Check out my new ebook, No-Nonsense Sourdough! grantbakes.com/no-nonsense-sourdough. You'll find 18 creative sourdough recipes with no unnecessary steps and no complicated terminology. Get your copy today!
I’ve been doing cold oven baking for over 2 years now, with great results. Love not dealing with a hot Dutch oven. I do 40 minutes @500F lid on, 10-15 minutes, @475F, lid off.
Been doing a cold oven start for about year, maybe 10 loaves a week. I use a silicone sling instead of parchment and bake to 480F for 50 mins lid on, and 10 mins lid off. However ovens vary, my oven takes about 42 mins to warm to 480F, if your oven comes to temp much quicker, I would expect baking time to be shorter.
One obvious advantage apart from the energy savings is not having to gently drop your shaped bread into a very hot dutch oven while avoiding getting burned in the process.
Cold oven can work fine, as can a hot one. It’s all a matter of timing relative to the final proofing. It also depends on how fast your oven heats. I use a double oven where the smaller top unit heats quickly while the larger lower oven can take 45-60 minutes to reach baking temps. A well proofed loaf would be fine in a cold start in the top one, but it would over proof in the lower. A hot oven eliminates this variable. Either way, use what works well for you.
How can you NOT notice that the cold start oven is BIGGER?? I'm so going to use cold startfrim now on, as it saves time/energy, reduces the possiblity of burning my hands in the transfer and a bigger loaf! This was so exciting, the suspense of the cold start lid reveal, my baker's heart was racing wildly!❤️😂
check the begining of the video, the loaves are not the same size at all, or the pots they are in are shaped different but i doubt it, either way it doesn't matter it seems to do the same thing
@@johanlarsson9805 And his explanation for turning off oven would be same mechanism as if you start from cold oven, crust doesn't get hard right away and yeast still produces gases as oven is warming up
I made my first sourdough loaf a couple days ago with your standard loaf recipe and it turned out amazing. I don’t have a lame or banneton. I used an old metal strainer that I bought at a thrift shop lined with parchment paper to proof it, a razor blade to score it and my old wal mart no name Dutch oven to bake it. I was so thrilled with how beautiful it turned out! Just goes to show that you can start out with things you already have to bake a great loaf. I have your sandwich loaf on it’s final proof right now to bake this afternoon. Thanks for helping me have success!
Congratulations. I used a large glass bowl and a clean white pillowcase and I was stressed out and it transferred perfectly to the cold dutch oven and came out wonderful. I think we tend to over complicate things and worry over stuff that doesn't need worrying. On to our next loaf.
I am NOT A PROFFESIONAL BAKER... but my LOGIC tells me, and your VIDEO PROVES IT... that starting from a cold oven will allow the dough to EXPAND MORE than if starting from the HIGH TEMP oven! I bake once in a while -- "French" breads, pita, and some cakes.. - and I use cold oven to start with the French Bread .... THNX
I was glad to find this video. As a baker, it's long been my opinion that the only reason to preheat an oven was the need to transmit reliable recipes in terms of cooking/baking time. Great job.
I love the cold oven cooking experiment , I’ll be trying it for my next loaf. I live in a hot climate so less oven time means a cooler house! Saves on cooking time and aircon!
It's barely any less oven time tho. He has the oven on 55 mins for the cold oven, and with preheating the oven it'd be around 65 mins (30 mins preheating+20 lid on+15 lid off?
Try baking them outside in a grill. I can do two in my four burner, and I can fit 3 Dutch ovens in my 6 burner. It doesn’t make the house hot, and I often bake 6 loaves at a time. It’s nice to be able to do 6 in two bakes outside.
I have been doing cold start baking for the last month or so, after somebody I know used this method. However I bake my loafs at 450°F for 55 minutes (covered) instead of a 500°F as Grant demonstrated. It saves a me the headache of dropping everything I am doing and running to my timer's beck and call when it goes off 3 or 4 times during a bake, oppose to the one time when bake is done. I also put a circular cooling rack on the bottom of my DO so my dough doesn't come in contact with direct heat off the pot when I bake. (the parchment and dough sits top of that rack). I haven't had a burnt bottom in over a year since doing this.
The issue with cold starts is inconsistency from oven to oven, some heat up much faster than others, some automatically use the broiler during preheat (based on temperature not on setting) as such cooking times will vary a lot.
I learned the cold oven method from Elaine Boddy and the temperature that works the best is 450F not 500F. Thanks for the video I really like this method.
oh, this is game changing! I always hated all that energy waste when preheating oven for 30-45 mins. Now I've just moved to a country where energy is much more expensive! so I am trying it on my next loaf! Thanks so much Grant!
Hey Grant, I use your recipes as my go to for perfect sourdough. But I tried your baking from a cold oven. Amazed!!! The result. Same oven spring good Color, better flavour and better consistency. Oh and it makes gorgeous toast😁
I sincerely appreciate this video, it will be very useful to me. I have osteoarthritis in my hands and I wouldn't have dared to handle very hot things. Thank you for sharing!
Consider putting a pizza steel inside the dutch oven. I do it and it provides a great "false bottom" totally eliminating burnt bottoms but still plenty cooked. Great video man and I'm opting for the cold start as it saves tons on the old power bill.
Oh interesting experiment. I followed your SD recipe. I am using a superheated steam oven. The preheat function only takes 8min and not the usual 30min. So far, I got good oven spring.
When I'm in a hurry, sometimes preheat the dutch oven on the cooker (just a few minutes on a medium intensity flame, and at the same time I turn on the oven. So the total preheating time is 5 minutes, and I use regular timing for baking after that. I think I save something like half an hour (I usually have 45 minutes oven preheating)
Funny how both of you also tested the worst case scenario -- using a dutch oven from cold will slow the temperature rise even more than baking from cold in a thin sealed metal container. What was the hydration level of the loaf in your test? One thing I've seen often said is that high starting temperatures are more important with high hydration loaves. My personal energy saving approach is to use a thin container, insert the loaf timed for the oven to reach peak temp 20 minutes after insertion (when I remove the lid) then turn the oven off and let the loaf cook from residual heat. This works reasonably well even for high hydration loaves.
Wow. What are you trying to teach? Please do more homework before you teach people about how oven spring works. Lastly, this is a silly experiment that does not follow any proper baking process tech or baking science.
@@nobsbaking6391 wow. What basis do have for this statement? He did an experiment using two methods. Regardless of what we’ve been told, the results are the results.
@AnniePaige-iq5qp Sure did. The loaf baked in the cold oven has better volume, as I have always stated. Lower Temps provide oven spring, not high temperature baking. Secondly. Baking a loaf for 60+ minutes drives off moisture excessively, resulting in a drier crumb that will stale much quicker due to moisture migration. This, however , completely fails to mention. Bakers do not ever bake in cold ovens for this one main reason. The only thing this proves is as I mentioned. Hot ovens do not optimize oven spring. My comment is a result of what was not said. If you are going to do an experiment then be sure to explain all the pros and cons to the viewers so they understand the "what and whys" of the final result. Sorry, but this video misses a lot of critical points that are important for people to understand. 'Carte blanche' statements that they are similar when even visually they are totally different, doesn't validate the test results.
