Everybody seems to forget a specific use case for the 2013 Mac: developing and testing microservices with Docker. It is a compelling development machine for this. I updated mine to 64 GB RAM and a 24-threaded CPU for about 70 USD, and it performs extremely well compared to my 10750H Laptop. OCLP is also getting easier to deal with every day. On my machine, I can run a few very heavy docker containers to run integration tests easily. Also, for programming and running integration tests using testcontainers they are a great option. And you are running on Intel which is what most people deploy to in the cloud anyway.
Congratulations on reaching 10,000 subscribers. I’ve really enjoyed your work on this channel. Very smooth and elegant b-roll pairs so nicely with your accent and the laid-back atmosphere in the videos. I also like how at times you shine positive light on machines that historically have been a bit battered and bruised by the larger Mac public; you are extremely fair and well-calibrated in your assessments of the Macs Apple has brought to market over the years. I appreciate that. Thank you for the effort thus far, and into the future. Godspeed.
@@Buschaga possibly my favourite comment. Thank you very much, that’s a very sweet evaluation, and I’m glad to have created something you and others enjoy!
the thing is though, why would you buy a mac to run linux on it when you could get well, any other computer. if you're buying a mac pro the primary use should be MacOS, and anything else like Linux more of a nice bonus/thing you can boot into when MacOS is lacking something specific
@@oggilein1essentially you could get MacOS to work on any other computer if compatible, the only thing the Mac Pro would have is the cool factor and sleek build quality
Two years ago you and I would have been in complete agreement. Today the Intel macs are pretty close to fire-sale prices. I can and do run my Dell 990. The 27-inch imacs are around $100 U.S., and have a great monitor and wifi built-in. That's less than the i7 tower cost. The mac pro I looked at and passed over. They'll do a lot more work than my i7 tower, but high TDP means more electrical consumption. The system would be overkill for Web browsing and audio processing.
5.1 Mac Pro owner here. I bough one a few years ago. Its maxed out now. I. wanted this as a secondary as back then I used a 27" iMac. Still have it but it but I dont use the iMac nowadays. The 5.1 is connected to a 30" Cinema Display HD. Both are in mint condition. The M series Macs are pretty good but NOT future proof.
A 2013 mac pro would still be useful due to pcie 3.0 over the 5,1 which still had 2.0 for graphics. Pairing it with a cooling base from SPEED Designs to mitigate the cooling issue, it runs bootcamp and macos quite well.
@@GoodGuy06 that 2.0 to 3.0 jump is less perceptible than you’d think. As far as I’m aware the CPUs are by far the biggest bottleneck for performance, and there’s not a big improvement there.
The 2013 trash can? I have it as my office computer and I don't recommend it. Its been great for regular tasks but I wouldn't want it as my main machine. It shows its age if I run more complex tasks through it. I'm actually building the replacement to it right now--SFF PC in the Fractal Mood case. Won't be running MacOS obviously but I'll have it on Linux.
I daily-ed a 2010 5,1 Mac Pro Dual CPU model for almost 5 years. The upgradeability and support for newer MacOS versions (through OpenCore) made it a great machine. Unfortunately it generated so much heat that I had to get rid of it, but other than that it was flawless.
I might buy a Mac Pro 5,1 as a collection piece as well as a cheap reliable backup machine once I have some money saved up and maybe the 7,1 as well again for collection purposes and backup machine reasons if the prices come down in the states but only time will tell
They really should make mac pros like the 5,1 again. Sadly I don't think it would be profitable enough for them to consider it anymore, since apple has ascended to the point where it is THE mainstream brand. Makes me wonder if they will even bother refreshing the pro-display XDR or the mac pro anytime soon. Or if an upgraded studio display and m4 ultra mac studio will end up being the silver bullet that kills off the mac pro entirely.
If Apple continues to release Macs with Intel chips, we will be able to use them for another 8 years. But in 2026, all Intel Macs will become obsolete, with the inability to use OpenCore because there will only be an ARM version and not X86. So, the Mac Pro 7.1 is dead, unfortunately. If only Macs with Apple Silicon accepted eGPUs, that would already be great. I love tinkering, adding RAM, and graphics cards
I still have a 5.1 on my desk, it’s very handy when things go wrong with the newer Mac’s. Sometimes certain problems can only be solved by using this ancient machine. However since 2017 my main edit system is a PC workstation. Although I sometimes think a Mac Studio might be a good replacement one day, apart from the lack of internal space.
