Ten kobolds inspired newly teen me to realize this encounter needed to be thought out and not fought out, an ideal I keep in my encounter design today.
It's a real hard lesson for new players literally wet behind the ears, but once you learn it... I remember a small game convention I was running 3e. The battle was meant to be tough, but some bad die rolls and worse tactics tilted the odds towards TPK. After round 5 or so of 'this isn't fun anymore', I calmly put down my shield, looked everyone in the eye until the chatter died, then softly said, "Run." Then I lifted my screen and got to DM my first fighting withdrawal. The convention mod was dead. The game lived.
I think there's another element beyond the rules and their accessibility. Older editions, especially BECMI for me, were about discovery and shared exploration of the game. The story, if there was such a thing, was emergent and what we talked about after the game in the form of encounters and what happened in the game to our characters. The issue with 5e is that everything has to be so goddamn epic. The PCs are effectively superheroes and the DM has to create huge incredible plots and quests for their adventures rather than rely on the fun coming from the interaction of players with the game. The modern game is far too heavily plotted and the DM has more in common with a script writer, director, producer and a load of actors rather than older ways of playing where the DM was more of the referee of the game and relied on the story to emerge from the game itself and very loose elements/information. That 'shift' is massively intimidating for a newbie and tiring for even an experienced DM.
I have to agree. Another thing were that some of the early modules like Keep on the Borderlands, Expidition into the Unknown, and Palace of the Silver Princess were eith lke a sandbox, where a DM would have to come up with adventures, or the modules thenselves encouraged the DM to fill out the encounters as he or she saw fit and make the adventure their own.
Yes, one thing I noticed especially starting at 3e, was the rules also became a game in itself. Players would make feat combos, multi-classing, etc. in complex ways hoping to 'win' and there would be a fight with DMs over not allowing splat books, certain combos, blaming them for putting in monsters which couldn't be affected by your specific build, etc. Basic, and even 1e didn't have that.
Great video! BX also uses the phrasing “be fair” and I agree this is key especially when the target audience is young “fair” is something we all understand and sits outside any particular rule.
Good video, mate 🤘 BECMI is the one game, that I have found anyway, that did this right. What better way to dip your toes into roleplaying, than having a short solo adventure to wet your appetite, and then a great "how to run adventure" first game tutorial, with the added bonus of "you create the final level, using what you have learned", introducing the dm not only how to run a game, but create an adventure. Still my favorite edition of D&D. I just want to add a small thing. A lot of people are shouting profanities and putting down D&D, in light of recent developments. It's not D&D that's the problem. The people that created D&D actually care/cared about the game. The problem is the current rights holders. wizards of the coast and their owner, Hasbro. Hopefully, one day, D&D will have good designers on it again, people who care. More hopefully, it will not be in the grasp of Hasbro or wotc if/when that happens.
Right on. Corporate-minded MBA types have no business running a gaming company because they may be geniuses at running standard businesses, but niche industries, like gaming, require people who understand the products, the market, and the consumers. That's how monstrosities like Games Workshop have stayed in business for decades. Corporate types, back to Lorraine Williams who ran TSR into the ground in the 90s, don't grasp what their product is and since they don't understand they just try to force it to be like products they do understand. Williams was dismissive of and denigrating to gamers and just viewed TSR as a company where morons would shovel money at her so long as anything AD&D/BECMI got offered to them. Quality declined, more expensive rulebooks/fluff books were put out, and the market for new crap died out. And here we have WOTC doing that same thing all over again, amusingly under another female non-gamer CEO named Williams. Unintentionally ironic.
Hands down, the two best versions of D&D were the Moldvay/Cook and what we now call "BECMI." I'm a bit biased perhaps in my feelings on this but it was the way they were written and HOW they were written that made them what they are....As you perfectly illustrated in your video these things were teaching guides as well as instruction manuals. To this day they still are used as the basic framework for which I design and run my "Basic Fantasy RPG" games. This is an excellent video! Keep up the awesome work!
Wow, I never realized how good the Mentzer basic set is. I have the original moldvay b/x, the companion and master set, along with the rules cyclopedia, so I never looked into it. Very informative, thank you!
I think the ten kobolds are a great idea because they're a wall. They encourage the players to run away, to think up a new approach, to act outside of the box. They introduce the idea that the world can't always be defeated with strength of arm, and balance isn't the top priority. I don't know if new players would think to take a hostage if the odds weren't so totally against them.
I really like this. My brother and I got started on First Quest and the D&D classic black box. I think First Quest did alright in the same vein as the classic red box, but that may just be my nostalgia talking
It was a very different time. There were 5 of us when we started: a 12, 10, 10, 8, 8. The 12 year old preferred to play and paint miniatures. He became an aerospace engineer. I was 10 and the other 10 year old taught me how to play. He became the lead quest designer for the worlds most popular MMO. We took turns DM'ing for our younger siblings and the older kid. There wasn't a huge 3pp market and you had to create your own stuff if you wanted to play regularly. There just wasn't enough printed material to go around. We also drew our own comic books, and created our own (rudimentary) games. Our generation was DIY. Some of us created fanzines, others started their own rock bands and put out records in the early 90s. It was different then. Not "better" like some sort of value judgement, but different. If you wanted more of a thing, you had to make it yourself. The grown up releases were HUGE events, but they were few and far between. Today, there is an overabundance of content -- of all kinds. The impetus to create still exists, of course, but it isn't such a needful thing. Sure, someone can choose to DM, but -- lacking the intrinsic *need* to create in order to satisfy the content drought -- it is often easier to just be a player. Often, at the the console or computer, or on the phone. In my opinion, this is the primary reason there are so few Dungeon Masters. It's too easy to not be one, for better or worse.
This articulates so well what I try to tell people about the game at that time. So many creators have cited early D&D as their inspiration for their work, but I honestly believe that it wouldn’t be so if D&D was as it is today. There’s not enough of a vacuum to fill.
I started with BECMI as a middle-schooler, had the first three sets, and played that for a few years before briefly going to 1E, then spending most of my time with 2E. I came back after a long break when 5E came out, so I could introduce my kids to it. I still use my original dice today in our game group. Thanks for the review! I'm trying to get our group to try the older editions for fun.
One of the few things that 5E did right was the starter sets and the Essentials kit. In a parallel universe there was an Companion kit, an Elaborations kit, and possibly even a Master kit, giving 5E a proper treatment to train Players and DMs. Sadly none of that happened. We just got one more Starter set (or maybe two, who keeps track?) and nothing to tell DMs how or when to CREATE which is apparently an old school philosophy that was never nurtured in 5E. That's the reason, I feel, that 5E lacks dungeon masters. The supplementary modules actively hinder creation: their homogenous nature, along with the base's expectation that it's all mandatorily included and sacrosanct due to a bizarre perversion of the principle behind Rules As Written, hammers home the 5E dungeon master's place. He's not there to be fair. He's there to wait on the PCs like a server in a restaurant. The lack of effort and intelligence required to play 5E is one of it's greatest weaknesses on either side of the screen. All in the name of approachability. If I was being honest and snarky as is my custom, I'd say there are really very few actual players or dungeon masters at 5E tables. The default users of 5E are rulesbook enthusiasts and module facilitators. Real players or DMs prsent at 5E tables are there under duress. That's all.
