Proto-Indo-European Deities
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- The Proto-Indo-European culture is what is behind the cultures and languages that make up the Indo-European family. These include, among others, the Celts, the Teutons, the Romans, the Greeks, the Balts, the Slavs, and the Vedic Indians. The Proto-Indo-Europeans are worth studying on their own, but they have the added advantage of helping to understand there descendant cultures and, for those interested in working with the religions of the descendant cultures, of filling in gaps in our knowledge of them.
Among the things that can be reconstructed for the Proto-Indo-Europeans are a number of deities. In this video, I discuss those, giving their names, their characteristics, the sort of people and things that are patrons of, and some of the evidence for how we know these things.
My time was too short to describe the deities completely, and to give the evidence for how we know about them. If you'd like to know more, you can go to my website, ceisiwrserith.com/, or read my book, Deep Ancestors, which can be purchased through my website
If you like what I do, please subscribe.
Linguists give Proto-Indo-European words in a phonemic form. To make them easier to pronounced, I've converted the names in the slides to their phonological form. So you can look them up more easily, though, I've given both the phonological and the phonemic forms (the latter in parentheses) in the list of slide sources below.
Map of Indo-European lands: commons.wikimed...
Hittite inscription: commons.wikimed...
Page from the Rig Veda: commons.wikimed...
Page from the Iliad: commons.wikimed...
Roman inscription: commons.wikimed...
Coligny calendar: commons.wikimed...
Dyḗus Ptḗr (*Dyḗus PtḗH2r): commons.wikimed...
Xáryomēn (*H2éri̯omēn): commons.wikimed...
Perkwū́nos (*PerkwúH3nos): commons.wikimed...
Diwós Sunú (*Diu̯ós SuHnū́): commons.wikimed...
Xákwōm Népōt (*H2ékwōm Népōt): commons.wikimed...
Yemós (*(H)iemós) and Mannus: commons.wikimed...
Páxusōn(*PéH2usō(n)): commons.wikimed...
Mēnōs: commons.wikimed...
Ɂéḱwonā (*H1éḱwoneH2): commons.wikimed...
Gwouwindā (*GwouwindeH2): commons.wikimed...
Xáusōs (*H2eusṓs): commons.wikimed...
Sawélyosyo Dhugətḗr(*SeH2u̯eli̯osi̯o DhugH2tēr): commons.wikimed...
Donu: commons.wikimed...
Westyā (*H2u̯estieH2): commons.wikimed...
Dhéǵhōm Mā́tr (*Dhéǵhōm MH2étṛ): commons.wikimed...
Kolyos: commons.wikimed...
That Perkwunos image with the lightning strike through the W is majestic
Thanks.
4:14 Slavs had a god called Perun. He was a god of thunders and lightnings. Balts' equivalent is Perkun.
Albanians had a similar god called "Perëndia", coincidentally he was a thunder-God too, after Christianity perëndia became synonym of the Christian God.
wow, I see that the etymology is uncertain, but I believe it's related.
In north west iberia the thunder god had twims, male and female. These might be the 2 tribes galaician and lusitano, which both language have comon ancestor.
@@xgamerx360x same in lithuanian
@@Ragnar638?
Its wonderfull to elements of modern languages in the names of the gods and goddesses,
Pater=Father
Dhugater=Daughter
I always thought the Germanic and Romance languages where different almost alien to each other, exept for some loanwords, but it turns out that they are more related than i realized.
check out the Celtic- italic theory, it theorizes that the Celtic languages are the closest languages to the Latin/ romance languages :)
in Sanskrit father= Pitr
son = sunus
daughter = duhitra
mother = matr
cow = gau
mouse = mus
three = tri
trinity = tridev
diety = dev
eight = asht
nine = nav
seven = sapt
cent = shat
percent = pratishat
Germanic and Romance languages are part of a big language family that includes languages like Persian, Greece, and Afrikaans and that's just one language family, there are about 35 language families including Afro-Asiatic which includes Hebrew and Arabic.
@@nromk afriakaans is a germanic language. It's a descendent of Dutch.
@@TheSiddharthCool mouse in old english was mus
Deyeus Pater = Dyaus Pitar
Xaryoman = Aryaman
Perkwunos = Parjanya
Xakwom Nepot = Apam Napat
Yemos and Mannus = Yama and Manu
Gwouwinda = Govinda
Xausos = Ushas
Donu = Danu
PEI and Vedic Equivalents.
Thank you!
Nothing gets more aryan by a god named aryaman
pie is still imaginary bro, on the other hand vedic names are written down.
I'm just getting started on my journey of connecting with these deities and this guide (and your website) have been very helpful resources, thank you. :)
You're welcome. It's always nice to hear that my work has been useful to someone. If you have any questions, you can contact me through my website.
All of the proto indo european gods are present in hindu vedic texts and vedas alone. So I became a hindu❤️😇
Bro, you should connect with psychiatrist.
Wikipedia says that the diwos sunu also survive in the anglo-saxon legend of hengest and horsa, who were said to have been the first anglo-saxons to conquer land in England.
Yes, Donald Ward argues that in The Divine Twins: An Indo-European Myth in Germanic Tradition. That's the best source on the Twins.
Wow, very intersting video. And very well presented. Thank you for the information :-) Keep up the good work!
Xakwom Nepot has similarity with Vedic Varuna, the God of Sea, Indian Navy has its name in its motto, he is the only deity that has some similarity with punitive God, dispenser of Moral law, with thousand eyes keeping watch over actions of men, and with thousand hands ties the wrongdoers with a string noose (Pash in Sanskrit), he is upholder of Cosmic Law called Rita.
😂 Cause of you I just found out I'm named after a male justice deity 😂 you sir made my day.
Xakwom Nepot is Apam Napat,the sun inside the waters.
I thought it was Rta, but after looking I see it’s transliterated as both Rta and Rita.
@@Ragnar638?
Herakles & Iolaus vs. the Hydra = Perkwunos & a human against the three-headed dragon? :-)
Ufthak1 Definitely.
And Indra against Vritra.
Alopex this is a thing called the chaoskampf I think
@@DurgeshYadav-ip1zr Also Perun vs Veles, Thor vs Jormungandr, hell even non-PIE mythologies like Susanoo vs Orochi (I think it was its name) and Baal vs a sea serpent.
@@manolomartinez5033 Yup, Krishna against a serpent too.
Our ancestors truly loved killing serpents / dragons. LOL!
Feels strange to know other than Hinduism, this hugely important part of our development as humans is dead completely replaced by judeo-christian ideology
The Proto-Indo-European religion in the form of modern Paganism, is called Swedhónā, which I follow along with Religio Romana. Swedhónā is from swēdhus "custom." There is also another form of PIE religion called Deiwism, from deiwós "god." :)
Moonspell Bloodlines (The Virtuous Pagan) Yes but its, well neopaganism. Its an estimate of what could have been, rather than what was and is so to speak. Also I was wrong, hinduism and Zoroastrianism both are the remaining religions.
Dizzy Blu
No, it's not a form of Neopaganism. Rather it's a form of polytheistic reconstructionism. Reconstructionism is practicing the religion(s) of the ancients as close as possible. Neopaganism is beliefs like Wicca and the New Age movement. I don't consider my religions Religio Romana and Swedhónā as "Neopaganism." To be honest I don't like the term "Neopaganism."
Moonspell Bloodlines (The Virtuous Pagan) okay well you see what I mean "reconstruction" its guesswork, its estimation. Im not knocking your religion and have utmost respect for it, but it doesnt take away from what has been lost
Dizzy Blu
You are right, much of it was lost. But there is still lots of information that has survived (depends on which branch of Paganism you are referring to). In the case of Roman polytheism, there are lots of terms that describe sacred things, rituals, practices, as well as different religious authority positions.
But with Ovid's Fasti, there are only six months out of the whole year that describe the festivals. There are festivals for the other six, but the information about them is scarce.
Xaryomen has similarity with Dhanvantari, medical doctor of Vedic Gods or Devas and "Dhan" also means wealth in Sanskrit, at Dhanteras before Dipawali festival it is auspicious to buy household goods like utensils, jewelry etc (perfectly explains his status as God of merchants and exchange)
RAVINDRA SINGH BASERA It's Hindu equivalent is aryamaa (aryaman in vocative case)
@@an1rb yes exactly i was gonna say the same. He is the Indo Iranian God Aryoman
Bro,he is referring to vishnu..
