Even the Great Luciano....after having sing so many the role of Manrico in the Original Key...he transpossed in the B at his 53!!!??!!!Go in the 1975-6-7 when he sang in the original key and he was 40+!!!And if he had to sing only the cabaletta he could sing it in the key!!But when you have to sang a whole opera...you must protect your voice and keep power!!Luciano sang High Cs as late as in 2003! (at 68!!) and on stage there are many recording like the Met's 1997 Ballo in Maschera and Turandot, where Maestro did not avoid the High Cs and sang them in full voice!!!
My favorites in the role are Bjorling and Corelli. I own the DVD of Pavarotti singing it at the Met, and I'm impressed by his performance of the role. He was very good.
Fuori repertorio, Pavarotti aveva una voce limitata evidentemente lei non ha mai sentito, le perfomance di del Monaco Bonisolli Tucker Nikolov Merli Filippeschi Marazoff Vichers Atlantov Corelli Barioni Giacomini e compagnia bella.
Pavarotti range limitato? E lo si compara a Bonisolli e Flippeschi? Ahahah vi ricordo corriam voliam di Pavarotti, addio speranza ed anima, possente amor mi chiama e o mio rimorso che i tenori elencati sotto non sono esattamente in grado.
I agree with you about the B natural in this performance. I was simply informing you of a live recording here on youtube. There is also one from1976 live here on youtube as well. Since you said "i've never seen him do it live" I though I'd inform you that he has infact done di quella pira live on several occasions.
He sang it numerous times in key. Especially before 1980. And he was Wonderful, check it on youtube. Nevertheless, most tenors sing the "pira" a half or even a tone down, and it sounds as glorious as in key. Pertile's in particular, transposed, was unbeliably. A high c is not everything, is it?
Just for accuracy on the subject of Pavarotti's vocal range, over his entire career , it was C♯3 - F5 . Therefore if he could hit an F5, he could quite easily make Verdi a very happy bunny.
verdi was an ignorant, he didnt know on vocal nothing. He was obsessed on sizes, on baries, they put baries on tenors roles, thats it. bari tomango forced everything, so how the grandmaster let that disaster to sing his heavymetall Otello? verdi didnt care on notes, even they were forced, size in verismo operatic trash were more valuable, but its just a timbres! A bunch of baries in tenors roles. Real tenors were not exist in opera, mosquitos were nothing long time, they didnt evdn teach a tenors to how sing
@bkmustang07 Oh he did it several times. In fact, search "di quella pira 1975" and you'll hear him do it with a slight hicup at the end. But he was a tad past his prime in 75.
@ulyg92 Sure, but 50 years for an opera singer is the golden age. In fact great singers mature from 40 to 50, from 50 to 60 it's their best time. Very few tenors sing this aria in key, and among those who do, few do it beautifuly, just schreaming it out:)
Are you kidding?? He's very old in this! There are numerous recordings where he does sing the high C! Also, even Luciano?? This aria has been sung in the original key a lot. Usually, the only tenors who transpose it down are either old or actually much heavier tenors..
Just listened Kraus at his age, no colour of voice at this age. It doesn't matter of high notes! Singing it's not only C. Maybe, Kraus too cracked his voice on dramatic repertoire... Maybe, if he didn't do it, he can be better in 72!!!
Anyone else notice him cough a phlegm ball up at 1:18 , spit it in his left hand and throw it ? He did that a lot . You often see him bring his right arm over the left side of his face and swipe it back across his mouth in a dramatic manner to wipe away phlegm. Normally people with swallow or cough without even thinking, but you can't do that when you're singing, so it just flys out.
@ulyg92 53 is not a problem for a high tenor like Pavarotti (who possessed a high F!) In fact I heard Pavarotti taking high C's well into his 60s. I suggest the reason for transposition of this had more to do with the placement of the aria, immediately above and below the passagio (E and G) and that Pavarotti for whatever reason - a cold, vocal strain etc - found it more comfortable to transpose it to a B. Tenors have been known to transpose up (!) a semitone to overcome similar difficulties!
I am glad....I have degrees in classical music and don't want to bore casual listeners. If it is aprpeciaterd and enhances your enjoyment then great! The tenor high C from the chest was still new in the middle Verdi period. By Otello high notes from the chest would have more common...but theatres were smaller and acoustically better for singers than they are now.
