I recently had a part in C alto. Transposition was not the issue! Hitting the top notes however... (Seriously, who programs Haydn 50 for an amateur orchestra) I'm now practicing a part in H Basso (Brahms 2), which is very hard to transpose on the fly. I was very happy to see that the previous hirer of the part had printed out a part transposed to F! (It's a nice challenge to transpose normally, but for this I am definitely "cheating")
Thanks for making this short video Scott. For me transposing is especially important if I need to read scores. I can also add that transposing is easier if done on the computer using a notation program. With a simple comand, its easier for me to transpose the music if, for example, I need to play on my alto flute.
Hey Mr Scott Leger, thanks for your video. I am a hobbyist musician who is presently learning to write for a small (pop/reggae/funk) horn section. I found your video useful. I am presently trying to get my head around playing using keyboard with sampler virtual instrument plug ins which emulate the horns. I think I probably won't need to get real players to play the parts I write, however, if I do, I believe it would be a useful skill for me to be able to transpose each part to the correct note in score so that the horn players play the correct sound. 🙂
I was taught to change the key matching the correct transposition and add the accidentals on top. It requires a bit of practice but long term I think it's better that thinking in lowering or rising intervals
This is very helpful and understandable. I am in an advance instrumental conducting class in my masters right now and I wasn't really understanding this concept. This clarified everything for me.
In high school (early '90s), I would transcribe parts by hand so that I could keep a copy for practice. It's fun to revisit parts from 20 years ago. Now I transcribe every part I play into MuseScore, and then use the software to transpose to F if necessary (Beethoven 7 is much easier now). Depending on the piece, I'll do the same for the other horn parts as well, which usually requires simply copying the 1st part and moving notes up and down on the staff. Takes a good amount of time, but I enjoy the process. Plus it allows me to use the playback feature to hear tricky rhythms and intervals. We use it in sectionals.
Now, score publishing tools is popular. So the players might be provided their sheet for their instrument key. I don't think tranposition will be excisted anymore. But thank you Scott, this video teaches me a lot. It's knowledge of music.
Never had to transpose before but I was just given a part for Horn in E, a part for Horn in E flat, and for Horn in D for an ensemble I made it into so I guess I have to learn fast lol
3:52 I think this is a nightmare that needs to happen, and it won’t be as scary as you think. Within the next 5 years, I think the pdf2musicxml conversion will be perfected by AI. Soon enough we will not be reading the old PDFs, but instead we will be reading from musicXML viewers that display concert pitch by default. They’ll (obviously) have the ability to transcribe to any other key too.
Very useful, thank you very much! 🙏 I’m a composer and I’m studying scores such as Wagner’s Siegfried Funeral March score to learn from his brass writing for symphony orchestra. He has Horns in C, Tenor Tubas in Es and Bass Tubas in Bs (which are apparently Wagner Tubas) and are supposedly played by French horns in modern orchestras. How should I read these transpositions?
I was truly surprised (shocked really) that Farkas used the clefs method in his “Art of Horn Playing” book. I studied with one of his students and, like you, taught transposition by intervals. Later, studying Conducting my teacher taught transposition using clefs as he was one of those people who could actually play the score on the piano and was fluent in all 7 clefs. I guess when you have multiple transpositions in a score it makes more sense to do it that way.
Farkas actually uses both methods, for intervals up to thirds, like Horn in A he uses the interval method. For large intervals like Horn in C he uses the clef method. I honestly do the same, i can imagine a third above the note because its just the next space or line in the notation but i can’t really see a fourth down or even a fifth down from the note. The clefs make that easier i believe
@@Frick-bv6xt I do recall Farkas writing to use the interval method for E & E-flat Horn since it was so close. Using for A & D Horn makes sense, as you said, as you can transpose easily one line or space away.
