This trio killed it, I loved the contrast between each segment of how the Walkman performed from the actual phone experience with miles to the audiophile perspective with Ellis, it was really well done
All I watch is BS craps here. -DAP buyers dont care about those screens and Androids. -DAP buyers dont buy the thing because of the Bluetooth because of those phone jacks. -DAP buyers use the phone as a phone only
These group of people Marques has assembled are really amazing. It's kinda trippy seeing the studio sets but other people sitting there reviewing products, yet the video is still amazingly well produced. About the Walkman itself, I saw a tweet pop off and people replied they're getting their first Walkman ever. Hope they get to see this video before making the purchase. Get some sleep Ellis.
Using most popular music as test material for audiophile gear is like test driving a Ferrari in stop and go traffic. To really see what it can do, you need source material with less compression like classical or jazz, or other styles with more acoustic instruments. Popular music is dynamically compressed, which by nature, means that it will sound pretty similar regardless of the playback system.
Except that he didn't explain that the importance of it is not that great at all since 16/44.1 is already enough for our human ears. I mean that misalignment of the curve is because his example had 16 steps while 16 bit audio have 65536, with the last bit of misalignment is saved by dithering. So it's a very exaggerated example. Also his blindtest is also very flawed, I mean he compared highres from that Sony with 256kbps AAC on an very old iPod, so the difference that they heard was the Sony vs iPod, not highres vs lowres. Highres audio is just a label that companies slap on to try to sell more products, not for the consumers to get an actual audible difference.
@@gurratell7326 Sorry for the confusion, let me try and clear some of this up. The example wave was supposed to be at 4 bits (15 in decimal) and 23 Hertz, which due to the Nyquist Shannon theorem is an unusable sample rate, purely for simple educational purposes. You are correct about the dithering, although that comes more into play when resampling at different rates, not when playing a single file back natively. As for the tests, each person listened to 8 pairs of recordings, each one testing different things. Test 1 was the iPod vs Walkman, tests 2-3 were low res files, one played natively off the hard drive vs upscaled in the Walkman’s DSEE engine. 4-6 were testing hi res tidal streams on the Walkman DAC vs the iPhone DAC, and test 8 was about DSD on high res audio. None of these were supposed to provide benchmarks, just to see how big a difference these things made to regular people. Hope this helped clear things up and thanks for watching!!
@@ellisrovin Yeah I mean it's a good way to show how it works :) But I just felt that you should have emphasized that the actual importance of high res. It has been discussed for quite many years now but with the general consensus being that it's very quite overrated (except when actually working with it). About the dithering, it is (or at least should be) always applied when downsampling to eliminate any quantization errors. Dithering might also be done in the DAC depending on how the inner workings of it. But in the end the bit depth is all about noise floor, and the sample rate is about how high frequencies you can cover. This should also have been emphasized imo :) As for the test. Again, since you in most tests compared with both different formats and different DACs I don't see how those tests is relevant for anything? If you are going to test lowres to highres then you should have EVERYTHING the same except for the formats themselves. So doing the test the way you did will just confuse the viewers of the importance of highres. I mean I agree with your conclusion about the Sony, but how you came to (or at least showed) those conclusions where a bit off imo :)
@@gurratell7326 I hear where you’re coming from. Only test 1 compared low res to high res on different devices, the other 7 only changed one factor and that was the device. I think you’re quickly discovering what makes covering a device like the Walkman so difficult. There are a bunch of advantages to high res audio, a higher sample rate will let you raise your antialiasing filter which yes gives you more highs, but also will reduce phase and distortion (bc antialias filters have steep roll offs that induce phase and filter ring). In the same light, raising your bit rate will lower your noise floor, but it will also lower distortion AND give you higher resolution at multiple gains for samples quantized at a low level. But also, who cares? I mean I care, I have a degree in audio engineering, but even I can accept these giant mathematical concepts reproduce themselves as minute sound adjustments. And I don’t want to make a math video. I mean, I do, but I don’t think the audience wants a math video hahahaha I’ll definitely dive deeper into quantization, sampling, amps, dither, all of it in later videos. But the first cut of this video was 30 min and no one needs 15 min of me talking about sample rate 😭
@@ellisrovin Ah maybe I misunderstood what you wrote then, because I read everything as you did all your tests on the Walkman DAC vs the iPhone DAC, but I guess you meant as you did some tests on the Walkman and other on the iPhone? Higher sample rate can give you more highs yeah, but 44.1khz already give high enough I'd say, especially since most adults don't hear over 16khz anyways, and stuff like phase distortion ain't audible at all anyways, so personally I wouldn't suggest anyone to bother with higher sample rates :) Higher bit depth will give lower noise floor yes, but seeing that 16 bits 96dB+ will give you a dead quite speaker for most places in the world, I mean a _quite_ room is at 20dB, so you'd have to turn that speaker up to say 120dB to hear any noise, but then that noise is drowned in music anyways, so wouldn't worry about that either :) That's my take on it anyways, and I appreciate yours! And also that we get some more audio nerd videos about it ^^ Btw, if you haven't seen it yet, look up Xiph's "D/A and A/D" demonstration here on UA-cam, quality stuff!
Great to see Miles working with the MKBHD team. Missed seeing him on 9to5. Please tell me this is not temporary. He is an absolute pleasure to listen to.
Despite the device that was reviewed :) This was another excellent quality video. Adam is a pro from sound guys but so glad to see Miles and Ellis getting some air time. A truly amazing team you have assembled, Marques!
Miles is an amazing presenter and reviewer! I know the main MKBHD channel is mostly Marques, but I’d love to see more Miles over there. Seriously professional!
