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The card is bananas... Eldrazi Say no more... I have a hard time naming a bad Eldrazi creature. Like Hydras all you need is mana to make them worth the effort.
Hardest thing for me to understand is the consistency of Zoo Domain. Its a Rainbow deck and I have Zero clues how many multi type lands exist. Honestly sounds like a brick laying machine of constant disappointment. 1 red one colorless but only drew blue green black land sort of thing. Whats the general deck build break down for a zoo domain?
@@kodytiffany5686 Fetch lands are the reason the mana base is as consistent as it is, and if you start the game with Leyline of the Guildpact, your mana always taps for any color!
@@TheOneJameYT Its more so a disbelief in fetch lands as a whole due to the ones I know insisting they come in tapped as well as having costs except like one exception in which its still tapped. Meanning I see the deck as having about 5 turns of set up needed for the fetch lands to truly make a difference due to all your mana being drained in basic land set up as your deck draws no land out side of your opening hand. Literally my most common experience playing the game even with half my deck being land and shuffling the hell out of it. I always draw to much of one side and not enough of the other; combined with my search cards showing up late. Luck seems the most relevant factor in consistency which leads back to my initial questions. Maybe its just a few Lucky people taking all the spot light while the majority of the pilots are not being included in the ranking of the deck. Sorry but probability and statistics rarely match my own experiences in card games leading me to doubt them so strongly... every card game. I primarily play Yugioh Master Duel these days and still have the bad luck of shuffling working against the numbers.
@@kodytiffany5686 with around 10 fetch lands and a lot of dual and tri-colored lands, you only need 2 lands in play to have all 5 basic land types. For example, Zagoth Triome and Sacred Foundry give you all types. Blue black green, and red white.
I love that Hoshiro was appropriately surprised by the "when you cast this card..." trigger, because the significance of that phrasing is easily missed. Similar with spotting the synergy between Evoke and Not Dead After All instantly. One thing that may or may not help when explaining "converted mana cost" is to describe it as "the mana cost, converted to a number." CMC can be confusing because it's not immediately obvious why or how the cost is "converted," so explaining that might make the phrase easier to understand.
@@TheOneJameYT I think explaining that "CMC" is the total cost of the card, as opposed to the color/generic requirements. CMC helps to evaluate the earliest you could potentially play a card, while the actual mana cost is more used in relation to the lands required for the deck. a 1UUU card and a 3U card are very different even though they have CMC 4
I guess that could help but tbh I think converted mana cost is just too nerdy/wordy of a term for most people, it's better to just say "oh that means the total mana cost" without trying to explain what converted mana cost is even supposed to mean
@@Lightning_Lance That's quite possible, and is why I am not sure if my suggestion would help. I gave it because that detail - not understanding what was so "converted" about the "converted mana cost" - was what caused the slight bit of confusion I had when I first encountered the term. Realizing that {G}{G} ≠ {2} ≠ 2 (i.e. the number two) was what cured that confusion. I'm not exactly normal, so what helps me doesn't always apply to many other than me, but I can attest that clarifying what 'converted' refers to would at least help some.
Another key thing with Voidwalker: The card you steal is cast as normal and would go to the graveyard, but all the other cards are still exiled with a void counter on them. So if you somehow were to revive the voidwalker or play another one, you can use any card previously exiled cards still or new ones.
Yeah. Plenty of cards can get back things they exile themselves, but I can only think of a couple (Karn the Great Creator, Riftsweeper, Pull from Eternity) that can get anything. I guess there are the processors that get back your opponents stuff though.
@@TheOneJameYT So far, it seems good. One but if constructive criticism is that I think you could link the UA-cam channel you are doing the giveaway with in the description and/or a pinned comment.
So "wish" effects as they are called could once apon a time pull literally any card you own from outside the game, however when they playtested spawnsire of ulamog they needed to change the rules as they wre afraid people would bring hundreds of eldrazi to put into play and it became unfeesable to allow people to carry around a bag of cards just for one card ability. Alot of people think wish effects were always limited to sideboard in competitive events. However, that isn't the fact. The rules text for all older wish cards only say sideboard as of 2009 and spawnsire was printed in 2010 meaning its obvious spawnsire was in playtesting at the time and no other wish effect was released or even in playtesting around this time period. Another fun fact: the first wish effect was printed all the way back in arabian nights. And it doesnt even have the reminder rules text on gatherer about the fact it needs to grab from the sideboard.
Another fun fact, outside of competitive Magic, you can in fact grab any card in your binder 903.11. If a player is allowed to bring a card from outside the game into a Commander game, that player can’t bring a card into the game this way if it has the same name as a card that player had in their starting deck, if it has the same name as a card that the player owns in the current game, or if any color in its color identity isn’t in the color identity of the player’s commander. In a casual game, a card you choose from outside the game comes from your personal collection. In a tournament event, a card you choose from outside the game must come from your sideboard. In Limited events, your sideboard includes an arbitrary number of basic lands. You may look at your sideboard at any time. (Official ruling under wish cards)
this is not true. wish effects could always only pull form sideboard in tournaments. what changed is that there use to not be an "exile" zone so out side the game was included cards removed with say swords to plowshares etc. so for the original wishes the most played now being burning wish but when they were instandard cunning sish was teh most played as since the y self exiled if you had a way to copy it , you could retrieve the original back to hand to play it every turn. once ehy introduced exile , the functionality of htsoe cards changed so cunning wish cant wish ofr itself any more hence why Karn has to specify exile and outside the game.
