IIRC, Bart Erhman also points out that early Christians didn't like Rev because of how materialistic it is...While the Jesus of the gospels doesn't like or care about wealth and riches, Rev shows Heaven to be all gold and gemstones everywhere! I might add that John, being an early Christian who was victimized by Rome, clearly sees Rome as The Enemy, but by the time the Bible is being put together, Romans ARE Christians, and so, that "anti-Roman" aspect might be off-putting, as well. Apparently, it was Rev identifying Jesus as "The Alpha and The Omega" that was the deciding factor, as that could be used to support the Trinity...Which is also odd, because when you read the final part, it kinda confuses Jesus' identity: He's the one showing all this to John, except maybe that's an angel? But he clearly tells John NOT to worship him, but ONLY to worship God, which would seem to defeat the entire notion of the Trinity...
But then The Doctor uses The Hand to destroy Skaro, and that, along with his actions during the early development of The Daleks, helps to start the Time War and The Book of Revelation is rendered utterly meaningless.
@@Dalekzilla Ah, but that's just what everyone *thought*, until The War of the Daleks retconned the destruction of Skaro during the Council of BBC Books, which is why the planet is still around in the New Revival, something something, Profit...although Revelation is still meaningless. *Remembrance*, OTOH, is awesome!😉
@@HandofOmega I just want them to establish that the very first Doctor was the alternate universe Peter Cushing Doctor Who, and all the Time Lords based their "Timeless Children" DNA on him. LOL. And then the Peter Cushing Doctor turns out to be Ruby's father.......and Davros is Rogue's Great Uncle! And you know what? With RTD in charge, it just might happen!
Maybe we're really in the End Times because it's easy to get cultured pearls and man-made rubies, sapphires, emeralds and diamonds for vastly less than before. Mikimoto transformed the pearl industry. It's possible to grow food for everyone now. So the city depicted in Revelation would be much cheaper to build and the invention of the blue LED (made possible by the stubbornness of one man) would make it much cheaper to light and produce much less waste heat.
Cheers for Levar Burton for standing up to the mind-controlling elements. I've read many of these banned books and they all have something of value, something to teach us.
So i've heard. It never was for me I've liked it since junior high school. So much of hebrew scripture has left out the crazy bits that other religions have. I really enjoy the fantastic elements of revelation. And it is such an extreme book of comfort.
Dreams have a coherence all their own. The idea that dreams are meaningless is a dangerous one psychologically. It risks completely ignoring powerful insights into our own psyche that we just don't have access to in waking hours. Most mental and physiological processes are subconscious, and anything that allows us to peak under the hood as dreams do is an invaluable resource.
Who is TJ? I'm not here to defend Revelation, but that attitude sounds like someone unfamiliar with the Jewish Apocalyptic genre. Read 1 Enoch, 4 Ezra, the Apocalypse of Abraham, and others, and Revelation will suddenly make much more sense.
Sounds like a book of dreams and drug induced visions. Drug induced meditation was widely used to connect with the gods. What makes Jewish God the only one?
@@Theprofessorator Well the early Church claimed it was from the same John. It was canonized because it was from John, other first century sources like “The Apocalypse of Peter” were thrown because there was no actual proof or link to Peter, other first century texts like the Epistles of Ignatious, or the Didache despite being influential and highly respected were thrown out because they weren’t from the apostles, this goes to show there was a verification process and chain of authorship that was held to determine which texts made it into the canon.
@@BuffAle We have at least 3 books by Paul, which weren't written by Paul, two books of Peter that were most probably written by different authors, so perhaps the criteria weren't quite what we have been led to believe
@@bristolrovers27 those aren’t a scholarly consensus, Second Peter can easily be written by Peter and but copied by another interpreter, this would explain the difference in grammar and style. And the other epistles of Paul can also easily be written by Paul again this is a hot topic of debate but it often comes down to the difference in literary style and grammar. Yet many scholars still hold on to the traditional view. So your position is just as valid as mine, but mine is accepted by the contemporary and historical records of that time.
But he doesn't combat it so much as he makes some assertions in line with a few other modern scholars, all of which has been addressed more thoroughly by people such as Stephen de Young or a lady who is arguably the foremost living authority on this particular topic, Eugenia Constantinou. I like a lot of Dan's videos, but it seems on this subject he's not familiar with either of those individuals or, more importantly, how The Revelation (no "s") of St. John has always been handled in the Eastern Church.
@Gregorydrobny he's doing it in short format so I get why it can come off as assertive but if you watch any of his livestreams or other conversations he's definitely not just asserting everything. He has references for most of his claims and its miles ahead of anything Apologists are putting forward. Dan at least references people in relevant fields and is a relevant expert himself. It's not like it's some cold case detective that thinks he's solved a 2,000 year old crime that people have been pouring themselves into for their entire lives. I don't follow Dan blindly, but on Revelation. Even much of the early church is on Dan's side. So it's not just a "few other scholars."
I get so tired of the talk about “the last days”! As a late Boomer I remember hearing that the last days were upon us, that we were the chosen generation, that we’d suffer from the wickedness of the world etc, etc, etc. I now think that the whole Revelation talk was to scare us into behaving as the church wanted us to. As a ten year old I had nightmares about Armageddon and about having to walk back to Missouri with possibly a handcart to pull (Mormon lore). Not anymore. It’s unethical to use scripture to scare church members into behaving and doing what the leaders want them to be and do. It’s a form of religious abuse, and it’s time to call it out for what it is-abuse and mind control plain and simple.
Now this is where the late-Boomer Catholic church scored over Protestant sects. In those days, Catholics were actively discouraged from reading the Bible -- I'm not joking -- so Revelation, or "Apocalypse" as it was then, barely registered with us.
I grew up with nearly every discussion of the future having 'if the Lord tarries that long' added to it. It's really discouraging being a teenager and constantly having people tell you that the world is probably going to end before you get to experience any part of adulthood. And yet at the same time you're told you need to get a good education, get a good job, treat any romantic relationships as if they are leading to lifelong marriage, etc. So much cognitive dissonance and confusion.
@@Recluse336 Having been raised Catholic, I've never entirely understood that mindset. The focus on the end times in the New Testament suggests that it was something people in those religious traditions were expecting near-term,. The near-obsession with it now -- and with such concepts as the Rapture, tenuously connected to Scripture at best -- among some evangelical sects is disconcerting, to say the least.
I think it’s a way to get off the planet. A way to shirk responsibility. I remember listening to a ‘last days’ preacher who was almost frothing at the mouth when he said ‘you think god cares about trees? Read Revelation and see what he does to them!’ That’s the attitude. Ruin the earth because we have some other better place to go to.
Surely a large part of the appeal of Revelation was that it brought the cosmic drama that began with Genesis to a kind of theatrical grand finale. For that reason alone its problematic elements were glossed over, first by many individual theologians and then by the consensus of the Church.
2 місяці тому+4
yep. it's an ending and then some. Makes sense from a literary perspective.
Luther also did not hold Revelation in high regard (along with a few other books) because he did not see the Christ of Revelation as similar to the Christ of the Gospels. I think one's view of whether Revelation is important come down to whether one is inclined towards a vengeful God or a merciful and forgiving God. I grew up with it being impressed upon me that Revelation was very important and pertinent to our times, but now I see it as an interesting oddity at best and a distracting waste of time at worst. It certainly doesn't seem to contain much if any of the original theology and philosophy of Jesus as a preacher, as found in the Gospels. There is a definite shift away from salvation and redemption towards vengeance and punishment.
Obviously by "canon" I imply Christianity here, and "Enoch" is a bunch of writings, and by "history" I could have said "European history" - but then, Europe invaded a fair amount of places and brought this with them, so I'm sticking with "history", because many a political and military decision was based on ideas of The End Times etc. Really I just wanted to avoid having my comment minimized and having a "Read More" like it definitely did with this comment.
It is said in the Orthodox Chruch that John told his vision, so that is one way we see why the Greek is different. I also do believe Ireneaus of Lyons (2nd century contemporary with Justin Martyr) also stated that the book of Revelation as authoritative. Unsure if he believed it was written by John, but he saw it as authoritative along with the letters of Paul. Ireneaus was also trained by Polycarp of Smyrna, who was also trained by John himsel by hlchurhc history. Edit:Another reason why Revelation was contested, was since it is difficult to understand and that many people for the first 3 centuries kept claiming it was about their times, which what we see the evangelicals sadly do. Ther orthodox believe it to be about the past, present and future, we don't even read it in our services, since we know it can be twisted by sensationalists.
