Low Quality VS High Quality Tools: Combination Squares
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 бер 2020
- Ever wondered the difference between low-end and high-end combination squares? Me too. So today that's exactly what we are going to take a look at.
TOOLS SPECIFIC TO THIS VIDEO:
PEC 4R 4-PC COMBINATION SQUARE- amzn.to/2QeVdf5
PEC 4R BLEMISHED 2-PC COMBINATION SQUARE- lddy.no/m661
PEC 4R BLEMISHED 4-PC COMBINATION SQUARE- lddy.no/m662
EMPIRE 6" COMBINATION SQUARE- ebay.to/2TWl1Pi
EMPIRE 12" COMBINATION SQUARE- ebay.to/38UtnLL
EMPIRE 16" COMBINATION SQUARE- ebay.to/38ZE9QT
Looking for BLEMISHED PEC COMBINATION SQUARES, DOUBLE SIDED TAPE and overall great savings ALL THE TIME? Shop where I shop! lddy.no/go67
YOU CAN SAVE 10% ON STARBOND CA GLUES AND ACCELERATOR!
Use the code “INSPIRE10” at checkout! www.starbond.com
SAVE 10% ON OLIGHT FLASHLIGHTS, TACTICAL LIGHTS AND HEADLAMPS!
Use the code "INSPIRE10" at checkout! olight.idevaffiliate.com/idev...
BANGGOOD WOODWORKING TOOLS: www.banggood.com/marketing-Wo...
MY HAND TOOLS, POWER TOOLS, CAMERA GEAR AND MORE:
www.amazon.com/shop/inspirewo...
VISIT THE INSPIRE WOODCRAFT SHOP: inspirewoodcraft.com/product-...
Adjustable Box Joint Jig Plan: inspirewoodcraft.com/product/...
Multipurpose Shooting Board Plan: inspirewoodcraft.com/product/...
All Purpose Tapering Jig Plan: inspirewoodcraft.com/product/...
EMAIL: inspirewoodcraft@gmail.com
WEBSITE: www.inspirewoodcraft.com
PATREON: / inspirewoodcraft
INSTAGRAM: / inspirewoodcraft
If you appreciate this content and would like to help give back FREE OF CHARGE, simply give this video a “thumbs up”, leave a positive comment, subscribe to Inspire Woodcraft’s UA-cam channel and SHARE THIS VIDEO with someone who you think would enjoy it. Some of the links that we’ve provided above are affiliate links. That means that when you make purchases through those links, we earn a small commission of the sale at no additional cost to you. While we do use affiliate links where we can, we only endorse products or services that we believe in. That commission is a big part of our income, which also goes back into making more videos, so by using the links you help support what we do and for that we are very grateful. - Навчання та стиль
I guess this is how we have to do things for a little while. I hope you're all hanging in there and all is well!
Inspire Woodcraft I appreciate what u do for guys like me that r very new to wood working. God bless n stay safe
Stay healthy!
Thanks for the video. I watched it to the end, and found you had EXTRA INFO. Thanks for that as well. Stay healthy and well.
I’m an old retired guy (71). I needed to get past the tattoos, the “What’s ups”, the beard and I’m so glad I did. I even hit the “subscribe” button. Under the surface I found out that the title, “Inspire Woodcraft,” is spot on. Jody is a fine teacher with a heart that burns with the desire to inspire and extend his own craftsmanship to the UA-cam audience.
Ha! Well I sincerely appreciate you getting past the initial hangups and I thank you for the kind words.
::slow clap::
Imagine prejudging someone based on their tattoos and facial hair...
As always, a very informative video. Love the way you go in depth on stuff and break it down not leaving things up in the air or margin for doubts. Keep up the good work. IMO, your videos and Stumpy Nubs' are the best when it comes to no nonsense informative stuff.
Greetings from Portugal. Stay safe, bro
Thank you for this video. I actually went out and bought a combination square (a cheap one) a couple days ago after watching another one of your videos.
Finally a guy who gets to the points and keeps moving - instead of spending 10 mins talking about how to turn a knob clockwise - very informative - i am technically “new” to woodworking - and tired of things not being square when assembled- so I purchased a empire try square and combination square - at least for now - and watching how to use vids now. Thanks again for the video - and for keeping the info moving from point to point - will be watching more tomorrow
Thank you! I placed an order just now for the PEC 4R 4 piece combination square using the link you provided.
Thank you Sir. Good info. Put that in the old memory bank. I have two of those cheap ones and went out to check them. Both are in scrap metal box now! Now I can tell the wife I need new tools!
Great info. Great presentation. Good luck with the kids!