I’m using a 2013 Mac Pro with an eGPU for inference rendering and with 10GbE Ethernet is Surprisingly fast-I can even do color correction and rendered an entire movie in 4 hours, which is decent considering all the effects and EXR sequences. The only thing that slows it down is AVX2, but for now, it’s working fine.
The most recent Intel and Apple Silicon Mac Pros are impressive. Though I feel that someone who is looking to use a high end workstation could be served just as well, if not better, by a custom built workstation or a pre-built workstation from an OEM like Lenovo, HP, or SuperMicro.
Great video! Any thoughts on the iMac Pros? Found a mint one that’s fully maxed out and manufactured in March ‘21 (the last month made before being discontinued) for 2k. I really like it, but I’m concerned about life expectancy at this point.
@@sestoman it’s really difficult. That is a killer deal, but not worth 2k at this point I think. Perhaps you could find one closer to 1k with lower spec? Not such a big sum to blow then if it doesn’t last you years and years. Like with the 2019 Mac Pro, DDR4 and processors from the 20teens have been surpassed by a long distance now.
Thanks for the nice Throwback. I bought a used Mac Pro 2019 for 900,- in mint condition and upgraded it for 200,- to 192 GB RAM. PCIE SSD will be next in the upcoming months. :) I use it for orchestral music and I couldn't be happier. I'm sure I'll have it for years to come and will probably be able to sell it again for a similar price afterwards. It's a very unique piece of hardware that Apple has created. I've never owned such a perfectly designed and manufactured computer. Btw, the main reason for me was that I could upgrade the RAM at any point. I probably wouldn't have been able to get a Mac Studio with 192 GB RAM for less than 6000,- and that's just too much for me, especially as the price will drop at some point in the next few years. 5 years is generally a good rule of thumb for buying used things - probably the best place to start, even with cars.
@@d_lydian excellent deal. Very lucky. Yeah it really depends what you’re buying, but for computers, I agree with that 5 year rule these days. Thanks for watching!
Great video. I agree with all your points. I have a mid-range trash can mac which I got for almost nothing. Its showing its age a little bit but is still highly competent. Obviously, I am weighing whether or not it would be worth it to splay the cash for a cheese grater Intel Mac Pro.
Apple did released Mac Pro M2 Ultra, but it was disappointing as it lacks upgradable RAM, even unable to use dGPU while Intel version is still support AMD dGPU though 😅 Oh yeah being able to run Any OS on 2019 Mac Pro is just plus point I think 😅
Through my experience, I would suggest making a hackintosh instead of a Mac Pro, because even with old Apple tech, you are still paying that Apple tax. Sure a hackintosh will take some time and effort, but with the same money you can get MUCH better specs.
I think there is a difference between upgrading the 2009-12 Mac Pro you already own and going out to purchase one. It simply isn't a computer I'd suggest anyone pay money for anymore. The 2013 can be had under $200 now and even M1 based systems are getting cheap enough 2nd hand that it's hard to justify almost any Intel Mac anymore. I'd strongly recommend against anyone beginning an investment in a pre-2013 Mac Pro.
This is my thing when it comes to Intel Mac's or M1/2/3... Yes the Intel ones are cheaper now, cheaper not super cheap. And they still have performance to give but for how long??? For how long will they run the software? For how long will they do the job in a decent measure and time? Future Proofing the M cpu's make sense. Still, those are really expensive. And those Intel models look juicy.
I've recently bought a 2019 for cheap, along with my 2009 I already own. And I've had experience with the trash can. This video kinda suffers from a lack of experience with the newer machines imp. the 2019 sure got surpassed pretty quickly, but it's cpu will certainly help long term as gpu's wont be that bottlenecked by it. I wouldn't invest into these platforms without major reason, but beyond 2009 all these machines so far have been pretty solid and all have use cases.
good video monte have to disagree on the 2013 mac pro though, works well when I edit video on mine I still recall being utterly dumbfounded when the 2019 mac pro came out and I saw the amount of RAM you could get it with
@@ImInterestedInApathyII thank you. I suppose it depends on the app, video quality and spec - I still deem them a little ‘not worth it’ in price though. Yeah some aspects of the 7,1 still blow my mind.
@@montaguebarnabasltd back then I remember seeing '1.5 terabytes of RAM?? what the heck does anybody need that for??' the other reason I love my 2013 mac pro is because its small but with lots of power and barely takes up any space on my desk, good for lan gaming. But then again, that falls under one of the 'special use cases' for buying old macs.