I think it’s also important to note that all the canonical books of the New Tetsament date to the first century, meaning these books are the earliest sources for Christian theology, values, and beliefs, regardless of the early church’s controversial views on the book, it was very influential and widely recognized as a valuable texts, this makes its inclusion into the bible rather logical. Other sources from the first century which claimed to be from the apostles, specifically “The Apocalypse of Peter” was thrown out due to a lack of proof for authorship despite the texts not inheritly contridicting Christian teachings, this shows there was at least some type of verification of the books that the church took into account. Other first century texts like “Gospel of Thomas” were simply thrown out from the canon for heresy, however a lot of first century Orthodox sources were also thrown out, “Letters of Clement” “Epistles of Ignatious” and “the Didache” simply for not being written by an apostle and more of a “second source”. This consistently shows that a criterion for canon is that it was supposedly written by the apostles and widely accepted an authentic text. So I agree Revelation was likely written by John as the early church says and the canonization confirms
I joined the Orthodox Church for about 8-9 years as a last attempt at remaining Christian before eventually leaving entirely and my experience was it still holds a rather tenuous position within the Orthodox canon. While everyone largely agrees it should be there, as you said, it is not read in any services and from my experience there is still some hesitation as to what extent people should read it as part of personal study. I remember hearing of quite a few leaders who were hesitant about people trying to study Revelations, especially any in depth study and a few discouraged reading it all, without their study being at least somewhat overseen by someone who had some education in the Orthodox interpretation of Revelations because it was viewed as being far too easily misunderstood and interpreted wrongly. But that was just my experience, perhaps others have had different experiences.
@@Recluse336 I would say that is partly due to the nature of revelation being so confusing, it genuinely is a very confusing text, if one were to try and study it without proper spiritual understanding or guidance it could easily lead to heresy or different conclusions. It is accepted but not really encouraged as any interpretation is equally as valid or unvalid. But the result of the text is always the same, the message that Christ is coming soon. Apart from that I am sorry to hear you left the church, I pray the Jesus guides you back, I find solace in learning more about the early church and the historical evidence for Christ death and ressurection, despite all objections it remains one of the most influential stories and events in all human history, quite literally God coming into the human world.
@BuffAle thank you, have had a better explanation than I did. And about clement and other 1st century letters, they are still heavily to be encouraged to be read by Orthodox members to better understand the faith. There is a good collection on them called "the apostolic fathers." Also, if people think Revelation is a sad and terrifying read, then the apocalypse of Peter makes it look like chowder.
In 1988 the Jehovah's Witnesses published the most hilarious commentary on Revelation ever. I sold my copy on ebay and got $30 for it. It's called Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand and is still available on their website. Right away in chapter two it asserts the univocality of the Bible. Later on it interprets the seven trumpet blasts as punished declarations by the Watchtower Society and says the fall of Babylon the Great happened in 1919 when 7 members of the board of directors were released from an Atlanta prison. Too bad all of the horrid illustrations of Armageddon and whatnot aren't available but there are a lot of websites displaying them and how weird they are, including someb very strange what some people might term "subliminal messages." Most any ordinary Christian would look at it as a book from the devil.
Thinking of Revelations, I hope y'all are ready for the Rapture on October 9, 2024. I mean, which rapture number is this? About 287 or so? Or is it now in the thousands? Can I bring some popcorn as I watch people rise up into the 'heavens'?
I think it’s also important to note that all the canonical books of the New Tetsament date to the first century, meaning these books are the earliest sources for Christian theology, values, and beliefs, regardless of the early church’s controversial views on the book, it was very influential and widely recognized as a valuable texts, this makes its inclusion into the bible rather logical. Other sources from the first century which claimed to be from the apostles, specifically “The Apocalypse of Peter” was thrown out due to a lack of proof for authorship despite the texts not inheritly contridicting Christian teachings, this shows there was at least some type of verification of the books that the church took into account. Other first century texts like “Gospel of Thomas” were simply thrown out from the canon for heresy, however a lot of first century Orthodox sources were also thrown out, “Letters of Clement” “Epistles of Ignatious” and “the Didache” simply for not being written by an apostle and more of a “second source”. This consistently shows that a criterion for canon is that it was supposedly written by the apostles and widely accepted an authentic text.
No, not all of the letters in the NT date to the first century. This is simply not true. It wasn’t until the 19th century that the Syriac Orthodox Church accepted 1st and 2nd Peter as canon and did so because “that’s how bibles are printed now.” They knew Peter did not write them and they were not written till the second century.
@@chuckshingledecker2216 Wrong, They literally all date to the first century lol. And just because the syriac church didn’t accept it doesn’t matter, because it was canon in the orthodox church and Catholic church by the 3rd century not the 19th lmaooo. I think you need to check your sources.
I know there's a lot of atheist and a satanists that give you a hard time. I really appreciate you taking the time too answer questions if you will have. Just keep searching overall on the same journey to find the truth and I don't think any of us are close yet. Reading the New Testament in Greek has been a game changer for me. Rules out all the questions and gets down to the sources.
Also, it livens up the Bible. Even for the most devout, parts of the Bible can be a snooze fest. Throw in dragons and horsemen and battles… plus a (happy?) ending where the bad guys get thrown in a lake of fire… really spices things up.
I'm glad it's there. I've enjoyed it since I was a little kid. A lot of fun fantastical elements. The chaos. The chaos upon chaos. But the love of god triumphs over all evil and all chaos. And in the end all tears are wiped away. It is a great book of comfort. I probably would have read it eventually anyway. But since it was in the cannon I grew up with it as well. I grew up conservative and wouldn't have approved of reading non canonical heretical scriptures.
@@epicofgilgamesh9964 Why would you believe something like that? That's horrible There is no comfort there at all You must be reading the wrong book. All applications are up to the end user. So if the book means such a horrible thing to you, that's on you for deciding on a horrible application.
Athanasius accused anyone who didn't agree with him of being an Arian or a heretic. The accusations he made towards the gnostics are clearly distortions if you compare them to Mandaean beliefs. Not surprised to learn of his promotion of Revelation. Thanks Dan.😊
I'm considering the proposal that I first heard from Dr. Tabor, that the Revelation to John of Patmos was originally a non-Christian Jewish text. It would have been Christianized later (as it was translated/transformed into Greek.)
i like the book of revelation ... it separates the goats from the sheep and show who is the one who will judge you for your action ... in the gospel Jesus show how the people should being walking and in the book of revaluation it show the judgment on how you choice to live ... just like the book of Deuteronomy with blessing or cursing ... god does not condemn ... he judge ... like in a court system ... if you do evil then you will be judge for your action and if you do good then you will be judge for your action ... Deut 5:10 (KJV) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
In Answer to Job, Carl Jung argued that the portrayal of God in the Old Testament often includes both loving and wrathful aspects, reflecting a complex and contradictory nature. The apocalyptic imagery of Revelation, with its themes of judgment and wrath, suggests to Jung that the darker, less acknowledged side of the divine is coming to the forefront just as the lighter more loving aspects did with the portrayal of Jesus in the first century. This aspect of God is in need of reconciliation and integration, just as individuals must come to terms with their own shadows.
Dan...you omit that Athansius was referred to as the Father of Orthodoxy or that the groups he argued against were seen to be in error in their beliefs by the Church. In other words far from being on a power trip - he was representing the views of the apostles passed down through the ages.
Just a question… If Athanasius of Alexandria stamped his approval of Revelation in the late 4th century then what bible did Constantine commission after the council of Nicaea ? It’s been suggested that Codex Sinaiticus may have been one of those 50 bibles…and that codex contains Revelation …
I wonder if another reason it was canonized was because of its weird language and incomprehensible imagery. Its very strangeness gives it a mystical, dream-like quality, like the Jewish Kabbalah or the Daoist I Ching, which would appeal to people looking to delve into a more esoteric form of religiosity.
Early on yes. By the end of life he became a vengeful shell of his younger self I decided to use it to say the Papacy was the beast etc. PS: I am a Lutheran pastor.
What are your thoughts on Frank E. Peretti's books, which seem to be like how Christians interpret Revelation- used to interpret and understand spiritual warfare, but really seem to be misunderstandings of certain passages of the bible?