It would be great to compare the Walkman to something more similar, like one of the FiiO DAPs that are recognized in the audio enthusiast world. The conclusion that a DAP is not comparable to a smartphone, and that a DAP is not recommended for “regular” music listeners is not a far fetched one. But that is also not the target audience - someone looking to buy a dedicated audio streaming device for $500+ already knows that it does not compare to a smartphone. They want to know how does it fare with high impedance headphones, what DAC is used, what amp is used, how much power does the balanced output deliver… I like the way that the review was set up and how different facets were presented, but for me it missed the main talking points I would like to know about a DAP.
Best tech video I’ve seen in a long time! Awesome job! I don’t usually make comments but I just wanted to say that this was a exiting video to watch especially with the different parts and it felt like a documentary narration in some kind of way. Please make more videos of this kind. Maybe with the more mainstream products as well! All the best, greetings from Sweden!
Loved this format, with more people from the Studio as hosts, all of you speak very well, and the video itself is great: quality, script, subject. All of it!
My question is what headphones were used? The benefit of a walkman is the ability to use more powerful headphones. if you're using normal bluetooth or normal wired headsets below $150-300 the difference would be noticeable but not crazy. However with better headphones $800+ it makes a world of difference. at-least thats my understanding.
I actually own one of these, and the difference in sound quality is clear compared to even my Xperia Pro-i. While most people probably wouldn't care enough or listen intently enough to notice the differences, they can be heard and felt. Every day since owning this thing, I've come across at least a few songs where I'm like "wow, I never heard that before." Not all my music is high-res, but I do have a good portion. Anything new I buy I will pretty much only buy in high res. However, there are subtle improvements on even CD quality tracks that are noticeable with DSEE HX enabled. Particularly, there is a little more depth and the highs don't sound as crunched. On really poor quality tracks that date before iTunes and whatnot, you definitely can hear a much larger difference with DSEE enabled. Where as without it, you really don't want to listen to it. It makes those tracks sound listenable. I really only use streaming services when I'm trying to discover new music to buy, or if I must hear a specific song I don't own. I love the hardware buttons because it allows me to not have to look at the device to change songs once you get used to the button placement. Some people have said that the new Walkman is not super loud, especially on harder to run headphones. This is because a regulation was put in place, and the EU and North American versions have to follow a law which limits the amount of volume they can put out. This did not effect older Walkmans, and also if you buy the Asian version this can be avoided. I have no problem with the volume output of this device in most cases. All that being said, I think the review was relatively fair. The Android interface is way slower than my Xperia, but I really don't mind. Once I have found what I am listening to I don't need it to be fast. I refuse to download any social media on this device too so that it stays focused to music. I did download almost every streaming platform on there from Qobuz to Apple Music to Amazon Music. It's nice because I don't need to have those installed on my phone now, though I will keep a couple. The Walkman music interface is quite nice for searching and finding the songs. It shows you the file type and all that. You can even sort from songs based on quality, to an extent. So it can auto-separate high res, CD quality, and then compressed. The explanation of high-res was pretty good indeed. You can also still have access to cloud services which is really nice, like OneDrive or Google Drive. This way you can add songs from the cloud if you want. I have a 500 gig SD card in this thing so I have plenty of space. For more files it's about halfway full with music though, nothing other than apps on the internal storage. Its primary purpose isn't for games or Instagram or sending texts and multitasking. It's a device built basically for listening to music in a very intentional way. So while it's not the fastest device there isn't really a need for it to be as it is fast enough for intended uses. I think what a lot of tech reviews get wrong is that a great device doesn't have to be one that everyone has to need. You can still love a product for its intended uses while also agreeing that many might not feel they need a device like this.
Fellow Pro-I user here 👋🏼 What Walkman do you own? I recently bought sony mdr z1r headphones so I am looking to get a walkman myself. Any recommendations?
I totally agree with what you've said here. I have the Sony NW A306 and it sounds better than any other device I have ever used. It's because it has high quality components that an iPhone can only dream about. I really don't understand why these reviewers couldn't tell the difference.
When complaining about the running Android 12 they came in spitting distance of the reason but missed. DAPs like this do run customized android builds, but rather than being “heavily skinned” the customization is to the audio system. Compared to phones it may seem old, but in this product category Android 12 is pretty much just starting to show up on new device models. I’ve seen several comments holding up Fiio as a more deserving competitor for review, but their newest DAPs are *still* on Android 10.
Great video. I'm an electronics engineer, and your explanation of the sampling and quantization process is awesome. You made the point without any jargon - that's cool!
To tell you the truth apple is lacking in sound quality I have a iPad and when I steam music to my paradigms they sound dull and lifeless, when I use my S22 ultra to stream their is no comparison, the ultra wins flat out. You guys sound like amachures what receiver or speakers did you use, none? The you should sit down and shut up.
I REALLY liked this video more than most stuff I’ve seen on the studio channel. I liked that it bounced around to different studio members who gave opinions on the device, did a little explainer bout codecs and whatnot. It was really great. Would love to see more things like this
This is a dope video, my only nitpick personally would be that I feel like your graph representing the nitrate and quality should have changed to show additional levels and intervals instead of showing the same graph and talking about what could be different. However as an editor and animator that definitely isn’t the easiest animation in the world so I get why it wasn’t done.
