CrossFit XEBEX Rower Comparison: CrossFit XEBEX Rower Controversy TESTED!
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- Опубліковано 22 гру 2024
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CrossFit came out and banned the Xebex Rower from future CrossFit events. Was this the right decision? Let's find out!
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If you want to make a proper comparison, here is my suggestion. Take a xebex that wasn’t specifically sent to a review page (just for 100% clarity) and do long distance work at a specific pace. Say for example 20 mins at 1000cal/hr then rest until you’re fully recovered and do the same on the c2 rower. Here is the important part *use a heart rate monitor* and see if holding the same pace is less demanding on either machine. If your heart rate is lower on the xebex then it’s easier to row on a xebex - simple. Make sure heart rate has gone down to resting hr before doing the second test. Love the page coop, keep up the good work.
That's a great idea. I really don't think Xebex did something special to the rower before sending it. There are many before me that have agreed that the calories of both the new Xebex and Concept 2 track similarly.
They seem to cost about the same. As a home gym owner I can't think of any reason NOT to buy the Concept 2. They have a stellar reputation for durability and ease of repair if they do break. And don't forget resale value. You can use your C2 for years and still sell it for nearly what you paid for it new
All great points.
Coop, you did 18 full pulls on the Xebex and only 16 full pulls on the Concept 2. You seemed to be doing longer, more powerful strokes on the Concept 2 and shorter, choppier strokes on the Xebex. I have owned the Xebex AR-2 for about a year and a half and am overall happy with it. I don't row for calories on my rower, but I have rowed several hundred thousand meters for time on it and there is a significant difference in times between the Xebex AR-2 and the Concept 2. I can row 1:27 500 on a Xebex AR-2 but I row about a 1:35 500 on a Concept 2. My best 2000 time on a Xebex AR-2 is 6:12 and I row a 6:55 2000 on a Concept 2. I've never used the AR-3 that you're testing in your video though which has a new monitor that is supposed to calculate calories differently. It would be great if you could do a review of the Xebex skierg.
Great data, appreciate that Barry!
A big thing I noticed was during Coop's go, he had great form with with full lean back and extension on the Concept but had less than stellar form on the Xebex like someone new to rowing.
I don't know if this had to do with his comfort level with the Xebex being noticeably taller, but that can definitely play a role in time, especially over the course of a much longer row.
I'm sure if someone cared enough, they could rig up a machine to do exactly the same amount of work on both machines for exactly the same amount of time.
I'd like to see this as well.
I have been on both, they don't pull the same. Them sending you one out doesn't mean it's like every other one
In my opinion. Of course they needed damage control for what it exposed in the OPEN. Who better than a respected page, but I don't feel personally they are the same on any one I've been on. I'm not partial to concept 2 for any reason just my opinion based on every xebex I've been on and my experience. Maybe they calibrated the one they sent you differently, who knows but xebex.
Is yours the first version or 2nd version?
He showed in video it was a new one xebex sent him and he showed them unboxing it and assembly. That's was my point, who says this is same? I know in my experience xebex was way easier to get cals on firsthand, and everyone joked about it being so much easier to get cals. If they make it natch calibration wise cool, but as it was in my experience they all were much faster for cals.
if its going to be used in competition its only logical everyone uses the same one right? it seems pure logic to me.
This is a smart video...not everyone approaches reviews the way you do man. Thanks for setting the standard!
Appreciate it!
The cracking sound the xebex rower makes would drive me nuts.
Yeah, hoping that goes away. May just be because it's new.
what I want to know is whether Crossfit has accepted xebex offer to test the equipment out..and if they did, what's the outcome.
From what I've heard, they have not. This may have changed, however.
But Coop, your forgetting one very important thing- concept2 and Crossfit have an excellent working business relationship. If all the sudden a new rower can give you a slight score advantage, there's LOTS of Crossfit obsessed people who will go and buy the xebex instead of the concept2! That's bad for business!!