@@sethstephens4777 two things: 1. your spelling is terrible. 2. It's quite possible you are right as I never went to any competitive events prior to 2013 so it's possible they event organizers did enforce the sideboard rule however it is also true that the sideboard rule was only added to wish cards in 2009, so afaik it's probably one of those rules that wasn't an official rule just a rule everyone knew and accepted.
FREE OUTSIDE THE GAME, np longer shall we be shackled by the confines of the sideboard and once more will we return to the glory of our former days becoming truly unconfined by all gamly shackles
fun fact: that's not actually why it's called scam, it's called scam cause before mh2 it already existed as a deck, but it was both really bad, and had a lot of really expensive cards for the format in it, so originally it was called scam cause playing the deck was scamming yourself, and then it later became a good deck and the name took on the meaning you described
Tbh that DOES mean its sideboard only. Doesnt really matter whats happening at kitchen tables no? Technically i can play 50 lands a turn too if im not at events, or just draw whenever i want xD
@@ich3730 You can't, since even kitchen table magic is limited by the comprehensive rules of the game. If you want to play 50 lands a turn, you're not playing MtG any more. The comprehensive rules explicitly state what "outside the game" means in both constructed play (your sideboard) and casual play (your entire collection).
Scion Draco can be interacted with by removing the enchantment or with Sacrifice Effects such as Sheoldred’s Edict, Pick Your Poison or Angraths Rampage. In combo matchups you even board out the Leyline of the Guildpact for a faster clock and additional hate pieces.
I love how your explaining everything so easily whereas in YGo vids you basically have to bend ur brain backwards to find a common ground with casual lingo😂😂😂
its interesting that he used Scam as an example of a tier 2 deck as its only tier two now becuase cards were recently ( as in a few months ) banned from it.
And it's still arguably just as good as zoo. For the sake of making the video, you can definitely say zoo is the best of these three but for the sake of metagame analysis/abstract power level discussion/prepping for the format/etc, they're effectively the same tier (in my opinion). Heck, I'd even say winning the die roll is more impactful than the relative power level of these decks.
I’m a modern player and I couldn’t even tell you which is which lol. I think it’s Domain, Tron, Scam but I’m not entirely sure cause I don’t play online and my shop doesn’t have any of these decks.
As someone who only knows commander format, I was almost as lost as your guest here. Though I too thought the 'scam' deck was the strongest. Hitting card advantage is generally always powerful across most games. But I stand corrected in this case. But like I said, I only know commander format.
this was a tough matchup. all three decks are incredibly strong, making it very hard for your guest to figure out which one has the edge. but he showed that he has what it takes to become a great player. he spotted the synergies very quickly and understood exactly what makes something strong anf what isn't as relevant
Grief + Not Dead After all isn't card advantage. You're exiling a card to pitch and casting Not Dead to take to cards from their hand. That's 2 for 2, yeah. But then you're left with the original creature card you cast, which "cost" you a card/ is a card in itself. So you're even.
It's funny to me how now, only three months later, the Meta has changed so much that Tron is way ahead of the other two Archetypes now, and the only one close to where it used to be...
@@TheOneJameYT yeah, but I thought it was funny. Not a diss or something. It probably is the only thing that does that, and yet is rarely used for that part of the ability.
8:57 "You may reveal a card you own outside of the game" ? It doesn't say "sideboard" so you should be able to bring any card you possess with this hahahahaha
my man the best deck in modern is Tron. Zoo is currently the most dominant because it is meta warping, but Tron also just eats it alive. Tron eats the format alive, only a few decks can really stand toe to toe with a great Tron player. Especially on a nut draw, that deck is an uphill slog.
It was fun being on your show again Jame! Unfortunately I haven't had time to really stream so I haven't been on Twitch as of late, but I might start streaming extremely late for all of those who'd be interested in watching over at www.twitch.tv/hoshiroe or if you all have any somewhat unique ideas on some UA-cam content you'd like to see feel free to leave them below.
As someone that hasnt finished the video yet but with a bit of magic experience that 3rd archetype has to be tier two and the funny thing is if you have leyline on the board the game literally becomes like yugioh for you
small correction: the grief + not dead after all combo is a +0, not a +1, as you are not actually _gaining_ the reanimated grief since ... you already had it. granted, you are going +1 on _field_ advantage on top of going +0 in card advantage while gaining both hand knowledge and ripping your opponent's two best cards, it's just that that's you gaining a buttload of tempo over your opponent while keeping your resources equal ... i mean, technically there _is_ the wicked role token, but that's really more of of a way of doing an indefinitely lingering effect in a game that doesn't really have those, so it really is the most "technically" +1 unless you also happen to be running some kinda enchantment eater that can make the token's existence actually tangible
For some reason I overlooked the exiled black card! Not sure why lol. If something cared about the Role token being there it would be a +1 but that’s pretty rare.
@@alicetheaxolotl I stoped playing before wastes were introducted. I just saw that they were colerless basic mana. I assumed it counted as a new land type.
I was wondering how would you categorize an archetype in magic terms. I know you just went with like magic decks in general, but for a seocnd I thought you'd be showing like draft color archetypes that went on to have some success. Like how in Ikoria, Boros Cycling was a real deck.