Maybe the lack of DMs for 5e has to do with the fact that the rules want the players to never have to struggle, just manage their resource pools , and the game really doesn't remotely function without having 8 encounters every single day. All the classes are made for this '8 fight' dungeon crawl paradigm, and everyone's jobs are super pre-defined, meaning its really hard for DMs to give players unique situations to be in. A barbarian simply can NOT talk with people like a rogue can, and gears people towards just finding their job and hitting monsters. Old games had a lot of focus on your character being a person outside of the dungeon, it wasn't until 4e that this stopped. Not to mention, the rule books used to be a lot more down to Earth. I remember 3rd edition's DMG opens up with talking about how to have a conversation with your players to change the rules that you feel like need to be changed, any many splatbook classes have ways to adapt them to other kinds of games and settings, and what their intentions are. Even the Unearthed Arcana book said that the options provided will be stronger or weaker depeneding on the kind of game you are running, and you need to make necessary adjustments if that is the case. 4e and 5e are books of corporate approved methods to play their board game.
I frankly don't buy this take for a second. I've ran 5e since the Next playtest packets, this whole "8 encounter" paradigm is a straw man. The adventuring day is a guideline, not a hard and fast "you MUST use this number of combats per day" You want to kill PCs in 5e? Use higher CR monsters or lots of lower CRs. You want 5e to be grittier? Use 3d6 ability generation and roll for first level hit points. The barbarian chatting up someone and being as good at it as a rogue is a high CHA and Persuasion prof granted by a background + skill expert feat. Done. Frankly, the ruleset is flexible as fuck and all the bellyaching I hear from OSR types is just that: bellyaching. I run plenty of BECMI as well as modern editions of the game, these criticisms ring false to my ears.
I do agree as I find pcs with all their resources can take down massive threats so they need to be worn down , I have gone over to ruins of symbaroum a 5e dark fantasy setting with far less magic and power and deadly enemies where one encounter is terrifying thing and it's much better
@@punishedwhispers1218 the ratio hardly counts when the whole number of likes for the comment stream is under 20…and the channel is devoted to BECMI. 5e casuals aren’t here talking about it.
@@Agell you’re right; they’re wrong. More people are playing 5e than ever played BECMI. “ThE pLaYeRs aRe SuPeRhErOeS!!!” These guys realize they’re in control of their games, right? No one from WotC has ever kicked my door down to see if I’m following the rules. BTW I grew up on BECMI in the ‘80’s, and while the basic set was in many ways a great introduction to RPGs, the rules set just isn’t that good. I have fond memories of it, but it wasn’t some masterpiece of design.
Simpler is better. Especially in regards to learning something new. The red box as taught to me by my 5th Grade teacher at his after school D&D club, made learning really fun and interactive. We were young so he would drop hints on different ways to go about resolving an encounter using critical thinking and problem solving. I'm bringing this back in my current campaigns that I'm running. Noticing the group in their twenties are really struggling with this method. My veteran group, my age about 50, less so but still when it comes to puzzles, are less effective. My third group whose ages are 21, 22, 31, and 50 and new to the game are faring the best when it comes to thinking outside the box. They are also the only group I play live with and not remotely. (also all women if that makes a difference, that is for an analyst to decide). Anyhow, thanks for the nostalgia trip and looking forward to the other boxes set videos.
These days, I hear all sorts of stories about people originally getting into the hobby by learning AD&D from older friends and siblings. When I started, we didn't know anyone who played. For me, my friends and I got the red box without knowing anything about it. The teaching aspect of this really helped us kids get started, especially the tone and feel. If we got the AD&D books instead, I'm not sure we would have figured it out.
My start into D&D was the B/X Edition by Moldvay, Cook and Marsh, and to this day I'll defend Moldvay's Basic to the death. BUT, I have to hand it to the later BECMI versions for really easing newcomers into their roles as DM or player.
Mentzer is where I got my start in D&D - but had been playing a form of D&D for a few weeks before my birthday in 1983 - it was purchased to encourage socialisation as a teen - 52 now. It enculturated me into 'roleplaying' in general. Easy to recall and adapt to needs - many people have examples of if they wanted more meat they would borrow 'extra' rules from the AD&D books. Long time sub - love your videos. Love my POD Rules Cyclopedia so much right now.
What (for me) is not working on the 5e "starter sets" is that they are not "starter", but "demo" of the full game. There are no rules for generating new content: at the end of the adventure, you can not do more than to buy the core rulebooks. And there is also almost to zero information for DMs on how to run the game. Honestly, 5e is a great version of the D&D game, but still new DMs have to search everywhere for information on how to run the game. in 1980s, it just needed the red box (B/X or BECMI) to start playing, with no external help.
Demo, not starter, very well said. Ten year old son had fun DMing DoSI but was already familiar with 5E and wasn’t training new players. Once complete, no new character development or world building. Long live Basic and Expert boxed sets!
This is great stuff, brother. Your channel is inspiring. You unintentionally spark ideas in my mind about what’s possible in this game. Thanks so much. Think I’ll sub. 🔥
WHile all your points are valid, I think the larger issue is that the new players in their teens and 20s are used to having things handed to them AND from my experiance over the last several years in my FLGS, many of them have their first exposure to watching UA-cam and Twitch games that are being run by professional actors that are semi scripted. As a consequence, their expectations of what a GM is is NOT someone fubleing around with the rules and being a judge but someone like Matt Mercer and they feel that they lack the skill and never try.
The Basic set was the first roleplaying game I bought. Because there was no internet, I thought you needed to reach the immortal boxed set to finally be able to use the advanced d and books. I actually thought advanced meant, advanced play ounce you got past the levels of BECMI. Believe it or not, I had a small group of friends who played this game and we did not even know there was a way to play the game with race and class as two seperate things. I also spent a lot of time with GURPS and for Supers I played mayfairs DC heroes game. At that time, one of my favorite companies was Mayfair games, that company made a lot of solid books. Loosing the cleric in my first solo game took me by surprise.
The video is looking good Berserker, thank you for inside look and reminder of what best to do when trying to introduce a game to new players. Very useful for myself and my writing.
Everyone in the comments talking about how the kobolds forced people to be creative, but I remember as a kid we just advanced under cover of boulders and used sleep to kill them all. When my older siblings moved out and I was the oldest, I was annoyed that the description just said *about* ten kobolds and didn't say if it was actually ten or a different number lol
every DM needs to go thru these books once or twice. ive seen a few newer dm's who didnt understand the most important rules. there is a big difference being CHEAP DM and being a hardcore but fair DM. a lot will pick up the mechanics of an edition but never take time to understand the fundamental philosophies and concepts to be a Good DM, so some will say they throw a hardcore game but in reality are lazy and just throw bad encounters to kill off players or target players to feel a god complex. ussually the best ones of that style, wanna keep the players alive but want a hardcore game. so they set up a very well thought out encounters and are there to play out the encounter, not beat the players.
I never understood the parallel Adnd and DnD games until you now explained it. To me it was like 2 separate companies, in the same company, offering 2 separate - yet compatible games. It was very confusing. We thought the ADnD was the "all-in" ruleset, but now I see that the BECMI in total was a more mature and better system. It's too bad that I missed so much of the BECMI experience, I think I had much to learn from it. ADnD seemed to have all the bells and whistles, and we loved it, but I think we missed out on the lessons conveyed in these Basic Sets, especially and the settings and the Expert, Companion, Master and Immortal sets that really added on to the game in a way that ADnD never did. I regret not seeing it when it was right in front of me. Advanced was supposed to be Advanced - right? Thank you for this. I appreciate it.
You’re more than welcome, and you’re far from the only one to have been diverted this way. You’re likely aware of the reason for there being two different games (legal wranglings between Arneson and Gygax) and I sometimes wonder if BECMI was pushed into such innovative concepts because it had to compete with the word “Advanced”. Anyway, welcome to BECMI and thanks for commenting.