Daniel Cook as a collegiate rower, the only rower anyone takes seriously is c2, it’s literally 100% unacceptable for any rower to even think about using any different machine and this is with clubs that have zero affiliation with c2 and have to buy them second-hand or retail price.
I agree that if youre a rower the C2 is vital, but this video is made because of the controversy of Crossfit "banning" non concept 2 rowers from their competition
If the first version had rubbish calibration and was easier to get calories on, it had to be banned from the competition.
It also begs the question of why didn't Xebex make it match the C2's calorie measurement from the start, especially if they are going to try and break into C2's market!
I have been following your channel for over a year now, and now i have a questions. What are your thoughts on VULCAN SCULL ROWER. Thank you for your feedback.
in my opinoin everyone should have to compete on the same model.
I'm new to rowing, well after I buy a rower, and I noticed both of you did a quick jerk after the first pull, is there a reason why?
Also, did you get to keep the rower? This test is about as dodgey as a xfit competitor
That's great that they tracked about the same, but the pull on the C2 seemed much longer than the Xebex. Is there anything to that?
May have just been my rowing. Didn't notice it during use.
Listen to the sound of the machine . The c2 the fan is having to work a lot harder . The drag / damper at 10 isn’t the same . That’s where the issue is . It’s not as hard to row on the xebex .
It looks like my concept II rower took a lot less assembly. True?
Possibly
Another excellent review from GGR! Thanks Coop. We appreciate your insight bro on all things related to fitness.
Y se puede adaptar la consola PM5 en el Remo Xebex???
Is the sound haere on the concept2 ?
As someone who has 0 interest in CrossFit, I think you sold me on the Xebex rower whenever I get around to buying one (aka can shell out $900). The price and the free stuff they bundle in makes it really appealing. I like the way it folds up also (shown in another video on this channel for ppl interested)
For those that don't compete in CrossFit, it's a great option.
In the 18.1 announcement Dave Castro specifically said “calories on the concept 2 rower”. And it seems awfully suspicious that the top two scores (before they were taken down) were both on Xebex rowers.
The issue came from the fact that Dave Castro said it had to be a concept 2 rowers in the announcement, just trying to keep everything as uniform as possible
Gotcha, I didn't notice that.
What's the prowler-like sled with wheels that's behind you on the wall in your final remarks?
That's the XPO Sled. Here's a review: www.garagegymreviews.com/armored-fitness-xpo-trainer-sled-review/
Thanks Coop!
Kinda suspicious that they sent you a rower to test...
My guess is they'd like to get the attention of CrossFit, Inc so they'll eventually test them for themselves.
tin foil hat firmly on I see
For rowers you need to consider the width of the foot placements which affects the power generated from the legs, the height, length and incline of the rail and seats for more accurate measurements and not just the monitors. A few mm difference can greatly affect the power generated from each stroke. Ex. training vs lifting shoes; the height and density of the heel can greatly affect the amount of weight you can do on lifts.
Thanks Copper. Great video as always. I order concept 2 today.
You're welcome!
It is interesting that people find the concept 2 monitor so infallible at this point. As an Electrical Engineer it would be super easy to modify the counter in the code or the sensor and cheat the cals I rowed. That is why there are multiple events, judging, and video review. It comes out in the gravy as they say, rowing is usually only 1 component of 1-2 events.
Completely agree. Great points.
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding the concept, but as far as I know, your score is counted globally and is posted against other competitors in different parts of the world. If that's the case, then only one rower should be used to ensure that results are consistent and to eliminate any potential discrepancies. If the Xebex rowers are allowed in competitions, then different barbells, weight plates, GHDs, sandbags and sleds should all be allowed as well. My two cents.
It needs to be a more controld test, machine pulling the same. The fact that you are able to see the monitor makes it worse. But thats just my tougth😁
That would be great, just no way for me to perform that test.
