Bought a 2011 F150 Ecoboost extended cab for $27,000 out the door in the summer of 2011. Paid off in 2014, so now approaching a decade with no payments and 230,000 miles on the clock. With these insane prices it will continue to be daily driven for another 230,000 miles.
@@Jay-bw3fl I am aware of several Ecoboost F150's and Expedition's that are in that ballpark already. But, just FYI, that's 35000 miles a year even for an early 2011 model year build. I feel like there are far better vehicles to be putting that many miles on in that amount of time, like a diesel, so I wouldn't expect to many. it will be years before we start seeing a lot of F150s north of 300k.
Agree'd. I bought a 2014 Lariat Supercrew 4x4 with virtually every option in early 2015 for ~$46k OTD. Same truck now, 8.5 years later, would be $70k. You can't even get into a supercrew 4x4 with the 3.5L of any trim for $46k now since they are not discounted heavily yet, but I think we will start to see that soon. The cheapest XL crew cab within 100 miles of me is listed at $47k before taxes.
I have a 2012 with a 5.0 and I agree. I refuse to pay what they are charging for trucks today. I take care of my stuff. My truck still looks good, and runs good. I'll buy a low milage used truck before I ever reward Ford, GM or Ram by buying a new truck from them.
Prices are outrageous because people keep paying those outrageous prices. If enough people stop paying those higher prices they will come down or at least level off.
They already are stopping. I am starting to see somewhat decent discounts on F150's where I am and Ford just had to take 10k off the MSRP of the Lightning.
Talked to a builder in upper midwest who has used the Amish for labor. Pre Covid they were about 20/hr...now they are 38/hr. Inflation is very real in labor costs.
I bought my first pickup truck 3 years ago. It is a 97 F150. Love the truck. Cost me $4500 with 134K miles. Have invested less than 1K so far on repairs. Love the truck and will never pay $60K for a new truck.
Here in SC we went to look at the new Toyota Tacoma Trail at the dealership and they wanted 66k...The website for toyota listed it for 44k fully loaded. I walked out saying no damn way My friend went looked at the military green tundra it was marked up 82k Maybe this the reason Japan toyota ceo said they offer buy direct cutting out the dealerships
the lousy part about that is in certain states you can do that , in most states you can't from old federal laws back in the day passed under the fair competition act if memory serves me correctly ,i was in the industry for a number years before i left to do my own business, for Toyota to do this would a handful of years and probably a few billion in legal fees , worse yet 2 of the northeastern states tried to have the right to repair law taken away from consumers for their vehicles long as were in the new vehicle warranty, most are 3 years and if you happen to extend your factory warranty ,well that would have meant 5 or 6 years, that could make you go broke,
@@302Mustang13depends on what kinda milage you do a year to be honest here in texas we average about 30-36k a year 5 years of that is what 150-180k while for some people that no big deal but most people would have to pay a shop to do even the minor repairs so
@@MalphMaisy actually, ford was in worse shape than gm and chrysler. They took out loans while cash was available. They even mortgaged their iconic blue oval. By the time gm and chrysler needed loans that well dried up.
@@MalphMaisy point is they were in worse shape than gm and chrysler. Point is they were lucky credit was available when they needed it. Point is if it wasn’t for lucky timing they would’ve needed a bailout too.
Roman mentioned it inside of the last minute. "Rebates". My 3 year old F150 came with substantial mfg to dealer rebates and other incentives, and that didn't include what I could negotiate with the dealer. For the last couple of years there haven't been any rebates and dealers, rather than negotiating the price, were asking substantial ADM. My wife put off her recent Toyota Rav4 purchase for TWO YEARS. She ended up paying full MSRP, while the dealer across town wanted an additional $9300 and didn't seen interested in negotiating. The claim was "we're selling every one right off the truck at these prices".
So glad to see this video. My one worry about UA-cam vehicle reviews is that they focus on what’s better without regard to price. Times are changing. The people who would pay whatever it costs to get a bigger screen or faster engine have already bought. People who pay cash or actually pay things off, are money constrained, or just don’t want to be taken advantage of are the new audience.
Only expensive because people have been willing to pay the price, specially those that buy them just to look big and never actually use the truck for anything truck related. I have to drive my 03 until the wheels fall off due to new prices. They are tools for me and I can't justify that price knowing it's going to get scratches and dents from work.
In other news, CEO pay has skyrocketed 1,460% since 1978, while typical worker pay grew by just 18% they just need to stop ripping us off. While $7.25 is minimum wage
Those CEOs deserve their ever growing piece of the pie. It's only because of their family and elite business school connections that our paychecks get to have their signature on them. Their pay increases may have been devaluing our paychecks faster than overall inflation over the past 3 decades, but it just means we need to work 26 hours a day to make the same as our parents working 14. We have to do our part.
Are the typical workers responsible if the company goes under or faces a major lawsuit? How much debt and risk are the typical workers taking? How many typical workers have the education of CEOs?
That's misleading. Since 1978, most people aren't at a working wage anymore, and they're certainly not at minimum wage. Today, most people have other sources of income, or they have salaries and benefits that are apart of a combined income. In 1978, the average household income was around $15,000. Today, it's more around $88,000 per single income houses and well over $100,000 for combined income households. It's probably increased about 500%, which is staggering. Your increase in CEO pay is also misleading. Most CEO pay is not salary or base pay, its compensation packages that includes various benefits and bonuses that are often tied to the growth of the company. Their actual take home is probably less than inflation, because that's prefered by the boards. For example. Thomas Murphy, CEO of GM in 1978, had a salary of $600,000/year. Today, Mary Barra makes $2.1 million/year. That's a take home increase of only 250%, not 1,460%%, which is less than typical wage increase for factory workers at GM and less than the general income increase for all workers. Now, Mary's compensation is large, but that's because the company demands results, and they'll pay her depending on the results she delivers. With all that said, CEO pay isn't at all the reason for prices increasing. Even if you took every penny from Mary's salary, it still wouldn't even lower the cost of truck by 1%! She could become a slave to the company, being paid nothing, and you'd still be paying $100,000 for a Denali. CEO pay has little to do with why trucks cost so much.
While the CEO in my neighborhood at the McDonald's is making buku money. They still can't afford to hire employees to work. Almost every day they have to close early because the staff is all called out. So I guess that $40 a day isn't doing much to keep the business open but the CEO making $100,000 a day so smart.
The gross amount of money spent on potential fuel savings will never be recouped by the actual money saved in fuel costs saved. They're wasting money on the pursuit for better fuel efficiency but they're padding all the supplier and their own pockets. Which is the real bottom line.
People sometimes lose focus on one prime reason to drive more efficient vehicles - to try and reduce carbon and do in small part and I mean small.. but try to do something about the global warming / climate change. I will pay a bit more to do my part It's not much but I'll do what I can.
Yes, I did a video showing it will take almost 2 years of fuel savings to recover the extra $1500 it now costs to upgrade to a Maverick hybrid version.
@@mikesawyer1336yes, there's absolutely nothing like padding the cost of vehicles toa pay for clean air when major pollutants like China and India are crushing anything America does to improve the air. Oh, and I don't buy into anything that the Globalists want to dictate, nor should any American. We're not international slaves or serfs.
I've seen videos of people saying that no one wants to buy trucks because they are getting really expensive and that trucks are not selling, and the prices are going down. And now with this video, I found out the prices are going up again. I just saw used trucks 2019 in particular with well over 100k miles and they are asking $40k for a truck like that.
Just wanted to tell TFL this is probably my favorite channel on UA-cam to watch, from the testing to drag racing to explaining why the prices have gotten out of hand. Thanks for all ya'll do. I like my 2008 F150. It has a radio & A/C "yes radio not stereo" & that's it for luxury. No cruse, no power windows, no power door locks, no automatic transmission, just a plain & simple work truck that will keep me cool on the hottest days, and that's all I need.
This is crazy! My 08 and 09 are just a useful, and good-looking as they were when I bought them. I cannot justify buying a truck that cost almost half as much as my house.