I'm not really sure "archetype" is even really the right word for mtg's card classifications, since tribe/tribal is the game's equivalent to what yugioh would call an archetype. It would usually denote cards with explicit naming conventions and interactions with those that share parts of their name as opposed to their type, or if they mention a card of that name in their text. I'd consider the Jurasic Park Owen/Blue Partner stuff archetypal, but cards like, say, the Eldrazi tend to care specifically about being colorless or having the Eldrazi type more-so than anything with Eldrazi in the name. Idk, I feel like its like trying to fit a rhombus into a square hole. They're pretty damn close, but different enough to where they probably shouldn't be used in the same connotations
Interesting way of handling this. I do think some of the card selections and explanations were a little misleading and gave him the wrong impression, and I've seen people here in the comments repeating these misconceptions. For example, it seemed like he got the impression the Tron deck is entirely about getting to Karn and using him to toolbox, when actually the concept of "Tron decks" long predates him and was coined to describe decks that generated huge amounts of Colourless Mana to power out giant Colourless threats, and the Karn toolbox is also used in many other decks, but rarely as the main win condition (at least after Mycosynth Lattice got banned). And since he didn't really know what kind of useful Artifacts you could put in your sideboard, he didn't have the context to judge how good the toolbox strategy is anyway. So showing Karn was a bad idea, I think. I would have shown another giant Colourless Creature instead, something like Wurmcoil Engine or Cityscape Leveler or Sundering Titan. That, or another way of finding the Lands, like Ancient Stirrings or Sylvan Scrying. Similarly, only mentioning Fetch Lands and Dual Lands and Triomes briefly at the very end seems to have left him with the impression that the Domain deck is all-or-nothing and needs Leyline Of The Guildpact in order to function at all, hence his assessment of it as a "gimmick deck that relies on one card", when it's really the opposite: a deck that rewards you for playing with the basic game mechanics that everyone already uses. I can see how someone who doesn't understand how Lands are played, especially in this format, might not realize how easy it is to get Domain at least partway powered up - remember that the Domain decks that are also dominant in Standard were also able to function before the Leyline released with a much more limited pool of multi-Type Lands and Land fetching. Also, when you were discussing Ragavan and his Treasures and Mana in that section, I don't think you ever mentioned that your Lands being made every Type means they can Tap for every Colour of Mana. If you wanted do more of this and continue the theme of currently or recently good Modern decks, my first idea when I saw people suggesting rating Magic archetypes was one that's been a format all-star for a while now that I feel like should be easy for Yu Gi Oh players to evaluate: Izzet Murktide. It has a fairly simple and straightforward gameplan that shouldn't require too much outside context like some of these had issues with, and it involves a lot of stuff Yu Gi Oh players should be familiar with: card draw, using the Graveyard as a resource, playing a lot of cards in one turn, and ending with a giant powerful dude who's summoned and powered up by using your other cards as a resource. I would show some combination of Scalding Tarn, Ragavan, Dragon's Rage Channeler, Ledger Shredder, Mishra's Bauble, Preordain, Expressive Iteration, Lightning Bolt, Unholy Heat, Counterspell, Spell Pierce, and Murktide Regent.
Thank you very much for the feedback with deck and card selection. I have a grasp on Yugioh but MTG doesn’t really have clear-cut archetypes for the most part, so I was trying something new. I’ll try to improve on every MTG archetype/deck video from here on out.
@@TheOneJameYT Yeah, I mentioned in an earlier interaction in another video that it not having archetypes in the same way seemed like it would make it trickier to take the same approach, but I still think you did well with testing out a new format, I was just offering feedback which I know you've welcomed previously. I actually first saw this reply when I was editing my original comment because I had another thought, which is that probably the best card for the Tron selection instead would have been Ancient Stirrings - I know Yu-Gi-Oh players love their in-archetype search effects and their consistency, and this one is basically an "Excavate" effect which is versatile in that can find part of the Land combo or one of your giant payoff threats or anything else you showed him in the video, so it would give more of an idea of how consistent the deck can be.
@@mb778_ I just listed all the options, but I think it's important to show the core build-around creatures and then show one of each of the different categories of spells it runs - counterspells, removal/damage, and card selection. Which one of each is less important, but you want to show the kinds of spells you put in it. Tarn and Bauble serve as extra context to show how easy it is to fill your Graveyard while also meeting the type requirement for Delirium. Of course, Bauble is also a free noncreature spell, making it easy to trigger the Surveil and Connive triggers from Darcy and birb man, which are the other way you fill up the Graveyard other than just casting spells normally while also drawing through your deck to get the other stuff you need, so it's all connected, which is part of what would make it such a cool archetype to see someone unfamiliar evaluate, but also a bit hard to narrow down to just five cards.
Magic has “banish face down” but it’s not like yugiohs. Instead, in magic face up exile/banish is already a sufficiently “super super graveyard”. Where there are only like 5 cards that can bring things back from exile (and they are all really bad) Cards in face down exile typically are sent there by an effect that will later return them to the game when a condition is met.
