There are so many things to play with with Speaker, Amp, I played around a lot and realized that changing the crossover capacitors, rewire the crossover, changing the interstage capacitors in the amp are money-saving games but bring greatest effect.
HiFi Collective sir my old school buddy that i bought some nice towers he totaly rebuilt,he mounted nice bookshelf KLH speakers plus he crossnetworked them into the towers,they sound nice with the klh speakers on top,hes a speaker genious..the towers are built tight from the inside,they are solid
Personally I like to test different changes in a crossover before commiting to a definitive plan. I run wires from the drivers through the port and place the crossover parts on the ground where I can listen to some music and test tones and making some modifications and be able to listen if the sound is better or worse. For example, if we put a new capacitor on the tweeter, the response may change slightly and we might need to put a new resistor with a higher value to balance it to the woofer response. The changes can be made on the fly and the configuration of the crossover could be redesigned to better results. Modifying the damping material inside of the speaker might be something to look at too. Good luck with your projects!
Yes I just figured that out I ran separate wires to each driver, & tested tested tested, huge difference ya can't just use math & fancy test equipment your better off investing in a handful of inductors and capacitors
Bookshelf boston Acoustics CS 2s ive owned for over 10 years could use an upgrade in certain areas .mainly the mid? the highs an the lows are fine for apt usage..id luv some simplesuggestions from trustworthy sources that know what there saying.. The last time I got inside of em I had removed the cotton Filling which improved the mids tremendously beyond that is there anything simple can be done to the voice coil or crossovers ?since there inexpensive bookshelf speakers it dosent really make sense to send em in to G.R. research or anything like that..Suggestions are appreciated,Thanks!
Hi David If you e-mail me directly at info@hificollective.co.uk with a picture / schematic of your actual crossover I can make some recommendations Regards, Nick
wow, very good video, thank you. If you would change coil (inductor) as well, how you would pick correct Henry value, please? Is it possible to measure, or calculate based on resistance and crossover frequency? thanks
I bought a multimeter for under 30 euro in Amazon and it can messure henry. And what he said in this video about not replace it, you should really repace it. It is very bad idea use iron core coil
I upgraded the caps in a set of Kef Cara's and im not sure there was much of a difference really, it definitely wasn't night and day, but seems maybe slightly more natural? could be different depending on quality of the caps in the crossover as the speakers I got were kind of the cheaper high end when they came out I think
Hi, to upgrade you need to keep to the same values and type when it comes to the capacitors. So if the original caps are bipolar then replace with the same bipolar type. For resistors the value and wattage are key but you can mix up types. E.G. replacing a ceramic with a Mills wirewound is fine
Sir I have pioneer private pro sx 730 a couple of speaker on high one tweeter is automatic turnoff for 10sec after 10sec it works again and often amplifer is trip so what should i do?
It’s difficult to diagnose the problem without seeing the circuitry. Depending on where you’re based we do have a list of recommended repairers on our site here www.hificollective.co.uk/repair-upgrade-engineers.html It would be worth looking inside for any dodgy soldering.
Hi Vic, unfortunately no sound demo. The difference was definitely noticeable, its important to play music through them for a few hours for the caps to burn in or "settle" as at first they were slightly muddy but now sound great. Lets put it this way, they weren't used from purchase up until the upgrade, and they now proudly sit in Elliots living room!
The difference between a stock grade pp cap in series with a tweeter, as compared to a Mundorf Supreme MKP Silver/Gold/oil capacitor. Is like the difference between listening to a radio vs seriously expensive high end speakers. For the DYI people out there: -When you make a bugdet for drivers and crossovers, please realize that a really expensive tweeter with a cheap cap, makes no sense. The cheap tweeter with the expensive cap sounds much better. Then again, the price for a pair of 6.8 uF Mundorf Supreme Silver/ Gold/Oil cost around 550$, and that's only 2 components of the crossover 😉 I use the Mundorfs as coupling caps in my tube amp, and Jantzen Alumen Z caps for tweeter section in the speaker cross-over.
Correct, it's odd that considering the difference in sound, and quality, and the fact that you're already in there doing the upgrade, that a person wouldn't use higher grade components. A Corvette deserves an L88, not a Vega engine. But hey, even if your speakers are only Malibu's, they're worth the extra money, considering the availability and relative affordability of better parts. Even if they're not top of the line, the available replacement parts are probably better than the original.