I love my 2022 Ford Powerboost XL. I ordered it the way I wanted it and cut a lot of the fat. I was inspired by Andre’s truck. Thank you guys for keeping it real.
I graduated high school in 1995, and when I compare my 2015 Mustang gt & 2020 F250 which I bought both habrand new and adjust for inflation to 1995 prices, my mustang was cheaper in 2015, than it was in 1995, and the trim level I have on my F250 didn't exist back then, but the closest I could get in only $ 1200 cheaper in 1995 dollars. I also looked at my household income in 1995 dollars and that of the lowest paid people at my company (interns) in 1995 dollars, and we're all paid a bit more today than we would have been for the same job in 1995. (Not sure if interns even got paid back then). I get that as a number is pretty high today, but in buying power is barely moved.
I'm fine with my 2021 Jeep Gladiator (Rubicon) which was "overpriced" (some said) back then...but look at their prices now. Glad I got mine when I did. Now I'm just waiting for HOUSE prices AND the mortgage interest rate (more important really) to drop so I can buy a new house. Already got my new (but "overpriced") truck. ;-) -- BR
Quit buying trucks outfitted like rolls royce's, and they'll start producing more reasonably priced ones. As long as all these people with more money than sense buy them, they'll keep making them and stocking the high end to make the bigger margin.
I work with plastic injection molds and the amount of complexity and over engineering they’re putting into parts that nobody even sees or cares about is crazy
went to a toyota dealership in my town for a new 4runner trd pro. $58,000ish base and they marked it up $10,000ish and were trying to get me to go for it at $68,000 and some change. their reasoning: we need to mark it up so someone doesn’t buy it from us, take it to a different state and sell it for more than they bought it for. so i went to a different toyota dealer and got an equally equipped 4runner trd pro for $8,000 cheaper, 57,000ish with only a $3,000 mark up, making the total $60,000ish. still an insane price but it’s my dream truck and i wanted to get the v6 before toyota makes the 4runner a v4 turbo pos.
Okay the dealer i don't think is following manufacturer policy. Toyota has cracked down on this, but the dealer is right in a way. Toyota supplies inventory in certain areas and its allocated. What was happening were people (other businesses) was buying up the cars at msrp and shipping them elsewhere to be sold higher. This obviously upset local people as the inventory would be wiped out. The dealers responded by raising prices to prevent the lot from being sold out and having the cars marked up again and sold elsewhere. From toyotas perspective supplying various dealers and regionals markets they were getting messed up as well as suddenly a region would be wiped of stock as it went to another. Customers walking on a lot would see hardly any inventory. Big problem, toyota not happy. Dealer not happy (transferred cars they dont make service $ on plus locals get upset). Far as i know toyota decided a solution. When you buy a vehicle (i just did) they ask you to sign a legal document saying within the first year the dealer gets first priority in buying the vehicle back from you. If you sign the paper, you get msrp or maybe below. Toyota Corp doesn't want the vehicles over msrp. It messes them up and their data and market. They want dealers selling at least at msrp. They also dont want someone buying out a lot and moving the vehicles for resale in another region. That messes up inventory control. So they came out with this paper. Dealers should be doing this now. Offer the contract, guarantee no resale in a year unless back to the dealer. You get no markup. Ask the dealer you talked to about this. The dealer is right, but also per toyota they need to be offering the year contract and selling not above msrp
@@itsallminor6133 when i go in to sign the final paperwork i will ask about that contract option, thanks for the heads up. hopefully it works out for me
@@donnyd8890show them This if need be. Maybe call toyota. I ended up about $350 under msrp and they threw in a tonneau cover for the truck. Oh never mind you already bought
$100k pickups are not sustainable in the market place. Even business who can write off depreciation will eventually come up against a budget that won't afford that. People stop buying these trucks at these prices. Piles of inventory will force someone to adjust their prices to maintain market share.
We had a ZR2 in our inventory for over 90 days before we finally sold it, and we weren't asking 1 penny over MSRP. Our policy is we don't sell anything for more than MSRP.
One way to save money is to buy “less truck” with the same capability. What I mean by that is that, as you say, today’s trucks are much more capable. So, you can buy a mid-sized truck that has the capability (payload, towing) of a “full-sized” truck of 20 years ago.
My Jeep is a 2004. My pickup is a 2020. I just put in LED head lights in both this month. $135.00. The light bulbs. I love them. Huge difference. They were worth every penny. Made my night driving way safer.
The other crappy thing too, is the manufacturers may list prices starting at 37k for a base model, but dealerships don't actually stock them. Cheapest tundra at the dealer near me is 55k. Ridgeline 50k. Even Ford's don't have base models. Dirty tricks.
I have a '17 330i, and had a '04 Wrangler LJ, and was thinking earlier this year about selling both to fund the purchase of a 2020 or 2021 Silverado RST. After seeing the prices, I sold the Wrangler, bought an '07 Avalanche with low miles, and couldn't be happier. It's tough to justify spending so much on a truck for most of us that only need them for light towing and trips to and from the hardware store.
Right now it doesn't make any sense to me to buy a 1-2 year old used truck/SUV. They want nearly the same as a new one. I am a dealer and you wouldn't believe what we have to pay at auctions. Why I haven't been buying much the last few years. Auctions don't have nearly as many cars and its mostly just junk. Then the handful of stuff you might actually want is just insane. There was a 2021 Tahoe I was interested in last sale I went to. It was the offroad model can't think of what the trim is the ones you see with the red tow hooks. It was bid up to $65k. Pretty sure you can get one brand new for that kind of money. Imagine if you looked you could probably find one new for $5k more and this is a dealer only sale so the guy that bought that Tahoe is going to want to make something so he is probably going to ask $70k for it. Most all I have bought the last few years has been from private sales or bank repos. The repos are getting ridiculous now too. More people are bidding on them than ever so I haven't really even bought many of those lately. I know I was high bidder on a lot of them then the bank calls me telling me I didn't meet their reserve and offer me whatever I was bidding on for a few grand more then I bid and I normally always just say no and it will get auctioned off again. Sometimes I get it the 2nd or 3rd time around for less then what I bid the first time since they are never going to get what they want. Those repos are always pigged out, always need oil changes, brakes, tires, batteries, almost always have the check engine light on. I have bought some only to find out they are blown up or need trannies since you can't drive them or anything before bidding.
As long as middle classes are willing to finance $70k+ for a vehicle, the price will keep going up. The rich will always have what they want but there are fewer of them.
Isn’t it ironic that for all the reasons stated in this video for the exorbitant prices , many people have been priced out of the market for new cars , and are hanging on to ten, twenty , even 30 year old vehicles because all these new whizz bang vehicles with the safety gear are now unobtainable to the average person.
My take on fully loaded vs base level: Every one of the 3 cars I have ever bought new were base level. I 4 season daily drove two of those for over ten years each. One 11 years, the other 17, and I'm currently in 6 years for the 3rd. I buy base because there are fewer gadgets to break. As a result the first two were extremely reliable and the 3rd is doing great. (Knock on wood.) What I've noticed is that even the base trim levels have more features as standard. with my most recent car being what would have been high luxury compared to the first. I think people are WAY too far into the false idea that they MUST get x or y feature. Brainwashed consumerism. I love my simple(r) cars.
Manufacturers/Dealers are taking advantage of the folks that are forking over their hard earned money for vehicles that are priced through the roof. If consumers gave their heads a good shake and stopped buying at these ridiculous prices, the manufacturers and dealers would smarten the hell up and lower prices. Here in Canada I've seen prices for most trucks go up by around $15-20k since 2020. That's beyond nridiculous, but what's even more ridiculous is the fact that consumers are still buying at the outragous prices. Smdh.
Just built out a Lariat Powerboost because I'm in need of a new vehicle and yeah.. optioned just the way I wanted it brought it up to $92k Cad. The only "good" thing right now at least compared to say Toyota, is Fords interest rates are like 3.5% compared to 7-9%
Back in 2017 picked up a new F150 XLT 5.0 4wd Supercab 8’ box with just a backup camera and no driver assist nonsense for $47k CAD, at same dealer now for a 2023 XLT is $75k.