Yo tengo la Máquina de Remo Xebex....y me encantaría poder adaptarle la consola de la Concept 2 PM5
You know you can (at least on a concept 2) check the actual resistance in the menu to ensure they are set right? The resistance on the erg decreases over time and you cannot just use the numbers on the damper lever. Without checking the drag factor the test isn't really valid - compare the drag factors of a 5 year old C2 to a brand new one on the same damper setting and there will be a huge difference. If the Xebex cannot do that it is useless for actual rowers who want the drag factor set as close to water resistance levels as possible.
Same question could be said if they bring air bikes into the open. Do I need to purchase an assault brand where there are other comparable branded bikes?
Glen Porteous I would hold off on that seeing as Rogue just launched their Echo bike. And we all know Crossfit HQ is in bed with Rogue
Hope not because the Assault bike is a piece of crap unlike the c2 rower. Airdyne AD8 is the best and rogue bike seems to be equally good but slightly cheaper
Sounds like CF HQ banned the xebex rower from this year's Open season because people were using the first older version of the xebex, which as you admitted, does track calories differently. Hopefully next year people will be able to prove they are using a 2nd edition Xebex and that will be allowed. Doubtful though haha
Can I get a link for those training pants and belt?
"LINK IN THE BIO!"
Do you think the Xebex Rower should be banned from competition? Let me know!
Garage Gym Reviews I believe everyone should use the same rower.
Walter Thomas agreed or else i could just use a lighter barbell would be the same
not at all, I think people making the case that crossfit HQ wants to stay partnered with concept 2 dont understand that adding more cheap viable rowers means more people can get into the sport since a rower is one of the most expensive garage gym components right now (especially since the concept 2 has such a high resale value).
Well he could have possibly worked his ass off after his first open and come back strong. Also he did not make regionals with his scores. Of course we want an even playing field for all, if the monitors provide very similar results then I dont see why they shouldnt allow other brands.
Also the infallible concept 2 rower is calibrated at the factory which means different rowers can have their calibration changed, changing the chain, adjusting bearings, greasing, etc. There are plenty of ways that are actually extremely easy to cheat if you really wanted to cheat on your rowing scores with the concept 2.
i think CF HQ should have considered the Xebex rower model which you reviewed. Yes maybe it should be banned for this open. However, it should be tested thoroughly this year so that a specific model of the Xebex is close enough to 95%> confidence limit so that it can be used for next years open. my 2cents
2 seconds is 10% difference
But that was on my row. There was hardly any difference on the other guys. I'm not saying they're exact. What I'm saying is they're close enough that CrossFit, Inc should test them.
What was the wattage rating for all 4 trials? Why not do a 1 k 2k with an average rower not someone pulling over 3100 watts. From what I have read and I do not have experience with it is that calories count easier and even the time to row a 1k 2k is drastically different.
Jim in the Gym brought me here 👍🏾
Technically you should do multiple tests
I'm sure this is repeat of what a lot of people have already. You've showed they're similar for a donated unit at approx 40s/m and 3000 cal/hr. Way faster than even most of the elites were rowing at. What happens when you lower the power output? Say 26 s/m and 1000 cal/hr (approx what I did during that workout, I'm out of shape these days, lol).
We all know that it takes more "meters" to row the same number of calories when rowing at lower "speeds" vs higher "speeds". So I postulate that if these two rowers did use slightly different performance algorithms, that those differences would be highlighted at lower power outputs, not higher ones.
That’s great, hopefully they will look at this video and rethink the matter
I agree Gary!
Gary Priest sounds like butt hurt
Coop... Your the real *hero* ;)
Thanks for doing this. Mo' data would be mo' bettah. The best would be a mechanical device that could work both machines. Failing that, just having more people repeat your test, alternating which machine they use first, would be great. Again, thanks.
I'd love to see that as well!
Very troubling your comment that the two machine's monitors track the same. The reason according to internet sources is that xebex reverse engineered the Concept2 software. I'm all for competition but unfair competition is just that, unfair. This reflects on your own reviews when you promote a copycat.