All of the proto indo european gods are present in hindu vedic texts and vedas alone. So I became a hindu❤️😇
Name of the Gods in Fernando López-Menchero's Modern Indo-European (based on Middle Indo-European, after the Anatolian split, which what I use):
Dyḗus Pətḗr
Áryomṇ
Perqū́nos
Deiwós Sunú
Áqōm Népōt
Yemós (Wélṇos I think would also be the god of the underworld) and Manús
Pā́usōn
Mḗntōts
Eqōnā
Couwíndā
Ausōsā
Sā́welyosyo Dhugtḗr (or the male Sun god Sā́welyos)
Dánu or Dānu
Westyā
Dhéǵhōm Mātḗr
Kolyós
I also added some other gods to the pantheon, such as:
Ecnis (God of Fire, Agni)
Nebhos (Primordial sky god before Dyḗus)
Diwonusos (God of wine)
Əsnātis (Goddess of agriculture)
Pḷwiyā (Goddess of meadows, prairies, steppes)
Noqtis (Goddess of night)
Dyēua (Goddess of day)
Diwónā (Goddess of women and marriage)
Bhṛǵhṇtyās (Goddesses of light, poetry, youth and victory)
Meinérwā, Seroswotis (Goddess of wisdom and science)
Ǵheyā (Goddess of winter)
Álkā (Goddess of strength in battle)
Némestis (Goddess of retribution)
Leghskā (Goddess of laziness)
Daitis (God of time)
Dekos (God of virtue)
Swopnos (God of sleep)
Bhā́gos (God of fortune, wealth, apportionment)
I have other gods in mind as well.
The basic list is the sane as mine, and since it took a lot of research in a lot of sources to come up with it I'm guessing they got it from me. The idea of a modern IE intrigues me, but I avoid it because I'm afraid I'll confuse it in my memory with the ancient language and end up making mistakes. For instance, it doesn't maintain the laryngeals, which I maintain survived to the end of the PIE period.As for the extra ones, some of them I have on a list of deities that were possibly PIE, although not reconstructed firmly enough for me to feel comfortable saying they were definitely PIE. I think that Bhṛǵhṇtyā is a strong possibility (it shouldn't have the "s" on the end, since the long [a] is the feminine nominative ending). Bhā́gos is a possibility, although a weak one. The others seem to be either created from PIE words or reconstructed from Greek or other individual IE traditions, but not enough for reconstruction. Because the IEs divinized abstractions, it's fine within PIE ideology to "make up" (discover) deities based on PIE words, as long as it is remembered that that doesn't mean that the PIEs had such a deity. So while all of these deities can fit into a PIE system (provided the names are properly formed, something I haven't checked), without more evidence it would be incorrect to call them PIE deities.
The Antiquity Goth The Antiquity Goth care to provide any archaeological evidence for these deities you say people once worshiped? For example, Leghskā?
These are gods that I proposed, and just my hypothetical ideals. I think such gods (or at least personifications) of human emotions and actions existed in PIE times. They are seen in Greek and Sanskrit traditions (Like Aergia, Greek personification of sloth and laziness. Sanskrit Prajñā, which can Wisdom personified as a goddess, or probably an epithet for Saraswati). I would think PIE would have something similar, like Leghskā I took from the adjective leghskós "lazy."
Most of the information of a modern Indo-European comes from "A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Third Edition" by Carlos Quiles and Fernando López-Menchero of the Dnghu Association. Their attempt is to use Late Indo-European as a modern living language and a lingua franca of the European Union. I like the idea, but I too try to avoid making mistakes. Besides Sā́welyosyo Dhúghtēr (or Sāwḷ), wouldn't the PIE peoples also have a male Sun deity Sā́welyos and/or have a female moon deity Louksnā (Lowksneh₂)? I myself revere a male Sun deity Sā́welyos, since the PIE peoples may have worshiped a female sun deity then I probably will do that.
PIE sóh₂wl̥ (sun) is neuter, so no wonder that Indo-Europeans have sun and moon gods of both genders.
Nabh =sky
Swamp = sleep story
In Hindi or Sanskrit
@@doforget399 Nabha yes. Proto-Indo-European nebhos means cloud, but words change meaning over time. However I have learned more about Proto-Indo-European religion since writing this post, and the sky god before Dyēus Pətḗr has a different name.
Pitru =father pita (hindi)
Matru= mother Mata (hindi ma)
Duhita =daughter beti (hindi)
Putra =son beta (hindi)
All of the proto indo european gods are present in hindu vedic texts and vedas alone. So I became a hindu❤️😇
@@Ragnar638 because it is original
Gwouwinda reminds me of one of the names of Krishna, which is Govinda, "the Cowherd".
That's one of the sources of the reconstruction.
It would be more accurate to say that the Indo-European group includes most, but not all (the Dravidian languages, such as Tamil, aren't IE), of the languages and cultures of India. And yes, at least when we are talking about early Indian mythology it explains why there are such similarities with Greek, Norse, and Slavic mythology.
because Krishna was also god of Indo Aryans
Govinda was actually a name of Indra.
@@DurgeshYadav-ip1zr Where did you read that?
Thank you so much for your work. This is so profound and important!
Thanks, I'm glad you like it. I think that Proto-Indo-European religion was very profound, especially the concepts of reciprocity (which I call the "ghosti-principle") and the Xartus, which is the web of interconnections that form the structure of reality. (For more information on the Xartus, see www.ceisiwrserith.com/pier/xartusspeculations.htm.)
@@Ragnar638?
The chief Lithuanian & Latvian God is ''Perkunas'' (the Thunder God: compare Slavic ''Perun''.) whose other name is Dundulis (Compare Germanic ''Donner''). His name Perkunas is derived from an old Indo-Germanic word for ''Oak'': Perkus (in Latin ''Quercus''). The Sky God in Lithauanian is ''Dievas'': Latvian ''Dievs'', Latin ''Deus'', Greek ''Theos'', Old Germanic ''Tiu, Tyr''.
Greek "Theos" no but Greek "Dias" yes.
@@jasonmuniz8802 Greek "Dias" no, but actually Greek "Zeus" yes (yes, that Zeus). Also, remember that the full name was "Dyews Phtēr": This became Old Italic "Diouspatēr", becoming Latin "Iuppiter" (Jupiter).
@@Copyright_Infringement same thing el.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Δίας_(μυθολογία)
Sanskrit Dyaus.
The Thunder-God in Albanian is called **PERENDI**.
interesting, thank you
in our folk songs sons of god and daughters of sun are quite often mentioned.
usually they interact in playful manner and are about to get married.
greetings from Latvia.
Greetings in return. I wish I had more information on Latvian Paganism, but unfortunately I haven't been able to find much in English. I'll keep trying; so far what I've seen is interesting.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 this seems good and fitting translation of one folk song, only this time Mēness is taking daughter of Sun, though sons of God are mentioned also.
i found the translation in description of this video: ua-cam.com/video/3tLn-h5lNV0/v-deo.html
final verse seems to be added from another folk song,
link to the original: dainuskapis.lv/daina/33865-0-Saule-Meness-Auseklis-zvaigznes-Dieva-deli-un-Saules-meitas
Migla, migla, rasa, rasa,
Tās man labu nedarīj'-
Rasā manas kājas mirka,
Miglā nozūd kumeliņš
Nokrīt migla, nokrīt rasa
Atrod savu kumeliņ;
Atrod savu kumeliņ
Pie Mēneša namdurvīm
Mēness ņēma Saules meitu,
Aicin' mani vedībās,
Kā es jāšu vedībāsi
Nesedlotu kumeliņ'
Saule deva zelta sedlus
Mēness sudrab' iemauktiņs',
Nu es varu droši jāti
Dieva dēlu pulciņā
Krustiem auga kokiem saknes,
Krustiem zvaigznes debesīs,
Sāniem jāja Dieva dēli,
Krustiem tek'a kumeliņ'.
Oh fog, oh dew
Neither one was good for me
The dew dampened my feet
The fog made me lose my steed
The fog lifted, the dew lifted
I found my horse
I found my horse
At the Mēness's(Moon) doorstep
The Mēness took the daughter of Saule(Sun)
And invited me to a wedding
How can I ride to a wedding
On a horse without saddle?