TASTE! FLAVOR! Not once, in a video comparing baking methods, is this most important result mentioned. It's as though baking has become a beauty contest. (And I don't mean only this video)
Good point. Flavor is the most important factor. In my opinion, flavor comes down mostly to the flour being used and the method of fermentation. Not really shaping, and to a lesser extent the baking method. I didn't really expect this particular baking technique to have any affect on the flavor of the bread, since I prepared the two doughs the exact same way. That's why I chose not to compare the flavor of the two loaves. But it's definitely something I'll keep in mind if I do side-by-side tests in the future. Thanks, Philip.
My loaves used to burn on the bottom too but I bought a very shallow round metal rack to put into the bottom my dutch oven pot and now the loaves are always golden and never burnt. The rack elevates the loaf just enough to allow air circulation which prevents burning. When I bake a loaf on the oven stone I use the same rack and the bottom of the loaf never burns and again, it's becasue elevating the loaf slightly allows for hot air circulation. I bought the rack from Amazon. I thought the round rack might be too high so I bent the legs off of it and it sits nearly flat on the bottom of the pot. Just as long as there is a layer of parchment paper between the dough and metal rack the system works perfectly.
I enjoyed this test, I have been thinking about trying a cold oven myself! I think the cold oven loaf was significantly larger and the crumb was more open, more pleasing to the eye.
An advantage that you missed of starting in a cold oven is that you don't have to risk burning your hands and wrists putting the dough into a hot dutch oven/cloche. That wins it for me.
i put the dough in the dutch oven for the final proof and put the cold dutch in a hot oven once its proofed. works great. fiddling around with a hot dutch oven is too much of a pain, sometimes literally.
I like this video. Some recipes are asking to preheat for two hours. Waste of electricity. I bake only if I will use oven for the day so I only preheat max 15mins (as the oven is already hot at 180c).
I done both and both ok. Today I tried another way. Preheated the oven for a short time then popped cold dough in cold Dutch oven. Really good rise and crust as I like it. I bake on 225C for 50 mins. Oven and residual heat is more than enough for a few mins. It is really a preference at this point as dough is cooked through. The big plus for me baking from cold start (Dutch oven) is the burning myself part. When you’re not as strong as you used to be, lowering the risk factor is essential. And no I don’t lift a hot Dutch oven out of the oven. I remove the bread and let the Dutch oven cool in the oven.
Thanks so much Grant for going to the effort of doing this interesting experiment. I personally think that the cold oven start produced a bigger loaf and the other differences did not seem to be very marked from a visual perspective. Ive got some dough bulk fermenting right now and are now going to try the cold start method. Plus, i'm an energy tightarse, so this is fantastic mate! BTW, I gave a friend some starter today and we watched a few of your videos to help teach her how to use your original method of making a sourdough loaf. I'm sure she will subscribe and like. Thanks for your invaluable tips and videos mate. Cheers buddy, from West Oz! Hooroo. 😁
@@kingdomwalker247 I have done this cold start method three times so far and I found that it worked very well. I think it has a few advantages to begin with in that you're not trying to put your dough into a scorching hot oven and possibly burn yourself. Second, you aren't burning the heck out of your dutch oven and scalding the bottom. The bread itself rose better than into hot and seemed more open and relaxed upon completion. You do need to already know how long it takes your oven to reach temp though to sucessfully bake it for the right amount of time. Hope that helps.
Interesting - I use the exact same measurements as you, baked in a Lodge cooker, but I get such a different crumb (I actually love the rustic open crumb on my loaves 🧡)
I am a baker in Dallas Texas, I never put a dough in the freezer over a bannetton I prefered to put the dough always in a BPA free container at least for 12 hours or 17 in the fridge and the flavor was really incredible!
Hermetic container, remember the freezer has bad bacterias and germs from the other foods from different places or blood 🩸 leak, also try to use a french dutch oven or german that doesn’t have a fucking metal that with that heat can put some heavy metals in to the fucking air dude
Yes, the cold oven loaf is bigger which would make one think it would be a little less dense. However, the looked the same but he didn't do a taste test. At the end of the experiment I am surprised there was little difference, ir so it seems. Does it have to be cooked in the dutch oven or can either way be cooked in the oven on a tray?
@@dailyfoodwiththeawfulchef366 I agree. Recipes today seem to be overthought compared to earlier recipes. I can appreciate now the “Galloping Gourmet “ from the 60s and early 70s with his reckless disregard for heavy cream and butter…but that’s a story for another time.
I just preheat the oven with the dutch oven up to 500 F and then immediately put the bread in when it reaches temp. I have not found a reason to let the oven sit hot for an extra hour like some people recommend.
@@soffici1 That's why I don't do it. Some recipes call for putting the Dutch oven in and then turning the oven on to the desired temperature for 45-60 min. The oven only takes like 10 to preheat to the temp so that is when I put the bread in. I guess their argument is that just because the oven is saying it is 500, the Dutch oven itself may not be to temp yet. I don't believe that though.
@@Reaper006 I was curious about that silly suggestion, so I bought myself one of those IR thermometer guns to check the actual temperatures (well, that and many other things). With my setup, while the oven indeed takes 10-15 minutes to reach 250°C (max temp I can go to), the Dutch oven takes far longer, so I’ve settled for 2 complete cycles of the resistance: On-off-on-off. At the end of those (about 20-25 minutes) I bake. Maybe your own Dutch oven takes less time to heat than mine does, or maybe it’s all silly and we can easily bake starting with a cold oven and save ourselves at least 10-15 minutes of energy usage
Have you ever spritzed water on top of the uncooked loaf just before baking it? The theory is it prevents the crust from forming sooner, which is what prevents oven spring. I'm trying your cold oven technique with my next loaf AND spritzing it, just to see. Also, I bake to an interior temperature of 210°F, so there's no guesswork. Thanks for your video!
I use the Americas test kitchen duch oven method for sourdough and yeast bread, I do the final proof in the pot on parchment paper then I put the lid on the cold duch oven and put it in a cold oven then set to 450° and bake for 30 minutes then remove the lid and bake for an additional 20 to 30 minutes until the desired color is achieved and I have great results with both sourdough and yeast bread using the cold oven method which is so much easier than dealing with a hot Dutch oven and it also reduces the time that my hot oven is running in near 100° heat in the summer, I no longer need to spend 30 to 40 minutes preheating my Dutch oven in a 500° oven.
I have tried the method of pre-heating (450°F for 45 minutes) the dutch oven (in my case, Challenger Bread Pan) and after loading the dough into the pan, turning the oven off. The heat from the pan bakes the bread, I leave the oven off for 30 minutes. Then I remove the top and turn the oven back on for 20 minutes at 400° F. I get great oven spring, even though turning the oven off after the bread pan has been heated for 45 minutes seems counter-intuitive. Now, I am anxious to try this method and see what happens. Thanks again for sharing your sourdough bread baking tips.
