He has said before that the more complex a track is, the more important the quality. He may not notice on a minimal electronic track but will definitely notice on anything with live instruments or vocals.
Placebo effect. CDJ-2000 DAC and analog out section is nearly identical to the CDJ-1000mk3, except that the Wolfson in the 2000mk1 has 96khz capability, which no one is using. It wasn't even until the later CDJ2000s that the SPDIF supported 24/96... but again, no one uses 24/96 files for DJing, anyway. He would have been better off proselyting, though, on the importance of using the SPDIFs on the players going into the ubiquitous DJMs than going on about 24/96 DACs or dissing the CDJ-1000. Or better yet, he should have been dissing the DJM DSP internals to get them to improve the mid-fi stuff in there. The biggest difference in sound between the Pioneers, Xone DBs, Ranes, and Denon digital mixers even using the analog outs on them is not even the DACs and analog output sections, but the sound of the DSPs. The CDJs are essentially bit-perfect at zero pitch using the SPDIF. I guess either of these (telling people to use the SPDIF ins or getting companies to focus more on the DSP in the middle of the mixer) would have conflicted with his business relationship with Formula Sound, though. I will not disagree that there is certainly something special about the mids and highs of the CDJ-1000mk3 or the CDJ-2000mk1 analog outs, even going into a top of the line analog DJ mixer. But that's not the only way to get great sound. He's not completely wrong that the DJMs' sound is a step down in some respects, but it's not the DACs on them and analog mixers are not the only way to resolve this -- actually it's very difficult to get the low-end on an analog mixer comparable to what you can from a digital one. Finally, let's point out that Funktion One now uses digital delays and digital crossovers... meaning you are better off using a digital mixer. Digital into the mixer, digital out from it into the processor. Even on his systems.
Because most people don't have high enough quality audio equipment. The days of big stacks of hifi equipment are gone. People are used to having all their music in their pocket. A few years ago I played mono 64k MP3s at gigs, and had people come up and complement me on the sound quality of my system!
Oh Dude Have a bit of Self Respect there is always a Gig where the system is in tune with your mix because maybe you spent little more time understanding the eqs of the tracks harmonics and avoided using hilly compressed youtube tracks. I buy from discogs and beat-port and i still dint fully trust all my beat port tracks. i have 3 sets of headphones when mixing, alot of the crap ive got from armin is crap lol
Hi, Mr. Tony, how are you? I'm Emerson Ferreira, I really need your opinion, since you're an authority when we talk about audio quality, and I'm just a humble guy who likes quality sound, even though I do not have much money for this, but it happens that I decided that the CD will be my definitive media, preferably CDs + obi Japanese SHM-CD, it happens that here in Brazil I can not find variety of CD PLAYER for sale, and besides, here in Brazil it is very expensive, so I thought about buying a CDJ just to listen to my CDs, do you think that's a good idea? Or even who knows a professional PALYER CD rack? You could help me, I respect your opinion very much. Many thanks Tony.
@DogBoots77 at low volumes im sure there wouldnt be any difference but when you are talking about the volumes that gear gets to the clarity really does start to suffer :(
Does not matter what audio format your using if the producer of the music cannot master and is using poor quality instruments or samples in dance music. I use 90's hardware to make music. It costs more but the sound quality will be guaranteed to be at a good standard. A good keyboard or rack mount synth will sound better than any vst plugins.
You gotta give it to him. In regards to moving into the right direction - why play anything that can't sound as close to a real instrument can - especially when you can do it from a device that gives you access to so much music at the touch of a button.
If the mixer is crap and the DACs are crap, well it's crap coming out. Digital does not excuse anything, especially if the analogue end is also bad as is the case with the Pioneer mixers. A) You run this with its internal DAC into a good analogue mixing desk, or B) You run it through an external DAC into an analogue mixing desk. There are no dj mixer on the market with better DACs built in. Best setup I've seen were these with Bryston DAC units going into a Formula mixer. The Bryston units are "cheap" for what you get. You need a seriously high end DAC to get better results.