The Saule gave me a golden saddle
The Mēness a silver bridle
Now I can boldly ride
Together with the sons of Dievs
Crosswise grow the roots of trees
Crosswise stars shine in the sky
The sons of Dievs(god) ride next to me
Crosswise galloping our horses
Awesome! Thanks so much! Do you know if the tune is the traditional one? I'm interested in traditional music from different IE cultures. Is this a Latvian daina? The words of the daina are fascinating. It's always hard to pick out the Pagan elements from them, though; it's like they've been put into a code. I wonder if the references to crosswise at the end, linking tree roots, the pattern of the sky, and the path of the horses of the sons of Diev (and perhaps, then, of the horse of Diev himself) refer to the pattern of the Cosmos, the Xartus. I have a hunch they do. At the very least, the mention of them together express an idea that the gods (at least the sons of Diev) follow a celestial way, and that the pattern of that way is reflected on earth. Cool stuff. Again, thank you.
@@hattifattener1 I don't if this relates and goes back into PIE but in noth Portugal a comom last name is Meneses, and no one knows the meaning or why.
There has been a welcome change in the past twenty years or so, and a lot of progress has been made in challenging Eurocentric paradigms in various fields in the social sciences. Much of the progress has been made in bits and pieces, and there are no cogent multi-cultural frameworks and perspectives yet in most fields. This progress has largely been achieved due to the fact that people from different countries from around the world have taken up positions in eminent and prestigious American and European universities, and have raised objections and concerns on important issues. Thus, we can see a multicultural perspective emerging on different issues (big change even from the year 2000, when many obsolete paradigms of consequence to different cultures remained unchallenged) However, solving a complex puzzle such as that of Indo-European origins is a different ballgame altogether, and requires not only an inter-disciplinary approach, but also a multi-cultural one. What experiential knowledge would an Indian national have of Iceland, Albania, or Kazakhastan? This is easier said than done and requires persistence and dedication. Such endeavours may take decades and will call for proficiency in many different languages, knowledge of different cultures and a thorough grasp on different regional histories as well. I still see this as a distant pipedream, as few researchers have even thought on these lines, as yet. However, raising awareness may expedite things a bit. It is now time to kick start that process! (Note the debate between JP Mallory who represents a more mainstream position and Sir Colin Renfrew)
thank you for giving equal time to the goddesses and gods! so often there is an over-focus on the male deities and only a bare mention of the female deities. thanks for modelling gender balance in your work - so important for the wholeness of us all!
You're welcome.
You are a reified and resplendent worker. You reside in my heart. Nagahari
Thank you very much.
I have many professors at my Uni who claim that Romans and Greeks did not actually worship their gods and were, wait for it. Atheists. As a Christian I have no side in this, however I think they study these cultures so much that they want to make a Post-Hegelian dialogue with them; where the professors follow the older philosophy, but insert their own neo-religious ideology into the previous culture. The purpose of this is to bridge the past and make themselves feel better about their own beliefs.
One has to look no further than India to tell them that they are wrong since it was and is close to the same religion the Romans and Greeks followed.
There were Roman and Greek atheists, but they were few (although the number grew towards the end of Paganism). And even if any of them didn't believe in their gods, to say that they didn't _worship_ them is absurd. Do they mean to say that the festivals and sacrifices we have records of didn't happen?
@@ceisiwrserith2224 they interpret a few select texts to be the end all be all of roman/greek religion which that they as a soceity were atheists. Or that their philosophers atheists.
Its basically about feeding their personally ego, like how some african americans claim egyptians were black.
One problem is that academics, especially those outside the classics field, concentrate on texts, and maybe some of the prettier statues and mosaics, and don't look enough at archaeology, including inscriptions such as calendars.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 Yes well he is an old man who is pretty stubborn in his beliefs. He knows a lot of PIE languages and even Hungarian. Quite frankly this older generation of academics are not going to influence anyone outside of the college campus.
cfroi08 your professors don’t want the Christian narrative anywhere, I beleive they will change it to get the result they want, the narrative for idol gods starts in Anatolia when the ark landed at Mt Ararat, when the Tower of Babel was built at Babylon the idol gods that were invented there traveled all round the world , but were given different names, isn’t it interesting that when God changed all the languages to confound the builders of Babel he sent them all over the world and one language became many, the professors are, I suspect accidentally giving great evidence for the bible, the EU beleive, they have built their own Tower of Babel complete with idol gods, Europa and Zeus , I don’t think they have noble reasons.
At 2:30 you mentioned that the symbol of lightning/thunder was not originally connected with Zeus and Jupiter, instead they got it from "the near eastern chief Gods". I myself have been wondering about that change and the reason why it occured. Could you try to explain which near eastern Gods you were referring to?
No, he is wrong. The symbol is connected with vedic god Indra
All of the proto indo european gods are present in hindu vedic texts and vedas alone. So I became a hindu❤️😇
@@Ragnar638?
Okay, I'm now curious if it's possible to connect the Neolithic European Gods, with Middle Eastern pagan deities. By Neolithic Deities, I'm meaning the gods whom can't possibly be reconstructed as indo-European deities :)
This may shed some light on the issue ua-cam.com/video/WjYpghe1bCc/v-deo.html
Neolithics were anatolians, that was europe for thousands of years, not middle east, we simply lost territory
@@algonzalez6853 anatolians are more related to West Asian populations than they are to European... And no, anatolia was always part of the middle East.
@@BaranLordofLight i'll need a source for that claim. I am not talking about geography but what a people inhabited
@@daraarmand1221 thats literally about indoeuropeans
10:16 A horse goddess named Epona? Now I know where Nintendo got that name.
maybe the three goddesses were also PIE goddesses? :D
The name Westyā (* H2u̯estieH2) is similar to Hestia. Hestia was the caretaker of the hearth, travelers, newlyweds and orphans. Hestia represented the moral idea of purity and durability of family life. The description of the goddess Donu is similar to that of the Greek goddess Demeter.
Xakwom neput the god of seas. To me “Neput” sounds like “Neptune”. And with the first God having the IE word for father isn’t really new. I mean even Illyrians used “Baba” in Baba Tomor for their king of gods.
Perkwunos reminds me of the Kievian Rus God called Perun.
+Waya Kamejima Perun is Indian Barun or varun. we still worship in Hinduism. Now after reading history I came to know why our scripture says that entire world was vedic and peace was prevailing.
+piyush abhishek singh Varun(a) in Vedic related to Uranus
+piyush abhishek singh The whole world was not Vedic just from Afghanistan and north India (Pakistan implied)
pabslondon
It's true that the Vedas only apply to Hindustan, but the ideas in them were older even and date back to a time when European and Hindustani peoples were one tribe, so it is a good thing to compare to old European Religions to understand them better. And because of Buddhism, many Hindu ideas were adopted into other religions in Asia, like reincarnation, some Gods, and concepts of purity.
Yeah then we are talking Proto-IndoEuropean either in the Ukraine or Anatolia depending on which hypothesis you go with.. but Vedic specifically refers to what evolved from the above later in Afghanistan and North India
Best video on UA-cam, Hail brother!
High praise. Thanks!
>Vlad >Pagan
Queen Semiramis claimed that her dead husband, King Nimrod is reincarnated as the Sun God. According to gtasoul, Nimrod is also the chief diety Lord Shiva in Hinduism. And, Semiramis is worshipped as Athena, Britannia, Durga goddess etc. in various IndoEuropean cultures.
What is "gtasoul"?
Dyeus Pater = jupiter
Yep.
Hey, ive beel looking into Paganism for a fee days now, ive been atheist for quite a while because i didnt feel like a monotheistic religion made sense. But while thinking on it i kinda figured polytheism seems more plausible. The only thing I’m curious about is how you got into Paganism, what made you convert and how you practice your religion. Do you believe in these gods? Very interesting topic!
Monotheistic made religion magical, like looking fairytales but religion like Hinduism ( which takes outside of earth and solar systems actually make sense even many indo European thing is now part of scientific theory and law )
Like this ua-cam.com/video/t2DNAE7fkaY/v-deo.html
Very well done.
Hail our people!
Dyéus sounds a lot like Deus to me, and Ptér feels like a linguistic ancestor to Vater or Father. Am I on to something or is it just my 21st century ears listening to Upper-Paleolithic words?
Dyeus and Deus both come from *deiwos, "god." Pter is the source of "father" and _vater_. So you got it right.