I’ve been baking from cold for a a while now, it’s the only way to bake on a boat where heat and power consumption are of major consideration. I bake at 425 degrees convection, and put the Dutch oven on a baking sheet to avoid the black bottom.
If you're starting in a cold oven, couldn't you technically let it proof in the pot you will bake it in, thereby eliminating one more step in the process...? It also makes sense to me that starting in a cold oven allows the dough to rise a bit more while it's heating up and then eventually the rise is halted when the oven reaches the baking temp. This is soooo great to know! I just recently started an Einkorn sourdough starter and do not have a banneton or a cast iron Dutch oven. I am a potter and will be making a terracotta bread baker with a bare clay lid that can be soaked in water for my bread. The soaked lid should create steam for the crust once its reached baking temperature. Thanks!
You can try room temperature proof in your Dutch oven. Watch Ben Starr's newest 10 minute easy sourdough video. I still like using a baneton for the fancier appearance of the loaf.
Grant, I have been baking my current sourdough loafs by doing the following: Pre heat my large dutch oven to 525 Degrees for at least 30-45 minutes, I usually go 1 hour. Place your scored (I use scissors) sourdough on parchment paper into the dutch oven and cover. Now immediately turn off the oven. After 25 minutes remove the cover and turn the oven on to 450 degrees. Let cook uncovered for another 30-40 minutes depending on how dark you want on your bread, I like mine a little on the dark side. I have found by using this method I have a little better oven spring even from rather low protein flours. My dough is 74% hydration one loaf= 660 grams flour / 150 grams starter / 470 grams water / 17 grams salt. You may have to adjust for a small sized loaf.
@@GrantBakes I too have tried the oven off method, but it is a waste of electricity or gas. Oven Spring and taste quality is about same as baking covered from cold for 55min. Then 10 -15min uncovered until preferred color. Internal temp is at least 205°f.
RE: second loaf It sat on the counter and warmed up while the first cooked for an hour (if I heard you right). And no spritz? The cold oven looks to me to be 25% bigger, despite having the same crumb.
I've been cold oven baking for a long time. Bread, cookies, etc. Dutch oven, dough on a piece of parchment paper lowered in. In the paper creases on the outside of the dough I drop in 6 ice cubes. That is between the paper and wall of the Dutch oven, not directly against the dough. For a small 400 gram sourdough loaf for my wife and I 45 minutes in a Dutch oven covered then 12 minutes uncovered and done.
Do you know if, in a cold oven, the material of the baking pan would make a difference? Like, say you have a cast iron loaf pan, and a regular stamped metal regular loaf pan.... How would a cold oven start affect each of those loaves because of the different pans?
Hello and thanks for the vids, I love them. I have a question: how long can I leave my starter untouched in the fridge before I take a little out for your recipes? I usually do a few feedings before I use it after a long time in the fridge. Is that also necessary for your "take a little" approach? Thanks for your knowledge!
I think it's probably due to the flour I use and the recipe that I use. My recipe is 70% hydration, I usually use King Arthur bread flour, and I cold proof in the fridge overnight. If you do this following my "Good Sourdough Bread" recipe I'm fairly confident you'll get a similar result to mine! Hope that's helpful.
If you put your dutch oven on a roasting pan with a tray in it, it prevents the bottom from burning. Or a sheet pan with a cooling rack. Somehow that "protected" air flow prevents the bottom of the pot form heating too much and since air is a shit heat conductor, it works. I've tried the cold method and found I don't get as much spring. Definitely get more with preheating. Maybe 10-20%, but enough to be worth it imo.
I don’t own a Dutch oven but do start with a cold oven with my pampered chef deep baking stoneware dish. I soak the lid and dish in water for 30 mins first, then bake 50 mins at 450. Take out of dish, lower to 400 for 10-12 mins.
Usually I bake on a pizza stone in a Dutch oven, oven preheated 1 hour to max (230°C). I tried your cold oven method this evening with my standard SD loaf recipe. Slashed the boule, onto parchment, into a cake tin to keep the shape, baked 55 minutes at max temp (230°C). Not as much oven spring as usual. Thicker, crunchier crust with deeper colour and flavour. Slashed edges had a softer definition, visually. Crumb closer, darker and a richer layering of flavour. Better mouth loyalty. I'm going to trial my next loaf in my air fryer. Would you consider trying that too? It's worth a gamble.
Dude!!! Are you kidding me?? This changes everything! My oven can start and stop on a timer. Using this method I could prep a dough, shape it before going to bed, leave it in the oven to proof and wake up to friggin’ FRESH LOAF in the morning! Ok, there are a few logistical kinks to work out, but I’m totally going to try this asap.
I guess so! As long as the loaf could handle an overnight proof at room temperature. Should ideally by a stiff dough in that case that can hold its shape over time.
Hi Grant, I've tried this method a few times. Good at first but not sure it's so good for following bakes. Trying one more time. And do you add steam/hot boiled water for the cold oven bake? Thank you!
Cold oven works for low hydration dough. In your case, the exterior of your loaf looked pretty parched and rigid and that certainly helped keeping it together during the bake.
Good video. I've been using cold start for about six months in a seasoned cast iron Dutch oven (not enameled) and I apply a thin layer of neutral oil (usually olive) and a sprinkle of flour. I've been able to bake a loaf at 85% hydration w/o sticking and burnt bottoms but agree the results LOOK better at lower hydration levels.
Hi,I have a question I left my dough rising more then 5hours,it's makes a huge difference,it's did not look like yours,it's was very dense, what I should do next time,can I leave in the fridge and continue when I come back from work,btw i purchased your ebook,
Why did the bottom of both loaves burn and the parchment paper did not? I never have gotten a charred bottom but the paper turned a very dark brown. I have a crappy oven, though. I bake at 475 F
well that's quite interesting. Ive noticed in my own sourdough bread making that this type of bread is quite forgiving. Chad Robertson's book really taught me how to make bread and while his bread at Tartine is WAY better than mine, my bread is close enough even when I skip/shorten a ton of the steps.
Suggest that you also try std pre-heating and baking method, with pre-heating then baking with oven turned off for 20min, then turning oven on to baking temp.
There's a massive difference in oven design/tech, since electric heaters usually dont have such a strong bottom heating element. I have an electric oven and if i cold start, the bottom of the bread will be half-baked and soft. I need to pre-heat for at least 1 h to get a satisfactory bottom crust (pizza stone).
Just like I did in this video. I just baked the cold oven loaf longer. 50-55 minutes is probably right for most ovens. Just trials and experimentation. If you take the lid off and the loaf looks underbaked still, but the lid back on and keep baking for a little longer. Then take the lid off and let the loaf get nice, brown, and crusty, and take it out when it looks done.
I think you would have had more spring if the second loaf sat out at room temp for a hour or maybe both loafs left out for a hour. One thing I do know is it scores easier when it's cold.
A thought just struck me: Pre heat oven and pre heat dutch oven over direct heat on stove top. Easily verified with an IR temperature gun.. dough into preheated massive iron pot then into the oven. Might be more immediate heating of the cast iron?? From another comment; now I want to find small rack to elevate dough off bottom of dutch oven. So many ideas!!