I feel compelled to comment on WOTC revealing that the warrior on the cover of the 1983 Red Box is, in fact, a woman, despite all appearances to the contrary and even the original artist Larry Elmore, pointing out the obvious fact that the warrior is a man. The oft cited response is “why do you care?” Let me explain why we care (and at the same time explain why I love this channel). The 1983 Red Box was how most Gen X TTRPG players were introduced to the genre. Everything about it was fascinating and it started with that great cover artwork. It drew you in and held your attention. For me nothing in the 25 cent arcade or in the Atari 2600 lineup held a candle to that. That’s why this channel is so awesome. It pays respect to a great game that entertained millions. So there is only two reasons you make such an odd retcon after 40 years. One possibility is the perception that there was not enough female representation in Dungeons and Dragons…well that’s simply not true. All the modules had female pre generated characters. Who could forget the awesome female magic user on the earlier Moldvoy cover? Heck, every 12 year old’s heart broke at the fate of Aleena who was an amazing female character straight out of the same red box set. So the only other possibility is WOTC sending a very clear message to older fans, and that message is “we don’t care about your lore, your memories, or that game, we own this IP and we can do whatever we want with it, and if you don’t like that, that is simply too bad.” That is why we care. At some point an intellectual property moves beyond the original designers and takes on a life of its own. When that happens the current stewards of that IP have a responsibility to not destroy the goodwill of the fanbase that got them here. WOTC did not make D&D into the beloved product that it is…they stand on the shoulders of giants and pretending those giants are no longer relevant by making not so subtle insults to what came before is supreme arrogance. You can have a modern product designed for modern sensitivities but don’t insult what came before in an effort to gain some unnecessary moral high ground. D&D was always inclusive, frankly before that was even a concept, and therefore retconning the old IP was completely unnecessary, and I can’t help but feel that it was meant to be a giant middle finger from WOTC to older players like me.
@@becmiberserker I got into D&D buying this book, except it was translated into norwegian and both player and DM's guide were coupeled together into one book. Still very manageble. Also, in the norwegian version we got two Dragon Magazine modules at the end. Was this not included in the original english version?
@@becmiberserker They were "The Trouble With Mylvin Wimbly" and "The Elven Home." I remember being puzzeled about how to run these. I was only 10 or 11 at the time and these were out door adventures! It was first when I got the expert book with "The Isle of Dread "in it a year or two later that I got my head around what they were supposed to be! (I had no DM's to teach me how to play)
The 1983 Basic Set is very comparable to D&D 5e's Starter Set, IMO. They both have step-by-step introductions to running the game that hold the GM's hand at first and slowly take the training wheels off by the midpoint. The starter set does use premade characters, and is designed to not be very deadly, but honestly I learned everything I needed to run 5e from the beginner box, to the point where I never actually read the PHB all the way through, only referenced it when making characters or casting spells. One thing that struck me as odd and frustrating in the Basic box set adventure is the Harpy room. it states that the doors can only be opened by characters of 2nd level or greater, but never gives a good explanation for why this is, and it doesn't do a very good job (IMO) of explaining how much treasure you should be placing around the second and third floors, which is something that caused me more than a little frustration and anxiety. I was expecting the first floor to be laden with enough treasure to get the players to 2nd level before having to go down to the second level, but the amount of treasure in the first floor is actually very limited.
An excellent video, if I had gotten that guide in front of me instead of the massive DMG (most of which you don’t need 95% of the time) I would not have taken so long to try and then enjoy being a DM. Honestly the creative part of the game is the best part. Randomly generating and discovering the map along with the players as you draw out the dungeon with random tables and what the players do is one of the better parts of playing in person. I appreciate the adventure modules for what they are but often the best games I’ve played and run are using that as a starting point and going in a different direction.
Looks somewhat like a pf2e starter kit. A DM guide with some general advice, a starter dungeon (not as hardcore tho) and a bestiary exceeding the starter dungeon. The player's book is for levels 1-3 with 4 classes and 4 races. Both books are about 80 pages long. My first reaction to this was like "okay so i have to buy a Core Rule Book on top of it, so what's the point". But after your video it kinda makes some sense.
I got my start with AD&D 2nd Edition, but got to play the red box for the first time somewhat early in my introduction to ttrpg. While our group largely sticks to 2e, I do still enjoy BECMI play as well, and prefer it over any newer editions. Fun vid
The Graphics (design, tables et al) are also the clearest on BECMI. That brownish background on 5e text makes me tired (not dissing the content), like some type of fatigue... BECMI is a visual feast all in b&w.
Honestly, I think the reason why we have a DM shortage is because TTRPG's are a niche hobby that got some mainstream interest. There are only so many people who are willing to read a book, whether it's 60 pages or 600 pages, just to play a game. Plus the amount of time and effort it can take to DM can be a bit too much for many people.
I think wrangling people into being a DM has always been a problem, at least as far back as 2e. And I say wrangling, because even back when I first started no one wanted to do it. It wasn't because of complexity or book size, it was due to the simple fact that everyone wanted to play. They had some exciting concept for a character, and no one wanted to give that up for the job and responsibility of being a glorified judge and not getting to play. That's why for the last 30 odd years I've ran probably 80% of the games, and that's been true as people have left and new people have entered the group. Its just not seen as fun or as rewarding as being able to progress your own character. I can't say I mind since DM'ing is an art form and I've spent quite alot of time working on it, It feels more fun and engaging than playing to me. But I don't think there are that many people out there who feel that way. The 2e DMG did so much to help and motivate me, and I credit it with teaching the right way to think about running. I think it has something to do with feeling like the game designers were talking directly to me and giving me advice, while modern books feel more sterile, less personal. In any case, you could do a whole video series on just DM philosophy and the types of people who gravitate towards being a DM. I don't doubt that 5e, and before that 3e and 2e book sizes scared some off. You're right to point out that introductory material does exist: I believe there was a free basic rules .pdf available through Wizards that taught everything you need to know to play a basic game and run an intro module. Which is surprisingly little, honestly. Much of the 5e handbook is taken up with spells, and much of the rest is optional rules. The core game itself is quite easy. But if you're trying to run it for the first time and you have it in your head that you need to learn all the rules at once, and no one's taken the time to explain that its not necessary, then I can see how people would struggle with information overload. However, it doesn't really take that much perseverance to get started. This is where the role of gaming shops and knowledgeable people on hand to run introductory games used to be helpful, but those stores are disappearing. The single best way to learn D&D is to learn from another person, and that's always been true. If there really is an increased DM shortage now, and I say "if" because I'm not at all convinced its worse than it used to be, then I would tend to blame people's short termism these days. We live in the world of the short attention span, where something has to be exciting all the time or people stop doing it. I'm not sure how a hobble like ours overcomes that. I think it would be a great time for a reissue of basic set, or a new revised version. I don't mean to offend when I say I always saw basic D&D as a stepping stone to AD&D, and I find it odd why that same dynamic doesn't exist anymore. One other little thing. If Wizards says there's a shortage, I'd look carefully at that statement, especially if you believe they're attempting to introduce AI into a new virtual tabletop. Its exactly the sort of rumor I'd love to put out if I wanted to drive people to buy my new shiny upcoming product.
