Adding voltage controlled PWM to my VCO

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  • Опубліковано 2 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 109

  • @danielpirone8028
    @danielpirone8028 3 роки тому +57

    For fans of this work, also check out the recent videos by professor Aaron Lanterman from Georgia Tech

    • @ldandco
      @ldandco 3 роки тому +1

      nice ! thanks !

    • @porl42
      @porl42 3 роки тому +2

      Really in depth videos on that channel!

    • @dreamyrhodes
      @dreamyrhodes 3 роки тому

      Indeed

  • @g.d.8065
    @g.d.8065 3 роки тому +4

    An important thing to note is that while there is technically an "offset" between the high and low peaks of the AC-coupled pulse wave, that is actually the how the wave is when there is no DC component, because the DC offset of a wave is the average voltage of the wave over time.
    If you record the signal after it's been put through any (properly made) piece of audio equipment, you will see that the apparent "offset" will reappear, because most audio equipment incorporates DC-blocking capacitors at the input and output.
    Since the low duty-cycle pulse wave is spending much more time in the low state than in the high state, the average voltage is closer to the lower level, and when you remove the DC offset, the wave will swing around a point closer to the lower peak. This is true of any asymmetrical wave (any wave that doesn't spend exactly as much time at a higher voltage as it does at a lower voltage).
    If one does the opposite and put it through a low-pass filter, one will see that the "offsetted" AC-coupled pulse wave will average to zero volts, while the "non-offsetted" wave will average to a DC value.
    However, changing the duty cycle without removing the DC offset can be useful for modulation purposes.

  • @OfficialMGMusic
    @OfficialMGMusic 3 роки тому +51

    Technically, the AC coupling was doing its job properly. The signal in the beginning, in fact, had no DC offset! You actually did not want to remove the DC, but center the signal with respect to min and max. This is very different from the DC (which is just the average voltage of the signal). In many technical applications PWM is used exactly for this behavior, simulating a varying DC part, e.g. for controlling brightness of LEDs or motor speeds.

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому +6

      you're right, will phrase that better in the future!

    • @atomictraveller
      @atomictraveller 3 роки тому +2

      @@MoritzKlein0 since this is the top reply: a classic square wave method is to layer two sawtooth waves, one inverted and also offset by 180 degrees (sometimes implemented with a delay). make an easy sketch: these sum as a pulse wave, adjusting the phase relation changes PWM. it is an easy way for a student to visualise how "exceeding the rails" presents the correct signal level and has no offset (unless they understand integration and consider the area inside each rectangle).

  • @poetadiffidato
    @poetadiffidato 3 роки тому +24

    I'll never going to finish my synth if you introduce every week new features that I want to implement😅 thank you so much ❤

  • @JamesPearson
    @JamesPearson 3 роки тому +13

    Fantastic Moritz, great to have such a thorough explanation of the theory behind the circuit. It sounds really good and works perfectly. I need to get on and get my VCO off the breadboard and into a permanent module now! Thanks for the great video.

  • @famitory
    @famitory 3 роки тому +9

    from a frequency domain perspective, the offset on a pulse wave sent through a capacitor does have its DC component removed, as the zero frequency, or average voltage, is nonzero on the input.

  • @debbie09090
    @debbie09090 3 роки тому +2

    I learned a lot from that video, thank you

  • @Stoneman06660
    @Stoneman06660 3 роки тому +6

    Ah! I've had the same problem with an analogue astable multivibrator and have switched to a Schmitt trigger hex inverter to create the square wave. This solution also aids the cause as I can go from zero to 100% duty cycle, thus from off to on on the RGB LED. Another great production, thanks Moritz.

  • @phpn99
    @phpn99 3 роки тому +6

    Moritz, your circuit designs have a uniquely beautiful sound. I wouldn't know how original the designs are, but I know I haven't commonly heard such clean and well-rounded synth sounds. Surely someone should build these as Eurorack modules for us synth buffs to purchase ready-made.

