This is by far the most important subject to talk about. Unfortunatelly many agents do not understand this simple priciple, and want to believe that they own the photos. More photographers need to start licensing their images instead of just charging for a session. In due time, everyone will license their real estate images... Penalties for infringement are stiff, and some will have to pay the price. Thanks for the video, well done!
Great information, and still a question that many Realtors and Photographers grapple with. Thank you for the great explanation! We'd love to have you on the Spiro Podcast to share this with our listeners, and help them get plugged into your channel as well!
This popped up in my feed today :). I’ll push back just a touch. I was a Realtor for 13 years and constantly used the best photos from my listings to market myself and my business through social media posts and on my website. For example, if I listed a million dollar loft a photo from that listing may be used as the header on my “selling” page. Every realtor I know who is successful on social media does this all the time. So generally I’d argue that sophisticated real estate professionals use this good listing photography long after the property is sold.
Dylan Garrison I mean, of course. I tried to do this in under 5 minutes so I’m speaking more in general terms. If you have a client who deals with million dollar homes, you are likely going to have some other arrangement for them. I allow my clients to use the images for their own marketing purposes.
Work for hire almost always means that whoever is hiring or employing you holds the Copyright. You'll need to review the agreement terms carefully and contact an attorney for legal advice though.
Well explained.. and necessary information to spread out and teach costumers. So easy when you are working with an agent that represent your work. Contracts are always a good tool.. they show how serious and professional you are. Kind regards, Jose
Very good video. Thanks. I am going to reference the link to this video for future clients who quibble about ownership. ALL photographers should know about copyright. Unfortunately many don't, and they give their images away. That then taints the expectations of RE agents who think they own the photos anytime they hire a photographer. Some agencies expect photographers to sign over copyright, with which I have no problem, as RE photos have a short shelf life for me and have little value beyond the initial photo shoot. But if I think the images have a resale potential for stock photography then that is a different conversation. :)
@@JRDNPWRS No problem at all, always happy to support my fellow content creators. I am looking forward to improving on my own current video format I have uploaded and, in the future, trying to create content as good as yours in the long-term.
Greg Smith I don’t have any experience in that genre specifically but the same principles should still apply. I would contact some peers in that industry to get a better idea of the going rates and how they handle it.
@@GYMR05 Hi Greg, i do some in the UK . I usually give them a basic licence that covers their website and social media included in with the days shoot price, anything outside of this will be extra and can be negotiated. If you check onilne for A.O.P calculator i use this, its free and it will give you a baseline figure its all quite new to me and confusing at times
Do you ever work without a licence? i find it very difficult in the UK, especially with local authorities to actually get work if you licence. most of my work at the moment it shoot fees but i retain copyright to images. nice video
An important factor not addressed here is that Realtors almost always use the photos on the MLS and the MLS will likely have its own requirements regarding copyright, licensing and ownership. See below for an excerpt from our local MLS rules and regs. Do you have recommendations on how to take this into account? 11.5 Media on the MLS. a) Media is defined as any depiction or expression of works including, but not limited to, photographs, images, drawings, renderings, audio, video, and virtual tours. b) By submitting any media to the MLS, the Participant and Subscriber represent and warrant that they own the right to reproduce and display the media or they have procured such rights and all necessary licenses from appropriate parties. c) The submitting Participant and Subscriber grants CRMLS an irrevocable, unrestricted, transferable, perpetual, royalty-free, non-exclusive license (with right to sublicense) to use, store, reproduce, compile, display and distribute the media as part of its compilation. d) Use of media by any subsequent Participant and Subscriber requires prior written authorization from the submitting Participant and Subscriber or other appropriate party with the legal right to grant such authorization.
Yeah, this is one of those subjects where it would be best to talk with an attorney. My take is this... and I’m not saying everyone should think this way, it for me MLS related copyright issues are not worth even thinking about when it comes to real estate photography. As far as I’m concerned the agent is using them to market a property and that is what I’ve licensed them to do. Listing on the MLS is part of that. Where it would cross the line is if the local MLS decided to start using my photographs for their own marketing... which will basically never happen. I know there was at least one instance where Zillow (not the MLS) was sued by a photographer for copyright infringement. I don’t know the details beyond that because I think this is one of those extremely few and far between circumstances that will likely never happen. I wanted this video to be more of a conversation we could have with our clients so that they better understand how we operate as photographers. There are so many things... even important things... that I’m sure I didn’t cover. This is just 5 minutes of crammed info. I’m not sure if that helps or not - but thank you so much for watching!
@@JRDNPWRS Thank you for the response! Very helpful. Often the practical answer is more important and valuable than the "legal" answer. I appreciate your content and insight. Keep it up!
Kirk Villamor I would, but that is stepping into those legal things. General suggestion would be to search what others are using, refine it for yourself, and then have an attorney look at it. I know.... Not a super satisfying answer. It is just the safest (and most professional) thing you can do.
Good information. A little wordy in the beginning. The music analogy was good but then I'd rather you cut to the chase right afterwards to the real estate photography. It's going to lose Realtor's in the technical jargon.
