Bluewater Ascents in Recreational Training?
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2023
- I think its essential - but a lot of divers think its too much - what about you?
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I had to train that in my early diving career (maybe 20 or 30 dives). A UDI instructor had me do it and I even had had to do simulated regulator sharing during a 3 min 5m stop. Did it hurt me? Hell no. I really apreciated the training I got early in my career wich helped me get to be a better diver in a lot of situations.
I had to use this ability once on a wreck dive while getting fin-kicked by another diver at the shot line on the ascent. Strong current - didn't make it back to the line... Did my min deco safe in blue water. Decided to shoot an smb for the boat though... No stress or worries at all. Just calm and relaxed. Thanks to prior training.
Besides... it is always fun to be a good diver hanging effortlessly next to a crowded shotline with good trim and posture. That inspires others to want to become better divers themselves.
I initially trained with PADI, and then SSI up to DM level and this was never discussed or taught. This was first introduced to me during GUE Fundy.
Agree. I hope you find peace and comfort during this difficult time.
If you don't practice it in training then your first time will be when you don't have an option.
I got lucky with my training because we did blue water ascents and had no other choice. Great way to ensure people know how to be properly weighted and avoid overinflated BCDs.
Sorry to hear about your father. Having a father with arthritis and rheumatism and passing 70 years it is something that is on my mind (back or the front) regularly. strength and thoughts sent through the ether!
on blue water ascent i never had it trained during recreational courses, but my dive club have many technical divers who are happy to share techniques and skills that makes us better divers. They pushed us to get comfortable with shooting SMBs and and to ascend a line as a team not too fast or too slow.
at one time tho we did do an open water ascent due to the shotline breaking from the bouy. the bouy was recovered by the boat, and we divers on the wreck remembered where the weight was, and we just shot an SMB and fastened it to the weight. We created a new shot line so to speak.
the second time it was relevant was on a dive where the seas was too strong to do a regular pickup and the captain told us to swing along the underwater canyon that headed in a specific direction and shoot SMBs. at the end of the dive, shooting the SMB was easy due to good training and then just treating it like the repaced "shotline", using the dive computer depth gauge to correctly ascend.
i think it is a good thing to teach, and looking back on my open water and andvanced open water i would've liked more time and teaching on boyancy, trim, and procedures such as blue-water ascent and similar.
thank you for your content! your SMB videos has been a great support in my smb skills (can always get better), and another video that was important was a video where you reviews a pair of Nova fins, and actually showed that backfinning isnt so much a specific fin, there's a technique for each fin. some are easier tho.
it did inspire me to train more. it is not the equipment that dives, i am diving, using the equipment.
regards from sweden
Wishing you peace, comfort, courage, and lots of love at this time of sorrow.
We get dropped on the mark. After the dive we ascend, doing the deco stops as required. When at 5 meters, one of us pops up the DSMB so the boat can find us. We will always keep an eye on the less experienced in the group. We have some divers who simply can’t do it. So when we are doing deep dives, we only take divers who can control their buoyancy and ascend safely. It’s more about your skills and experience than what certification you hold.
100%
Finished a OW course today and all 4 students had twice done stops in blue water without line-holding and I loved to see them hanging effortlessly at 5m enjoying the view :)
Really sorry for your dad.. It's only natural but still really painfull when the time comes to say goodbye. I wish for your family to stay strong and for your father to have a peacefull passage to the other side with no pain and whilst surrounded with your love.
Talking about training dives for OWD? Great idea, but this means you're assuming that OWD students have
1, a balanced rig right from the start
2, a good understanding for buoyancy changes while ascending
3, a nice trim
That's a lot to ask for someone who has done between zero to five dives to be honest...
I do agree that it would be a great skill to practice as soon as my points 1-3 are fullfilled...
(Sorry to hear about your family emergency!)
Most definitely yes! Maybe not with each and every student and there most definitely is the right time and place for each student to learn this, but this is in my eyes a very important skill to master! Great vid! Thanks 👌💙
I was taught (wittingly or not) "green water" ascents (in low viz Monterey Bay, California) as a recreational diver during navigation specialty training. It's a valuable skill and there's no reason why all divers shouldn't know how to do it.
