The addiction factor is probably the most logical reason to abstain. So why are caffeinated sodas and energy drinks not included? “ For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.” D&C 58:26
Maybe caffeinated drinks weren't really a thing back then? I don't know, personally, I don't drink caffeinated drinks, but that's a splitting subject among members.
You did not listen. He never said that. Eatch the video again please I know some lds drink coffee its a personal choice. Coffee doesnt make you fornicate or beat Ur wife. Coffee doesnt contribute to cancer nearly as much as cigs and other tobacco But it does cause a lot of digestive problems and can lead to hypertension.i have neacer read any where in DNC whenre it talks about no coffee. Just no hot drinks in general. But i have also not read DNC front to back.
@@bigguns126 You’re right actually, there is nothing in the D&C that says you shouldn’t drink coffee or tea. It is a later revelation. People were confused by what “hot drinks” meant so they asked Joseph and he clarified it meant coffee and tea.
I had a nephew who (in part) went inactive because he was drinking green tea for the health benefits; when he told the counselor in the bishopric, the counselor went ballistic. The irony is that the counselor was slamming down 6 energy drinks a day, each of which had about 10x the caffeine content of green tea. My nephew thought that was a touch hypocritical, the counselor thought he was perfectly OK. Likewise, we have lots of Mormons who "obey" the word of wisdom as currently interpreted and enforced who slam down Big Gulps and plenty of animal products (Beef, chicken, etc.) and that is perfectly fine. Meantime, the clear admonition of the WOW (meat only sparingly or not at all) is completely disregarded by active Mormons, because this portion of the revelation has never been enforced. Meanwhile, 7th day Adventists who allow coffee/tea but encourage Vegan/Vegetarian diet are now SURPASSING Mormons on just about every health study both for longevity, cancer rates and overall healthiness. Kind of makes you think how the Brethren ought to be teaching this doesn't it?
For the record serious Adventist’s don’t drink tea or coffee either. Fully agree with your sentiments on the WoW meat hypocrisy. Have always wondered how that happened.
@@AmericanGreg As a church we all need to read the D&C more carefully. Deacons quarum is reasponcible for cleaning the church buildings, not elders ;-)
I’m a very active member and I agree. The culture of the church is not okay in some places. Which is why I would never move to Utah or Cardston. But remember it’s culture. The church is true, even when members do hypocritical things like this. I’m grateful I was raised in a place with less practising members. It allowed us to cling more to the doctrine and uplift each other, rather than cling to what the general culture of the area says is and isn’t okay. Has anyone else noticed this trend? I find it in a lot of religions. When a huge area is populated by mainly one religion a lot of culture sneaks in that isn’t really in accordance to what the church teaches and the environment often becomes more toxic because people aren’t perfect. I should research this more and write an essay on it sometime... but seriously, anyone else notice this?
Speaking from a Muslims perspective... Coffee was founded in Ethiopia and was taken into Arabia by Yemeni traders and merchants. The scholars at the time deemed the new drink known as "Qa'wah" to be haraam (forbidden/impermissible) because it was believed that coffee was addictive and alters the mind, similar to alcohol (which is also impermissible) and those found to be drinking coffee were jailed, heavily fined, and sometimes publicly lashed. It remained this way for nearly two centuries, but ultimately that prohibition on coffee was lifted by an Ottoman sultan at the time and has been enjoyed by Muslims since. Coffee was discovered long after the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), but I think it would have been interesting to see his stance on coffee and if he would have prohibited it like he did with alcohol and other mind altering substances.
In 3:13 "I don't know exactly why we're asked not to drink coffe or tea, but I belive Joseph Smith was a prophet so I'm not gonna drink it" In my opinion, that statement captures the essence of mormon faith, based not in scripture but in men
@@brettmajeske3525 It seems that you know more about this topic than the author of this video. You should put more references to help your Mormon brothers to give a better answer on this topic.
@@josueaguilar5046 David Snell could have worded things differently, but he seems to know what he is talking about. He mentioned the Word of Wisdom in a way I thought was obvious said it was Scripture. I was only clarifying.
@@brettmajeske3525 But in the end, the final authority on this subject for David Snell, is Joshep Smith (In my opinion a self-proclaimed prophet). That's my point
I am a latter day Saint/Mormon. And I personally think the stance of coffee and tea by the church is terrible. It was never revealed to Joseph Smith as a law of worthiness in order to get baptized or go to the temple. I think the stance is far more destructive than beneficial.
Personally I never felt like it was a huge deal. I served a mission in Taiwan where drinking tea is a cultural thing, and everyone drinks it several times a day. Sometimes we'd be offered tea several times in just one hour of knocking doors. We'd politely decline and explain that we don't drink tea, and they were never offended. It was never really a stumbling block for investigators either. But smoking and alcohol - now those were really tough for people to let go of. I can certainly understand where you're coming from though; I have many LDS friends who drink coffee and/or tea because they feel the same way. But for me it's not a big deal, so I don't really mind avoiding it.
How on Earth could that be destructive? Caffeine is an addictive substance and it has negative neurological and cardiovascular effects, but even if that wasn't the case and it was actually good for you, how would it be destructive? That is a strong word. Even if they were against eating bananas, even that is not destructive.
Supposedly, the word of wisdom is meant to keep us healthy. Yet drinking coffee and tea, which have been proven through science to be healthy when consumed in moderation is grounds for revoking a temple recommend, whereas being morbidly obese is not. This leads me to think that the prohibition on coffee is more about control of the masses and less about well-being.
I think it’s much more related to the time the revelation was given. It isn’t explicitly coffee and tea, just “hot drinks”. As new products like energy drinks, and maybe even soda, have come to fruition since the revelation, I think that despite not being a ‘hot’ drink, the similar contents should have them included perhaps?
@@simon_carrick8198 If that is the case, then why has the policy not been updated to reflect our evolving culture? As of the writing of this sentence, regardless of how you define what a “hot drink” is, drinking coffee is grounds (no pun intended) for revoking a temple recommend whereas drinking energy drinks is not.
I was really hoping for an answer about coffee. I see my family down one soda after another, but would look down on me for drinking one cup of coffee. From what i read coffee is good for you as long as you don't put a bunch of sugar and cream in it. No one can ever explain this to me.
Tanya Barron My grandma drank coffee all her life. More like a espresso no sugar no cream. She lived till 94 years old. I’m almost 40. I drank coffee since I was a teen. I’m super healthy and have no problems sleeping or any kind.
@@liliadavtyan3042 My great grandfather smoked all the time and lived to 100 on the dot. Huh, maybe by your logic smoking is not a problem either. Caffeine actually speeds up your heart. Take from it what you will
Ya the same thing happens to me. They don't like if I drink tea or coffee or alcohol, but they drink a lot of soda. I feel like the Word Of Wisdom needs an update, and really should go back to the way it was originally written, not by commandment or constraint, but by way of invitation.
@@rambomoore381 do you have any proof coffee is harming people more than free food, sugar! Let's talks about sex addict may be we should stop having sex cause it's addictive
It takes some willpower to give it up. My parents drank a coffee tasting drink called "Postum" to be a substitute, that was made from wheat. postum.com/shop/
I’ve had both Postum and Pero. I don’t remember the ingredients right off the bat but Postum does have molasses in it. I much prefer Pero; it tastes similar to coffee in my opinion. Postum is good but it’s more of a nighttime drink I’d say.
@@bagnasbayabas The word of wisdom never spells out caffeine. It said hot drinks, which has been interpreted to mean tea and coffee. Of course they make decaffeinated of both. It may have to do with not just caffeine, but the addictive nature of the drinks and their effect on your health.
I found the word of wisdom in the Bible. I understand it. Context: I'm a new convert (Baptized in Sep of 2021) who grew up as a Baptist. Anyway in Leviticus 10:8-11 you'll find the real reason for avoiding "strong drink" or any mind or body altering substances.
@Anti Anti Mormon It’s funny how you people brag about living longer as if it’s a good thing to be attached to this world. Also, are you aware that Jesus and his disciples drank wine? Obviously he didn’t get drunk, but none the less wine was a common beverage back then to enjoy with meals, as it is now. Keep following your cult polygamists though :) you’re so much holier then everyone else! I also find it hilarious how you call yourself a saint, as if everyone is capable of being a saint. Saints live lives of service and obedience to God, which is the complete opposite of your adulterous cult leaders.
@@xiyecho7164 Jesus drank wine but he didn't eat bacon, pork chops, or clams. None of which is bad for you. Who knows why the Jews could not eat those things other than God said not to. It's not about living longer its about living healthier. People who smoke and drink tend to die earlier because they are unhealthy. Being healthy in your older years is a great thing.
I don't think that verse was referring to fermented alcohol wine. There is a difference between drinking fresh from the grape and drinking fermented alcohol wine that have been left sitting for months inside vats. So I don't think Mild drinks are about fermented wine drinks.
@@germanslice It absolutely was about beer. Beer was fine with the WoW until 1921. A lot of prophets drank beer. Joseph Smith died with a belly full of wine. Brigham Young owned a whiskey distillery. The WoW has changed a lot. And it could change again, if rumors about GC are to be believed.
It matters not to me how the church leaders decided to do things way back in the early days of the church before the WOW came out from the Lord. The Lord teaches his saints line by line, precept by precept to where things are today in the church. Why would I be concerned about things before the WOW came out? Revelation has always been progressive in this church according to the needs and the will of God to his people.
@@germanslice Sure. I mean, tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself. I was just pointing out that your claim that the original WoW wasn't referring to beer is wrong. And founded on nothing but your own desire to reaffirm what you think you already know.
@@cmacdonald1197 Is doesn't say the members to not eat meat, it says to eat it "sparingly". Sparingly is a bit subjective but i try to follow this new commandment that is specifically for LDS people only. I eat it sparingly, maybe 3-4 times per day
I hear what you are saying here that you guys view abstinence from alcohol and coffee as a modern revelation for our time. It’s something that always confused me since many righteous bible characters drank wine. What I don’t understand is that in 2 Timothy 3:16 it says that “all scripture is inspired of God.” If every verse in the bible is already inspired of God then why would he override some of them with new revelation? 1 Timothy 5:23 “do not drink water any longer but take a little wine for the sake of our stomach and your frequent cases of sickness.” So if that verse is inspired by God, what would inspire him to change his thinking and decide to forbid it’s use? It all seems a bit odd to me
Wine is so heavily featured in the bible because the water near them was often not clean enough to drink and also the wine of the new testament is more like grape juice than wine.