Hi M C, an upgrade like this int going to completely change the sound of speakers (the drivers & cabinet are just as important as the crossover!) but having had lots of music played through them now its safe to say there was a definite improvement - they've been paired with a cheap amp thats also had some simple upgrades and together the system never fails to turn heads, all in a budget price range!
I have an old set of B-I-C Venturi Formula 4 speakers I picked up for $40. The tweeters where blown which I have upgrades comming and also a new set of capacitors. However, mine are rated at 16uf 50v so do you think I can get away with 15uf 250v? 16uf 50v is nearly impossible to come by. I searched for 2 days straight until my nose was bleeding lol
Hi ! So I upgraded the capacitors in my 30 yo B&W DM640, w/Solen PP caps, and they became too bright! I really miss the smooth relaxed voice they had previously. What would you recommend?
@@wa2368 take a deep breath man. Why r u tagging me as a "purist" ... and that "LOL" ... so childish. Tone controls affect highs differently than tuning a set of speaker to sound more relaxed.
ESR “equivalent series resistance” which means all electrical components in a circuit regardless of function also add resistance in the circuit so if you are replacing an iron core inductor with an air core inductor for better sound you are also reducing the circuits resistance which means more than likely your speakers will play louder as a result. I upgraded my speakers crossovers and now I have about 5-10 % increase in volume !
You probably would’ve wanna replace that iron core inductor with an air core inductor of the same rating as least. The iron core inductor kind of smears the sound The only problem is a good heavy gauge wire air core conductor of the exact same rating in millihenries probably would not be able to fit through that small square hole. You would have to mount the crossover outside the cabinet unless you were willing to remove one of the front speakers for a bigger opening.
If ud used an electric drill they wdv complained about noise.. Plus u can control a manual better for ur on the fly work.. Well done.. I don't work for HFC
Can you Cut open the Mundorf Silver Gold Cap vs Solen Silver Cap to view the inside can ? Is it real Pure Silver Foil or basically just a Fake Foil ? Video have ! ( Surely u will have Billion of Billion of Viewer in your UA-cam)
HFC is now in possession of a cordless electric drill. It took a fair amount of persuasion, but with the help of the internet (and this video) Nick gave in!
could have wire the caps point to point as the traces on the pcb are as thin as piss what a waste of time upgrade your tools first then you carnt blame them have fun
Wow this was painful to watch, so many questions so little time. Why didn't he disconnect the entire board to perform this work? 🤔 If the components were bigger than the original ones why didn't he use perforated board to make it all fit nicely? 🤔 And I think there are enough comments about the egg beater style drill. But still is he Amish and that's why he's using that hand crank drill??🤔 LMAO!!! This video was pure comedy but good job though.
NOT REQUIRE UPGRADE SPEAKER CROSSOVER!!!!! ALL THE DRIVERS REQUIRE HIS OWN CROSSOVER NOT DRIVERS IS COMBATIMBLE ALL CROSSOVERS! SPEAKERS PIONEER ALL THE DRIVERS AND CROSSOVER IS PIONEER!
Thanks for the video, I'm a noob and I'd find it really useful if you briefly explained everything you brush over, if you put 'beginner' in the video title then assume we know nothing 🙏👍👍🤝! We can tell you have lots of experience and we just want to pick your brain a bit more.. 👌🥸
You should get one of them automatic drills, I hear good things.
I was wondering what you were on about 'till he pulled out my Polish Grandpa's hand drill..
😆i have many drills, but i want that one too!.... spess, ...spess ...specifically that one😊
@@macelius You should see how he starts his car!
There are so many things to play with with Speaker, Amp, I played around a lot and realized that changing the crossover capacitors, rewire the crossover, changing the interstage capacitors in the amp are money-saving games but bring greatest effect.
HiFi Collective sir my old school buddy that i bought some nice towers he totaly rebuilt,he mounted nice bookshelf KLH speakers plus he crossnetworked them into the towers,they sound nice with the klh speakers on top,hes a speaker genious..the towers are built tight from the inside,they are solid
Personally I like to test different changes in a crossover before commiting to a definitive plan. I run wires from the drivers through the port and place the crossover parts on the ground where I can listen to some music and test tones and making some modifications and be able to listen if the sound is better or worse. For example, if we put a new capacitor on the tweeter, the response may change slightly and we might need to put a new resistor with a higher value to balance it to the woofer response. The changes can be made on the fly and the configuration of the crossover could be redesigned to better results. Modifying the damping material inside of the speaker might be something to look at too. Good luck with your projects!