It does, but getting cards from exile is already very hard in magic in general. The face down exile tends to be more about keeping information hidden. For example, siphon insight is a card that lets you pick one of the top 2 cards from the top of your opponents deck, exile it face down and cast it later. The reason it's face down is so your opponent doesn't know what you picked, not to make it more inaccessible
Is domain zoo better than scam in modern? Idk modern is "that weird formstci only watch when someone makes a weird deck in it" so idk, im a legacy "oh no another Delver opponent" boi and in that format scam seems to be one of THE most annoying things to ever exist?
Spoiler warning *** Damn I was wrong xD I was with hoshiroe tho it seemed too gimmicky but it makes sense if you can make the game become yugioh that's pretty busted cause yugioh is busted but from someone that mainly plays commander that deck just seems like it wouldn't work also I thought grief would be broken because you have a copy of reflection of kiki jiki with your face on it lmao
@@TheOneJameYT yep. And I know some People hate Tron. But I love it. After all it's cheating big things big creatures it's kinda elegant to me like Lotus field in pioneer. I would prefer die against an Ulamog than against a Ragavan who snow ball
They banned the wrong incarnation from Scam... Fury creates fast games, Grief creates non-games. Grief is also in the same color as the revival spells, improving consistency by reducing the required Red component in the deck. If you are going to ban only one of the two, as WOtC insisted on doing, you ban Grief!
12:09 You should answer at the end if the decks are considered good or not. So is this colorless deck Trand or whatever you called it considered good ? I don't like it much. I don't think it's very good. That Ulamog card seems broken though. You said they can block this and it has no trample but it is indestructible. Why would you even care when it sends 20 cards of their deck ? 3 Attacks at most and you win the game by decking them out. You don't care about points at that point. 10 Mana is obviously the problem but I remember a card called Channel ? Why bother with all those urza cards instead of using channel and bringing it very early in the game and since it can't be destroyed it wins you the game most of the time. Broken. But the deck doesn't seem good only that card does and it can be abused better in other decks that's what I think.
@@JohnFromAccounting True , I thought it was legal in some formats but the card is too broken. Isn't there any similar card that can do the same in a way and summon an artifact creature fast ?
Sorry to say but this ain't really an archetype, it does not have the same word stapled on sixteen places on all relevant cards. Also what is up with readable effects with no You can only use this effect randomly put in parentheses on the cards ,does MTG not know how to design cards? Do better...😅😅😅😂😂😂 In all seriousness I cannot call them archetypes with the name thing it is burned into my brain😂😂😂
So there are lands called Triomes, okay? For example, there is Zagoth Triome, and it gives you Sultai mana... 😵💫🫨 I laughed because that prob meant nothing to him ... 😂
tbh its kinda sad seeing the one ring mentioned as a part of the tron archetype, but karn liberated ( the most well known classic tron bomb ) doesnt even appear
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The card is bananas...
Eldrazi
Say no more... I have a hard time naming a bad Eldrazi creature.
Like Hydras all you need is mana to make them worth the effort.
Hardest thing for me to understand is the consistency of Zoo Domain.
Its a Rainbow deck and I have Zero clues how many multi type lands exist.
Honestly sounds like a brick laying machine of constant disappointment.
1 red one colorless but only drew blue green black land sort of thing.
Whats the general deck build break down for a zoo domain?
@@kodytiffany5686 Fetch lands are the reason the mana base is as consistent as it is, and if you start the game with Leyline of the Guildpact, your mana always taps for any color!
@@TheOneJameYT Its more so a disbelief in fetch lands as a whole due to the ones I know insisting they come in tapped as well as having costs except like one exception in which its still tapped.
Meanning I see the deck as having about 5 turns of set up needed for the fetch lands to truly make a difference due to all your mana being drained in basic land set up as your deck draws no land out side of your opening hand.
Literally my most common experience playing the game even with half my deck being land and shuffling the hell out of it.
I always draw to much of one side and not enough of the other; combined with my search cards showing up late.
Luck seems the most relevant factor in consistency which leads back to my initial questions.
Maybe its just a few Lucky people taking all the spot light while the majority of the pilots are not being included in the ranking of the deck.
Sorry but probability and statistics rarely match my own experiences in card games leading me to doubt them so strongly... every card game. I primarily play Yugioh Master Duel these days and still have the bad luck of shuffling working against the numbers.
@@kodytiffany5686 with around 10 fetch lands and a lot of dual and tri-colored lands, you only need 2 lands in play to have all 5 basic land types. For example, Zagoth Triome and Sacred Foundry give you all types. Blue black green, and red white.
I love that Hoshiro was appropriately surprised by the "when you cast this card..." trigger, because the significance of that phrasing is easily missed. Similar with spotting the synergy between Evoke and Not Dead After All instantly.
One thing that may or may not help when explaining "converted mana cost" is to describe it as "the mana cost, converted to a number." CMC can be confusing because it's not immediately obvious why or how the cost is "converted," so explaining that might make the phrase easier to understand.
Thanks for the feedback!