I like Dr James Tabor’s theory that it originally was a Jewish writer. He points to many Christian interpolations within the text showing they were totally unnecessary and a simpler reading was revealed when removed. I would add the 7 letters to the churches also are interpolations with horrific theology towards women included. The religion of the beast sounds a lot like Christianity worshiping a man who declares himself to be god and standing in the temple, who survives a mortal wound. From a Jewish perspective it makes some sense. The image of the messiah coming to destroy Israel’s enemies is entrenched in Judaism. She it’s on one level a polemic against Christianity.
Jeremy Duncan's book Upside Down Apocalypse explores how if you think Jesus of Revelation differs from Jesus of the gospels, then you've misunderstood Revelation. For example, in an early scene, you hear about a lion like David. But when you turn to look, that's not what you see. You see a murdered lamb. Yes, Jesus conquers, but by winning hearts through sacrifice, not by military power. Similarly, revenge fantasies are just that, fantasies that are shown not to work. Jesus conquers with the sword from his mouth, winning hearts with the gospel. That's why I'm glad Revelation made it into the canon. It's remarkable work and pertinent in the present (possibly every) era.
@@TheDanEdwards Right? Christians had no problem making all kinds of texts right up until one group of them started getting authoritarian and violent. Now people think that a text is " pertinent in the present (possibly every) era" simply for it being canon. You can shoehorn in any meaning you want in an allegory. You can make anything pertinent if you force it. Earlier christians would've just written better, more pertinent texts. Canon was the worst thing to happen to christianity. It drove them all crazy trying to constantly renegotiate the meaning of texts that weren't written for them in order to force them to be relevant.
2 місяці тому
@@TheDanEdwards christianity couldn't exist without a canon. at a minimum the accepted gospels have to be combined. Otherwise you would have very different stand alone accounts of the Jesus story.
Yes, because according to Revelation, unbelievers are sent to hell for the "crime" of not believing a story that has no external corroboration. What a "loving" God and Jesus it portrays. Wonderful... 🙄
Let me ask , if at all the orignal languages where Hebrew , Aramiac , e.t.c so we who dont speak those languages, how did we get concerned. just because some guys translated.
@solidstorm6129 It is all in harmony! You just don't hear it ! Different authors at different times , all telling the story as best as humanly possible ! Duh
It was one of the more interesting reads of all of the books for me. But I was always puzzled by its inclusion because I was under the impression that the Councils wanted harmonization among the books. Wasn’t that the reason why a lot of the apocrypha didn’t make it? The book is sus to me. And the power interpretation seems plausible.
2 місяці тому
the canon needs an ending. revelation is an ending. it's also roughly consistent with the gospels.
First off, the book of Revelation corresponds with the chiasmic structure used in Jewish literature. Secondly, the beast imagery used in Revelation is the same as Daniel seven. Third, a whore, which is the same symbolism used throughout the Old Testament for apostate Israel is consistent with Revelation. Fourth, it is consistent with the teaching of the Trinity Fifth, the structure of Hebrew parallelism found in Daniel is used in Revelation Sixth, the seven churches in revelation accurately describe the different stages in the history of the church over the course of the last two thousand years. When reading and interpreting Daniel and Revelation it must be approached in an historical way. If you take a futuristic or prederate approach it will not make sense.
I think you give the author of revelation a bad wrap, obviously there's some big issues but imo he was likely Jewish and after ce70 any violent wishes toward rome are fully valid. You can't blame an oppressed person for how they respond to that oppression. That's not to justify athanasius' imperialist appropriation of it or the harm it's caused since, or claim the imagery in it isn't grotesque at times
"and after ce70 any violent wishes toward rome are fully valid" Are they though? Tiny little Israelite kingdom hypes itself up into having a hilariously high opinion of themselves. Pisses off one of the largest power structures the world has ever seen, this in spite of being given special treatment for their beliefs. And then they subsequently get their cheeks clapped after years of warning from earlier agitations. Like, not to say that the vassalization was fine. But it was how they did things then. If Israel had any power at all, they'd have been the ones doing the vassalizing. They were just mad that they are weak. They got so mad that they became delusional and picked a fight with someone they had no hope of ever winning against. You might be able to claim some validity if there was any sort of unified effort here but there really wasn't. It was largely one faction within Israelite society that decided they were going to endanger everybody else by harassing and killing a bunch of non-Israelites and later several thousand Roman soldiers. It was a bad idea guided by myopic thinking and seemingly lead by religious intolerance and a delusional fervor which landed everybody in hot water. In other words, they poked a bear and then cried about getting their arm chewed off.
The Book of Revelation had nothing to do with Christ's teachings whatsoever, and of course Christ was not involved in it in any way. It came entirely from a Human man's "vision", and has down through the centuries continued to be incorrectly interpreted as predicting events thousands of years in the future, rather than being about the Roman Empire. Like Paul's opinions that he wrote in letters to the churches, this was in no way "God's Word" and should never have been declared as such by the early Church.
None of it is "God's word" and it is derivative of *older* mythologies. --------------------------------------------------------- *The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.*** *Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.*** ***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service. *"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"* *"Sumerian Is the World's Oldest Written Language | ProLingo"* *"Sumerian Civilization: Inventing the Future - World History Encyclopedia"* ("The Sumerians were the people of southern Mesopotamia whose civilization flourished between c. 4100-1750 BCE." "Ancient Israelites and their origins date back to 1800-1200 BCE.") *"The Myth of Adapa - World History Encyclopedia"* Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:50 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes. From a Biblical scholar: "Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."* *"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"* ------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition, look up the below articles. *"Genesis 1:1-2 --- not a creation ex nihilo"* - Dr Steven DiMattei *"Yahweh was just an ancient Canaanite god. We have been deceived! - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* *"Hammurabi - World History Encyclopedia"* (Hammurabi (r. 1792-1750 BCE) was the sixth king of the Amorite First Dynasty of Babylon best known for his famous law code which served as the model for others, *including the Mosaic Law of the Bible.)* *"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"* *"The Greatest Trick Religion Ever Pulled: Convincing Us That Satan Exists | Atheomedy"* *"Zoroastrianism And Persian Mythology: The Foundation Of Belief"* (Scroll to the last section: Zoroastrianism is the Foundation of Western Belief) *"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"* *"January | 2014 | Atheomedy"* - Where the Hell Did the Idea of Hell Come From? *"Retired bishop explains the reason why the Church invented "Hell" - Ideapod"* Watch *"The Origins of Salvation, Judgement and Hell"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica (Sensitive theists should only watch from 7:00 to 17:30 minutes as evangelical Christians are lambasted. He's a former theist and has been studying the scholarship and comparative religions for over 15 years) *"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"* *"Forget about Noah's Ark; There Was No Worldwide Flood | Bible Interp"* *"The Search for Noah’s Flood - Biblical Archaeology Society"* *"Eridu Genesis - World History Encyclopedia"* *"The Atrahasis Epic: The Great Flood & the Meaning of Suffering - World History Encyclopedia"* Watch *"How Aron Ra Debunks Noah's Flood"* (8 part series debunking Noah's flood using multiple branches of science) *"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"* *"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"* *"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"* *"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"* *"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"* *"Studying the Bible"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei (This particular article from a critical Biblical scholar highlights how the authors of the Hebrew Bible used their *fictional* god as a mouthpiece for their own views and ideologies) *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei
@@epicofgilgamesh9964 I agree. The Bible is a book written by rather primitive Human men, who put their opinions, prejudices, and cultural traditions into their writings. However, that does not mean that there was not a Yeshua of Nazareth, and that the Gospels do not contain His teachings. If you like, call Him a guru. If you don't wish to believe that He existed at all, believe that too. All of that is beside the point entirely. The point is Christians who don't question things like the Book of Revelation or Paul's letters to the various churches, and instead worship The Bible as a god itself.