Lets stop trolling people shall we. Youre not grabbing a cMP 5, 1 and playing the lastest AAA games bc you have a decent GPU thats utter nonsense. From having to mod the PSU for starts, then hoping the game doesnt require a CPU made in the last decade in the end its not worth the effort even IF you already own one. Oh yea how did you install Windows 11 hmm bc Apple blocked all the normal methods and these Macs did not come installed with Bootcamp. So you need access to a PC to get Windows installed or some other not so direct method. With all that covered bc we like a challenge, your Mac Pro that youve spent too many hours and money on is still only marginaly better, better then 2010 sure but not 2024. It still heats up any room better then the best HVAC units. And to further insult your sanity, your kids 2018 iPad Pro and their cute iPhone 15 Pro effectively and efficiently run rings around it, Lol.
@@emotionalintelligence776 1. I haven’t touched the PSU. 2. You need another computer to install Windows on a regular PC too… is it really that difficult? 3. I’m kind of honoured and concerned you think I’m old enough to have kids, let alone of iPad-wielding age. 4. Your comment is so disrespectful and badly written you’re lucky I even responded bro
An M1 Mac Mini could run circles around a trash can, if the Mini is spec'ed appropriately. I compared on both and was floored that the Mini did so well against what was at one point an 8000 dollars machine.
if one wants a computer, they dont want a mac, they dont, since m1, its all gotten unrepairable ewaste, dont buy macs, its not worth the better battery life and faster speeds, it isnt, its ewaste, as for intel macs, best use is linux machines
Everybody seems to forget a specific use case for the 2013 Mac: developing and testing microservices with Docker. It is a compelling development machine for this. I updated mine to 64 GB RAM and a 24-threaded CPU for about 70 USD, and it performs extremely well compared to my 10750H Laptop. OCLP is also getting easier to deal with every day. On my machine, I can run a few very heavy docker containers to run integration tests easily. Also, for programming and running integration tests using testcontainers they are a great option. And you are running on Intel which is what most people deploy to in the cloud anyway.
Congratulations on reaching 10,000 subscribers. I’ve really enjoyed your work on this channel. Very smooth and elegant b-roll pairs so nicely with your accent and the laid-back atmosphere in the videos. I also like how at times you shine positive light on machines that historically have been a bit battered and bruised by the larger Mac public; you are extremely fair and well-calibrated in your assessments of the Macs Apple has brought to market over the years. I appreciate that. Thank you for the effort thus far, and into the future. Godspeed.
@@Buschaga possibly my favourite comment. Thank you very much, that’s a very sweet evaluation, and I’m glad to have created something you and others enjoy!
They'll run Debian fine for awhile though, just like my 2011 imac.
the thing is though, why would you buy a mac to run linux on it when you could get well, any other computer. if you're buying a mac pro the primary use should be MacOS, and anything else like Linux more of a nice bonus/thing you can boot into when MacOS is lacking something specific
@@oggilein1essentially you could get MacOS to work on any other computer if compatible, the only thing the Mac Pro would have is the cool factor and sleek build quality
Two years ago you and I would have been in complete agreement. Today the Intel macs are pretty close to fire-sale prices. I can and do run my Dell 990. The 27-inch imacs are around $100 U.S., and have a great monitor and wifi built-in. That's less than the i7 tower cost.
The mac pro I looked at and passed over. They'll do a lot more work than my i7 tower, but high TDP means more electrical consumption. The system would be overkill for Web browsing and audio processing.
5.1 Mac Pro owner here. I bough one a few years ago. Its maxed out now. I. wanted this as a secondary as back then I used a 27" iMac. Still have it but it but I dont use the iMac nowadays.
The 5.1 is connected to a 30" Cinema Display HD.
Both are in mint condition.
The M series Macs are pretty good but NOT future proof.
A 2013 mac pro would still be useful due to pcie 3.0 over the 5,1 which still had 2.0 for graphics. Pairing it with a cooling base from SPEED Designs to mitigate the cooling issue, it runs bootcamp and macos quite well.
@@GoodGuy06 that 2.0 to 3.0 jump is less perceptible than you’d think. As far as I’m aware the CPUs are by far the biggest bottleneck for performance, and there’s not a big improvement there.
The 2013 trash can? I have it as my office computer and I don't recommend it. Its been great for regular tasks but I wouldn't want it as my main machine. It shows its age if I run more complex tasks through it. I'm actually building the replacement to it right now--SFF PC in the Fractal Mood case. Won't be running MacOS obviously but I'll have it on Linux.