  • @juslegosundelektronik9044
    @juslegosundelektronik9044 2 роки тому +1

    At me using a 100k instead of a 14k resistor works better, because i had range trouble

  • @peter.stimpel
    @peter.stimpel 3 роки тому +3

    A solved bug, well done. So, back to my breadboard adding your changes ...

  • @Ksrwilhelm
    @Ksrwilhelm 3 роки тому +4

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому +4

      making the diode filter multimode is actually a no-brainer! next video will be about that, plus a few other tweaks.

  • @mohamedbelafdal6362
    @mohamedbelafdal6362 3 роки тому

    As an Electrical engineer student, I appreciate your dedication.
    I suggest you use buffers in both your circuits and your schematics to make them simpler.
    You could make the diagrams easier to understand by making boxes around each stage.
    Keep making these videos, they are goldmines

    • @GravelVoice30
      @GravelVoice30 3 роки тому +2

      I agree with you about these videos. This guy does an infinitely better job explaining simple circuits and electronic basics than that Professor Hack mentioned in this thread.
      And speaking of hacks, it's sad that this is all they've taught electronic students for the past 2 or 3 decades now. "Show me the block diagrams, I don't care about the schematics!" I've actually been told that by EE graduates. Pathetic, really...

  • @michaelhoste_
    @michaelhoste_ 3 роки тому +1

    Fantastic as usual. I’m wondering why you have so much reverb when you do the ‘listen alongs’ - it sounds great but makes it a bit ambiguous as to what is actually going on(?)
    Just a comment.

  • @MJLouer
    @MJLouer 3 роки тому +2

    Hi Moritz, Just want to let you know that I have build the VCO and added the CV PWM. I still have this wave drop bug as soon as I turn the 100k pot. Another thing I noticed is when I remove the 14K resistor, I have way more PWM modulation range (more swing to right & left). I also used one of the remaining oscillators of the CD40106 chip and configured it as an LFO which works really well. that signal feeded into the PWM cv input works great! Maybe you could help me how to solve the pwm drop? I did use the same resistor setup (100k comb. 100k pot.) and 250k pot with 68K resistor. thanks in advance for your help and keep up these great videos.

    • @BrandenBarber1
      @BrandenBarber1 2 роки тому +1

      I'm having wave drop as well with this design. Did you ever figure out your issue?
      Edit: Ah! You got an answer of make sure your scope is set to "DC Coupled". This solved my issue as well

    • @MJLouer
      @MJLouer 2 роки тому

      @@BrandenBarber1 hi Brandon
      Yes, according to Moritz you must set your oscilloscope to DC mode.

  • @davec8385
    @davec8385 3 роки тому +2

    Yet another fantastic video! I hope you have a good rest of your day. I look forward to the next one

  • @kellerdev2905
    @kellerdev2905 2 роки тому +1

    I noticed, when connecting inputs through a potentiometer, you are almost always connecting it not like a voltage divider, but just like a resistor, narrowing the pipe so to say. Is there a reason to do things like that, because I find it a little annoing to not be able to turn down a signal completely to 0? The only reason I can think of is not loading the incoming signal with the potentiometer, but I think that's negligable. Another reason might be, that when you have multiple inputs , if the pots are connected as voltage divider, they will influence the other signals. But that can be remedied by connecting all the inputs through the inverting input of an Opamp, as I have found out. Because when the signals are connected through the inverting input, the output is a sum of all signals, and if one signal is 0, then the other signals don't loose strength, just a 0 is added to them so they are unchanged. It looks to me like that would be more convinient way to control multiple inputs, but I might be missing something...

    • @CarambolageTV
      @CarambolageTV 10 місяців тому

      Indeed, the modulation signal seems to influence the output even at its lowest intensity level for some reason. The oscilloscope shows around 50mV p2p and the effect is still audible. Of course I can plug the cable off, but I'd like to implement this circuit in synth where the Modulation CV input is normalled to PWM Intensity pot. Is there a way to make this possible without using an additional switch or a switchable potentiometer?