I definitely believe that with devices like this, you can notice a difference after a long time of use. Let’s say you were to use only this device to listen to music throughout your day- in the car, with headphones on, etc. -for a month. Then you switch to using your phone for the same thing. I feel like people who are pretty discerning will be able to FEEL a difference more than they can truly hear it. It’s kind of like going from a 90hz screen to a 120hz. Let a regular person alternate between both for a while, and I’m sure they’ll notice a difference. They won’t really know why, but they’ll probably prefer the 120hz because it just “feels” different, instead of “looks” different
I just upgraded from using airpod pros to the Focal Bathys. There is a very noticeable difference between having it plugged into my laptop vs iphone. The depth, clarity, is mind blowing coming from the laptop, i notice details in music ive grown up with that i had not noticed previously. Im going to get a DAP just to replicate that quality portably. To me it was more like going from 30fps to 60fps. I just got the headphones a few days ago
Bud i hate to tell ya, the difference in audio playback was definitley stunted by the speakers and headphones your using, its not worthwhile if the tech your sending the files to doesnt have the ability to reproduce sound at the same level. Gotta send it to analogue amp and some high quality speakers
Subjective take , as an audiophile I can swing by both ways using Apple Music + AirPods Pro gen 2 or a DAP and my IEMs. Yes AirPods Pro gen 2 with Apple Music is solid as Bluetooth is getting good but with IEMs , you are plugging straight to the 4.4mm uninterrupted analog signal and my IEMs are harder to drive anyways . Phone and apple dongles are fine but the 4.4mm balanced makes my IEM sound more tight and spacious .
I got a Sony Nwa55 Walkman just before they were discontinued as I didn’t want the bad android or battery experience. It does last better and doesn’t feel outdated as it’s not comparable to a phone OS. Definitely does have better sound when using a cable to my XM4s - but I find myself mostly still using AirPods and my phone. “Novelty for a few hours” is a great way to sum it up. Great video guys.
Damn I just learned a lot about audio than I ever knew (especially the sound curve replication that Ellis explained). Just after I got my new Nothing Ear (2). Time to look for audio codecs in the developer settings. Thanks guys.
reason why daps like these don't get current software is because with new software you'd have to also run them on new hardware... the name of the game is noise, and new hardware injects a lot of noise in the signal path... whether you can hear the difference boils down to experience and how resolving your transducers are... the tests you guys conducted really only implies that they couldn't tell the difference within a short time frame
Great point! This chip is very old though, and there are definitely newer, better chips that have low noise floors worked out. We didn’t show much of the tests, but each person listened to 8 different songs across 45 min to an hour, we just didn’t show the whole test to keep the video time shorter. I’ll make sure to go into greater detail about the nature of the test next time we do it!
@@ellisrovin oh I'm talking about over a period of time, not within hours but days. I know when I listen to my gear i need at least a day or two to acclimate myself whenever I switch to a different headphone. We are so sensitive to these changes but you need time to build it in to your "auditory muscle memory." And once you gain more experience and try different stuff the time it takes for you to hear those differences are much shorter IME. Additionally, you eliminate a lot of the variables like mood, state of mind, ambient noise levels, and what not. But I'm sure this wasn't that kind of video so the context will be much different. At the end of the day most people are fine with "good enough" anyway and won't care about a true hifi experience, and there's nothing wrong with that. A little sad tho...
This video was great, well done everyone involved! I hadn't heard about this product and as a person who loves listening to music I was curious about it, but the price tag immediately put me off and then the negatives just kept on piling up. Really appreciated the in-depth analysis and break-down of the features. Would love to watch more of this type of video!
Favorite Studio video so far! I love the loose relaxed structure and the various personalities here at the studio channel. Definitely an A+ in my book!
I really enjoyed Ellis's breakdown. From the Podcast it seems like he always has silly interjections, but I appreciated his knowledge, explanations, and opinions.
Great job on this one! I've always wondered about these insane products and it answered a ton of questions that I had. This reminded me of those "monster speaker wire vs coat hanger" tests that revealed zero difference between the two. Seems like the audiophile market is full of grifts.
The honesty of this review is refreshing. Even has an audio nerd and hi-res streamer, I can't make a case for this over any modern smartphone and one of the many amazing, super-portable USB/Lightning DACs that are cheaper, smaller, and offer the same (or better) audio firepower and format compatibility.
Wow, super educational, very in-depth explanations, giving the spotlight to many other Studio members is very cool! I love this channel and what it accomplishes.
The format of this video was awesome!! Very fun! It was nice to see Miles as well. As for the device... I feel it's so close to being good, by virtue of being unique, but the amount of things that they did wrong blow my mind. I really feel it could be a gadget that few people buy but love and defend greatly. Kinda like Canoopsy using a classic Walkman and the novelty of it being cool. I dunno... I am most impressed by the terrible battery life given how chunky it is haha
This Walkman section is, in my opinion, is for classified ur class in social. Clearly people are wealthy or audiofile could be its customer targeted. It's not an Android device, Android just as it surfaces to interact with or for control function only purpose. The rest is internal, its hardware which is expensive, precision made and unique audio technology from Sony. Like u having an vinyl player in ur house, which could be boring and old in terms of common customers. But in the eyes of audiofile expertise or wealth people who are asking for unique products, who perhaps dont want something could distract while working, this device is for them.
These sort of reviews are so informative as it illustrates differences in perspectives across generations and audiences. Due to social media and companies using 'influencers', we see more reviews for specialty devices performed by those who are not deeply immersed in high-end audio. Not a criticism as everyone has an area of specialization. Many of us who have memories of the Sony Walkman are probably reflecting on a more common and general purpose version of the device. As you have illustrated, this level of Walkman is an audio DAC targeted to audiophiles and not meant to be a replacement for a mobile phone for music consumption. For comparison, check out the Moon Audio review of the Sony NW-ZX707 Walkman to see how a company that reviews and specializes in high-end audio evaluates the same product. Thanks for bringing in the additional perspective.
as an audiophile, lemme fill yall in. Sony has had several high end, top notch audiophile level players over the past 20 years, which we call DAPs (Digital audio players). The predecessor to this was made two years ago, which is the 507 model. Also, you should have chosen its bigger brothers to review (the WM1A and the WM1Z) which both are infinitely better than this player. Btw, there are about 7 units in Sony's audiophile line that are below and above this unit in the line. Also I agree that for the money this should be of better feature set and quality...usually their DAPs are way better than this, even by audiophile standards. For the longest, Sony used its own OS, but since so many audiophiles stream hi-res content , going Android was the better choice. Also, we like DAPs because phones are distraction laden...and if you have IEMs and high end cans, they are infinitely better than AirPods and bluetooth. A real audiophile knows better than the one dude who claims he is one, and this is from someone who uses bluetooth too...a real audiophile knows the other Sony Daps are better than this one.
