Myth III: The Wolf Age | Retro Reviews
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- A retrospective review of MumboJumbo's 2001 real-time tactical fantasy prequel, which was published by Gathering of Developers and followed on from Bungie's Myth: The Fallen Lords and Myth II: Soulblighter. Covers the history of the game's development, starting with how and why Bungie forfeited their rights to the series, how MumboJumbo became involved, Myth III's troubled development, and finally the backlash and aftermath of its release. Then discusses the gameplay, art and sound design, how to play it today, and the game's story. Many thanks to Scott Campbell, Rachel Clark, Craig Matchett, Jeoku, Jon God, and Anons for answering my questions. Timestamps are below. Enjoy!
P.S. A huge apology for my voice being all over the place for the first two chapters - I tried resolving some problems with my recording environment using Nvidia Voice, but discovered after about two hours of work that it had screwed up, and had to re-record several sections. Unfortunately I'm back to just waiting for an opportune time to record, which is why these videos are taking so long to get out now. (Also I'm lazy)
00:00 Opening
01:31 Chapter 1 - Introduction and Overview
12:22 Chapter 2 - Behind the Scenes
12:43 2:1 - Myth, Bungie, and Logicware
22:16 2:2 - MumboJumbo formed, Myth 3 enters development
37:42 2:3 - Myth III: The Wolf Age unveiled, road to release
55:40 2:4 - Release, backlash, and aftermath
1:09:53 Chapter 3 - Gameplay
1:10:11 3:1 - Gameplay Basics
1:20:44 3:2 - Gameplay Analysis
1:44:10 Chapter 4 - Sight and Sound
1:44:41 4:1 - The 3D Revolution and its consequences
1:51:15 4:2 - Visuals
2:09:33 4:3 - Audio
2:25:09 4:4 - Myth III on modern systems, extra content
2:32:06 4:5 - Myth III Tutu/AKA "Myth III Public Beta"
2:39:23 Chapter 5 - Story and Writing
2:39:53 5:1 - Story Overview (Moderate Spoilers)
3:06:26 5:2 - Story Analysis (Moderate-to-Major Spoilers)
3:37:36 Outro and Acknowledgements - Ігри
Extremely well done review. For what its worth, nothing stood out to me as inaccurate, except Ron Dimant's name. Pronounced "Dih-Mont" (unless the entire team was trolling). Some additional info (if I recall correctly) ... we didn't have a full team until 9 months before ship. Despite the difficulty, and the hours, the team was stellar. Many are lifelong friends that I talk with regularly. I really, really, miss Santa's Head.
Thanks Big F! Re: the name, I'd looked it up and just copied how another Dimant pronounced it, but you never know for sure with family names (the other Dimant was Israeli, I think your D was originally British iirc).
Really appreciate hearing from a team member on the video, and condolences for Craig. 🌠
It's criminal how good these videos are. The sheer amount of research is really impressive.
Fr its rare to find a video essay that actually sources original sources and dev interviews
You are the best video game essayist on youtube
Veeeery true!!
Amen
Absolute master journalist. interviews and everything
I'm not Sseth.:) Anyway keep in mind the video was only based on publicly available info and the handful of team members who responded to my emails. I'm sure people at GoD or Take2 might've had a different perspective regarding budgeting etc.
You are the best commenter on UA-cam
The amount of work you put into these videos is mind blowing. Keep showing us these forgotten pieces of gaming history.
Gamer Journalist 🗞️
Scott Campbell is a legend in my book for being such a nice guy with answering questions about Myth 3 and also putting in a valiant effort for Myth 3. Its too bad things didn't turn out better with working with Take 2 but he did his best with what he was given and we ended up with a fairly fun experience even though Myth 2 is still the crown jewel and it isn't really considered canon. Perhaps Mr Edders will talk to him more if he does a Fallout retro review!
Thanks for the shoutout and the great video! Come and watch my Myth series in-depth if you want to really dig into the Myth lore! It is really quite the adventure!
Just wanted to say your stuff is great. There are plenty of essayists rambling about old video games on UA-cam but you are easily one of the best. Keep the four hour vids coming!
I'm really trying to keep them down to 1.5-2 hrs if possible :P
I had no idea Myth 3 existed until now!