I have a friend that he thinks in C, it's was quite funny, we had an Eb part in the band and there was a wrong note (b instead of bb or something like that) and he said what was to him and then we realized it 😅😅😅 (We had only started playing together recently)
Hm, I don't see how everyone reading in concert pitch would be ideal (apart from avoiding confusion at band rehearsal), but ok ;) For me the question is: I play an F horn, why for heavens sake would you give me scores for Eb horn (or anything else)? And "oh you know, but the oroginal scores are in Eb, we can't just transpose it for you!" does not count. Give me an Eb horn then! :) Of couse it's nice to be able to read in any key, but I just didn't subscribe for that xD
My orchestra too gave me an Eb Horn score, I would be happy to transcribe it myself if I needed to, but it really isn’t the job of the score management or even conductor to transpose that. If you can’t play a score in Eb just transpose it yourselves, besides Eb is just a whole tone down.
@@0r10n06 because it would be a nightmare to transpose all old works for natural horn with crooks to Horn in F. You are welcome to do that yourself if you want to, but most classical pieces are written for natural horn, so it would take decades to transpose each of them. It’s easier to just transpose.
Get the key then look at how the pitches relate on the staff is my understanding of what has been stated. Bass clef is alot easier to transpose on horn to me
A nightmare? But whose nightmare is it? Not musicians’, but rather the publisher’s! If they can typeset a new edition of Beethoven’s symphonies without errors then they can use their notation program to create transposed parts (and adding cues as appropriate). It is just about bothering to do a little extra work for the sake of modern musicians.
Just saying ChatGPT sucks for trying to find what note you’re supposed to play from a different instrument. Said trumpet 4th line d is a 2nd line g not above the staff g
I recently had a part in C alto. Transposition was not the issue! Hitting the top notes however... (Seriously, who programs Haydn 50 for an amateur orchestra)
I'm now practicing a part in H Basso (Brahms 2), which is very hard to transpose on the fly. I was very happy to see that the previous hirer of the part had printed out a part transposed to F! (It's a nice challenge to transpose normally, but for this I am definitely "cheating")
loved that ending, tieing it all to the end goal of bringing great music to the people
Thanks for making this short video Scott. For me transposing is especially important if I need to read scores. I can also add that transposing is easier if done on the computer using a notation program. With a simple comand, its easier for me to transpose the music if, for example, I need to play on my alto flute.
Hey Mr Scott Leger, thanks for your video. I am a hobbyist musician who is presently learning to write for a small (pop/reggae/funk) horn section. I found your video useful.
I am presently trying to get my head around playing using keyboard with sampler virtual instrument plug ins which emulate the horns. I think I probably won't need to get real players to play the parts I write, however, if I do, I believe it would be a useful skill for me to be able to transpose each part to the correct note in score so that the horn players play the correct sound. 🙂
You hornists are just incredible virtuosos of transposition! (Greeting from a Clarinet player)
I was taught to change the key matching the correct transposition and add the accidentals on top.
It requires a bit of practice but long term I think it's better that thinking in lowering or rising intervals
This is very helpful and understandable. I am in an advance instrumental conducting class in my masters right now and I wasn't really understanding this concept. This clarified everything for me.
In high school (early '90s), I would transcribe parts by hand so that I could keep a copy for practice. It's fun to revisit parts from 20 years ago. Now I transcribe every part I play into MuseScore, and then use the software to transpose to F if necessary (Beethoven 7 is much easier now). Depending on the piece, I'll do the same for the other horn parts as well, which usually requires simply copying the 1st part and moving notes up and down on the staff. Takes a good amount of time, but I enjoy the process. Plus it allows me to use the playback feature to hear tricky rhythms and intervals. We use it in sectionals.
Now, score publishing tools is popular. So the players might be provided their sheet for their instrument key. I don't think tranposition will be excisted anymore. But thank you Scott, this video teaches me a lot. It's knowledge of music.
Never had to transpose before but I was just given a part for Horn in E, a part for Horn in E flat, and for Horn in D for an ensemble I made it into so I guess I have to learn fast lol
I totally agree. We've had some parts in F for Dvorak's 9th and were full of errors, I rather transport in E...
Thank You Scott. I wish I had discovered this earlier.