It's too bad these guys didn't test the WM1A m2 or WM1Z m2 because those bad boys in balanced mode are really where you can hear the sound difference with a good pair of headphones. The last generation had a terrible proprietary Sony charging/data port but it didn't use Android which made it solely for music, where the wm1a and 1z really shined. The 707 aint that guy
Got my Sony 8GB from 2008 and still rocks - I'm a DJ/music producer and I listen to mixes @ 320 kbps all Logic checked and levelled through Platinum Notes.
Everything about this video hit, the depth and clarity of the explanations and the flow between all 3 of your segments of the video! You all contributed your own thoughts and they created an incredibly well rounded review, much love would love to see more of this audio trio 🙏🙏
I think one valid point is also that they are plenty of devices for fraction of sony walkman prices but with the same if not sometimes even better hifi audio experience.
I got to say I'm pretty disappointed with this video. I started with high hopes, but immediately got shot down by their lack of knowledge in what this device is supposed to be. Miles kept on saying this is not a normal Android device or a phone, but kept on comparing it to a freaking phone anyway? Who approved this script?
I mean U could get a £500 phones that's better as a phone than this, and also buy a very good portable dac for a few hundred and I would guess that the latter would give an overall better experience, for example So I would say that comparing with an AVG phone is fair
This is made for audiophiles, and not consumers. I just hope the Walkman doesn’t get bad press. They price it so high for a reason. You should compare it to other high end DAPs (digital audio players). Felt a little unfair. If you aren’t an audiophile, don’t review it. It’s like getting a tour of an art room when the other person doesn’t appreciate art.
This is a horrible dap. I don't know what you're comparing it to but this is overpriced garbage. If you want a good dap that's cheaper and better than what fiio, Sony and any other overhyped company is selling. Look at hiby and other smaller dap companies. Hiby is amazing for the software. Bit perfect output also with updates and android 12. The hardware is also way better. The battery and screen are bigger and better.
so the battery was drained when you used a hi res streaming option while playing files downloaded locally? why would you need streaming enhancements if the files are downloaded?
This trio killed it, I loved the contrast between each segment of how the Walkman performed from the actual phone experience with miles to the audiophile perspective with Ellis, it was really well done
Ikr
All I watch is BS craps here.
-DAP buyers dont care about those screens and Androids.
-DAP buyers dont buy the thing because of the Bluetooth because of those phone jacks.
-DAP buyers use the phone as a phone only
Okay Miles is a natural on camera, great explaining and good pace
I was so surprised by him too. Great job Miles.
Reminds me a lot of Mrwhosetheboss, just less British.
Hes from 9to5mac. Hes no rookie
As Darren stated. He was on 9to5 Mac and I believe left to do his own auto channel.
I didn't realize he worked with MKBHD.
Well for me he is the shrinking version of MKBHD 😂
Love how he present a product!!
Miles’ voice is mad soothing.
Was thinking the exact same thing
Dang!!! 🔥
MKBHD Beta
I want him to read to me before bed. So chill. I might build an AI model of his voice…
He looks like mine mkbhd
As a professional audio engineer I really hope there are more videos like this. Sound is often overlooked in a lot of tech products.
Often? Always.
I'm not convinced it was a good test though, as mentioned in my reaction to the video.
sadly this video hardly talks about anything then mainstream listening experience..
As engineer this is one of the dumbest videos I’ve ever seen, 0000 test with IEM’s etc
These reviews from the whole MKBHD team are great! Would love to see more
These group of people Marques has assembled are really amazing. It's kinda trippy seeing the studio sets but other people sitting there reviewing products, yet the video is still amazingly well produced.
About the Walkman itself, I saw a tweet pop off and people replied they're getting their first Walkman ever. Hope they get to see this video before making the purchase.
Get some sleep Ellis.
Using most popular music as test material for audiophile gear is like test driving a Ferrari in stop and go traffic. To really see what it can do, you need source material with less compression like classical or jazz, or other styles with more acoustic instruments. Popular music is dynamically compressed, which by nature, means that it will sound pretty similar regardless of the playback system.
Ellis' explanation of Hi-res Audio was beginner friendly and super educational. He's great!
Except that he didn't explain that the importance of it is not that great at all since 16/44.1 is already enough for our human ears. I mean that misalignment of the curve is because his example had 16 steps while 16 bit audio have 65536, with the last bit of misalignment is saved by dithering. So it's a very exaggerated example.
Also his blindtest is also very flawed, I mean he compared highres from that Sony with 256kbps AAC on an very old iPod, so the difference that they heard was the Sony vs iPod, not highres vs lowres.
Highres audio is just a label that companies slap on to try to sell more products, not for the consumers to get an actual audible difference.
@@gurratell7326 Sorry for the confusion, let me try and clear some of this up. The example wave was supposed to be at 4 bits (15 in decimal) and 23 Hertz, which due to the Nyquist Shannon theorem is an unusable sample rate, purely for simple educational purposes. You are correct about the dithering, although that comes more into play when resampling at different rates, not when playing a single file back natively.
As for the tests, each person listened to 8 pairs of recordings, each one testing different things. Test 1 was the iPod vs Walkman, tests 2-3 were low res files, one played natively off the hard drive vs upscaled in the Walkman’s DSEE engine. 4-6 were testing hi res tidal streams on the Walkman DAC vs the iPhone DAC, and test 8 was about DSD on high res audio. None of these were supposed to provide benchmarks, just to see how big a difference these things made to regular people. Hope this helped clear things up and thanks for watching!!
