Fusion Power Explained! | Dr. Dennis Whyte | EP 424
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2024
- Dr. Jordan Peterson speaks with nuclear fusion expert Dr. Dennis Whyte. They walk through how fusion differs from fission, the harnessable energy found at the center of the sun, how to recreate it on earth, the fourth state of matter known as plasma, and facing the consequences of technology while acknowledging that we must push forward.
Dennis Whyte is the Hitachi America Professor of Engineering, and prior director of the Plasma Science and Fusion Center at MIT (He stepped down in November 2023). Whyte is considered a leader and innovator in fusion research, and currently leads the project SPARC - a compact, high-field, net fusion energy fusion device.
This episode was filmed on January 17th, 2024
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- Chapters -
(0:00) Tour info 2024
(0:41) Coming up
(1:03) Intro
(3:00) What fusion is and how it differs from fission
(7:06) The conditions under which fusion is possible
(15:34) Does fusion rely on chain reactions?
(19:00) It’s temperature, not energy
(21:27) What is actually happening to the atoms during fusion? A different phase of matter
(27:54) Calculating how much power results from fusion
(31:13) How to recreate the Sun’s temperatures on earth
(39:30) Magnetic fields and condensing hydrogen into plasma
(48:39) With physical isolation of the systems, where is the energy and how do we access it?
(58:30) Fission and fusion are not competing power sources, we need both
(1:06:56) Where are we really at with fusion? Timeline and likelihood
(1:19:18) What happens to the electrons?
(1:22:13) The end of abject poverty?
(1:30:03) Breakthroughs and optimism: “We have quite a world waiting for us if we’re sensible and fortunate”
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Jordan Peterson is not just a gem of the Canadian people he is a GEM of the human race
Yes a person of significance for the world which there should be a special status for. I just made up a peoples award to him of 'Plenipotentiary' status tasked with helping humanity in what ever ways he can or wants to. He should be able to go anywhere in the world with minimal restrictions and meet anyone, set up anything, use whoever he needs on what ever basis. I would include others like Douglas Murray , Elon Musk and others. No globalists control because they would be independent agents of change who will take us with them on their journeys.
@@clivemarriott7749 .. not sure about Elon Musk as yet but I agree with you totally otherwise
Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist/professor who did a thesis on alcoholism, yet wasn't even aware of the well known dangers of benzodiazepines...
@@fredblogs3303 No, that's fine but i think he has a lot going for him. 👍👍
Reference Jordan Peterson being utilized as an "expert" witness during a murder trial:
"Justice Mainella was apparently so unimpressed by Peterson’s 'proposed expert evidence,' he expressed 'concern about the decision to attempt to proffer Dr. Peterson as an expert witness on areas that he was clearly not qualified.' The judge concluded that offering Peterson as an expert witness 'unnecessarily complicated and delayed the trial' and expressed concern about the 'detrimental impact on the justice system of attempting to use dubious expert opinion.'"
Physicist with a gamer chair. I trust him implicitly.
first thing I noticed, lmao
😂😅😅
He's on fortnite every nite😅
The great scientific breakthroughs of the 21st century will be made by asses planted on the comfort of Secretlabs lol
😄
I wanted to let you know I just left my first public speaking gig. I never thought any of this would be possible, I'm an Asperger's, so it was difficult for me to communicate. It all started with you, Dr. Peterson and I will be forever grateful! Thank you for all that you do. Only up from here!
Awesome job buddy!! 🤘😎
Went from zero to having a basic understanding of fusion energy thanks to this excellent interview. Thank you.
gaming chair diff
Sadly the challenge of fusion is insurmountable before several other currently unthinkable challenges are fixed.
It's quite sad we've exhausted so much energy researching and reporting it.
The truth is we have a scientist community around fusion that's actually researching military applications with these devices.
Fusion occurs in a star at a stupidly slow rate, statistically. It's only impressive because of the stars' size. Cooling it down to make it usable on earth is literally science fiction, since cooling down the system makes the fusion occur even less frequently than in a star.
I knew many of the basics from watching a lot of space docs but now my basic understanding is slightly deeper.