Not only was the water dirty, alcohol has, well, alcohol in it, which is a natural disinfectant. They didn't have antibiotics back then. If you see what alcohol does to people, the addiction, the pain, all of the issues it causes, then you would understand why the Lord would tell us not to drink it. The word of wisdom is that, a word of wisdom. The wisdom is to take care of your bodies and your minds by what you take into it. If you drink a Coke sometimes, no bid deal, but if you drink a coke every day, or twice a day or more, then it isn't good for you. The key is balance, plus, specific things have been prohibited.
Bible says don't be drunk from wine....so...wine = Alcohol...Jesus turned water into wine....conclusion... Bible does not say you shouldn't drink. If you don't want to drink.....fine.... but don't say it's what the Bible teaches....it makes you a false teacher
@@monocuco818 wine is not strong enough to disinfect. Whisky is but they didn't have that. Brewing beer does kill germs that's why medieval people drank beer instead of water...city water usually was dirty. but Bible clearly says wine is ok...being drunk is not
The roman catholic actually forbid coffee at the beginning the after the poop tried it he said that we should allow the infidel to have this great drink by themselves
Alma 32 21 “And now as I said concerning faith-faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.” For those whose need an exact answer….
I'll attempt again to post a comment and question. Last 5 attempts have gone unanswered. Being blocked? Tea is prohibited, however herbal tea is ok. So if herbal tea is ok because it has no caffeine, why is decaffeinated black tea not allowed? Yerba Mate, the national tea drink of Argentina and Uruguay though having more caffeine than black tea is permitted. Why are chemical concoctions like energy drinks ok, while natural black tea prohibited? Is drinking a cup of tea really a sin??
The word of wisdom does not specify coffee and tea. It says “hot drinks”. So I would say if that’s the case we shouldn’t be drinking anything that is hot???
Olden day Mormon prophets did forbid hot cocoa as well, but that was taken off the word of wisdom at some point. If that was removed, why can’t we also remove other things, especially if health benefits have been proven for them 🤔
I’m so glad that my Father in Heaven is interested in what I’m eating. These substances have no redeeming features and many dangers to our health. I include all caffeinated drinks.
I loved this. And I love how you acknowledge the fact that we don’t always understand why we are commanded to do certain things, and that’s ok. All religions in general are riddled with these types of things. It’s so important to God, I think, for us to show Him that we will have faith in all things he asks of us, even if we don’t fully understand why. Great video! Seriously though...3:30...hilarious! Bahaha!
Have fun continuing to submit to some arbitrary and asinine God who just gives rules just to see if you'll obey. Doesn't sound like the behavior of a omniscient being.
Blind, mindless, obedience to a man oh I mean “prophet” that saw things other religions claim as well. Taking a world religion class will open your eyes to what’s really going on with organized religion. It’s to keep us separate. If one man was so Devine why isn’t every other human? Just food for thought.
Yes, coffee and tea are way healthier than the drinks now interpreted to be banned beverages by the now binding Word of Wisdom. I really wish the Word of Wisdom were wiser.
I can empathize with the sentiment behind your comment. Making a switch from one beverage to another, especially from a highly caffeinated and sugary drink like Mountain Dew to coffee, can indeed be viewed as a positive step towards reducing sugar intake and potentially improving overall health. It seems like you've found that switching to coffee was a beneficial decision for you, and you may have experienced improved energy levels, better focus, or other benefits associated with moderate coffee consumption. This could be due to the lower sugar content in coffee compared to Mountain Dew. However, it's important to be aware of the logical fallacy known as "anecdotal evidence." Anecdotal evidence involves using personal experiences or isolated cases to make a broader point. While your positive experience with switching to coffee is valuable and meaningful to you, it doesn't necessarily prove that coffee is universally better than Mountain Dew for everyone or that it's the best choice for managing caffeine intake. Individual experiences can vary widely, and what works for one person may not work for another based on various factors such as health conditions, dietary preferences, or tolerance to caffeine. It's essential to consider a broader range of scientific evidence and consult with healthcare professionals for personalized advice on dietary choices and beverage consumption.
Opinion. To me it seems pretty clear. Caffeine is addictive and it temporarily speeds up your heart (your heart only has so many beats in its lifetime). Coffee and Tea have the addictive caffeine so that is why mormons are advised to steer clear of it, for their own health and not give in to addiction. "Then why isn't Coke, Monsters and Bang energy drinks not on the list"? Well my ignorant friend, those weren't around in Broseph Smith's time.
Here another approach to coffee that the church should take..(thank you so God for making this delicious drink for us for it gives energy and it feels good)
If I'm not mistaken the word of wisdom says hot drinks. It was later interpreted as tea and coffee. Does anyone know who presented that interpretation? Thanks.
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When the revelation was given (1800’s) there wasn’t many other hot drinks except tea and coffee, therefore we sort of go with that. No hot chocolate in the 1800’s for example
An important point about this topic is that highly-caffeinated drinks can, a lot of times, take away our agency. I mean I’ve heard many, many stories of people being totally controlled and directed by whether they have “gotten their coffee” or not. You don’t have the thought-process of, “do I want to spend money this morning?” No, it’s already been decided for you. It’s going to take away a lot of the choices that they could be making because it’s addictive. In the end, I believe this isn’t good and that it’s a commandment because God wants us to keep our agency and independence. We should be able to act reasonably without pumping chemicals into our brains every day. Agency is important.
So interesting to hear you say Soda wasn’t included. I know mtn dew in Canada doesn’t have caffeine and it does in the states. The Mormon lore was that on of the apostles (don’t remember who). Liked it so much so contacted to ask if it could be made without. Leading to it being removed in Canada. As well every event or activity never had coke or Pepsi unless it was the caffeine free version. I remember getting in trouble for drinking coke as a kid. A lot of root beer.
What!? I never heard that story. That’s hilarious, I doubt it’s true, but who knows! I haven’t looked into it! Yeah I was taught that you shouldn’t drink coke, it was something President Hinkley was pretty adamant about, but we were later told it is not an official doctrine, more just how President Hinkley interpreted the word of wisdom. I’ve always thought my family was really funny because you can tell which parent had more influence on which child by whether or not they drink coke. My dad, middle sister, and younger brother do, and my mom, oldest sister, and I do not. It’s not wrong though. 😂
There are atleast 2 atleast 2 reasons not to drink cofe 1) It can cause heart issiues and bad sleep at night in extreme cases insomnia 2) generally any hot drinks aren't good for your stomach everything should be around room temperature evan too cold is not good for you.
1- many people degist coffee well making it easy for them to sleep and some others want to have coffee to stay up late studying and working 2- we eat hot soup 🍲 and sandwiches all the time! We warm our food constantly so that is wrong
I dont think its the caffeine they avoid(from what Ive seen). They will consume caffeine but avoid coffee whether its caffinated or not. And Ive seen some drink tea. Idk I think its all over the place with them. They seem to follow rules and not know why and end up not making sense about what they do.
It’s actually a massive issue (coming from an ex-mo). See, the Mormon church discourages “anti-Mormon media” which essentially means any website that is not from the church itself. Because of the insane lack of objective, unbiased sources, a lot of members just follow rules without understanding why they do. When I asked my brother why he was steadfast in following the rule of no coffee or tea, yet he would drink a crap ton of soda and energy drinks, he struggled to answer. I encouraged him to look up health benefits of coffee and tea, as well as health risks from soda and energy drinks. He did, and he was puzzled why the word of wisdom was set up the way it is. He looked into more on the Mormon church (yes, without looking at articles with a blatant anti-Mormon bias. It isn’t hard to find articles that present info on the church, even if the info is negative, completely objectively) and ended up finding many flaws, such as Mormon prophets being heavy proponents for slavery, older Mormon teachings from the 70’s on how you can “change homosexuals” to be straight, Mormon prophets stating blood atonement as an eternal doctrine, Joseph Smith being a known drunkard himself, even going as far as to be drunk whilst composing the Book of Mormon at least three times, and a lot more. He left the church because of this research, it’s hard, but he would rather go through tough times than live in a lie. I’m glad I could get him to open up, he was always more partial to listening to me than the rest of my family. I wish I could get all of them out of it, I know they’re good people deep down, they’ve just been so heavily groomed into the church that their minds have completely shut down.
Lepracy jokes really make heads roll... I am an ex-mormon who works as a coffee roaster and wholesaler. I have a good view of why it is that coffee made that list if you'd like to hear me out?
@@davidsnell2605 Coffee in the early 19th century was often drank in the alehouse. Men would drink coffee to stay up all night getting drunk and rowdy. The spread of coffee to Europe and America coincided with the spread of revolutionary ideals (Voltaire allegedly drank 40-50 cups a day!) It may only be my pet theory, but members of a religious sect that created strong hateful feelings in their community may have been... challenged, so to speak, while they were in the alehouse. Men could hear rumors the prophet rather they not hear, or even fist fights could have broken out. I don't consider those too implausible. So, my guess is that by eliminating drinks that would often be drunk in alehouses like coffee and tea the prophet could hopefully minimize the chance of these incidences.
Yes, however at the time the hot drinks people were having all the time during meals was coffee and tea, and the prophet a couple months after D&C 89 explicitly stated it was referring to coffee and tea. Now general authorities are pretty clear about how it is interpreted, no coffee and tea.
I am not a mormon but can’t the rueles be simply what they belived at that time to be unheathy? Don’t assume bad intent if you want to change someones opinion.
I’m not sure what exactly your question is. We are taught, especially recently with President Nelson, to use the full name of the church whenever possible. We are members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, not “Mormon” or “LDS.” This is important to us because the full name tells what we believe and worship... Jesus Christ. We could say we are Christians, because we are, but if you tell someone your Christian they are going to think you have different beliefs than you do since you are a member of the church, and some of our doctrines are quite different that many other Christian beliefs. I personally am uncomfortable being called “Mormon” because of the history of the word. For one, we aren’t Mormon, Mormon was just the dude that read all the ancient records of the Americas and compiled them into one book (The Book of Mormon). And secondly, the term ‘Mormon’ was originally used as a very derogatory term, then we just kind of took it on in the church and we’re trying to change that now (It’s similar to calling Native Americans “Indians” though admittedly not exactly the same). As for LDS, we are not supposed to use it because it still cuts out the Christ part of our church’s name, but MANY members still use it simply because it’s a mouthful to say the whole thing everytime you mention the church. I wish we had an official shortened name, like Christians, Muslims, Buddists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. but we don’t it’s just Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Personally, I use the term “member” most often when talking in church circles, but admittedly that has the same problems as “LDS.” So I guess the gist if my comment is steer clear when you can from using the word ‘Mormon’ since it’s not really nice, but of course any member will understand. As for LDS, no one is going to be offended if you ask if they are LDS. But if you want to make a fast friend use the full name, we know it’s a mouthful, but it is important to us.