You know, there are some really good UA-cam long form analysis channels out there. Gingy, never knows best, your favorite son, Salt factory, ect. But, nobody is diving into these forgotten rpgs quite like you. I really appreciate your work. So many I have never heard of. I've been fascinated by your essays on them.
love never knows best, don't know the rest, but mr edders is one of those people i'll suddenly remember, go to see why i haven't seen any videos in awhile, and realize he hasn't posted anything. I make sure I'm subbed, then a day later, he posts a video.
This happened on this video and the last two videos. the timing is uncanny :P
Ah yes the elder scrolls cuck
Don't forget Noah Caldwell Jervais!
@@arranstewart319 Noah Caldwell-Gervais? 'Ooh look at me I made an artphag intro now I don't have to say anything'. Just moot points and soft arrogance - almost as bad as Joseph Anderson.
@@annaquay4183 sorry it ain't your cup of tea. Love his style personally.
The goat is back!
Just the other day I found someone talking about an old game Skyrealms of Jorune. Now I get a mredders video. I am spoiled this week, it seems, and I promise you I've done nothing good to deserve such lovely gifts.
Thank you for the hours of contented enjoyment this will yield, and thank you especially for all the work done on these three Myth videos. May your channel and life flourish and thrive.
Now this is just perfect timing, brother. Was just looking for a ~4hour long brilliantly delivered analysis of an old, obscure video game to sink my greedy teeth in, Hell yeah.
Stay frosty out there! Much appreciated
Coming home from an incredibly hard day at work to see a new upload from you is.. a bright point. Thank you
The plot of these games reminds me of Glen Cook's super-influential The Black Company book series.
It should, cause those books were major inspirations for the series.
Ah Edders mentions it in the 14th minute 😁 I fell in the trap of commened without watching the whole video.
The Black Company is great.
Yup…Myth and The Black Company go hand in hand. The Fallen vs the Ten Who Were Taken.
Wish more fantasy series derived from them.
I talked about it a bit more in the 1st and 2nd Myth videos. :)
You put more work into these PC Gaming "also-rans" than most do into the classics. Thanks for doing this.
I love the Myth games and I had no idea 3 existed. I've gone decades without knowing. Crazy. I'll probably give it a shot in spite of the shortsteps. Just out of my own curiousity.
Heyy welcome back buddy!! Great video and glad you are back MrEdders
Hard to believe it's been 9 months since I first watched your Myth II: Soulblighter analysis. This is great. Well worth the wait.
Always nice to see one video coming from you! Thank you sir!
Hey thanks for putting out a movie bro. Its so hard to make videos even 5 minutes long imo. Thank you
Battle Realms not only mentioned but given a rather big spotlight in this video is bringing major nostalgia to my sad self. We don't talk about it much nowadays and its pretty forgotten but Battle Realms is that game which Blizzard team played when they were DEEP into production of Warcraft 3 and said: Shit, we need to step up and get on their level. 😂 which they did. ❤
It's a tragedy that I've only now come across this channel, fantastic videos man I hope you get the UA-cam recognition you deserve!
One of the best RTS series ever made! I bought Myth III in a game store back in the day, But when I installed the game, I installed standard QuickTime, which made the sound and graphics fine!
yes! been waiting for this one!
Man, every time You cite gaming press saying something like "2D graphics are obsolete" or "the gameplay is outdated" I can't help but sigh loudly.
Anyway, good stuff man, keep it coming.
Welcome back Edders, also I remember I bought this game as I was a big fan of Myth series, shame that this game was a big disappointment for me. But that could be that I was playing an unpatch version.
Dunno why Bungie doesn't release the Myth series again, I mean it not like they have anything to lose with extra cash instead of milking Halo dry.
PC Zone, how nostalgic... I still beat myself for throwing away my 10 years of collected PC Zone magazine where my favorite writers Charlie Brooker, Paul "Macca" McCandles and Chris Anderson was still writing. Also some funny panels like Mr Cursor and Culky corner.
Talk about the "Daimyo" project... I wonder if this failed project inspired Shogun Total War?
Bungie don't have any legal connection to Myth, it's all Take2's decision AFAIK. Although even if they did, I'm not sure modern Bungie would be interested in an old RTT/RTS property nowadays.
Daimyo did actually have the same historical advisor as Shogun (Stephen Turnbull), though I don't think there was any connection between the two projects. Shogun began development around a similar time as Myth IIRC, originally as a cheap also-ran RTS, and was probably more heavily influenced by titles like Napoleon (the 3d battlefield version) and some grand strategy titles Mike Simpson helped port back in the early 90s, in particular a Feudal japan 4x with minigames whose title I've forgotten.