@@ellisrovin Yeah I mean it's a good way to show how it works :) But I just felt that you should have emphasized that the actual importance of high res. It has been discussed for quite many years now but with the general consensus being that it's very quite overrated (except when actually working with it).
About the dithering, it is (or at least should be) always applied when downsampling to eliminate any quantization errors. Dithering might also be done in the DAC depending on how the inner workings of it. But in the end the bit depth is all about noise floor, and the sample rate is about how high frequencies you can cover. This should also have been emphasized imo :)
As for the test. Again, since you in most tests compared with both different formats and different DACs I don't see how those tests is relevant for anything? If you are going to test lowres to highres then you should have EVERYTHING the same except for the formats themselves. So doing the test the way you did will just confuse the viewers of the importance of highres. I mean I agree with your conclusion about the Sony, but how you came to (or at least showed) those conclusions where a bit off imo :)
@@gurratell7326 I hear where you’re coming from. Only test 1 compared low res to high res on different devices, the other 7 only changed one factor and that was the device.
I think you’re quickly discovering what makes covering a device like the Walkman so difficult. There are a bunch of advantages to high res audio, a higher sample rate will let you raise your antialiasing filter which yes gives you more highs, but also will reduce phase and distortion (bc antialias filters have steep roll offs that induce phase and filter ring). In the same light, raising your bit rate will lower your noise floor, but it will also lower distortion AND give you higher resolution at multiple gains for samples quantized at a low level.
But also, who cares? I mean I care, I have a degree in audio engineering, but even I can accept these giant mathematical concepts reproduce themselves as minute sound adjustments. And I don’t want to make a math video. I mean, I do, but I don’t think the audience wants a math video hahahaha
I’ll definitely dive deeper into quantization, sampling, amps, dither, all of it in later videos. But the first cut of this video was 30 min and no one needs 15 min of me talking about sample rate 😭
@@ellisrovin Ah maybe I misunderstood what you wrote then, because I read everything as you did all your tests on the Walkman DAC vs the iPhone DAC, but I guess you meant as you did some tests on the Walkman and other on the iPhone?
Higher sample rate can give you more highs yeah, but 44.1khz already give high enough I'd say, especially since most adults don't hear over 16khz anyways, and stuff like phase distortion ain't audible at all anyways, so personally I wouldn't suggest anyone to bother with higher sample rates :)
Higher bit depth will give lower noise floor yes, but seeing that 16 bits 96dB+ will give you a dead quite speaker for most places in the world, I mean a _quite_ room is at 20dB, so you'd have to turn that speaker up to say 120dB to hear any noise, but then that noise is drowned in music anyways, so wouldn't worry about that either :)
That's my take on it anyways, and I appreciate yours! And also that we get some more audio nerd videos about it ^^
Btw, if you haven't seen it yet, look up Xiph's "D/A and A/D" demonstration here on UA-cam, quality stuff!
Miles was stunning! Wonderful presence and phenomenal voice! It’s a shame the classic Walkman brand isn’t getting the revival it deserves.
Great to see Miles working with the MKBHD team. Missed seeing him on 9to5. Please tell me this is not temporary. He is an absolute pleasure to listen to.
Ellis and Adam are both big leap in audio engineering for MKBHD channel.
Despite the device that was reviewed :) This was another excellent quality video. Adam is a pro from sound guys but so glad to see Miles and Ellis getting some air time. A truly amazing team you have assembled, Marques!
Miles is an amazing presenter and reviewer! I know the main MKBHD channel is mostly Marques, but I’d love to see more Miles over there. Seriously professional!
It would be great to compare the Walkman to something more similar, like one of the FiiO DAPs that are recognized in the audio enthusiast world. The conclusion that a DAP is not comparable to a smartphone, and that a DAP is not recommended for “regular” music listeners is not a far fetched one. But that is also not the target audience - someone looking to buy a dedicated audio streaming device for $500+ already knows that it does not compare to a smartphone. They want to know how does it fare with high impedance headphones, what DAC is used, what amp is used, how much power does the balanced output deliver… I like the way that the review was set up and how different facets were presented, but for me it missed the main talking points I would like to know about a DAP.
useless product review in term's of many aspects, and agreed with u bro.. not recommended this channel personally
This channel has become the one I get most excited about posting a "uploading..." tweet. Amazing content.
On of the best, well-produced, most technical and fun videos I've seen on the entire MKBHD family of channels.
Except that they were wrong in the end about the device. It is an exceptionally good music player that sounds much better than other devices.
Best tech video I’ve seen in a long time! Awesome job! I don’t usually make comments but I just wanted to say that this was a exiting video to watch especially with the different parts and it felt like a documentary narration in some kind of way. Please make more videos of this kind. Maybe with the more mainstream products as well! All the best, greetings from Sweden!
Love seeing more of the studio members on the channel 👌🏾
Loved this format, with more people from the Studio as hosts, all of you speak very well, and the video itself is great: quality, script, subject. All of it!
The Walkman is a DAP (Digital Audio Player) marketed towards a subgroup of audiophiles.
No idea why Sony doesn't use the Walkman idea and make it into a smartphone. A smartphone with a nice OLED display but with a lot of the walkman tech.
My question is what headphones were used?
The benefit of a walkman is the ability to use more powerful headphones. if you're using normal bluetooth or normal wired headsets below $150-300 the difference would be noticeable but not crazy. However with better headphones $800+ it makes a world of difference.
at-least thats my understanding.
I actually own one of these, and the difference in sound quality is clear compared to even my Xperia Pro-i. While most people probably wouldn't care enough or listen intently enough to notice the differences, they can be heard and felt. Every day since owning this thing, I've come across at least a few songs where I'm like "wow, I never heard that before."