It looked like the cold oven method loaf was a bit taller in your experiment, and a little more spread out at the same time. Maybe it was just a little larger loaf to start with. I have only made sourdough bread 8 times, over 4 months. I tried the cold oven method for the first time (not your recipe). I turned my oven on just a couple minutes before I placed my loaf in my Dutch Oven and into the oven. I baked at 450 degrees. I just don't like my bread looking black; I'm in favor of golden to golden brown. I put aluminum foil on the rack beneath the one my Dutch oven was on. I baked for 35-40 minutes, took lid off for ten or so; total was 50-55 minutes. It was amazing. I'm not that good at scoring but it still didn't blow out. I made a boule (which I find hard to get into the Dutch oven on the parchment, without making dents in the loaf). My bread weight was 1 pound 8 ounces--quite large. Blessings to you, Grant!
Question: you stated you put aluminum foil on the rack beneath the rack you placed your Dutch oven… does this help with prevention a burnt bottom crust??????
@@pajones02 thank you… I am going to try that… I bake in a 1938 wedge wood stove/oven …temperature varies while cooking.. have oven thermometer but hate to open oven door….will try foil trick before trying to purchase pizza stone. Thanks soooo much for speedy reply,😀 ,
I decided a while ago not to cover them. The top (bottom of the loaf) dries out a little in the fridge,, but since it turns into crust anyway once it's baked, the slight dryness doesn't bother me. Try it out and see how it works for you!
@@GrantBakes thanks. I will definitely give this a try. I find when I'm around 70% hydration, the dough is too wet and looses form when I remove it from the banaton. Yours looks nice and stiff, so I'm super curious to try it!
Nice video, thanks. With the rising cost of energy (thanks, Vladimir) and the environmental catastrophe that climate change is, I reckon saving 10 minutes every time one bakes is going to help both the energy bill and our future… I’m going to try this cold oven method next time I bake
Concerning the bottom burning, I place my Dutch oven on top of a pizza stone and the bottom of the bread comes out softer and not hard. Pre heated oven.
While this is a really cool comparison, I think it's important to note that where you are in the bulk rise and ambient temp could wildly alter these results. You are essentially adding 10-20 minutes to the pre-bake proofing fermentation at a high (increasing) temp. Right? So if you started this at the END of the fermentation peak, you run the risk of overproofing by the time your are up to temp. To me that would be a reason to be really careful with the cold oven method. Especially for new sourdough bakers, I think one of the most important things to learn is how to minimize variables and make the process forgiving. That's one of the reason it's recommended to rise and proof at low temps (like fridge). It gives a wider window to nail the timing. And when you do want the yeast to explode, you blast it with the preheated oven. I think it's possible to get great results either way, but don't be fooled that it's easier to bake in a cold oven!
Good tension on top of the loaf, relatively low hydration dough (70%), and years and years of using the same bannetons. I feel like they build up a natural barrier against the dough if you consistently use rice flour.
ok i'm looking at these two loafs for a long time, and the cold method one is larger than the regular method one, i can't believe you're not seeing that
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Check out my new ebook, No-Nonsense Sourdough! grantbakes.com/no-nonsense-sourdough. You'll find 18 creative sourdough recipes with no unnecessary steps and no complicated terminology. Get your copy today!
Cool experiment thanks.
I’ve been doing cold oven baking for over 2 years now, with great results. Love not dealing with a hot Dutch oven. I do 40 minutes @500F lid on, 10-15 minutes, @475F, lid off.
Do you use parchment paper on the bottom of dutch oven?
@@kamilwalczak9705 yes, I do use parchment paper all the time, cold or hot. The dough does not “sear” like when put in a hot vessel, so may stick.
@RR-hi7ij I put the vessel with loaf in the cold oven, set the temperature, and timer…..that’s it.
Hi there 😃.. so how’s the texture of the crumbs? Thank you
Been doing a cold oven start for about year, maybe 10 loaves a week. I use a silicone sling instead of parchment and bake to 480F for 50 mins lid on, and 10 mins lid off. However ovens vary, my oven takes about 42 mins to warm to 480F, if your oven comes to temp much quicker, I would expect baking time to be shorter.
One obvious advantage apart from the energy savings is not having to gently drop your shaped bread into a very hot dutch oven while avoiding getting burned in the process.
True!
Not really a problem if you lower the loaf in on parchment.
Cold oven can work fine, as can a hot one. It’s all a matter of timing relative to the final proofing. It also depends on how fast your oven heats. I use a double oven where the smaller top unit heats quickly while the larger lower oven can take 45-60 minutes to reach baking temps. A well proofed loaf would be fine in a cold start in the top one, but it would over proof in the lower. A hot oven eliminates this variable. Either way, use what works well for you.
How can you NOT notice that the cold start oven is BIGGER?? I'm so going to use cold startfrim now on, as it saves time/energy, reduces the possiblity of burning my hands in the transfer and a bigger loaf! This was so exciting, the suspense of the cold start lid reveal, my baker's heart was racing wildly!❤️😂
I will combine this with Backing with Jack's tip of turning of the oven for 8-10 minutes when you have placed the breads in the oven....
check the begining of the video, the loaves are not the same size at all, or the pots they are in are shaped different but i doubt it, either way it doesn't matter it seems to do the same thing
I came on here to say that
@@johanlarsson9805 And his explanation for turning off oven would be same mechanism as if you start from cold oven, crust doesn't get hard right away and yeast still produces gases as oven is warming up
lol why did he ignore that obvious difference??
I made my first sourdough loaf a couple days ago with your standard loaf recipe and it turned out amazing. I don’t have a lame or banneton. I used an old metal strainer that I bought at a thrift shop lined with parchment paper to proof it, a razor blade to score it and my old wal mart no name Dutch oven to bake it. I was so thrilled with how beautiful it turned out! Just goes to show that you can start out with things you already have to bake a great loaf. I have your sandwich loaf on it’s final proof right now to bake this afternoon. Thanks for helping me have success!
Wonderful idea to use a strainer
Congratulations. I used a large glass bowl and a clean white pillowcase and I was stressed out and it transferred perfectly to the cold dutch oven and came out wonderful. I think we tend to over complicate things and worry over stuff that doesn't need worrying. On to our next loaf.
I am NOT A PROFFESIONAL BAKER... but my LOGIC tells me, and your VIDEO PROVES IT... that starting from a cold oven will allow the dough to EXPAND MORE than if starting from the HIGH TEMP oven!
I bake once in a while -- "French" breads, pita, and some cakes.. - and I use cold oven to start with the French Bread ....
THNX
I've done a cold oven and cold Dutch oven twice now. Since I heard about it I have had success and awesome loaves.
I like the cold oven bread better. I've done it myself. The slow heat-up is like a proofing time, expanding the loaf size.
I was glad to find this video. As a baker, it's long been my opinion that the only reason to preheat an oven was the need to transmit reliable recipes in terms of cooking/baking time. Great job.