I’m sorry to hear about your father. I didn’t even realize that this was a “big deal” thing. Or even a “skill” if you will. I’ve done these dozens of times, even on beach dives. Swim out, drop down and enjoy the reef. If it’s very calm serge you can swim your way up to shore slowly rising in depth as the ocean floor rises. Or you can stay on the reef and enjoy. And then when it’s time to come up, you just go up. Watching your depth gauge as you go, stoping at your safety stops. It’s not rocket surgery. Hell we did that on my first dive on our own without and instructor. As long as your buoyancy is good, which it should be, it’s easy. Just watch your gauge!
Absolutely. Here in New England (USA) we dont have blue water we have very low viz water and don't always have mooring line when we return to the boat so the ability to do a free water ascent is necessary.
Totally agree with you, we train "free ascent" in OWD courses, even if this is not demanded by agency standards. Any good instructor tries to give something more than standards to his students...
I'm still a beginner (40 Dives) and Advanced Open Water Certificatet. I think this is a standard exercise to train. We went in May at Elphinstone Reef Egypt. 36m Depth with Hammerhead Sharks. Negative Bouyancy Entry because of Current and at the end Bluewater Accent without SMB (We had a good Guide). Whats the Problem? Thats how you learn to Dive. It was one of the best experience in Scuba diving for me.
You are absolutely correct. It's an essential skill, to be able to ascend safely with no visual reference. PADI teach 'no faster than your slowest bubbles', although most good dive computers can give you an idea of which direction you are moving and how quickly. It's easy for a beginner to overshoot. It's also annoying and mildly amusing to watch buddies grasping their reels with white knuckles while in surge and their arms are being pulled up and down, up and down with the waves xD.
Padi has never taught in any course to follow your bubble. This is CMAS bull shit
Fully agreed. Before SMB become common we did quite many blue water ascends. It definitely is no rocket science and worth to teach. Even you would never need to do one at least it develops boyacy control and "water confidence".
First let me say how sorry I am to hear of the situation with your Dad. It was much the same way for me when I lost mine a few years ago. I wish much peace and solace for you and your family during this time. Secondly, how is there any contention whatsoever on "bluewater ascents"? I have rarely used a line to ascend. I'm retired now and we dive about 4 cylinders per week on average and they are basically all bluewater ascents with the possible exception on diving on a purpose sunk ship in the area in high current situations. I've done those ascents and learned what a flag feels like.
My dad was about to pass away while I was training for SSI XR in 2019 on the other side of the planet, so I had to leave with an early flight, not see him in his last minutes, and incidentaly lose a few bucks on training fee and flights, as insurances are the way they are and compensated zero. You have my sympathy, be please taming your sorrow. A year does work just as good on this as 5mn or more deco.
On the topic of blue ascents, they are trained as part of CMAS** in the french system, and more so for rescue ascents. For CMAS*** they are done from 38m to 6m, on an instructor who gives no sign and "faints" or panics at the most inconvenient moment. I imagine you have all kinds of reservations about this kind of heavy rec training, but I just wanted to let you know this is still the common practice nowadays.
Understand your need to step away for a minute at this time. I hope the transition is peaceful for all involved.
Yes, this skill is vital. Teaching buoyancy during safety stops on recreational Open Water is vital vital. Once you are done with students, you no longer have any input on their diving experiences.
Blue water ascents will happen. The progression seems to be, Open Water, Nitrox diver, Advanced Open Water diver in terms of the first 20-25 dives. People want to “go deep” and see the wrecks in the 25-30 meter range as soon as possible.
I’m not going to argue how many dives determines when someone should pursue “advanced” recreational scuba diving. Individuals vary.
But what WE do is this. Teach buoyancy control on ascent from the first Open Water dive. Period. Safety stop mandatory. This prepares for Blue Water ascent environment. Drift diving IS a blue water ascent.
Given differing air consumption rates, newer divers will ascend before the more experienced group as a rule. And will find themselves without a visual reference at times.
Once folks get to the 25 meter range? Half stops. Why? Because even though you are now on Nitrox and have longer bottom time, your second purchase was a GoPro or some other underwater camera. And despite all our teaching, guess what? You got distracted by that really cool “once in a lifetime” opportunity to shoot some cool feature/creature on the bottom. You just exceeded your “no deco” limit. On a recreational dive. Now what?
You have to ascend from a depth and hold half stops. Within one meter, DSMB deployed or not.
So we find ourselves teaching half stops to people 20-25 dives into their recreational experience.