@@TheOneJameYT I think explaining that "CMC" is the total cost of the card, as opposed to the color/generic requirements. CMC helps to evaluate the earliest you could potentially play a card, while the actual mana cost is more used in relation to the lands required for the deck. a 1UUU card and a 3U card are very different even though they have CMC 4
I guess that could help but tbh I think converted mana cost is just too nerdy/wordy of a term for most people, it's better to just say "oh that means the total mana cost" without trying to explain what converted mana cost is even supposed to mean
@@Lightning_Lance That's quite possible, and is why I am not sure if my suggestion would help. I gave it because that detail - not understanding what was so "converted" about the "converted mana cost" - was what caused the slight bit of confusion I had when I first encountered the term. Realizing that {G}{G} ≠ {2} ≠ 2 (i.e. the number two) was what cured that confusion. I'm not exactly normal, so what helps me doesn't always apply to many other than me, but I can attest that clarifying what 'converted' refers to would at least help some.
this is why the phrasing was changed to "mana value". because value implies a number in a way that cmc always somewhat obfuscated
Another key thing with Voidwalker: The card you steal is cast as normal and would go to the graveyard, but all the other cards are still exiled with a void counter on them. So if you somehow were to revive the voidwalker or play another one, you can use any card previously exiled cards still or new ones.
You brought a good fact up on Ulamog.
I'd venture to say theirs way more cards in yugioh that deal with banished/exiled cards then in Magic.
Floowandereeze, Gren Maju, Macro Cosmos, Kashtira, Branded, Tenyi, chaos decks, and Bystials have a little bit of application.
Yeah. Plenty of cards can get back things they exile themselves, but I can only think of a couple (Karn the Great Creator, Riftsweeper, Pull from Eternity) that can get anything. I guess there are the processors that get back your opponents stuff though.
My favorite ones are the MtG videos. I'm a big fan of the game and it's great to see the perspective of others outside of MtG.
Same!
Oooh, my suggestion eventually came through. I'm so excited.
It did! Let me know what you think
@@TheOneJameYT So far, it seems good. One but if constructive criticism is that I think you could link the UA-cam channel you are doing the giveaway with in the description and/or a pinned comment.
@@izaiahsundquist6877 Done!
All three decks are solidly tier 1 decks. These are 3 of the top 5 most played decks right now by usage.
They’re all good as I’ve said in the video. 1 is just a little better than the rest right now.
So "wish" effects as they are called could once apon a time pull literally any card you own from outside the game, however when they playtested spawnsire of ulamog they needed to change the rules as they wre afraid people would bring hundreds of eldrazi to put into play and it became unfeesable to allow people to carry around a bag of cards just for one card ability.
Alot of people think wish effects were always limited to sideboard in competitive events. However, that isn't the fact. The rules text for all older wish cards only say sideboard as of 2009 and spawnsire was printed in 2010 meaning its obvious spawnsire was in playtesting at the time and no other wish effect was released or even in playtesting around this time period.
Another fun fact: the first wish effect was printed all the way back in arabian nights. And it doesnt even have the reminder rules text on gatherer about the fact it needs to grab from the sideboard.
Another fun fact, outside of competitive Magic, you can in fact grab any card in your binder
903.11. If a player is allowed to bring a card from outside the game into a Commander game, that player can’t bring a card into the game this way if it has the same name as a card that player had in
their starting deck, if it has the same name as a card that the player owns in the current game, or if any color in its color identity isn’t in the color identity of the player’s commander.
In a casual game, a card you choose from outside the game comes from your personal collection. In a tournament event, a card you choose from outside the game must come from your sideboard. In Limited events, your sideboard includes an arbitrary number of basic lands. You may look at your sideboard at any time. (Official ruling under wish cards)
this is not true. wish effects could always only pull form sideboard in tournaments. what changed is that there use to not be an "exile" zone so out side the game was included cards removed with say swords to plowshares etc. so for the original wishes the most played now being burning wish but when they were instandard cunning sish was teh most played as since the y self exiled if you had a way to copy it , you could retrieve the original back to hand to play it every turn. once ehy introduced exile , the functionality of htsoe cards changed so cunning wish cant wish ofr itself any more hence why Karn has to specify exile and outside the game.
@@sethstephens4777 two things:
1. your spelling is terrible.
2. It's quite possible you are right as I never went to any competitive events prior to 2013 so it's possible they event organizers did enforce the sideboard rule however it is also true that the sideboard rule was only added to wish cards in 2009, so afaik it's probably one of those rules that wasn't an official rule just a rule everyone knew and accepted.
Me who hasn't played modern in a few years thinking back to the decks in the top 2 of pro tour LOTR and then realizing that was 10 months ago...
Lol yea time flies
FREE OUTSIDE THE GAME, np longer shall we be shackled by the confines of the sideboard and once more will we return to the glory of our former days becoming truly unconfined by all gamly shackles
fun fact: that's not actually why it's called scam, it's called scam cause before mh2 it already existed as a deck, but it was both really bad, and had a lot of really expensive cards for the format in it, so originally it was called scam cause playing the deck was scamming yourself, and then it later became a good deck and the name took on the meaning you described
Great to know!
Outside the game does mean in your binder, is in oficial events that is limited for the sideboard.
That is awesome
Tbh that DOES mean its sideboard only. Doesnt really matter whats happening at kitchen tables no? Technically i can play 50 lands a turn too if im not at events, or just draw whenever i want xD
I remember the days prior to exile where you could also get cards that were "removed from the game" (the old exile text).
@@AgaresOaks The best is to wish in Shaharazad while in a sub game.