@@MrEdders123 Bungie basically sold their soul when Halo become their biggest cash cow.
Anyways Stephen Turnbull was a samurai era expert back in book era when Internet was still sparse and there wasn't any dedicated wiki like page or UA-camrs who are way more knowledgeable.
After Myth 3. Any plans for other games? Ever dare to check out Zombieville? Someone recently managed to get the game running after 20 years later. It was an infamous half finish game that was released in Alpha state. But depends which country, the European one was unplayable while US can at least be finish although with occasional crash
According to Ed Fries (the key Microsoft guy involved) Bungie were going bankrupt at the time, so it was probably mostly financial issues.
Next video is Soulbringer, then probably Martian Dreams...I'm trying to clear as much of my backlog from starting the channel as I can over the next year or so, so probably mostly adventure and CRPGs🙃 @@hanchiman
@@MrEdders123 Soulblighter was my favorite game in early 2000. Also it interesting that Bungie used Japanese animation (which was really rare at the time as most English speaking world didn't have much anime except Pokemon and Sailor Moon in late 90's) which really suited the game.
Anyways a youtuber friend gave me a patch that allow me to install and run Myth 2 in Window 10. As I was replaying it. Realized it really have aged a bit and didn't have as fond memory like in the past. Although the story is still great.
Hyper magazine!. Going back to my childhood now
Wow that's cool 😎
Yeh, it was an Australian gaming mag that did all the consoles, plus anime, comics, gaming culture. It was an Aussie institution. RIP
Yes!!! Been looking forward to this. I'm a huge fan of the Chronicles of the Black Company books and your first video on this series interested me so much since Myth is clearly inspired by it. And it got me into all your other videos. Love them all, super excited to watch this! :D
I approach these videos as I do a movie at a theatre: food, coffee, and my phone set to silent. As always, your hard work is without peer and I'm _especially_ looking forward to Soulbringer!
I think one of the Myth 3 artists ended up on Battle Realms: Winter of the Wolf or whatever the mini-XP was called. I remember Liquid's next game, War of the Ring, was very heavily criticized for being a "Warcraft III clone". :/
This is actually the first in the series I managed to beat. I didn't really have any problems with it, way back in... Must have been fairly soon after it launched.
Thanks again for the video!
Your research in these videos is incredible, thanks for another great review ^^
🎉🎉🎉
Dude - I love all this work you did. I always wondered the background on all this.
Babe! Wake up! Mr. Edders just dropped some fresh heat. 🔥
Nice to see Populous The Beginning mentioned, it's among my top-2 RTSs of all time (with Total Annihilation) due to its unique atmosphere and land shaping mechanics. I was a rts-fiend back then - and still my favorite genre. Myth was certainly a top-notch multiplayer when it was released, competing against AoE, and SC and TA in popularity. Man what a time to be alive that was.
I really want to cover Populous 3 one day, problem is I don't like jumping into latter entries unless it's a spinoff title or something, so I'll have to get through at least the first two games first 🥲
The first two ones were great as well, and they should have interesting enough birth story for warranting a retrospective.
Watching your videos makes every other video game essayist on youtube feel like amateur hour
Haha mine are terribly edited. I'm just happy anyone watches them. 😶🌫
I did enjoy this video! Thank you as always for the effort and work you put into these.
Your videos are incredible. Kudos to you and I hope you keep up the amazing work!
Never heard of this series before your videos, but your video essays are super well done!
Yesss... I love this game so much
Your videos are always a treat and well researched thanks edd
Hell yes love your videos!
Thanks for another great video!
we love the long, keep it up famsies!
I was just thinking that it would be cool to see a video about Soulbringer, a game that I have never played, but which has always intrigued me, and lo and behold, what do I see at 3:43:06.
After Mandalore reviewed the first two, I really wanted to know the story of this one. Cheers
Masterful retrospective, as always, you do a good job showcasing all angles of discussion. This one in particular highlights why Bungie once was a great development studio. Maybe the lessons here will inspire someone to create their own innovative game, in this valley of dry bones the gaming industry finds itself in.
Fantastic video! Never got into Myth but this video has made me a fan 🙂
I have never played alot of the games you make videos on. I know of most them from back in the day, seeing them in stores or magazines. Its very interesting.
Anyway great video. Keep it up. :)
The Myth game I never played. I'm really looking forward to this video 😊
This is incredibly well researched, Im shocked by the depth and accuracy
myth really needed more responsive units for how much microing is required.