    • @kellerdev2905
      @kellerdev2905 10 місяців тому

      @@CarambolageTV yeah, the way I did it was to have one pot with constant voltage, and one to attenuate the voltage coming from the CV(connected as voltage divider so that it goes to 0). They both go to the inverting input of an opamp and get summed up. Then the result is used in the comparator to compare with the saw wave. You have to choose values for the resistor that are going to the inverting. Input of the summing opamp, so that when the constant voltage pot is at max, the voltage that goes to the comparator is a little below 5volts, so that for a 5v peak to peak you have 100% duty cycle. I have to check the values I used but you can find in my vco video what I did if you want
      P.p. apparently I used +-12 going to one pot for the constant duty cycle with 100k resistor to the inverting input, and one pot as attenuator for the CV modulation with 47kOhms to the inverting input. These values gave pretty reasonable ranges

  • @fruitpowerofeden-2022
    @fruitpowerofeden-2022 3 роки тому +1

    Darn. I was experiencing offset fluctuations. Solution using a comparator. Fantastic. Thanks :)

  • @sharg0
    @sharg0 3 роки тому +1

    Thank you! Now I finally understand why the square wave from a synth doesn't have flat tops!
    (This have buggered me but I've never tried to dig in to the cause and the few times I've asked about it no answer been given.)

  • @carneeki
    @carneeki 6 місяців тому

    If I'm wanting to add the triangle wave to the Shapes V2 schematic at around 14:00, I should be able to tap the output from the sawtooth output buffer opamp before the 1K resistor as the opamp doesn't draw any current yes? That would then feed the inverting opamp and so on in the triangle converter.
    Thanks in advance :)
    Edit: I should say thru the cap and then into the inverter of the two opamp of the triangle converter

  • @usaroman
    @usaroman 10 місяців тому

    Hi Moritz, Im sure this has been asked and maybe I am not using the right keywords and google can't deliver the goods. I want to learn how to select the appropriate series of caps for diy projects but am overwhelmed by the dozen or so choices for say 10uf 16v caps all bearing practically the same spec. There are data sheets for each series and maybe that's a good staring point but I could not find any guidance on the subject. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks 🎉🎉🎉

  • @Galova
    @Galova 3 роки тому +1

    Moritz thank you so damn much! I've just got the idea how it works finally... thanks to you.

  • @silic1um127
    @silic1um127 3 роки тому +2

    great video as always, already ordered the pieces to complete my vco :)
    one question, where do you buy your patch cables?

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому

      thomann has a cheap bundle of 6 cables for 10€, those are the ones i use currently.

  • @ronasca-dev
    @ronasca-dev 3 роки тому +1

    Dude.. I like so much your videos and manner explanations.

  • @gamma_noize
    @gamma_noize 3 роки тому +1

    Nice vids! I‘ve read a few books on the topic and none of them explain it as well as your VCO and VCF series!

  • @festivalgdluz8151
    @festivalgdluz8151 Рік тому

    What is the maximum frequency you can up the pwm without lose his shape???

  • @ldandco
    @ldandco 3 роки тому +2

    great video, thank you

  • @stalkerfromvoronezh4493
    @stalkerfromvoronezh4493 3 роки тому

    Modulation by sound - ckass D apmlifier basic

  • @chopov11
    @chopov11 3 роки тому +1

    THANKS please make more

  • @dreamyrhodes
    @dreamyrhodes 3 роки тому +1

    Btw I find it impressive the effort you take with these videos, justifies the waiting time between the episodes. I suppose it's quite some work. Anyhow, I'd still have a request, maybe you could give it a thought?
    Could you maybe give an overview of the components you have? What stuff you buy and where? There are thousands and thousands of resources and types of components that all more or less do the same and I am quite lost where to start buying things. For instance you have certain transistors in your BOM and use certain chips. Did you pick them from other schematics or, you say you're doing a lot of trial and error, have you just bought a random assortment somewhere and just tried it?

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому +1

      i have a beginner's shopping list on my patreon where i list all the components that i use regularly - but maybe i'll do another livestream where i go through my stash.