Great video. Picked up the blemished 4” double square and a 12” combo. $69 for both! Thanks for the tip. Quality is legit! Also stoked to be able to help a Taylor Toolworks during these crazy COVID-19 times
I am very impressed that you made a video on a Combo square. I think it is great to see maker’s with experience make these types of videos. I have not watched your second part yet, and I’m going to as soon as this comment is done. You also mentioned, that there may be one manufacturer that makes most fo the high and low end. I would love to know who it is and what brands they make.
Thanks for the great info. Was not aware the companies sold the blemishes at a discount. As long as function is not compromised I am totally ok with cosmetic issues.
FYI I just bought a blemished one from the same company that Jody spoke of. I don't know if the offer still applies, but the center finder was offered for free and shipping was also free. BTW shipping was fast-like a few days. I'm really impressed.
One of the benefits of being older, is that the heads of all squares used to be made of steel or cast iron. I have several that I’ve had for 50+ years. And they still function perfectly. Maybe folks should look for “antiques”???
That's a good idea as well. Like I said, the upper-end tools still are cast iron or hardened steel heads and hardened, tempered rules. I think what a lot of people forget (not you, but people in general) is that there didn't used to be so many options and a lot of older tools were just made of better materials and that was the end of it. Of course there was still certain levels of quality, but not like now.
Jody, I am really enjoying and excited about this "new" series of videos. You should call them "The next step, or The step up" series, just a thought, but anyhow I'm really digging the upgrading of tools as your experience is improving idea and the way you are presenting them are nothing short of excellence. Keep up the amazing job and keep yourself and your family as save and healthy as you possibly can. I pray for all of my UA-camrs as well as everyone else that this COVID-19 Blows over in the very near future!
Used your link and bought the blemished 4 piece, I also liked and subscribed. Now to check out more of your videos, tyvm.
Love your straight forward, no bullshit, (pardon my language if there are ladies present), comments towards the viewers that post nonsense. I know you hear it all of the time, but thank you for your time and videos.
Good content and good review. Keep it coming brother.
That's all great info, I'm looking for a combination square and now know what I'm looking for. For info many of the squares in Europe have inch based graduations one side and millimetre based graduations the other side.
Very very good explained! Regards from Germany.
Another great informative video...
Can't wait to see the next one and learn how bad my square is...
hahaha
I picked up the tri-combo (square, centering, protractor) blemished PEC after hearing about it from your other video. Love them. Thanks!
Hey thanks for adding this comment! Super helpful for others to hear!
@@InspireWoodcraft Two snaps in a Z formation! I guess you have to be old enough to get the reference - from In Living Color
Hansang Bae Homey don’t play that! 😉 I got you.
Picked up a PEC 12" 16R hardened combo square with the case at a flea market for 10 bucks! PEC'S web site lists it for $92 and change. I got myself a deal!!
Great vid!!
Great information. Thank you
Great video. Love tool talk. I've never seen eye to eye with combination squares but then again Ive always had cheap ones. This video has convinced me that I need to try a quality one and re-evaluate. More wisdom like this please! EDIT...I just checked the price of a mitutoyo combination square. Holy moly...274 Euros.
Try the link in the description for the blemished PEC. It’s an eBay link and I’ve been told the shipping is way less for those overseas. My understanding is that PEC actually makes Mitutoyo’s combo squares, so you’re basically getting the same thing at a huge discount. Let me know how it goes!
Very well done. Thank you.
Having done a little long distance shooting and foundation layout work I have found that a laser pointed at wall 20 ft away is a great way to calibrate "streight " so if you want straight use a laser, make a jig and you will find out that a 64th out at 12" is way more at 20 ft and than all you have to do is dial it in and that Piano your building will sound so much better.
Very useful. Thanks.
A family member willed us his tools a few years ago, and I'm watching this to find out exactly what they are.... and what that little scribe was! The combination set square I have is a vintage Picador brand with inches/sixteenths on one side of the ruler, centimetres/milimetres on the other.
Good video. When you do the close up comparisons, it would be helpful to have a label on the high end vs the low end one. I am pretty sure I know which is which, but not 100% sure I'm seeing what I am supposed to be seeing.
While trying to tackle a couple of recent DIY projects I realized I never got a proper education about squares or what to look for in a good quality one. Your explanations and tips on where to find "blems" were extremely helpful. Found one on Harry Epstein and saved about 30%. Thanks a bunch!
Very well done.
Thanks for sharing that
Starrett was the original company that invented the Combination square, and seem to be the best you can buy .
I just bought a fisco combination square. Would you consider it to be a cheap or high end unit?