I love the cold oven cooking experiment , I’ll be trying it for my next loaf. I live in a hot climate so less oven time means a cooler house! Saves on cooking time and aircon!
It's barely any less oven time tho.
He has the oven on 55 mins for the cold oven, and with preheating the oven it'd be around 65 mins (30 mins preheating+20 lid on+15 lid off?
Try baking them outside in a grill.
I can do two in my four burner, and I can fit 3 Dutch ovens in my 6 burner.
It doesn’t make the house hot, and I often bake 6 loaves at a time. It’s nice to be able to do 6 in two bakes outside.
My barbecue does much better than oven!
I have been doing cold start baking for the last month or so, after somebody I know used this method. However I bake my loafs at 450°F for 55 minutes (covered) instead of a 500°F as Grant demonstrated. It saves a me the headache of dropping everything I am doing and running to my timer's beck and call when it goes off 3 or 4 times during a bake, oppose to the one time when bake is done.
I also put a circular cooling rack on the bottom of my DO so my dough doesn't come in contact with direct heat off the pot when I bake. (the parchment and dough sits top of that rack). I haven't had a burnt bottom in over a year since doing this.
Do you put the rack inside the DO (guessing) or underneath the pot? Having the same bbottom issue, thanks!
@@lynromero8002 Sorry I'm only seeing this reply now. I put the rack inside the dutch oven, then the parchment, then the dough.
The cold oven bread looks amazing too! Im very surprised 😲👍🏻
The issue with cold starts is inconsistency from oven to oven, some heat up much faster than others, some automatically use the broiler during preheat (based on temperature not on setting) as such cooking times will vary a lot.
Exactly. I tried the cold oven experiment and ended up with a hockey puck. With my oven I need to preheat.
I learned the cold oven method from Elaine Boddy and the temperature that works the best is 450F not 500F. Thanks for the video I really like this method.
oh, this is game changing! I always hated all that energy waste when preheating oven for 30-45 mins. Now I've just moved to a country where energy is much more expensive! so I am trying it on my next loaf! Thanks so much Grant!
Hey Grant, I use your recipes as my go to for perfect sourdough. But I tried your baking from a cold oven. Amazed!!! The result. Same oven spring good Color, better flavour and better consistency. Oh and it makes gorgeous toast😁
Putting the loaf in a cold dutch oven makes me much more relaxed because the first time I ever baked a SD loaf in my new Dutch Oven I burnt myself
Yeah, you can also preheat the oven but leave the Dutch Oven cold. That works too!
I sincerely appreciate this video, it will be very useful to me. I have osteoarthritis in my hands and I wouldn't have dared to handle very hot things. Thank you for sharing!
Wow, thanks for the comment!
great stuff Grant , love the experiments !!
Thank you for the experiment. I will certainly try it, since in Turkey, electricity prices went up dramatically.
Consider putting a pizza steel inside the dutch oven. I do it and it provides a great "false bottom" totally eliminating burnt bottoms but still plenty cooked. Great video man and I'm opting for the cold start as it saves tons on the old power bill.
Oh interesting experiment. I followed your SD recipe. I am using a superheated steam oven. The preheat function only takes 8min and not the usual 30min. So far, I got good oven spring.
I place alluminum foil under the dutch oven for a simple solution to prevent the bottom from burning. Thanks for this experiment.
Great video. It makes sense that the loaf would continue to ferment and rise in a cold oven. Great video. Gonna play around with this method.
Thank you for your experiments and sharing result. It is very helpful 😊
When I'm in a hurry, sometimes preheat the dutch oven on the cooker (just a few minutes on a medium intensity flame, and at the same time I turn on the oven. So the total preheating time is 5 minutes, and I use regular timing for baking after that. I think I save something like half an hour (I usually have 45 minutes oven preheating)
I've just read some comments below: my method might work for saving time and energy for high hidration loaves as well. I usually have 80% or higher
That’s a good trick!
That's so clever
Note: I realize that Food Geek published essentially the same experiment on the same day that I published this video. Consider it a coincidence.
Funny how both of you also tested the worst case scenario -- using a dutch oven from cold will slow the temperature rise even more than baking from cold in a thin sealed metal container. What was the hydration level of the loaf in your test? One thing I've seen often said is that high starting temperatures are more important with high hydration loaves. My personal energy saving approach is to use a thin container, insert the loaf timed for the oven to reach peak temp 20 minutes after insertion (when I remove the lid) then turn the oven off and let the loaf cook from residual heat. This works reasonably well even for high hydration loaves.
Wow. What are you trying to teach? Please do more homework before you teach people about how oven spring works. Lastly, this is a silly experiment that does not follow any proper baking process tech or baking science.
@@nobsbaking6391 wow. What basis do have for this statement? He did an experiment using two methods. Regardless of what we’ve been told, the results are the results.
@@nobsbaking6391what’s your problem? Did you even watch the video?
@AnniePaige-iq5qp
Sure did. The loaf baked in the cold oven has better volume, as I have always stated. Lower Temps provide oven spring, not high temperature baking. Secondly. Baking a loaf for 60+ minutes drives off moisture excessively, resulting in a drier crumb that will stale much quicker due to moisture migration. This, however , completely fails to mention.
Bakers do not ever bake in cold ovens for this one main reason. The only thing this proves is as I mentioned. Hot ovens do not optimize oven spring.
My comment is a result of what was not said. If you are going to do an experiment then be sure to explain all the pros and cons to the viewers so they understand the "what and whys" of the final result. Sorry, but this video misses a lot of critical points that are important for people to understand. 'Carte blanche' statements that they are similar when even visually they are totally different, doesn't validate the test results.
Neat technique! Good way to bake 2 loaves in succession too.
so what's the function of preheating the oven?
For easier time measurement in recipes? Or to preserve the bread's moisture better?
TASTE! FLAVOR! Not once, in a video comparing baking methods, is this most important result mentioned. It's as though baking has become a beauty contest.
(And I don't mean only this video)
Good point. Flavor is the most important factor. In my opinion, flavor comes down mostly to the flour being used and the method of fermentation. Not really shaping, and to a lesser extent the baking method. I didn't really expect this particular baking technique to have any affect on the flavor of the bread, since I prepared the two doughs the exact same way. That's why I chose not to compare the flavor of the two loaves. But it's definitely something I'll keep in mind if I do side-by-side tests in the future. Thanks, Philip.
@@GrantBakes I didn't mean to sound grumpy or scoldy...just frustrated by so much emphasis on other aspects by so many people. 👍
My loaves used to burn on the bottom too but I bought a very shallow round metal rack to put into the bottom my dutch oven pot and now the loaves are always golden and never burnt. The rack elevates the loaf just enough to allow air circulation which prevents burning. When I bake a loaf on the oven stone I use the same rack and the bottom of the loaf never burns and again, it's becasue elevating the loaf slightly allows for hot air circulation. I bought the rack from Amazon. I thought the round rack might be too high so I bent the legs off of it and it sits nearly flat on the bottom of the pot. Just as long as there is a layer of parchment paper between the dough and metal rack the system works perfectly.