A strong correlation that I am making is discussed in Michael Pollan's book, "This Is Your Mind On Plants." It gives a great historical context on caffeine (esp. coffee). In England during the 17th century, coffeehouses began to emerge as social spaces where people gathered for discussions, readings, and debates. Similar to the concerns in the Ottoman Empire, these coffeehouses were seen by some authorities as potential centers for political dissent. However, unlike the extreme measures taken in the Ottoman Empire, coffeehouses in England were not banned, but there were debates and concerns about the influence they might have on public discourse. In the United States, Pollan touches on the role of coffee in the temperance movement during the 19th century. As alcohol consumption came under scrutiny, coffee was promoted as an alternative beverage. Coffeehouses were seen as places where people could gather and socialize without the perceived negative effects of alcohol. These historical examples illustrate how coffee and its consumption have been intertwined with cultural, social, and political developments in different societies throughout history.
Bro what? It's even stupider than I thought. The caffeine rationalization made sense to me because, but now your telling me you don't drink it because some guy said so without explaining why?
@@randomizedcontent9461 Jesus did not say to abstain from alcohol completely. Anyone who tries to twist the bible to further their own anti alcohol agenda is twisting the word of god. You can abstain from alcohol or drink responsibly. That and only that is what the bible says. Moderation meaning that youb don't intentionally get intoxicated to the point where you do things you normally wouldn't do. For some people this means one drink is too much...for some people 2 glasses of wine are fine...some people can handle much more and still have control. They will even realise they shouldn't drive anymore...Jesus turned water into wine....if the bible warns that you should NOT be drunk from wine it clearly can't mean grape juice. Moderate consumption of wine is beneficial to tour health. My ex-father in law is a teetotaller and retired pastor. His church did juice for communion however he never tried to use the bible to force his lifestyle choice on others. He preached the gospel but he wouldn't add to it.
@@Dilley_G45 The LDS Word of Wisdom is modern revelation, not Biblical. Though for what it is worth, modern wine has about twice the alcohol of what was drunk back then. Modern wine makers ferment it longer.
Soda is actually horrible for short and long-time health! Back when I was playing a sport in high school, I would quit soda before every season because it was so full of sugar, I knew it was only detrimental when I had to start doing rigorous exercise almost every day. Eventually I started consuming less and less even without a sport season, and the good thing about that is the few times you get it, it’s almost like a treat or reward for special occasions. They’re so gung-ho about coffee and tea, but when I was living in Utah I would see Mormon moms leaving the gas station with massive 48 ounce soda cups 😂😂 wild how skewed their priorities are.
@@elliefuller3667 yeah it's horrendous. I don't drink it, haven't since I was like 11 and my daughter doesn't drink it either. The first time she tried it she cried and she was done with it after that and I'm grateful, and still mad at her father for it...six years later lol
Brigham Young forbid it after he realized that importing tea, coffee and tobacco was costing impoverished early settlers tens of thousands of dollars. He did keep the brewery and distillery going.
(Deuteronomy 14:26) And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, “For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.” (Romans 14:17-18, Bible NIV)
I have a hard time with just quoting scripture at people assuming it's applicable and the be-all end-all. The bible also says... "You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way" Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT. Thankfully, some revelation (if this verse on slaves can even be considered that) changes based on time and circumstances. The verses you quoted from Romans though seems pretty legit!
@@davidsnell2605 Full disclosure, I used to be Mormon, but harbor no ill will (most of my family and extended family is still in the church). In fact, I have really enjoyed most of this video series. Like others said, the kinderhook video was one of the best-done (is that a word?) videos on the subject I have seen. The WOW has always been a tricky one though (for a myriad of reasons). One really obvious one is that we know John the Baptist did not drink, but Jesus and the apostles did drink. Should latter-day saints be held to a "higher" standard than Christ? (I only put "higher" like this because I believe there is nothing wrong with drinking in moderation.) Any who--that is just my two cents, and would love a reply. Once again...I really like what you are doing here. I think many of the misconceptions need to be cleared up so that we can have honest talk and not get into contentious arguments over nothing. :)
@@jacobpotter6490 thanks for the comment. I think this goes back to the principle of continuing revelation. Christ taught not to preach to Gentiles. Yet, he revealed to Peter later on that he should do the opposite. Many commandments are specific to certain times and cultures. For example, if the Law of Moses were given in 2019, I'm sure it would be vastly different than it was anciently. Even if it had been given at the same time anciently, but in Siberia instead of Israel, it would have been vastly different. So the fact that Jesus drank wine, yet we're asked not to, doesn't really bother me. If we believe in modern prophets and continuing revelation, it's not a problem. I don't think it's a question of being held to a higher standard, it's just a question of living in a different time, with different circumstances, and relying on revelation as best we can as opposed to having Christ at our elbows to tell us what to do. This is a very interesting topic and I have plenty of opinions on it. If you'd like to chat feel free to find me and shoot me a message on facebook! Or you can just respond here.
I think parts of the Word of Wisdom need to be revisited. Hot drinks was interpreted a long time ago. Does a supplement including green tea (which has many health benefits) go against the WofW?
I really liked the manner in which you approached this topic, but please let me share my thoughts on the matter. (Colossians 2:16-17) "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Matthew 15:10-11) Jesus himself said, "And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." I'm sorry, but God does not care whether or not you drink coffee. (Genesis 1:29) "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." God did not say, "I give you every herb bearing seed EXCEPT FOR THE COFFEE BEAN!" (Malachi 3:6) "For I am the Lord, I change not..." (James 1:17) "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, WHO DOES NOT CHANGE like shifting shadows. Noah got drunk, and I'm sure he still went to Heaven. Jesus not only created wine, but he then served it to all the wedding guests. Don't tell me that Jesus is now a hypocrite saying, "Do as I say...NOT as I do!" I say this to you in love...Mormonism needs to check itself on all of its legalistic ways. (Romans 10:2-4) "For I bear them (Mormons) record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
@@davidsnell2605 As much as I truly think you're mistaken about the whole coffee issue, I admit that I did get a good chuckle out of the "He had nothing to lose but his limbs" joke. I've always loved a good "bad" joke! (Smile!)
Hahahaha! Sugar actually is very addictive! Eating is addictive! If u go around making everything addictive forbiden by God it means God is not making rules men is making rules
@@freudba1578 The problem with sugar, is that it's in quite literally everything, and requires more of it to have the same harmful effect as other substances (I.E. it isn't as potent). Eating can be addictive, but one does not simply live without eating. We can live without many things, and the few we have chosen to avoid happen to be very harmful.
@@johnwright2217 are trying to convince yourself of lies or you're too scared of facing lies which accepted as truth? Because if yr blood sugar goes only a nach above it's limits for sometimes it can cause you a serious damage
My wife told me tonight she could never be mormon. She loves coffee and cigarettes. I personally do not smoke and could live without coffee. I rarely drink it now due to blood pressure issues.
Just curious. A lady lived with me once and she was a Mormon and she did not eat black pepper. I was just wondering why. She also cooked in a way that I wasn't familiar with like I think she boiled turkey instead of roasting it or grilling it or whatever. I didn't want to offend her so I never asked her about the cooking practices that were unfamiliar to me. Seems I remember her meals were very bland. I don't know if that has something to do with the Mormon religion or if that was just her palate. Thank you
Bland cooking I don't think has to do with being Mormon in and of it's self. I was born and raised Mormon, left at 25. However culturally I think bland cooking is a big thing in Utah and Idaho (which of course are heavily Mormon area's) Because everyone I've known from Utah (and I've known many) from there have cooked very bland meals. As well many friends that have lived in Utah and Idaho have said bland cooking is big up there. I live in Texas right on the border with Louisiana so we have a lot of spice in our cuisine. When I was Mormon I met many Mormons from Utah and Idaho who got a huge culture shock with our cuisine😂
David reminded me of a Beatles parody with his leprosy joke: Changing the words from "Yesterday" Leprosy, all my skin is falling off of me. I'm not half the man I used to be. Oh leprosy, came suddenly... 😂
One is doing something just because somebody told you to, and you do it, unquestioningly, for no other reason. Faith obedience is something like... OK here's what I truly believe: The Book of Mormon is true. Therefore, Joseph Smith must be a prophet of God, which means if he's asking me not to drink tea and coffee, there's a good reason for it, even if I don't know what it is right now. Obedience based on faith. That makes sense? Feel free to ask more questions on our FB chat if you need to.
David Snell: David Snell: You’d better be making double whatever they pay the other two Mormons, bud. So much hustle on the questions. So, you don’t follow a commandment unquestioningly, you follow it because of an already existing framework of beliefs, is that right?
@@seans5289 haha I wish. And yeah I think that's a solid summary when it comes to some of the more abstract commandments like the one discussed in this video (coffee/tea).
@@seans5289 if they want to make the auxiliary commandments their new framework they're free to do so. I don't think that's their purpose but to each his own. We teach that the keystone of our religion is The Book of Mormon, not the fact that we don't drink coffee and tea.
For all the people in the comments saying Mormons drink Red Bulls but not coffee have a valid point. The word of wisdom was created before there were energy drinks and coffee was the most common source of caffeine. I personally avoid excessive amounts of caffeine. There’s plenty of health benefits with it.
I'm not a Mormon but the words Fundamentalism and Legalistic come to mind here - the same two words/mindsets that are responsible for the younger generations disinterested in religion.
The temptation to tell the leprosy joke could have been left out. Most commercial coffees and tea-leaf teas are indeed tuned for addiction and stimulation. People get hooked on coffee, tea, _and_ tobacco and alcohol because of they develop the perception that those provide things they need. A major thing is socialization, but some of those include what we call vitamins and minerals. But it's actually substitutes that they provide, not the real thing. And addiction.
The simplest explanation is that Smith was doing his best to lead the flock as he perceived God would want. He did not have the full list of caffeinated drinks we have today, so not everything is listed. People today who don't have the spirit but want to keep the letter of the law avoid coffee and drink Red Bull. This is the truth: my Uncle Ed was a Mormon and told me about coffee when I was a kid. He explained it was a drug that could be used if needed when you were sick. If you were already immune to coffee you would have to use a stronger drug. I was not a Mormon, ignored the warning, and got severely addicted to coffee. I have often wished I had been a Mormon just to have avoided that drug. Mormons are generally good people and I would not be too unhappy to have Mormons move in next door on both sides.
I thought it just said "hot drinks" which makes sense even my doctor said most tea, coffee, hot chocolate, etc is made too hot and is harmful to the inside of your body.
Quite amazing how a pretty healthy drink like coffee or tea especially green tea will keep you from living with God in the eternities but being a glutton won't. Maybe the church will wake up one day and quit asking that at temple recommend interviews. Any caffeinated drink used to be looked down on but I guess the prophet that changed that must have had a Pepsi addiction. lol The church has been making so many changes I hope that will be the next one.