Let’s not forget all the automotive reviewers/writers complaining that so-and-so manufacturer doesn’t have a large enough screen or enough off-road tech. But not you guys, of course.
I'm not sure how you would cover something like this, but upgrading a used vehicle can save you lots of money. I bought a 2004 Toyota land cruiser for 15000, I put 30000 (and still adding cool stuff) worth of upgrades and off road (bumpers, roof rack, extra fuel tank, winches, etc) to it as well as an interior restoration. Now I have a 45000 dollar vehicle (that cost 61000 new in 2004) that will last the rest of my life and is built EXACTLY the way I want it, not the way the manufacturer wants it. Granted, milage sucks, and it doesnt have a computer monitor in it but it doesn't have thousands of components that will break and need fixing. And If I had to guess, my Toyota Land Cruiser will out last them all.
My 2012 F250 King Ranch 6.7 diesel that I bought used was top of the line for that year and msrp was $62K. Now an equivalent top of the line diesel pickup is now pushing $100K. Granted, there is a lot of new tech, gadgets, creature comforts being put into newer trucks but not 40K worth of it. F that. Bring back fairly priced vehicles.
8:10 the same amount of plexiglass in two packs of replacement welding helmet lenses as one of those super duty head lights... one of the two was $34, $16 when on sale. just because of its shape and use.
There's another factor as well: The world is getting richer and wants a Western/US lifestyle, and more wealthy, foreign countries now suddenly want American trucks. Australia, China, Saudi Arabia and others are buying trucks and they want US trucks and that means they compete with US consumers to get to buy the same trucks from the same manufacturers and from the same factory. And as long as these trucks sell well, the manufacturers can keep increasing the price. Other countries also get richer, such as India, which means more demand and higher prices for raw materials that go into making trucks, such as iron ore for steel that goes into making the frame or oil price for rubber and plastics.
I am happy with a manual transmission option, but it’s getting harder to find that option. And the manufacturers don’t offer manuals in the higher performance models.
I just bought a 2018 Ram 2500 4x4 Big Horn with the crew cab and the Cummins diesel. I paid just over $40k for it with 61k miles and the new ones are like $80k! Guess I'll be keeping mine for a long time, God willing
It started in Louisiana after the 2020 hurricanes, the prices shot up, but at the time I drove to Texas, Arkansas and Mississippi and the prices were what they originally were before the hurricanes, so were the lumber prices. I rode along with a friend last year who knows the owner of multiple dealerships about an hour away, in Louisiana, and the truck he wanted was listed at almost 65k, he got the fully loaded 4x4, four door silverado for 1k over the price the dealer paid for the truck, 38k and he drove it home, no trade in, just final price. He asked the owner why are prices like this, the owner said, "after the hurricanes we started charging 50k to 70k over msrp because we seen the need for trucks after the hurricanes destroyed everything, then the other dealerships around the country seen the profits we were making and followed the mark up, and as long as people are going to hand me this money, I'm going to the bank with a large smile and no one can stop me" it's called gouging and is supposed to be illegal, but they're getting away with it. Don't believe me, I don't care, I was there, I heard this dealership owner say this and watched the paperwork signed on a brand new truck that was listed for 65k purchased for 38k.
$16,000 in rebates and dealer participation in 2019 for my F150 XLT Sport FX4 super-crew. Now the same truck is $10,000 more MSRP and little to no rebates or dealer participation. I won’t pay it, but others will. Paid $38,000 for my truck brand new. Can’t buy anything close to that now.
Everything you said makes sense, even though I don't like it. I want to say my 2021 Ram 1500 Laramie MSRP went up around $5000 in 2022 for the same spec truck. Same engine, trans, options, ect. Only justification I can think of is the supply chain shortage. Glad I got mine when I did though.
I was looking at a 2022 that was still on the dealer lot. They were at 4 grand under MSRP and would not budge a penny on the price. Every week I sent them an email with my offer and they sent me a link back to other trucks. Someone bought it for what they were asking a couple of days ago. I think I will be looking for a used truck.
The safety aspect cannot be overstated here... the way the safety tests are passed is by making the cars come apart when they are hit. This means they basically aren't repairable and it they are more complicated to manufacture.
Something I noticed: dealers tell you they will buy your truck based on KBB trade in values...when you arrive the dealer uses NADA, and regardless how clean and equipment is installed in your truck, they will give you "rough" trade value. Using NADA entering your VIN will give you the base model level of your truck (base XLT, LARIAT, LIMITED, etc.) The options are thrown out the equation. When you use KBB and enter ALL the features installed in your truck, even the "rough" trade-in value is about $8k above the NADA values. Then, the dealer uses all those features to market and sell your truck. Example: I took my 2019 F250 xlt premium, fx4, 6.2L (30k mls) to a local dealer. My KBB research showed a trade-in value of $47.5 - 49.8k...the dealer used NADA and it shows $39.9k "rough" trade on a clean, mint, like-new condition truck. Of course I walked...they had a 2019 XL with, plain-jane, 6.2L for sale @ $49k...my guess was, they will highlight all the features on my truck and price it around $54k, which was $2k above private sale value! Dealers are reaping us off in any way, shape and form. Also, did you know that if you trade in, they will take your tax savings for themselves? Oh yes, they already have a $3k mark up on traded calculated in, as soon as you say "trade".
There is no question trucks (and cars in general) have more features and are more luxurious. That said, many people would like to get a basic extended or crew cab truck 4X4 without all of the extra bells and whistles.
Hopefully it's all governed by a free market system - if/when excess pricing causes sales to fall off, manufacturers will be forced to trim it back one way or another. Manufacturers are also slightly behind consumers wants/needs, as these change, they must follow suit, it's all driven by the almighty dollar. Consumers as a group need to realize the power that they have - refuse to pay dealers' greed factor markups, let stock languish on their lots unsold and they will be forced to take $'s out of the equation.
I bought a 21 ford f150 limited 3.5 powerboost hybrid fully loaded with nothing deleted for 72k ish in 2022 with 14k miles. Per kbb and other data, it was actually a little cheaper than book value. Now days these new limited f150 has stuff deleted and still sale for 80-90k with is ridiculous.
Everything is going up, and will always do so. Higher labor cost, higher materials costs, and more tech at all trim levels (10 air bags cost more than 2, etc.). About all we can hope for is the death of the market adjustments (dealer over msrp) and bring back the good ole days of rebates.
I can't buy it without proof (I need to see the books and cross verify with all the suppliers). I had a 2019 F-150 with a generous $12,000 rebate. Now...The same (more or less) pickup goes for about $59,000 with maybe a $2,000 rebate. It has shared development costs of most of the electronics with all other Ford vehicles. It shares the transmission with GM. It has colossal sales. The trailer hitch (stand alone) now goes for $315 vs. $150 in 2019. Just plain old steel. Most of the price increase is due to high markups and hardly and incentives. You're not getting that much more now than in 2019, but the asking price is tremendously more.
Our percentages are roughly 20/55/25. Work/mid/premium. Let's also not forget about manufacturers learning during the "shut down" that if they withhold inventory that they can charge full price which put an end to 10k off during month whatever. And dealers in my area at least still don't have much inventory even though I can go to one of several locations and see thousands of trucks as far as the eye can see
Talking about packaging options. My wife and I recently bought a 2023 Kia Sportage and we wanted the automatic rear truck door. In order to get that option we needed to get the ex premium model which is one step below the top level x-line limited. We got alot of features we didn't need just to get that one. Now we are spoiled and probably won't ever want cloth seats again lol
Everything cost more today. Look at what interest rates are now, inflation, fuel prices, food prices, energy prices. Everything. Its not just trucks. Its not like if you want just a basic truck you can't still buy a base to mid trim level nobody if forcing you into that Denali Utlimate, Limited, Platinum whatever. I wouldn't want to be looking at houses now lol. With how crazy interest rates have got and housing prices. I know around here houses are double or so what they were a few years ago. Even run down shacks cost a fortune. I know I have a piece of land just short of 10 acres I had appraised at $325k like 6 years ago. I got a letter in the mail from somebody offering me $550k for it last summer and prices have even went up from what they were then. His $550k offer was a bit light to begin with but I wasn't selling anyway. I don't exactly need the money. Only paid $25k for the land but that was 40 years ago
Let me start with the fact that I love your channel and watch it as often as I can, but I'm sorry, these reasons do not hold water. It's no coincidence that these prices have stayed the same since the end of the pandemic. Manufacturers noticed that people were willing to buy trucks at ridiculous prices during the pandemic and have decided to keep prices at a high level because a certain amount of people will still buy them.