@@captainLoknar Did you even listen to Dr. Dennis? 🙄The way the sun does it is through gravity which is a relatively weak force. That's why you need such large size to accomplish fusion with gravity. As mentioned in the podcast gravity is not the only force you can use. There is the electromagnetic force...
@@fahimp3 yeah that's what they're currently using. electromagnets. So how does that invalidate what I said?
Bro I'm not being condescending towards you. Just try to be more critical of these snake oil salesmen and stupid "science" reporters. I'm telling you fission is already pretty nice and they're using fusion to funnel more taxpayer funds into military contractors, vaguely posing as physics research. They need impossible tech to make this work. If they really wanted to achieve civilian applications, we need to hope for a miracle discovery and that's by observing the hell out of the universe and the Hadron collider. They would be launching 1000 space telescopes and building 6 bigger colliers. But no. Follow the money.
Peterson might seriously be the best interviewer right now. Remarkable 👏
He was. Since he got sick, he’s 1/4 speed of what he was. Still pretty good, but he keeps falling in his rabbit holes now. No chance he could do his Cathy Newman interview today, with the grace and humor and marshaled evidence he did then.
I didn't really expect him to interview people about fusion energy. Not exactly on my 1000 things that will happen this year list. Good discussion though.
He is a psychiatrist He Better Be.
I hope there are more podcasts of this nature. There are not nearly enough discussions about these types of subjects and they certainly cannot be found on TV shows or indeed anywhere that is easily accessible to the public.
I know technology is amazing. Don't you see why some want to censor the internet.
@@FranklinFleming-lm1yu Thank fully someone a long time ago thought the internet wouldn't be a big deal. If understood, they'd of shelved that as well!
@@turnipsucks6416 the. Guy who made t.v said it will never catch on its a fad
there is massive amounts of info on this subject dont need podcasts or tv shows
@@nowaout8014 no you don't need it lol
JBP is a very effective translator of the physics. Without this, I think the casual listener would be lost. Thank you for making this complex topic accessible!
Very good comment
The national grid is not big enough for no fossil fuels future.
The new technology will cost many $billions, maybe $TRILLIONS.
And then you have to build the bigger grid capacity, but you have to start building the grid bigger before the Fusion generator because it is so big and takes much longer to build.
The first national grid took 100years.
So allow decades to build the bigger grid capacity.
@@stephenbrickwood1602 I didn't raelize "bigness" was a statistic of the grid.
@@stephenbrickwood1602 What on Earth do _you_ mean! Is the question :D what does "big enough" mean and who are you replying to?
It’s nice.
Experts tend to assume knowledge and familiarity with jargon that the lay person can’t understand.
Someone like the mainstream media or Joe Rogan would devolve the conversation down to the level of a stoned teen.
Jordan actually provokes intelligent conversation and breaks apart any jargon without dumbing it down to the usual low level considered fit for the general public.
Thank you for this. You can really see the enthusiasm this man has for his field. Great interview
absolutely brilliant most favorite clip on fustion by far. could have listened to Jordan and Dennis for hours on this subject and I just wish Dennis and his students/ colleagues the very best of luck.
Excellent scientific understanding and questions Jordan. I have been watching Dennis for a while on this subject and he is fantastic! Thank you for making this important subject accessible to everyone.
You should look up Eric Dollard on this subject among others, he is a true genius.
Love the consistency of the podcasts lately.
True diversity. I want KRS ONE on the show
Holy Grail fusion is a technologically imaginary solution solving an imaginary problem.
@@rweaver6There are approaches to fusion that are very close to commercial viability. The problem (humanity's energy needs) is not imaginary.
@@usesbiggerwords8183Nuclear fission power has been cheap and abundant for 60 years. With thorium and breeders, it's good for something like geological time horizons. But that is what people with their hands in the public till hold against it. If it works, it needs to be superseded by something less available, but needing plenty of study.
Fusion power has been reported to be on the cusp of economic viability, at least as far back as this old man was in college. Not likely to change much, while there's plenty of money to spend on studying the potential, instead of building the actual. It's the poorest that suffer most by the suppression of actual cheap energy in favor of expensive not-quite-yet elite dreams.