3:52 I think this is a nightmare that needs to happen, and it won’t be as scary as you think. Within the next 5 years, I think the pdf2musicxml conversion will be perfected by AI. Soon enough we will not be reading the old PDFs, but instead we will be reading from musicXML viewers that display concert pitch by default. They’ll (obviously) have the ability to transcribe to any other key too.
Very useful, thank you very much! 🙏 I’m a composer and I’m studying scores such as Wagner’s Siegfried Funeral March score to learn from his brass writing for symphony orchestra. He has Horns in C, Tenor Tubas in Es and Bass Tubas in Bs (which are apparently Wagner Tubas) and are supposedly played by French horns in modern orchestras. How should I read these transpositions?
Very nicely done, Scott!
Thanks!
I was truly surprised (shocked really) that Farkas used the clefs method in his “Art of Horn Playing” book. I studied with one of his students and, like you, taught transposition by intervals. Later, studying Conducting my teacher taught transposition using clefs as he was one of those people who could actually play the score on the piano and was fluent in all 7 clefs. I guess when you have multiple transpositions in a score it makes more sense to do it that way.
Farkas actually uses both methods, for intervals up to thirds, like Horn in A he uses the interval method. For large intervals like Horn in C he uses the clef method. I honestly do the same, i can imagine a third above the note because its just the next space or line in the notation but i can’t really see a fourth down or even a fifth down from the note. The clefs make that easier i believe
@@Frick-bv6xt I do recall Farkas writing to use the interval method for E & E-flat Horn since it was so close. Using for A & D Horn makes sense, as you said, as you can transpose easily one line or space away.
Until I can print a transposed part, I use the "write the F notes in the margins" method. 😂
so do you write horn parts for c minor in Eb or c? f minor Ab or f horn? are there horns in Gb F sharp , Db c sharp, G sharp Ab,
If you play in a community orchestra, you need to learn how to transpose!
I have a friend that he thinks in C, it's was quite funny, we had an Eb part in the band and there was a wrong note (b instead of bb or something like that) and he said what was to him and then we realized it 😅😅😅
(We had only started playing together recently)
So, it means that he always thinks in C, even for the F horn.
Hi sir can you please help me with F horn fingerings 🙏🙏
So basically we’re just in too deep to make everything concert pitch?
Hi Scott how do you practice fast passages?
Slowly
Another day of idolizing the trigger on the horn
Hm, I don't see how everyone reading in concert pitch would be ideal (apart from avoiding confusion at band rehearsal), but ok ;)
For me the question is: I play an F horn, why for heavens sake would you give me scores for Eb horn (or anything else)? And "oh you know, but the oroginal scores are in Eb, we can't just transpose it for you!" does not count. Give me an Eb horn then! :) Of couse it's nice to be able to read in any key, but I just didn't subscribe for that xD
My orchestra too gave me an Eb Horn score, I would be happy to transcribe it myself if I needed to, but it really isn’t the job of the score management or even conductor to transpose that. If you can’t play a score in Eb just transpose it yourselves, besides Eb is just a whole tone down.
@@Frick-bv6xt Yeah I know, but that's not my point. I can read it in Eb. I just don't get why I have to.
@@0r10n06 because it would be a nightmare to transpose all old works for natural horn with crooks to Horn in F. You are welcome to do that yourself if you want to, but most classical pieces are written for natural horn, so it would take decades to transpose each of them. It’s easier to just transpose.
think in clefs
Get the key then look at how the pitches relate on the staff is my understanding of what has been stated. Bass clef is alot easier to transpose on horn to me
A nightmare? But whose nightmare is it? Not musicians’, but rather the publisher’s! If they can typeset a new edition of Beethoven’s symphonies without errors then they can use their notation program to create transposed parts (and adding cues as appropriate). It is just about bothering to do a little extra work for the sake of modern musicians.
yeah why horns are not just written in c?
Just saying ChatGPT sucks for trying to find what note you’re supposed to play from a different instrument. Said trumpet 4th line d is a 2nd line g not above the staff g
Horns come in various keys which make it even easier.
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