@@epicofgilgamesh9964 You are correct, since you were there and know for certain that there was no destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (which is peculiar since there is a lanscape of calcium sulfate and calcium carbonate deposits, which are by-products of burned-out limestone and sulfur, at the shore of the dead sea at this very moment, and I have been there, seen them, and broken some of the material off myself to find that it has a similar consistency as talc, but a little harder, more brittle; also went swimming in the dead sea, floated like a balloon), Abraham is a fictitious figure (which is weird because, after all, the Jews DO exist), there were no eyewitnesses to Jesus's resurrection, no Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus on a cross, no Jews who preached the gospel in several nations around the Roman empire in the years following Jesus's death (strange, since there are almost 2.5 billion people in the world who call themselves Christian), no destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70ad (a major anomaly because the wailing wall in Jerusalem is still standing, and I have been there also), no apostles named Peter, Andrew, James, John, and Matthew, who were from Capernaum, four of whom were fishermen, all five except for Matthew, who was a tax collector (which is also somewhat bewildering because the ruins of Capernaum are on the northwestern shore of the Sea of Galilee, which would make perfect sense that some of the disciples were fishermen; by the way, I've visited the ruins of Capernaum also, and several other Biblical locations in Israel), and no other of the numerous things described in the Bible's narrative. Other religions and their stories existing prior to Biblical events is really irrelevant. For almost 200 years, archaeology has continually affirmed the accuracy of the things written in the Bible.
Absolute nonsense regardless of why men later kept revelation in the canon the fact is it belongs. The book of revelation is cohesive with the entire Bible and should be viewed as such, some thinking it unsophisticated and out of place is their own problem perhaps they do not know the entire Bible well enough to understand that which they have received, how any so-called Christian can speak against revelation is astounding and have earned such a one a mark of shame.
2 місяці тому+1
well the whole book is garbage so revelation is an appropriate ending
How easy it is to dismiss things we do not have problem knowledge of, I wonder is it a defense or perhaps fear, more knowledge has been lost in this world due to fear than anything else and we are far the less for it.
With what do you have to show for it being “cohesive” with the entire Bible? I think you just simply wish for its status to not be changed and are just mad at Dan.
@@solidstorm6129 the events being described in the revelation are foreshadowed throughout the Bible from its very first page if you read the Bible from the beginning you’ll notice certain themes repeat and each time a bit more information is added leading up to this final revelation many people read the stories recorded in the old testament in isolation yet they are better understood as layers like an onion or Russian nesting doll they are treasure wrapped in treasure, when you read the gospel properly from an ancient Hebrew perspective you see events such as the exodus the conquest of Canaan fall of Jericho among many other unfolding in real time during the time of Jesus ministry and acts of the apostles for these all pointed to and foreshadowed those days. Most scholars believe themselves the smartest people on the planet they believe this because they live in a bubble bumping the same old ideas off one another in a circle of confirmation bias and no one dare step outside the norm after all it’s what their life work careers and livelihoods are built off, their zealotry reminds me of the instance in acts when the Ephesians figured the teaching of Paul would bring down their craft and rioted. To reconsider and accept the truth will no doubt bring down many yet at the same time put others in their proper place, I for one rather see the Lord his disciples and all those people we read about in the book gloried than these men who’ve seen nothing done nothing but disparage them. How you take my words positive or negatively is on you whatever the choice you make I wish you well on your journey keep asking questions keep knocking down doors.
@lemnisgate8809 So what about the Hebrew Bible being derivative of *older* mythologies? How does that fit into "God's word"? --------------------------------------------------------- *The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.*** *Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.*** ***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service. *"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"* *"Sumerian Is the World's Oldest Written Language | ProLingo"* *"Sumerian Civilization: Inventing the Future - World History Encyclopedia"* ("The Sumerians were the people of southern Mesopotamia whose civilization flourished between c. 4100-1750 BCE." "Ancient Israelites and their origins date back to 1800-1200 BCE.") *"The Myth of Adapa - World History Encyclopedia"* Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:50 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes. From a Biblical scholar: "Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."* *"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"* ------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition, look up the below articles. *"Genesis 1:1-2 --- not a creation ex nihilo"* - Dr Steven DiMattei *"Yahweh was just an ancient Canaanite god. We have been deceived! - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* *"Hammurabi - World History Encyclopedia"* (Hammurabi (r. 1792-1750 BCE) was the sixth king of the Amorite First Dynasty of Babylon best known for his famous law code which served as the model for others, *including the Mosaic Law of the Bible.)* *"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"* *"The Greatest Trick Religion Ever Pulled: Convincing Us That Satan Exists | Atheomedy"* *"Zoroastrianism And Persian Mythology: The Foundation Of Belief"* (Scroll to the last section: Zoroastrianism is the Foundation of Western Belief) *"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"* *"January | 2014 | Atheomedy"* - Where the Hell Did the Idea of Hell Come From? *"Retired bishop explains the reason why the Church invented "Hell" - Ideapod"* Watch *"The Origins of Salvation, Judgement and Hell"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica (Sensitive theists should only watch from 7:00 to 17:30 minutes as evangelical Christians are lambasted. He's a former theist and has been studying the scholarship and comparative religions for over 15 years) *"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"* *"Forget about Noah's Ark; There Was No Worldwide Flood | Bible Interp"* *"The Search for Noah’s Flood - Biblical Archaeology Society"* *"Eridu Genesis - World History Encyclopedia"* *"The Atrahasis Epic: The Great Flood & the Meaning of Suffering - World History Encyclopedia"* Watch *"How Aron Ra Debunks Noah's Flood"* (8 part series debunking Noah's flood using multiple branches of science) *"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"* *"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"* *"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"* *"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"* *"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"* *"Studying the Bible"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei (This particular article from a critical Biblical scholar highlights how the authors of the Hebrew Bible used their *fictional* god as a mouthpiece for their own views and ideologies) *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei
Dan never mentions the Montanists in this video and just makes up his own story about Christians “‘Not seeing Jesus in Revelation”. What a joke. This is like Bart Ehrman surface level crapola.
2 місяці тому+2
he didn't say christians don't see Jesus in revelation. he said SOME christians had difficulty with that. nice straw man.
IIRC, Bart Erhman also points out that early Christians didn't like Rev because of how materialistic it is...While the Jesus of the gospels doesn't like or care about wealth and riches, Rev shows Heaven to be all gold and gemstones everywhere! I might add that John, being an early Christian who was victimized by Rome, clearly sees Rome as The Enemy, but by the time the Bible is being put together, Romans ARE Christians, and so, that "anti-Roman" aspect might be off-putting, as well. Apparently, it was Rev identifying Jesus as "The Alpha and The Omega" that was the deciding factor, as that could be used to support the Trinity...Which is also odd, because when you read the final part, it kinda confuses Jesus' identity: He's the one showing all this to John, except maybe that's an angel? But he clearly tells John NOT to worship him, but ONLY to worship God, which would seem to defeat the entire notion of the Trinity...
But then The Doctor uses The Hand to destroy Skaro, and that, along with his actions during the early development of The Daleks, helps to start the Time War and The Book of Revelation is rendered utterly meaningless.
@@Dalekzilla Ah, but that's just what everyone *thought*, until The War of the Daleks retconned the destruction of Skaro during the Council of BBC Books, which is why the planet is still around in the New Revival, something something, Profit...although Revelation is still meaningless. *Remembrance*, OTOH, is awesome!😉
A very good point.
@@HandofOmega I just want them to establish that the very first Doctor was the alternate universe Peter Cushing Doctor Who, and all the Time Lords based their "Timeless Children" DNA on him. LOL. And then the Peter Cushing Doctor turns out to be Ruby's father.......and Davros is Rogue's Great Uncle! And you know what? With RTD in charge, it just might happen!
Maybe we're really in the End Times because it's easy to get cultured pearls and man-made rubies, sapphires, emeralds and diamonds for vastly less than before. Mikimoto transformed the pearl industry. It's possible to grow food for everyone now. So the city depicted in Revelation would be much cheaper to build and the invention of the blue LED (made possible by the stubbornness of one man) would make it much cheaper to light and produce much less waste heat.
Thanks Dan. So much damage has come from beliefs associated with Revelations.
Cheers for Levar Burton for standing up to the mind-controlling elements. I've read many of these banned books and they all have something of value, something to teach us.
As someone that grew up on reading rainbow that shirt is amazing.
It's inclusion has traumatized kids (and adults) for centuries, and continues to do so.
I mean the goal was power
So i've heard.
It never was for me
I've liked it since junior high school. So much of hebrew scripture has left out the crazy bits that other religions have. I really enjoy the fantastic elements of revelation. And it is such an extreme book of comfort.