@@ich3730 You can't, since even kitchen table magic is limited by the comprehensive rules of the game. If you want to play 50 lands a turn, you're not playing MtG any more. The comprehensive rules explicitly state what "outside the game" means in both constructed play (your sideboard) and casual play (your entire collection).
why have we not seen a lands analysis video, it would be *very* information to them while also showing off a massive part of the game
That’s a great idea
Scion Draco can be interacted with by removing the enchantment or with Sacrifice Effects such as Sheoldred’s Edict, Pick Your Poison or Angraths Rampage. In combo matchups you even board out the Leyline of the Guildpact for a faster clock and additional hate pieces.
Yep!
I love how your explaining everything so easily whereas in YGo vids you basically have to bend ur brain backwards to find a common ground with casual lingo😂😂😂
Yea exactly lol
Karn is walking Triple Tactic Thrust
Correct!
its interesting that he used Scam as an example of a tier 2 deck as its only tier two now becuase cards were recently ( as in a few months ) banned from it.
And it's still arguably just as good as zoo. For the sake of making the video, you can definitely say zoo is the best of these three but for the sake of metagame analysis/abstract power level discussion/prepping for the format/etc, they're effectively the same tier (in my opinion).
Heck, I'd even say winning the die roll is more impactful than the relative power level of these decks.
I’m a modern player and I couldn’t even tell you which is which lol. I think it’s Domain, Tron, Scam but I’m not entirely sure cause I don’t play online and my shop doesn’t have any of these decks.
If MTGGoldfish data is to be trusted, Scam and Domain are nearly tied in meta usage. This was a tough one to call what is best.
I feel like all 3 of these decks are popular rn lol
Entered! And I just KNEW first was going to be Tron, when you said three cards that go together. Hah
Thanks for entering!!
There's a typo in the description, it says he's guessing how good "Yu-Gi-Oh cards" are
Fixed, thanks!
Jame: *mentions three cards that work together and basically do the same thing*,
Me: _My Tron Senses are tingling_
I don't even play modern ;_;
Were they successfully tingled??
As someone who only knows commander format, I was almost as lost as your guest here. Though I too thought the 'scam' deck was the strongest. Hitting card advantage is generally always powerful across most games. But I stand corrected in this case. But like I said, I only know commander format.
this was a tough matchup. all three decks are incredibly strong, making it very hard for your guest to figure out which one has the edge.
but he showed that he has what it takes to become a great player. he spotted the synergies very quickly and understood exactly what makes something strong anf what isn't as relevant
Yep!!
Grief + Not Dead After all isn't card advantage. You're exiling a card to pitch and casting Not Dead to take to cards from their hand. That's 2 for 2, yeah. But then you're left with the original creature card you cast, which "cost" you a card/ is a card in itself. So you're even.
I play magic and I was surprised by the end. Wow.
Thanks for watching!
It's funny to me how now, only three months later, the Meta has changed so much that Tron is way ahead of the other two Archetypes now, and the only one close to where it used to be...
(In other words, fuck MH3 and the bird in particular)
But I beat the bird last night 😅
"There isn't anything that gets things out of exile"
Litterly showed Karn the great creator the card before. :D
That’s specifically artifacts and Karn is the only card that can do that (for the most part) lol
@@TheOneJameYT yeah, but I thought it was funny. Not a diss or something. It probably is the only thing that does that, and yet is rarely used for that part of the ability.
I love how you make him compare three tier 1 decks in Modern right now.
Thanks!
8:57 "You may reveal a card you own outside of the game" ? It doesn't say "sideboard" so you should be able to bring any card you possess with this hahahahaha
In causal play, yes. I’m tournaments, there is an additional rule that limits it to your sideboard
@@matthewcolosi7606 Hi Tournaments. Sorry, I had to.
I admittedly haven’t played magic in a long time, but is spending 3 mana on the map really that steep, if you are gaining 4 additional mana per turn?
Nope!
my man the best deck in modern is Tron. Zoo is currently the most dominant because it is meta warping, but Tron also just eats it alive. Tron eats the format alive, only a few decks can really stand toe to toe with a great Tron player. Especially on a nut draw, that deck is an uphill slog.
Do this with pioneer next time.
Rakdos Vampires tier 1
Izzet sizzors tier 2
UW lotus field control tier 3
It was fun being on your show again Jame! Unfortunately I haven't had time to really stream so I haven't been on Twitch as of late, but I might start streaming extremely late for all of those who'd be interested in watching over at www.twitch.tv/hoshiroe or if you all have any somewhat unique ideas on some UA-cam content you'd like to see feel free to leave them below.
Always a pleasure having you!
a funny one bonus one for that format: one land of each type. guess if the deck is good or bad.
Yea that’s a good idea
I mean outside of tournament play, Outside the Game does work like lemme fetch my tradebinder...
As someone that hasnt finished the video yet but with a bit of magic experience that 3rd archetype has to be tier two and the funny thing is if you have leyline on the board the game literally becomes like yugioh for you
small correction: the grief + not dead after all combo is a +0, not a +1, as you are not actually _gaining_ the reanimated grief since ... you already had it. granted, you are going +1 on _field_ advantage on top of going +0 in card advantage while gaining both hand knowledge and ripping your opponent's two best cards, it's just that that's you gaining a buttload of tempo over your opponent while keeping your resources equal
... i mean, technically there _is_ the wicked role token, but that's really more of of a way of doing an indefinitely lingering effect in a game that doesn't really have those, so it really is the most "technically" +1 unless you also happen to be running some kinda enchantment eater that can make the token's existence actually tangible
The opponent loses 2 cards and we are losing 1 Not Dead After All in total cards on field and hand. It’s a +1.