I enjoyed this test, I have been thinking about trying a cold oven myself! I think the cold oven loaf was significantly larger and the crumb was more open, more pleasing to the eye.
An advantage that you missed of starting in a cold oven is that you don't have to risk burning your hands and wrists putting the dough into a hot dutch oven/cloche. That wins it for me.
You’re completely right!
Oooh yaa i burned my arm badly yest dy the v hot oven
i put the dough in the dutch oven for the final proof and put the cold dutch in a hot oven once its proofed. works great. fiddling around with a hot dutch oven is too much of a pain, sometimes literally.
Nice experiment! I love watching sourdough myths get busted. Thanks for sharing your results.
I bake the same way, but I put down 4 layers of paper in my D.O. then transfer on top... comes out perfect every time 👍👍
Really enjoyed the techniques
to avoid burned bottom try the fresh cabbage leaf instead of parchment paper. it also gives nice aroma.
A cabbage leaf under the bread against the Dutch oven? Interesting.
@@GrantBakes try it, with maybe 2-3 leafs, and put parchment paper first in pot to avoid possible scorch and damaging.
Use rice flour in the banneton, not regular flour, it won’t burn
Are you letting your doughs get to room temp before popping them in the oven or are they going in cold (right from the fridge)?
I almost always use cold oven baking. 425 for first 40 minutes, then take lid off for about 15-25 minutes, depending on how scorched I want my loaf.
I like this video. Some recipes are asking to preheat for two hours. Waste of electricity. I bake only if I will use oven for the day so I only preheat max 15mins (as the oven is already hot at 180c).
Worth trying it Grant. Thanks
Thanks, Ra’ed!
I done both and both ok. Today I tried another way. Preheated the oven for a short time then popped cold dough in cold Dutch oven. Really good rise and crust as I like it. I bake on 225C for 50 mins. Oven and residual heat is more than enough for a few mins. It is really a preference at this point as dough is cooked through. The big plus for me baking from cold start (Dutch oven) is the burning myself part. When you’re not as strong as you used to be, lowering the risk factor is essential. And no I don’t lift a hot Dutch oven out of the oven. I remove the bread and let the Dutch oven cool in the oven.
Those look so good!
Thanks so much Grant for going to the effort of doing this interesting experiment. I personally think that the cold oven start produced a bigger loaf and the other differences did not seem to be very marked from a visual perspective. Ive got some dough bulk fermenting right now and are now going to try the cold start method. Plus, i'm an energy tightarse, so this is fantastic mate!
BTW, I gave a friend some starter today and we watched a few of your videos to help teach her how to use your original method of making a sourdough loaf. I'm sure she will subscribe and like. Thanks for your invaluable tips and videos mate. Cheers buddy, from West Oz! Hooroo. 😁
@@kingdomwalker247 I have done this cold start method three times so far and I found that it worked very well. I think it has a few advantages to begin with in that you're not trying to put your dough into a scorching hot oven and possibly burn yourself. Second, you aren't burning the heck out of your dutch oven and scalding the bottom.
The bread itself rose better than into hot and seemed more open and relaxed upon completion. You do need to already know how long it takes your oven to reach temp though to sucessfully bake it for the right amount of time. Hope that helps.
Interesting - I use the exact same measurements as you, baked in a Lodge cooker, but I get such a different crumb (I actually love the rustic open crumb on my loaves 🧡)
Open crumb is good too! There are so many factors that go into how the crumb will end up looking. It’s all just preference too.
I am a baker in Dallas Texas, I never put a dough in the freezer over a bannetton I prefered to put the dough always in a BPA free container at least for 12 hours or 17 in the fridge and the flavor was really incredible!
Hermetic container, remember the freezer has bad bacterias and germs from the other foods from different places or blood 🩸 leak, also try to use a french dutch oven or german that doesn’t have a fucking metal that with that heat can put some heavy metals in to the fucking air dude
I don’t know about anyone else, but I think the “cold oven” loaf looked bigger than the “hot oven” loaf.
I concur. The cold oven loaf definitely looked bigger.
Yes, the cold oven loaf is bigger which would make one think it would be a little less dense. However, the looked the same but he didn't do a taste test. At the end of the experiment I am surprised there was little difference, ir so it seems. Does it have to be cooked in the dutch oven or can either way be cooked in the oven on a tray?
The cold oven allows the yeast an extra rise. Bread can be made without anguish or precision equipment. Food can be easy.
@@dailyfoodwiththeawfulchef366 I agree. Recipes today seem to be overthought compared to earlier recipes. I can appreciate now the “Galloping Gourmet “ from the 60s and early 70s with his reckless disregard for heavy cream and butter…but that’s a story for another time.
Totally!
I just preheat the oven with the dutch oven up to 500 F and then immediately put the bread in when it reaches temp. I have not found a reason to let the oven sit hot for an extra hour like some people recommend.
Preheat the oven and THEN wait an extra hour? For what? This is just a waste of energy!!!
And time…
@@soffici1 That's why I don't do it. Some recipes call for putting the Dutch oven in and then turning the oven on to the desired temperature for 45-60 min. The oven only takes like 10 to preheat to the temp so that is when I put the bread in. I guess their argument is that just because the oven is saying it is 500, the Dutch oven itself may not be to temp yet. I don't believe that though.
@@Reaper006 I was curious about that silly suggestion, so I bought myself one of those IR thermometer guns to check the actual temperatures (well, that and many other things).
With my setup, while the oven indeed takes 10-15 minutes to reach 250°C (max temp I can go to), the Dutch oven takes far longer, so I’ve settled for 2 complete cycles of the resistance: On-off-on-off. At the end of those (about 20-25 minutes) I bake.
Maybe your own Dutch oven takes less time to heat than mine does, or maybe it’s all silly and we can easily bake starting with a cold oven and save ourselves at least 10-15 minutes of energy usage
I figured that one out awhile ago. I start every bread, except quick bread, in a cold oven. It always turns out fine.
It works!
Hi Grant! You're the only person I've seen not cover their dough in the frig!
Have you ever spritzed water on top of the uncooked loaf just before baking it? The theory is it prevents the crust from forming sooner, which is what prevents oven spring. I'm trying your cold oven technique with my next loaf AND spritzing it, just to see. Also, I bake to an interior temperature of 210°F, so there's no guesswork. Thanks for your video!
How it come out using the spritzer method in cold oven ? Thanks.
I use the Americas test kitchen duch oven method for sourdough and yeast bread, I do the final proof in the pot on parchment paper then I put the lid on the cold duch oven and put it in a cold oven then set to 450° and bake for 30 minutes then remove the lid and bake for an additional 20 to 30 minutes until the desired color is achieved and I have great results with both sourdough and yeast bread using the cold oven method which is so much easier than dealing with a hot Dutch oven and it also reduces the time that my hot oven is running in near 100° heat in the summer, I no longer need to spend 30 to 40 minutes preheating my Dutch oven in a 500° oven.