Binging your videos since I found your channel couple days ago. Excellent content!
Hoping Prince of Qin is on your list eventually, would love a retrospective on that.
Not a while but yeah Prince of Qin is something I'd like to cover, I played Seal of Evil back when it came out but not PoQ.
A fantastic rundown, as always. The behind the scenes drama REALLY reminds me of a cyclical universe. A lot of the acidic feedback on Myth III is exactly how reading Halo comment sections feels in 2020s. Though at least Myth fans had it easy, they weren't exposed to Master Cheeks.
I just noticed that for some reason UA-cam filtered your comment. Maybe it doesn't like mockery of Master Chief lol
Thank you for another amazing documentary
Thanks for covering the last game. I’ve anticipated this since discovering your channel through the first video. It’s too bad the game was so rushed and had a small budget. When you were talking about the story and how the gameplay doesn’t match the scale I was thinking it would’ve worked better as a Total War game. Too bad the gameplay and story clash.
I wish that these games would get a rerelease. It’s a good thing that fan sites have kept them alive, but most people aren’t willing to jump through several hoops to get a game working.
It’s too bad that the Myth series is dead. There’s a lot of cool stuff that can be done with it. Then again, the gameplay is VERY niche within an already niche genre. There’s also a lot of ways it could go wrong.
Something I find truly hilarious about Bungie is they’ve always wanted to be independent. That’s why their tried to get bought by Apple, were acquired by Microsoft, left them to join Activision, and left them to join Sony. Sony really overpaid for Bungie since they quickly turned into a dumpster fire after leaving Microsoft and most of the people who made Bungie what it was jumped ship. In fact, modern Bungie is so bad that they were better managed by Activision. What makes the Activision Blizzard purchase even funnier is if it happened a few years prior Bungie would’ve returned to their stranglehold.😂
Great video and keep up the good work👍
I really enjoyed your videos, as someone who has played most of the games you have reviewed in detail. Thorough and enjoyable reviews. Also subbed.
May I also suggest a review of Arx Fatalis?
Arx Fatalis is possible, but would likely be a while away, since I'd really need to cover titles like Ultima Underworld first in order to have stuff to say 🤔
Great vid, you really do some stellar research
Thanks! Though a lot of the info came from that original interview with Scott Campbell, plus a follow up exchange I had with him and other people last year.
an almost 4 hour video in length?? for a Myrh 3 review?? omg... :D +1
Finally got through the video, i think this is your best one yet. The amount of research and the work put into editing is marvelous. In particular the delve into long forgotten forums, boards and ancient issues of gaming magazines make me smile. Although i feel another game, one that is widely considered above mediocre, would have been more than deserving of your time, i understand wanting to complete the series and it still was very interesting to listen to, even having only played the first game very briefly. Excited for your next project!
If a game were widely considered above mediocre, people with better editing skills than me would already have made videos on it :P
Thanks dude. What a prize on a sunday w no football!
I am very glad I found your channel.
You are the Werner Herzog of game documentarians. Thank you
:O
Been waiting for this as a myth fan. I think this game was very much a victim of ambition and lack of oversight, but I still loved playing it. Shame the series is dead forever now.
Only starting the vid but wanted to say "thank you" and commend ya on yer amazing video essays.
Thank you for watching 😁
Wow just finished watching and what a video, top tier among the best
Thank you!
I always feel the need to note that any old game with a dead online matxhmaking system that supports LAN play can be played online, to this day, via the Kali client. Ol granddad still lookin out
Welcome back buddy
Nice to see you have overcome your difficulties with recording.
I haven't :(
@@MrEdders123 😣😣
Good stuff again, pray for the algorithm!
No way
Hell yea!
myth series is amazing I wish we had more and the original halo rts
Bungie is letting the people behind Aleph One put Marathon 1-3 on Steam (one of the few smart things modern Bungie has done. Let’s hope it has Steam Workshop because there’s a lot of cool mods). If only Take2 would let the Myth community be in charge of putting the Myth games on Steam/GOG.
From what I've been told, there were discussions of that nature but nothing came of them.
That’s too bad that Take2 won’t rerelease them. Not sure why. There’s already people willing to do that for them.
Thanks for posting the Myth 3 video. It was definitely interesting.
Kudos!
Why hello
A proper deep dive that. Remember reading the reviews of both Myth II and III in PCZone (the UK's Best mag).