Don't always blame the consumer. Manufacturers are not equipping their trucks with basic features; causing the consumer to have to go with the higher trim levels.
Explain to me this. Why can I not buy a simple truck with a physical key ignition, manual transmission with a manual emergency break, No cruise control, no fancy Infotainment center. The stock headlights are fine as long as you are not speeding. For a reasonable price?
Nobody makes manual trucks anymore unless you are buying mid size. I think you can still get a manual Tacoma. I am pretty sure its mandated cars have backup cams now so all are going to have an infotainment screen. Plenty still have an actual key. Pretty sure the base GM trucks still do just the higher trim levels are push button. Most all the base trucks don't have the new fancy LED lights.
This is why I'll never buy a truck newer than my 2015 Silverado. I already did the DOD delete kit, so she's good for the foreseeable future. The one exception would be if my business required a heavy duty diesel in the future, and it was must to keep up with material supply & customer orders.
I had to buy a new truck last Christmas and it was EXTREMELY HARD to find a reasonable vehicle for a good price. I wanted a Diesel 1 ton. That wasn’t gonna happen; so I changed to a Diesel 3/4 ton. Well… That also wasn’t an option unless I wanted 300,000 miles. So I ended up with a vehicle that even 5 years ago… I would have NEVER even considered. I ended up with a Nissan Titan XD with the Cummins V8 and it definitely does what I need it to. But it’s not as comfortable as a Ford or Chevy. It’s about 25% less power and you can definitely tell when towing with it. However, it’s been a good truck so far and as I already mentioned. It absolutely does everything I need a truck to do. It plows my driveway, gets me to and from work, makes trips to the home center and will pull a full size skid steer. Also I’d like to point out that with prices what they are. Rebates and sales are worthless. $3,000 off a $90,000 sticker price is more of an insult than a deal. Sadly I believe that used truck prices are going to keep going up as the more new prices go up. The less of the population can either justify it. Or even flat out afford them… So that puts exponentially more demand on the used market…
Fine, but what is the actual cost difference between a 3.5l raptor engine and the supercharged v8. It sure isn't more than a couple thousand dollars, even if it is a 5k difference, a 30k difference for trim levels is absurd.
One of the things that gets me is the rims. Like my new truck comes stock with 22 inch rims but if I wanted a different set of 22s since they have like 5 or 6 different styles you could order its like $3500 extra. Why would it be that much lol. I could see them charging something but for $3500 I should get both sets of rims. The ones I want and the ones it was supposed to come with.
Vehicles in general are way more complex now than they were in the 60’s and 70’s. I could rebuild a SB Chevy with my eyes closed, but today’s engines you need a 2 year technology degree to go near them!
Don't agree with the hybrid part. There is only one other major component in them. Either an ecvt or a clutch mg motor. Of course the battery is some cost but consider an n/A engine it's no more complicated than adding a turbo from an engineering perspective
Whatever the Cost of the Need is going to be paid... If I have to pay for a need it might as well come with some Creature Comforts too. Thats why I follow TFL. You guys always tell it like it is based on the facts not the brochures.
I remember pre covid it wouldn't be uncommon to see pickup trucks on sale with $10,000.00 with all incentives ( rebates,brand loyalty, dealer and factory rebates etc). That helped decide whether to buy or not buy. All these numbers Andre is throwing up are retail prices. Does anyone really think auto manufacturers are paying that price for a LED lighting?
The insurance on my 2008 honda, driven 3,000 miles a year, went from $600 two years ago, to $1,800 for 2024. When I asked my agent why the price keeps going up as my car gets older, he said “It’s not your car doing it, it’s all the assholes paying $80,000 for pickup trucks. If you hit one of them, it costs us a fortune.” So to all you $80k pickup owners - Fa Que!
It seems to me that much of what is on your list is the same for all cars( more technology, more regulations, etc). The only difference is that trucks have always been the "cash cow" for manufacturers.
Always felt like manufacturer’s double the price of what a vehicle costs to make . If you buy an 80k truck , they are probably making a 40k profit. They wouldn’t survive with a 5k or 10k profit for each vehicle.
I have no proof, but I believe that the car manufacturers are charging artificially high prices for gas vehicles in order to pay for EV R&D and subsidize payment for the new infrastructure. The customer is being forced by government and industry to underwrite the EV as the gas replacement. It is not consumer demand that is paying for EV production.
Alternative title for this video: top 10 reasons to keep your old truck.
I was looking for this comment!
Top comment!!!!!
Alternative title: Don't vote for those that make laws today in the name of safety.
Amen
spot on!
Bought a 2011 F150 Ecoboost extended cab for $27,000 out the door in the summer of 2011. Paid off in 2014, so now approaching a decade with no payments and 230,000 miles on the clock. With these insane prices it will continue to be daily driven for another 230,000 miles.
Ya @ Current Prices, a Engine Change +++ Pans Out as MUCH SMARTER.
If you make it to 460k miles on an eco boost you better make a video for us! Lol
@@Jay-bw3fl I am aware of several Ecoboost F150's and Expedition's that are in that ballpark already. But, just FYI, that's 35000 miles a year even for an early 2011 model year build. I feel like there are far better vehicles to be putting that many miles on in that amount of time, like a diesel, so I wouldn't expect to many. it will be years before we start seeing a lot of F150s north of 300k.
Agree'd. I bought a 2014 Lariat Supercrew 4x4 with virtually every option in early 2015 for ~$46k OTD. Same truck now, 8.5 years later, would be $70k. You can't even get into a supercrew 4x4 with the 3.5L of any trim for $46k now since they are not discounted heavily yet, but I think we will start to see that soon. The cheapest XL crew cab within 100 miles of me is listed at $47k before taxes.
I have a 2012 with a 5.0 and I agree. I refuse to pay what they are charging for trucks today. I take care of my stuff. My truck still looks good, and runs good. I'll buy a low milage used truck before I ever reward Ford, GM or Ram by buying a new truck from them.
Prices are outrageous because people keep paying those outrageous prices. If enough people stop paying those higher prices they will come down or at least level off.
Seems like people are slowing down. Dealer lots are flooded where I'm at
They already are stopping. I am starting to see somewhat decent discounts on F150's where I am and Ford just had to take 10k off the MSRP of the Lightning.
Reason number 1: people still buy the trucks
Reason number 2: straight up greedy dealers and manufacturers.
It’s not people buying the trucks is businesses! They can write it off at the end of the year.
Greedy? 😆 You want them to give them away for free?! They're in business to make money.
@@hardtarget2359 So the taxpayer is paying for them.
Talked to a builder in upper midwest who has used the Amish for labor. Pre Covid they were about 20/hr...now they are 38/hr. Inflation is very real in labor costs.
For sure..
Tell him to look into half way houses..
I bought my first pickup truck 3 years ago. It is a 97 F150. Love the truck. Cost me $4500 with 134K miles. Have invested less than 1K so far on repairs. Love the truck and will never pay $60K for a new truck.
Very similar, I have a 02 f150 with 270,000 miles. 2,500 with perfect interior and less that 1k in repairs aswell
We aren’t talking about trucks you buy for once a month use but more of a daily driver.
Here in SC we went to look at the new Toyota Tacoma Trail at the dealership and they wanted 66k...The website for toyota listed it for 44k fully loaded.