Thanks for the comment. I too was suspicious of the lack of DMs rumour for the reasons you suggest. Your comment about learning DM-img from another person is interesting though. I’ve actually thought this was always D&D biggest weakness. I mean, you buy the books, get home , then… Sure, many people are able to pick it up, but too many have to see others do it first. That’s not ideal from a publisher’s perspective. It’s a barrier to the game, which I believe would have been lessened by better instructions in the vein of the Basic DM book. Oh well, we are where we are. I wonder if I can get my AI Dungeon Master with Helen Mirren’s voice…
Yeah, I did it the hard way, I'm a self taught DM. The old books were so full of examples of how to do it right, how to conduct yourself, how to be fair and what being fair even means. Its tough to run a game, any game that you've never seen before. These days you can watch endless examples of games on UA-cam but... I guess all I can say is you have to be careful who you watch. Being a DM ain't easy, but when you do it right and you get the "awesome game, can't wait for next week" responses, its just so worth it.
Ehh the 5e starter set and essentials kit does a lot that the basic set stuff in the smaller package. Though hats off to basic for handing off to the DM. As for "buying the rules twice" by that logic BECMI has you buy the rules like 5 times to get all the relevant content. So Not really a fair comparison. Basic still has plenty of great pluses over the starter set there's no need to be unfair in your analysis.
BECMI is more "buy the rules in four or five parts" instead of "buy twice, thrice, etc" With few exceptions, the sets involved things for their levels of play. e.g. The Basic set included rules and spells only low level casters could use, with a couple examples like fireball for a higher level caster NPC. The monsters were mostly lower tier (except for the dragons). Later sets merely included things for higher tier play. It was possible to get years of adventuring enjoyment from just the Basic set, and the inclusion of the Expert set would expand that time sufficiently that it wasn't a waste that it also included fireball and dispel magic.
They really are. My grip.learned from my Moldvay box. We learned in a vacuum, no mentor, not club environment, but the clear, concise and helpful prose made gamers of us, some of us lifelong.
As someone who played in the 80's and 90's with BECMI (still have all 5 box sets and 30+ modules and Gazetteers) but is mainly playing 5e now, I think the the 'simplicity' argument for BECMI is disingenuous. I think I owned the Basic set for a year having no idea how to play it (maybe I was 10ish) until a new kid came to my school and became my first DM. These days with UA-cam, you can watch many actual games being played so the "How to Play" is way less important and most people come to the game, will watch this sort of content which just wasn't available back in the 80's. Also, 5e has not one but 3 different Starter/Essentials sets now with pre-made or make your own custom characters with a set of dice and really good modules/campaign for like 12-20 bucks. So I can learn the game and play a module for levels1 up to 5? for less money than what the Basic set costed me back then. I think the 5e new play experience is significantly superior than previous versions IMO.
it saddens me that WotC is replacing DMs/GMs with an AI ... thanfully, i replaced their game with my own (self designed) after 4th edition and vowed never to spend a dime on any of their products (which every veteran knows are just knockouts from previous editions retrofitted to the current one, with meek exceptions like eberron and thats about it)
As for my main all in one editions of my which are made for people new/dislike TT games and those who are looking for something new I just have one big like 11 pages long tutorial that have you the reader watch a veteran group play the start to an session... and show in text the game in action maybe with picture/art in the release version. Which I think works for my game/audnce and me deving it better then parting itt up in different books/chapters. But still tis is really impressive and all the TTRPGs I have seen this is te best introduction to TTRPGs and I have been imsperered.
This is why I tell new DMs to start with a Starter or Essentials box for 5E. It sucks you have to buy the rules twice but WotC aren't the only ones doing that in 2023
Forget the monsters when they are Slain!, I have 40 acres of land here in West wales dedicated to the memorial of every single one with stone statuary I call it midian
Unfortunately WOTC content has been declining in quality. The starter sets are the opportunity for DM tutorial and apparently a book in the 1980's simply surpasses them in quality and effectiveness. The thing that makes DMing easier nowadays is content creators. UA-cam videos and such. My best advice is for DM prospects to try other systems such as dungeon world and index card rpg. They have a good GM section in their resources. But any RPG should start with a tutorial adventure like the Call of Cthulu starter set.
13.49. We are all doom2 dommages. 13=El hazard. dommages et intérêts.LA VIE N'EST PAS?pour les monstres à ADD.C'est pour cela que je ne joue qu'aux BASIC.1 rencontré peut facilement aboutir à une négociation.MAIS CA C'ETAIT AVANT LES JEUX-VIDEOS....
To be fair, in 5E you don't need to read (own!) the DMG, you only need the PHB - and the number of pages is similar to the ADnD versions (and 5e rules are based on ADnD and not BECMI). That said, yes, introduction to DMing was far better in BECMI, plus the paid for scenarios were smaller and easier to manage - although the square 'read this aloud' box is no longer favoured, at the time (when we had no other cognitive models to hang RPGs onto) they were invaluable. Its a shame the modules didn't evolve - the Master ones still have the same approach with boxes - at that point, they could've been doing something bigger and and better.
@@DemetrisAthanasopoulos 3.x philosophy is definitely far closer to the AD&D approach than it is BECMI, even though the d20 mechanics are different to AD&D. As for not reading the DMG as being the problem with 5e - I suggest thats an opinion for a different audience.
So that explains why D&D does not have a core rulebook but core books instead... As for me I'm managing to make an all in one rule book fit in just less then 200 pages and my max is 399 pages... And it's my first game ever and I had no TTRPG hands n expernce before hand just RPG shows and all of the video games... So WOTTC should be able to do what the basic set did in 2023 and being top dog... Butt then again they could not charge $60 for it... 3 times.
Ok, fair is fair. You can’t really criticize WOTC for creating a beginner box and then “making people buy the rules twice” with the rule books when your holy grail is FIVE box sets that make up a game.
@@SuperMagicNinjaBunny Ha! No it’s okay. I totally understand and I do actually have a mic coming tomorrow. If you could just ignore the sounds and somehow enjoy the content then that would be great. Thanks for commenting. It’s all good! 🙂
1983 BECMI《B》: WAS MADE for PLAYERS.EVERYTHING WAS MADE FOR GETTING THEM CONFORTABLE .ESPECIALLY AT THE TABLE.AND A LITTLE BIT DURING BRAINSTORM.SESSION. IT WAS MADE FOR PLAYERS And PLAYERS ONLY. IT TAUGHT THE DM TOO TO BE A PLAYER/PC. TOO. TO HAVE FUN AT THE EXPERIENCE.
Ten kobolds inspired newly teen me to realize this encounter needed to be thought out and not fought out, an ideal I keep in my encounter design today.
It's a real hard lesson for new players literally wet behind the ears, but once you learn it...
I remember a small game convention I was running 3e. The battle was meant to be tough, but some bad die rolls and worse tactics tilted the odds towards TPK. After round 5 or so of 'this isn't fun anymore', I calmly put down my shield, looked everyone in the eye until the chatter died, then softly said, "Run." Then I lifted my screen and got to DM my first fighting withdrawal. The convention mod was dead. The game lived.
I think there's another element beyond the rules and their accessibility. Older editions, especially BECMI for me, were about discovery and shared exploration of the game. The story, if there was such a thing, was emergent and what we talked about after the game in the form of encounters and what happened in the game to our characters. The issue with 5e is that everything has to be so goddamn epic. The PCs are effectively superheroes and the DM has to create huge incredible plots and quests for their adventures rather than rely on the fun coming from the interaction of players with the game. The modern game is far too heavily plotted and the DM has more in common with a script writer, director, producer and a load of actors rather than older ways of playing where the DM was more of the referee of the game and relied on the story to emerge from the game itself and very loose elements/information. That 'shift' is massively intimidating for a newbie and tiring for even an experienced DM.