Regarding the end finish of the rules: that is not ‘bent until breaking off.’ What you’re seeing there is conchoidal fracturing. It’s just how steel fractures in a press. Bending back and forth until breaking is an example of “work hardening” which also results in stress fracturing and eventually conchoidal fracturing but would be completely unacceptable in a manufacturing facility, production-wise. Point is, not only is the fit and finish of quality tools superior, but the practice of quality control and pride in manufacturing is far superior as well.
Question what if we were to find these combination squares in flee markets and other similar places, what are the signs/things we should look for to ensure it a high quality combination squares or increase our chances of finding one?
I just ordered a PEC blemished 4R set, and a 6" double square. These will replace 2 Empire squares that I'll throw out because they were so bad to work with that I couldn't deal with them anymore.
Cast iron square head vs cast aluminium square head which is better for accuracy?
I'm curious to see you method. When I got my combination square I immediately saw it not at 90º.
I "invented" my method without trusting only a normal square I have.
As I didn't have any piece with a perfect strait line, I decided to try an A4 sheet from the printer.
I saw clearly that my normal square was perfect and the new combination one had a deviation of about 1mm in 150mm.
I discovered the two pieces that could be filed and filed one of them until the new square was perfectly aligned with both the normal square and the A4 sheet of paper.
Yes I believe you did it basically how I would. Although with the aluminum heads you can actually use the blade itself to shave away material instead of filing, just for future reference.
The use I see for the level would be for hanging doors, which are typically nice and square. A quick check is easier than reaching for a beam level especially when working alone.
I don't think I followed what you said about removing the ruler shaving material. The head is aluminum which is softer than the steel ruler, how could that happen? If anything the harder steel ruler would damage the aluminum tabs inside of the head, but it's a smooth edge so it should slide without any issues.
Fantastic, dude! Thanks a lot! 😃
I'm from Brazil, so it's too expensive to buy from the US (because of the shipping costs). But I've found a pretty good brand from Banggood that I'm buying tools from. I bet they don't have the same quality as the good brands from the US, but... Well, I liked it a lot. (And it's not that cheap.)
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
MC's Creation , i've seen extra ordinary woodworking skills and built in Bangkok & Indonesia with common tools and measuring equipments .
hey, can you please share the Banggood brand that you mentioned. I'll like to try it out.
@@donajose It's called Drillpro. 😊
I have been watching reviews and comparisons of combination squares of late and have been inspired to look at the square that I have had for 25 years or more. I don't know what I paid for it or where I purchased it. I used steel wool to clean up the 12 inch rule as it was stained and had a bit of rust. I can barely read the brand name on the rule . . . it is a Tradesman. The head is not steel but aluminum or some other metal. The slot for the rule is wide with a plastic sleeve. I thought that can't be good. I did the tests though and found it was dead accurate. The measures on the rule are etched but difficult to read. Not a big deal as I rarely use it for measurements. I won't soon rush out to purchase a Starrett or I guage.
Very informative. For those on a budget, i found the igaging double squares are great. The 4" one is very handy
Yeah I haven't had my hands on an iGaging but I've heard others say good things about them too. Great add!
Ive seen some good reviews on igaging vernier calipers too, they seem to be decent for a budget manufacturer.
How accurate is the combination square that uses a magnet instead of a screw?
I guess it depends on the square. You should always check.
Actually I didn't realize that existed. I did a really quick search but the only things I came up with (again, limited search results) were fairly inexpensive, aluminum head units. Nothing against inexpensive, obviously, but jut based off basically everything I mentioned in the video and new product price typically reflecting quality and longevity, I'd personally be weary. Cool concept though. I might have to find one or two and put them through their paces.
Just wanted to take the time to say I miss your video posts and hope everything is going well for you.
11:25 steel and Stanleys steel is cut for 3/4 of the thickness and breaks off the last 1/4, maybe 1/3, always.
got my combination square at harbor freight. not the best finish, but for less than $7 for a steel and aluminum, it is a good deal.
20-25 years as a consumer? Dude, that means you started when you were 5.
I didn't even know that a centering head existed. I need one of those! The protractor too, especially when working with the disc brakes. Another great video!
Stay safe. Wash your hands and don't touch your face! ;-)
PS - I always make it to the end! You're welcome
Haha! I'm almost 41 my friend. But I did technically start when I was 5 so I guess I should adjust my math a little either way. (And by the way, I know you do and for that we are always extremely grateful.)
@@InspireWoodcraft I remember 41... vaguely.
The thing about price is that it does not have a linear relationship with quality. That's assuming there is any relationship at all. Plenty of luxury brands are actually not very well made. But if there is a relationship that Starrett which costs ten times as much as some other brand might be twice as good or it might only be 10% better.