I walked out saying no damn way
My friend went looked at the military green tundra it was marked up 82k
Maybe this the reason Japan toyota ceo said they offer buy direct cutting out the dealerships
the lousy part about that is in certain states you can do that , in most states you can't from old federal laws back in the day passed under the fair competition act if memory serves me correctly ,i was in the industry for a number years before i left to do my own business, for Toyota to do this would a handful of years and probably a few billion in legal fees , worse yet 2 of the northeastern states tried to have the right to repair law taken away from consumers for their vehicles long as were in the new vehicle warranty, most are 3 years and if you happen to extend your factory warranty ,well that would have meant 5 or 6 years, that could make you go broke,
A smart person would hold onto their vehicle if possible. Getting rid of a 4-5 year old vehicle is a waste of money
Sounds like the dealerships haven’t learned their lesson.
What about the fact that manufacturers are sending fewer trucks to dealers to allow them to control the supply and demand just sayin
@@302Mustang13depends on what kinda milage you do a year to be honest here in texas we average about 30-36k a year 5 years of that is what 150-180k while for some people that no big deal but most people would have to pay a shop to do even the minor repairs so
I feel like a big crash is coming for new trucks, and EVs for that matter. This isn't sustainable.
@@TheRealBrownShady yeah it's just GM"s fault. All 3 took money. Ford most recently.
Fords wasn't needed to keep the lights on like gm and Chrysler
@@MalphMaisy actually, ford was in worse shape than gm and chrysler. They took out loans while cash was available. They even mortgaged their iconic blue oval. By the time gm and chrysler needed loans that well dried up.
@@maxhenry1977point is Ford wasn't bailed out by the Federally
@@MalphMaisy point is they were in worse shape than gm and chrysler. Point is they were lucky credit was available when they needed it. Point is if it wasn’t for lucky timing they would’ve needed a bailout too.
Roman mentioned it inside of the last minute. "Rebates". My 3 year old F150 came with substantial mfg to dealer rebates and other incentives, and that didn't include what I could negotiate with the dealer. For the last couple of years there haven't been any rebates and dealers, rather than negotiating the price, were asking substantial ADM. My wife put off her recent Toyota Rav4 purchase for TWO YEARS. She ended up paying full MSRP, while the dealer across town wanted an additional $9300 and didn't seen interested in negotiating. The claim was "we're selling every one right off the truck at these prices".
So glad to see this video. My one worry about UA-cam vehicle reviews is that they focus on what’s better without regard to price.
Times are changing. The people who would pay whatever it costs to get a bigger screen or faster engine have already bought. People who pay cash or actually pay things off, are money constrained, or just don’t want to be taken advantage of are the new audience.
Only expensive because people have been willing to pay the price, specially those that buy them just to look big and never actually use the truck for anything truck related.
I have to drive my 03 until the wheels fall off due to new prices. They are tools for me and I can't justify that price knowing it's going to get scratches and dents from work.
Very true and not one scratch on them.
In other news, CEO pay has
skyrocketed 1,460% since 1978,
while typical worker pay grew by
just 18% they just need to stop ripping us off. While $7.25 is minimum wage
Those CEOs deserve their ever growing piece of the pie. It's only because of their family and elite business school connections that our paychecks get to have their signature on them.
Their pay increases may have been devaluing our paychecks faster than overall inflation over the past 3 decades, but it just means we need to work 26 hours a day to make the same as our parents working 14. We have to do our part.
Are the typical workers responsible if the company goes under or faces a major lawsuit? How much debt and risk are the typical workers taking? How many typical workers have the education of CEOs?
That's misleading.
Since 1978, most people aren't at a working wage anymore, and they're certainly not at minimum wage. Today, most people have other sources of income, or they have salaries and benefits that are apart of a combined income. In 1978, the average household income was around $15,000. Today, it's more around $88,000 per single income houses and well over $100,000 for combined income households. It's probably increased about 500%, which is staggering.
Your increase in CEO pay is also misleading. Most CEO pay is not salary or base pay, its compensation packages that includes various benefits and bonuses that are often tied to the growth of the company. Their actual take home is probably less than inflation, because that's prefered by the boards.
For example. Thomas Murphy, CEO of GM in 1978, had a salary of $600,000/year. Today, Mary Barra makes $2.1 million/year. That's a take home increase of only 250%, not 1,460%%, which is less than typical wage increase for factory workers at GM and less than the general income increase for all workers. Now, Mary's compensation is large, but that's because the company demands results, and they'll pay her depending on the results she delivers.
With all that said, CEO pay isn't at all the reason for prices increasing. Even if you took every penny from Mary's salary, it still wouldn't even lower the cost of truck by 1%! She could become a slave to the company, being paid nothing, and you'd still be paying $100,000 for a Denali. CEO pay has little to do with why trucks cost so much.
While the CEO in my neighborhood at the McDonald's is making buku money. They still can't afford to hire employees to work. Almost every day they have to close early because the staff is all called out. So I guess that $40 a day isn't doing much to keep the business open but the CEO making $100,000 a day so smart.
@@Tegridynews Local McDonald's don't have CEOs, they have owners and managers. And I guarantee the "owner" is not making $100,000 a day. Try again
Top 10 reasons are greed to the tenth level.
The gross amount of money spent on potential fuel savings will never be recouped by the actual money saved in fuel costs saved. They're wasting money on the pursuit for better fuel efficiency but they're padding all the supplier and their own pockets. Which is the real bottom line.
People sometimes lose focus on one prime reason to drive more efficient vehicles - to try and reduce carbon and do in small part and I mean small.. but try to do something about the global warming / climate change. I will pay a bit more to do my part It's not much but I'll do what I can.
@@mikesawyer1336🤡
If you save up all the money not spend on fuel you could pay for a new battery in about 6 years, when it’s depleted!
Yes, I did a video showing it will take almost 2 years of fuel savings to recover the extra $1500 it now costs to upgrade to a Maverick hybrid version.
@@mikesawyer1336yes, there's absolutely nothing like padding the cost of vehicles toa pay for clean air when major pollutants like China and India are crushing anything America does to improve the air. Oh, and I don't buy into anything that the Globalists want to dictate, nor should any American. We're not international slaves or serfs.
I've seen videos of people saying that no one wants to buy trucks because they are getting really expensive and that trucks are not selling, and the prices are going down. And now with this video, I found out the prices are going up again. I just saw used trucks 2019 in particular with well over 100k miles and they are asking $40k for a truck like that.
Why? OEMs and their dealers will charge what idiots are willing to pay. There is no truck worth more that $50k and that’s pushing it.
Just wanted to tell TFL this is probably my favorite channel on UA-cam to watch, from the testing to drag racing to explaining why the prices have gotten out of hand. Thanks for all ya'll do.
I like my 2008 F150. It has a radio & A/C "yes radio not stereo" & that's it for luxury. No cruse, no power windows, no power door locks, no automatic transmission, just a plain & simple work truck that will keep me cool on the hottest days, and that's all I need.
Stop buying them.
Most Americans can't stop, not until they are claiming bankruptcy and getting their truck repoed.
This is crazy! My 08 and 09 are just a useful, and good-looking as they were when I bought them. I cannot justify buying a truck that cost almost half as much as my house.
I love my 2022 Ford Powerboost XL. I ordered it the way I wanted it and cut a lot of the fat. I was inspired by Andre’s truck. Thank you guys for keeping it real.
Same here
I graduated high school in 1995, and when I compare my 2015 Mustang gt & 2020 F250 which I bought both habrand new and adjust for inflation to 1995 prices, my mustang was cheaper in 2015, than it was in 1995, and the trim level I have on my F250 didn't exist back then, but the closest I could get in only $ 1200 cheaper in 1995 dollars. I also looked at my household income in 1995 dollars and that of the lowest paid people at my company (interns) in 1995 dollars, and we're all paid a bit more today than we would have been for the same job in 1995. (Not sure if interns even got paid back then). I get that as a number is pretty high today, but in buying power is barely moved.
I'm fine with my 2021 Jeep Gladiator (Rubicon) which was "overpriced" (some said) back then...but look at their prices now. Glad I got mine when I did.