Yes I just figured that out I ran separate wires to each driver, & tested tested tested, huge difference ya can't just use math & fancy test equipment your better off investing in a handful of inductors and capacitors
Did he make that drill out of an eye beater ?
You should get some of those magic cables, and use cable lifters, too.
Bookshelf boston Acoustics CS 2s ive owned for over 10 years could use an upgrade in certain areas .mainly the mid? the highs an the lows are fine for apt usage..id luv some simplesuggestions from trustworthy sources that know what there saying.. The last time I got inside of em I had removed the cotton Filling which improved the mids tremendously beyond that is there anything simple can be done to the voice coil or crossovers ?since there inexpensive bookshelf speakers it dosent really make sense to send em in to G.R. research or anything like that..Suggestions are appreciated,Thanks!
Hi David
If you e-mail me directly at info@hificollective.co.uk with a picture / schematic of your actual crossover I can make some recommendations
Regards, Nick
wow, very good video, thank you. If you would change coil (inductor) as well, how you would pick correct Henry value, please? Is it possible to measure, or calculate based on resistance and crossover frequency? thanks
I bought a multimeter for under 30 euro in Amazon and it can messure henry. And what he said in this video about not replace it, you should really repace it. It is very bad idea use iron core coil
the 1 ohm resistor is such a low value i would have kept it in , did it sound any better with the caps
?
I upgraded the caps in a set of Kef Cara's and im not sure there was much of a difference really, it definitely wasn't night and day, but seems maybe slightly more natural? could be different depending on quality of the caps in the crossover as the speakers I got were kind of the cheaper high end when they came out I think
Appreciate this video , cheers 👍👍
Hello, I have Bonne Crossover speakers. Can I buy and add any type of Crossover to it? Thank you
Hi, to upgrade you need to keep to the same values and type when it comes to the capacitors. So if the original caps are bipolar then replace with the same bipolar type. For resistors the value and wattage are key but you can mix up types. E.G. replacing a ceramic with a Mills wirewound is fine
M audio was using the electrolytics in an old attempt to soften the higher frequencies, but it never really works.
need to up grade a DR 51 Elac do you have a video for that ?
No sorry, no video yet.
Could you hear a difference after doing this?
So you listened to the upgraded one and then to the original, and the video from that you posted where exactly? Pretty please.
Sir
I have pioneer private pro sx 730 a couple of speaker on high one tweeter is automatic turnoff for 10sec after 10sec it works again and often amplifer is trip so what should i do?
It’s difficult to diagnose the problem without seeing the circuitry.
Depending on where you’re based we do have a list of recommended repairers on our site here www.hificollective.co.uk/repair-upgrade-engineers.html
It would be worth looking inside for any dodgy soldering.
@@hificollective thanks man you helped me 😊♥️
Lost a bit of confidence in this guy when he pulled out my grandad's drill.
@Da Royal General 😂so did i
At this point it might've been your great-granpappys'.
That dril makes a big difference in the Electric Bill. But, I wonder if the new x over cost more than the Speakers
Absolutely not @@twochaudiomg2578
I lost confidence when he said he would show us the difference of the crossover upgrade and never made a follow up video.
Can you please help find the right aftermarket replacement crossover for DALI blue 6006 speakers?
Of course, we can help out. Please email us at info@hificollective.co.uk and if possible include a picture/diagram of the existing crossover.
How much difference of sound did you get with that modification? Any sound demo?
Hi Vic, unfortunately no sound demo. The difference was definitely noticeable, its important to play music through them for a few hours for the caps to burn in or "settle" as at first they were slightly muddy but now sound great. Lets put it this way, they weren't used from purchase up until the upgrade, and they now proudly sit in Elliots living room!
The difference between a stock grade pp cap in series with a tweeter, as compared to a Mundorf Supreme MKP Silver/Gold/oil capacitor.
Is like the difference between listening to a radio vs seriously expensive high end speakers.