@@TheOneJameYT how're we reanimating grief if we're evoking it via not dead after all
For some reason I overlooked the exiled black card! Not sure why lol. If something cared about the Role token being there it would be a +1 but that’s pretty rare.
Evoke also makes you sacrifice it
Correct
There are actually 6 types of Basic lands. Wastes exist for a while...
Technically, and unfortunately, if you take a gander at a wastes, it does not have a land type other than "Basic Land", so there is not 6 types
@@maddoxbundy4462 There is no "waste" type?
@@OrdemDoGraveto Nope, Wastes is not a basic land type. Look at the type line of Wastes compared to the other 5 basics
@@alicetheaxolotl I stoped playing before wastes were introducted. I just saw that they were colerless basic mana. I assumed it counted as a new land type.
I was wondering how would you categorize an archetype in magic terms.
I know you just went with like magic decks in general, but for a seocnd I thought you'd be showing like draft color archetypes that went on to have some success.
Like how in Ikoria, Boros Cycling was a real deck.
That’s a great idea
Give shadow some love....
I'd love to do that deck for one of these in the future
Been watching all your vids recently! Shot you a subscribe keep it up brotha
Thanks!!
Me who just watched Card Market's video on Mono Black fighting 3 great magic decks. :P hehe
I'm not really sure "archetype" is even really the right word for mtg's card classifications, since tribe/tribal is the game's equivalent to what yugioh would call an archetype. It would usually denote cards with explicit naming conventions and interactions with those that share parts of their name as opposed to their type, or if they mention a card of that name in their text. I'd consider the Jurasic Park Owen/Blue Partner stuff archetypal, but cards like, say, the Eldrazi tend to care specifically about being colorless or having the Eldrazi type more-so than anything with Eldrazi in the name. Idk, I feel like its like trying to fit a rhombus into a square hole. They're pretty damn close, but different enough to where they probably shouldn't be used in the same connotations
I titled it like that because the Yugioh videos are also called that, and I want the same people to watch this video too
Interesting way of handling this. I do think some of the card selections and explanations were a little misleading and gave him the wrong impression, and I've seen people here in the comments repeating these misconceptions.
For example, it seemed like he got the impression the Tron deck is entirely about getting to Karn and using him to toolbox, when actually the concept of "Tron decks" long predates him and was coined to describe decks that generated huge amounts of Colourless Mana to power out giant Colourless threats, and the Karn toolbox is also used in many other decks, but rarely as the main win condition (at least after Mycosynth Lattice got banned). And since he didn't really know what kind of useful Artifacts you could put in your sideboard, he didn't have the context to judge how good the toolbox strategy is anyway. So showing Karn was a bad idea, I think. I would have shown another giant Colourless Creature instead, something like Wurmcoil Engine or Cityscape Leveler or Sundering Titan. That, or another way of finding the Lands, like Ancient Stirrings or Sylvan Scrying.
Similarly, only mentioning Fetch Lands and Dual Lands and Triomes briefly at the very end seems to have left him with the impression that the Domain deck is all-or-nothing and needs Leyline Of The Guildpact in order to function at all, hence his assessment of it as a "gimmick deck that relies on one card", when it's really the opposite: a deck that rewards you for playing with the basic game mechanics that everyone already uses. I can see how someone who doesn't understand how Lands are played, especially in this format, might not realize how easy it is to get Domain at least partway powered up - remember that the Domain decks that are also dominant in Standard were also able to function before the Leyline released with a much more limited pool of multi-Type Lands and Land fetching. Also, when you were discussing Ragavan and his Treasures and Mana in that section, I don't think you ever mentioned that your Lands being made every Type means they can Tap for every Colour of Mana.
If you wanted do more of this and continue the theme of currently or recently good Modern decks, my first idea when I saw people suggesting rating Magic archetypes was one that's been a format all-star for a while now that I feel like should be easy for Yu Gi Oh players to evaluate: Izzet Murktide. It has a fairly simple and straightforward gameplan that shouldn't require too much outside context like some of these had issues with, and it involves a lot of stuff Yu Gi Oh players should be familiar with: card draw, using the Graveyard as a resource, playing a lot of cards in one turn, and ending with a giant powerful dude who's summoned and powered up by using your other cards as a resource. I would show some combination of Scalding Tarn, Ragavan, Dragon's Rage Channeler, Ledger Shredder, Mishra's Bauble, Preordain, Expressive Iteration, Lightning Bolt, Unholy Heat, Counterspell, Spell Pierce, and Murktide Regent.
Thank you very much for the feedback with deck and card selection. I have a grasp on Yugioh but MTG doesn’t really have clear-cut archetypes for the most part, so I was trying something new. I’ll try to improve on every MTG archetype/deck video from here on out.
I think of these Cards, the most core to Murktide are probably DRC, Murktide itself, Iteration, Counterspell, and either Tarn or Bauble.
@@TheOneJameYT Yeah, I mentioned in an earlier interaction in another video that it not having archetypes in the same way seemed like it would make it trickier to take the same approach, but I still think you did well with testing out a new format, I was just offering feedback which I know you've welcomed previously.