What came as revelation to Smith was no "hot drinks." Only later "revelation" clarified hot drinks as tea and coffee. So this to me begs several questions perhaps you can answer. 1. Coffee is one of the most scientifically researched beverages out there. The overwhelming consensus of the medical community is that the heavy content of anti-oxidents and other nutrients makes the health benefits far outweigh any risks, which for most people are none. So how is this a Law of Health? 2. If God meant coffee and tea, why did he have to mealy mouth it, why couldn't God have just said to Smith "no coffee or tea"? After all, everyone knew what they were, by Smith's time coffee and tea had been around a long time as popular beverages. I guess that is why we have prophets huh? God has to have someone to say what he meant to say all along. Which of course is why just within Christianity there are over 5000 denominations, they all have their own prophetic take on the perfect word of God scriptures. 3. If the revelation was all about health, why didn't God reveal to Smith the greatest health risk at the time, disease from water-borne microbes? In fact the LDS community had already endured at least one outbreak of cholera before he received the wow. So why didn't God tell Smith to tell everyone to boil water meant for consumption?
It didn’t, because Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Levi Lewis, Emma Smith’s cousin, said he saw Joseph Smith composing the Book of Mormon three times while drunk on alcohol. If the holy text of Mormonism was composed while he was drunk, I seriously doubt it was inspired by god.
But all the scientific studies that have been done and addiction experts say that neither coffee nor it cause you addiction, what causes it is habit but not addiction. The Church of the Saints of the last days has to make a renovation as it did with polygamy in its beginnings because it is something wrong to prohibit drinking coffee or tea. The experts in addiction issues say that it is not addictive, just like the scientific studies.
Let me try some constructive criticism: "I don´t know exactly why we are asked not to drink coffee or tea, but I believe J.S. was a prophet, so I´m not gonna drink it" - when all explanations or logic arguments fail when talking about religion, the only thing that´s left is "FAITH"... That´s why there´s no point arguing religion when the "faith" card is on... I truly respect faith and everyone may profess it´s own. But if you´re openning yourself to discuss religion, then (I THINK) you should not give an answer like "I don´t know why, but I believe it, so I do it"... Thanks
Well since in the first Faith and Beliefs video David was explicit that his purpose was to share his own beliefs to those who were curious and was not an attempt to change anyone else's beliefs, then he is not trying to 'argue'. He is trying to be honest, rather than explicit apologetics,
If Joseph Smith proclaimed that drinking bleach was good for you, would you do drink it just because a prophet told you too. Are prophets not men that can make mistakes and be influenced in the wrong direction.
Please talk to an older generation cardiologist. Ask them why their patient surveys list this: Do you drink liquor, smoke cigarettes, or do you drink coffee and black tea? These were questions asked of new patients to cardiologists. My understanding is that coffee and tea affects the body in many ways and we of the older generation remember that it was a real health concern and not just a commandment.
@@regansiever4796 Uuuuum I don't think we've done like a whole episode of Saints Unscripted focused solely on polygamy, but I'm sure we briefly mention is every once in a while. But what I meant is that _I_ will personally address it in these Faith and Beliefs episodes sometime in the future.
Your problem is you are trying to apply logic when mormons offer none. It is not about reason, let alone any health claims. It is about "Do as I say and don't ask questions."
The primary purpose of the Word of Wisdom is not to tell us what we can or can’t do, it’s a commandment from God which by following he greatly blesses us. I don’t drink alcohol, coffee or tea because I don’t think it’s bad, I don’t drink it because I believe that abstinence from it will bring me closer to God by honoring his commandments which he set forth.
Also the idea it’s because of caffeine isn’t the reason we don’t drink coffee or tea, we do it because we believe God specifically commanded it. The idea of abstaining from caffeine came a lot later
I have met members who "make exceptions". I always love those types of members. It's as if you can pick and choose what you like out of God's laws. I knew a couple who would abstain from alcohol except for Christmas (month of December). They would justify this with things like "I would not want to be rude if a dinner party host offered me a drink", or "It's a festive occasion this month. There is nothing wrong with being in the Christmas spirit." They further justified breaking the word of wisdom by drinking only "Christmas" types drinks like beer, wine, liquors, single malt scotch whiskey, Christmas themed cocktails, rum punch, and anything else that was offered.
Thanks for the video. I'm a bit confused, though... Because Joseph Smith was a prophet, doesn't mean we copy everything he did (err...cough...polygamy...), so it's not a simple case of 'well, he didn't do it, so we don't'. Couldn't the prohibition be a cultural thing? PS: I'm interested in joining the church... and I love coffee, and understand good research shows it to be a health drink.
I think i heard the word of wisdom is more then just no coffy, tea, smoking or achohol. It just neans to eat at least generaly healthy. Im just sayin this for people in the comments. They seem to be confused about it.
Really, the Lord has always given commandments in progression. He prepared the Apostles in the new testament slowly and progressed their understanding and gave them more and more responsibility until they could be trusted even with the sealing power. This is the "fulness of times", the "restitution of all things" has already come and God leads His church. He can command whatever He wants. He is just preparing the Saints one principle at a time. Just as Christ grew "grace to grace," so is the church growing and it is up to the members to abide His law. If you are not a member, then you are not bound by the same law and covenant, nor are you promised the same blessings. As I have lived the word of wisdom I have had better health and more blessings, that is proof to me that it is a commandment, independent of whatever ANYBODY else thinks or says. God commands, and those who follow receive the blessing.
“instruction to live by even if we don’t understand why”. This is a statement that perfectly illustrates the horrors of all religions. Men wrote illogical, and many times, heinous policies in books and claim to be inspired by an invisible entity. People believe and “follow” these ridiculous writings in the hope that there is something marvelous after death. If this isn’t make believe and fantasy at it’s finest....I have no idea what is.
My opinion on this. We choose to obey the word of wisdom. There will be some members of our church who will drink coffee and Tea regularly or on occasions. Are they bad people? No. Do they have agency yes it’s the relationship between them and God not with the bishopric and his counselors. I choose not to because I just do n’t like the taste. A family member who is a strong member of the church drinks coffee on occasions. Is he a bad person? No and quite frankly it’s not my business nor the bishopric. I see green tea and coffee as a test of our willingness to sacrifice for the Lord. But unfortunately members of our church like to judge and mock members (Utah members especially) those who go inactive are because of those people who judged and mocked them for practicing their agency. Loved the video btw
The addiction factor is probably the most logical reason to abstain.
So why are caffeinated sodas and energy drinks not included? “ For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.” D&C 58:26
Maybe caffeinated drinks weren't really a thing back then? I don't know, personally, I don't drink caffeinated drinks, but that's a splitting subject among members.
Me on Monday: Don’t talk to me until I have my coffee.
Dude: I thought Mormons don’t drink coffee.
Me: Exactly!
XD
XD
😂😂😂
"You shouldn't drink coffee because you shouldn't drink bleach." Um, ok. Sound reasoning.
Stop being disingenuous.
Amadeus2248 he’s not. This is genuinely poor argument rationale.
You did not listen. He never said that. Eatch the video again please I know some lds drink coffee its a personal choice. Coffee doesnt make you fornicate or beat Ur wife. Coffee doesnt contribute to cancer nearly as much as cigs and other tobacco
But it does cause a lot of digestive problems and can lead to hypertension.i have neacer read any where in DNC whenre it talks about no coffee. Just no hot drinks in general. But i have also not read DNC front to back.
@@bigguns126 You’re right actually, there is nothing in the D&C that says you shouldn’t drink coffee or tea. It is a later revelation. People were confused by what “hot drinks” meant so they asked Joseph and he clarified it meant coffee and tea.
That's not what was said, but if you insist on being stupid, no one will stop you
I had a nephew who (in part) went inactive because he was drinking green tea for the health benefits; when he told the counselor in the bishopric, the counselor went ballistic. The irony is that the counselor was slamming down 6 energy drinks a day, each of which had about 10x the caffeine content of green tea. My nephew thought that was a touch hypocritical, the counselor thought he was perfectly OK. Likewise, we have lots of Mormons who "obey" the word of wisdom as currently interpreted and enforced who slam down Big Gulps and plenty of animal products (Beef, chicken, etc.) and that is perfectly fine. Meantime, the clear admonition of the WOW (meat only sparingly or not at all) is completely disregarded by active Mormons, because this portion of the revelation has never been enforced. Meanwhile, 7th day Adventists who allow coffee/tea but encourage Vegan/Vegetarian diet are now SURPASSING Mormons on just about every health study both for longevity, cancer rates and overall healthiness. Kind of makes you think how the Brethren ought to be teaching this doesn't it?
Couldn't agree more with this statement!
For the record serious Adventist’s don’t drink tea or coffee either. Fully agree with your sentiments on the WoW meat hypocrisy. Have always wondered how that happened.
@@AmericanGreg As a church we all need to read the D&C more carefully. Deacons quarum is reasponcible for cleaning the church buildings, not elders ;-)
I’m a very active member and I agree. The culture of the church is not okay in some places. Which is why I would never move to Utah or Cardston. But remember it’s culture. The church is true, even when members do hypocritical things like this. I’m grateful I was raised in a place with less practising members. It allowed us to cling more to the doctrine and uplift each other, rather than cling to what the general culture of the area says is and isn’t okay. Has anyone else noticed this trend? I find it in a lot of religions. When a huge area is populated by mainly one religion a lot of culture sneaks in that isn’t really in accordance to what the church teaches and the environment often becomes more toxic because people aren’t perfect. I should research this more and write an essay on it sometime... but seriously, anyone else notice this?
Joseph Smith was a liar
Speaking from a Muslims perspective... Coffee was founded in Ethiopia and was taken into Arabia by Yemeni traders and merchants. The scholars at the time deemed the new drink known as "Qa'wah" to be haraam (forbidden/impermissible) because it was believed that coffee was addictive and alters the mind, similar to alcohol (which is also impermissible) and those found to be drinking coffee were jailed, heavily fined, and sometimes publicly lashed. It remained this way for nearly two centuries, but ultimately that prohibition on coffee was lifted by an Ottoman sultan at the time and has been enjoyed by Muslims since. Coffee was discovered long after the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), but I think it would have been interesting to see his stance on coffee and if he would have prohibited it like he did with alcohol and other mind altering substances.
In 3:13
"I don't know exactly why we're asked not to drink coffe or tea, but I belive Joseph Smith was a prophet
so I'm not gonna drink it"
In my opinion, that statement captures the essence of mormon faith, based not in scripture but in men
Actually, the Word of Wisdom is a part of LDS Scripture.