Now I'm just waiting for HOUSE prices AND the mortgage interest rate (more important really) to drop so I can buy a new house. Already got my new (but "overpriced") truck. ;-)
-- BR
Roman seems exhausted. Someone give this man a redbull. Hope all is well. Best wishes to Nathan, haven’t seen him in a while.
If he's like me, the redbull won't save him. Toss the man a couple powerades!
He's fine, he just has permanent 'bed-head' 😄
Quit buying trucks outfitted like rolls royce's, and they'll start producing more reasonably priced ones. As long as all these people with more money than sense buy them, they'll keep making them and stocking the high end to make the bigger margin.
But i just want a sunroof
I work with plastic injection molds and the amount of complexity and over engineering they’re putting into parts that nobody even sees or cares about is crazy
Older used “low tech” trucks will be the way to go for the indefinite future.
So we will basically be Cuba.
@@doublebackagain4311 Sure. Exactly the same.
The number one reason prices are so high is that people are willing to pay.
They're getting so expensive they're making my older pickup trucks worth more.
went to a toyota dealership in my town for a new 4runner trd pro. $58,000ish base and they marked it up $10,000ish and were trying to get me to go for it at $68,000 and some change. their reasoning: we need to mark it up so someone doesn’t buy it from us, take it to a different state and sell it for more than they bought it for. so i went to a different toyota dealer and got an equally equipped 4runner trd pro for $8,000 cheaper, 57,000ish with only a $3,000 mark up, making the total $60,000ish. still an insane price but it’s my dream truck and i wanted to get the v6 before toyota makes the 4runner a v4 turbo pos.
Okay the dealer i don't think is following manufacturer policy. Toyota has cracked down on this, but the dealer is right in a way.
Toyota supplies inventory in certain areas and its allocated. What was happening were people (other businesses) was buying up the cars at msrp and shipping them elsewhere to be sold higher.
This obviously upset local people as the inventory would be wiped out. The dealers responded by raising prices to prevent the lot from being sold out and having the cars marked up again and sold elsewhere. From toyotas perspective supplying various dealers and regionals markets they were getting messed up as well as suddenly a region would be wiped of stock as it went to another. Customers walking on a lot would see hardly any inventory. Big problem, toyota not happy. Dealer not happy (transferred cars they dont make service $ on plus locals get upset).
Far as i know toyota decided a solution. When you buy a vehicle (i just did) they ask you to sign a legal document saying within the first year the dealer gets first priority in buying the vehicle back from you. If you sign the paper, you get msrp or maybe below. Toyota Corp doesn't want the vehicles over msrp. It messes them up and their data and market. They want dealers selling at least at msrp. They also dont want someone buying out a lot and moving the vehicles for resale in another region. That messes up inventory control. So they came out with this paper. Dealers should be doing this now. Offer the contract, guarantee no resale in a year unless back to the dealer. You get no markup.
Ask the dealer you talked to about this. The dealer is right, but also per toyota they need to be offering the year contract and selling not above msrp
@@itsallminor6133 when i go in to sign the final paperwork i will ask about that contract option, thanks for the heads up. hopefully it works out for me
@@donnyd8890show them This if need be. Maybe call toyota. I ended up about $350 under msrp and they threw in a tonneau cover for the truck. Oh never mind you already bought
Never pay markup
$100k pickups are not sustainable in the market place. Even business who can write off depreciation will eventually come up against a budget that won't afford that. People stop buying these trucks at these prices. Piles of inventory will force someone to adjust their prices to maintain market share.
Greed of corporate executives
We had a ZR2 in our inventory for over 90 days before we finally sold it, and we weren't asking 1 penny over MSRP. Our policy is we don't sell anything for more than MSRP.
And a bear doesn’t ship in the woods either
What dealer?
Birchwood Chevrolet in Cavalier, ND. We have a 2024 ZR2 in Slate Gray inbound that we won't be charging a penny over MSRP, either.@@arberdemiri
You should be selling at invoice price and still make money. MSRP is a joke.
Toyota has proven that you don’t need to be new or innovative to keep charging idiots mark up on 10+ year old products.
One way to save money is to buy “less truck” with the same capability. What I mean by that is that, as you say, today’s trucks are much more capable. So, you can buy a mid-sized truck that has the capability (payload, towing) of a “full-sized” truck of 20 years ago.
My Jeep is a 2004. My pickup is a 2020. I just put in LED head lights in both this month. $135.00. The light bulbs. I love them. Huge difference. They were worth every penny. Made my night driving way safer.
The other crappy thing too, is the manufacturers may list prices starting at 37k for a base model, but dealerships don't actually stock them. Cheapest tundra at the dealer near me is 55k. Ridgeline 50k. Even Ford's don't have base models. Dirty tricks.
I have a '17 330i, and had a '04 Wrangler LJ, and was thinking earlier this year about selling both to fund the purchase of a 2020 or 2021 Silverado RST. After seeing the prices, I sold the Wrangler, bought an '07 Avalanche with low miles, and couldn't be happier. It's tough to justify spending so much on a truck for most of us that only need them for light towing and trips to and from the hardware store.
Smart decision.
Right now it doesn't make any sense to me to buy a 1-2 year old used truck/SUV. They want nearly the same as a new one. I am a dealer and you wouldn't believe what we have to pay at auctions. Why I haven't been buying much the last few years. Auctions don't have nearly as many cars and its mostly just junk. Then the handful of stuff you might actually want is just insane. There was a 2021 Tahoe I was interested in last sale I went to. It was the offroad model can't think of what the trim is the ones you see with the red tow hooks. It was bid up to $65k. Pretty sure you can get one brand new for that kind of money. Imagine if you looked you could probably find one new for $5k more and this is a dealer only sale so the guy that bought that Tahoe is going to want to make something so he is probably going to ask $70k for it. Most all I have bought the last few years has been from private sales or bank repos. The repos are getting ridiculous now too. More people are bidding on them than ever so I haven't really even bought many of those lately. I know I was high bidder on a lot of them then the bank calls me telling me I didn't meet their reserve and offer me whatever I was bidding on for a few grand more then I bid and I normally always just say no and it will get auctioned off again. Sometimes I get it the 2nd or 3rd time around for less then what I bid the first time since they are never going to get what they want. Those repos are always pigged out, always need oil changes, brakes, tires, batteries, almost always have the check engine light on. I have bought some only to find out they are blown up or need trannies since you can't drive them or anything before bidding.
As long as middle classes are willing to finance $70k+ for a vehicle, the price will keep going up. The rich will always have what they want but there are fewer of them.
Isn’t it ironic that for all the reasons stated in this video for the exorbitant prices , many people have been priced out of the market for new cars , and are hanging on to ten, twenty , even 30 year old vehicles because all these new whizz bang vehicles with the safety gear are now unobtainable to the average person.
My take on fully loaded vs base level: Every one of the 3 cars I have ever bought new were base level. I 4 season daily drove two of those for over ten years each. One 11 years, the other 17, and I'm currently in 6 years for the 3rd. I buy base because there are fewer gadgets to break. As a result the first two were extremely reliable and the 3rd is doing great. (Knock on wood.) What I've noticed is that even the base trim levels have more features as standard. with my most recent car being what would have been high luxury compared to the first. I think people are WAY too far into the false idea that they MUST get x or y feature. Brainwashed consumerism. I love my simple(r) cars.
2:15 The Raptor R and Ram TRX are specialty vehicles so I understand the high price. But base model trucks for work I don’t get it.
Manufacturers/Dealers are taking advantage of the folks that are forking over their hard earned money for vehicles that are priced through the roof. If consumers gave their heads a good shake and stopped buying at these ridiculous prices, the manufacturers and dealers would smarten the hell up and lower prices. Here in Canada I've seen prices for most trucks go up by around $15-20k since 2020. That's beyond nridiculous, but what's even more ridiculous is the fact that consumers are still buying at the outragous prices. Smdh.
My local ford dealers have lariat powerboosts for 90k Canadian. Regular xlt's 65k Can. Crazy prices.