Thanks for the feedback. 1st - I'm a wordy person , lol. 2nd - I think that for the vast majority of people, all of this is foreign so for those who are even semi-familiar with this... it will be wordy and jargony. I'm not looking to make a perfect tutorial here, this is just a brief overview of my understanding of it in the way that I communicate. Not for everyone :) Thanks again for watching and for the feedback!
*Copyright Registration:* If you’re licensing or selling creative media (photographs, paintings, videos, artworks, music, literary works, etc.) and that’s a MAJOR component of your business, those copyrights NEED to be *“TIMELY”* registered with the US Copyright Office! To receive the *FULLEST* legal protection against non-Fair Use copyright infringers, your photographs MUST(!) be *“timely”* registered with the US Copyright Office, *either* BEFORE the infringement begins *or* registered WITHIN three-months of their “first-publication date” (typically the day you start selling/listing, licensing, sharing, or the day you deliver your images to a client or to stock or to make your images available for further distribution). See the federal copyright statutes: 17 USC § 412 (Registration as prerequisite to certain remedies for infringement) + 17 USC § 504 (Remedies for infringement: Damages and profits) + 17 USC § 505 (Remedies for infringement: Costs and attorney’s fees). If you miss those two window opportunities to register, you can ONLY pursue “actual damages” (typically the missed licensing fee you should have received, and that tends to be LOW vs. the infringement dollar amount) and the disgorgement of unlawful profits the infringer made (if any). *As a general rule, infringed photographs not timely registered are NOT enforceable for money damages, as any out-of-court settlement or trial verdict will NOT cover your attorney fees - making it un-economical to pursue copyright infringers.* Joshua Kaufman, a NYC copyright attorney/litigator, sums up (timely) copyright registration in the first 20-seconds of his short video: ua-cam.com/video/cBOKkrleY3Y/v-deo.html
This is by far the most important subject to talk about.
Unfortunatelly many agents do not understand this simple priciple, and want to believe that they own the photos. More photographers need to start licensing their images instead of just charging for a session. In due time, everyone will license their real estate images...
Penalties for infringement are stiff, and some will have to pay the price.
Thanks for the video, well done!
Thanks for the input, Peter. Totally agree!
Great information, and still a question that many Realtors and Photographers grapple with. Thank you for the great explanation! We'd love to have you on the Spiro Podcast to share this with our listeners, and help them get plugged into your channel as well!
This popped up in my feed today :). I’ll push back just a touch. I was a Realtor for 13 years and constantly used the best photos from my listings to market myself and my business through social media posts and on my website. For example, if I listed a million dollar loft a photo from that listing may be used as the header on my “selling” page. Every realtor I know who is successful on social media does this all the time. So generally I’d argue that sophisticated real estate professionals use this good listing photography long after the property is sold.
Dylan Garrison I mean, of course. I tried to do this in under 5 minutes so I’m speaking more in general terms. If you have a client who deals with million dollar homes, you are likely going to have some other arrangement for them. I allow my clients to use the images for their own marketing purposes.
This video is great, and the analogy with iTunes music purchase is something I'll use to explain to people. High level, but helpful.
Thanks for watching! Glad it was helpful. Again, I am not a lawyer so just use with caution :)
How does “Work for hire” agreement affect the copyright?
Work for hire almost always means that whoever is hiring or employing you holds the Copyright. You'll need to review the agreement terms carefully and contact an attorney for legal advice though.
Well explained.. and necessary information to spread out and teach costumers. So easy when you are working with an agent that represent your work. Contracts are always a good tool.. they show how serious and professional you are. Kind regards, Jose
jose manuel alorda thank you!
Great video - net’s everything out in a straightforward manner. I’ve used that music analogy for years. Thanks Much
Sure thing! Thanks so much for watching!
Very good video. Thanks. I am going to reference the link to this video for future clients who quibble about ownership. ALL photographers should know about copyright. Unfortunately many don't, and they give their images away. That then taints the expectations of RE agents who think they own the photos anytime they hire a photographer. Some agencies expect photographers to sign over copyright, with which I have no problem, as RE photos have a short shelf life for me and have little value beyond the initial photo shoot. But if I think the images have a resale potential for stock photography then that is a different conversation. :)
Thanks so much! Totally agree!
really good content JRDNPWRS. I broke the thumbs up on your video. Always keep up the solid work.
Appreciate that! Thanks
@@JRDNPWRS No problem at all, always happy to support my fellow content creators. I am looking forward to improving on my own current video format I have uploaded and, in the future, trying to create content as good as yours in the long-term.
Do you have any advice on construction photography?
Greg Smith I don’t have any experience in that genre specifically but the same principles should still apply. I would contact some peers in that industry to get a better idea of the going rates and how they handle it.
JRDNPWRS will do. Thanks.
@@GYMR05 Hi Greg, i do some in the UK . I usually give them a basic licence that covers their website and social media included in with the days shoot price, anything outside of this will be extra and can be negotiated.