Though having heard any word beginning with 'un' being pronounced as 'on' all the way through has given me a twitch...
I were not notified about this video for some reason.
Probably need to click the "bell" icon as well as subscribing, or so other channels always say :)
@@MrEdders123It is clicked man. UA-cam us wierd like this.
I dunno then, maybe shadowbanning, maybe usual UA-cam nonsense 🥺@@GregDevStuff
👌
👍
I've been waiting for this and yeah, I never got to play the third one...
What an unfortunate fate this entry met. I wonder if there was more budget transparency, we'd have a sense of scale of human investment in projects... And, it's interesting getting the historical perspective of how group-minded many review outlets could be, in spite of disagreeing on select things, with the critical force of reviewers at the time causing game companies to capitulate... sheesh. It's probably a good thing the landscape of the relationship with media has changed.
Damn, I almost missed this one, since I've already made peace with the fact it's going to be probably 2025 untill next vid ;D
I played the first one quite a bit when it came out. I kinda gave up cause I just couldn’t progress after getting to a certain point in the game.
Might have played it before the first (maybe second?) patch. The difficulty level was nerfed up to (I think) Normal at that point, and timid became so easy berserks could almost solo Trow.
I was unaware there was even a myth 3.
"The Exploding whites" is what the Irish were called in the 70s.
lol
used to watch my brother and dad play the first two myths (only played a little myself i was so bad at it) but i used to pretend i was one of those tall fast ones that like try to draw your units away from the group, used to run around the playground like a little idiot lol
Wait … _there‘s a part 3_ ?!?!? 🎉
Wow wow
😢👋Thank you!
Bungie: Being free of Microsoft will allow true creativity and evolution instead of having to work on Halo.
Also Bungie: Now we bring you Micropay Halo: The Online Series from Activision!
And in so long a time Take 2 has done nothing with the IP.... so sad
Maybe a blockchain gacha mobile game :P
would love a rise of nations video
Probably won't be covering another RTS again for a long time on the channel, sorry :p
You put more work into your videos than I put into my marriage.
1:41:33 I think you mean vortices
Both are acceptable according to most style guides desu
Seems like no one can continue a franchise well after Bungie is done with it, even the new Bungie themselves.
Prey?
?
@@MrEdders123 sorry haha have you ever considered covering Prey? (2017)
@@panamahank7108 Oh, sorry. Umm as a general rule I don't cover FPS, though I might make exceptions now and again (I might do the original SiN for example). To be honest Prey would be difficult as I really didn't follow the game at all back in the day (I did play it at release though). Are there not already retrospectives like that on Prey? I thought its development was quite well known in retro FPS circles.
@MrEdders123 there certainly are, and I understand if that's not exactly up your alley for content. I only recently discovered your channel (like within the last week or two) and have seen a couple of your videos. Which I very much enjoy by the way. I didn't know if you covered RPG's in a broad spectrum or a more specific version of the genre. If you're more CRPG focused, have you played Wasteland 3? If that's missing the mark, what would be more in line with what you're interested in?
@@panamahank7108 I generally just cover games that are at least 20 years old, though make exceptions for obscure stuff (like point and click adventures). Broadly I'll cover any kind of PC RPG ("real" RPG, ARPG etc.) and adventure game but I like to do one-offs on other genres sometimes, like RTS or action games (especially fantasy) :)
Reviewer that said that 3D models were beautiful and much better than "mediocre sprites" should be fired and ban from reviewing games ever again...
Ah yeah... good old school opening party of a game, booze and girls. Something that is not possible to do without getting "shit storm" by certain sensitive groups.
you poor oppressed goymers, literally 1984
Yeah, that kind of late 90's, early 2000's edginess would never fly at a mainstream event today. But the "sensitive groups" are not the issue. Video games are big money these days. And no dev that wants to sell to the median consumer. Can get away with marketing like that. The booze and babes, where aimed directly at young men. I was one myself at the time. So I loved that kind of thing.
@@youngimperialistmkii well it kinda ironic. Back in early 2000 with all these edgy booze and babe era. I actually shunned it and thought it was "cheap desperate marketing and downright insulting to gamers as sexual frustrated virgins". But nowadays for some reason, sort of miss these booze and babe promo out of "nostalgia"
@@hanchiman same
At least a couple of them were (I assume deliberately) very obviously transvestites, which was a running joke in press coverage.
I just realized I never actually watched this, whoops.
😲