Was debating getting a cheap Chinese one or a $100 made in the USA Starrett brand. Then had the idea to search ebay for used vintage stuff. Settled for a $20 made in the USA craftsman.
One word STARRETT. It lasts a lifetime and more!
I have an Empire that is as square as I could want. I never thought about the wear issue. I'll have to check from time to time. I would never consider it for precise measuring. I have a Woodpeckers' scale for that. I also have an unbranded, made in the U.S.A. combo square that may be fifty (or more) years old. I think it was my Dad's. The scribe disappeared decades ago, it has been dropped many times and banged around constantly. It is still square. Some tools are amazing.
I have an empire as well, it's decently square but the cast aluminum sole is no where near flat!
I'm going to bring that up in the next video as well. I have a 6" Empire that the 90 degree reference is not only not flat but completely warped.
I also have empire square that are perfectly square but I don’t throw them around to make sure it’s stayed square longer
Can’t understand why they charge to much for woodpeckers
I know you pay for quality but make it affordable so anyone can get at least one for setting tables saw, miter saws and furniture
I believe that a Starret square is designed to last a life if treated as a precision tool.
Perhaps, but unless someone is well off or using it professionally nearly 300 Euro is a hefty price when a decent cheaper make will be more than adequate.
It's the same for us in the UK but like you say at least with a workshop you have somewhere to go to do stuff. With my combination square when I need to move the rule along for any reason I tend to place my finger and thumb under the rule to lift it off of the body of the square to cut down the wear.
That's not a bad idea at all. Thanks for sharing!
I'm using my grandfather's 65 year old square. It has a slight bend, scale is completely worn down and illegible, and it's not perfect, but it's still squarer and straighter than I could ever cut. LOL
He is probably the only one that mentioned about peg hook being over stock and that last one being squeezed on there..🤣🤣🤣
I don't want to sound like a total woodworking hack but I think a persons skills and using good materials is more important that tools. So I'm not saying buying really cheap tools but buying the best, machinist grade tools has a diminishing return. Blems or good enough quality tools seems like the right place to be for most DIY tools. when I don't have the means to take quality care of my tools all the time professional grade tools seem overkill. I think advice on how to maintain and acquire Blem tools is very helpful. just my 2 cents.
11:05 Enough said.
Crooked and rough vs. Fine and Flat.
You get what you pay for.
When are you going to inspire us with a woodworking project?
That's a tough one. Once I have enough money, for one. These videos help pay for projects and honestly way more folks watch these videos and find them useful than any project video.
18.51 for a combo square ???
Did I say that? That's a very specific number.
Okay I think I’m seriously not understanding. Sorry. In your original comment you wrote “18.51” and I’m not sure what that means.
Oh. Haha. I’m not all there today. My bad. Thanks!
@@InspireWoodcraft I think the OP was referring to the length of the video- If it was a very good presentation with little or no repetition (and it was) then video length doesn't matter. Your a natural-keep up the good work!
Fair warning to those who are tempted to buy the "blemished" sets linked in the description. I just received one of these sets and it's pretty awful. The protractor slot is machined 2 degrees off from the scale, and the center finder is milled about 3/32" off center. In my view incorrectly machined parts do not equate to a cosmetic blemish and should simply be sent to scrap. YMMV, you may get luckier than me. I'm going to try and send this back and will keep looking...
I bought one on Amazon a week ago, shipped in a padded mailer, UPS, blade was bent when I got it, returned it, got another, same sort of padded bag. At that point I got a refund. $12.00 tool, $500 PITA I was on hold for an hour today trying to get a RMA.
Wait what did you buy exactly from Amazon?
Why would you even bother to phone if you bought from Amazon?
The cheap heads are also made out of zinc. You can tell the difference because the aluminum is silvery, and the zinc is grayish. The zinc is also heavier. It may be slightly more expensive than the aluminum models, by a few bucks. Still pretty cheap. Iron has a clot of carbon, so its self lubricating. Zinc has a slight amount of lubricating qualities, though no carbon. Aluminum sticks.
Also, go to McMaster-Carr to buy different kinds and lengths of rulers, or heads. Since these are all standardized, all rulers will fit all heads of any type.
Interesting. I only go to McMaster Carr for hardware so I had no idea. Also do you know how "hard" the zinc is compared to aluminum?
In general zinc is about 20% harder than the Al alloys used in these cheaper heads. McMaster-Carr carries well over a half million items. If you have an iPad or iPhone, and I imagine, an Android device, they have an app you can set up an account with and order from, its very good.