Dr. Peterson you are a true Canadian Gem and Patriot. Thank you for everything you do. 🙏❤
Thank him by Writing your government to tell them what they are doing with his psychology license is wrong
@@MidwestFarmToysthey know it's wrong. Don't get yourself on a list.
Boo booo! Theres no room in heaven for cowards Mr Fleming good day coward @FranklinFleming-lm1yu
@FranklinFleming-lm1yu to be frank, keeping our mouths shut of fear of repercussions is how we got here .we should all be ashamed of ourselves for allowing this despicable predatory behavior to continue for as long as we have
@@joshboomhower8806 you gotta laugh at the stupid. They can't freeze again... The bank runs were to real and the bankers shat themselves. Not saying you stupid btw. Just laugh at the bad times. If we can't laugh and make fun of things... Then it's definitely gone too far.
JBP with his trait openness on full display. Truly, curious people ask the most interesting questions.
Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist/professor who did a thesis on alcoholism, yet wasn't even aware of the well known dangers of benzodiazepines...
Yeah yeah yeah, we know we know. If youre trying dissuade people, think of something else to say. Most people think its quite something that he overcame the addiction so youre definitely barking up the wrong tree. Youre not wrong, but your method is.@Rocksteady-hl2ks
@@Rocksteady-hl2ksOMG, so he literally does stupid things just like every other person that's walked, is walking or will be walking the earth since the dawn of time!!!!! 🙄
@@birddogcatfrog4977 Jordan Peterson's addiction has nothing to do with what I've stated....
(Stick to what you understand, seriously)
@@avasdaddy08 Can you even comprehend the role benzodiazepines play in alcoholism?
(Stop yammering on about things you obviously don't understand, seriously)
Hearing how he got his career going on the daily wire side was very motivational. I just finished my apprenticeship into sheetmetal union. And was thinking about pursuing a degree in engineering. Now I know it is something I must do to get that feeling the 2 of you have described. I feel the calling toward it. Just need to get up and do it. Thank you for all of the hard work that you do.😊
I would have been in utter dispare for the entirety of the past 3 years if Jordan had not choosen to share these conversations.
Thank you Dr! ❤
Wow such a uplifting experience
This is one of those videos that I will need to watch several times. First time to ready my brain and then repeat viewings to try and properly understand everything and the impacts. Ace.
Thank you Dr. Peterson. Please bring on Dr. James Tour when you visit Houston
Very interesting topic. It's fun to exercise some of this stuff from my days in engineering school.
I learned sooo much on this one. thank you Mr. Peterson and early congrats on 8mil. subs
Dr. Peterson is such an important voice for today.
A Canadian Hero
Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist/professor who did a thesis on alcoholism, yet wasn't even aware of the well known dangers of benzodiazepines...
Wow so is truly human!? 😮
@@lisaandchris8651 What?
I've been a nuclear proponent since I was a teenager in the 70's! I've never strayed form that opinion, and it's strengthened by todays world need for more power. The one thing I would add is that we the people should own, and control all nuclear, and power stations throughout the world, and especially in the US. Electricity is a basic foundation for life in the 21st century, and it shouldn't provide a profit for anyone. 👍✌😎🗽
What would you think if a company is using a nuclear plant for bitcoin and cloud computing.. and pretty big percentage.. ever hear of WULF stock
@@katadam2186 Does *_Terawulf_* produce power?
@@aliendroneservices6621 watch the deal an “ restructuring “ and some NRC insiders… real slick
If nuclear power is deployed in a non-profit fashion, then it will never progress and move forward. It means government will control it as a monopoly. Monopolies don’t invent and innovate because there is no competitive driver. When West Germany recombined with East Germany, they found that NONE of the East’s manufacturing was usable. It was antiquated. Cars were stuck in 1930’s technology. The free market drives invention and innovation through competition. It is motivated by profit. So, you need to ask yourself: do you want socialized energy, OR do you want cheap and safe nuclear power?
Interesting. Criticize socialism and YT removes your comment.
Edit: My prior, longer and politely critical comment, was removed.
Fantastic conversation, I really enjoyed listening to this level of expertise instead of reading a poorly written article that lacked important details and insights.