Hi u did yr finally proof at room temperature ? Tq
@@patw5550 Yes.
I have tried the method of pre-heating (450°F for 45 minutes) the dutch oven (in my case, Challenger Bread Pan) and after loading the dough into the pan, turning the oven off. The heat from the pan bakes the bread, I leave the oven off for 30 minutes. Then I remove the top and turn the oven back on for 20 minutes at 400° F. I get great oven spring, even though turning the oven off after the bread pan has been heated for 45 minutes seems counter-intuitive. Now, I am anxious to try this method and see what happens. Thanks again for sharing your sourdough bread baking tips.
Thanks! I’ve heard a lot about this method.
I’ve been baking from cold for a a while now, it’s the only way to bake on a boat where heat and power consumption are of major consideration. I bake at 425 degrees convection, and put the Dutch oven on a baking sheet to avoid the black bottom.
Awesome!
Have done the same thing with a German clay cooker (cant put in hot oven) and got superb results
Nice!
Yes, I use clay bakers or metal roasting pans for cold baking, not cast iron. Cast iron takes too long to heat up.
Hello. Do you put the dough in the fridge without covering the bread ??? Not a lid with a plastic bag ?? I would love to get an answer thanks🌹
Yes, I do. Straight in! If you bake it the next day it’s not a big deal.
Great job
It's a great method if you're baking more than one loaf as you're benefiting form the time normally wasted in heating up the oven.
Thanks!
If you're starting in a cold oven, couldn't you technically let it proof in the pot you will bake it in, thereby eliminating one more step in the process...? It also makes sense to me that starting in a cold oven allows the dough to rise a bit more while it's heating up and then eventually the rise is halted when the oven reaches the baking temp. This is soooo great to know! I just recently started an Einkorn sourdough starter and do not have a banneton or a cast iron Dutch oven. I am a potter and will be making a terracotta bread baker with a bare clay lid that can be soaked in water for my bread. The soaked lid should create steam for the crust once its reached baking temperature. Thanks!
You can try room temperature proof in your Dutch oven. Watch Ben Starr's newest 10 minute easy sourdough video. I still like using a baneton for the fancier appearance of the loaf.
Grant, I have been baking my current sourdough loafs by doing the following: Pre heat my large dutch oven to 525 Degrees for at least 30-45 minutes, I usually go 1 hour. Place your scored (I use scissors) sourdough on parchment paper into the dutch oven and cover.
Now immediately turn off the oven. After 25 minutes remove the cover and turn the oven on to 450 degrees. Let cook uncovered for another 30-40 minutes depending on how dark you want on your bread, I like mine a little on the dark side. I have found by using this method I have a little better oven spring even from rather low protein flours.
My dough is 74% hydration one loaf= 660 grams flour / 150 grams starter / 470 grams water / 17 grams salt. You may have to adjust for a small sized loaf.
I’ve been hearing about this method! Still haven’t tried it yet but I plan to. Thanks does sharing!
@@GrantBakes I was impressed the first time I tried it and have been using this method ever since.
@@GrantBakes I too have tried the oven off method, but it is a waste of electricity or gas. Oven Spring and taste quality is about same as baking covered from cold for 55min. Then 10 -15min uncovered until preferred color. Internal temp is at least 205°f.
RE: second loaf It sat on the counter and warmed up while the first cooked for an hour (if I heard you right). And no spritz? The cold oven looks to me to be 25% bigger, despite having the same crumb.
I've been cold oven baking for a long time. Bread, cookies, etc. Dutch oven, dough on a piece of parchment paper lowered in. In the paper creases on the outside of the dough I drop in 6 ice cubes. That is between the paper and wall of the Dutch oven, not directly against the dough. For a small 400 gram sourdough loaf for my wife and I 45 minutes in a Dutch oven covered then 12 minutes uncovered and done.
Nice method! Thanks for sharing.
Do you know if, in a cold oven, the material of the baking pan would make a difference? Like, say you have a cast iron loaf pan, and a regular stamped metal regular loaf pan.... How would a cold oven start affect each of those loaves because of the different pans?
Hello and thanks for the vids, I love them. I have a question: how long can I leave my starter untouched in the fridge before I take a little out for your recipes? I usually do a few feedings before I use it after a long time in the fridge. Is that also necessary for your "take a little" approach? Thanks for your knowledge!
How do you get your loafs so brick looking out of the banneton? Mine turn pancake, even with a great deal of stretch and folds
I think it's probably due to the flour I use and the recipe that I use. My recipe is 70% hydration, I usually use King Arthur bread flour, and I cold proof in the fridge overnight. If you do this following my "Good Sourdough Bread" recipe I'm fairly confident you'll get a similar result to mine! Hope that's helpful.
If you put your dutch oven on a roasting pan with a tray in it, it prevents the bottom from burning. Or a sheet pan with a cooling rack. Somehow that "protected" air flow prevents the bottom of the pot form heating too much and since air is a shit heat conductor, it works.
I've tried the cold method and found I don't get as much spring. Definitely get more with preheating. Maybe 10-20%, but enough to be worth it imo.
I don’t own a Dutch oven but do start with a cold oven with my pampered chef deep baking stoneware dish. I soak the lid and dish in water for 30 mins first, then bake 50 mins at 450. Take out of dish, lower to 400 for 10-12 mins.
Usually I bake on a pizza stone in a Dutch oven, oven preheated 1 hour to max (230°C). I tried your cold oven method this evening with my standard SD loaf recipe. Slashed the boule, onto parchment, into a cake tin to keep the shape, baked 55 minutes at max temp (230°C).
Not as much oven spring as usual. Thicker, crunchier crust with deeper colour and flavour. Slashed edges had a softer definition, visually. Crumb closer, darker and a richer layering of flavour. Better mouth loyalty.
I'm going to trial my next loaf in my air fryer. Would you consider trying that too? It's worth a gamble.
Yes, I definitely want to try a small loaf in the air fryer sometime.
@@GrantBakes Just seen your reply, thank you. I look forward to your experiment and the results :)
Dude!!! Are you kidding me?? This changes everything! My oven can start and stop on a timer. Using this method I could prep a dough, shape it before going to bed, leave it in the oven to proof and wake up to friggin’ FRESH LOAF in the morning!
Ok, there are a few logistical kinks to work out, but I’m totally going to try this asap.
I guess so! As long as the loaf could handle an overnight proof at room temperature. Should ideally by a stiff dough in that case that can hold its shape over time.
I agree, too long of a proof, and high hydration sitting out that long. A bread machine might work better to bake in for this.
Hi Grant, I've tried this method a few times. Good at first but not sure it's so good for following bakes. Trying one more time. And do you add steam/hot boiled water for the cold oven bake? Thank you!
Can you do this with other types of bread too
Cold oven works for low hydration dough. In your case, the exterior of your loaf looked pretty parched and rigid and that certainly helped keeping it together during the bake.
Good point that a 80% or higher hydration loaf might now work as well in a cold oven start.