Not all my music is high-res, but I do have a good portion. Anything new I buy I will pretty much only buy in high res. However, there are subtle improvements on even CD quality tracks that are noticeable with DSEE HX enabled. Particularly, there is a little more depth and the highs don't sound as crunched. On really poor quality tracks that date before iTunes and whatnot, you definitely can hear a much larger difference with DSEE enabled. Where as without it, you really don't want to listen to it. It makes those tracks sound listenable.
I really only use streaming services when I'm trying to discover new music to buy, or if I must hear a specific song I don't own. I love the hardware buttons because it allows me to not have to look at the device to change songs once you get used to the button placement.
Some people have said that the new Walkman is not super loud, especially on harder to run headphones. This is because a regulation was put in place, and the EU and North American versions have to follow a law which limits the amount of volume they can put out. This did not effect older Walkmans, and also if you buy the Asian version this can be avoided. I have no problem with the volume output of this device in most cases.
All that being said, I think the review was relatively fair. The Android interface is way slower than my Xperia, but I really don't mind. Once I have found what I am listening to I don't need it to be fast. I refuse to download any social media on this device too so that it stays focused to music. I did download almost every streaming platform on there from Qobuz to Apple Music to Amazon Music. It's nice because I don't need to have those installed on my phone now, though I will keep a couple.
The Walkman music interface is quite nice for searching and finding the songs. It shows you the file type and all that. You can even sort from songs based on quality, to an extent. So it can auto-separate high res, CD quality, and then compressed. The explanation of high-res was pretty good indeed. You can also still have access to cloud services which is really nice, like OneDrive or Google Drive. This way you can add songs from the cloud if you want. I have a 500 gig SD card in this thing so I have plenty of space. For more files it's about halfway full with music though, nothing other than apps on the internal storage.
Its primary purpose isn't for games or Instagram or sending texts and multitasking. It's a device built basically for listening to music in a very intentional way. So while it's not the fastest device there isn't really a need for it to be as it is fast enough for intended uses.
I think what a lot of tech reviews get wrong is that a great device doesn't have to be one that everyone has to need. You can still love a product for its intended uses while also agreeing that many might not feel they need a device like this.
Fellow Pro-I user here 👋🏼 What Walkman do you own? I recently bought sony mdr z1r headphones so I am looking to get a walkman myself. Any recommendations?
I totally agree with what you've said here. I have the Sony NW A306 and it sounds better than any other device I have ever used. It's because it has high quality components that an iPhone can only dream about. I really don't understand why these reviewers couldn't tell the difference.
Miles! There you are! Congratulations on the new position. This studio team is so epic.
When complaining about the running Android 12 they came in spitting distance of the reason but missed. DAPs like this do run customized android builds, but rather than being “heavily skinned” the customization is to the audio system. Compared to phones it may seem old, but in this product category Android 12 is pretty much just starting to show up on new device models. I’ve seen several comments holding up Fiio as a more deserving competitor for review, but their newest DAPs are *still* on Android 10.
Just finished the video, the American idol bit at the end had me dead. Great job giving this video a unique identity and style!
Great video. I'm an electronics engineer, and your explanation of the sampling and quantization process is awesome. You made the point without any jargon - that's cool!
happy to see miles joining the channel! his work with 9to5mac was awesome
Okay THIS is my favorite Studio episode to date! Love this review format
To tell you the truth apple is lacking in sound quality I have a iPad and when I steam music to my paradigms they sound dull and lifeless, when I use my S22 ultra to stream their is no comparison, the ultra wins flat out. You guys sound like amachures what receiver or speakers did you use, none? The you should sit down and shut up.
I REALLY liked this video more than most stuff I’ve seen on the studio channel. I liked that it bounced around to different studio members who gave opinions on the device, did a little explainer bout codecs and whatnot. It was really great. Would love to see more things like this
This is a dope video, my only nitpick personally would be that I feel like your graph representing the nitrate and quality should have changed to show additional levels and intervals instead of showing the same graph and talking about what could be different. However as an editor and animator that definitely isn’t the easiest animation in the world so I get why it wasn’t done.
Wow, MKBHD's looks have changed since I last watched him.
I definitely believe that with devices like this, you can notice a difference after a long time of use. Let’s say you were to use only this device to listen to music throughout your day- in the car, with headphones on, etc. -for a month. Then you switch to using your phone for the same thing. I feel like people who are pretty discerning will be able to FEEL a difference more than they can truly hear it.
It’s kind of like going from a 90hz screen to a 120hz. Let a regular person alternate between both for a while, and I’m sure they’ll notice a difference. They won’t really know why, but they’ll probably prefer the 120hz because it just “feels” different, instead of “looks” different
I just upgraded from using airpod pros to the Focal Bathys. There is a very noticeable difference between having it plugged into my laptop vs iphone.
The depth, clarity, is mind blowing coming from the laptop, i notice details in music ive grown up with that i had not noticed previously. Im going to get a DAP just to replicate that quality portably.
To me it was more like going from 30fps to 60fps. I just got the headphones a few days ago
Its better to get a portable DAC + headphone and listen to high res songs on apple music then to buy this walkman
This is the most in depth review I've seen for this device. Thank you for this video!
1:18 Miles was not mad, he was disappointed
Miles has such a presence on the camera, keep up the good work bro
Low key this trio needs their own series
Bud i hate to tell ya, the difference in audio playback was definitley stunted by the speakers and headphones your using, its not worthwhile if the tech your sending the files to doesnt have the ability to reproduce sound at the same level. Gotta send it to analogue amp and some high quality speakers
Love that Ellis is a Jacob Collier fan! Great video all around from the studio team
Subjective take , as an audiophile I can swing by both ways using Apple Music + AirPods Pro gen 2 or a DAP and my IEMs. Yes AirPods Pro gen 2 with Apple Music is solid as Bluetooth is getting good but with IEMs , you are plugging straight to the 4.4mm uninterrupted analog signal and my IEMs are harder to drive anyways . Phone and apple dongles are fine but the 4.4mm balanced makes my IEM sound more tight and spacious .