One of my more favorite podcasts from you Dr. Peterson. Thank you - I thoroughly enjoyed the knowledge of your guest and the questions you asked.
This was top tier! Ty both for this.
Yes Jordan! Keep raising the profile of the most significant topics of our species. And make it accessible and inviting, If this can happen in our life time it will change absolutely everything we have come to accept as the status quo. Imagine a world no longer focused on finding and fighting for energy. Unlimited power for everyone. A vision of Global Cooperation never seen before. BRING IT ON!!!
Fascinating talk! The political talks are interesting, but it would be great to have more scientists on the show. Thank you so much for your work!
Another excellent interview! Thanks to you both!
Excellent episode!!!! Thank you.
This is a good talk about Fusion.
The best one yet i think.
Gosh what a time to be alive
Amazing talk. Really loved it
I haven’t heard yet of any fusion experiments that have achieved more total energy out than they used to achieve and maintain fusion. There is a huge difference between Q total as opposed to just Q plasma.
You are correct
The company co-founded by Whyte can reasonably expect to in late 2026. Other reactor concepts with less depth of research may do so earlier or around the same time. Essentially nothing happened for a 25 year stretch but fusion is quite exponential depending on what advances are made
@@Canucklug one of the many reasons I know the climate crisis is not a crisis is that there has been zero concerted effort to bring fusion to fruition.
Didn't they say that a net output of energy has now been achieved by one project?
@@carolinereuter7924 It's net target gain, so 300 MJ powers the lasers and 2 MJ comes through to hit the target and the fusion power was 3.5 MJ
This sounds like not much but it's very exponential - they increased the laser energy by 8% for that shot and the fusion energy was 250% more than the previous record
Lasers are now much more efficient and can fire at powerplant relevant rates. It could work out although cost competitiveness is another level of challenge
Already knew a bit about fusion, now I know more and how complex it really is.👍
I've been following fusion developments for years. Been trumpeting the prospect.
I was wondering about the potential utility of AI in running a fusion-based system. I seem to remember that one of the nagging problems of developing a "good" tokamak reactor was that there had to be extremely rapid and precise changes made to the magnetic field constantly in order to keep it going. With AI, it seems like that sort of problem might be overcome. This discussion was one that was very fun to experience. Thank you for this content!
It’s been done
Incredibly enjoyable and informative interview! 👍👍👍
Neato! I'm interested in this new, clear energy!
Wow! So positive! Thank you!
Amazing. Thank you…
That was spectaculair 👍
Thank you sir
Fascinating
Awesome podcast
I learned a lot from this. Thanks to both of you gentlemen.
Fusion! Its a great idea that will always be just around the corner, meaning 70 years from now, 70 years from tomorrow and 70 years from 10 years from now.
I agree
This fission will always be right around the corner as long as government gives scientists billions to claim that it will. But "cold fusion" is a reality and making breakthroughs. Now called Low Energy Atomic Reaction LEAR.
A sketchboard would definetely help for physical conceptualizations :) Great discussion.
Excellent thanks.
I think Issac Arthur would be an interesting guest on this podcast.
Heck yeah!
Yep. That would be a very interesting conversation.
Heck yeah, he absolutely would be!
Thank you for what you do Dr Peterson. You changed my life! I’ll be seeing you at your show in Akron in March. I can’t wait!!
UA-cam is the single greatest educational tool in human history.
I hope Dr. Peterson can conduct more technical interviews like this. His line of questioning is very impressive.
Thank you
Dr. Peterson, please talk to Michael Clarage of Aureon Energy, a Canadian company. Hopefully they'd be receptive to openly discuss their findings. It would surprise you what they bumped into when they embarked to study the electric model of sun.
Those guys are full of shit.
Remember Franklin and the kite. That's how far we are from practical fusion. Took a few years after that for desktop computers.
230 years
@@zoomskilleri would doubt that seriously as it would take quite a large facility to create a fusion reaction, much less something that can be ( launched). excluding of course a thermonuclear device.
So What?
Thank you gentlemen for this actual and interesting conversation.
There is not much talk and information out there about fusion technology, maybe because it's a newer technology and not being used yet as much as nuclear.
It definitively sounds like an option compared to nuclear and todays renewable energy sources. Looking forward to the next steps.