Or you could just buy a Starrett or Mitutoyo. You do not HAVE to do anything as they are dead square out of the box and they stay that way. Homeowner stuff as opposed to industrial use every day that HAS to be accurate within .0005.
I believe PEC makes the squares for Mitutoyo and they also might make them for Brown & Sharpe and Fowler as well as a few others.
HD or Irwin must've seen this because they sell a 16'' for like 20$ now lol
Tool buying fetish.... Haha! 😇😎
20-25 years..???
I didn’t know they had wood shop in fifth grade..
And where are your Starrett tools..
Aluminium reacts with steel, a form of oxidation. Don't buy. Moore and wright or starrett are far better products life time of use if you treat it well. Like any tool if you treat it like shit shit happens. Look after your tools.
But if I get nice tools I can't get pissed off at work at go to the hardware store on Saturday
If you scratch that tabletop you will be banished to your shop
Funny I thought about that too. Although if it scratches I can do a video on how to refinish a table. HA!
You’re welcome!😇
Great information, but way too long vieo
Yeah sometimes that's just the way it turns out. When I shorten them up most people complain that I don't give enough info or that I talk too fast. So I just roll with it and edit as tight as I can and let it fly. Seems to be working.
I thought it was a well done video. I had no idea how long it was when it finished. The time just flew by.
Amazing treatise on combination squares. Top drawer. You could teach at a trade school. True; Starrett is more expensive, and that expense as you state is reflected on the small details that separate quality from frugality. Starrett lasts long enough to hand it down to the next generation. One thing, if you want supreme quality in Starrett, do not buy the cast iron one. Buy the forged and hardened heads. Those are the best. I was told by some carpenters, that the old Starrett were of higher quality than the new Starrett products. Starrett still makes extraordinarily high quality products; however, one thing that people need to understand is that their products are not in demand as much, mostly because of the lack of machining, and manufacturing, because of American companies taking work out of the USA, to foreign countries, and likewise the assistance that degenerate bastard of Clinton gave to China in 2000 by admitting them into the WTO, put practically the last nail on the coffin of American manufacturing. Therefore the demand for high quality measuring tools has slacked. Why? Because admitting China into the WTO, took off all restraints to owners of manufacturing companies, to go abroad. Thus, jobs went, and so have the highly qualified and trained mechanics, machinists, and builders that drove our economy. No one here in the US is striving to fill those positions here in the US, because the jobs for highly specialized workers is gone. Hence, less need for quality measuring tools as well. So, I might consider that some quality in top tooĺs such as Starrett may likely exist. Economists say otherwise, but they are only looking at the output of robotics, and automation. Not at the fallout of less jobs, less wages, and less needs for education and training of specialized workers, which if you take away the automated manufacturing, it shows the US is in deeper trouble than many realize.
What's the point? Nobody uses combo squares. Ever seen one on a framing job? No. Ever seen one in a cabinet shop? No.
I just bought a blemished 12" combination square from PEC based on these videos. Mine is about 1/64th out of square over the course of the blade. In addition, I have a weird nonparallel opening on the anvil (see pictures: docs.google.com/presentation/d/16C-W94Z5MlAS4impxIzO1YOFJqJZiNmaDiwVHdWY9xo/edit?usp=sharing). Related to that issue, when tightened, the lock nut is BARELY in the ruler's track. (This is worse than it appears in the images).
Obviously, the materials are quality and I'd like one of these that is up their claimed high precision standards. Should I try another one or is this a common issue with these squares?
@Mike A Oh no! Over the years I have heard about issues here and there, like with most things. But buy and large most folks are really happy with them. If you got it from Taylor Toolworks, reach out to them and tell them what’s going on. I’m betting they’ll take care of you right away. Great group of people over there.
@@InspireWoodcraft Thanks for the reply. Taylor Toolworks sent me a canned response to my detailed message but this is via their ebay store so maybe I'm a second class citizen :D. I'll order another and see if I have better luck!
@@InspireWoodcraft I got another one. That weird nonparallel opening isn't present in this one, that was a pretty weird issue. It still wasn't square to claimed tolerance, but it was better. I was ready to take a file to it, but luckily noticed an issue in the ruler first. The ends of the ruler are ever so slightly wider than the interior. This was making my interior angle acute. Even though it was probably only ~.001" different, that compounds to .01" over 10 inches. Flattening this with sandpaper on my cast iron table saw seemed to the trick! I'll share this as a comment in your other more relevant video in case it helps others.
Anyway, thanks for your response that convinced me to give it another shot! I'm optimistic this will be a dependable square for years to come.