Digital in and out bypasses the AD and DA conversions, so you're contradicting yourself. If you go from any media player or CD player digitally into a digital mixer, then out of the digital mixer digitally to the house DSP, then the processing done by the mixer is potentially less than the degradation in sound that occurs in analog mixers. I don't even think the DJM A/D and D/A conversion is that horrible when you're stuck with that. Maybe a touch crunchy and dark in comparison to the audiophile grade DN-X1700 (better output section than a CDJ2000, let alone a DJM800) or the utilitarian PPD9000 (bunch of TI and Alesis single-purpose chips), but in analog it easily stands up to the sound of most analog mixers with EQs. The Pioneers also have lower throughput DSP latency than the Denon... the delay of what you put in coming out, which is always there with digital compared to analog mixers. Running labhorns and requiring the tops to all be delayed to match the folded horn, though, the DSP latency is the least of your worries.
@Lectrosoul I would probably agree with this comment. I find it hard to know what I'm missing until I experience it. Like with my PA setup at home, it seems pretty good but if I added some subs or upgraded to F1 I'm sure I wonder how I ever put up with what I have now. Also @DogBoots77 good drugs help with focus on audio ;)
Even hearing these new CDJ's against vinyl at the Berghain you still find the vinyl is much fuller and bigger. CD still can get too hard even on their system.
Just because the vinyl is mastered more dynamic and the digital stuff gets mastered more dynamically compressed. Digital is way superior, it just gets abused. Vinyl is not as easy as he's claiming to get it to sound good, though.
AIFF and WAV are just file containers for raw samples and other (meta)data. They are very similar in layout (built out of chunks) and functionality so no, AIFF is not better than WAV. It's all about software that supports (standardized) features of the extra information in these file chunks like tags and markers. That makes some applications easier to use ('better') than others...
It' s funny to hear this conversation on sound quality on Pioneer channel.... a Factory that produce good cd player, but their mixer are very inferior to other big producers!
If you knew anything about the man you would know he has been damning in his criticism of previous pioneer products, he described the DJM 600 as utter crap (which it is) and was unimpressed with the CDJ 1000. He is sent these products for evaluation and tells it how he see's it.
Try watching Bush's first pre-recorded TV virtual debate thing (the one where they couldn't make it through the entire thing in a single take without having "technical errors"... which I think technically were in Bush's brain, not the camera equipment they tried to lie about) or his first state of the union where he steps back from the podium and puffs his cheeks out and looks around like "Holy shit, they bought it" or "Holy shit, I made it". W constantly looked like a POW in a forced confession
@thefishdog "A good keyboard or rack mount synth will sound better than any vst plugins" - I'm sorry but that is complete and utter bollocks. Tony Andrews quite rightly thinks lossy formats (mp3) shouldn't be used in public performances nor the home. His qualms are with the quality of audio storage mediums, not the source of the audio in the first place. A sine wave is a sine wave is a sine wave.
@DogBoots77 are you being serious?? anyone involved seriously with musicProduction/reproduction would hear the difference, if you cant well then i guess your ears are shot :(
Hat er sich kaufen lassen , schade schade! Dieser Pioneer plastikmüll von dem jedes halbe Jahr ne neue Serie rauskommt, ist für mich mit seinem Marketing echt nicht mehr ernst zu nehmen. Schade das es auch nur wenig hochwertiges Dj Equipment gibt.
I don't know if it's the spooky music but for some reason this video makes me feel physically scared of Arsène Wenger
I would love to see Tony submit to a blind test of 320 kbps MP3 vs WAVE....or just 256 kbps for that matter.
you think he wont notice?
He has said before that the more complex a track is, the more important the quality. He may not notice on a minimal electronic track but will definitely notice on anything with live instruments or vocals.
@@cunijoeme Yes, that is my guess.
@@cunijoeme ât 0 pitch he wont notice a diffrence between 320 and wave/flac
if he listen in a Bose speaker you will not notice, if he listen in his funktion one audio, the MP3 will even be not allowed to be played!!! :D
Placebo effect. CDJ-2000 DAC and analog out section is nearly identical to the CDJ-1000mk3, except that the Wolfson in the 2000mk1 has 96khz capability, which no one is using. It wasn't even until the later CDJ2000s that the SPDIF supported 24/96... but again, no one uses 24/96 files for DJing, anyway.