10K !!! well done
I daily-ed a 2010 5,1 Mac Pro Dual CPU model for almost 5 years. The upgradeability and support for newer MacOS versions (through OpenCore) made it a great machine. Unfortunately it generated so much heat that I had to get rid of it, but other than that it was flawless.
@@King_Cooler64 that and the Cinema Display’s heat is worth thinking about to be fair, yeah
I might buy a Mac Pro 5,1 as a collection piece as well as a cheap reliable backup machine once I have some money saved up and maybe the 7,1 as well again for collection purposes and backup machine reasons if the prices come down in the states but only time will tell
They really should make mac pros like the 5,1 again. Sadly I don't think it would be profitable enough for them to consider it anymore, since apple has ascended to the point where it is THE mainstream brand. Makes me wonder if they will even bother refreshing the pro-display XDR or the mac pro anytime soon. Or if an upgraded studio display and m4 ultra mac studio will end up being the silver bullet that kills off the mac pro entirely.
If Apple continues to release Macs with Intel chips, we will be able to use them for another 8 years. But in 2026, all Intel Macs will become obsolete, with the inability to use OpenCore because there will only be an ARM version and not X86. So, the Mac Pro 7.1 is dead, unfortunately. If only Macs with Apple Silicon accepted eGPUs, that would already be great. I love tinkering, adding RAM, and graphics cards
I still have a 5.1 on my desk, it’s very handy when things go wrong with the newer Mac’s. Sometimes certain problems can only be solved by using this ancient machine. However since 2017 my main edit system is a PC workstation. Although I sometimes think a Mac Studio might be a good replacement one day, apart from the lack of internal space.
I’m using a 2013 Mac Pro with an eGPU for inference rendering and with 10GbE Ethernet is Surprisingly fast-I can even do color correction and rendered an entire movie in 4 hours, which is decent considering all the effects and EXR sequences. The only thing that slows it down is AVX2, but for now, it’s working fine.
@@FabioBedoya impressive! Thanks for the insight.
X79 Xeons doesn't have AVX2?
Thank you for your comfortable video
The most recent Intel and Apple Silicon Mac Pros are impressive. Though I feel that someone who is looking to use a high end workstation could be served just as well, if not better, by a custom built workstation or a pre-built workstation from an OEM like Lenovo, HP, or SuperMicro.
@@CherryColaWizard it really depends on the use case, but I think you’re right in a lot of ways.
Great video! Any thoughts on the iMac Pros?
Found a mint one that’s fully maxed out and manufactured in March ‘21 (the last month made before being discontinued) for 2k.
I really like it, but I’m concerned about life expectancy at this point.
@@sestoman it’s really difficult. That is a killer deal, but not worth 2k at this point I think. Perhaps you could find one closer to 1k with lower spec? Not such a big sum to blow then if it doesn’t last you years and years.
Like with the 2019 Mac Pro, DDR4 and processors from the 20teens have been surpassed by a long distance now.
That's a high price, even for maxed out. Half that would probably be "alright", if its maxxed and minty fresh as you say.
Thanks for the nice Throwback. I bought a used Mac Pro 2019 for 900,- in mint condition and upgraded it for 200,- to 192 GB RAM. PCIE SSD will be next in the upcoming months. :) I use it for orchestral music and I couldn't be happier. I'm sure I'll have it for years to come and will probably be able to sell it again for a similar price afterwards. It's a very unique piece of hardware that Apple has created. I've never owned such a perfectly designed and manufactured computer. Btw, the main reason for me was that I could upgrade the RAM at any point. I probably wouldn't have been able to get a Mac Studio with 192 GB RAM for less than 6000,- and that's just too much for me, especially as the price will drop at some point in the next few years. 5 years is generally a good rule of thumb for buying used things - probably the best place to start, even with cars.
@@d_lydian excellent deal. Very lucky. Yeah it really depends what you’re buying, but for computers, I agree with that 5 year rule these days. Thanks for watching!
I work in low level systems (like, develop compilers). A lot of our tooling is still x86. This helps.
The 2019 Mac Pro is still a powerhouse for fine-tuning of LLM's and inference.
Great video. I agree with all your points. I have a mid-range trash can mac which I got for almost nothing. Its showing its age a little bit but is still highly competent. Obviously, I am weighing whether or not it would be worth it to splay the cash for a cheese grater Intel Mac Pro.