If you check onilne for A.O.P calculator i use this, its free and it will give you a baseline figure
its all quite new to me and confusing at times
Thanks for taking the time to make and upload this informative video.
I wish i knew UK photogs that talk about this. Real simple explanation
Not sure how similar it is in the UK - I would imagine the basic principals are the same?
Do you ever work without a licence?
i find it very difficult in the UK, especially with local authorities to actually get work if you licence.
most of my work at the moment it shoot fees but i retain copyright to images.
nice video
Love it!! Very easy to digest! 👍
This is really great stuff Jordan!
Thanks so much! Thanks for watching
Great Video, thank you
Thank you!
@@JRDNPWRS No problem
An important factor not addressed here is that Realtors almost always use the photos on the MLS and the MLS will likely have its own requirements regarding copyright, licensing and ownership. See below for an excerpt from our local MLS rules and regs. Do you have recommendations on how to take this into account?
11.5 Media on the MLS.
a) Media is defined as any depiction or expression of works including, but not limited to, photographs, images, drawings, renderings, audio, video, and virtual tours.
b) By submitting any media to the MLS, the Participant and Subscriber represent and warrant that they own the right to reproduce and display the media or they have procured such rights and all necessary licenses from appropriate parties.
c) The submitting Participant and Subscriber grants CRMLS an irrevocable, unrestricted, transferable, perpetual, royalty-free, non-exclusive license (with right to sublicense) to use, store, reproduce, compile, display and distribute the media as part of its compilation.
d) Use of media by any subsequent Participant and Subscriber requires prior written authorization from the submitting Participant and Subscriber or other appropriate party with the legal right to grant such authorization.
Yeah, this is one of those subjects where it would be best to talk with an attorney. My take is this... and I’m not saying everyone should think this way, it for me MLS related copyright issues are not worth even thinking about when it comes to real estate photography. As far as I’m concerned the agent is using them to market a property and that is what I’ve licensed them to do. Listing on the MLS is part of that. Where it would cross the line is if the local MLS decided to start using my photographs for their own marketing... which will basically never happen. I know there was at least one instance where Zillow (not the MLS) was sued by a photographer for copyright infringement. I don’t know the details beyond that because I think this is one of those extremely few and far between circumstances that will likely never happen. I wanted this video to be more of a conversation we could have with our clients so that they better understand how we operate as photographers. There are so many things... even important things... that I’m sure I didn’t cover. This is just 5 minutes of crammed info. I’m not sure if that helps or not - but thank you so much for watching!
@@JRDNPWRS Thank you for the response! Very helpful. Often the practical answer is more important and valuable than the "legal" answer. I appreciate your content and insight. Keep it up!
Really helpful video: essential viewing for photographers, as well as clients looking to commission photography: thank you !
Thank you for watching!
Can you do a video, detailing on making a license for the photos? Thanks! (^_^)
Kirk Villamor I would, but that is stepping into those legal things. General suggestion would be to search what others are using, refine it for yourself, and then have an attorney look at it. I know.... Not a super satisfying answer. It is just the safest (and most professional) thing you can do.
Did your job sir I thank you
Good information. A little wordy in the beginning. The music analogy was good but then I'd rather you cut to the chase right afterwards to the real estate photography. It's going to lose Realtor's in the technical jargon.
Thanks for the feedback. 1st - I'm a wordy person , lol. 2nd - I think that for the vast majority of people, all of this is foreign so for those who are even semi-familiar with this... it will be wordy and jargony. I'm not looking to make a perfect tutorial here, this is just a brief overview of my understanding of it in the way that I communicate. Not for everyone :)
Thanks again for watching and for the feedback!
*Copyright Registration:* If you’re licensing or selling creative media (photographs, paintings, videos, artworks, music, literary works, etc.) and that’s a MAJOR component of your business, those copyrights NEED to be *“TIMELY”* registered with the US Copyright Office!
To receive the *FULLEST* legal protection against non-Fair Use copyright infringers, your photographs MUST(!) be *“timely”* registered with the US Copyright Office, *either* BEFORE the infringement begins *or* registered WITHIN three-months of their “first-publication date” (typically the day you start selling/listing, licensing, sharing, or the day you deliver your images to a client or to stock or to make your images available for further distribution).
See the federal copyright statutes: 17 USC § 412 (Registration as prerequisite to certain remedies for infringement) + 17 USC § 504 (Remedies for infringement: Damages and profits) + 17 USC § 505 (Remedies for infringement: Costs and attorney’s fees).
If you miss those two window opportunities to register, you can ONLY pursue “actual damages” (typically the missed licensing fee you should have received, and that tends to be LOW vs. the infringement dollar amount) and the disgorgement of unlawful profits the infringer made (if any).
*As a general rule, infringed photographs not timely registered are NOT enforceable for money damages, as any out-of-court settlement or trial verdict will NOT cover your attorney fees - making it un-economical to pursue copyright infringers.*
Joshua Kaufman, a NYC copyright attorney/litigator, sums up (timely) copyright registration in the first 20-seconds of his short video: ua-cam.com/video/cBOKkrleY3Y/v-deo.html