So true still struggling and recovering from this 😢
Traumatized? How? The book is all but unintelligible, and young people regularly see worse images in your average horror movie.
@@stevevastaBecause it’s taught to them as fact, not fiction.
If only it hadn't ...
As TJ said, "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."
Dreams have a coherence all their own. The idea that dreams are meaningless is a dangerous one psychologically. It risks completely ignoring powerful insights into our own psyche that we just don't have access to in waking hours. Most mental and physiological processes are subconscious, and anything that allows us to peak under the hood as dreams do is an invaluable resource.
Who is TJ? I'm not here to defend Revelation, but that attitude sounds like someone unfamiliar with the Jewish Apocalyptic genre. Read 1 Enoch, 4 Ezra, the Apocalypse of Abraham, and others, and Revelation will suddenly make much more sense.
Who is TJ?
@@supremeoverlord5220 TJ is Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson's version of the Bible is the only one most should bother reading.
Sounds like a book of dreams and drug induced visions. Drug induced meditation was widely used to connect with the gods. What makes Jewish God the only one?
Apologists to-this-day still claim they're the same John. Thank you for combatting the misinformation as always!
@@Theprofessorator Well the early Church claimed it was from the same John. It was canonized because it was from John, other first century sources like “The Apocalypse of Peter” were thrown because there was no actual proof or link to Peter, other first century texts like the Epistles of Ignatious, or the Didache despite being influential and highly respected were thrown out because they weren’t from the apostles, this goes to show there was a verification process and chain of authorship that was held to determine which texts made it into the canon.
@@BuffAle
We have at least 3 books by Paul, which weren't written by Paul, two books of Peter that were most probably written by different authors, so perhaps the criteria weren't quite what we have been led to believe
@@bristolrovers27 those aren’t a scholarly consensus, Second Peter can easily be written by Peter and but copied by another interpreter, this would explain the difference in grammar and style. And the other epistles of Paul can also easily be written by Paul again this is a hot topic of debate but it often comes down to the difference in literary style and grammar. Yet many scholars still hold on to the traditional view. So your position is just as valid as mine, but mine is accepted by the contemporary and historical records of that time.
But he doesn't combat it so much as he makes some assertions in line with a few other modern scholars, all of which has been addressed more thoroughly by people such as Stephen de Young or a lady who is arguably the foremost living authority on this particular topic, Eugenia Constantinou. I like a lot of Dan's videos, but it seems on this subject he's not familiar with either of those individuals or, more importantly, how The Revelation (no "s") of St. John has always been handled in the Eastern Church.
@Gregorydrobny he's doing it in short format so I get why it can come off as assertive but if you watch any of his livestreams or other conversations he's definitely not just asserting everything. He has references for most of his claims and its miles ahead of anything Apologists are putting forward.
Dan at least references people in relevant fields and is a relevant expert himself. It's not like it's some cold case detective that thinks he's solved a 2,000 year old crime that people have been pouring themselves into for their entire lives.
I don't follow Dan blindly, but on Revelation. Even much of the early church is on Dan's side. So it's not just a "few other scholars."
"and the fit for this video is still..."😂😂
I get so tired of the talk about “the last days”! As a late Boomer I remember hearing that the last days were upon us, that we were the chosen generation, that we’d suffer from the wickedness of the world etc, etc, etc. I now think that the whole Revelation talk was to scare us into behaving as the church wanted us to. As a ten year old I had nightmares about Armageddon and about having to walk back to Missouri with possibly a handcart to pull (Mormon lore). Not anymore. It’s unethical to use scripture to scare church members into behaving and doing what the leaders want them to be and do. It’s a form of religious abuse, and it’s time to call it out for what it is-abuse and mind control plain and simple.
Now this is where the late-Boomer Catholic church scored over Protestant sects. In those days, Catholics were actively discouraged from reading the Bible -- I'm not joking -- so Revelation, or "Apocalypse" as it was then, barely registered with us.
I grew up with nearly every discussion of the future having 'if the Lord tarries that long' added to it. It's really discouraging being a teenager and constantly having people tell you that the world is probably going to end before you get to experience any part of adulthood. And yet at the same time you're told you need to get a good education, get a good job, treat any romantic relationships as if they are leading to lifelong marriage, etc. So much cognitive dissonance and confusion.
@@Recluse336 Having been raised Catholic, I've never entirely understood that mindset. The focus on the end times in the New Testament suggests that it was something people in those religious traditions were expecting near-term,. The near-obsession with it now -- and with such concepts as the Rapture, tenuously connected to Scripture at best -- among some evangelical sects is disconcerting, to say the least.
Yes. That's exactly what it is used for.
I think it’s a way to get off the planet. A way to shirk responsibility. I remember listening to a ‘last days’ preacher who was almost frothing at the mouth when he said ‘you think god cares about trees? Read Revelation and see what he does to them!’
That’s the attitude. Ruin the earth because we have some other better place to go to.
Surely a large part of the appeal of Revelation was that it brought the cosmic drama that began with Genesis to a kind of theatrical grand finale. For that reason alone its problematic elements were glossed over, first by many individual theologians and then by the consensus of the Church.
yep. it's an ending and then some. Makes sense from a literary perspective.
I really appreciate your videos Dan, thank you.
I consider the workings of Athanasius to rank among the most damaging in human history.
Who's in and who's out is determined by who's doing enough? That's not the gospel.
Luther also did not hold Revelation in high regard (along with a few other books) because he did not see the Christ of Revelation as similar to the Christ of the Gospels. I think one's view of whether Revelation is important come down to whether one is inclined towards a vengeful God or a merciful and forgiving God. I grew up with it being impressed upon me that Revelation was very important and pertinent to our times, but now I see it as an interesting oddity at best and a distracting waste of time at worst. It certainly doesn't seem to contain much if any of the original theology and philosophy of Jesus as a preacher, as found in the Gospels. There is a definite shift away from salvation and redemption towards vengeance and punishment.
The scholar who was in charge of editing the Canon was high on magic mushrooms, so he found Revelation really cool!
You definitely need a Captain OG Readmore shirt.
Hypothetical: how different would history be if Revelation wasn't made canon, but Enoch was?
Obviously by "canon" I imply Christianity here, and "Enoch" is a bunch of writings, and by "history" I could have said "European history" - but then, Europe invaded a fair amount of places and brought this with them, so I'm sticking with "history", because many a political and military decision was based on ideas of The End Times etc. Really I just wanted to avoid having my comment minimized and having a "Read More" like it definitely did with this comment.
As a Catholic, I recognize Justin Martyr and Athanasius as saints. They might need to get their halos checked.
Ah, I know that, more or less. Not because it’s such a magnificent piece of work.
❤❤❤❤❤ thanks Dan!!!
It is said in the Orthodox Chruch that John told his vision, so that is one way we see why the Greek is different.
I also do believe Ireneaus of Lyons (2nd century contemporary with Justin Martyr) also stated that the book of Revelation as authoritative. Unsure if he believed it was written by John, but he saw it as authoritative along with the letters of Paul. Ireneaus was also trained by Polycarp of Smyrna, who was also trained by John himsel by hlchurhc history.
Edit:Another reason why Revelation was contested, was since it is difficult to understand and that many people for the first 3 centuries kept claiming it was about their times, which what we see the evangelicals sadly do. Ther orthodox believe it to be about the past, present and future, we don't even read it in our services, since we know it can be twisted by sensationalists.
I think it’s also important to note that all the canonical books of the New Tetsament date to the first century, meaning these books are the earliest sources for Christian theology, values, and beliefs, regardless of the early church’s controversial views on the book, it was very influential and widely recognized as a valuable texts, this makes its inclusion into the bible rather logical. Other sources from the first century which claimed to be from the apostles, specifically “The Apocalypse of Peter” was thrown out due to a lack of proof for authorship despite the texts not inheritly contridicting Christian teachings, this shows there was at least some type of verification of the books that the church took into account. Other first century texts like “Gospel of Thomas” were simply thrown out from the canon for heresy, however a lot of first century Orthodox sources were also thrown out, “Letters of Clement” “Epistles of Ignatious” and “the Didache” simply for not being written by an apostle and more of a “second source”. This consistently shows that a criterion for canon is that it was supposedly written by the apostles and widely accepted an authentic text. So I agree Revelation was likely written by John as the early church says and the canonization confirms
I joined the Orthodox Church for about 8-9 years as a last attempt at remaining Christian before eventually leaving entirely and my experience was it still holds a rather tenuous position within the Orthodox canon. While everyone largely agrees it should be there, as you said, it is not read in any services and from my experience there is still some hesitation as to what extent people should read it as part of personal study. I remember hearing of quite a few leaders who were hesitant about people trying to study Revelations, especially any in depth study and a few discouraged reading it all, without their study being at least somewhat overseen by someone who had some education in the Orthodox interpretation of Revelations because it was viewed as being far too easily misunderstood and interpreted wrongly. But that was just my experience, perhaps others have had different experiences.