Wishing you all the beat Dr. Whyte.
One of the top interviews so far easy.
I'm 64, worked a boiler water reactor most of my life. I highly doubt I will ever be able to visit a commercial fusion reactor.
That's what made the rambling useless. He talked about gravity as a force. physicist are telling us gravity is not a force... is it a force or not and if not then use whatever is the new correct words to express what we are calling gravity does. He made a distinction between temperature and energy.. isn't temperature an average of energy? He can't make up his mind what level he's trying to communicate. WORST is When... gesh make a guess or just shut up. what about "I have no idea"
@@josephlarrybradley508 Had similar reaction to this guy,
@@josephlarrybradley508apparently you misunderstand physics and still think very logical and linearly. That's dangerous when actually thinking.
exactly - fusion is a pipe dream being pushed by the anti human environmentalists (and their useful idiots). We need to invest in thorium reactors. As a Canadian it is pathetic that we have not invested in the most successful energy source in human history. We had the people and the resources to dominate energy production for 1,000 years.
Life extension is coming too
Wow!! This should have been grade 6 science class. Do I understand it all? No! Do I kinda get it?? Yes!! Way to go guys! ❤️🇨🇦
10 years away from fusion feels more like it’s 50 years further away each decade.
i’ve always heard “fusion is only 20 years away” every 20 years 😂
Please invite Dr Whyte to participate in person academy!
I would love to lean more and he's a very engaging and effective communicater.
I have learned so much about nuclear fusion. Thank you!
I loved this discussion so much. 🙂
I'm a self-proclaimed idiot in regards to *most* topics. But I've always loved astronomy and physics and have followed these topics unprofessionally for a couple of decades.
I've been an uneducated observer of the sun and it's electromagnetic connection to earth for the last several years. It's really incredible once you dig into it, and study, and hypothesize, and see all the correlations between the earth and it's biggest impactor... Our star.
Anyway, I was really nerding out during the first part of the talk and enjoyed this discussion.
Would love to see more discussions like this Mr. Peterson.
And, as always, thanks for sharing. ✌️
I may not agree with all of Mr. Peterson's philosophical convictions, but as someone who's been on the 'inside' of the laser driven inertial confinement fusion world for a couple decades now, I was HIGHLY impressed with the intellectual level of this conversation. I expected some talk about deuterium and superconductors and so forth, but I did not expect to hear discussion about the triple product or the Larmor radii of the confined charged particles in the plasma vessel. Notably, Peterson's questions are unusually incisive and canny for a non-expert in the field; his considerable intelligence is quite clear here and he should not be underestimated by interviewers or interviewees alike.
Good evening Mr JP
You sound stronger in this one, good on you.
Has he been ill?
I’m thankful to live in the present to listen to something I’ve always imagined now we get to understand this in my own life time this is insane
Excited for when all the engineering for fusion is figured out
Yeah but infinite energy.... I can see people controlling who gets access.
@@FranklinFleming-lm1yu Of course. Energy is dual use.
I would suggest getting Arthur Isaac on.
Isaac Arthur's UA-cam channel offers a captivating exploration of futuristic concepts and scientific advancements, resonating with viewers who appreciate thought-provoking discussions. Delving into topics like space exploration, megastructures, and advanced technology, Arthur's content stimulates intellectual curiosity and fosters a deeper understanding of humanity's potential. With a meticulous approach to research and a commitment to clarity, Isaac Arthur inspires viewers to contemplate the profound implications of scientific progress, aligning with the pursuit of truth and individual growth championed by Jordan Peterson.
It doesn't matter how "cheap" the energy will be to produce.
The consumer cost will always go up.
I'd like to see Jordan upload a video on his thoughts about the 11 different dimensions. I searched on youtube "Jordan Peterson dimensions" and was surprised to see no conversation or lecture on the topic. Maybe some day? 🙏
Besides the production of energy, nuclear reactors can produce a variety of isotopes that are useful for medicine. Another topic, the discovery by Pons and Fleischmann in the 80's concerning fusion in the lattice of palladium, must have "struck a nerve" , considering the way they were attacked. Considering how palladium became increasingly more expensive, it would be interesting to see who has been buying more than others.