@@brettmajeske3525 It seems that you know more about this topic than the author of this video. You should put more references to help your Mormon brothers to give a better answer on this topic.
@@josueaguilar5046 David Snell could have worded things differently, but he seems to know what he is talking about. He mentioned the Word of Wisdom in a way I thought was obvious said it was Scripture. I was only clarifying.
@@brettmajeske3525 But in the end, the final authority on this subject for David Snell, is Joshep Smith (In my opinion a self-proclaimed prophet). That's my point
Lol yes
I am a latter day Saint/Mormon. And I personally think the stance of coffee and tea by the church is terrible. It was never revealed to Joseph Smith as a law of worthiness in order to get baptized or go to the temple. I think the stance is far more destructive than beneficial.
Personally I never felt like it was a huge deal. I served a mission in Taiwan where drinking tea is a cultural thing, and everyone drinks it several times a day. Sometimes we'd be offered tea several times in just one hour of knocking doors. We'd politely decline and explain that we don't drink tea, and they were never offended. It was never really a stumbling block for investigators either. But smoking and alcohol - now those were really tough for people to let go of.
I can certainly understand where you're coming from though; I have many LDS friends who drink coffee and/or tea because they feel the same way. But for me it's not a big deal, so I don't really mind avoiding it.
How on Earth could that be destructive? Caffeine is an addictive substance and it has negative neurological and cardiovascular effects, but even if that wasn't the case and it was actually good for you, how would it be destructive? That is a strong word. Even if they were against eating bananas, even that is not destructive.
Supposedly, the word of wisdom is meant to keep us healthy. Yet drinking coffee and tea, which have been proven through science to be healthy when consumed in moderation is grounds for revoking a temple recommend, whereas being morbidly obese is not.
This leads me to think that the prohibition on coffee is more about control of the masses and less about well-being.
Oh but haven't you heard? You've just got to have faith!🤣🤣😂😂
I think it’s much more related to the time the revelation was given. It isn’t explicitly coffee and tea, just “hot drinks”. As new products like energy drinks, and maybe even soda, have come to fruition since the revelation, I think that despite not being a ‘hot’ drink, the similar contents should have them included perhaps?
@@simon_carrick8198 If that is the case, then why has the policy not been updated to reflect our evolving culture? As of the writing of this sentence, regardless of how you define what a “hot drink” is, drinking coffee is grounds (no pun intended) for revoking a temple recommend whereas drinking energy drinks is not.
@@enigmaticvaran6597 I’m saying that the interpretation of the word of wisdom, in my opinion, should change. That’s all
@@simon_carrick8198 Whose interpretation?
I was really hoping for an answer about coffee. I see my family down one soda after another, but would look down on me for drinking one cup of coffee. From what i read coffee is good for you as long as you don't put a bunch of sugar and cream in it. No one can ever explain this to me.
Tanya Barron
My grandma drank coffee all her life. More like a espresso no sugar no cream. She lived till 94 years old.
I’m almost 40. I drank coffee since I was a teen. I’m super healthy and have no problems sleeping or any kind.
@@liliadavtyan3042 My great grandfather smoked all the time and lived to 100 on the dot. Huh, maybe by your logic smoking is not a problem either. Caffeine actually speeds up your heart. Take from it what you will
Ya the same thing happens to me. They don't like if I drink tea or coffee or alcohol, but they drink a lot of soda. I feel like the Word Of Wisdom needs an update, and really should go back to the way it was originally written, not by commandment or constraint, but by way of invitation.
Sex, sugar, free food, food in general are all addictive
@@rambomoore381 do you have any proof coffee is harming people more than free food, sugar! Let's talks about sex addict may be we should stop having sex cause it's addictive
I don’t know if I could convert ...I drink too much Coffee and live in the coffee capital of Australia
It takes some willpower to give it up. My parents drank a coffee tasting drink called "Postum" to be a substitute, that was made from wheat. postum.com/shop/
KevlarX2 sounds interesting
I’ve had both Postum and Pero. I don’t remember the ingredients right off the bat but Postum does have molasses in it. I much prefer Pero; it tastes similar to coffee in my opinion. Postum is good but it’s more of a nighttime drink I’d say.
SallyG May: If you have even the smallest interest in real coffee, you should stay far away from postum.
@@bagnasbayabas The word of wisdom never spells out caffeine. It said hot drinks, which has been interpreted to mean tea and coffee. Of course they make decaffeinated of both. It may have to do with not just caffeine, but the addictive nature of the drinks and their effect on your health.
I found the word of wisdom in the Bible. I understand it. Context: I'm a new convert (Baptized in Sep of 2021) who grew up as a Baptist. Anyway in Leviticus 10:8-11 you'll find the real reason for avoiding "strong drink" or any mind or body altering substances.
Why didn’t Jesus avoid wine?
You can’t drink decaf coffee but you can drink Red Bull. Priorities lol
Well, most members I know do try and avoid caffeine.
Brett Majeske Indeed. BYUs policies were in line with caffeine avoidance
@Anti Anti Mormon I wish I could take the blue pill again 💊 (or red and yellow one)
@Anti Anti Mormon It’s funny how you people brag about living longer as if it’s a good thing to be attached to this world. Also, are you aware that Jesus and his disciples drank wine? Obviously he didn’t get drunk, but none the less wine was a common beverage back then to enjoy with meals, as it is now. Keep following your cult polygamists though :) you’re so much holier then everyone else! I also find it hilarious how you call yourself a saint, as if everyone is capable of being a saint. Saints live lives of service and obedience to God, which is the complete opposite of your adulterous cult leaders.
@@xiyecho7164 Jesus drank wine but he didn't eat bacon, pork chops, or clams. None of which is bad for you. Who knows why the Jews could not eat those things other than God said not to.
It's not about living longer its about living healthier. People who smoke and drink tend to die earlier because they are unhealthy. Being healthy in your older years is a great thing.
The Reason why we are told to avoid drinking coffee, tea and alcohol and avoid smoking, why? Because it interferes with our reception of the Spirit.
I don't think that verse was referring to fermented alcohol wine. There is a difference between drinking fresh from the grape and drinking fermented alcohol wine that have been left sitting for months inside vats. So I don't think Mild drinks are about fermented wine drinks.
@@germanslice It absolutely was about beer. Beer was fine with the WoW until 1921. A lot of prophets drank beer. Joseph Smith died with a belly full of wine. Brigham Young owned a whiskey distillery. The WoW has changed a lot. And it could change again, if rumors about GC are to be believed.
It matters not to me how the church leaders decided to do things way back in the early days of the church before the WOW came out from the Lord. The Lord teaches his saints line by line, precept by precept to where things are today in the church. Why would I be concerned about things before the WOW came out? Revelation has always been progressive in this church according to the needs and the will of God to his people.
@@germanslice Sure. I mean, tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself. I was just pointing out that your claim that the original WoW wasn't referring to beer is wrong. And founded on nothing but your own desire to reaffirm what you think you already know.
The zero tolerance policy on tea and coffee is disproportionately persnickety when compared to the ground on which it stands.
Not eating meat is also in the word of wisdom yet somehow that’s been selectively ignored. Seems rather hypocritical to me.
@@cmacdonald1197 Where is that?
@@cmacdonald1197 Is doesn't say the members to not eat meat, it says to eat it "sparingly". Sparingly is a bit subjective but i try to follow this new commandment that is specifically for LDS people only. I eat it sparingly, maybe 3-4 times per day
Rambo Moore “sparingly” would be subjective if it wasn’t explained later. It says in winter or times of famine. That’s pretty specific
I hear what you are saying here that you guys view abstinence from alcohol and coffee as a modern revelation for our time.
It’s something that always confused me since many righteous bible characters drank wine.
What I don’t understand is that in 2 Timothy 3:16 it says that “all scripture is inspired of God.”
If every verse in the bible is already inspired of God then why would he override some of them with new revelation?
1 Timothy 5:23 “do not drink water any longer but take a little wine for the sake of our stomach and your frequent cases of sickness.”
So if that verse is inspired by God, what would inspire him to change his thinking and decide to forbid it’s use?
It all seems a bit odd to me
Wine is so heavily featured in the bible because the water near them was often not clean enough to drink and also the wine of the new testament is more like grape juice than wine.
@@stan510 so bud light/white claw is congruent with this? Excellent.
Not only was the water dirty, alcohol has, well, alcohol in it, which is a natural disinfectant. They didn't have antibiotics back then. If you see what alcohol does to people, the addiction, the pain, all of the issues it causes, then you would understand why the Lord would tell us not to drink it.
The word of wisdom is that, a word of wisdom. The wisdom is to take care of your bodies and your minds by what you take into it. If you drink a Coke sometimes, no bid deal, but if you drink a coke every day, or twice a day or more, then it isn't good for you.
The key is balance, plus, specific things have been prohibited.
Bible says don't be drunk from wine....so...wine = Alcohol...Jesus turned water into wine....conclusion... Bible does not say you shouldn't drink. If you don't want to drink.....fine.... but don't say it's what the Bible teaches....it makes you a false teacher
@@monocuco818 wine is not strong enough to disinfect. Whisky is but they didn't have that. Brewing beer does kill germs that's why medieval people drank beer instead of water...city water usually was dirty. but Bible clearly says wine is ok...being drunk is not
Its almost like its some old dudes opinion and he was trying to control his followers better so he made up rules with no solid reasoning behind them
JS was only about 30 years old at the time, so not that old.
Jesus Christ gave commandments and laws.
We believe this commandment and law came from Jesus Christ via Joseph Smith.
👍👍
@@davidlintonrecords7062Have you ever read the bible or book of mormon?
@@RSorkin yes. 👍 👍
I can tell you the answer: because declining tea and coffee socially starts a missionary conversation. Period.
I’ve always wondered why the church members commonly ignore the portion where it speaks of eating meat sparingly, is there a video on this?
After watching this video I thank God that I am Roman Catholic.
The roman catholic actually forbid coffee at the beginning the after the poop tried it he said that we should allow the infidel to have this great drink by themselves
@@freudba1578 he’s not poop
@@kennykenny5273 is there a better name
@@freudba1578 I’m convinced. You’re right.
Yeah, because you don't have bigger logical hurdles to clear as a catholic. How dumb of you
Alma 32 21 “And now as I said concerning faith-faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.” For those whose need an exact answer….
I was curious about this, so I looked up this video and 3:12 , answered my question. He doesn't even know.😂
I'll attempt again to post a comment and question. Last 5 attempts have gone unanswered. Being blocked? Tea is prohibited, however herbal tea is ok. So if herbal tea is ok because it has no caffeine, why is decaffeinated black tea not allowed? Yerba Mate, the national tea drink of Argentina and Uruguay though having more caffeine than black tea is permitted. Why are chemical concoctions like energy drinks ok, while natural black tea prohibited? Is drinking a cup of tea really a sin??