@@Recluse336 I would say that is partly due to the nature of revelation being so confusing, it genuinely is a very confusing text, if one were to try and study it without proper spiritual understanding or guidance it could easily lead to heresy or different conclusions. It is accepted but not really encouraged as any interpretation is equally as valid or unvalid. But the result of the text is always the same, the message that Christ is coming soon. Apart from that I am sorry to hear you left the church, I pray the Jesus guides you back, I find solace in learning more about the early church and the historical evidence for Christ death and ressurection, despite all objections it remains one of the most influential stories and events in all human history, quite literally God coming into the human world.
@BuffAle thank you, have had a better explanation than I did.
And about clement and other 1st century letters, they are still heavily to be encouraged to be read by Orthodox members to better understand the faith. There is a good collection on them called "the apostolic fathers."
Also, if people think Revelation is a sad and terrifying read, then the apocalypse of Peter makes it look like chowder.
@Recluse336 which ever path in life you go down. I hope you do well
Thanks Dan. ❤
Thanks Dan! I shared this one.
In 1988 the Jehovah's Witnesses published the most hilarious commentary on Revelation ever. I sold my copy on ebay and got $30 for it. It's called Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand and is still available on their website. Right away in chapter two it asserts the univocality of the Bible. Later on it interprets the seven trumpet blasts as punished declarations by the Watchtower Society and says the fall of Babylon the Great happened in 1919 when 7 members of the board of directors were released from an Atlanta prison. Too bad all of the horrid illustrations of Armageddon and whatnot aren't available but there are a lot of websites displaying them and how weird they are, including someb very strange what some people might term "subliminal messages." Most any ordinary Christian would look at it as a book from the devil.
Funny how JWs, essentially modern arians, are so obsessed with a book that was included in the canon for the purpose of marginalizing arians.
Revelation is useful to religious authorities because it’s so deliciously vague and cryptic that it can be made to say just about anything.
Thinking of Revelations, I hope y'all are ready for the Rapture on October 9, 2024. I mean, which rapture number is this? About 287 or so? Or is it now in the thousands? Can I bring some popcorn as I watch people rise up into the 'heavens'?
I think it’s also important to note that all the canonical books of the New Tetsament date to the first century, meaning these books are the earliest sources for Christian theology, values, and beliefs, regardless of the early church’s controversial views on the book, it was very influential and widely recognized as a valuable texts, this makes its inclusion into the bible rather logical. Other sources from the first century which claimed to be from the apostles, specifically “The Apocalypse of Peter” was thrown out due to a lack of proof for authorship despite the texts not inheritly contridicting Christian teachings, this shows there was at least some type of verification of the books that the church took into account. Other first century texts like “Gospel of Thomas” were simply thrown out from the canon for heresy, however a lot of first century Orthodox sources were also thrown out, “Letters of Clement” “Epistles of Ignatious” and “the Didache” simply for not being written by an apostle and more of a “second source”. This consistently shows that a criterion for canon is that it was supposedly written by the apostles and widely accepted an authentic text.
No, not all of the letters in the NT date to the first century. This is simply not true. It wasn’t until the 19th century that the Syriac Orthodox Church accepted 1st and 2nd Peter as canon and did so because “that’s how bibles are printed now.” They knew Peter did not write them and they were not written till the second century.
@@chuckshingledecker2216 Wrong, They literally all date to the first century lol. And just because the syriac church didn’t accept it doesn’t matter, because it was canon in the orthodox church and Catholic church by the 3rd century not the 19th lmaooo. I think you need to check your sources.
Wooooooooo😮 spooky. Those old power structuring gremlins are everywhere. Wooooooooo.
always gotta have a boogie-man waiting in the wings- ask any LDS . .
Revelation is still used to oppress out groups.
I know there's a lot of atheist and a satanists that give you a hard time. I really appreciate you taking the time too answer questions if you will have. Just keep searching overall on the same journey to find the truth and I don't think any of us are close yet. Reading the New Testament in Greek has been a game changer for me. Rules out all the questions and gets down to the sources.
Also, it livens up the Bible. Even for the most devout, parts of the Bible can be a snooze fest. Throw in dragons and horsemen and battles… plus a (happy?) ending where the bad guys get thrown in a lake of fire… really spices things up.
Exactly because it's so grotesque Revelation is my favourite Bible book. It gave me several good laughs. It's the only one I read in one go.
Revelation should have stayed out of the canon
I'm glad it's there.
I've enjoyed it since I was a little kid. A lot of fun fantastical elements. The chaos. The chaos upon chaos. But the love of god triumphs over all evil and all chaos. And in the end all tears are wiped away. It is a great book of comfort.
I probably would have read it eventually anyway.
But since it was in the cannon I grew up with it as well.
I grew up conservative and wouldn't have approved of reading non canonical heretical scriptures.
There should be no canon.
@langreeves6419 Yeah, people being sent to hell for the "crime" of not believing a story that has no external corroboration, is a real comfort..
@@epicofgilgamesh9964 Why would you believe something like that?
That's horrible
There is no comfort there at all
You must be reading the wrong book.
All applications are up to the end user.
So if the book means such a horrible thing to you, that's on you for deciding on a horrible application.
Athanasius accused anyone who didn't agree with him of being an Arian or a heretic. The accusations he made towards the gnostics are clearly distortions if you compare them to Mandaean beliefs. Not surprised to learn of his promotion of Revelation. Thanks Dan.😊
I'm considering the proposal that I first heard from Dr. Tabor, that the Revelation to John of Patmos was originally a non-Christian Jewish text. It would have been Christianized later (as it was translated/transformed into Greek.)
The main reason of course is that many elements of Revelation line up with the book of Daniel.
This was an awful idea. It has brought endless grief and may get us all wiped out.
The bible does a good job of making God look bipolar.
i like the book of revelation ... it separates the goats from the sheep and show who is the one who will judge you for your action ... in the gospel Jesus show how the people should being walking and in the book of revaluation it show the judgment on how you choice to live ... just like the book of Deuteronomy with blessing or cursing ... god does not condemn ... he judge ... like in a court system ... if you do evil then you will be judge for your action and if you do good then you will be judge for your action ... Deut 5:10 (KJV)
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Except for a few Pauline Epistles most of the new testament is written by anonymous people claiming to be someone else.
Thank you.
In Answer to Job, Carl Jung argued that the portrayal of God in the Old Testament often includes both loving and wrathful aspects, reflecting a complex and contradictory nature. The apocalyptic imagery of Revelation, with its themes of judgment and wrath, suggests to Jung that the darker, less acknowledged side of the divine is coming to the forefront just as the lighter more loving aspects did with the portrayal of Jesus in the first century. This aspect of God is in need of reconciliation and integration, just as individuals must come to terms with their own shadows.
Hey Dan, you're awesome
Dan...you omit that Athansius was referred to as the Father of Orthodoxy or that the groups he argued against were seen to be in error in their beliefs by the Church. In other words far from being on a power trip - he was representing the views of the apostles passed down through the ages.
Just a question… If Athanasius of Alexandria stamped his approval of Revelation in the late 4th century then what bible did Constantine commission after the council of Nicaea ? It’s been suggested that Codex Sinaiticus may have been one of those 50 bibles…and that codex contains Revelation …
I wonder if another reason it was canonized was because of its weird language and incomprehensible imagery. Its very strangeness gives it a mystical, dream-like quality, like the Jewish Kabbalah or the Daoist I Ching, which would appeal to people looking to delve into a more esoteric form of religiosity.
The real question is why does almost everyone call it the book of revelationS*
Didn’t Martin Luther try to throw out Revelation? Shame it didn’t stick.
But he changed his mind and came to like it.
Early on yes. By the end of life he became a vengeful shell of his younger self I decided to use it to say the Papacy was the beast etc. PS: I am a Lutheran pastor.