It's not about the technology. Billions in science grants go to Tokamac research scientist's salaries every year. Why kill the Golden Goose by succeeding?
These methods will never produce inexpensive consumer energy.
Jordan has some very astute questions
Hey Doc. Fascinating. One question. Is the deuterium fed directly into the reactor or is it heated up into plasma first? Hopefully one of your listeners knows the answer
Fusion reactions in stars, the overall effect is a reduction in entropy as the system becomes more ordered through the formation of heavier nuclei.
Yet another phenomenal conversation in the Jordan Peterson channel, nothing new
Makes me think about Back To The Future movie where they use the "Mr Fusion" tech in the time travel car.
I would certainly be ecstatic to see you, Jordan, here in Alberta Canada sometime in relatively soonality. lol
Fission is ready now & it's awesome. Fusion is still years away from being a viable power plant.
Yes, Dr. Whyte literally said that....
I wonder if there is a symbolic link between "Solar Power," and the allegory of the cave with the sun being a symbol of divine illumination?
I've got a long drive home from London tomorrow, this is the entertainment sorted.
Small scale nucleonics has been an answer to every city’s energy needs since the late sixties when I was working on it
Then the whole program disappeared…..
Think submarines and air craft carriers…
Just the beginning of 60 year old research applications
A lesson on fusion in a video thats more then 1 hour long.
Yeah i will just blow through the entire lecture when i upgrade my mind.
What do you think of the Bicom machine that does bioresonance therapy?
I love megafusion and am happy to see its progress but I would love to see more research into table top fusion and LNRs these are a bit under funded probably thanks to Pons and Flieshman.
I've been following research on nuclear fusion for years. Recent successes and findings are really exciting! I'm already pro-fission reactors, but if we can master fusion reactors?! It will be beyond amazing for the human race!
Ah you haven't applied the ability of well meaning idiots to fuck anything good up, like fission itself.
The green anargy is a lot about giving power for some countrys over others...
I knew a little about fusion and I 100% think it's the way we will get most of our energy in the future (probably far future, but you never know).
For now, I think most countries not suffering from natural disasters should be focusing on building fission reactors, or we are doomed.
If they get thorium salt reactors to work on a large scale, even better.
I wrote essays on this in college equivalent, it's such an interesting topic.
Thank you so much, JBP and the rest of the team!
A few things. First, interesting while probably wrong: i think it may be possible for “cold fusion” to exist in the center of ice giants, since the exotic ice XIX and XX support metallic hydrogen and the latter should form an octohedral lattice of oxygen ions within which hydrogen ions can flow freely. The Ice XX lattice should so strongly constrain the movement of hydrogen ions (via constraints on the configuration distribution) that tectonic activity may possibly lead to small amounts of fusion. The constraints in motion of hydrogen would lower the required temperature & pressure for fusion to occur.
Also, there “breakthrough” fusion experiment was more of a breakthrough in laser technology, since it set records for number of lasers radiating the same space.
Thats gonna be a tough vibration to tune out, unless you stick that split ring plasma resonator antenna someplace steady. Like, perfectly quiet. 🤔
its interesting that both fusion and fission produce energy from the perspective of matter transformation
Nice public talk which explains the difference between fission and fusion.
You should have Dr. Robert Zubrin on. Much better at explaining nuclear energy and physics than the current guest. He released a new book "The Case for Nukes" last year. He was also an early mentor to Elon Musk
I think this guy thought he really needed to dumb things down. He actually said "the thing that makes the heat" rather than just saying "fuel."
I would love to know what he thinks about the SAFIRE project.
What is he doing about the 14 MeV neutrons?
Very thorough. Fusion will solve all are energy concerns. I hope I'm alive to see it.
13:00 primarly we used kinetic force to keep nucleons close to each other but, it caused some side effects, like demolished cities or earthquakes.
My man from MIT neglected to mention that the fusion blanket is radioactive like hell.
It's not all rainbows and unicorns.
Oh, and the actual practical containment times right now actually are only a few seconds... not exactly a power plant.
Love him
Was it filmed Jan 17 2023 or 2024? Description might have a typo
Hopefully we can soon built fusion reactors