@NMEnrique You're mistaken! It depends very much on the type of voice - few heavy voices (Heroic/Helden tenors, baritones and basses) have properly unfolded before 40, lyric tenors tend to flourish early and darken quickly. Expect the best from a big singer's voice in the 50s - listen to the depth a thickness of tone Del Monaco achieves in his 50s and a great many (as you would expect) Wagnerian tenors. Singers who retire early do so for a variety of reasons.
Verdi generally wrote a tone lower than normal - he had the A lower, than common these days. Verdi specifically wrote to guard the singers voices - his girlfreind had her voice ruined by abuse.
When Verdi wrote trovatore C was B....pitch is a half step higher now. Also Verdi did not ask for the high C. The tenor threw it in....thus spake the music history nerd.
Singers ussually complete the operas that perform. So, it is right to add some notes that composers could not imagine., like b in La donna e mobilie or Nessun dorma, or the high c in Di quella pira en arias from William Tell.
I hate to write anything about Pavarotti because I'm accused of being a Pavarotti hater. Not true. But I heard Pavarotti sing this on stage during his peak years. He's better here than he was the night I heard him but still it should be clear - this is not his role, He is a Donizetti or Puccini singer not a natural Verdi tenor. I thought maybe I was just being hyper-critical so I listened to the same scene as sung by Aureleano Pertile. You do it. Every tenor living or dead seems to have a UA-cam video of himself singing this cabaletta. You don't have o go back to historic singers of the past. During Pavarotti's years the best Manrico's were probably the two Franco's - Bonisolli and Corelli and Jimmy McCraken. None of them sang Nemorino. All three had good high Cs.
i'm not a very big fan of pavarotti,but this is a superb. redition, he did his best,and and the high note was clear likea bell,iprefer a big and clear high b,than a small an strained,almost cracked high c, just enjoy!
It's always when one hears those rumors "I know people who ..." -- anonymous third party discussions, no proof. You grow up. If you accuse top opera directors of lying and top singers of cheating, you better have proof. Joseph Calleja said that in all the years he's worked in opera he's never seen it, Malena Ernmann and a number of well known singers said the same thing. For all the years that NYCO had amplification, the critics never failed to complain. Ditto about Dr Atomic/Nixon in China.
I am a purist...Give me a Bayreuth style theatre with a sunken hidden pit over mics any day... I have heard too many Wagner operas and heavier Verdi wherein they use mics...you hear the amplified footsteps of the chorus...sometimes ruining interludes. A conductor's job is in part to make sure you can hear the singer...that job is not for the sound guy, who will tend to just compress everything.
@ChrisStockslager It would be a semitone higher at High D flat - impossible for most tenors! Interesting to note though, that the first tenor to sing a High C in Di Quella Pira was Enrico Tamburlik in the 1850s, but that as international standard pitch had not then been settled on at 440 hz, he was in fact singing what we would recognise as a High B
Do you have any proof that Met amplified onstage voices, something they has always denied. I've been going to the Met for years, and I could certainly tell if I were to hear an amplified voice coming from speakers vs voice coming from the stage. Yes, they have a sound department - for recordings, HD broadcasts, Douglas Adams operas where the composer insists on amplification, but the rest are rumors with no proof.
Wow...how much mic enhancement is actually going on at the Met? I find that the bigger voiced singers, thouse who actually don't need mics to be heard over the orchestra, get very upset when smaller voices are equalized by sound engineers and come off as artificially loud.
Who cares if he changed the keys?! The Three Tenors changed the keys of their pieces because they personally at their older age could not sing as high anymore. Statistics is one thing, but their own voice is what they know, if they were uncomfortable singing a high C, then what does it matter?
for the record: how to sing this aria? check bonisolli.. pav is ok, but here he didnt ''felt'' manrico...really--- del mario, corelli, bergonzi..yep they ''feel'' di quella.. very tough aria..bonisolli light years ahead of all...