Is drinking tea a sin? No. Is violating a covenant one has made to God a sin, yes. Cutting one's hair is not normally a sin, but it was for Sampson.
I natural tea not herbal, WHAT IS HERBAL TEA. Is there any HERBAL coffee out there.:)
Thanks for explaining it to me I've always had a wonder why you all don't drink it thanks again
The word of wisdom does not specify coffee and tea. It says “hot drinks”. So I would say if that’s the case we shouldn’t be drinking anything that is hot???
Olden day Mormon prophets did forbid hot cocoa as well, but that was taken off the word of wisdom at some point. If that was removed, why can’t we also remove other things, especially if health benefits have been proven for them 🤔
@@elliefuller3667 see your religion changes so often but the bible and Christianity never change
@@JugsOnMySack Oh, it’s not my religion anymore 😂 I left it a long time ago, when I actually put some real thought into its authenticity
@@elliefuller3667 smart man
Blind obedience at its finest. Congrats on your gullibility.
I’m so glad that my Father in Heaven is interested in what I’m eating. These substances have no redeeming features and many dangers to our health. I include all caffeinated drinks.
I loved this. And I love how you acknowledge the fact that we don’t always understand why we are commanded to do certain things, and that’s ok. All religions in general are riddled with these types of things. It’s so important to God, I think, for us to show Him that we will have faith in all things he asks of us, even if we don’t fully understand why. Great video! Seriously though...3:30...hilarious! Bahaha!
Have fun continuing to submit to some arbitrary and asinine God who just gives rules just to see if you'll obey. Doesn't sound like the behavior of a omniscient being.
Blind, mindless, obedience to a man oh I mean “prophet” that saw things other religions claim as well. Taking a world religion class will open your eyes to what’s really going on with organized religion. It’s to keep us separate. If one man was so Devine why isn’t every other human? Just food for thought.
Behavior control. I’m so glad i have free will ❤😘
I was addicted to mountain dew so I switched over to drinking coffee. Best decision I've made.
Yes, coffee and tea are way healthier than the drinks now interpreted to be banned beverages by the now binding Word of Wisdom.
I really wish the Word of Wisdom were wiser.
Have you tried Trader Joe's espresso maple black tea ?
I’m addicted to coffee and Dr Pepper 😂
@@jacquelineislas1528 Can't say I have yet
I can empathize with the sentiment behind your comment. Making a switch from one beverage to another, especially from a highly caffeinated and sugary drink like Mountain Dew to coffee, can indeed be viewed as a positive step towards reducing sugar intake and potentially improving overall health.
It seems like you've found that switching to coffee was a beneficial decision for you, and you may have experienced improved energy levels, better focus, or other benefits associated with moderate coffee consumption. This could be due to the lower sugar content in coffee compared to Mountain Dew.
However, it's important to be aware of the logical fallacy known as "anecdotal evidence." Anecdotal evidence involves using personal experiences or isolated cases to make a broader point. While your positive experience with switching to coffee is valuable and meaningful to you, it doesn't necessarily prove that coffee is universally better than Mountain Dew for everyone or that it's the best choice for managing caffeine intake.
Individual experiences can vary widely, and what works for one person may not work for another based on various factors such as health conditions, dietary preferences, or tolerance to caffeine. It's essential to consider a broader range of scientific evidence and consult with healthcare professionals for personalized advice on dietary choices and beverage consumption.
Opinion. To me it seems pretty clear. Caffeine is addictive and it temporarily speeds up your heart (your heart only has so many beats in its lifetime). Coffee and Tea have the addictive caffeine so that is why mormons are advised to steer clear of it, for their own health and not give in to addiction. "Then why isn't Coke, Monsters and Bang energy drinks not on the list"? Well my ignorant friend, those weren't around in Broseph Smith's time.
Really nice answer. What about herbal infusions like camomile ?
Here another approach to coffee that the church should take..(thank you so God for making this delicious drink for us for it gives energy and it feels good)
If I'm not mistaken the word of wisdom says hot drinks. It was later interpreted as tea and coffee. Does anyone know who presented that interpretation? Thanks.
When the revelation was given (1800’s) there wasn’t many other hot drinks except tea and coffee, therefore we sort of go with that. No hot chocolate in the 1800’s for example
An important point about this topic is that highly-caffeinated drinks can, a lot of times, take away our agency. I mean I’ve heard many, many stories of people being totally controlled and directed by whether they have “gotten their coffee” or not. You don’t have the thought-process of, “do I want to spend money this morning?” No, it’s already been decided for you. It’s going to take away a lot of the choices that they could be making because it’s addictive. In the end, I believe this isn’t good and that it’s a commandment because God wants us to keep our agency and independence. We should be able to act reasonably without pumping chemicals into our brains every day. Agency is important.
Love it. Thanks Rune.
So interesting to hear you say Soda wasn’t included. I know mtn dew in Canada doesn’t have caffeine and it does in the states. The Mormon lore was that on of the apostles (don’t remember who). Liked it so much so contacted to ask if it could be made without. Leading to it being removed in Canada. As well every event or activity never had coke or Pepsi unless it was the caffeine free version.
I remember getting in trouble for drinking coke as a kid. A lot of root beer.
The actual truth is Joseph's a false prophet and has scammed many people.
What!? I never heard that story. That’s hilarious, I doubt it’s true, but who knows! I haven’t looked into it! Yeah I was taught that you shouldn’t drink coke, it was something President Hinkley was pretty adamant about, but we were later told it is not an official doctrine, more just how President Hinkley interpreted the word of wisdom.
I’ve always thought my family was really funny because you can tell which parent had more influence on which child by whether or not they drink coke. My dad, middle sister, and younger brother do, and my mom, oldest sister, and I do not. It’s not wrong though. 😂
There are atleast 2 atleast 2 reasons not to drink cofe 1) It can cause heart issiues and bad sleep at night in extreme cases insomnia
2) generally any hot drinks aren't good for your stomach everything should be around room temperature evan too cold is not good for you.
1- many people degist coffee well making it easy for them to sleep and some others want to have coffee to stay up late studying and working
2- we eat hot soup 🍲 and sandwiches all the time! We warm our food constantly so that is wrong
Soooo, in other words no HOT chocolate either? You know, the HOT chocolate which is served at many of the fall church activities?
Nice lessons and information
I dont think its the caffeine they avoid(from what Ive seen). They will consume caffeine but avoid coffee whether its caffinated or not. And Ive seen some drink tea. Idk I think its all over the place with them. They seem to follow rules and not know why and end up not making sense about what they do.
It’s actually a massive issue (coming from an ex-mo). See, the Mormon church discourages “anti-Mormon media” which essentially means any website that is not from the church itself. Because of the insane lack of objective, unbiased sources, a lot of members just follow rules without understanding why they do. When I asked my brother why he was steadfast in following the rule of no coffee or tea, yet he would drink a crap ton of soda and energy drinks, he struggled to answer. I encouraged him to look up health benefits of coffee and tea, as well as health risks from soda and energy drinks. He did, and he was puzzled why the word of wisdom was set up the way it is. He looked into more on the Mormon church (yes, without looking at articles with a blatant anti-Mormon bias. It isn’t hard to find articles that present info on the church, even if the info is negative, completely objectively) and ended up finding many flaws, such as Mormon prophets being heavy proponents for slavery, older Mormon teachings from the 70’s on how you can “change homosexuals” to be straight, Mormon prophets stating blood atonement as an eternal doctrine, Joseph Smith being a known drunkard himself, even going as far as to be drunk whilst composing the Book of Mormon at least three times, and a lot more. He left the church because of this research, it’s hard, but he would rather go through tough times than live in a lie. I’m glad I could get him to open up, he was always more partial to listening to me than the rest of my family. I wish I could get all of them out of it, I know they’re good people deep down, they’ve just been so heavily groomed into the church that their minds have completely shut down.
Agreed
How can you not know? If we went visiting two houses, one dirty one clean, which one would you visit? Yep! The Holy Gost too.
Lepracy jokes really make heads roll...
I am an ex-mormon who works as a coffee roaster and wholesaler. I have a good view of why it is that coffee made that list if you'd like to hear me out?
Yeah man, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
@@davidsnell2605 Coffee in the early 19th century was often drank in the alehouse. Men would drink coffee to stay up all night getting drunk and rowdy. The spread of coffee to Europe and America coincided with the spread of revolutionary ideals (Voltaire allegedly drank 40-50 cups a day!)
It may only be my pet theory, but members of a religious sect that created strong hateful feelings in their community may have been... challenged, so to speak, while they were in the alehouse. Men could hear rumors the prophet rather they not hear, or even fist fights could have broken out. I don't consider those too implausible.
So, my guess is that by eliminating drinks that would often be drunk in alehouses like coffee and tea the prophet could hopefully minimize the chance of these incidences.
@@trentlytle7289 Interesting theory. I've never heard that one before. I'm a bit skeptical of it but to each his own!
thank you sir, great content
Joseph Smith never said don’t drink tea and coffee and they are not mentioned in the WoW.
Yes, however at the time the hot drinks people were having all the time during meals was coffee and tea, and the prophet a couple months after D&C 89 explicitly stated it was referring to coffee and tea. Now general authorities are pretty clear about how it is interpreted, no coffee and tea.
The real reason: If you can control what someone puts in their mouth, you can control anything, specifically the wallets
I am not a mormon but can’t the rueles be simply what they belived at that time to be unheathy? Don’t assume bad intent if you want to change someones opinion.
kerstin Jernberg I have no desire to change anyone’s opinion. I just tell it like it is-from my own perspective.
That is a weird statement and over-reaching.
I've got no interest in arguing about this, I genuinely want to know what you mean.
yes i agree, even if that wasn't the specific intention
Hey just small thing, can you guys use LDS or the whole name of the church that would be perfect, thanks for your discussion
I’m not sure what exactly your question is. We are taught, especially recently with President Nelson, to use the full name of the church whenever possible. We are members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, not “Mormon” or “LDS.” This is important to us because the full name tells what we believe and worship... Jesus Christ. We could say we are Christians, because we are, but if you tell someone your Christian they are going to think you have different beliefs than you do since you are a member of the church, and some of our doctrines are quite different that many other Christian beliefs. I personally am uncomfortable being called “Mormon” because of the history of the word. For one, we aren’t Mormon, Mormon was just the dude that read all the ancient records of the Americas and compiled them into one book (The Book of Mormon). And secondly, the term ‘Mormon’ was originally used as a very derogatory term, then we just kind of took it on in the church and we’re trying to change that now (It’s similar to calling Native Americans “Indians” though admittedly not exactly the same). As for LDS, we are not supposed to use it because it still cuts out the Christ part of our church’s name, but MANY members still use it simply because it’s a mouthful to say the whole thing everytime you mention the church.