For the DYI people out there:
-When you make a bugdet for drivers and crossovers, please realize that a really expensive tweeter with a cheap cap, makes no sense.
The cheap tweeter with the expensive cap sounds much better.
Then again, the price for a pair of 6.8 uF Mundorf Supreme Silver/ Gold/Oil cost around 550$, and that's only 2 components of the crossover 😉
I use the Mundorfs as coupling caps in my tube amp, and Jantzen Alumen Z caps for tweeter section in the speaker cross-over.
Correct, it's odd that considering the difference in sound, and quality, and the fact that you're already in there doing the upgrade, that a person wouldn't use higher grade components.
A Corvette deserves an L88, not a Vega engine.
But hey, even if your speakers are only Malibu's, they're worth the extra money, considering the availability and relative affordability of better parts.
Even if they're not top of the line, the available replacement parts are probably better than the original.
Hi thx for the video. How much difference of sound did you get with that modification?
Hi M C, an upgrade like this int going to completely change the sound of speakers (the drivers & cabinet are just as important as the crossover!) but having had lots of music played through them now its safe to say there was a definite improvement - they've been paired with a cheap amp thats also had some simple upgrades and together the system never fails to turn heads, all in a budget price range!
I have an old set of B-I-C Venturi Formula 4 speakers I picked up for $40. The tweeters where blown which I have upgrades comming and also a new set of capacitors. However, mine are rated at 16uf 50v so do you think I can get away with 15uf 250v?
16uf 50v is nearly impossible to come by. I searched for 2 days straight until my nose was bleeding lol
Hello ZE_GERMAN, there should be no problem with that solution, to make it as accurate to the original you could place a 1uf with the 15uf!
@@hificollective i will try that as well. Thank you
So what was the end result??
Ok you changed the parts. Did they make an improvement?
Hi ! So I upgraded the capacitors in my 30 yo B&W DM640, w/Solen PP caps, and they became too bright! I really miss the smooth relaxed voice they had previously. What would you recommend?
Lol, use the tone controls knob.
W A wow
@@sachavilleneuve6688 Wow, you're a 'purist' with no tone controls? Wow
@@wa2368 take a deep breath man. Why r u tagging me as a "purist" ... and that "LOL" ... so childish. Tone controls affect highs differently than tuning a set of speaker to sound more relaxed.
What was the original capacitor? Bipolar electrolytic or film?
Love that intro!
Please could you elaborate on that part about ESR
ESR “equivalent series resistance” which means all electrical components in a circuit regardless of function also add resistance in the circuit so if you are replacing an iron core inductor with an air core inductor for better sound you are also reducing the circuits resistance which means more than likely your speakers will play louder as a result. I upgraded my speakers crossovers and now I have about 5-10 % increase in volume !
Can you swap crossovers from one set of speakers to another ?
you can, but crossovers are designed with the drivers in mind so you may find the frequency response of the modded speakers unpleasant
I would
I have a antique drill like that. Collect those old tools.
I've never actually used mine aha
Yes good idea
Can you hear the result ?
Is there a demo
Hi Nick, exactly what soldering iron/station did you use for this upgrade?
It is a Weller WTCP51 eith a 3mm chisel tip
@hificollective I can't find a 100v 150 uf film capacitor only electrolytic? What should I do thanks
You probably would’ve wanna replace that iron core inductor with an air core inductor of the same rating as least.
The iron core inductor kind of smears the sound
The only problem is a good heavy gauge wire air core conductor of the exact same rating in millihenries probably would not be able to fit through that small square hole. You would have to mount the crossover outside the cabinet unless you were willing to remove one of the front speakers for a bigger opening.
If I I've got sony speakers with no capacitor on the low woofer 120watt woofer 6ohm anyone got idea?
? No need for them look up 1st order crossover networks 6ohm is the same as 8
If ud used an electric drill they wdv complained about noise.. Plus u can control a manual better for ur on the fly work.. Well done.. I don't work for HFC
I would have liked to see the traces or a quick diagram
Im thinking the tweeter used the 4uf and the sub used the rest with the mid not needing any filter? Just a guess. I'm still learning
Why not just ditch the boards and hardwire them?
Ya. Keep both in case you want to go back
Jeez Nick, time you got a battery drill/driver.
agreed!