I have to agree. Another thing were that some of the early modules like Keep on the Borderlands, Expidition into the Unknown, and Palace of the Silver Princess were eith lke a sandbox, where a DM would have to come up with adventures, or the modules thenselves encouraged the DM to fill out the encounters as he or she saw fit and make the adventure their own.
Yes, one thing I noticed especially starting at 3e, was the rules also became a game in itself. Players would make feat combos, multi-classing, etc. in complex ways hoping to 'win' and there would be a fight with DMs over not allowing splat books, certain combos, blaming them for putting in monsters which couldn't be affected by your specific build, etc. Basic, and even 1e didn't have that.
Great video! BX also uses the phrasing “be fair” and I agree this is key especially when the target audience is young “fair” is something we all understand and sits outside any particular rule.
Good video, mate 🤘
BECMI is the one game, that I have found anyway, that did this right. What better way to dip your toes into roleplaying, than having a short solo adventure to wet your appetite, and then a great "how to run adventure" first game tutorial, with the added bonus of "you create the final level, using what you have learned", introducing the dm not only how to run a game, but create an adventure.
Still my favorite edition of D&D.
I just want to add a small thing.
A lot of people are shouting profanities and putting down D&D, in light of recent developments. It's not D&D that's the problem. The people that created D&D actually care/cared about the game. The problem is the current rights holders. wizards of the coast and their owner, Hasbro.
Hopefully, one day, D&D will have good designers on it again, people who care. More hopefully, it will not be in the grasp of Hasbro or wotc if/when that happens.
Right on. Corporate-minded MBA types have no business running a gaming company because they may be geniuses at running standard businesses, but niche industries, like gaming, require people who understand the products, the market, and the consumers. That's how monstrosities like Games Workshop have stayed in business for decades. Corporate types, back to Lorraine Williams who ran TSR into the ground in the 90s, don't grasp what their product is and since they don't understand they just try to force it to be like products they do understand. Williams was dismissive of and denigrating to gamers and just viewed TSR as a company where morons would shovel money at her so long as anything AD&D/BECMI got offered to them. Quality declined, more expensive rulebooks/fluff books were put out, and the market for new crap died out. And here we have WOTC doing that same thing all over again, amusingly under another female non-gamer CEO named Williams. Unintentionally ironic.
The best version of D&D.
The Mentzer box sets are straight up the best edition to learn D&D (any edition) period. You illustrate this fact perfectly.
A pool of calm away from the OGL scandal.
This set was and still is the best Christmas gift I've even been given. So many decades of joy.
Yet another great video!
BECMI seems to agree with your style.
I believe you have found your calling.
Hands down, the two best versions of D&D were the Moldvay/Cook and what we now call "BECMI." I'm a bit biased perhaps in my feelings on this but it was the way they were written and HOW they were written that made them what they are....As you perfectly illustrated in your video these things were teaching guides as well as instruction manuals. To this day they still are used as the basic framework for which I design and run my "Basic Fantasy RPG" games. This is an excellent video! Keep up the awesome work!
Excellent walkthrough of the starter adventure, I never had BECMI and I can’t say I’ve ever seen this adventure talked about - what a great resource.
Thanks, Bandit!
Wow, I never realized how good the Mentzer basic set is. I have the original moldvay b/x, the companion and master set, along with the rules cyclopedia, so I never looked into it. Very informative, thank you!
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching.
I think the ten kobolds are a great idea because they're a wall. They encourage the players to run away, to think up a new approach, to act outside of the box. They introduce the idea that the world can't always be defeated with strength of arm, and balance isn't the top priority. I don't know if new players would think to take a hostage if the odds weren't so totally against them.
I really like this. My brother and I got started on First Quest and the D&D classic black box. I think First Quest did alright in the same vein as the classic red box, but that may just be my nostalgia talking
It was a very different time. There were 5 of us when we started: a 12, 10, 10, 8, 8. The 12 year old preferred to play and paint miniatures. He became an aerospace engineer. I was 10 and the other 10 year old taught me how to play. He became the lead quest designer for the worlds most popular MMO. We took turns DM'ing for our younger siblings and the older kid. There wasn't a huge 3pp market and you had to create your own stuff if you wanted to play regularly. There just wasn't enough printed material to go around.
We also drew our own comic books, and created our own (rudimentary) games. Our generation was DIY. Some of us created fanzines, others started their own rock bands and put out records in the early 90s. It was different then. Not "better" like some sort of value judgement, but different. If you wanted more of a thing, you had to make it yourself. The grown up releases were HUGE events, but they were few and far between.
Today, there is an overabundance of content -- of all kinds. The impetus to create still exists, of course, but it isn't such a needful thing. Sure, someone can choose to DM, but -- lacking the intrinsic *need* to create in order to satisfy the content drought -- it is often easier to just be a player. Often, at the the console or computer, or on the phone.
In my opinion, this is the primary reason there are so few Dungeon Masters. It's too easy to not be one, for better or worse.
This articulates so well what I try to tell people about the game at that time. So many creators have cited early D&D as their inspiration for their work, but I honestly believe that it wouldn’t be so if D&D was as it is today. There’s not enough of a vacuum to fill.
I started with BECMI as a middle-schooler, had the first three sets, and played that for a few years before briefly going to 1E, then spending most of my time with 2E. I came back after a long break when 5E came out, so I could introduce my kids to it. I still use my original dice today in our game group. Thanks for the review! I'm trying to get our group to try the older editions for fun.
You’re more than welcome.
One of the few things that 5E did right was the starter sets and the Essentials kit. In a parallel universe there was an Companion kit, an Elaborations kit, and possibly even a Master kit, giving 5E a proper treatment to train Players and DMs. Sadly none of that happened. We just got one more Starter set (or maybe two, who keeps track?) and nothing to tell DMs how or when to CREATE which is apparently an old school philosophy that was never nurtured in 5E.
That's the reason, I feel, that 5E lacks dungeon masters. The supplementary modules actively hinder creation: their homogenous nature, along with the base's expectation that it's all mandatorily included and sacrosanct due to a bizarre perversion of the principle behind Rules As Written, hammers home the 5E dungeon master's place. He's not there to be fair. He's there to wait on the PCs like a server in a restaurant. The lack of effort and intelligence required to play 5E is one of it's greatest weaknesses on either side of the screen. All in the name of approachability.
If I was being honest and snarky as is my custom, I'd say there are really very few actual players or dungeon masters at 5E tables. The default users of 5E are rulesbook enthusiasts and module facilitators. Real players or DMs prsent at 5E tables are there under duress. That's all.
Maybe the lack of DMs for 5e has to do with the fact that the rules want the players to never have to struggle, just manage their resource pools , and the game really doesn't remotely function without having 8 encounters every single day. All the classes are made for this '8 fight' dungeon crawl paradigm, and everyone's jobs are super pre-defined, meaning its really hard for DMs to give players unique situations to be in. A barbarian simply can NOT talk with people like a rogue can, and gears people towards just finding their job and hitting monsters. Old games had a lot of focus on your character being a person outside of the dungeon, it wasn't until 4e that this stopped. Not to mention, the rule books used to be a lot more down to Earth. I remember 3rd edition's DMG opens up with talking about how to have a conversation with your players to change the rules that you feel like need to be changed, any many splatbook classes have ways to adapt them to other kinds of games and settings, and what their intentions are. Even the Unearthed Arcana book said that the options provided will be stronger or weaker depeneding on the kind of game you are running, and you need to make necessary adjustments if that is the case. 4e and 5e are books of corporate approved methods to play their board game.