The best Di quella pira is Bonisolli and second Ermanno Mauro, who sang it many times at the MET with incredible high C. To everybody out there, keep in mind that when this opera was composed the pitch was close to 420. today in the US is 440 and in many places in Europe 444/446 and in Vienna 449, where Pavarotti sang it half step down and Bonisolli in the original key. There is a video from UNIVISION from the Staatsoper Wien (Vienna State Opera) where Domingo crak the hell out of those Bs
de hecho si , sin dificultad, pero el trovador son palabras mayores llega al B4 facilmente pero cantar 2 do luego de las pesadas arias es otra cosa, su registro llegaba facilmente a un do incluso mi bemol en una actuacion de la boheme el interpreto che gelida manina con un Eb en vez de un do, pero sabes, de vez en cuando hay que rebajar los riesgos de un crack, yo tengo un trovatore del 87 en vivo en el que canta 2 poderosos do y sin dificultades, pero como dije no era un telecast y el mismo Pavarotti lo dijo, que hay veces en las que no se puede quitar el miedo antes del agudo, pavarotti se ponia muy nervioso con los telecast
The opera is not about who sings higher , that's for people who has no idea of opera. This aria is often at a lower tonality because the sonority and the aesthetic of the music . Pavarotti is not the ideal voice for a Manrico. Tenors like Corelli have performed it on at this tonality . Corelli was a spinto with a high Db . Change your ideas about opera
Right even Giacomini can even make a great Manrico for a dramatic tenor with a high C. Heppner a heldentenor with a high C can also make a great Manrico while most heldentenors that do sing Manrico transpose Di Quella Pira down to B flat.
Typical ignorant. For whom scores then!? Let them sing what they want!? Not suitable? Of course! He is uncoloured tenor, while your depressed bari corelli cant sing normally, using only his histeric falsetto with forcing a notes. If it is a tenors role, singer has to show a high notes, not like a bari with size, forcing. You prefer to listen throat rippers like caruso, volpi, monaco, corelli?
"Lower key" Cause most "tenors" were a baries on that aria. Bari corelli forced a high notes, but on a C5, D5, B4 we can hear his histeric falsetto, its not a real voice, his voice also was stressed
I was less bothered by the downward transposition than by the size of the voice in relation to the chorus and the orchestra. It clearly shows that throughout the years we have been duped by Wilkinson, Minshull and Inc. into believing that the "King of high C" from Modena possess an vocal instrument that is monumental in width and breadth and can tackle anything in the Italian repertoire with aplomb. What a fraud! Power-wise, the voice remains that of a leggerio, nothing more and nothing less.
Even the Great Luciano....after having sing so many the role of Manrico in the Original Key...he transpossed in the B at his 53!!!??!!!Go in the 1975-6-7 when he sang in the original key and he was 40+!!!And if he had to sing only the cabaletta he could sing it in the key!!But when you have to sang a whole opera...you must protect your voice and keep power!!Luciano sang High Cs as late as in 2003! (at 68!!) and on stage there are many recording like the Met's 1997 Ballo in Maschera and Turandot, where Maestro did not avoid the High Cs and sang them in full voice!!!
OperaMyWorld thank you, the title pissed me off, its like people go out of their way to be arrogant and what not....
When you are doing a gig for months on end, even the most trained voice will feel the strain after singing for so long.
You tell 'em pal.
Whatever key Pavarotti sings in is the RIGHT key.
true
Cause he was a tenor.
Other on tapes were a baries without any tenors top
Oh yes - the Great Luciano Pavarotti, indeed!!!! He is wonderful!!!!
Thank you!
My favorites in the role are Bjorling and Corelli. I own the DVD of Pavarotti singing it at the Met, and I'm impressed by his performance of the role. He was very good.
Intergalattico certificata! Pavarotti incomparabile!
Ascolta Corelli o Del Monaco e ne riparliamo
Fuori repertorio, Pavarotti aveva una voce limitata evidentemente lei non ha mai sentito, le perfomance di del Monaco Bonisolli Tucker Nikolov Merli Filippeschi Marazoff Vichers Atlantov Corelli Barioni Giacomini e compagnia bella.
Pavarotti range limitato? E lo si compara a Bonisolli e Flippeschi? Ahahah vi ricordo corriam voliam di Pavarotti, addio speranza ed anima, possente amor mi chiama e o mio rimorso che i tenori elencati sotto non sono esattamente in grado.
ua-cam.com/video/pNYGv7zxhT4/v-deo.html
Dicevamo? Fuori range? Limitato?