I don't believe the way a cardio machine is designed to track calories in a similar manner as a machine that is pretty much the standard is a bad thing for anyone. Competition is good for the consumer and my reviews are consumer focused. I didn't say the Xebex rower was better than the C2, I said it tracks calories similarly at a slightly lower price.
Also, I'm not promoting products; I'm giving real, in-depth, honest reviews and have for years.
I would be more concerned about all the clicking and creaking noises compare between both. The concept was quieter.
Nice ROUGE set up dude! Love it!
Even if you're looking at rower at HALF the cost of the Concept 2, it's just worth it. When the pandemic hit, I got what I could, and ended up with a sub 400 dollar rower that wasn't terrible, but was obviously no Concept 2 and was not going to last 3 years old semi regular use, let alone 10 or 15 like C2 will - and that you would be able to buy parts for if/when it does fail. At that time, it was less of financial decision than it was of availability. I would have been better served getting on the C2 waitlist and burning calories in the interim on something else. Unless there some reason you NEED a rower tomorrow and only have money for a cheaper one, just hold out and get the Concept 2.
I'm not even into rowing and I can see the Concept2 is more of an intense workout.
Concept 2 is a proven machine the other one is there to take sale away from the concept 2 I'm buying the concept2 with dual slide it's is one of best out there and for the money it's is the winner in my book and proved to be reliably in gyms all over the world.
Yes. The C2 is the one and should continue as such.
Love every video
Thanks James!
Going full speed on the row is not a comparison of 2 rowers, far from it. The only similarity is that they are 2 rowers.
Starting from the basics you have to know that the rowers can be set to the exact same drag factor so that the resistance is the same.
The next step is to ensure that you can pull the rower with the same calories and exact same stroke rate but over a longer time for example 30min.
This comparison is like comparing 2 hotdogs… not worth nothing.
The comparison made by the CrossFit Games in the update show was having a CrossFit Games Athlete shown rowing against a novice on a Xebex Rower for 14 calories. We recreated that, but with the same person rowing. The reason CrossFit banned it was because they felt it tracked calories differently, which the first version did. However, the second version, in this test, ended up being pretty similar. (Also, the drag factors for both rowers were set on 10, which was said near the end of the video.)
But as you yourself mentioned in your original video that compared the two rowers. The Concept 2 can display it's drag factor so that different versions/ages of C2 can all be matched. The Xebex doesn't (I assume still doesn't) have that option.
The monitor is not the issue, it's the power sensors/strain gauges
You can’t have people using different equipment for an international competition the size of the open. Particularly when Xebex has acknowledged that one of their models has a different calibration .
Do all barbells weigh exactly 45 lbs? Do all plates and dumbbells weigh exactly what they state? It's impossible to not have slight discrepancies between equipment when the net is so large.
This is like saying I ran 50 meters in the same amount of time in my sketchers as my Nikes, so they are the same quality shoe... and the fact you used damper as a unit of measure rather than drag factor and wattage disqualifies the validity of this review even further.
In your side by side video, your stroke rates were much different. That will affect the calorie output. For a true comparison, you need to keep as many variables as possible equal.
Good point!
Shouldn't any event held by crossfit be all using the same equipment anyway wether it's one or the other, using mixed equipment sounds odd to me in the first place
Should everyone use the same plates and bar too?
Garage Gym Reviews in theory yes, or if events are going to use different equipment it should be tested by a board to make sure it's within any parameters it needs to be in, so you don't end up with controversies such as this.
Whats with the quick rows coop does on the C2? Crossfitters even learned how to kip on the rower now? 😂
This Xebex Rower is not the same that people was using in the open, they have a different display
similar doesn't mean "the same". because it's a worldwide test, you should use the same things. like you use the same kilos or pounds.
a test has standards. if not, it is not a test.