I frankly don't buy this take for a second. I've ran 5e since the Next playtest packets, this whole "8 encounter" paradigm is a straw man. The adventuring day is a guideline, not a hard and fast "you MUST use this number of combats per day"
You want to kill PCs in 5e? Use higher CR monsters or lots of lower CRs. You want 5e to be grittier? Use 3d6 ability generation and roll for first level hit points.
The barbarian chatting up someone and being as good at it as a rogue is a high CHA and Persuasion prof granted by a background + skill expert feat. Done.
Frankly, the ruleset is flexible as fuck and all the bellyaching I hear from OSR types is just that: bellyaching. I run plenty of BECMI as well as modern editions of the game, these criticisms ring false to my ears.
I do agree as I find pcs with all their resources can take down massive threats so they need to be worn down , I have gone over to ruins of symbaroum a 5e dark fantasy setting with far less magic and power and deadly enemies where one encounter is terrifying thing and it's much better
@@Agell Ratio
@@punishedwhispers1218 the ratio hardly counts when the whole number of likes for the comment stream is under 20…and the channel is devoted to BECMI. 5e casuals aren’t here talking about it.
@@Agell you’re right; they’re wrong. More people are playing 5e than ever played BECMI. “ThE pLaYeRs aRe SuPeRhErOeS!!!” These guys realize they’re in control of their games, right? No one from WotC has ever kicked my door down to see if I’m following the rules.
BTW I grew up on BECMI in the ‘80’s, and while the basic set was in many ways a great introduction to RPGs, the rules set just isn’t that good. I have fond memories of it, but it wasn’t some masterpiece of design.
Simpler is better. Especially in regards to learning something new. The red box as taught to me by my 5th Grade teacher at his after school D&D club, made learning really fun and interactive. We were young so he would drop hints on different ways to go about resolving an encounter using critical thinking and problem solving.
I'm bringing this back in my current campaigns that I'm running. Noticing the group in their twenties are really struggling with this method. My veteran group, my age about 50, less so but still when it comes to puzzles, are less effective.
My third group whose ages are 21, 22, 31, and 50 and new to the game are faring the best when it comes to thinking outside the box. They are also the only group I play live with and not remotely. (also all women if that makes a difference, that is for an analyst to decide).
Anyhow, thanks for the nostalgia trip and looking forward to the other boxes set videos.
These days, I hear all sorts of stories about people originally getting into the hobby by learning AD&D from older friends and siblings. When I started, we didn't know anyone who played.
For me, my friends and I got the red box without knowing anything about it. The teaching aspect of this really helped us kids get started, especially the tone and feel. If we got the AD&D books instead, I'm not sure we would have figured it out.
Great vid and great analysis. You really demonstrate the genius of the authors.
My start into D&D was the B/X Edition by Moldvay, Cook and Marsh, and to this day I'll defend Moldvay's Basic to the death. BUT, I have to hand it to the later BECMI versions for really easing newcomers into their roles as DM or player.
I’ll take that. 🙂
Mentzer is where I got my start in D&D - but had been playing a form of D&D for a few weeks before my birthday in 1983 - it was purchased to encourage socialisation as a teen - 52 now. It enculturated me into 'roleplaying' in general. Easy to recall and adapt to needs - many people have examples of if they wanted more meat they would borrow 'extra' rules from the AD&D books. Long time sub - love your videos. Love my POD Rules Cyclopedia so much right now.
Thanks. That means a lot. Hoping to do at least one video a week.
Thank you for a really fun trip down memory lane!
Thank you for popping by!
What (for me) is not working on the 5e "starter sets" is that they are not "starter", but "demo" of the full game. There are no rules for generating new content: at the end of the adventure, you can not do more than to buy the core rulebooks. And there is also almost to zero information for DMs on how to run the game. Honestly, 5e is a great version of the D&D game, but still new DMs have to search everywhere for information on how to run the game. in 1980s, it just needed the red box (B/X or BECMI) to start playing, with no external help.
Demo, not starter, very well said. Ten year old son had fun DMing DoSI but was already familiar with 5E and wasn’t training new players. Once complete, no new character development or world building. Long live Basic and Expert boxed sets!
This is great stuff, brother. Your channel is inspiring. You unintentionally spark ideas in my mind about what’s possible in this game. Thanks so much. Think I’ll sub. 🔥
WHile all your points are valid, I think the larger issue is that the new players in their teens and 20s are used to having things handed to them AND from my experiance over the last several years in my FLGS, many of them have their first exposure to watching UA-cam and Twitch games that are being run by professional actors that are semi scripted.
As a consequence, their expectations of what a GM is is NOT someone fubleing around with the rules and being a judge but someone like Matt Mercer and they feel that they lack the skill and never try.
Yeah, this has convinced me to try BECMI. Now I gotta find a group for it...
The Basic set was the first roleplaying game I bought. Because there was no internet, I thought you needed to reach the immortal boxed set to finally be able to use the advanced d and books. I actually thought advanced meant, advanced play ounce you got past the levels of BECMI.
Believe it or not, I had a small group of friends who played this game and we did not even know there was a way to play the game with race and class as two seperate things.
I also spent a lot of time with GURPS and for Supers I played mayfairs DC heroes game. At that time, one of my favorite companies was Mayfair games, that company made a lot of solid books.
Loosing the cleric in my first solo game took me by surprise.
Lovely story.
I sent you a large coffee. I think you will like it, good sir. Agile Monk
Outstanding! Thank you so much.
The video is looking good Berserker, thank you for inside look and reminder of what best to do when trying to introduce a game to new players. Very useful for myself and my writing.
You’re more than welcome.
Well done as usual. Keep up the good work.
Thank you.
Great commentary!!!
Everyone in the comments talking about how the kobolds forced people to be creative, but I remember as a kid we just advanced under cover of boulders and used sleep to kill them all. When my older siblings moved out and I was the oldest, I was annoyed that the description just said *about* ten kobolds and didn't say if it was actually ten or a different number lol
Another great one, sir! Thank you 👊
The Basic Set DMs Guide had a slight advantage too: We'd just lost our D&D-girlfriend Aleena. We wanted REVENGE. Frank Mentzer taught us how.
Thank you for such a wonderful video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Please do a video that shows every product that's considered part of the BECMI "product line".
That’s a good idea. I’ll consider that.
every DM needs to go thru these books once or twice. ive seen a few newer dm's who didnt understand the most important rules. there is a big difference being CHEAP DM and being a hardcore but fair DM. a lot will pick up the mechanics of an edition but never take time to understand the fundamental philosophies and concepts to be a Good DM, so some will say they throw a hardcore game but in reality are lazy and just throw bad encounters to kill off players or target players to feel a god complex.
ussually the best ones of that style, wanna keep the players alive but want a hardcore game. so they set up a very well thought out encounters and are there to play out the encounter, not beat the players.
I never understood the parallel Adnd and DnD games until you now explained it. To me it was like 2 separate companies, in the same company, offering 2 separate - yet compatible games. It was very confusing. We thought the ADnD was the "all-in" ruleset, but now I see that the BECMI in total was a more mature and better system. It's too bad that I missed so much of the BECMI experience, I think I had much to learn from it. ADnD seemed to have all the bells and whistles, and we loved it, but I think we missed out on the lessons conveyed in these Basic Sets, especially and the settings and the Expert, Companion, Master and Immortal sets that really added on to the game in a way that ADnD never did. I regret not seeing it when it was right in front of me. Advanced was supposed to be Advanced - right?
Thank you for this. I appreciate it.
You’re more than welcome, and you’re far from the only one to have been diverted this way. You’re likely aware of the reason for there being two different games (legal wranglings between Arneson and Gygax) and I sometimes wonder if BECMI was pushed into such innovative concepts because it had to compete with the word “Advanced”. Anyway, welcome to BECMI and thanks for commenting.