Bravo Luciano donde quiera te encuentres
Best!! Beautiful voice
Una voce che forse non sentiremo piu,sei stato il più grande di tutti
I agree with you about the B natural in this performance. I was simply informing you of a live recording here on youtube. There is also one from1976 live here on youtube as well. Since you said "i've never seen him do it live" I though I'd inform you that he has infact done di quella pira live on several occasions.
He sang it numerous times in key. Especially before 1980. And he was Wonderful, check it on youtube. Nevertheless, most tenors sing the "pira" a half or even a tone down, and it sounds as glorious as in key. Pertile's in particular, transposed, was unbeliably. A high c is not everything, is it?
bravo bravo bravo...the best ever!
Grande entre los grandes.
Glad to bore you with various tidbits of musicology that neither add nor diminish anything from the greatness of Pavarotti or Verdi : - )
браво!
Yes he did
The Master!
i looooooooooooooooooooooooooovvveee uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
ay dios mio maravilloso
Just for accuracy on the subject of Pavarotti's vocal range, over his entire career , it was C♯3 - F5 . Therefore if he could hit an F5, he could quite easily make Verdi a very happy bunny.
Actually Bb2-F5
@@Un_Gordo_De_Derecha Well either way it's still remarkable . By the way you have a fantastic name.
@@telfordguy34uk oh, thank you so much! Yes, Pavarotti was amazing, the world we miss him for ever!
verdi was an ignorant, he didnt know on vocal nothing.
He was obsessed on sizes, on baries, they put baries on tenors roles, thats it.
bari tomango forced everything, so how the grandmaster let that disaster to sing his heavymetall Otello?
verdi didnt care on notes, even they were forced, size in verismo operatic trash were more valuable, but its just a timbres! A bunch of baries in tenors roles.
Real tenors were not exist in opera, mosquitos were nothing long time, they didnt evdn teach a tenors to how sing
@@Un_Gordo_De_Derecha When did he hit the low B-flat?
El tiene el carisma y tono de voz hermoso puede ser a,b,c,d,f,g y etc El siempre va ser el mejor eso se llama carisma
bravooooo
Non ci sono parole......
@bkmustang07 Oh he did it several times. In fact, search "di quella pira 1975" and you'll hear him do it with a slight hicup at the end. But he was a tad past his prime in 75.
Eximo el grande Pavarotti
Pavarotti can sing up to D5 (Possente amor mi Chiama, Rigoletto)
He did dare ! When he was younger
@ulyg92 Sure, but 50 years for an opera singer is the golden age.
In fact great singers mature from 40 to 50, from 50 to 60 it's their best time.
Very few tenors sing this aria in key, and among those who do, few do it beautifuly,
just schreaming it out:)
Bonisolli
Braavooooo braaavo braavooo
Grazie, y'all
Are you kidding?? He's very old in this! There are numerous recordings where he does sing the high C! Also, even Luciano?? This aria has been sung in the original key a lot. Usually, the only tenors who transpose it down are either old or actually much heavier tenors..
Agree! Add: dramatic repertoire is a death for lyric tenors...
of course you havent heard the great alfredo kraus, singing 9 high c's , performing "ah mes amis" at 72 years old!
pavarotti was a spinto, kraus a leggero
@@Un_Gordo_De_Derecha pavaroti lyric, but cracked voice and become nobody!!!
Just listened Kraus at his age, no colour of voice at this age. It doesn't matter of high notes! Singing it's not only C. Maybe, Kraus too cracked his voice on dramatic repertoire... Maybe, if he didn't do it, he can be better in 72!!!
@@Un_Gordo_De_Derecha pavarotti was a lyric-light
@@fabriziosarcinelli7566 Lyric, My Bad, he is a full Lyric not a light one
Oh Ok I'd have to look it up I know the recording I have it was studio but he held that B natural like it was the end of his life
Anyone else notice him cough a phlegm ball up at 1:18 , spit it in his left hand and throw it ? He did that a lot . You often see him bring his right arm over the left side of his face and swipe it back across his mouth in a dramatic manner to wipe away phlegm. Normally people with swallow or cough without even thinking, but you can't do that when you're singing, so it just flys out.
Aers:Tengo entendido que Verdi no escribio un C en esta opera.
Y aún tengo la duda existencial de qué fue lo que compuso exactamente.