  • @soejrd24978
    @soejrd24978 3 роки тому +1

    Simple LFO circuit next? Like just a triangle

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому +5

      i plan on doing one using only transistors, no ICs. but next video will be on improvements to my diode ladder filter!

    • @soejrd24978
      @soejrd24978 3 роки тому

      @@MoritzKlein0 yaay

  • @dunichtich100
    @dunichtich100 3 роки тому +2

    Nice! A new Video! 😍👌🏼

  • @yumm95
    @yumm95 2 роки тому

    Could you add gate and hard sync by using nand instead of invert gates

  • @woosix7735
    @woosix7735 2 роки тому

    For me that’s a feature not a bug, since it removes dc

  • @paulevans4334
    @paulevans4334 3 роки тому +1

    I don't pretend to know how it works but I know it sounds great

  • @Galova
    @Galova 3 роки тому +1

    btw do you have some soundcloud account or something? I also like your electronika musical exercises a lot

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому

      yeah, soundcloud is linked on my channel page!

  • @kapser2210
    @kapser2210 3 роки тому +1

    As always your videos are super clear and incredibly educational

  • @boris5448
    @boris5448 3 роки тому +1

    Again such a great video, btw it looks like your patreon link doesnt work in the description. Atleast it doesn't work for me

  • @luketube7207
    @luketube7207 Рік тому +1

    I was wondering, have you done an episode of building the case for it?

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  Рік тому +1

      which case?

    • @luketube7207
      @luketube7207 Рік тому +1

      @@MoritzKlein0 for the VCO as I would love to put one of these together with my dad

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  Рік тому +1

      @@luketube7207 oh i see. not really - there‘s the 3x VCO video where i explain how to make it into a module, but nothing like a standalone box, sorry!

    • @luketube7207
      @luketube7207 Рік тому +1

      @@MoritzKlein0 it's ok, I'm sure I'll find a way after I start this. It's sooooo cooool by the way, I can't stop geeking out over this lol

  • @zez000
    @zez000 2 роки тому

    it would be nice to have a sine wave though

  • @Asdayasman
    @Asdayasman 2 роки тому

    Well this sent me on a journey. I wondered what sort of circuit would be required to fix a DC offset on an asymmetric waveform. I figured if you invert the waveform and then store the peak voltage of each mirror in a capacitor, then average those out, and use that as a correction offset to a summer, it'd be good.
    Turns out I'm very stupid and know nothing because it took me two hours of futzing in a circuit simulator, but I did it. I'm still not happy with the values of the resistors and caps and such because as mentioned I know nothing, and at circuit startup for some reason the high side cap peaks to over 20V (with a max of 12V anywhere in the circuit), and the low side circuit has a stray voltage in the microvolts I can't seem to get rid of, and it uses eleven op amps, and I need a resistor twice as big as I would have thought for the amplification stage, but I had fun.
    I learnt a bunch about op amps, and some even more basic things about voltage dividers. I think I could get rid of two of the op amps if I could figure out a way to double the +ve rail voltage too...

  • @ThermalWorld_
    @ThermalWorld_ 3 роки тому +1

    Hi Moritz 🙂
    I was trying to reproduce the circuit in the breadboard.
    I wanted to ask you the single potentiometer right in your breadboard, what is its value? 1Mohm? that is the potentiometer of the input Fm in?
    "Sorry but I'm a little bit confused with the schematic and with the transfer of the circuit to the breadboard" 😅

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому +1

      that's the 100k coarse tuning potentiometer - top left corner on the schematic!

    • @ThermalWorld_
      @ThermalWorld_ 3 роки тому +1

      Thanks for the reply.
      I will be waiting for more content like this, I find it useful and very informative and it is giving me the inspiration to jump into the adventure of building analog synthesizers 😁

  • @caraffa3621
    @caraffa3621 3 роки тому

    Hi! I've found your channel a while ago and you create very interesting content, even totall noob can learn electronics and something about music here but i didn't want to talk about it right now. I wanted to solve one problem, I'm making project (but that's not important) and I got a hint that digital synthesizers work in a similar way that I would like to achieve in my software. Therefore, do you know any resources worth recommending to help me understand how digital synthesizers work? I mean on the level of memory, buffers, pointers etc. ?