I feel compelled to comment on WOTC revealing that the warrior on the cover of the 1983 Red Box is, in fact, a woman, despite all appearances to the contrary and even the original artist Larry Elmore, pointing out the obvious fact that the warrior is a man. The oft cited response is “why do you care?” Let me explain why we care (and at the same time explain why I love this channel). The 1983 Red Box was how most Gen X TTRPG players were introduced to the genre. Everything about it was fascinating and it started with that great cover artwork. It drew you in and held your attention. For me nothing in the 25 cent arcade or in the Atari 2600 lineup held a candle to that. That’s why this channel is so awesome. It pays respect to a great game that entertained millions.
So there is only two reasons you make such an odd retcon after 40 years. One possibility is the perception that there was not enough female representation in Dungeons and Dragons…well that’s simply not true. All the modules had female pre generated characters. Who could forget the awesome female magic user on the earlier Moldvoy cover? Heck, every 12 year old’s heart broke at the fate of Aleena who was an amazing female character straight out of the same red box set. So the only other possibility is WOTC sending a very clear message to older fans, and that message is “we don’t care about your lore, your memories, or that game, we own this IP and we can do whatever we want with it, and if you don’t like that, that is simply too bad.” That is why we care. At some point an intellectual property moves beyond the original designers and takes on a life of its own. When that happens the current stewards of that IP have a responsibility to not destroy the goodwill of the fanbase that got them here. WOTC did not make D&D into the beloved product that it is…they stand on the shoulders of giants and pretending those giants are no longer relevant by making not so subtle insults to what came before is supreme arrogance. You can have a modern product designed for modern sensitivities but don’t insult what came before in an effort to gain some unnecessary moral high ground. D&D was always inclusive, frankly before that was even a concept, and therefore retconning the old IP was completely unnecessary, and I can’t help but feel that it was meant to be a giant middle finger from WOTC to older players like me.
very well said!
I like the relaxed toned down style of your channel. Also great content!
That’s kind of you. Thank you.
@@becmiberserker I got into D&D buying this book, except it was translated into norwegian and both player and DM's guide were coupeled together into one book. Still very manageble. Also, in the norwegian version we got two Dragon Magazine modules at the end. Was this not included in the original english version?
@@yvindheilo229 We didn’t get those Dragon adventures in the UK version. What were the titles?
@@becmiberserker They were "The Trouble With Mylvin Wimbly" and "The Elven Home." I remember being puzzeled about how to run these. I was only 10 or 11 at the time and these were out door adventures! It was first when I got the expert book with "The Isle of Dread "in it a year or two later that I got my head around what they were supposed to be! (I had no DM's to teach me how to play)
@@yvindheilo229 Great story. Thanks for sharing.
The 1983 Basic Set is very comparable to D&D 5e's Starter Set, IMO. They both have step-by-step introductions to running the game that hold the GM's hand at first and slowly take the training wheels off by the midpoint. The starter set does use premade characters, and is designed to not be very deadly, but honestly I learned everything I needed to run 5e from the beginner box, to the point where I never actually read the PHB all the way through, only referenced it when making characters or casting spells.
One thing that struck me as odd and frustrating in the Basic box set adventure is the Harpy room. it states that the doors can only be opened by characters of 2nd level or greater, but never gives a good explanation for why this is, and it doesn't do a very good job (IMO) of explaining how much treasure you should be placing around the second and third floors, which is something that caused me more than a little frustration and anxiety.
I was expecting the first floor to be laden with enough treasure to get the players to 2nd level before having to go down to the second level, but the amount of treasure in the first floor is actually very limited.
Even the 5e starter set doesn't give you as much info to being a DM as what you described in the basic set.
Good video.
An excellent video, if I had gotten that guide in front of me instead of the massive DMG (most of which you don’t need 95% of the time) I would not have taken so long to try and then enjoy being a DM.
Honestly the creative part of the game is the best part. Randomly generating and discovering the map along with the players as you draw out the dungeon with random tables and what the players do is one of the better parts of playing in person.
I appreciate the adventure modules for what they are but often the best games I’ve played and run are using that as a starting point and going in a different direction.
Looks somewhat like a pf2e starter kit. A DM guide with some general advice, a starter dungeon (not as hardcore tho) and a bestiary exceeding the starter dungeon. The player's book is for levels 1-3 with 4 classes and 4 races. Both books are about 80 pages long. My first reaction to this was like "okay so i have to buy a Core Rule Book on top of it, so what's the point". But after your video it kinda makes some sense.
Love it
I got my start with AD&D 2nd Edition, but got to play the red box for the first time somewhat early in my introduction to ttrpg. While our group largely sticks to 2e, I do still enjoy BECMI play as well, and prefer it over any newer editions. Fun vid
The Graphics (design, tables et al) are also the clearest on BECMI. That brownish background on 5e text makes me tired (not dissing the content), like some type of fatigue... BECMI is a visual feast all in b&w.
Honestly, I think the reason why we have a DM shortage is because TTRPG's are a niche hobby that got some mainstream interest.
There are only so many people who are willing to read a book, whether it's 60 pages or 600 pages, just to play a game. Plus the amount of time and effort it can take to DM can be a bit too much for many people.
I think wrangling people into being a DM has always been a problem, at least as far back as 2e. And I say wrangling, because even back when I first started no one wanted to do it. It wasn't because of complexity or book size, it was due to the simple fact that everyone wanted to play. They had some exciting concept for a character, and no one wanted to give that up for the job and responsibility of being a glorified judge and not getting to play. That's why for the last 30 odd years I've ran probably 80% of the games, and that's been true as people have left and new people have entered the group. Its just not seen as fun or as rewarding as being able to progress your own character. I can't say I mind since DM'ing is an art form and I've spent quite alot of time working on it, It feels more fun and engaging than playing to me. But I don't think there are that many people out there who feel that way. The 2e DMG did so much to help and motivate me, and I credit it with teaching the right way to think about running. I think it has something to do with feeling like the game designers were talking directly to me and giving me advice, while modern books feel more sterile, less personal. In any case, you could do a whole video series on just DM philosophy and the types of people who gravitate towards being a DM.
I don't doubt that 5e, and before that 3e and 2e book sizes scared some off. You're right to point out that introductory material does exist: I believe there was a free basic rules .pdf available through Wizards that taught everything you need to know to play a basic game and run an intro module. Which is surprisingly little, honestly. Much of the 5e handbook is taken up with spells, and much of the rest is optional rules. The core game itself is quite easy. But if you're trying to run it for the first time and you have it in your head that you need to learn all the rules at once, and no one's taken the time to explain that its not necessary, then I can see how people would struggle with information overload. However, it doesn't really take that much perseverance to get started. This is where the role of gaming shops and knowledgeable people on hand to run introductory games used to be helpful, but those stores are disappearing. The single best way to learn D&D is to learn from another person, and that's always been true.
If there really is an increased DM shortage now, and I say "if" because I'm not at all convinced its worse than it used to be, then I would tend to blame people's short termism these days. We live in the world of the short attention span, where something has to be exciting all the time or people stop doing it. I'm not sure how a hobble like ours overcomes that. I think it would be a great time for a reissue of basic set, or a new revised version. I don't mean to offend when I say I always saw basic D&D as a stepping stone to AD&D, and I find it odd why that same dynamic doesn't exist anymore.
One other little thing. If Wizards says there's a shortage, I'd look carefully at that statement, especially if you believe they're attempting to introduce AI into a new virtual tabletop. Its exactly the sort of rumor I'd love to put out if I wanted to drive people to buy my new shiny upcoming product.