Survivorgroup1 "Jupiter" is actually also a cognate to Dyéus Ptér
No you are right. Kudos! You have a sharp linguistic ear. :)
@MICHAEL GOLD Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
@JKL Yes :) this is because of the so called deus otiosus. By not being completely transcendent nor posessing any meaningful attributes, beside those that are purely cosmological or helpful only for a limited, "historical" ( but mythical ) time, the primordial or semi-primordial god loses any importance for the current cosmos ( by being a Sky god, he also cannot get the new demon statute ).
Mircea Eliade did a pretty extensive study about this subject, showing how it happens in various religions.
What Do You have To say about the Dravidian Origins and Their Religious and cultural practices..?
That isn't something I've researched very much. It might be relevant for the study of the development of Hinduism, but it's tough enough to deal with all the Indo-European cultures. Sorry.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 Thanks for Your Honest Opinion 👍, I'm From South India and There Seems To be A very Intense Cultural Difference between The Indo Aryan Culture and Dravidian Culture Inspite of Thousands of Years of Evolution, that Difference is Still very much alive. It's Very Surprising that the Indo Aryan culture couldn't Completely absorb the Dravidian one. Thanks Looking for replying 👍
@Indic Religions My View is that people have their own Beliefs and Customs, I am A Muslim myself but I respect everyone else as my Religion teaches me. You can co exist as long as Neither of them creates problems for each other. When politics and Power dominance gets involved, that's when things go crazy. There you have it.
@Guru Human I'm very Happy being a Muslim and a South Indian, if you are Triggered by my comment, I can't help it. Just stating facts 😃
I appreciated all the detail here, but it sounds more like a devotional guide than an historical study.
I wanted it to be both. I work with these deities, and hope to encourage others to do so, but I also want there to be good scholarly evidence for what say. Perhaps one day I'll make a video from a purely academic point of view.
the beetle-faced god in ancient Egyptian religion -> Kheper
german word for beetle -> Kaefer/Käfer/Kaepher (exact same pronunciation)
Coincidence?
Yes. Egyptian "Kheper" means "emerge, come into being," why German "käfer" likely comes from Germanic ǵebh- “eat, chew," which is cognate to English "chaff." This sort of thing happens all the time in languages. There are only a certain number of sounds, and a large number of concepts that have to be expressed by them, so coincidences are to be expected. I've seen this sort of thing happen between languages from New Guinea and languages from Europe, with _no_ chance of the words being related. We should also add in the fact that Egyptian wasn't written with vowels, and that Egyptologists therefore put "e's" where they don't know what vowel belongs there, so "khepher" isn't likely to have been the way the word was pronounced.
Is there any evidence of a Proto- Indo-European trickster god like Loki?
No. But there's no evidence that Loki was ever worshiped; at best he was a character in some myths, at worse a literary invention. Neither of those is likely to have a PIE origin.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 Thanks for replying so promptly. I had not thought before that although Loki appears as one of the community of gods in Norse Myth I do not know if there is any evidence of his having temples or being an object of worship like a god.
@@legalvampire8136 there is one Upendr(Vishnu) in rigveda who is the youngest brother of Lord Indra . And he is like Loki in much sense.
very interesting.
LANGUAGE PERSIAN father =Pahder Mother=mader Brother=brader Bazaar =bazar two 2=Doo۲ sky=asman ……
merci is borrowing from french, like colloquial "thanks" in many languages today.
Well, Persian is Indo-European.
Bazaar sounds like a loan word to me.
Is there any way to access the transcript of this video?
+indianiecworld No, but on my website (www.ceisiwrserith.com) you'll find a page on PIE deities with lots more information than I put in this video.
Gowinda is another name for the Black God Krishna. Also cows were not brought by yamnaya or bmac! So similar a similar God must hve already existed before.
forgive me if I'm mistaken but it seems that you present Indo-European as only European. when it revision people from Europe all the way to Northern India. way is that?
Yes, the IEs extend into India. I didn't want to spend much time on the descendant deities; this video is meant as a presentation, not an argument, so I didn't include very much of the evidence. If you'd like to know more, see my website at ceisiwrserith.com/pier/deities.htm.To be fair, though, I did mention some Vedic material, such as the Aśvins, Uṣas, and the gārhapatyagni, and I quote from the Rig Veda.
Ceisiwr Serith ok I get you thank you for the response.
thank you!
You're welcome.
I think there is also the possible reconstruction of Worunos. The god of the nightsky, cosmic order and wisdom.
I go up and down with him. As far as I know, the only linguistic reflexes of him are Ouranos and Varuna, and 1. there are lots of Indic/Hellenic isolgosses, so I don't trust things I find in only those two places, and 2. I've seen arguments, which I'm not competent to understand, that the names don't line up line up as cognates. I also think that Dyeus Pter is a god of cosmic order and wisdom, which makes two of the three functions you suggest redundant. But it does seem odd that there wasn't a god of the night sky. But then the only night time things that can be reconstructed to PIE are the moon and Venus (the morning star/evening star, so even in this case we're talking about not so much as a nocturnal thing, but a twilight one), there being no stars or other planets that can be reconstructed, so maybe the PIEs just weren't interested in the night sky. Maybe they didn't consider it divine, since it didn't shine (*deiwos "god" < *diw- "shine"), or maybe they didn't like to incorporate something dark into their pantheon, just as they didn't like the dark north. Who knows.
For now, I'll withhold judgment on Worunos, neither accepting nor rejecting him.
Serbian main god was PERUN.Albanian PERENDI shows his origin - per ENT - he was Ant race, came from fluded Ant Land Iz. Dondolo - is famous Italian black nobility. Perun's name origin becomes from the word FURUN, which means Agni/oganj/ fire. Furuna is the place were a bread is fried. It is called PERKWUNOS as well. Perkin - percin is tail of hear, hust like PERO - feather. Wunos - vuna means wool. Woooly hair colected in tail. Curtenly he was not a God, but so called God (Elohim in the Bible). He was just an old Ant who came here with his advanes technology (thunder technology - Vimana). People from this part of the Earth thought they were gods, so advanced unlike them. Let us brake misteries, once for all!
No Cernunnos?
Not specifically, alas. He may be a reflex of Páxusōn, however. You can read my argument for that here: www.ceisiwrserith.com/therest/Cernunnos/cernunnospaper.htm. If you want to know more about Páxusōn, go to my website here: www.ceisiwrserith.com/pier/deities.htm.
Great Channel. Thanks a lot...we will follow with inpatience for new videos.
SPASSIBO BOLYSHOE !!!
Thanks a lot. I'm working on two videos. One is on sources for research on the Indo-European sacred drink, and the other is on deities for an American Paganism. The first is mostly a question of getting around to filming it (I just have to do a little research); the second I've been working on the last few nights. Figure a month or so.Are there any particular topics you're interested in me doing a video on? (This goes for my other viewers too.) I can't guarantee I'll make one, but I'd be interested in hearing.
Where is Svarog and Swastika? This sounds more like Hellenic and Celtic culture.
+indianiecworld I was only dealing with Proto-Indo-European deities, and since the swastika is neither solely IE nor a deity, it wasn't relevant. As for Svarog, I'm not aware of any deities from other IE cultures that he's cognate with, so he can't be traced back to PIE times.
Thanks for clarifying! I thought West-East resemblances came with Aryans in bronze age, but looks like they are much older.
ps: according to mainstream theories i know the indo-european languages originated in eurasian steppes (according to the map), but could that be that was only the satemisation of the PIE and the common language came with neolithic expansion? upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/IE_expansion.png
indianiecworld I don't know enough about the archaeology to have a firm opinion on that. Sorry.
+Ceisiwr Serith Svarog sounds like the Sanskrit word for Heaven Swar(a)g
Could it be said that north Indian and Europeans have genetic connection despite the ethnicities they absorbed with in themself, North Indian divided themself in to caste and mostly higher castes were the PIE descended so they didn't married out of the cast.