@MarkJohnMaguire TO FINISH ON A HIGH D?!! God, that sounds painful....
@ulyg92 53 is not a problem for a high tenor like Pavarotti (who possessed a high F!) In fact I heard Pavarotti taking high C's well into his 60s. I suggest the reason for transposition of this had more to do with the placement of the aria, immediately above and below the passagio (E and G) and that Pavarotti for whatever reason - a cold, vocal strain etc - found it more comfortable to transpose it to a B. Tenors have been known to transpose up (!) a semitone to overcome similar difficulties!
I am glad....I have degrees in classical music and don't want to bore casual listeners. If it is aprpeciaterd and enhances your enjoyment then great!
The tenor high C from the chest was still new in the middle Verdi period.
By Otello high notes from the chest would have more common...but theatres were smaller and acoustically better for singers than they are now.
@NMEnrique You're mistaken! It depends very much on the type of voice - few heavy voices (Heroic/Helden tenors, baritones and basses) have properly unfolded before 40, lyric tenors tend to flourish early and darken quickly. Expect the best from a big singer's voice in the 50s - listen to the depth a thickness of tone Del Monaco achieves in his 50s and a great many (as you would expect) Wagnerian tenors. Singers who retire early do so for a variety of reasons.
0:49: High B
1:45: High B
Verdi generally wrote a tone lower than normal - he had the A lower, than common these days.
Verdi specifically wrote to guard the singers voices - his girlfreind had her voice ruined by abuse.
When Verdi wrote trovatore C was B....pitch is a half step higher now. Also Verdi did not ask for the high C. The tenor threw it in....thus spake the music history nerd.
Singers ussually complete the operas that perform. So, it is right to add some notes that composers could not imagine., like b in La donna e mobilie or Nessun dorma, or the high c in Di quella pira en arias from William Tell.
Can somebody tell me who was conducting this and what orchestra this was from the 1988 met opera?
James Levine. The Metropolitan Opera Orchestra.
I hate to write anything about Pavarotti because I'm accused of being a Pavarotti hater. Not true. But I heard Pavarotti sing this on stage during his peak years. He's better here than he was the night I heard him but still it should be clear - this is not his role, He is a Donizetti or Puccini singer not a natural Verdi tenor.
I thought maybe I was just being hyper-critical so I listened to the same scene as sung by Aureleano Pertile. You do it. Every tenor living or dead seems to have a UA-cam video of himself singing this cabaletta.
You don't have o go back to historic singers of the past. During Pavarotti's years the best Manrico's were probably the two Franco's - Bonisolli and Corelli and Jimmy McCraken. None of them sang Nemorino. All three had good high Cs.
i'm not a very big fan of pavarotti,but this is a superb. redition, he did his best,and and the high note was clear likea bell,iprefer a big and clear high b,than a small an strained,almost cracked high c, just enjoy!
What act was this
Whatever, I have yet to find someone wagon sings it like bonisolli...w the high C!!!
It's always when one hears those rumors "I know people who ..." -- anonymous third party discussions, no proof. You grow up. If you accuse top opera directors of lying and top singers of cheating, you better have proof. Joseph Calleja said that in all the years he's worked in opera he's never seen it, Malena Ernmann and a number of well known singers said the same thing. For all the years that NYCO had amplification, the critics never failed to complain. Ditto about Dr Atomic/Nixon in China.
I am a purist...Give me a Bayreuth style theatre with a sunken hidden pit over mics any day... I have heard too many Wagner operas and heavier Verdi wherein they use mics...you hear the amplified footsteps of the chorus...sometimes ruining interludes. A conductor's job is in part to make sure you can hear the singer...that job is not for the sound guy, who will tend to just compress everything.
@ChrisStockslager It would be a semitone higher at High D flat - impossible for most tenors! Interesting to note though, that the first tenor to sing a High C in Di Quella Pira was Enrico Tamburlik in the 1850s, but that as international standard pitch had not then been settled on at 440 hz, he was in fact singing what we would recognise as a High B
Do you have any proof that Met amplified onstage voices, something they has always denied. I've been going to the Met for years, and I could certainly tell if I were to hear an amplified voice coming from speakers vs voice coming from the stage. Yes, they have a sound department - for recordings, HD broadcasts, Douglas Adams operas where the composer insists on amplification, but the rest are rumors with no proof.