I actually first saw this reply when I was editing my original comment because I had another thought, which is that probably the best card for the Tron selection instead would have been Ancient Stirrings - I know Yu-Gi-Oh players love their in-archetype search effects and their consistency, and this one is basically an "Excavate" effect which is versatile in that can find part of the Land combo or one of your giant payoff threats or anything else you showed him in the video, so it would give more of an idea of how consistent the deck can be.
@@mb778_ I just listed all the options, but I think it's important to show the core build-around creatures and then show one of each of the different categories of spells it runs - counterspells, removal/damage, and card selection. Which one of each is less important, but you want to show the kinds of spells you put in it. Tarn and Bauble serve as extra context to show how easy it is to fill your Graveyard while also meeting the type requirement for Delirium. Of course, Bauble is also a free noncreature spell, making it easy to trigger the Surveil and Connive triggers from Darcy and birb man, which are the other way you fill up the Graveyard other than just casting spells normally while also drawing through your deck to get the other stuff you need, so it's all connected, which is part of what would make it such a cool archetype to see someone unfamiliar evaluate, but also a bit hard to narrow down to just five cards.
6:15
Wait, so Magic also has banishing face down? Does it function similar to yugioh as a "super super graveyard"?
Magic has “banish face down” but it’s not like yugiohs. Instead, in magic face up exile/banish is already a sufficiently “super super graveyard”. Where there are only like 5 cards that can bring things back from exile (and they are all really bad)
Cards in face down exile typically are sent there by an effect that will later return them to the game when a condition is met.
It does, but getting cards from exile is already very hard in magic in general. The face down exile tends to be more about keeping information hidden. For example, siphon insight is a card that lets you pick one of the top 2 cards from the top of your opponents deck, exile it face down and cast it later. The reason it's face down is so your opponent doesn't know what you picked, not to make it more inaccessible
Yep! And the Foretell mechanic
Tron and domain are both T1.
Is domain zoo better than scam in modern? Idk modern is "that weird formstci only watch when someone makes a weird deck in it" so idk, im a legacy "oh no another Delver opponent" boi and in that format scam seems to be one of THE most annoying things to ever exist?
scam was better in modern before they banned Fury.
Spoiler warning ***
Damn I was wrong xD I was with hoshiroe tho it seemed too gimmicky but it makes sense if you can make the game become yugioh that's pretty busted cause yugioh is busted but from someone that mainly plays commander that deck just seems like it wouldn't work also I thought grief would be broken because you have a copy of reflection of kiki jiki with your face on it lmao
I don't think many people know I have the kiki jiki token so I'm happy you spotted that!
Please show Neobrand to some yugioh player finally i NEED to see them see it and Fall in love immediately xd
Noted!
Tron Will gain good stuff with MH3
GREAT stuff!
@@TheOneJameYT yep. And I know some People hate Tron. But I love it. After all it's cheating big things big creatures it's kinda elegant to me like Lotus field in pioneer. I would prefer die against an Ulamog than against a Ragavan who snow ball
cannot believe sol lands are becoming a thing in modern
Isn't Scam currently performing the best based on MTGO Modern Challenges? Like the top performing deck in the format by a looong shot??
On some weekends yes, but in general the most results has been Domain for the last couple months
@@TheOneJameYT In the last month, scam has overtaken Domain again is back to being the most played deck.
They banned the wrong incarnation from Scam... Fury creates fast games, Grief creates non-games. Grief is also in the same color as the revival spells, improving consistency by reducing the required Red component in the deck. If you are going to ban only one of the two, as WOtC insisted on doing, you ban Grief!
12:09 You should answer at the end if the decks are considered good or not. So is this colorless deck Trand or whatever you called it considered good ? I don't like it much. I don't think it's very good. That Ulamog card seems broken though. You said they can block this and it has no trample but it is indestructible. Why would you even care when it sends 20 cards of their deck ? 3 Attacks at most and you win the game by decking them out. You don't care about points at that point. 10 Mana is obviously the problem but I remember a card called Channel ? Why bother with all those urza cards instead of using channel and bringing it very early in the game and since it can't be destroyed it wins you the game most of the time. Broken. But the deck doesn't seem good only that card does and it can be abused better in other decks that's what I think.
Channel is not legal in any competitive format except vintage, where it sees hardly any play.
@@JohnFromAccounting True , I thought it was legal in some formats but the card is too broken. Isn't there any similar card that can do the same in a way and summon an artifact creature fast ?
Unreal amounts of tron disrespect
Sorry to say but this ain't really an archetype, it does not have the same word stapled on sixteen places on all relevant cards. Also what is up with readable effects with no You can only use this effect randomly put in parentheses on the cards ,does MTG not know how to design cards? Do better...😅😅😅😂😂😂
In all seriousness I cannot call them archetypes with the name thing it is burned into my brain😂😂😂
Haha makes perfect sense
@@TheOneJameYT what does?
@@elvenatheart982 not being able to call them archetypes
@@TheOneJameYT yeah I really cannot, maybe synergies or decks
kindred decks would like a word
So there are lands called Triomes, okay? For example, there is Zagoth Triome, and it gives you Sultai mana... 😵💫🫨 I laughed because that prob meant nothing to him ... 😂
I said green blue black right after 🤣
tbh its kinda sad seeing the one ring mentioned as a part of the tron archetype, but karn liberated ( the most well known classic tron bomb ) doesnt even appear
Yea as someone who played tron for awhile, it’s also sad for me