That's quite possible, but it would require genetic research to be sure. There has been a lot of work in genetics in recent years which compared genes to culture changes, and in most cases (but not all) what happened is that a small number of people conquered a larger one without replacing them genetically, so that most people in England aren't descended from the Anglo-Saxons but from the Celts and even the pre-Celts who were there before them. Another way that cultures change is when one culture has more prestige than another, so the one with lesser prestige starts to absorb things from the one with higher one. Witness today, where many aspects of American culture have been adopted by other ones. I suspect that in India both happened, with some militarily superior Indo-European entering the continent, and then their culture spreading through a combination of conquest and acculturation. Note that the southern, Dravidian areas of India are less Indo-European in their religion; the influence of the "invaders" decreased as they went. Since it is likely that the IE who entered India were a small minority, the amount of IE genes (in this case this doesn't mean genes that make someone an IE, simply the genes of the IE speakers who entered India) in the current mix in India must be very small. The same thing would be true throughout the rest of the IE world. So any genes that were present in the PIE homeland would be in a minority in the genomes of the current IE world. Remember, though, that "Indo-European" refers primarily to a linguistic group and secondarily a cultural one, but never to a genetic one. For instance, it could accurately be said that Blacks living in the US are Indo-Europeans, whereas the people in western China who are descended from speakers of the IE Tocharian languages but who now speak Turkic ones _aren't_ IEs. It's also possible that the PIEs themselves were a genetically heterogeneous group; the language may have spread throughout an area made up of peoples who adopted the PIE culture, and only _then_ spread out, meaning that there weren't any "Proto-Indo-European genes" (only in the sense of the genes shared by the speakers of Proto-Indo-European) to begin with.I can't stress too strongly, however, that "Indo-European" is not a genetic grouping. In fact, I made an entire video on that, ua-cam.com/video/VqVuwdibVsk/v-deo.html.Pardon this long rant. Bottom line: yes, there may be some genetic connections between India and Europe, but they are likely to be small and wouldn't matter in the greater scheme of things anyway.
Ceisiwr Serith yeah thats believable but we always have debate about this, weather we are originally indians or we came from somewhere else. We were taught that Dravidian people had civilization around Indus which were peaceful people and later destroyed by invaders from north who were warrior these warriors mixed theirs religion with the Dravidians while pushing them far south. Thus creating the Hindu religion and divided themselves in caste in which the priest and warrior clan was PIE people while businessmen, peasant and slaves were local and mixed people. They never allowed marriage out of ones caste. While South indian remained real Indians with least mix.
I agree with most of what you say, although I think the warlike nature of the migrating Aryans/IEs has been exaggerated. Many, or perhaps even most, of them were likely just migrating, rather than rampaging and conquering; that's a phenomenon observed elsewhere. It's highly possible that the people Indus-Valley civilization adopted the IE culture because, as possessors of more advanced technology, the IE culture had high prestige. From what I've seen (I'm away from my books right now, so I can't give resources), the caste system in IE culture was fluid, with it being possible to move from one caste to another, such as with the druids in Gaul and Ireland, with the rigid system in India being later, and not found in the Rig Vedic period. It could therefore have arisen from the intrusive IE system (although not existing previously), be a result of a Indus Valley ideas mixing with it, or be a reaction by the IEs to the presence of a group of people who were seen as inferior culturally and therefore had to be kept in their place. I certainly believe, however, the Hinduism is a result of a combination of IE religion, pre-IE religion, and new ideas and rituals developed after the mix. The real test of where the IEs who entered India were predominant, however, has to come from genetic data, bearing in mind that IE is a linguistic and cultural concept, not a racial one, and generic data can only show where the IEs who are prior to the IE-speaking people currently in India (who are therefore IEs) came from. Even in the Dravidian area, Sanskrit as a language has prestige, and IE-based practices and beliefs have, and are still, making inroads into Dravidian ones, so the process is still going on.It also has to be remembered that the pre-IE inhabitants of India, were not, of course, authochthonous. Since humans evolved in Africa, all of us who don't live there came from somewhere else - it's just a question of who got there first. Ever since we evolved we've been on the move.
Indus valley civilization was not technologically backward for its times. They had well planned urban cities with drainage, sewage, water systems. They had boats, maybe sailboats too. Oxen driven carts. However, they did not have horses which the Indo Europeans had. With regard to Sanskrit's prestige ... there are no active speakers of the language now. It is only used by the priests and in temple chants. But, many loan words were introduced by the priests into various Dravidian languages
Yes, High caste Indians and Europeans have genetic connections, same race of Caucasoids
How does the Manu and Yemo myth explain the origin of humanity? Manu and Yemo are the first men, but what about the first woman?
Interesting question, which as far as I know the PIE creation myth doesn't answer. In the Norse myth, a man and a woman come from the ice in the Great Gap, but I don't know about other myths, or if your question can be answered for the PIEs. I'll have to check out Bruce Lincoln's book on the subject (the only full-length treatment of it, although his theory has been generally accepted) and see if he has anything to say. Thanks for the question, and I'm sorry I can't answer it now.
Manu and Yemu are celestial beings and son of DyohPitra,
They Sacrifice the cosmic bull for the creation of the World.
After that Manu created them all.
In some sources Manu sacrificed Yama who became the king of the underworld.
PROTO- Indoeuropean is a perissology like PRO-INFLAMATORY meaning inflammatory.The concept "pro" is already contained in the prefix INflammatory.A perissology is a futile over precisation using a tautology or better a tautologic pleonasm. το αυτο λεγειν répéter, dire deux fois la meme chose
Could you explain in different words? I don't understand what you're trying to say.
@@ceisiwrserith2224
Contrary to the terse french, german,italian ,spanish languages, the american feels obliged to add a second, undue precisation.In stead of
Le rhumatisme est du à l' effet de cytochines inflammatoires
Americans say :
Rheumatism is due to the effect of PROinflammatory cytokines.
La langue des Ariens est la source du Grec, Latin,Allemand, et des langues slaves.
"The PROTOindo european Yamnaia culture is the source.."
Indoeuropéens already means: the first IndoEuropeans "protoindo european ( PIE )
Yamnaia " already means " culture of the Yama" the termination - aia is adjectival of Yama :the pit
To add Proto- to Indo Europeans is a perissology, a FUTILE precisation. These considérations are even more complicated considering that Europa was already occupyed by PRE -indoeuropeans (PIE,) like the Bascs , the Ligurians, the Libians who survived undisturbed by the arrival of the Indoeuropeans, and are recognizable to- day for having Rhesus- negative blood groups
Bascs : O Rh negative
Ligurians : A Rh negative. Ligurians are still numerous in the alpine valleys of nord- west Italy ( Lombardy Piemont and Liguria) with the Arno river as the south frontier to the Etruscans and later Indoeuropean Latin tribes.The Ligurians took their alfabet from the Etruscans and left us around 100 inscriptions in a preindoeuropean language, which are in comprehensible on the basis of indoeuropean languages..
Who is the diety for artists?
The problem is that the idea of "art" is fairly modern, so the PIEs wouldn't have had artists. They would have had artisans, people that made aesthetically pleasing artifacts, especially cloth (but their pots probably sucked). So if you want to look for an artist deity, you'll be looking for one connected with inspiration rather than one connected with the making of art. The ones that come to mind are:
Xápōm Népōt. He's connected with the sacred drink, which gives a variety of gifts, including inspiration. His inspiration is mainly of poetry and music, but perhaps he could be concerned with other arts.
Xáusōs. She's not as obvious a choice, but as a goddess who brings the light into the world she might bring inspiration.
Bhṛǵṇtyā́. She's not in the video, because the evidence isn't strong enough to be sure she was a PIE deity. It's reconstructed from bṝhati, which is a title of the Vedic dawn goddess Uṣas, and Brigid, an Irish goddess one of whose functions is to inspire poets. Again it's more of a case of poetic inspiration rather than of physical art, but the PIEs used the phrase "weavers of words" to describe poets, so they saw a connection between poetry and physical art.
So there isn't an obvious patron for artists, but you can try one of these and see how it turns out.
How is the Slavic god Veles connected to this? He is the god of wealth, including cattle, the god of cthonic areas such as the forests and the god of the underworld.
He is depicted as a snake, or as a wolf, or as a bear. Commonly he is an opponent to Perun the thunder god.
Slavic stuff is tough. There's so little evidence. And of course, for those of us reconstructing it in the West, so much of it is in Slavic languages and in sources we don't have access to. However, what I've learned is that some have looked for parallels among the Baltic Velinas, Slavic Veles, Norse Ullr, and Vedic Varuṇa. However, even if the linguistics line up (and I don't have the competence to judge that), it's hard to see the functions of those deities line up. Bottom line, we probably don't know enough about Veles to be sure.
The opposition between Perun and Veles is a good point. This would put Veles in the role of the Cosmic Serpent. That character has negative connections, but since the main opposition in IE thought isn't between Good and Bad, but between Good and Ambiguous, it's possible that the Serpent might have picked up some positive characteristics among the Slavs (although still retaining at least some of his negative ones), with the Slavic reflex therefore being Veles.