Sorry to write a book here, but HELL YES we need to be teaching blue water ascents on initial Open Water training.
Hi Achim. Sincere condolences on the passing of your father 😞
Great video I’m not good at free ascents bad in fact.
I am very sorry about your father. Stay strong, remember him well and warm.
Most of my dives don't include a reference line. I didn't realize that it was that common. I only deploy the dsmb if diving from a boat or surfacing in an area with boat traffic. I do a lot of shore diving and never felt stressed about having to come up in any part of a dive without a line for ẁatever reason, the depth gauge in my computer is my reference. SSI.
I got a question about deploying the DSMB. If I don't hang on mine, it won't stand upright in the water (1,8 m DSMB). So it will not be seen from further away. So just letting dance the spool between my fingers won't work for me. Is that a contradiction or is it that if the DSMB doesn't stand upright in the water than one should rather hang oneself on the line to get it up? Thanks for answers.
In most cases, a small (1m) SMB is more effective than a very large one, because it takes very little effort to make it vertical and visible to the boat. Very large SMBs which are flopped over (especially when they're partially inflated) aren't very visible.
I was recently on Madeira, there the Guide basically expected us to be able to do a blue water ascend (although you could say a guide with good buoyancy is a point of reference). Also, the first time I had to do a blue (or green in this case) water ascend was when I had lost my Buddy due to very bad visibility in a lake... the visibility was so bad that there was no chance of finding my way back to the entry... So no chance there.
That happened to my buddy and I in the Atlantic Ocean off Riviera Beach last year. Hurricane Ian had come through about a week prior, plus Lake Worth inlet was emptying (tide was going out) and the resulting topwater was disgusting. Dove on wrecks in the 85-105 foot range, and I'd say the first 30 feet of the water column was like being in a washing machine filled with used mop water, not to mention the surface swells were so big on occasion, there was a time or two the boat guys lost sight of my 7FT SMB... looking back now, it was a great story. In the moment, not the most comforting environment for sure. LOL
Hey Achim I cannot find the link to the dive shop in Mallorca I'm going there next month so I like to check them out Thanks
Its on top of the description.
Got it Now thank you
sorry to hear that about your father.
stay strong.
Sorry for what you are going through. Family comes first, if talking about diving helps we look forward to it. Take the time you need, we will still be here
there are some reservoirs here where I live and the water visibility is so bad you really cannot see anything.
Hi Achim,
just brief: BLUEWATER ASCENT => self evident❗️
Best wishes >Lutz
Mein Beileid und alles Gute! Vielen Dank für die vielen wertvollen Videos aber Familie geht immer vor!
I have seen this many times, guy that just started diving with maybe 100 dives is telling old tech diver that has thosands of dives that something never happens.
It had hapened that we jump in sea and after dive we for some reason lost our boat and had to deploy dsmb and get to surface, its nothing complicated.
She is probabley type of diver that asks dm to help her with conecting tank and bcd
👍🤿I am sorry to hear about your father I lost mine over a year ago. He would be with me now but that is what cigarettes do! But on to your subject yes I strongly agree with blue water accent. Take the time to with your father every last moment counts!
New diver here (40 dives). I don't view this as a separate skill tbh. It's part of buoyancy control, being able to go up and down. Now whether that is with a visual reference such as a line, a buddy, tiles in a swimming pool to practice, or whether my computer is that reference doesn't really matter, does it? My ears would be another type of reference but understanding depth without checking the computer I guess takes practice / experience. I recently had the first real blue water ascent and didn't find it challenging or different even. If you lack buoyancy control that's a different story of course. So yeah, why not include it in training but it comes down to focussing more on buoyancy in OWD training and that would definitely be a good idea (along with other basics such as finning technique).
Can I do it? Yes. Was I trained? No.
I have done several blue ascents and while not difficult it was something new to get used to, feeling out how responsive my digital depth gauge is to pressure change and watching the flow rate of my bubbles and the particles in the water.
Seems like a good idea to add blue water ascents to the curriculum of open water certification. Sorry to hear about your dad, hang in there 😔
How is this even a question? Of course a diver needs to be able to ascend without reference to a line. OW certification requires demonstration of "mastery" of bouyancy control. While we all know PADI and their like mostly pay lip service to this, all divers should still have sufficient control to make it unaided to the surface without injuring themselves.