Every time i watched a video on miles’ channel all I could think of was how much he looked like marques.
I got a Sony Nwa55 Walkman just before they were discontinued as I didn’t want the bad android or battery experience. It does last better and doesn’t feel outdated as it’s not comparable to a phone OS. Definitely does have better sound when using a cable to my XM4s - but I find myself mostly still using AirPods and my phone. “Novelty for a few hours” is a great way to sum it up. Great video guys.
Wondered where Miles went. I'm glad he's back! Side note MQA is not a bluetooth codec it's a type of compression algorithm like FLAC or MP3.
More like mp3 than like flac ;)
@@aintkaran Codec is the language devices use to communicate over Bluetooth. Compression algorithm is what makes the file size small enough to stream.
@@AbteilungsleiterinBeiAntifaEV 😂
FLAC and MP3 also count as codecs, they're just not Bluetooth codecs
which magician at the Studio moved the track pad at 11:31
Damn I just learned a lot about audio than I ever knew (especially the sound curve replication that Ellis explained). Just after I got my new Nothing Ear (2). Time to look for audio codecs in the developer settings. Thanks guys.
0:04 Is that Marques' hidden brother Mucus ?
This was a really good video! Loved how everone got on camera and how surprisingly in depth this went
I had no knowledge of that developer animation's setting omfg. Definitely the most useful tip from this video
This is a fantastic video. Please make more in this style!
Great to see Miles working with you guys, looking forward to see him on more videos
Is Miles a new member of the MKBHD team? He's slaying!!
Love the dynamic between everyone. Glad to see the different ways each part was covered
reason why daps like these don't get current software is because with new software you'd have to also run them on new hardware...
the name of the game is noise, and new hardware injects a lot of noise in the signal path...
whether you can hear the difference boils down to experience and how resolving your transducers are...
the tests you guys conducted really only implies that they couldn't tell the difference within a short time frame
Great point! This chip is very old though, and there are definitely newer, better chips that have low noise floors worked out.
We didn’t show much of the tests, but each person listened to 8 different songs across 45 min to an hour, we just didn’t show the whole test to keep the video time shorter. I’ll make sure to go into greater detail about the nature of the test next time we do it!
@@ellisrovin oh I'm talking about over a period of time, not within hours but days. I know when I listen to my gear i need at least a day or two to acclimate myself whenever I switch to a different headphone. We are so sensitive to these changes but you need time to build it in to your "auditory muscle memory." And once you gain more experience and try different stuff the time it takes for you to hear those differences are much shorter IME. Additionally, you eliminate a lot of the variables like mood, state of mind, ambient noise levels, and what not. But I'm sure this wasn't that kind of video so the context will be much different. At the end of the day most people are fine with "good enough" anyway and won't care about a true hifi experience, and there's nothing wrong with that. A little sad tho...
Really appreciate these in depth and fun reviews from the Studio team! I’m here for em’!!
Adam absolutely nailed that VSauce transition. 😂
Subscribed ! Finally a channel talking seriously about audio and DAP , I did just bought a ZX300 and will soon invest in an ZX507
Ellis killed it 🔥 Looking forward to more detailed audio reviews in the future.
FINALLY!! I can finally re-subscribe to the Marques network again. took you long enough
Think Miles should do more reviews, he sounds awesome
This video was great, well done everyone involved! I hadn't heard about this product and as a person who loves listening to music I was curious about it, but the price tag immediately put me off and then the negatives just kept on piling up. Really appreciated the in-depth analysis and break-down of the features. Would love to watch more of this type of video!
Favorite Studio video so far! I love the loose relaxed structure and the various personalities here at the studio channel. Definitely an A+ in my book!
I really enjoyed Ellis's breakdown. From the Podcast it seems like he always has silly interjections, but I appreciated his knowledge, explanations, and opinions.
Ya’ll hired Miles?? Amazing I love that guy. Hyped to see him more!
He's around for a while but behind the scenes.
Hired from where? Was he in another video before?
@@techboy95 used to be with 9to5 Mac I believe?
This review was a lot of fun. Time well spent!
Great job on this one! I've always wondered about these insane products and it answered a ton of questions that I had.
This reminded me of those "monster speaker wire vs coat hanger" tests that revealed zero difference between the two. Seems like the audiophile market is full of grifts.
The honesty of this review is refreshing. Even has an audio nerd and hi-res streamer, I can't make a case for this over any modern smartphone and one of the many amazing, super-portable USB/Lightning DACs that are cheaper, smaller, and offer the same (or better) audio firepower and format compatibility.
Wow, super educational, very in-depth explanations, giving the spotlight to many other Studio members is very cool! I love this channel and what it accomplishes.
Absolutely amazing vid, good job guys!!!
The format of this video was awesome!! Very fun! It was nice to see Miles as well.
As for the device...
I feel it's so close to being good, by virtue of being unique, but the amount of things that they did wrong blow my mind. I really feel it could be a gadget that few people buy but love and defend greatly.
Kinda like Canoopsy using a classic Walkman and the novelty of it being cool.
I dunno... I am most impressed by the terrible battery life given how chunky it is haha
Miles should have his own "mkbhd" channel I really liked his approach.
This Walkman section is, in my opinion, is for classified ur class in social. Clearly people are wealthy or audiofile could be its customer targeted.
It's not an Android device, Android just as it surfaces to interact with or for control function only purpose.