Bottom line, it's difficult to say.
Lithuanian and Sanskrit are the closest to ancient PiE !
Military pilots during PIE? What the heck are you talking about?
I'm talking about how modern Pagans working in the PIE tradition could work with these deities.
Jupiter IS Deus Pater, Zeus,Jove. 2's father, and 2 is Ares(Mars/Jesus). Ares is the god of war and polarity. Are is one, Ares is plural, 2 rams, 2 wolf brothers, etc. These 2 are in opposition of course, hence war.
I don't understand. Dyeus Pter is definitely _not_ Jupiter, although he is the origin of many of the concepts surrounding Jupiter. DP isn't god of lightning, for instance, that role being played by Perkwunos in the PIE system. And Jesus is definitely _not_ Jesus.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 Do you also have the Jupiter glyph on your skin, in different areas of your body as I do?
@@ceisiwrserith2224 Oh yeah, my first name equals 47 and(DP)and 74. Does yours? Oh yeah, the numeric value of Jesus is 74 as well as John and Janus.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 My mother Dorothy(Doorway/Janus)born in January, is an Aquarius(11), my father is a Gemini♊ born on May 24, and I'm an Aries/Mars/Christ). I'm THE authority on Jupiter.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 22(4/M) 22(4/Man) 33(U=3/L=3). MManUL(Immanuel).
Dyeus pter IE in albanian is Dheu ate
Thanks.
@卐 خانه آریایی ها卍 As long as they don't actually claim that, I'm thrilled to get information about the Albanians. It's hard to find any.
Paxuson reminds me of Poseidon for some reason, is there any relation?
No. They do sound a little alike, but the Greek reflex of Paxuson is Pan.
Is there any way he could be related to anything?
Etymologically, no. His name is certainly at least partly Indo-European; the first part of it comes from *poti-, "master, lord, husband." The meaning of the second half is debated, although some relate it to a word for "earth," which would likely make him "husband of the earth," or "master of the earth." The second would fit in nicely with his role as god of earthquakes.Mythically, he might be related to Xapom Nepots. He is connected with the horse-headed version of Demeter, and with water sources, both of which may indicate this. Nothing certain, though.
Paxuson or Pushan in Sanskrit. I found strangely similar to God Pokhu, worshipped by remnants of Kassite (Non Vedic Aryans of Western Himalyas) Tribals of Jaunsar Bhabhar, Dehradun. I felt jolted by the God's power when in a trip overwhelmed with psychosomatic rituals in commune with the unreachable landscape of its worshippers.
RAVINDRA SINGH BASERA
Kassites were from iraq,not analogous to khas of the himalayas.
Ancient European Brahmanism pantheon:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion
*Dyēus *ph₂tḗr ("Daytime-sky Buddha/ Shinning father in the sky") | *Plth₂wih₂ méh₂tēr ("Mother-Earth Buddha")
================
*Déiwos | *H₂n̥suró
================
*Déiwos Perkʷunos ("Celestial Thunder Buddha") | *H₂n̥suró *Werunos ("Ocean Buddha")
*Déiwos Yemos ("Ruler of Underworld")
*Deiwih₂ *seh₂g- ("Female Buddha of Jealousy"/ Consort of Thunder Buddha) => India: Shachi / Greece: Hera
*Déiwos kr̥snós ("Black Buddha") | *H₂n̥suró Deh2nu- ("Female Buddha of River")
Yemos who became the King of underground is equated with Yama Raja who is a folk god of hell in Sri lankan Sinhala culture.
Yemos = Yama
Yep.
Мока Борис, I'm thinking of Ba'al and Marduk.
www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/02/mysterious-indo-european-homeland-may-have-been-steppes-ukraine-and-russia
@@garyjaensch7143 Cool. I think the Anatolian hypothesis is silly. The reason why it puts PIE so early is because it says that the language spread primarily through acculturation, rather than migration, and that would take a long time. But the linguistic data doesn't support such an old origin. The hypothesis also requires what developed into Greek to have traveled from Anatolia to Greece by a route that took it around the Black Sea, rather than just crossing the bit of water between Anatolia and Greece.
@Michael Bonés Oh my God; I just saw this. Sorry for the two year delay. The pronunciation is "Pā́x-u-sōn." The accent is on the first syllable. The "ā́" is as in "father." The "x" is the "ch" in "Bach" or the Scottish pronunciation of "loch," or even the correct pronunciation of English (from Yiddish) "yech." There's a clip of it here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_fricative. The "u" is as in "lute," only a little shorter. The "ō" is as in "hone."
Again, sorry for missing this the first time.
A brilliant white pill for the summer of 2020
You missed Werunos.
I think that you're talking about the possible deity I would call *Worunos. This is a name suggested by Peter Jackson (Jackson, Peter. Light from Distant
Asterisks: Towards a Description of the
Indo-European Religious Heritage. Numen 49 (2002), 61-101). In my second edition of _Deep Ancestors_ (not likely to be published; just a personal project), I include him as a possible deity, writing: “Coverer?” Peter Jackson (2002, 73-5) suggests this as
the source of Woden (*Wōðanaz), Uranos, and Varuṇa. He would be a god of the dark sky - perhaps
the cloudy sky, perhaps the night sky.
He would also have been connected with poetry. However, I'm not certain there's enough evidence to reconstruct him. In particular, Woden has a perfectly good etymology that doesn't seem the same as that of the other gods. However, if anyone wants to worship him as a PIE god, I've got no problem with it. It's certainly a possibility.
I forgot to include this: www.scribd.com/document/43901767/Light-From-Distant-Asterisks. It's a great article.
I thought Werunos/Welnos was a sheperd like god, I had no idea that he was a "coverer". I'm not very familiar with PIE as much as I am fascinated with it :D
@Joey Pelobello - Moses and Aaron's Butter Biscuits! Possibly. I don't think there's enough information to be sure, though.
@Joey Pelobello - Moses and Aaron's Butter Biscuits! There's certainly a lot of Near Eastern influence in Greek mythology, but there's a surprising amount of IE mythology that survives in Greece, especially with Herakles. The competition between Poseidon and Athena to decide who was to be in charge of Athens is IE too. But you're right about Werunos and the NE. That's why I'm hesitant to include him in the list of PIE deities; even if we can reconstruct his name, we can't reconstruct enough of anything else to make it worthwhile.
This seems to be more based on the indo european side of things with the oldness imbeded in
I don't understand. Could you clarify?
@@ceisiwrserith2224 well that the explainations you gave are actually based on some older tales if you will; find those older things youd understand perhaps wat u explained is more of a concordance and ofc this is a pretty good video
@@dylanlandry4996 If I understand your point, then _of course_ the characteristics of the reconstructed PIE deities is based on the concordances of later IE deities. That's how PIE reconstruction, both linguistic and cultural, works: we look for patterns of similarities.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 Cool cool 👌
@@dylanlandry4996 Thanks for liking the video. Of course these are based on old tales, and the older the better. But they're also based on other things - images on artifact, the artifacts themselves, archaeology, hymns, folklore, and of course linguistics, as well as other things. It all gets mixed in and used as data in reconstruction.
Not all but still most of these gods are still worshipped by us.
In somewhat modified form, and with somewhat modified importance, yes.
Perkwnos IE in Albania is prek/une
(father sky)
dyaus pitr(veda)=zeus=jupiter
(old thunder god)varun(veda)=perun
(new thunder god)indra(veda)=thor and perun
(horse twin god)asvins(veda)=twins
(war god,storm)maruts(veda)=mars
(god of wealth)bhaga(veda)=?
(eternal flowing river)danu(veda)=danu
vrita(veda)=multi heated serpent or dragon who blocked water
apam napat(veda)=neptune
(cattle andpastoralgod)pushan(veda)
(mother earth)prithvi matr(veda)
Most of these gods have cognitive equivalents in the old Baltic religion. Another part of them has become common words, or Baltic innovations of old religion.
Dyēus Phter (Proto-Indo-European: *dyḗws ph₂tḗr, also *Dyḗus Ph2tḗr - Dievas(*Deivos). God has many euphemisms and epithets.
Xáryomēn- Kauriraris is the deity of Lithuanian war and war horses. "Kariuomenė"- army.
Perkʷū́nos- Perkūnas
Diwós Sunú- Dievo sūneliai, Lauki Ašvieniai(white horsis).