He would have been better off proselyting, though, on the importance of using the SPDIFs on the players going into the ubiquitous DJMs than going on about 24/96 DACs or dissing the CDJ-1000. Or better yet, he should have been dissing the DJM DSP internals to get them to improve the mid-fi stuff in there. The biggest difference in sound between the Pioneers, Xone DBs, Ranes, and Denon digital mixers even using the analog outs on them is not even the DACs and analog output sections, but the sound of the DSPs. The CDJs are essentially bit-perfect at zero pitch using the SPDIF. I guess either of these (telling people to use the SPDIF ins or getting companies to focus more on the DSP in the middle of the mixer) would have conflicted with his business relationship with Formula Sound, though.
I will not disagree that there is certainly something special about the mids and highs of the CDJ-1000mk3 or the CDJ-2000mk1 analog outs, even going into a top of the line analog DJ mixer. But that's not the only way to get great sound. He's not completely wrong that the DJMs' sound is a step down in some respects, but it's not the DACs on them and analog mixers are not the only way to resolve this -- actually it's very difficult to get the low-end on an analog mixer comparable to what you can from a digital one.
Finally, let's point out that Funktion One now uses digital delays and digital crossovers... meaning you are better off using a digital mixer. Digital into the mixer, digital out from it into the processor. Even on his systems.
Tony is a great person. And I'd recommend all the DJs, promoters, Club Owners to listen his words!!!
Really
Your the man tony !
sounds good
Looks like a hostage video, the way he keeps looking up above the camera.
Class!
Because most people don't have high enough quality audio equipment.
The days of big stacks of hifi equipment are gone.
People are used to having all their music in their pocket.
A few years ago I played mono 64k MP3s at gigs, and had people come up and complement me on the sound quality of my system!
Oh Dude Have a bit of Self Respect there is always a Gig where the system is in tune with your mix because maybe you spent little more time understanding the eqs of the tracks harmonics and avoided using hilly compressed youtube tracks. I buy from discogs and beat-port and i still dint fully trust all my beat port tracks. i have 3 sets of headphones when mixing, alot of the crap ive got from armin is crap lol
great song in the background. anyone know what it is?
Hi, Mr. Tony, how are you? I'm Emerson Ferreira, I really need your opinion, since you're an authority when we talk about audio quality, and I'm just a humble guy who likes quality sound, even though I do not have much money for this, but it happens that I decided that the CD will be my definitive media, preferably CDs + obi Japanese SHM-CD, it happens that here in Brazil I can not find variety of CD PLAYER for sale, and besides, here in Brazil it is very expensive, so I thought about buying a CDJ just to listen to my CDs, do you think that's a good idea? Or even who knows a professional PALYER CD rack? You could help me, I respect your opinion very much. Many thanks Tony.
@katankat instead of all this talk about hippies, what do you suggest and why?
@DogBoots77 at low volumes im sure there wouldnt be any difference but when you are talking about the volumes that gear gets to the clarity really does start to suffer :(
Does not matter what audio format your using if the producer of the music cannot master and is using poor quality instruments or samples in dance music. I use 90's hardware to make music. It costs more but the sound quality will be guaranteed to be at a good standard. A good keyboard or rack mount synth will sound better than any vst plugins.
You gotta give it to him. In regards to moving into the right direction - why play anything that can't sound as close to a real instrument can - especially when you can do it from a device that gives you access to so much music at the touch of a button.
@katankat yeah that's why he makes the best speakers in the world
Though with the SPDIF outs there's less significant difference going into a digital mixer.
If the mixer is crap and the DACs are crap, well it's crap coming out. Digital does not excuse anything, especially if the analogue end is also bad as is the case with the Pioneer mixers. A) You run this with its internal DAC into a good analogue mixing desk, or B) You run it through an external DAC into an analogue mixing desk. There are no dj mixer on the market with better DACs built in. Best setup I've seen were these with Bryston DAC units going into a Formula mixer. The Bryston units are "cheap" for what you get. You need a seriously high end DAC to get better results.