What are your thoughts on Frank E. Peretti's books, which seem to be like how Christians interpret Revelation- used to interpret and understand spiritual warfare, but really seem to be misunderstandings of certain passages of the bible?
I like Dr James Tabor’s theory that it originally was a Jewish writer. He points to many Christian interpolations within the text showing they were totally unnecessary and a simpler reading was revealed when removed. I would add the 7 letters to the churches also are interpolations with horrific theology towards women included.
The religion of the beast sounds a lot like Christianity worshiping a man who declares himself to be god and standing in the temple, who survives a mortal wound. From a Jewish perspective it makes some sense. The image of the messiah coming to destroy Israel’s enemies is entrenched in Judaism. She it’s on one level a polemic against Christianity.
References? Books to read on this ?
How does Revelations structure boundaries? Do you mean directly as a text or indirectly as a source to interpretively cherry-pick support?
Do a video of Greek stories before the Torah. They are awfully familiar to Jesus stories. Can you explain that?
Hello Dan. Where did you get your degree in theology?
I think it could be argued that Jesus (if existed) , would not have approved for a New Testament.
Jeremy Duncan's book Upside Down Apocalypse explores how if you think Jesus of Revelation differs from Jesus of the gospels, then you've misunderstood Revelation.
For example, in an early scene, you hear about a lion like David. But when you turn to look, that's not what you see. You see a murdered lamb. Yes, Jesus conquers, but by winning hearts through sacrifice, not by military power. Similarly, revenge fantasies are just that, fantasies that are shown not to work. Jesus conquers with the sword from his mouth, winning hearts with the gospel.
That's why I'm glad Revelation made it into the canon. It's remarkable work and pertinent in the present (possibly every) era.
"That's why I'm glad Revelation made it into the canon. "
@@TheDanEdwards Right? Christians had no problem making all kinds of texts right up until one group of them started getting authoritarian and violent.
Now people think that a text is " pertinent in the present (possibly every) era" simply for it being canon. You can shoehorn in any meaning you want in an allegory. You can make anything pertinent if you force it. Earlier christians would've just written better, more pertinent texts.
Canon was the worst thing to happen to christianity. It drove them all crazy trying to constantly renegotiate the meaning of texts that weren't written for them in order to force them to be relevant.
@@TheDanEdwards christianity couldn't exist without a canon. at a minimum the accepted gospels have to be combined. Otherwise you would have very different stand alone accounts of the Jesus story.
Except it did for over 300 years before we get to the council that formally canonized the Bible, the Council of Rome in 382 CE.
Yes, because according to Revelation, unbelievers are sent to hell for the "crime" of not believing a story that has no external corroboration. What a "loving" God and Jesus it portrays. Wonderful... 🙄
Book of Apocalypse.
Let me ask , if at all the orignal languages where Hebrew , Aramiac , e.t.c so we who dont speak those languages, how did we get concerned. just because some guys translated.
I don't know, Dan. Matthew 24 verse 4 -27 is pretty much in alignment with Revelations, isn't it? Along with parts of the other Gospels
With what else do you have to show for that claim? Anything? Looking at them both, last I recall, they appeared to be quite contrasting.
@solidstorm6129 They appear to be quite complimentary to me! Both say there will be great destruction and then restoration
@@lawrencee1113 and that’s it? Even things that share similar details can be in a state of dissonance with each other, you know.
@solidstorm6129 It is all in harmony! You just don't hear it ! Different authors at different times , all telling the story as best as humanly possible ! Duh
@@lawrencee1113 sure it is. With what proof have you presented for it? Just “Oh look! They cover the same topics!”? That’s nothing for your opinion.
That ending to rev is also near the beginning of deuteronomy. Seems most of the Bible shouldn’t exist
What would Christianity be like today if Constantine didn't make it politically useful?
#AriusWasRight
Wow, twice I've tried to post and give people a way to find the evidence that shows Dan is incorrect, but both have been deleted almost immediately
Perhaps Dan has some kind of bot to remove links thinking they are spam. Just google "ntcanon"
The best thing would be to put everything in the cannon, and fire it off into space! :-)
Everything the anti-christ does in the book of Revelation, God does 10 times worse.
So you could constantly tell us what God _really_ meant. Duh.
It was one of the more interesting reads of all of the books for me. But I was always puzzled by its inclusion because I was under the impression that the Councils wanted harmonization among the books. Wasn’t that the reason why a lot of the apocrypha didn’t make it? The book is sus to me. And the power interpretation seems plausible.
the canon needs an ending. revelation is an ending. it's also roughly consistent with the gospels.
First off, the book of Revelation corresponds with the chiasmic structure used in Jewish literature.
Secondly, the beast imagery used in Revelation is the same as Daniel seven.
Third, a whore, which is the same symbolism used throughout the Old Testament for apostate Israel is consistent with Revelation.
Fourth, it is consistent with the teaching of the Trinity
Fifth, the structure of Hebrew parallelism found in Daniel is used in Revelation
Sixth, the seven churches in revelation accurately describe the different stages in the history of the church over the course of the last two thousand years.
When reading and interpreting Daniel and Revelation it must be approached in an historical way. If you take a futuristic or prederate approach it will not make sense.
That was a waste of time
And yet, here you are.
I think you give the author of revelation a bad wrap, obviously there's some big issues but imo he was likely Jewish and after ce70 any violent wishes toward rome are fully valid. You can't blame an oppressed person for how they respond to that oppression. That's not to justify athanasius' imperialist appropriation of it or the harm it's caused since, or claim the imagery in it isn't grotesque at times
"and after ce70 any violent wishes toward rome are fully valid"
Are they though? Tiny little Israelite kingdom hypes itself up into having a hilariously high opinion of themselves. Pisses off one of the largest power structures the world has ever seen, this in spite of being given special treatment for their beliefs. And then they subsequently get their cheeks clapped after years of warning from earlier agitations.
Like, not to say that the vassalization was fine. But it was how they did things then. If Israel had any power at all, they'd have been the ones doing the vassalizing. They were just mad that they are weak. They got so mad that they became delusional and picked a fight with someone they had no hope of ever winning against.
You might be able to claim some validity if there was any sort of unified effort here but there really wasn't. It was largely one faction within Israelite society that decided they were going to endanger everybody else by harassing and killing a bunch of non-Israelites and later several thousand Roman soldiers.
It was a bad idea guided by myopic thinking and seemingly lead by religious intolerance and a delusional fervor which landed everybody in hot water.
In other words, they poked a bear and then cried about getting their arm chewed off.
The Book of Revelation had nothing to do with Christ's teachings whatsoever, and of course Christ was not involved in it in any way. It came entirely from a Human man's "vision", and has down through the centuries continued to be incorrectly interpreted as predicting events thousands of years in the future, rather than being about the Roman Empire. Like Paul's opinions that he wrote in letters to the churches, this was in no way "God's Word" and should never have been declared as such by the early Church.
NONE of the collection of mythology is "God's word." 😅
It's the 21st century. Duh.
If only you had been there to tell the early church fathers what books to include
None of it is "God's word" and it is derivative of *older* mythologies.
---------------------------------------------------------
*The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.***
*Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.***
***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service.
*"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"*
*"Sumerian Is the World's Oldest Written Language | ProLingo"*
*"Sumerian Civilization: Inventing the Future - World History Encyclopedia"*
("The Sumerians were the people of southern Mesopotamia whose civilization flourished between c. 4100-1750 BCE."
"Ancient Israelites and their origins date back to 1800-1200 BCE.")
*"The Myth of Adapa - World History Encyclopedia"*
Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:50 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes.
From a Biblical scholar:
"Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."*
*"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"*
------------------------------------------------------------------
In addition, look up the below articles.
*"Genesis 1:1-2 --- not a creation ex nihilo"* - Dr Steven DiMattei
*"Yahweh was just an ancient Canaanite god. We have been deceived! - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*
*"Hammurabi - World History Encyclopedia"*
(Hammurabi (r. 1792-1750 BCE) was the sixth king of the Amorite First Dynasty of Babylon best known for his famous law code which served as the model for others, *including the Mosaic Law of the Bible.)*
*"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"*
*"The Greatest Trick Religion Ever Pulled: Convincing Us That Satan Exists | Atheomedy"*
*"Zoroastrianism And Persian Mythology: The Foundation Of Belief"*
(Scroll to the last section: Zoroastrianism is the Foundation of Western Belief)
*"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"*
*"January | 2014 | Atheomedy"* - Where the Hell Did the Idea of Hell Come From?