Thanks for the comment. I too was suspicious of the lack of DMs rumour for the reasons you suggest.
Your comment about learning DM-img from another person is interesting though. I’ve actually thought this was always D&D biggest weakness. I mean, you buy the books, get home , then… Sure, many people are able to pick it up, but too many have to see others do it first. That’s not ideal from a publisher’s perspective. It’s a barrier to the game, which I believe would have been lessened by better instructions in the vein of the Basic DM book. Oh well, we are where we are. I wonder if I can get my AI Dungeon Master with Helen Mirren’s voice…
Yeah, I did it the hard way, I'm a self taught DM. The old books were so full of examples of how to do it right, how to conduct yourself, how to be fair and what being fair even means. Its tough to run a game, any game that you've never seen before. These days you can watch endless examples of games on UA-cam but... I guess all I can say is you have to be careful who you watch. Being a DM ain't easy, but when you do it right and you get the "awesome game, can't wait for next week" responses, its just so worth it.
Ehh the 5e starter set and essentials kit does a lot that the basic set stuff in the smaller package. Though hats off to basic for handing off to the DM. As for "buying the rules twice" by that logic BECMI has you buy the rules like 5 times to get all the relevant content.
So Not really a fair comparison. Basic still has plenty of great pluses over the starter set there's no need to be unfair in your analysis.
BECMI is more "buy the rules in four or five parts" instead of "buy twice, thrice, etc" With few exceptions, the sets involved things for their levels of play. e.g. The Basic set included rules and spells only low level casters could use, with a couple examples like fireball for a higher level caster NPC. The monsters were mostly lower tier (except for the dragons). Later sets merely included things for higher tier play. It was possible to get years of adventuring enjoyment from just the Basic set, and the inclusion of the Expert set would expand that time sufficiently that it wasn't a waste that it also included fireball and dispel magic.
Thanks for the great content. I’m in total agreement which is why I’m writing something just like it for our new game.
Imo bx/becmi are great for DMs to learn and run the game.
They really are. My grip.learned from my Moldvay box. We learned in a vacuum, no mentor, not club environment, but the clear, concise and helpful prose made gamers of us, some of us lifelong.
Ten Kobolds...
As someone who played in the 80's and 90's with BECMI (still have all 5 box sets and 30+ modules and Gazetteers) but is mainly playing 5e now, I think the the 'simplicity' argument for BECMI is disingenuous. I think I owned the Basic set for a year having no idea how to play it (maybe I was 10ish) until a new kid came to my school and became my first DM. These days with UA-cam, you can watch many actual games being played so the "How to Play" is way less important and most people come to the game, will watch this sort of content which just wasn't available back in the 80's. Also, 5e has not one but 3 different Starter/Essentials sets now with pre-made or make your own custom characters with a set of dice and really good modules/campaign for like 12-20 bucks. So I can learn the game and play a module for levels1 up to 5? for less money than what the Basic set costed me back then. I think the 5e new play experience is significantly superior than previous versions IMO.
it saddens me that WotC is replacing DMs/GMs with an AI ... thanfully, i replaced their game with my own (self designed) after 4th edition and vowed never to spend a dime on any of their products (which every veteran knows are just knockouts from previous editions retrofitted to the current one, with meek exceptions like eberron and thats about it)
C'est exactement le contraire.ASHARDALON.
An interesting video of when D&D was fun.....with no strings.
It had an inbuilt solo adventure.
H8Z rust monsters to this day.
As for my main all in one editions of my which are made for people new/dislike TT games and those who are looking for something new I just have one big like 11 pages long tutorial that have you the reader watch a veteran group play the start to an session... and show in text the game in action maybe with picture/art in the release version. Which I think works for my game/audnce and me deving it better then parting itt up in different books/chapters. But still tis is really impressive and all the TTRPGs I have seen this is te best introduction to TTRPGs and I have been imsperered.
did my comments get deleted? i was trying to share the pdfs of this adventure wotc gave out for free
can't comment links on youtube anymore
@@EteraRPG that is stupid!
BECMI rulz 5E drulz
Merci !
Thank you!
This is why I tell new DMs to start with a Starter or Essentials box for 5E. It sucks you have to buy the rules twice but WotC aren't the only ones doing that in 2023
Forget the monsters when they are Slain!,
I have 40 acres of land here in West wales dedicated to the memorial of every single one with stone statuary I call it midian
Unfortunately WOTC content has been declining in quality. The starter sets are the opportunity for DM tutorial and apparently a book in the 1980's simply surpasses them in quality and effectiveness.
The thing that makes DMing easier nowadays is content creators. UA-cam videos and such.
My best advice is for DM prospects to try other systems such as dungeon world and index card rpg. They have a good GM section in their resources. But any RPG should start with a tutorial adventure like the Call of Cthulu starter set.
13.49. We are all doom2 dommages. 13=El hazard. dommages et intérêts.LA VIE N'EST PAS?pour les monstres à ADD.C'est pour cela que je ne joue qu'aux BASIC.1 rencontré peut facilement aboutir à une négociation.MAIS CA C'ETAIT AVANT LES JEUX-VIDEOS....
To be fair, in 5E you don't need to read (own!) the DMG, you only need the PHB - and the number of pages is similar to the ADnD versions (and 5e rules are based on ADnD and not BECMI). That said, yes, introduction to DMing was far better in BECMI, plus the paid for scenarios were smaller and easier to manage - although the square 'read this aloud' box is no longer favoured, at the time (when we had no other cognitive models to hang RPGs onto) they were invaluable. Its a shame the modules didn't evolve - the Master ones still have the same approach with boxes - at that point, they could've been doing something bigger and and better.
@@DemetrisAthanasopoulos 3.x philosophy is definitely far closer to the AD&D approach than it is BECMI, even though the d20 mechanics are different to AD&D. As for not reading the DMG as being the problem with 5e - I suggest thats an opinion for a different audience.
So that explains why D&D does not have a core rulebook but core books instead... As for me I'm managing to make an all in one rule book fit in just less then 200 pages and my max is 399 pages... And it's my first game ever and I had no TTRPG hands n expernce before hand just RPG shows and all of the video games... So WOTTC should be able to do what the basic set did in 2023 and being top dog... Butt then again they could not charge $60 for it... 3 times.
Ok, fair is fair. You can’t really criticize WOTC for creating a beginner box and then “making people buy the rules twice” with the rule books when your holy grail is FIVE box sets that make up a game.
As i know you are only à berserker, for my opinion, i won't importunate you anymore.OK. Pal! have à Nice Day.
🙂 *promosm*
I had to stop watching, sorry, but idk what mic you're using I can hear your tongue clicking and every bit of saliva in your mouth
New mic on the way.
@@becmiberserker don't want to make you feel bad, keep making the content you want my dude
@@SuperMagicNinjaBunny Ha! No it’s okay. I totally understand and I do actually have a mic coming tomorrow. If you could just ignore the sounds and somehow enjoy the content then that would be great. Thanks for commenting. It’s all good! 🙂
1983 BECMI《B》: WAS MADE for PLAYERS.EVERYTHING WAS MADE FOR GETTING THEM CONFORTABLE
.ESPECIALLY AT THE TABLE.AND A LITTLE BIT DURING BRAINSTORM.SESSION.
IT WAS MADE FOR
PLAYERS And PLAYERS ONLY.
IT TAUGHT THE DM TOO TO BE A
PLAYER/PC. TOO. TO HAVE FUN AT THE EXPERIENCE.