Ancient Roman Coin Counterfeit Mold
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Thank you very much @lhevae_numis for providing us with his wonderful ancient mold for today's episode. Make sure to follow him on Instagram.
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Are the ancient counterfeit coins more valuable because of the rarity???
contemporary counterfeits are always interesting
They really are! Every piece is unique
Not exactly the same thing, but I recall hearing that US Double Eagles were “copied” in the Middle East back in the early 20th century. They were solid gold, so the intent was not to rip anyone off, but rather that they would be recognizable and accepted as the originals for circulation in the ME.
Not as many double eagles, that I am aware of, but many of the small denominations ($1, 2 1/2, and 3) were copied in solid gold. This was primarily due to the 1933 gold confiscation act which included Americans having to turn in $5, $10, and $20 gold pieces. The smaller denominations were excluded since they only made a small percentage of total coin gold and they were often given as gifts for birthdays and Christmas. The copy coins made in the mid east could be sold to tourists for a small premium and there was no issue with the US government when they were brought into the US by tourists or the manufacturers to be sold directly in the US. The coin "copy act" was not passed until 1964 which requires the word "copy" to be stamped on the coin if it is not an original US Mint product.
Something similar happened in Germany during WW1 and the early Weimar era - as the centralized monetary system broke down, municipalities issued emergency money to keep things going.
Indeed! The same happened during the Spanish civil war
In Iraq, coin change for US currency was problematic. Paper coins called POGs were used at exchange stores. They had different photos on them, but could only be used at the exchange. Similarly, company store credits were a currency in coal towns.
No limes denarii here but that's super fascinating. It's strange that they'd be cast though, the situation must've really been dire if they had to resort to mass-casting, and even then if they're all made with individual casts like this one the labor required to make a die vs a mold can't have been that much more difficult, and strong guys to strike coins would've been a dime a dozen. What do the sources say, if any speak to it at all, about the purpose of individual casting molds vs a more industrialized process that would've been sorely needed to pay for a Legion's regular wages in a time of strife?
Thanks as always for your videos, they're always a treat!
They were actually cast in piles. The process of making was relatively simple : you printed coins on the mix (clay and other things), make a dent that will allow the metal to flow it, waited for them to dry. Once it's done, you build the pile, pour the metal into it and break the moulds. It is actually quite well documented as various sites of such illegal mints have been found, sometime with thousands of moulds. The moulds are much rarer than the 'fake' coins though : they were often destroyed, and even if they weren't, they stayed on site, and did not circulate. So sole or small group finds are practically non-existent.
@@TheLaship Super interesting, thanks for the explanation!
Very nice explanation of the Limes. Thanks for the video. Looking forward to the next one!
Very cool artifact
No counterfeits yet. I'm not that advanced a collector. Maybe in a few years and a couple hundred more of your educational videos. Thanks for the work you do. I look forward to your new releases. I'm close to being done watching all of your older videos.
I have two different counterfeit coins, one denarius of Geta, unfortunately the silver has pealed from a lot of the coin, and one limes denarius of Septimius Severus.
Of course by the third century, when armed conflict was ongoing along the limes (necessitating mints closer to the frontier) and the antoninianus was grossly inflated, there was no need for "limes" antoniniani.
There are some suspected instances of limes issues for the first antoninianii, but these generally go as far as the reign of Gordian III. After his reign, we start seeing the opening of more mints closer to the frontier.
@@ClassicalNumismatics I thought about that, since antoniniani under Gordian III still had a respectable silver content, but from then on the coins quickly become crude bronze pieces (your example of Gallienus comes to mind).
I learned something new today. Thank you very much for that. I've always been a fan of military history.
I own a plated forgery of Augustus, it's actually one of my favorites because I can only imagine what kind of adventure that thing went through, it clearly circulated for a long while, the only place you can see base metal is in the chest of Augustus
It would be incredible to have that in the collection. Very cool.
Wow, very insightful, thank you again Leo.
This coinage reminds me of 'script money' used in later times. Interesting video!
Thanks for the video! Here in Ukraine limes denarii are a very common find. Probably more common than the normal denarii. Probably brought home by scythian auxilaries
Thats fascinating
Nice video Leo. I've seen like most of you while looking online. Haven't grabbed any yet though. Gotta start looking...
I have a couple ancient counterfeits. I find it fascinating and a part of feduciary history.
These coins and the historical context of their creation is indeed a very interesting way of looking at fiduciary coinage and how it developed.
Back then, they looked at fiduciary money as a "necessary evil", sadly we've grown accustomed to fiduciary money.
That is so cool!
Interesting video.
Thanks for the information.
Yeah, reminds me of counterfeit US dollars which sometimes circulated in former soviet republics as a real deal despite everyone being aware that they are fake. It's just that a) they were made with relatively high standards of quality (with real printing plate and press) so they themselves were not easily counterfeited, and b) they were accepted by all members of the transaction (both the local warlord who issued them and the farmers and militia who accepted them), so it was considered fair deal.
Enjoyed!!
I have a couple of ancient fakes in my collection, subaeratus I think they're called.
To think that, whoever did this, could've been executed is a wild thought.
One question:
One of my coins, a subaeratus of a Vespasianus denarius was pierced with a nail, what could that mean?
It's still not uncommon for coins to be holed for jewelry but coin collectors from before nowadays would also put holes in them to hang on a pegboard
Very interesting,Thank you for another great video.
Kind of similar to the HAWAII bills during WWII.
Very useful, thanks as always Leo👍
Great video
Tyty great content .
I found a counterfeit denarius of Mark Antony
Extremely interesting. Wouldn't it be easier to produce some kind of token that would be easily recognizable as such and be replaced in due time? Or to make a sign in the ''official fake'' mold that would imprint on the coin, making it stand out from ACTUAL counterfeits that were not to be exchanged?
I think it goes against the inertia of human perception. You can nudge men a little to accept "look-alike" money, but try to push something like token-money and people are going to revolt against it.
Very cool- although that's not a mould for actually making coins, is it? It has one face of the coin on each side, and nowhere to pour in the metal. Could it maybe be a mould for making wax models for lost wax casting? I'd have expected a decent amount of pressure would be necessary to get the liquid bronze into all the small details, so a sizable pouring gate would be required. Or would the idea be that many of these would be made and stacked in a long row so each provided the one side of the previous and subsequent mould in the stack? I'd also think they'd probably only be used once, so these moulds must be pretty rare...
These molds ARE quite rare, and they were broken up to release the coin. For some reason this one wasnt used.
i have one of Constantine with the Pax Christi emblem on one side. With the text in reverse. I believe that one is a real fake :)
🍯🐝🌻
are there some examples of fake ones made BC, because i think i found fake victoriatus, the copper came to the surface of silver ?
Certainly! There are records of plated victoriatii, greek coins, even plated electrum pieces from Lydia, some of the oldest coins ever.
Would they have faked gold coins? Like lead plated with real gold?
Silver probably would've been far more accessible and not worth nearly as much time and energy to try and pursue the counterfeiter. On the other hand gold isn't something most people would've been able to get their hands on so it would imply either high-level counterfeiting by elites or surreptitious theft of gold, both of which are very big problems for a variety of reasons.
yes
they mostly plated bronze with gold/silver, but there are known examples of lead or even iron being plated with gold/silver
Mold cast coins are easily distinguished from originals which are actually hammered.
The denarius of Caracalla says "Antoninvs Pivs", a different, earlier Emperor.
Caracalla´s regnal name was "Marcus Aurelius ANTONINUS" 🖐
Look up Diogenes and how he got started.