Apple did released Mac Pro M2 Ultra, but it was disappointing as it lacks upgradable RAM, even unable to use dGPU while Intel version is still support AMD dGPU though 😅
Oh yeah being able to run Any OS on 2019 Mac Pro is just plus point I think 😅
@@adinnugroho6544 benefits and drawbacks to both. I hear you though.
@@montaguebarnabasltd The Mac Studio is a better option than the 2022 Mac Pro tbh
started with Cisc processors and then Risc so Cisc again and now Risc, But i dont think apple will ever switch to intel again.
Through my experience, I would suggest making a hackintosh instead of a Mac Pro, because even with old Apple tech, you are still paying that Apple tax. Sure a hackintosh will take some time and effort, but with the same money you can get MUCH better specs.
I think there is a difference between upgrading the 2009-12 Mac Pro you already own and going out to purchase one. It simply isn't a computer I'd suggest anyone pay money for anymore. The 2013 can be had under $200 now and even M1 based systems are getting cheap enough 2nd hand that it's hard to justify almost any Intel Mac anymore. I'd strongly recommend against anyone beginning an investment in a pre-2013 Mac Pro.
@@insaneiaq this is a very sensible comment
This is my thing when it comes to Intel Mac's or M1/2/3...
Yes the Intel ones are cheaper now, cheaper not super cheap. And they still have performance to give but for how long???
For how long will they run the software? For how long will they do the job in a decent measure and time?
Future Proofing the M cpu's make sense. Still, those are really expensive. And those Intel models look juicy.
My 5.1 has no problem with Monterey thanks to Martin Lo Open Core - same 6600XT
I've recently bought a 2019 for cheap, along with my 2009 I already own. And I've had experience with the trash can. This video kinda suffers from a lack of experience with the newer machines imp. the 2019 sure got surpassed pretty quickly, but it's cpu will certainly help long term as gpu's wont be that bottlenecked by it. I wouldn't invest into these platforms without major reason, but beyond 2009 all these machines so far have been pretty solid and all have use cases.
What'd you pay since I'm looking to find one and want to know what's a good price
good video monte have to disagree on the 2013 mac pro though, works well when I edit video on mine
I still recall being utterly dumbfounded when the 2019 mac pro came out and I saw the amount of RAM you could get it with
@@ImInterestedInApathyII thank you. I suppose it depends on the app, video quality and spec - I still deem them a little ‘not worth it’ in price though.
Yeah some aspects of the 7,1 still blow my mind.
@@montaguebarnabasltd back then I remember seeing '1.5 terabytes of RAM?? what the heck does anybody need that for??' the other reason I love my 2013 mac pro is because its small but with lots of power and barely takes up any space on my desk, good for lan gaming. But then again, that falls under one of the 'special use cases' for buying old macs.
Under $100?? Most of the ones ive seen have had shipping that are nearly that
The short answer is: No.
Developers are no longer supporting or developing new applications for it.
Lets stop trolling people shall we. Youre not grabbing a cMP 5, 1 and playing the lastest AAA games bc you have a decent GPU thats utter nonsense. From having to mod the PSU for starts, then hoping the game doesnt require a CPU made in the last decade in the end its not worth the effort even IF you already own one. Oh yea how did you install Windows 11 hmm bc Apple blocked all the normal methods and these Macs did not come installed with Bootcamp. So you need access to a PC to get Windows installed or some other not so direct method. With all that covered bc we like a challenge, your Mac Pro that youve spent too many hours and money on is still only marginaly better, better then 2010 sure but not 2024. It still heats up any room better then the best HVAC units. And to further insult your sanity, your kids 2018 iPad Pro and their cute iPhone 15 Pro effectively and efficiently run rings around it, Lol.
@@emotionalintelligence776 1. I haven’t touched the PSU.
2. You need another computer to install Windows on a regular PC too… is it really that difficult?
3. I’m kind of honoured and concerned you think I’m old enough to have kids, let alone of iPad-wielding age.
4. Your comment is so disrespectful and badly written you’re lucky I even responded bro
I find the trashcan is still quite usable. Still works better than my wife's M1 Mac mini.
An M1 Mac Mini could run circles around a trash can, if the Mini is spec'ed appropriately. I compared on both and was floored that the Mini did so well against what was at one point an 8000 dollars machine.
cheap ram and disk，Mac pro 5,1
No, they suck crap
if one wants a computer, they dont want a mac, they dont, since m1, its all gotten unrepairable ewaste, dont buy macs, its not worth the better battery life and faster speeds, it isnt, its ewaste, as for intel macs, best use is linux machines
Lol nice troll
Not really.