I wish we had an official shortened name, like Christians, Muslims, Buddists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. but we don’t it’s just Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Personally, I use the term “member” most often when talking in church circles, but admittedly that has the same problems as “LDS.”
So I guess the gist if my comment is steer clear when you can from using the word ‘Mormon’ since it’s not really nice, but of course any member will understand. As for LDS, no one is going to be offended if you ask if they are LDS. But if you want to make a fast friend use the full name, we know it’s a mouthful, but it is important to us.
A strong correlation that I am making is discussed in Michael Pollan's book, "This Is Your Mind On Plants." It gives a great historical context on caffeine (esp. coffee).
In England during the 17th century, coffeehouses began to emerge as social spaces where people gathered for discussions, readings, and debates. Similar to the concerns in the Ottoman Empire, these coffeehouses were seen by some authorities as potential centers for political dissent. However, unlike the extreme measures taken in the Ottoman Empire, coffeehouses in England were not banned, but there were debates and concerns about the influence they might have on public discourse.
In the United States, Pollan touches on the role of coffee in the temperance movement during the 19th century. As alcohol consumption came under scrutiny, coffee was promoted as an alternative beverage. Coffeehouses were seen as places where people could gather and socialize without the perceived negative effects of alcohol.
These historical examples illustrate how coffee and its consumption have been intertwined with cultural, social, and political developments in different societies throughout history.
If you can control what you put in your mouth, you can control just about anything.
Bro what? It's even stupider than I thought. The caffeine rationalization made sense to me because, but now your telling me you don't drink it because some guy said so without explaining why?
Isn't the Words of Wisdom exactly what 1 Timothy 1-4 was talking about?
But pop has caffeine they have no problem with that
As a convert if jesus had wine I'll have tea or coffee
Joshua Bourne it was safer than water than
Sex can be addictive....sport can be addictive.... shall I abandon exercise and sex?
Jesus turned water in to grape juice.
@@randomizedcontent9461 Jesus did not say to abstain from alcohol completely. Anyone who tries to twist the bible to further their own anti alcohol agenda is twisting the word of god. You can abstain from alcohol or drink responsibly. That and only that is what the bible says. Moderation meaning that youb don't intentionally get intoxicated to the point where you do things you normally wouldn't do. For some people this means one drink is too much...for some people 2 glasses of wine are fine...some people can handle much more and still have control. They will even realise they shouldn't drive anymore...Jesus turned water into wine....if the bible warns that you should NOT be drunk from wine it clearly can't mean grape juice. Moderate consumption of wine is beneficial to tour health.
My ex-father in law is a teetotaller and retired pastor. His church did juice for communion however he never tried to use the bible to force his lifestyle choice on others. He preached the gospel but he wouldn't add to it.
@@Dilley_G45 The LDS Word of Wisdom is modern revelation, not Biblical. Though for what it is worth, modern wine has about twice the alcohol of what was drunk back then. Modern wine makers ferment it longer.
Tea confused me... everything else I understood... Soda drinking is REALLY surprising... that shit is evil...
Soda is actually horrible for short and long-time health! Back when I was playing a sport in high school, I would quit soda before every season because it was so full of sugar, I knew it was only detrimental when I had to start doing rigorous exercise almost every day. Eventually I started consuming less and less even without a sport season, and the good thing about that is the few times you get it, it’s almost like a treat or reward for special occasions. They’re so gung-ho about coffee and tea, but when I was living in Utah I would see Mormon moms leaving the gas station with massive 48 ounce soda cups 😂😂 wild how skewed their priorities are.
@@elliefuller3667 yeah it's horrendous. I don't drink it, haven't since I was like 11 and my daughter doesn't drink it either. The first time she tried it she cried and she was done with it after that and I'm grateful, and still mad at her father for it...six years later lol
@@laniyalumpkin4907 Good for you and your daughter, you’ll probably live longer because of that in all honesty.
Just drank coffee... yes i know were not supposed to... yes i know it affects me negatively. Lord help me
Brigham Young forbid it after he realized that importing tea, coffee and tobacco was costing impoverished early settlers tens of thousands of dollars. He did keep the brewery and distillery going.
(Deuteronomy 14:26) And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
“For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.”
(Romans 14:17-18, Bible NIV)
I have a hard time with just quoting scripture at people assuming it's applicable and the be-all end-all. The bible also says...
"You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way" Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT.
Thankfully, some revelation (if this verse on slaves can even be considered that) changes based on time and circumstances. The verses you quoted from Romans though seems pretty legit!
@@davidsnell2605 Full disclosure, I used to be Mormon, but harbor no ill will (most of my family and extended family is still in the church). In fact, I have really enjoyed most of this video series. Like others said, the kinderhook video was one of the best-done (is that a word?) videos on the subject I have seen. The WOW has always been a tricky one though (for a myriad of reasons). One really obvious one is that we know John the Baptist did not drink, but Jesus and the apostles did drink. Should latter-day saints be held to a "higher" standard than Christ? (I only put "higher" like this because I believe there is nothing wrong with drinking in moderation.) Any who--that is just my two cents, and would love a reply. Once again...I really like what you are doing here. I think many of the misconceptions need to be cleared up so that we can have honest talk and not get into contentious arguments over nothing. :)
@@jacobpotter6490 thanks for the comment. I think this goes back to the principle of continuing revelation. Christ taught not to preach to Gentiles. Yet, he revealed to Peter later on that he should do the opposite. Many commandments are specific to certain times and cultures. For example, if the Law of Moses were given in 2019, I'm sure it would be vastly different than it was anciently. Even if it had been given at the same time anciently, but in Siberia instead of Israel, it would have been vastly different. So the fact that Jesus drank wine, yet we're asked not to, doesn't really bother me. If we believe in modern prophets and continuing revelation, it's not a problem. I don't think it's a question of being held to a higher standard, it's just a question of living in a different time, with different circumstances, and relying on revelation as best we can as opposed to having Christ at our elbows to tell us what to do. This is a very interesting topic and I have plenty of opinions on it. If you'd like to chat feel free to find me and shoot me a message on facebook! Or you can just respond here.
I think parts of the Word of Wisdom need to be revisited. Hot drinks was interpreted a long time ago. Does a supplement including green tea (which has many health benefits) go against the WofW?
"It's not blind mindless obedience, it's mindless blind obedience!"
Awesome explanation!
I really liked the manner in which you approached this topic, but please let me share my thoughts on the matter.
(Colossians 2:16-17) "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
(Matthew 15:10-11) Jesus himself said, "And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."
I'm sorry, but God does not care whether or not you drink coffee.
(Genesis 1:29) "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
God did not say, "I give you every herb bearing seed EXCEPT FOR THE COFFEE BEAN!"
(Malachi 3:6) "For I am the Lord, I change not..."
(James 1:17) "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, WHO DOES NOT CHANGE like shifting shadows.
Noah got drunk, and I'm sure he still went to Heaven.
Jesus not only created wine, but he then served it to all the wedding guests. Don't tell me that Jesus is now a hypocrite saying, "Do as I say...NOT as I do!"
I say this to you in love...Mormonism needs to check itself on all of its legalistic ways.
(Romans 10:2-4) "For I bear them (Mormons) record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Thanks for your thoughts!
*@@davidsnell2605, My pleasure! Did I change your mind about Mormonism??? :-)
@@Jim_F44 Close but still no cigars ;) (cuz we don't smoke ... pun)
@@davidsnell2605 As much as I truly think you're mistaken about the whole coffee issue, I admit that I did get a good chuckle out of the "He had nothing to lose but his limbs" joke. I've always loved a good "bad" joke! (Smile!)
@@Jim_F44 haha I'm glad that, no matter our opinions about religion, leprosy can bring us together.
What about Mark 7:15 ?
I told this exact same story so many times as a Mormon. Glad I finally learned that it’s bull!
._. did u change ur religion ? wht r u now
@@aena5995 unaffiliated
Hahahaha! Sugar actually is very addictive! Eating is addictive! If u go around making everything addictive forbiden by God it means God is not making rules men is making rules
@@freudba1578 The problem with sugar, is that it's in quite literally everything, and requires more of it to have the same harmful effect as other substances (I.E. it isn't as potent). Eating can be addictive, but one does not simply live without eating. We can live without many things, and the few we have chosen to avoid happen to be very harmful.
@@johnwright2217 are trying to convince yourself of lies or you're too scared of facing lies which accepted as truth? Because if yr blood sugar goes only a nach above it's limits for sometimes it can cause you a serious damage
You guys are awesome!
You are awesome too by the way ;)
My wife told me tonight she could never be mormon. She loves coffee and cigarettes. I personally do not smoke and could live without coffee. I rarely drink it now due to blood pressure issues.
Just curious. A lady lived with me once and she was a Mormon and she did not eat black pepper. I was just wondering why. She also cooked in a way that I wasn't familiar with like I think she boiled turkey instead of roasting it or grilling it or whatever. I didn't want to offend her so I never asked her about the cooking practices that were unfamiliar to me. Seems I remember her meals were very bland. I don't know if that has something to do with the Mormon religion or if that was just her palate. Thank you
Bland cooking I don't think has to do with being Mormon in and of it's self. I was born and raised Mormon, left at 25. However culturally I think bland cooking is a big thing in Utah and Idaho (which of course are heavily Mormon area's) Because everyone I've known from Utah (and I've known many) from there have cooked very bland meals. As well many friends that have lived in Utah and Idaho have said bland cooking is big up there. I live in Texas right on the border with Louisiana so we have a lot of spice in our cuisine. When I was Mormon I met many Mormons from Utah and Idaho who got a huge culture shock with our cuisine😂
Wasn’t the real reason because Joseph smith said all warm drinks were bad for the gut, including things like hot soup or broth?
Have a cup of coffee ☕☕🍵
Why not two! It’s delicious and has health benefits too
Great video. Thanks
David reminded me of a Beatles parody with his leprosy joke: Changing the words from "Yesterday" Leprosy, all my skin is falling off of me. I'm not half the man I used to be. Oh leprosy, came suddenly... 😂
What is the difference between blind obedience and faith obedience?
One is doing something just because somebody told you to, and you do it, unquestioningly, for no other reason.
Faith obedience is something like... OK here's what I truly believe: The Book of Mormon is true. Therefore, Joseph Smith must be a prophet of God, which means if he's asking me not to drink tea and coffee, there's a good reason for it, even if I don't know what it is right now. Obedience based on faith. That makes sense? Feel free to ask more questions on our FB chat if you need to.