  • @silic1um127
    @silic1um127 3 роки тому

    hey moritz, one noob question, at the square wave voltage divider i used the 100k paired with a 61k resistor because it was the only value available at time, will it affect badly my output?

  • @sanderbelmans6788
    @sanderbelmans6788 3 роки тому +1

    I have the same PWM bug in my oscillator. I was aware of it, but I didn't know it was actually an issue! Thank you for pointing that out! Also, nice video as always, I look forward to every new video you put out.

    • @possible-realities
      @possible-realities 3 роки тому

      It's not an issue as long as the rest of the signal chain can handle the voltage range that comes out of the oscillator. As someone else said, there will probably come another DC blocking capacitor later in the signal chain, and then you're back to this anyway, so I think it's best to just accept the increased voltage range.

    • @sanderbelmans6788
      @sanderbelmans6788 3 роки тому

      @@possible-realities That's a fair point... I'll have to see what I do with it!

  • @fishyrising
    @fishyrising 3 роки тому

    Did you got rid of the thermistors?

  • @Roderick_Legato
    @Roderick_Legato 3 роки тому

    The more general definition of a comparator's behavior is: the input with the higher voltage applied determines the output polarity.

  • @gymprofessor329
    @gymprofessor329 3 роки тому

    Please build a super simple analog fm synth! It would be super cool to show the concepts and I'm sure the sounds would be interesting. Even two operators could be a solid synth voice.

  • @danielmendes5682
    @danielmendes5682 3 роки тому +1

    great job as always Moritz! one question, how do you quantize your sound? i know that you have a korg sq-1, but what about your traditional step sequencer, how do you quantize it? thanks in advance

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому +1

      normally i don't, except for when i used my logic gate arpeggiator/quantizer.

    • @danielmendes5682
      @danielmendes5682 3 роки тому

      @@MoritzKlein0 i see, but then when you dont use your arpeggiator you do it just tuning by ear?

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому

      @@danielmendes5682 yep! though i definitely find myself reaching for the sq-1 or beatstep pro much more often, just for convenience reasons..

  • @suncrafterspielt9479
    @suncrafterspielt9479 3 роки тому +1

    Good old boiler room vibes

  • @tinygriffy
    @tinygriffy 3 роки тому +1

    Well done ! Thank you !

  • @VladoT
    @VladoT 3 роки тому +1

    The last demo was great!

  • @eto_fedos
    @eto_fedos 3 роки тому

    Pls man do smth like overview of your system and modules

  • @dcsapporo
    @dcsapporo 3 роки тому +1

    Brilliant!

  • @dreamyrhodes
    @dreamyrhodes 3 роки тому +1

    Cool a new video!

  • @ellopropello
    @ellopropello 3 роки тому +1

    awesome!!!

  • @marieprassler4004
    @marieprassler4004 3 роки тому +1

    👏🏼👏🏼

  • @infiniteoffset
    @infiniteoffset 3 роки тому

    Another great video! Good job dude!

  • @granumuse7847
    @granumuse7847 3 роки тому +1

    Really guessed the output impedance solution!!!
    WOW man! This is incredible!!!
    Thank you ❤️

  • @ssnlp44
    @ssnlp44 3 роки тому

    Thank you Moritz.

  • @Roderick_Legato
    @Roderick_Legato 3 роки тому +1

    14:39 Nick Batt is very happy.

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому

      thought of that as well!

    • @lundsweden
      @lundsweden 2 роки тому +1

      Nothing like a bit of PWM in the morning 😉

  • @MrKobie
    @MrKobie 3 роки тому

    Hi Moritz - the link to your Patreon page has a few bad ascii characters at the end.

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому

      i think i fixed it already - still doesn’t work for you?

    • @MrKobie
      @MrKobie 3 роки тому +1

      @@MoritzKlein0 Yes, looks good now!

