and clouded by overuse of computer graphics.
@@goognamgoognw6637 : Thank you. Your assessment of my having been a "very sharp and clear thinker" is much appreciated! - USAF Navigator, B-52H and C-130E, 1989-2009, Retired.
@@justincase5272 Given your service dates my compliment did not apply to you. I said : before the age of computers and calculators. Any reasonably vigilant dumbass can use a computer. So you're getting a kick in the rear instead for trying to steal a compliment not addressed to you.
@@justincase5272 There are very few certified flight navigators left in the USA. The last count was around 49 certified on record with the FAA. It’s a shame that no one can get a rating for it because no one teaches the course anymore and we cannot locate anyone with examining authority. The rating may not be needed with today’s GPS, however, it sure is an interesting subject matter that few can master and many would like to learn.
@@Somethingisntright64 We may have to relearn it soon. Russia tested a missile that destroys satellites. Disabling GPS would make it harder for our armed forces to navigate.
At least we will not have to worry about log tables to seven digits.
Children of the Magenta Line, take heed!
Glad I learned this in Nav School at 'Mother'. Pilots did not have the intelligence level to learns such a complicated aviation tool. That's why pilots go where Navs tell him to go. Pilots are the chauffeur.
That's one of the first things we have to learn as boy scouts, I'm sure today most people won't find their way out if not for cellphones
Dont forget to keep an eye on cyl. Head temp and manifold pressure at the same time. Hopefully you calculate correctly so you know if you need to throw all extra weight overboard depending on the amount of fuel you have to get where you're going.
The USAAF wasn't in the business of doing solo flights over the Atlantic. These navigators would be providing course info to the pilots they worked for, not flying the plane directly. (Though some autopilot systems from this era could have their heading controlled remotely by the navigator)
Tell that to Amilia Erhard...
That's the copilot's job.
Draw straws or just get volunteered?
Or if in doubt, put your squadron number on the compass and fly that heading to get home.
And Slide Rules in aircraft engine development! 🤓
I should not watch this while drinking.
This shit is complicated
Route recalculating
But what about flat Earth ?
Yes, we know you understood absolutely nothing in that video.
That's an inferior model to be honest... too many holes
@@tiberiu_nicolae I know I was being sarcastic
@@tiberiu_nicolae : Just one, but it's a doozy, and the Earth sits in the middle.
Just use binoculars to find familiar landmarks in every direction. If you hit the ice wall, you've gone too far.
major issues,
1 the celestial sphere is an azimuth projection,, has nothing to do with earth, you are the center.
You get the angle to the star, find true north, measure azimuth angle for position, with the time.
Direction of heading and location 🤠
no toy globe needed
Except the geometry is based off star light being parallel, bye bye flat earth. Celestial sphere not celestial plane.
@iveneverseensuchbehaviorin5367 geometry is based off of the dead level horizon (flat) and celestial disc or plane... botched globe distortion introduces arcs which of course are conveniently ignored in celestial calculations 😉
First words of this video:
"To be useful to the aerial navigator, positions in the celestial sphere must be transferred to the earth."
So, because we must maintain that earth is a globe we ignore the actual observation because for the earth to be a globe we have to invert it. The sky is flat¿
Let me guess, geometry was an opt-in subject and you decided to opt out. Correct?
Globe confirmed 💯🌎
Either the sky is flat or the earth is flat!! Is the "horizon" horizontal?
According to your inverted math, the sky is flat...
We need the geographic position of the celestial body. That's how the intercept method works. Is this too difficult?
FLAT EARTH!!
Flat earth foiled by celestial navigation
FAT EARTH
This is silly,all they had to do was to look at their cell phones
What a crock, no navigator ever used a globe.
guess you didnt watch
ua-cam.com/video/eG29HrU6Slw/v-deo.html
I'll gust leave this here.
Globe confirmed 💯🌎
WOW, coodoos to navigators. Talk about booooring.
9 min in and no mention yet of North star? Lotta nonsense and talk about fake space tho... and zenith TVs I guess the sextant had been eliminated as well. Many sailors have been lost making such calculations on a "Globe" model. 👌👌👌 The Flight of the Navigator i suppose was one piloted by lost peoples
This is apparently part of a series of videos on celestial navigation. Other concepts were probably introduced in previous videos.
And many more sailors have fallen of the edge of the earth I suppose?
@one giant lie for mankind. You're stupid. Long before GPS, navigators used a device called ‘sextant’ to determine the angle of a celestial body. From that data, the latitude of their current location can be determined.
This can only happen if the Earth is spherical.
In the Northern hemisphere, navigators usually used Polaris. Using a sextant, they measured the angle between Polaris and the horizon. The angle would be very close to the latitude of their current position.
In the Southern hemisphere, they did the same thing but with the south celestial pole. The problem is that there’s no bright star close to the south celestial pole, unlike Polaris in the North. So, they used the nearby Crux and Pointer stars to determine the approximate location of the south celestial pole. The angle between the south celestial pole and the horizon is the same as the latitude of the observer.
In the Northern hemisphere, the southern celestial pole is not visible. And conversely, in the Southern hemisphere, Polaris is not visible. So, there’s no ambiguity on which star to aim.
Celestial navigation is possible only because the Earth is spherical. We make use of the knowledge of the correct figure of the Earth for the purposes of navigation. This is how our ancestors were able to travel to the other side of the world (and back to the original location) without the modern technology we have today.
The angle (or altitude) to Polaris approximately corresponds to the latitude of the observer. This fact is observed on every location on Earth where Polaris is visible.
By tracing the path to Polaris from multiple locations on the flat Earth model, the lines will not point to a consistent position of Polaris. The reason is that the Earth is a sphere and the flat Earth model does not represent reality.
The position of Polaris today is conveniently very close to the north celestial pole. And therefore, the altitude or the angle between horizon and Polaris can be used to determine the approximate observer’s latitude.
South of the equator, Polaris is not visible and obviously cannot be used for navigation. Polaris is below the horizon and obstructed by the Earth. It is necessary to locate the south celestial pole in the sky to determine the observer’s latitude. It is more difficult as there is no bright star nearby, unlike Polaris in the north.
Polaris itself is not always the north star. Due to the Earth’s axial precession, the position of the north celestial pole will shift. Twenty centuries ago, the north celestial pole was closer to Kochab than Polaris.
All the observed facts are only possible if the Earth is a sphere, and impossible to happen if the Earth were flat.
"guess the sextant had been eliminated as well" wrong.