Xápōm Népōts- upė- river, nepuotis- grandson(daughter), descendant, relative, cousin.
Yemós and Mannus- "Jumis" is the Latvian grain god.
"mane"- me.
Páxusōn- pekus( cattle)
Mēnōs- Mėnulis, mėnuo- month.
Yes, Baltic Paganism is a wonderful source for Proto-Indo-European reconstruction. At least it _would_ be if more sources were available in English. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to learn Lithuanian. I don't recognize some of the deities you list. Could you give me sources of them that are in either English or German? Thanks for any help you can give; I would love to have more Baltic sources for my PIE work.
@@ceisiwrserith2224
viduramziu.istorija.net/socium/pagonybe.htm
It is a pity, but N.Vėlius is a classic work on old religion and mythology, not translated into English.
Ɂeḱwonā- ašva(mare), ašvas,ašvienis(horse)
Gʷouwindā- govėda(1.herd, 2. gang), gauja(gang, band, old meaning "cows herd")
Xáusōs- Aušrinė
Sawélyosyo Dhugətḗr- Saulės Dukterys("Daughters of the Sun") Aušrinė(Morning star) and Vakarinė(Evening star)
Sawélyosyo bhrāter- Saulės Broterėliai(Brothers of the Sun) Ryto žara(Sunrise) and Vakaro žara(Afterglow)Twin horsis white and black.
Westyā- The functions of this goddess were shared by two goddesses in Lithuanian mythology Gabija and Austėja.
Gabija- goddess of fire. Austėja(Heustea)- Predicted bee goddess, responsible for family growth, patronizing wedding and pregnant women.
Kolyos - Giltinė the goddess of death.
Yes. But I was wondering about your sources. I'm not doubting you; I'd just like to look them up for myself.
@@ceisiwrserith2224
www.iupress.indiana.edu/product_info.php?cPath=1037_5915&products_id=20180
N.Vėlius The World Outlook of the Ancient Balts in 1989
catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/003125905
web.archive.org/web/20070928011835/www.crvp.org/book/Series04/IVA-17/chapter_iv.htm
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lithuanian_mythological_figures#Gods
web.archive.org/web/20140512213250/ausis.gf.vu.lt/eka/mythology/relmyth.html
archive.org/stream/GimbutasMarijaTheBaltsEN1963237P./Gimbutas%2C+Marija+-+The+Balts+%28EN%2C+1963%2C+237+p.%29_djvu.txt
www.lkti.lt/apie_mus/knygynas/kalbotyra/balt-mitologem-etimologijos-zodynas.html
because ancient people worshipped the Nature... they worshipped what they saw around themselves... the perfect exaples are the cultures of INDIA
It's not completely correct that they worshiped nature. More correct would be that they worshiped (or honored) the numina (like deities, ancestors, land spirits, etc.) of things in nature, but also of things in culture. So, for instance, the Romans had Quirinus, god of the Roman people as a whole, Terminus, god of borders, Cloacina, goddess of sewers, etc. The belief that Pagans are Nature-worshipers is a modern one.
Brahmans would hate this video
Epona the horse was actually a goddess haha
Good, but i want to see reflects of these god's names in daughter languages
Good idea. There wasn't room for that in the video, but maybe I'll add it to the description.
Love this video but the bits where you say for whom the specific gods are good for made me cringe a lot. Shouldnt mix up modern paganism with scientific and linguistic study
I understand your discomfort. However, my main project is to show the relevance of these ancient gods to modern times, while keeping the scholarly side intact. Among other things, I want to show modern Pagans how they can practice without making crap up.
Ceisiwr Serith but you did make it up lol
Ceisiwr Serith Thank you for that aid. Many people who look up your videos are pagans who want this info myself included.
Tom Fox says who
which people lived in europe before indo europeans came?
We can't really give them a name. They were absorbed into the Indo-European culture. It is likely that the IEs came in in very small numbers, and that most Europeans are genetically descended from the pre-IEs. Their languages and cultures most likely had a large effect on the IE languages, being a major reason why the descendant traditions differ in the first place. Basque is almost certainly a surviving pre-IE language, and Etruscan may have been (it wasn't IE, but it may have come from Anatolia originally). Other than through genetic analysis, something about which I know little, we can't say much about them, unfortunately.
Ceisiwr Serith
There have now been intensive mitochondrial DNA studies carried out on the people of Modern Tuscany, particularly people who live and are descended from those who lived in the rural areas. (Less likely to be of mixed race). These studies showed us that a significant number of the Tuscan population were not Italic. There nearest match was with Lemnos, the large island off the coast of NW modern Turkey. We know from the Iliad of Homer that the bronze age population on Lemnos were not Greek, as the Greeks sacked the island during the Trojan war. So, if the Tuscans are descended from this non-Greek population group, the alternative theory of the Foundation of Rome, in that Rome was founded by the Descendants of Aeneas and other war-refugees from Troy, as scribed by Vergil in his Aeneid, is possibly the more correct theory.
1Ajius The Tuscans you mention are likely descended from the non-IE Etruscans. Where they came from I don't know, but genetics studies is showing us some pretty cool things.
+Ceisiwr Serith If the IE immigrants came in very small numbers, how were their languages and cultures able to so quickly displace those of the various aboriginal populations? I understand that horses and superior metallurgy do convey some advantage, but hardly enough for a few small bands to totally overwhelm Europe in such a relatively short time. And we know that many IE groups (Celts, Teutons, Slavs, etc) were prone to large-scale migrations; why would this not have been the case for their forebears? If your underlying thesis is simply that the indigenous peoples had a significant impact on IE language, culture and ethnicity through intermarriage and assimilation, I'd have to agree. But positing a numerically insignificant of IE immigrants isn't required to support that thesis, and doesn't really account for how IE culture and language could become so nearly universal in the region.
Robert Findley It's possible for small numbers of incomers to have a large effect on the culture of indigenous populations, including their languages. The usual way is through elite dominance. This can take two forms. 1. A smaller group defeats a larger group militarily through better technology or organization. We see this in Gaul, where the Celtic languages were quickly replaced by a form of Vulgar Latin that was later to become French. 2. A smaller group is seen as cultural superior to an indigenous group by the indigenes themselves. This was probably the case in Britain, where Anglo-Saxon replaced Brythonic without replacing the Britons. (Genetic evidence shows no significant change as the result of the Anglo-Saxons coming to Britain, with the conclusion that they likely came in small numbers.) These two aren't necessarily separate; it's pretty natural (although not inevitable) to view a culture that has conquered you as superior; this happened in Gaul, where the upper classes quickly became Romanized, which then trickled down the social ladder.
So we have historical examples in which this kind of language shift took place in a short period of time. It's therefore not controversial to suggest that the same thing took place in the early IE period.
Baal and Marduk have evidence, is there evidence for your claims.
There are texts and inscriptions for Ba'al and Marduk. The PIEs didn't have writing, so we don't have any of those for them. What we do have is linguistic and mythological reconstruction. The relative accuracy of the linguistic reconstruction is well-accepted; the mythological reconstruction less so, but still accepted.
So is Xausos the Greek Eos?
***** Yes, "Eos" is descended from *Xausos. It's one of the names used to reconstruct Xausos' name.
Yes, it's good to hear that she is still being worshiped. Dawn is a lovely goddess. I often pray to her myself. Here's a ritual my grove did to Xausos in 2011: nemosognios.org/ritual/2011/2011equinox.shtml. We still it on the spring equinox, although it has changed slightly through the years.
***** He says that in the video
Really interesting that the sun is a goddess and the moon is a god
Yes, it is. I think the moon = goddess, sun = moon started in the Near East, was adopted by the Greek, and then spread to Rome. Even in Greek, though, Helen survives as a reflex of the sun goddess. To be fair, however, the sun itself was the eye of Dyeus Pter, while the daughter of the sun was a goddess.
In Vedic culture both are gods. Goddesses are different.
This is also true of the Norse (Sol and Mani) and the Japanese (Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi).
Saulė (feminine word), represented as a mother in lithuanian folk songs
Mėnulis (masculine word), represent as a father in lithuanian folk songs
@@ceisiwrserith2224 so Helen was a Solar goddess? I think Alectrona was a Greek solar goddess 😘
Westya sounds awfully similar to Hestia
She is. She the source of goddesses like Hestia and Vesta.