  • @MJLouer
    @MJLouer 3 роки тому

    Hi Moritz, I first like too apologize for asking here on youtube. probably not the place to drop questions, but you would help me very much by pointing me in the right direction on solving the pwm drop bug as explained in your video at 11:00. I have setup everything the same as in your video (250k pot, 68k, 14k to ground etc etc) but still is have this wave drop. what else could be wrong, or what other things can I check? thank you in advance. kind regards.

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому

      not exactly sure which bug you mean - could you elaborate?

    • @MJLouer
      @MJLouer 3 роки тому +1

      @@MoritzKlein0 Hi Moritz, Thanks for your reply, sorry for my late reaction. In your video you mention the PWM bug, which causes the square wave to go down (pushed down below the center of the oscilloscope) as soon as you turn the pwm knob (the one with the 100k resistor. you solved this issue with the 68k and 14k resistor to ground. You also said: lets fix this annoying bug or something :). I still have this issue where the wave drops around 4 volts below the center. Maybe this helps? check 1:20 (increase width, moving downwards, big DC offset issue. your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Moritz. Waiting on your reply :) no rush though

    • @MoritzKlein0
      @MoritzKlein0  3 роки тому +1

      @@MJLouer please check if your oscilloscope input is set to „ac coupled“. if so, change it to „dc coupled“ and see if the problem goes away!

    • @MJLouer
      @MJLouer 3 роки тому +1

      @@MoritzKlein0 Hi Moritz, thanks for your quick response. I will try this as soon as I get home :). I will let you know. If that is the case, then I can start moving the VCO from breadboard to PCB. Thanks again.

    • @MJLouer
      @MJLouer 3 роки тому +1

      @@MoritzKlein0 Hi Moritz, Yes!! it did, thank you so much. That was spot on :) but does that mean that I have still some work to do to fix this issue in the circuit? or is there no need to?
      Because when I route the square output from the VCO to the high/low pass resonance filter i build (also from your video's), and hook my oscilloscope up to the output jack, this issue is back for some reason. thanks again Moritz and have a pleasant day.

  • @ff-qf1th
    @ff-qf1th 3 роки тому

    3:29

  • @graealex
    @graealex 3 роки тому +2

    Not sure if those fluid analogies are really helping that much. I found them to only be appropriate for DC. It's hard to explain via fluids why a capacitor will pass AC, while an inductor will resist AC.

    • @LavendelBrei
      @LavendelBrei 3 роки тому +3

      I love them. I think his earlier vids explained the caps well and Moritz's version of the fluid analogy is the thing that helped me understand some of these concepts better after trying to get them from various books which quickly abandon the water analogy.

    • @graealex
      @graealex 3 роки тому +2

      @@LavendelBrei As the Wikipedia article on the issue puts it: "The hydraulic analogy can give a mistaken sense of understanding that will be exposed once a detailed description of electrical circuit theory is required."
      This is especially true for filters and signal theory when talking about AC. Most of the analogies are kind-of-true, but only kind of.

    • @atomictraveller
      @atomictraveller 3 роки тому +1

      i think it was c. 1992 that i started to study electronics for audio synthesis, it has taken me so long to establish a practical comprehension that in the meantime i have exhausted digital dsp synthesis. recently i've searched out dozens of videos, watched a dozen explanations of 555s, transistor based amplifiers, since understanding all concepts presented thoroughly, and i believe i finally understand what has prevented my learning all along these decaces.
      i will share that here, now, for us all.
      not having enough freaking dosh to purchase the actual stuff and be doing that.
      be water my friend.

    • @graealex
      @graealex 3 роки тому

      @@atomictraveller Absolutely true. And to be honest, even Ohms law only really clicked for me when I took a lab supply and resistors and began experimenting.

  • @nikl_dreamer
    @nikl_dreamer Рік тому

    sine wavehow to make a sine? I want to use your circuit, but I need another sine wave

  • @BUCKSINSIX69
    @BUCKSINSIX69 3 роки тому +2

    Thank you Moritz, again great stuff