David Snell: David Snell: You’d better be making double whatever they pay the other two Mormons, bud. So much hustle on the questions.
So, you don’t follow a commandment unquestioningly, you follow it because of an already existing framework of beliefs, is that right?
@@seans5289 haha I wish. And yeah I think that's a solid summary when it comes to some of the more abstract commandments like the one discussed in this video (coffee/tea).
David Snell: So, would it behoove members to question the frameworks of their belief before accepting auxiliary commandments?
@@seans5289 if they want to make the auxiliary commandments their new framework they're free to do so. I don't think that's their purpose but to each his own. We teach that the keystone of our religion is The Book of Mormon, not the fact that we don't drink coffee and tea.
For all the people in the comments saying Mormons drink Red Bulls but not coffee have a valid point. The word of wisdom was created before there were energy drinks and coffee was the most common source of caffeine. I personally avoid excessive amounts of caffeine. There’s plenty of health benefits with it.
Mormons shouldn't drink caffeinated soda too 😏
I'm not a Mormon but the words Fundamentalism and Legalistic come to mind here - the same two words/mindsets that are responsible for the younger generations disinterested in religion.
Who wrote the covenant book?
There is no shortage of mormons drinking diet soda though. Diet Coke, mountain dew, don't mormons have a large connection to the Coca cola company?
Urban legend.
The temptation to tell the leprosy joke could have been left out.
Most commercial coffees and tea-leaf teas are indeed tuned for addiction and stimulation.
People get hooked on coffee, tea, _and_ tobacco and alcohol because of they develop the perception that those provide things they need. A major thing is socialization, but some of those include what we call vitamins and minerals. But it's actually substitutes that they provide, not the real thing.
And addiction.
How many members eat meat sparingly and only in times of famine?
Sparingly is subjective. I choose to only consume it 3-4 times daily as opposed to 7-8 which is what i crave. I think I'm doing pretty well
Not many. Members of the church aren’t perfect. I still think the gospel is.
The simplest explanation is that Smith was doing his best to lead the flock as he perceived God would want. He did not have the full list of caffeinated drinks we have today, so not everything is listed. People today who don't have the spirit but want to keep the letter of the law avoid coffee and drink Red Bull.
This is the truth: my Uncle Ed was a Mormon and told me about coffee when I was a kid. He explained it was a drug that could be used if needed when you were sick. If you were already immune to coffee you would have to use a stronger drug. I was not a Mormon, ignored the warning, and got severely addicted to coffee. I have often wished I had been a Mormon just to have avoided that drug.
Mormons are generally good people and I would not be too unhappy to have Mormons move in next door on both sides.
I love how he says first of all first of all hes trying to be a intilgent person using clee shey words and big ones to pull his crowd.
I thought it just said "hot drinks" which makes sense even my doctor said most tea, coffee, hot chocolate, etc is made too hot and is harmful to the inside of your body.
Quite amazing how a pretty healthy drink like coffee or tea especially green tea will keep you from living with God in the eternities but being a glutton won't. Maybe the church will wake up one day and quit asking that at temple recommend interviews. Any caffeinated drink used to be looked down on but I guess the prophet that changed that must have had a Pepsi addiction. lol The church has been making so many changes I hope that will be the next one.
It came as a revelation to Joseph Smith Jr. as part of the current Word of Wisdom (or Lord's Law of Health).
What came as revelation to Smith was no "hot drinks." Only later "revelation" clarified hot drinks as tea and coffee. So this to me begs several questions perhaps you can answer.
1. Coffee is one of the most scientifically researched beverages out there. The overwhelming consensus of the medical community is that the heavy content of anti-oxidents and other nutrients makes the health benefits far outweigh any risks, which for most people are none. So how is this a Law of Health?
2. If God meant coffee and tea, why did he have to mealy mouth it, why couldn't God have just said to Smith "no coffee or tea"? After all, everyone knew what they were, by Smith's time coffee and tea had been around a long time as popular beverages. I guess that is why we have prophets huh? God has to have someone to say what he meant to say all along. Which of course is why just within Christianity there are over 5000 denominations, they all have their own prophetic take on the perfect word of God scriptures.
3. If the revelation was all about health, why didn't God reveal to Smith the greatest health risk at the time, disease from water-borne microbes? In fact the LDS community had already endured at least one outbreak of cholera before he received the wow. So why didn't God tell Smith to tell everyone to boil water meant for consumption?
It didn’t, because Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Levi Lewis, Emma Smith’s cousin, said he saw Joseph Smith composing the Book of Mormon three times while drunk on alcohol. If the holy text of Mormonism was composed while he was drunk, I seriously doubt it was inspired by god.
But all the scientific studies that have been done and addiction experts say that neither coffee nor it cause you addiction, what causes it is habit but not addiction. The Church of the Saints of the last days has to make a renovation as it did with polygamy in its beginnings because it is something wrong to prohibit drinking coffee or tea. The experts in addiction issues say that it is not addictive, just like the scientific studies.
Is drinking tea or coffee considered a sin for the Mormon.?
So what do they drink and eat ??
The Bible is Gods only word!
Let me try some constructive criticism: "I don´t know exactly why we are asked not to drink coffee or tea, but I believe J.S. was a prophet, so I´m not gonna drink it" - when all explanations or logic arguments fail when talking about religion, the only thing that´s left is "FAITH"... That´s why there´s no point arguing religion when the "faith" card is on... I truly respect faith and everyone may profess it´s own. But if you´re openning yourself to discuss religion, then (I THINK) you should not give an answer like "I don´t know why, but I believe it, so I do it"... Thanks
Well since in the first Faith and Beliefs video David was explicit that his purpose was to share his own beliefs to those who were curious and was not an attempt to change anyone else's beliefs, then he is not trying to 'argue'. He is trying to be honest, rather than explicit apologetics,
If Joseph Smith proclaimed that drinking bleach was good for you, would you do drink it just because a prophet told you too. Are prophets not men that can make mistakes and be influenced in the wrong direction.
I'd respect it more if you banned caffine as well. At least there would be consistency
Law of health? So....things that are good for health like coffee are okay, then, right? Wait, they aren't? Whaaa?
i drink tea cuz it tastes amazing
We are comparing bleach to coffee and tea? Ok
Please talk to an older generation cardiologist. Ask them why their patient surveys list this: Do you drink liquor, smoke cigarettes, or do you drink coffee and black tea? These were questions asked of new patients to cardiologists. My understanding is that coffee and tea affects the body in many ways and we of the older generation remember that it was a real health concern and not just a commandment.
03:11 - Answer.
Can we drink peppermint tea?
Joyce A you can’t drink green or black tea. Herbal tea is fine
Are you gonna do a video about how Joseph Smith practiced polygamy?
Matthew Norris they should. Good topic to address; there’s many misconceptions
Yep! Probably several.
@@davidsnell2605 Hasn't there already been one? I swear I've seen one from you guys.
@@regansiever4796 Uuuuum I don't think we've done like a whole episode of Saints Unscripted focused solely on polygamy, but I'm sure we briefly mention is every once in a while. But what I meant is that _I_ will personally address it in these Faith and Beliefs episodes sometime in the future.
@@davidsnell2605 Yeah, probably just a figmant of my imagination then haha, either way I'm looking forward to new videos!
What about Mormon tea ?
Sorry, I don't get it. If you can't drink coffee or tea, then any beverage containing caffeine should be off limits. And what about Decaf ?
Your problem is you are trying to apply logic when mormons offer none. It is not about reason, let alone any health claims. It is about "Do as I say and don't ask questions."
The primary purpose of the Word of Wisdom is not to tell us what we can or can’t do, it’s a commandment from God which by following he greatly blesses us. I don’t drink alcohol, coffee or tea because I don’t think it’s bad, I don’t drink it because I believe that abstinence from it will bring me closer to God by honoring his commandments which he set forth.
Also the idea it’s because of caffeine isn’t the reason we don’t drink coffee or tea, we do it because we believe God specifically commanded it. The idea of abstaining from caffeine came a lot later
I have met members who "make exceptions". I always love those types of members. It's as if you can pick and choose what you like out of God's laws. I knew a couple who would abstain from alcohol except for Christmas (month of December). They would justify this with things like "I would not want to be rude if a dinner party host offered me a drink", or "It's a festive occasion this month. There is nothing wrong with being in the Christmas spirit." They further justified breaking the word of wisdom by drinking only "Christmas" types drinks like beer, wine, liquors, single malt scotch whiskey, Christmas themed cocktails, rum punch, and anything else that was offered.
Thanks for the video. I'm a bit confused, though... Because Joseph Smith was a prophet, doesn't mean we copy everything he did (err...cough...polygamy...), so it's not a simple case of 'well, he didn't do it, so we don't'.
Couldn't the prohibition be a cultural thing?
PS: I'm interested in joining the church... and I love coffee, and understand good research shows it to be a health drink.
I think i heard the word of wisdom is more then just no coffy, tea, smoking or achohol. It just neans to eat at least generaly healthy. Im just sayin this for people in the comments. They seem to be confused about it.
Really, the Lord has always given commandments in progression. He prepared the Apostles in the new testament slowly and progressed their understanding and gave them more and more responsibility until they could be trusted even with the sealing power.
This is the "fulness of times", the "restitution of all things" has already come and God leads His church. He can command whatever He wants. He is just preparing the Saints one principle at a time. Just as Christ grew "grace to grace," so is the church growing and it is up to the members to abide His law.
If you are not a member, then you are not bound by the same law and covenant, nor are you promised the same blessings. As I have lived the word of wisdom I have had better health and more blessings, that is proof to me that it is a commandment, independent of whatever ANYBODY else thinks or says. God commands, and those who follow receive the blessing.
“instruction to live by even if we don’t understand why”. This is a statement that perfectly illustrates the horrors of all religions. Men wrote illogical, and many times, heinous policies in books and claim to be inspired by an invisible entity. People believe and “follow” these ridiculous writings in the hope that there is something marvelous after death. If this isn’t make believe and fantasy at it’s finest....I have no idea what is.
So you can't have your coffee and drink too? I am not a big fan of hot tea or coffee. I never understood the hype.
My opinion on this. We choose to obey the word of wisdom. There will be some members of our church who will drink coffee and Tea regularly or on occasions. Are they bad people? No. Do they have agency yes it’s the relationship between them and God not with the bishopric and his counselors. I choose not to because I just do
n’t like the taste. A family member who is a strong member of the church drinks coffee on occasions. Is he a bad person? No and quite frankly it’s not my business nor the bishopric. I see green tea and coffee as a test of our willingness to sacrifice for the Lord. But unfortunately members of our church like to judge and mock members (Utah members especially) those who go inactive are because of those people who judged and mocked them for practicing their agency.
Loved the video btw