@@hificollective or maybe a proper work station / your videos make your company look like a Mickey mouse outfit
Did he just pull out an ancient artifact drill?
Well I for one am intrigued by your Polish grandpa's drill..
Why not by-cap that monster?
I've never seen a more twisted performance. Capacitors are not fixed by anything, vibrations will kill this filter.
a shame
I remember the first time I worked on crossovers......
Ceramic resistors are used to help dissipate heat.
10 15 % close probably?
Hmmm
Hmmm you mean someone should do the maths on this one?
The drill WTF, are the speakers steam powered
could've saved time and money by putting those speakers in the skip
After a few weeks listening we can safely say that these ugly ducklings can sing oh so sweet, glad there weren't any skips around at the time!
He did imho
need guide for masters i think :)
i hope his hearing is better than his sight, he needs 2 glasses to see lol
He's upgraded to bifocals now - luckily no need for hearing aids just yet!
Specccsif.. speccc.. specific
The drill is epic but to long of a bit. It's bending from the wieght of the drill
Correct, I learned that from a drill sergeant.
The moral of the story , bi-amp if you're crossover trouble is big.
That’s a crossover? The parts I got to build one from parts express are way beefier. Weak
Cameraman needs to pick garbage for a couple weeks
He will ruin the sound by tinkering with the crossover
He doesn't know what he's doing
@Matthew Taylor had me wondering for a moment
But a tru RMS meter ..and without a frequentie you dont measure any thing.
Can you Cut open the Mundorf Silver Gold Cap vs Solen Silver Cap to view the inside can ? Is it real Pure Silver Foil or basically just a Fake Foil ? Video have ! ( Surely u will have Billion of Billion of Viewer in your UA-cam)
We'll look into doing this
next time an electric little drill.
HFC is now in possession of a cordless electric drill. It took a fair amount of persuasion, but with the help of the internet (and this video) Nick gave in!
Clumsy way to work, you are making it hard for yourself.
Ke ti ispadnat kondezatorite na pola pesna
The hell is all that creeking noise constantly
could have wire the caps point to point as the traces on the pcb are as thin as piss what a waste of time upgrade your tools first then you carnt blame them have fun
gareth knott LMFAO ! Thin as piss I’m gonna remember that one !
You don't know wher the M Audio manufactured ?
Well... You should read what hifi magazine bro...
They're cheap knock-offs, fear not we're fully aware of M-Audio!
WHAT KIND OF WRISTWATCH
The watch is a Victorinox, not too sure which model it is.
Wish these people would speak more clearly. Try using a Dremel. Guess England still in the dark ages.
dude get a battery drill . stop the struggle…
What the hell is that weird rattling noise in the background that's very annoying
His speakers
@@isiahbethel5956 oh ok.
These videos are filmed in the HFC warehouse!
@@hificollective ohh, ok.
AAF anoying as Funk
It was hard to follow speaking very softly
Wow this was painful to watch, so many questions so little time.
Why didn't he disconnect the entire board to perform this work? 🤔
If the components were bigger than the original ones why didn't he use perforated board to make it all fit nicely? 🤔
And I think there are enough comments about the egg beater style drill. But still is he Amish and that's why he's using that hand crank drill??🤔
LMAO!!! This video was pure comedy but good job though.
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Nailed it. 😂😂
Don't understand anything you said .
Buy Electric drill. Rhymes with electronics : )
Real men use manual
over kill
a herty gerty drill, my my.............
You lost me at the hand drill lol
Damn that is a cheap crossover
Specific😅😂
NOT REQUIRE UPGRADE SPEAKER CROSSOVER!!!!! ALL THE DRIVERS REQUIRE HIS OWN CROSSOVER NOT DRIVERS IS COMBATIMBLE ALL CROSSOVERS! SPEAKERS PIONEER ALL THE DRIVERS AND CROSSOVER IS PIONEER!
Sorry without a before and after demo this is useless.
Sloppy
how many dislike comments you going to make? broken record.
I appreciate this video
If that's the best u can do, I will not subscribe
Thanks for the video, I'm a noob and I'd find it really useful if you briefly explained everything you brush over, if you put 'beginner' in the video title then assume we know nothing 🙏👍👍🤝! We can tell you have lots of experience and we just want to pick your brain a bit more.. 👌🥸