Good video. I've been using cold start for about six months in a seasoned cast iron Dutch oven (not enameled) and I apply a thin layer of neutral oil (usually olive) and a sprinkle of flour. I've been able to bake a loaf at 85% hydration w/o sticking and burnt bottoms but agree the results LOOK better at lower hydration levels.
Hi,I have a question I left my dough rising more then 5hours,it's makes a huge difference,it's did not look like yours,it's was very dense, what I should do next time,can I leave in the fridge and continue when I come back from work,btw i purchased your ebook,
Why did the bottom of both loaves burn and the parchment paper did not? I never have gotten a charred bottom but the paper turned a very dark brown. I have a crappy oven, though. I bake at 475 F
well that's quite interesting. Ive noticed in my own sourdough bread making that this type of bread is quite forgiving. Chad Robertson's book really taught me how to make bread and while his bread at Tartine is WAY better than mine, my bread is close enough even when I skip/shorten a ton of the steps.
Suggest that you also try std pre-heating and baking method, with pre-heating then baking with oven turned off for 20min, then turning oven on to baking temp.
I haven’t given that a try yet! Good idea.
I am following this method lately, and really find much better results. Try it Grant
There's a massive difference in oven design/tech, since electric heaters usually dont have such a strong bottom heating element. I have an electric oven and if i cold start, the bottom of the bread will be half-baked and soft. I need to pre-heat for at least 1 h to get a satisfactory bottom crust (pizza stone).
Great point! You really have to know your own oven.
Hello! How would you calculate the time you should bake the loaf in the cold oven VS what you usually do in a preheated oven?
Just like I did in this video. I just baked the cold oven loaf longer. 50-55 minutes is probably right for most ovens. Just trials and experimentation. If you take the lid off and the loaf looks underbaked still, but the lid back on and keep baking for a little longer. Then take the lid off and let the loaf get nice, brown, and crusty, and take it out when it looks done.
I think you would have had more spring if the second loaf sat out at room temp for a hour or maybe both loafs left out for a hour. One thing I do know is it scores easier when it's cold.
A thought just struck me: Pre heat oven and pre heat dutch oven over direct heat on stove top. Easily verified with an
IR temperature gun.. dough into preheated massive iron pot then into the oven. Might be more immediate heating of
the cast iron?? From another comment; now I want to find small rack to elevate dough off bottom of dutch oven. So many ideas!!
It looked like the cold oven method loaf was a bit taller in your experiment, and a little more spread out at the same time. Maybe it was just a little larger loaf to start with. I have only made sourdough bread 8 times, over 4 months. I tried the cold oven method for the first time (not your recipe). I turned my oven on just a couple minutes before I placed my loaf in my Dutch Oven and into the oven. I baked at 450 degrees. I just don't like my bread looking black; I'm in favor of golden to golden brown. I put aluminum foil on the rack beneath the one my Dutch oven was on. I baked for 35-40 minutes, took lid off for ten or so; total was 50-55 minutes. It was amazing. I'm not that good at scoring but it still didn't blow out. I made a boule (which I find hard to get into the Dutch oven on the parchment, without making dents in the loaf). My bread weight was 1 pound 8 ounces--quite large. Blessings to you, Grant!
Yes I think the loaf was slightly bigger accidentally. Thanks for the comment, and keep making sourdough!
Question: you stated you put aluminum foil on the rack beneath the rack you placed your Dutch oven… does this help with prevention a burnt bottom crust??????
@@susanbeal4322 Yes. The bottom of my loaf was beautiful so either the foil worked or it was just coincidence.
@@pajones02 thank you… I am going to try that… I bake in a 1938 wedge wood stove/oven …temperature varies while cooking.. have oven thermometer but hate to open oven door….will try foil trick before trying to purchase pizza stone. Thanks soooo much for speedy reply,😀
,
How are you getting that loaf shape when you have so much space at the end of your banneton?
Well done.
Question. When you're proofing in the fridge, do you not cover your loaves with a plastic bag? Why not? Thanks!
I decided a while ago not to cover them. The top (bottom of the loaf) dries out a little in the fridge,, but since it turns into crust anyway once it's baked, the slight dryness doesn't bother me. Try it out and see how it works for you!
@@GrantBakes thanks. I will definitely give this a try. I find when I'm around 70% hydration, the dough is too wet and looses form when I remove it from the banaton. Yours looks nice and stiff, so I'm super curious to try it!
Did I see correctly you put hot oven loaf in the fridge? Doesn't that compromise the baking time or did you set it out to come to room temp.
I do cold oven all the time since I don’t like to handle that hot dutch oven. Works great and easier I think.
Nice!
My oven takes almost 45 min to heat to 500... I dont think it would work for me
Nice video, thanks.
With the rising cost of energy (thanks, Vladimir) and the environmental catastrophe that climate change is, I reckon saving 10 minutes every time one bakes is going to help both the energy bill and our future…
I’m going to try this cold oven method next time I bake
Germany buys the gas at a cheap price and makes a handsome profit selling it on. Just saying.
Concerning the bottom burning, I place my Dutch oven on top of a pizza stone and the bottom of the bread comes out softer and not hard. Pre heated oven.
While this is a really cool comparison, I think it's important to note that where you are in the bulk rise and ambient temp could wildly alter these results. You are essentially adding 10-20 minutes to the pre-bake proofing fermentation at a high (increasing) temp. Right? So if you started this at the END of the fermentation peak, you run the risk of overproofing by the time your are up to temp. To me that would be a reason to be really careful with the cold oven method.
Especially for new sourdough bakers, I think one of the most important things to learn is how to minimize variables and make the process forgiving. That's one of the reason it's recommended to rise and proof at low temps (like fridge). It gives a wider window to nail the timing. And when you do want the yeast to explode, you blast it with the preheated oven. I think it's possible to get great results either way, but don't be fooled that it's easier to bake in a cold oven!
You're getting very easy release from your banneton without any noticeable rice flour coating. What sorcery is this?
Good tension on top of the loaf, relatively low hydration dough (70%), and years and years of using the same bannetons. I feel like they build up a natural barrier against the dough if you consistently use rice flour.
I was thinking the same thing!
ok i'm looking at these two loafs for a long time, and the cold method one is larger than the regular method one, i can't believe you're not seeing that
Sure I read somewhere that putting a tray of water on a lower shelf than the bread stops the bottom from burning
Great video… nice to have options! You are like a scientist!
Wow you are messing w my mind !
Great experiment
Cold start easier, safer, heats up house less.
I take the lid of after 30 minutes, 450 is plenty, make sure the bread is not overproved when using cold oven! If overproved use hot oven!
Awesome reminder to be flexible and respond to what the dough needs.
I find this interesting as I prefer the cold oven method for Elvis pound cake in a large Bundt tin.
So many variables with Sourdough bread baking.. UGH. Thanks for the Vid.
Haha take the useful stuff and throw out the stuff you don’t care about 👍🏻
Did the two doughs weigh exactly the same? Looks like the cold one might be bigger.
how about pre heat the oven but not the castiron?
That's a whole different experiment. I know I've seen people try that out as well! Seems to work fine too.