Just built out a Lariat Powerboost because I'm in need of a new vehicle and yeah.. optioned just the way I wanted it brought it up to $92k Cad. The only "good" thing right now at least compared to say Toyota, is Fords interest rates are like 3.5% compared to 7-9%
Back in 2017 picked up a new F150 XLT 5.0 4wd Supercab 8’ box with just a backup camera and no driver assist nonsense for $47k CAD, at same dealer now for a 2023 XLT is $75k.
Let’s not forget all the automotive reviewers/writers complaining that so-and-so manufacturer doesn’t have a large enough screen or enough off-road tech. But not you guys, of course.
Some years ago Ford marketing invented the term-
'As Much as the Market Will Bear'
!
Yep that's capitalism. Consequently if you're not working as much as a human can bear then you're uncompetitive.
I think that line of affordability for what you get was somewhere around my 2013 Ram 1500. $15k when it was 5 years old
I'm not sure how you would cover something like this, but upgrading a used vehicle can save you lots of money. I bought a 2004 Toyota land cruiser for 15000, I put 30000 (and still adding cool stuff) worth of upgrades and off road (bumpers, roof rack, extra fuel tank, winches, etc) to it as well as an interior restoration. Now I have a 45000 dollar vehicle (that cost 61000 new in 2004) that will last the rest of my life and is built EXACTLY the way I want it, not the way the manufacturer wants it. Granted, milage sucks, and it doesnt have a computer monitor in it but it doesn't have thousands of components that will break and need fixing. And If I had to guess, my Toyota Land Cruiser will out last them all.
Just got an old 7.3 Powerstroke for a reason. Old tractor trucks FTW!
My 2012 F250 King Ranch 6.7 diesel that I bought used was top of the line for that year and msrp was $62K. Now an equivalent top of the line diesel pickup is now pushing $100K. Granted, there is a lot of new tech, gadgets, creature comforts being put into newer trucks but not 40K worth of it. F that. Bring back fairly priced vehicles.
8:10 the same amount of plexiglass in two packs of replacement welding helmet lenses as one of those super duty head lights... one of the two was $34, $16 when on sale. just because of its shape and use.
I like how you guys separated out the timeline. Would be great to do in other videos especially the long podcast ones. Thanks for all the info!
There's another factor as well: The world is getting richer and wants a Western/US lifestyle, and more wealthy, foreign countries now suddenly want American trucks. Australia, China, Saudi Arabia and others are buying trucks and they want US trucks and that means they compete with US consumers to get to buy the same trucks from the same manufacturers and from the same factory. And as long as these trucks sell well, the manufacturers can keep increasing the price. Other countries also get richer, such as India, which means more demand and higher prices for raw materials that go into making trucks, such as iron ore for steel that goes into making the frame or oil price for rubber and plastics.
I am happy with a manual transmission option, but it’s getting harder to find that option. And the manufacturers don’t offer manuals in the higher performance models.
No new truck except the Tacoma has offered a manual in the last 15 years
@@robertbowman9108gladiator
Just go outside USA
I just bought a 2018 Ram 2500 4x4 Big Horn with the crew cab and the Cummins diesel. I paid just over $40k for it with 61k miles and the new ones are like $80k! Guess I'll be keeping mine for a long time, God willing
It started in Louisiana after the 2020 hurricanes, the prices shot up, but at the time I drove to Texas, Arkansas and Mississippi and the prices were what they originally were before the hurricanes, so were the lumber prices. I rode along with a friend last year who knows the owner of multiple dealerships about an hour away, in Louisiana, and the truck he wanted was listed at almost 65k, he got the fully loaded 4x4, four door silverado for 1k over the price the dealer paid for the truck, 38k and he drove it home, no trade in, just final price. He asked the owner why are prices like this, the owner said, "after the hurricanes we started charging 50k to 70k over msrp because we seen the need for trucks after the hurricanes destroyed everything, then the other dealerships around the country seen the profits we were making and followed the mark up, and as long as people are going to hand me this money, I'm going to the bank with a large smile and no one can stop me" it's called gouging and is supposed to be illegal, but they're getting away with it. Don't believe me, I don't care, I was there, I heard this dealership owner say this and watched the paperwork signed on a brand new truck that was listed for 65k purchased for 38k.
I've bought my last truck for awhile prices and markup have gotten too high.
$16,000 in rebates and dealer participation in 2019 for my F150 XLT Sport FX4 super-crew. Now the same truck is $10,000 more MSRP and little to no rebates or dealer participation. I won’t pay it, but others will. Paid $38,000 for my truck brand new. Can’t buy anything close to that now.
Manufacturers are training us to order cars. They used to want to put keys in your hand that day because the same truck was right down the street
Yes. Dealers dont like it. But manufacturers want more control of THEIR product
Everything you said makes sense, even though I don't like it. I want to say my 2021 Ram 1500 Laramie MSRP went up around $5000 in 2022 for the same spec truck. Same engine, trans, options, ect. Only justification I can think of is the supply chain shortage. Glad I got mine when I did though.
I was looking at a 2022 that was still on the dealer lot. They were at 4 grand under MSRP and would not budge a penny on the price. Every week I sent them an email with my offer and they sent me a link back to other trucks. Someone bought it for what they were asking a couple of days ago. I think I will be looking for a used truck.
Great review!
The safety aspect cannot be overstated here... the way the safety tests are passed is by making the cars come apart when they are hit. This means they basically aren't repairable and it they are more complicated to manufacture.
I got a 2024 Silverado 3500 gas on order, never though I would be buying a $67k truck but here we are
Something I noticed: dealers tell you they will buy your truck based on KBB trade in values...when you arrive the dealer uses NADA, and regardless how clean and equipment is installed in your truck, they will give you "rough" trade value.
Using NADA entering your VIN will give you the base model level of your truck (base XLT, LARIAT, LIMITED, etc.) The options are thrown out the equation.
When you use KBB and enter ALL the features installed in your truck, even the "rough" trade-in value is about $8k above the NADA values.
Then, the dealer uses all those features to market and sell your truck.
Example: I took my 2019 F250 xlt premium, fx4, 6.2L (30k mls) to a local dealer. My KBB research showed a trade-in value of $47.5 - 49.8k...the dealer used NADA and it shows $39.9k "rough" trade on a clean, mint, like-new condition truck. Of course I walked...they had a 2019 XL with, plain-jane, 6.2L for sale @ $49k...my guess was, they will highlight all the features on my truck and price it around $54k, which was $2k above private sale value!
Dealers are reaping us off in any way, shape and form.
Also, did you know that if you trade in, they will take your tax savings for themselves? Oh yes, they already have a $3k mark up on traded calculated in, as soon as you say "trade".
There is no question trucks (and cars in general) have more features and are more luxurious. That said, many people would like to get a basic extended or crew cab truck 4X4 without all of the extra bells and whistles.
Hopefully it's all governed by a free market system - if/when excess pricing causes sales to fall off, manufacturers will be forced to trim it back one way or another. Manufacturers are also slightly behind consumers wants/needs, as these change, they must follow suit, it's all driven by the almighty dollar. Consumers as a group need to realize the power that they have - refuse to pay dealers' greed factor markups, let stock languish on their lots unsold and they will be forced to take $'s out of the equation.
I don’t know if this is new, but sharing the screen is awesome.
I bought a 21 ford f150 limited 3.5 powerboost hybrid fully loaded with nothing deleted for 72k ish in 2022 with 14k miles. Per kbb and other data, it was actually a little cheaper than book value. Now days these new limited f150 has stuff deleted and still sale for 80-90k with is ridiculous.
Everything is going up, and will always do so. Higher labor cost, higher materials costs, and more tech at all trim levels (10 air bags cost more than 2, etc.). About all we can hope for is the death of the market adjustments (dealer over msrp) and bring back the good ole days of rebates.