*"Retired bishop explains the reason why the Church invented "Hell" - Ideapod"*
Watch *"The Origins of Salvation, Judgement and Hell"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica
(Sensitive theists should only watch from 7:00 to 17:30 minutes as evangelical Christians are lambasted. He's a former theist and has been studying the scholarship and comparative religions for over 15 years)
*"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"*
*"Forget about Noah's Ark; There Was No Worldwide Flood | Bible Interp"*
*"The Search for Noah’s Flood - Biblical Archaeology Society"*
*"Eridu Genesis - World History Encyclopedia"*
*"The Atrahasis Epic: The Great Flood & the Meaning of Suffering - World History Encyclopedia"*
Watch *"How Aron Ra Debunks Noah's Flood"*
(8 part series debunking Noah's flood using multiple branches of science)
*"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"*
*"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"*
*"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"*
*"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"*
*"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"*
*"Studying the Bible"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei
(This particular article from a critical Biblical scholar highlights how the authors of the Hebrew Bible used their *fictional* god as a mouthpiece for their own views and ideologies)
*"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei
*"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei
@@epicofgilgamesh9964 I agree. The Bible is a book written by rather primitive Human men, who put their opinions, prejudices, and cultural traditions into their writings. However, that does not mean that there was not a Yeshua of Nazareth, and that the Gospels do not contain His teachings. If you like, call Him a guru. If you don't wish to believe that He existed at all, believe that too. All of that is beside the point entirely. The point is Christians who don't question things like the Book of Revelation or Paul's letters to the various churches, and instead worship The Bible as a god itself.
@@epicofgilgamesh9964 You are correct, since you were there and know for certain that there was no destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (which is peculiar since there is a lanscape of calcium sulfate and calcium carbonate deposits, which are by-products of burned-out limestone and sulfur, at the shore of the dead sea at this very moment, and I have been there, seen them, and broken some of the material off myself to find that it has a similar consistency as talc, but a little harder, more brittle; also went swimming in the dead sea, floated like a balloon), Abraham is a fictitious figure (which is weird because, after all, the Jews DO exist), there were no eyewitnesses to Jesus's resurrection, no Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus on a cross, no Jews who preached the gospel in several nations around the Roman empire in the years following Jesus's death (strange, since there are almost 2.5 billion people in the world who call themselves Christian), no destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70ad (a major anomaly because the wailing wall in Jerusalem is still standing, and I have been there also), no apostles named Peter, Andrew, James, John, and Matthew, who were from Capernaum, four of whom were fishermen, all five except for Matthew, who was a tax collector (which is also somewhat bewildering because the ruins of Capernaum are on the northwestern shore of the Sea of Galilee, which would make perfect sense that some of the disciples were fishermen; by the way, I've visited the ruins of Capernaum also, and several other Biblical locations in Israel), and no other of the numerous things described in the Bible's narrative. Other religions and their stories existing prior to Biblical events is really irrelevant. For almost 200 years, archaeology has continually affirmed the accuracy of the things written in the Bible.
you mean still more political propaganda for means of control? really? in da bible? cmon lol
The Holy Spirit guided The Church
Maybe you're wrong. Maybe the Holy Spirit guides Dr. McClellan?
Narrator: "It did not".
Your proof for that is?
Absolute nonsense regardless of why men later kept revelation in the canon the fact is it belongs. The book of revelation is cohesive with the entire Bible and should be viewed as such, some thinking it unsophisticated and out of place is their own problem perhaps they do not know the entire Bible well enough to understand that which they have received, how any so-called Christian can speak against revelation is astounding and have earned such a one a mark of shame.
well the whole book is garbage so revelation is an appropriate ending
How easy it is to dismiss things we do not have problem knowledge of, I wonder is it a defense or perhaps fear, more knowledge has been lost in this world due to fear than anything else and we are far the less for it.
With what do you have to show for it being “cohesive” with the entire Bible? I think you just simply wish for its status to not be changed and are just mad at Dan.
@@solidstorm6129 the events being described in the revelation are foreshadowed throughout the Bible from its very first page if you read the Bible from the beginning you’ll notice certain themes repeat and each time a bit more information is added leading up to this final revelation many people read the stories recorded in the old testament in isolation yet they are better understood as layers like an onion or Russian nesting doll they are treasure wrapped in treasure, when you read the gospel properly from an ancient Hebrew perspective you see events such as the exodus the conquest of Canaan fall of Jericho among many other unfolding in real time during the time of Jesus ministry and acts of the apostles for these all pointed to and foreshadowed those days. Most scholars believe themselves the smartest people on the planet they believe this because they live in a bubble bumping the same old ideas off one another in a circle of confirmation bias and no one dare step outside the norm after all it’s what their life work careers and livelihoods are built off, their zealotry reminds me of the instance in acts when the Ephesians figured the teaching of Paul would bring down their craft and rioted. To reconsider and accept the truth will no doubt bring down many yet at the same time put others in their proper place, I for one rather see the Lord his disciples and all those people we read about in the book gloried than these men who’ve seen nothing done nothing but disparage them. How you take my words positive or negatively is on you whatever the choice you make I wish you well on your journey keep asking questions keep knocking down doors.
@lemnisgate8809 So what about the Hebrew Bible being derivative of *older* mythologies? How does that fit into "God's word"?
---------------------------------------------------------
*The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.***
*Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.***
***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service.
*"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"*
*"Sumerian Is the World's Oldest Written Language | ProLingo"*
*"Sumerian Civilization: Inventing the Future - World History Encyclopedia"*
("The Sumerians were the people of southern Mesopotamia whose civilization flourished between c. 4100-1750 BCE."
"Ancient Israelites and their origins date back to 1800-1200 BCE.")
*"The Myth of Adapa - World History Encyclopedia"*
Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:50 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes.
From a Biblical scholar:
"Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."*
*"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"*
------------------------------------------------------------------
In addition, look up the below articles.
*"Genesis 1:1-2 --- not a creation ex nihilo"* - Dr Steven DiMattei
*"Yahweh was just an ancient Canaanite god. We have been deceived! - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*
*"Hammurabi - World History Encyclopedia"*
(Hammurabi (r. 1792-1750 BCE) was the sixth king of the Amorite First Dynasty of Babylon best known for his famous law code which served as the model for others, *including the Mosaic Law of the Bible.)*
*"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"*
*"The Greatest Trick Religion Ever Pulled: Convincing Us That Satan Exists | Atheomedy"*
*"Zoroastrianism And Persian Mythology: The Foundation Of Belief"*
(Scroll to the last section: Zoroastrianism is the Foundation of Western Belief)
*"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"*
*"January | 2014 | Atheomedy"* - Where the Hell Did the Idea of Hell Come From?
*"Retired bishop explains the reason why the Church invented "Hell" - Ideapod"*
Watch *"The Origins of Salvation, Judgement and Hell"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica
(Sensitive theists should only watch from 7:00 to 17:30 minutes as evangelical Christians are lambasted. He's a former theist and has been studying the scholarship and comparative religions for over 15 years)
*"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"*
*"Forget about Noah's Ark; There Was No Worldwide Flood | Bible Interp"*
*"The Search for Noah’s Flood - Biblical Archaeology Society"*
*"Eridu Genesis - World History Encyclopedia"*
*"The Atrahasis Epic: The Great Flood & the Meaning of Suffering - World History Encyclopedia"*
Watch *"How Aron Ra Debunks Noah's Flood"*
(8 part series debunking Noah's flood using multiple branches of science)
*"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"*
*"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"*
*"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"*
*"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"*
*"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"*
*"Studying the Bible"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei
(This particular article from a critical Biblical scholar highlights how the authors of the Hebrew Bible used their *fictional* god as a mouthpiece for their own views and ideologies)
*"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei
*"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei
Dan never mentions the Montanists in this video and just makes up his own story about Christians “‘Not seeing Jesus in Revelation”. What a joke. This is like Bart Ehrman surface level crapola.
he didn't say christians don't see Jesus in revelation. he said SOME christians had difficulty with that. nice straw man.
And where are the monatists relevant here? Come on.