Wow guys. Did you even watch the videos of the top two scores when they were first released? Just watching the row times not knowing anything about the rowers, I knew something was very odd. There was a definite advantage to those rowers that those two guys used. They were literally getting off the rower in 10 pulls around 24 seconds and well into the later rounds of the workout when they couldn't go "all out" like you guys did in this demo. The proof was in the videos. Last year they did the same to the metal plates being used on the barbell with the burpees over bar. Unfair advantage.
No doubt. BUT, they were using the first Xebex model. This new one tracks completely differently. That's why the video was made.
The handle on the xebex is seriously flawed. The resistance of the handles pulls you in so strongly its very annoying on the forearms.
Unfortunately this test is not really reliable. There are standardized tests, with machines, not humans, performing a long distance tests.
The first guy did the concept first and them jumped tired to the xebex. Also, only two individuals doesn't make a statistic universe.
But if they have a model out there that they know and acknowledge doesn't track the same isn't that enough to be disqualifying? How can you prove your monitor is one of the ones that does work as opposed to one that the manufacturer appears to have admitted is problematic? Better to just say Xebex is out I think.
The old and new monitors look completely different.
Yeah maybe long term you could figure something out, I think short term (at least for this season) just saying you can't use xebex this season makes sense. Plenty of other stuff going on during the open season to put another thing people need to do out there.
Why buy anything other then a C2. If it's the standard, then it's the standard. If you want to compete in the open that is.
I could careless about crossfit and the zero pull ups. With that being said, For any competition including crossfit everyone and i mean EVERYONE should be using the same equipment. Which one 'i don't care'. ZEROOO
It would be difficult to perform a less scientific, less accurate test. Short duration with a high percentage of the time spent at the most difficult to measure startup time; coupled with uncalibrated human input, low resolution measurement units (whole seconds? In this test if you were off by just 1 second, it would introduce over 5% error in the result), and 2 tests performed at only 1 setting yields meaningless results.
It would not be difficult to build a test rig that input a precise amount of work to test and see how accurately the machines measured it. This would be performed repeatedly at different damper settings and environmental conditions to assure that the machines reported the same amount of work regardless. The Concept II claims to automatically account for this, does the xebex?
I understand the reason for the testing methodology but your testing methodology was horrible! Basing it open 14 cals? A bit too short for an actual test. Just like any basic test you should keep it more controlled and long term... keep the cals at 1000 output and at 1m-3m-5m-10m-15m markers on both devices. Then measure... also, you did mention but failed to show is that a lot of the videos, that were voided, did have the v1 of the monitors. For clarity on why it was "SUCH A SCANDAL" someone should show why its such a huge difference on a v1 monitor vs v2 monitor on Xebex and then people would understand why it was so dramatic.
The decision was not made out of function - crossfit is about money - every decision they make is influenced by monetary gain.
Or maybe they just wanted to keep things fair and not give an advantage to athletes using a flawed rower.
@Palle Kjaer Larusen Or maybe your're completely incapable of independent thought? You didn't even watch the video, did you?
But then you have the concept 2 rower glitch, at the one damper setting. So idk
True true
What glitch?
I need that rogue monster socket pull-up bar to match my cerakote Ohio bar aggrrr
That thing is beautiful!
Walker Robert Harris Amy Wilson Kenneth
Its a bad poor quality machine, i bought one and it wastn cheap, it came with crooked main gear, shifted to the right, so i cant use it and it cant be fixed, and overall this machine have awful noncomfortable seat and much lover resistance than concept2, handles are rock solid, so its just a bad product and cheap concept2 ripoff.
No.....stop the butt hurt. You score what you score
Crossfit is sponsored by Rogue.
other companies besides Rogue sell the Concept2 rower. Rogue does not make the Concept2 rower
And rogue does not make the concept 2 rower...
I dont care about Crossfit whatsoever. But rowing is my cardio of choice and the Xebek is awesome! Its better than the C2 if u ask me. Folds up, cheaper, and get some extras. Xebek all the way.
Glad you're happy with it, that's what matters!