I can't buy it without proof (I need to see the books and cross verify with all the suppliers). I had a 2019 F-150 with a generous $12,000 rebate. Now...The same (more or less) pickup goes for about $59,000 with maybe a $2,000 rebate. It has shared development costs of most of the electronics with all other Ford vehicles. It shares the transmission with GM. It has colossal sales. The trailer hitch (stand alone) now goes for $315 vs. $150 in 2019. Just plain old steel. Most of the price increase is due to high markups and hardly and incentives. You're not getting that much more now than in 2019, but the asking price is tremendously more.
its 100% greed
It’s not greed if people are willingly paying these prices. If they sit on the lot, they’ll have to drop the price
In 2008 I purchased a Crewcab Silverado LT for $22K ($12K off the sticker price).
Does not add up. Truck prices are paying for losses on electrification fiascos
Our percentages are roughly 20/55/25. Work/mid/premium. Let's also not forget about manufacturers learning during the "shut down" that if they withhold inventory that they can charge full price which put an end to 10k off during month whatever. And dealers in my area at least still don't have much inventory even though I can go to one of several locations and see thousands of trucks as far as the eye can see
Talking about packaging options. My wife and I recently bought a 2023 Kia Sportage and we wanted the automatic rear truck door. In order to get that option we needed to get the ex premium model which is one step below the top level x-line limited. We got alot of features we didn't need just to get that one. Now we are spoiled and probably won't ever want cloth seats again lol
Your the reason they do it. You literally saw the trap and kept going and thier only back lash is you complaining while they make 5k
@kevinupton900 wasn't complaining. Just commenting on what they are talking about in the video. How about keeping your ignorant comments to yourself.
You forgot No 0 - Dealer markup
Everything cost more today. Look at what interest rates are now, inflation, fuel prices, food prices, energy prices. Everything. Its not just trucks. Its not like if you want just a basic truck you can't still buy a base to mid trim level nobody if forcing you into that Denali Utlimate, Limited, Platinum whatever. I wouldn't want to be looking at houses now lol. With how crazy interest rates have got and housing prices. I know around here houses are double or so what they were a few years ago. Even run down shacks cost a fortune. I know I have a piece of land just short of 10 acres I had appraised at $325k like 6 years ago. I got a letter in the mail from somebody offering me $550k for it last summer and prices have even went up from what they were then. His $550k offer was a bit light to begin with but I wasn't selling anyway. I don't exactly need the money. Only paid $25k for the land but that was 40 years ago
Let me start with the fact that I love your channel and watch it as often as I can, but I'm sorry, these reasons do not hold water. It's no coincidence that these prices have stayed the same since the end of the pandemic. Manufacturers noticed that people were willing to buy trucks at ridiculous prices during the pandemic and have decided to keep prices at a high level because a certain amount of people will still buy them.
Don't always blame the consumer. Manufacturers are not equipping their trucks with basic features; causing the consumer to have to go with the higher trim levels.
Explain to me this. Why can I not buy a simple truck with a physical key ignition, manual transmission with a manual emergency break, No cruise control, no fancy Infotainment center.
The stock headlights are fine as long as you are not speeding.
For a reasonable price?
Nobody makes manual trucks anymore unless you are buying mid size. I think you can still get a manual Tacoma. I am pretty sure its mandated cars have backup cams now so all are going to have an infotainment screen. Plenty still have an actual key. Pretty sure the base GM trucks still do just the higher trim levels are push button. Most all the base trucks don't have the new fancy LED lights.
This is why I'll never buy a truck newer than my 2015 Silverado. I already did the DOD delete kit, so she's good for the foreseeable future. The one exception would be if my business required a heavy duty diesel in the future, and it was must to keep up with material supply & customer orders.
DOD?.. whats that? Fuel management? Makes no difference. Lifters still prone to fail.
We laugh at the pricing but on a serious point I need a new truck and I can’t justify it It’s sad you guys are great
I had to buy a new truck last Christmas and it was EXTREMELY HARD to find a reasonable vehicle for a good price. I wanted a Diesel 1 ton. That wasn’t gonna happen; so I changed to a Diesel 3/4 ton. Well… That also wasn’t an option unless I wanted 300,000 miles.
So I ended up with a vehicle that even 5 years ago… I would have NEVER even considered. I ended up with a Nissan Titan XD with the Cummins V8 and it definitely does what I need it to. But it’s not as comfortable as a Ford or Chevy. It’s about 25% less power and you can definitely tell when towing with it. However, it’s been a good truck so far and as I already mentioned. It absolutely does everything I need a truck to do. It plows my driveway, gets me to and from work, makes trips to the home center and will pull a full size skid steer.
Also I’d like to point out that with prices what they are. Rebates and sales are worthless. $3,000 off a $90,000 sticker price is more of an insult than a deal. Sadly I believe that used truck prices are going to keep going up as the more new prices go up. The less of the population can either justify it. Or even flat out afford them… So that puts exponentially more demand on the used market…
3K insult was spot on! Should be more like 10K!
Fine, but what is the actual cost difference between a 3.5l raptor engine and the supercharged v8. It sure isn't more than a couple thousand dollars, even if it is a 5k difference, a 30k difference for trim levels is absurd.
It's 200 horsepower
But stickers are Expensive!
One of the things that gets me is the rims. Like my new truck comes stock with 22 inch rims but if I wanted a different set of 22s since they have like 5 or 6 different styles you could order its like $3500 extra. Why would it be that much lol. I could see them charging something but for $3500 I should get both sets of rims. The ones I want and the ones it was supposed to come with.
Vehicles in general are way more complex now than they were in the 60’s and 70’s. I could rebuild a SB Chevy with my eyes closed, but today’s engines you need a 2 year technology degree to go near them!
That option packaging is exactly Ike Congress passing laws.
Funny you talked about "Self driving". I just bought a 2004 Ranger just to have something to tinker with and teach my kids how to drive a stick shift.
Things are changing! I picked up a Denali thousands below sticker with 2.9% over 5 years and I didn’t have to work for it!
#1 CEO's want more salary. Wage gap between top 10% and average worker is so crazy apart. Old CEO's salary was never that far apart. Shame on them
I bought my 2021 Ranger Lariat SuperCrew FX4 in Jan 2022. I paid friggin MRSP around 42k but at 0.9% for 60mos.
Would love a new chevy 2500hd but with prices they can rot for all i care.
Don't agree with the hybrid part. There is only one other major component in them. Either an ecvt or a clutch mg motor. Of course the battery is some cost but consider an n/A engine it's no more complicated than adding a turbo from an engineering perspective
Excellent presentation. Final result: The basic consumer is their own worst enemy.
Whatever the Cost of the Need is going to be paid... If I have to pay for a need it might as well come with some Creature Comforts too. Thats why I follow TFL. You guys always tell it like it is based on the facts not the brochures.
I remember pre covid it wouldn't be uncommon to see pickup trucks on sale with $10,000.00 with all incentives ( rebates,brand loyalty, dealer and factory rebates etc). That helped decide whether to buy or not buy.
All these numbers Andre is throwing up are retail prices. Does anyone really think auto manufacturers are paying that price for a LED lighting?
Bravo, gentlemen.
The insurance on my 2008 honda, driven 3,000 miles a year, went from $600 two years ago, to $1,800 for 2024. When I asked my agent why the price keeps going up as my car gets older, he said “It’s not your car doing it, it’s all the assholes paying $80,000 for pickup trucks. If you hit one of them, it costs us a fortune.” So to all you $80k pickup owners - Fa Que!
My problem was finding a basic truck. I wanted a 3/4 ton work truck, you couldn't find them. Finally found one and had to jump on it.
It seems to me that much of what is on your list is the same for all cars( more technology, more regulations, etc). The only difference is that trucks have always been the "cash cow" for manufacturers.
Always felt like manufacturer’s double the price of what a vehicle costs to make . If you buy an 80k truck , they are probably making a 40k profit. They wouldn’t survive with a 5k or 10k profit for each vehicle.
I have no proof, but I believe that the car manufacturers are charging artificially high prices for gas vehicles in order to pay for EV R&D and subsidize payment for the new infrastructure. The customer is being forced by government and industry to underwrite the EV as the gas replacement. It is not consumer demand that is paying for EV production.