Digital in and out bypasses the AD and DA conversions, so you're contradicting yourself. If you go from any media player or CD player digitally into a digital mixer, then out of the digital mixer digitally to the house DSP, then the processing done by the mixer is potentially less than the degradation in sound that occurs in analog mixers. I don't even think the DJM A/D and D/A conversion is that horrible when you're stuck with that. Maybe a touch crunchy and dark in comparison to the audiophile grade DN-X1700 (better output section than a CDJ2000, let alone a DJM800) or the utilitarian PPD9000 (bunch of TI and Alesis single-purpose chips), but in analog it easily stands up to the sound of most analog mixers with EQs. The Pioneers also have lower throughput DSP latency than the Denon... the delay of what you put in coming out, which is always there with digital compared to analog mixers. Running labhorns and requiring the tops to all be delayed to match the folded horn, though, the DSP latency is the least of your worries.
@Lectrosoul I would probably agree with this comment. I find it hard to know what I'm missing until I experience it. Like with my PA setup at home, it seems pretty good but if I added some subs or upgraded to F1 I'm sure I wonder how I ever put up with what I have now.
Also @DogBoots77 good drugs help with focus on audio ;)
Even hearing these new CDJ's against vinyl at the Berghain you still find the vinyl is much fuller and bigger. CD still can get too hard even on their system.
Just because the vinyl is mastered more dynamic and the digital stuff gets mastered more dynamically compressed. Digital is way superior, it just gets abused. Vinyl is not as easy as he's claiming to get it to sound good, though.
This dude is really high
He's like that all the time. Great guy.
@garyalsop1976 try digital tunes.. their prices for wav/mp3/flac are all the same price
AIFF and WAV are just file containers for raw samples and other (meta)data. They are very similar in layout (built out of chunks) and functionality so no, AIFF is not better than WAV. It's all about software that supports (standardized) features of the extra information in these file chunks like tags and markers. That makes some applications easier to use ('better') than others...
AIFF and FLAC is better than WAV, since they allow universal tagging. Thankfully, the new Pioneer, Denon, and Gemini players do AIFF.
i had that too when i was 8 years old... 8)
And it costs as much as a computer, a good interface, and a controller.
And? If you're dj'ing, you don't need a computer, you need these are tables.
It' s funny to hear this conversation on sound quality on Pioneer channel.... a Factory that produce good cd player, but their mixer are very inferior to other big producers!
If you knew anything about the man you would know he has been damning in his criticism of previous pioneer products, he described the DJM 600 as utter crap (which it is) and was unimpressed with the CDJ 1000. He is sent these products for evaluation and tells it how he see's it.
yeah, if he wouldn't been reading what pioneer told him to say.
What? He's not reading anything, He's not trying to please Pioneer. He's been on their case ever since they did the first CDJ500(Yes, I'm that old).
Try watching Bush's first pre-recorded TV virtual debate thing (the one where they couldn't make it through the entire thing in a single take without having "technical errors"... which I think technically were in Bush's brain, not the camera equipment they tried to lie about) or his first state of the union where he steps back from the podium and puffs his cheeks out and looks around like "Holy shit, they bought it" or "Holy shit, I made it". W constantly looked like a POW in a forced confession
LORD OF THE AUDIOPHILES!
@thefishdog "A good keyboard or rack mount synth will sound better than any vst plugins" - I'm sorry but that is complete and utter bollocks. Tony Andrews quite rightly thinks lossy formats (mp3) shouldn't be used in public performances nor the home. His qualms are with the quality of audio storage mediums, not the source of the audio in the first place. A sine wave is a sine wave is a sine wave.
@DogBoots77
are you being serious?? anyone involved seriously with musicProduction/reproduction would hear the difference, if you cant well then i guess your ears are shot :(
Holy shit there's a hairy snake on his shoulder.
totally, funktion one are a big company but comared to pioneer they are dwafs
i'll say. wav's are expensive.
Hat er sich kaufen lassen , schade schade! Dieser Pioneer plastikmüll von dem jedes halbe Jahr ne neue Serie rauskommt, ist für mich mit seinem Marketing echt nicht mehr ernst zu nehmen. Schade das es auch nur wenig hochwertiges Dj Equipment gibt.