The rest is internal, its hardware which is expensive, precision made and unique audio technology from Sony.
Like u having an vinyl player in ur house, which could be boring and old in terms of common customers. But in the eyes of audiofile expertise or wealth people who are asking for unique products, who perhaps dont want something could distract while working, this device is for them.
These sort of reviews are so informative as it illustrates differences in perspectives across generations and audiences. Due to social media and companies using 'influencers', we see more reviews for specialty devices performed by those who are not deeply immersed in high-end audio. Not a criticism as everyone has an area of specialization.
Many of us who have memories of the Sony Walkman are probably reflecting on a more common and general purpose version of the device. As you have illustrated, this level of Walkman is an audio DAC targeted to audiophiles and not meant to be a replacement for a mobile phone for music consumption.
For comparison, check out the Moon Audio review of the Sony NW-ZX707 Walkman to see how a company that reviews and specializes in high-end audio evaluates the same product. Thanks for bringing in the additional perspective.
Miles deserves a podcast post… amazing voice, tone and pace❤and tons of knowledge
I really wish I knew the reason behind that price .
Awesome video guys, I'm impressed! 🥳🙌
as an audiophile, lemme fill yall in. Sony has had several high end, top notch audiophile level players over the past 20 years, which we call DAPs (Digital audio players). The predecessor to this was made two years ago, which is the 507 model. Also, you should have chosen its bigger brothers to review (the WM1A and the WM1Z) which both are infinitely better than this player. Btw, there are about 7 units in Sony's audiophile line that are below and above this unit in the line. Also I agree that for the money this should be of better feature set and quality...usually their DAPs are way better than this, even by audiophile standards. For the longest, Sony used its own OS, but since so many audiophiles stream hi-res content , going Android was the better choice. Also, we like DAPs because phones are distraction laden...and if you have IEMs and high end cans, they are infinitely better than AirPods and bluetooth. A real audiophile knows better than the one dude who claims he is one, and this is from someone who uses bluetooth too...a real audiophile knows the other Sony Daps are better than this one.
We watching phone enthusiasts to review a DAP. All I see is a lot of BS craps here.
Glad to see the MKBHD family expanding
It's too bad these guys didn't test the WM1A m2 or WM1Z m2 because those bad boys in balanced mode are really where you can hear the sound difference with a good pair of headphones. The last generation had a terrible proprietary Sony charging/data port but it didn't use Android which made it solely for music, where the wm1a and 1z really shined.
The 707 aint that guy
im using ier m9, paring with those its like having bacon and eggs
@@leminhhai6008 I'm using IER-Z1R's. Pure bliss
@@AeroSatan you had any chance of pairing with Sony PHAs yet? I'm curious!!
@@leminhhai6008 PHA-3 is nice but I stopped using it because it lacks 4.4 mm balanced jack.
Got my Sony 8GB from 2008 and still rocks - I'm a DJ/music producer and I listen to mixes @ 320 kbps all Logic checked and levelled through Platinum Notes.
Everything about this video hit, the depth and clarity of the explanations and the flow between all 3 of your segments of the video! You all contributed your own thoughts and they created an incredibly well rounded review, much love would love to see more of this audio trio 🙏🙏
I think one valid point is also that they are plenty of devices for fraction of sony walkman prices but with the same if not sometimes even better hifi audio experience.
I got to say I'm pretty disappointed with this video. I started with high hopes, but immediately got shot down by their lack of knowledge in what this device is supposed to be. Miles kept on saying this is not a normal Android device or a phone, but kept on comparing it to a freaking phone anyway? Who approved this script?
I mean
U could get a £500 phones that's better as a phone than this, and also buy a very good portable dac for a few hundred and I would guess that the latter would give an overall better experience, for example
So I would say that comparing with an AVG phone is fair
Brilliant review and great outro!
Miles is MKBSD
Damn that’s fucked up 😂
Nice one 😂😂😂😂😂
Good video fellas
When the whole team can deliver everything perfectly. Damn this team is a beast. Kudos MKBHD for getting them together ❤❤
I love the distinct aesthetic of the studio channel. It's noticeably different from the main one.
Have you ever seen Miles and Marques in the same room? I didn’t…
This might be the best video across all channels. The multiple perspectives is gripping
The guy on the left looks like twin brother of MKBHD 😂😂😂
This is made for audiophiles, and not consumers. I just hope the Walkman doesn’t get bad press. They price it so high for a reason. You should compare it to other high end DAPs (digital audio players). Felt a little unfair. If you aren’t an audiophile, don’t review it. It’s like getting a tour of an art room when the other person doesn’t appreciate art.
This is a horrible dap. I don't know what you're comparing it to but this is overpriced garbage. If you want a good dap that's cheaper and better than what fiio, Sony and any other overhyped company is selling. Look at hiby and other smaller dap companies. Hiby is amazing for the software. Bit perfect output also with updates and android 12. The hardware is also way better. The battery and screen are bigger and better.
@@Haydos That’s what I’m saying. I would have like a comparison. I don’t mind the opinions but it seems like they aren’t the target audience.
Marques looks different today... 😂
Great to see another brother in the MKBHD team.
so the battery was drained when you used a hi res streaming option while playing files downloaded locally? why would you need streaming enhancements if the files are downloaded?
So what's the alternative? Itouch? Apple SE 2 with air pods that fall out of my ear if I move?
Dang what a great video! You should share the playlist of music y'all listened to while testing
Loved this! So great seeing more to camera pieces form the studio crew, please do more!
I loved this video! Sure hope to get more audio related content in this channel and MKBHD
This video format was great! Thanks to the team for making it. Also, what was Sony thinking!?
What is the alternative for audiophiles who want high bit / high quality audio?
Amazing video guys. The Studio is rly shaping into one of mine favourite channels