Wow...how much mic enhancement is actually going on at the Met?
I find that the bigger voiced singers, thouse who actually don't need mics to be heard over the orchestra, get very upset when smaller voices are equalized by sound engineers and come off as artificially loud.
Who cares if he changed the keys?! The Three Tenors changed the keys of their pieces because they personally at their older age could not sing as high anymore. Statistics is one thing, but their own voice is what they know, if they were uncomfortable singing a high C, then what does it matter?
Here you go ua-cam.com/video/pNYGv7zxhT4/v-deo.html
for the record: how to sing this aria? check bonisolli..
pav is ok, but here he didnt ''felt'' manrico...really---
del mario, corelli, bergonzi..yep they ''feel'' di quella..
very tough aria..bonisolli light years ahead of all...
Try Antonio Cortis.
"Even Pavarotti did not dare to sing it in the original key".?????? ... ,😂😂😂😂😂😂 Let me guess... 15..17 years old?
Corelli's the best Manrico.
Bjorling and Corelli.
The best Di quella pira is Bonisolli and second Ermanno Mauro, who sang it many times at the MET with incredible high C. To everybody out there, keep in mind that when this opera was composed the pitch was close to 420. today in the US is 440 and in many places in Europe 444/446 and in Vienna 449, where Pavarotti sang it half step down and Bonisolli in the original key. There is a video from UNIVISION from the Staatsoper Wien (Vienna State Opera) where Domingo crak the hell out of those Bs
Maestro Pavarotti did not have the voice for Manrico in any key. It was a shame when he took on these heavier roles. His Il Duca was truly incredible.
pavarotti B4, lo canta muy facilmente
ELIAS.A.B.C_YT 1:49? Facilmente???
Vítor Lacerda si, no tiene dificultades,la cara es por la expresion
ELIAS.A.B.C_YT Si tiene dificuldades se no tivesse dificuldade hacia con Do Peró esta muy viejo
ELIAS.A.B.C_YT Pavarotti facilidade 1982
de hecho si , sin dificultad, pero el trovador son palabras mayores llega al B4 facilmente pero cantar 2 do luego de las pesadas arias es otra cosa, su registro llegaba facilmente a un do incluso mi bemol en una actuacion de la boheme el interpreto che gelida manina con un Eb en vez de un do, pero sabes, de vez en cuando hay que rebajar los riesgos de un crack, yo tengo un trovatore del 87 en vivo en el que canta 2 poderosos do y sin dificultades, pero como dije no era un telecast y el mismo Pavarotti lo dijo, que hay veces en las que no se puede quitar el miedo antes del agudo, pavarotti se ponia muy nervioso con los telecast
I have a recording from his greatest aria where he does the original key i've never seen him do it live
The opera is not about who sings higher , that's for people who has no idea of opera. This aria is often at a lower tonality because the sonority and the aesthetic of the music . Pavarotti is not the ideal voice for a Manrico. Tenors like Corelli have performed it on at this tonality . Corelli was a spinto with a high Db . Change your ideas about opera
Right even Giacomini can even make a great Manrico for a dramatic tenor with a high C. Heppner a heldentenor with a high C can also make a great Manrico while most heldentenors that do sing Manrico transpose Di Quella Pira down to B flat.
Typical ignorant.
For whom scores then!?
Let them sing what they want!?
Not suitable? Of course! He is uncoloured tenor, while your depressed bari corelli cant sing normally, using only his histeric falsetto with forcing a notes.
If it is a tenors role, singer has to show a high notes, not like a bari with size, forcing.
You prefer to listen throat rippers like caruso, volpi, monaco, corelli?
"Lower key"
Cause most "tenors" were a baries on that aria.
Bari corelli forced a high notes, but on a C5, D5, B4 we can hear his histeric falsetto, its not a real voice, his voice also was stressed
I was less bothered by the downward transposition than by the size of the voice in relation to the chorus and the orchestra. It clearly shows that throughout the years we have been duped by Wilkinson, Minshull and Inc. into believing that the "King of high C" from Modena possess an vocal instrument that is monumental in width and breadth and can tackle anything in the Italian repertoire with aplomb. What a fraud! Power-wise, the voice remains that of a leggerio, nothing more and nothing less.