Akwom IE in Albania is akull
lords of kobol :D
Sound is too low
I do not think the proto indo Europeans had kings. they had chef or nothing.
"King" is a fuzzy word. Early Medieval Ireland is a good example. There were kings all over the place; everyone who controlled an area, including just a town or two, considered themselves a "king." Each king owed all fealty to a higher king, and so on, up until the High King of Ireland, which may or may not have been a real thing. In English uses we would have called them lords, barons, dukes, and such. The PIE word for "king" was probably used similarly, and "chief" or "chieftain" might be just as a appropriate. It is possible that *reks originally meant just such a thing; etymologically I think it means "one who stretches out;" in other words, one who extends his power and judgments. It may only have become what we would call "king" later on. But applying our own theories of government to those of ancient peoples is a sticky problem. You can go with "chief" if you want.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 The Indo-Europeans were more like the great horde.
I would have to disagree with that. We know they practiced agriculture, for instance, as they had words for "plough" and "pig." (Pigs aren't the sort of animals nomads raise; short legs and all.) Their social groups were a lot smaller than any horde. They also were a lot less destructive than the horde, as seen by the amount of non-IE elements in the descendant traditions.I see them more as a large group of closely related cultures, kind of like the different areas of medieval England, with different dialects and varying customs. Some of the deities I listed probably were popular in some areas but ignored in others, and vice versa, for instance. For the usual reasons, primarily economic, groups of them would set out on migrations, and install themselves as "overlords" of new lands. As the high-status members of the area, their language and culture would be adopted by the lower status members, albeit with changes absorbed from the lower status people. Think the Anglo-Saxons in England; they were a small number of people who took over an area without displacing the locals (as we know from genetics).
@@ceisiwrserith2224 They were semi nomadic looking for new places to live or conquest and rest stay where their where.
Sure. I just wouldn't compare them to the Hoard, though. They didn't come in big waves, destroying all in their wake, and many of them likely moved in quite peacefully; there were plenty of areas that had lots of open land.
My family are Serbian so does Serbia have gods
There are certainly pre-Christian deities of Serbia. There might be information on some of them here: sms.zrc-sazu.si/En/kazalo.html. The site covers all of the Slavic regions; I don't remember if there's anything on Serbia. Most of the articles in the journal's issues aren't in English, but enough are that I've found them useful.
pa srbi su verovali u slovenske bogove
India is not just indo European.... Stop this....
+Kannan R Stop what? I don't think that I implied that India _was_ only IE. I'm well aware of the large number of Dravidians there. But it remains true that there are a lot of IE language speakers there.
Only North Indian high castes are descended of those in European ones.
@@VishalDubey I belong to a lower caste and believe me I'm fair skinned guy. I do look alike my father but the skin settles the difference . Even the brahmis look darker . In true words many aryans and dravians mixed centuries ago in North India
@@papaaaron7058 yes they did mix but not as much as you think, lower cast got the look because many kshatriyas raped and had lower cast mistresses.
@@VishalDubey I know it was evil way
I cannot wait to look through the comments section and seeing people shi**ng on Christianity and saying that paganism is better.
Wish me luck.
No need to cause you wont find that
Yeah, that's always a shame. I obviously prefer Paganism (I wish you had capitalized it), since I converted to it from Catholicism. But I have no problems with Christianity, as long as its adherents - and they are just those of a particular version of it - keep their beliefs out of laws and the schools. I, in return, will do my best to keep Paganism out of them too.When I'm at Pagan gatherings, there is often a lot of Christian-bashing. I find myself in the odd position of defending a religion I left. (I may be biased, since my wife is Christian.) It upsets me to see Pagans bashing Christianity; it's immature and offensive, and does us no favors with society as a whole. I often find as well that those doing the bashing are ignorant of what Christianity is really about, especially its history. I find myself having to say that, no, the Council of Nicea did _not_ decide what books are in the bible, and no, Christianity did _not_ steal from Paganism, especially the idea of a dying and resurrecting God, which didn't even exist within Paganism. And so on. Sigh.So if there is any Christian-bashing, at least as far as beliefs and history, rest assured it won't be coming from me.
Heathenism isn't globalist garbage, it is only the common set of beliefs that stemmed from the same background of various groups of people bound together by sibling tongue.
For real, recommending ancient pagan gods to pray to? For real?
Sure. Why not? It isn't like they've gone away. I pray to a couple of these ever day.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 😑
Yes.
Wyrd in old english doesn't mean natural law. Wyrd means something along the lines of fate which is influenced by a persons orlag(action/deed). It's not good to try and make our heritage some eastern hindu thing. We are not indo......
Guta Thiudans Hindu tradition is descended from Indo-European. Fate and natural law are the same thing. The genetic evidence also shows that Europeans are largely descended from indo-Europeans. Blonde hair and blue eyes are a purely indo-european trait.
@@AryanWarriorBogpill Any religion that developed in Northern India in the vicinity of the Indus/Sindu [Hindu] River would be called Hinduism - Including Vedic Religion, Buddhism and Jainism. Hinduism is just the religion[s] of the area. There are other deities in India and nearby Persia that were incorporated into modern day hinduism. Rhyton for example fought and killed the demon which took the form of a buffalo. She drank it's blood and wore the head around her neck. This is similar to Durga and Kali fighting and killed Raktabija. A lot of mixing went on over thousands of years.
How Christian of u ; remind me to avoid it vids on future dates
Why does this seem Christian?
Just the rigidity of your discourse. That's how it came over anyway. I probably think the thorough revival of paganism involves the removal of cameras ; to allow the flow to return ( which includes the removal of my own voyeuristic tendencies into paganism on the internet ; which I'm working on )
Heathenism can clip onto an atheistic strand when preached, which I find difficult to untangle from Christianity. As I say all the best; I'll disappear down my path and resist u-tube
I was presenting the question of whose these deities are/were from what we know from scholarship into the subject. If my discourse came across as rigid, it's because of that. Ancient Paganism was very highly structured, however; even its most ecstatic forms were practiced under tight control.
Internet is a great depositoire of knowledge from which you can pick your collection of prefered ideas and organize them into your own system of values and with your life experience into wisdom
It is not voyeuristic only, It can be but It can be not. It is for research and good intent also. That is obviously not to say that you have to forgive the actual life... Your discourse is a bit too drastic and even if I can understand the reasons it they are not sufficient to disregard the work of this man which publicises già reasearch and to some extent his knowledge
All of this is nothing more then a barely educated guess. These people had no written language. The left very few artifacts that gives us any insight into their culture. We know most of what we know about them through DNA traces and reverse engineering of current cultures and religions. A tad bit more tentative nature should be used when discussing these topics.
The only true god is Zeus together with the goddess Mary. Al-hamdu-l-Illah.Baruch Ha-Shem.Hall-El-u-Yahweh
Ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaa. There's no such thing as "the only true god". The word "god" means someone or something that is worshipped. Anyone or anything that is worshipped is a god. There's no such thing as a "false god", that's meaningless nonsense. And how can a woman who lived two thousand years ago be the only true goddess? RIDICULOUS, CRASS, IDIOTIC, NONSENSE!
Also, what the hell makes you think that these " indo" europeans had a god for military pilots?? Lol bs. The name Thuner(Thor) is not related to this "proto indo" god " Perkwunos".. Proto indo european is an imaginary language that a bunch of weird scholars came up with so they can claim they have knowledge of " the ancient riddles" or some nonsense...... THERE IS ACTUALLY NO EVIDENCE FOR THIS LANGUAGE
true. slavic languages are indigious EUROPEAN!!! not indo-european!! first IE people accepted old slavic language, latin and old greek are derived from slavic, as indoeuropean and celitc late elements inside european linguistic group. see how jews hate anything european with their so called science?
Ughhh what? The whole reason for the idea of PIE is because there is evidence for it in almost every European and non-arabic speaking west Asian countries. There is no physical evidence of it because this language was not a written language and it existed before Sumerian. As far as we know Sumerian was the first written language we have evidence for. The only European languages that may have survived the PIE invasion are Basque, Hungarian, and Finnish and a few other minor ones.
Tiami just be quite you fool. How the hell did you come up with jews in this?
Guta Thiudans there is perfectly good evidence for it, dipshit.
There's no need to be rude. Certainly no one doubts that the majority of European languages have a common ancestry, but its actual form and what it was called by its speakers are unknown.
Mike689 Hungarians and Finns aren't native to Europe either!