Thanks David!!! Although I've figured out pricing for portrait type work, commercial work and licensing is a bit beyond me. If you do a new video on that I would appreciate it.
Great information Dave; thank you. I am just starting out, have a day job, shoot weekends, portraits, and have always shied away from charging for my work. You have inspired me to take that next step 👍👍👍👌
Categorize the work you do. Dont do ANY 'jobs' for free. Let me break that down. Essentially you should be getting back from any of the work that you do Have a category which we all usually have which is just for fun. Use it for practice learning and make sure at the end of the day you don't owe anybody anything or you're not signing up to do a task for anyone. It's you and maybe the model or whoever and you set expectations and just do that and done. You should know what you're actually getting out of it even if it's just having fun. For any kind of ask from you that's going to be used for someone to promote themselves or commercially for any kinds of business even if it's business cards, charge. You must charge something. No one will value your work if it's cheap or you don't charge them. In the real world we treat trash like it's trash it has no value. The labor and the skill that you are offering has a value so you must charge for it. Even if you don't plan on having a photography business, as this video is discussing it doesn't actually make sense for you to do free labor and hand it to someone. Even a friend of yours should be sensible enough to be like hey this is work you're doing for me you have to get something out of this. There may be a couple of other categories of shoots that you do and it may not even be people -maybe you should insects lifestyle or cityscapes. It doesn't really matter. What does matter is what is the ask. If people are requesting a service from you they must pay. Money is the main currency but if you do a shoot for $100 worth of dinner at that person's restaurant that's a form of payment. Just think about that concept for a little while it's very foundational but it applies to everything. Then you can set yourself up better because if you have a service that people want from you then they should be willing to pay you for it. If you manage to tell someone hey I'm going to need money to do what you're asking me for and they balk, then that's a good thing. That's telling you that they don't care about compensating you for anything they just want to use you for what you can give them. You don't need those people around you and you should not feel bad about it. Those are people that don't respect your time your feelings or your craft. Let them go. As a quick background I am a 20-year art director on the design side. So I had to learn dealing with clients and certain rates on that side of the game. Once I got to photography I mean the numbers are so low it is absolutely obscene. To be honest photography is a terrible market unless you have a certain amount of skill or you have a certain acumen pulling down potential clients. Otherwise it's one of the shittiest industries out there. So set yourself up to just benefit from any of the stuff that you're doing. Every shoot or project that you do be more clear or just be clear with who you're doing the stuff with about what they are getting from you and what you need from them. Don't get taken advantage of. Anyway put in the work like this guy mentioned in the video and enjoy your shoots and make your money. Cheers and happy shooting.
Joe McNally told me to try this: think of a number in your head, multiple by 4 and you will find the client won’t freak out. You may not get that job but it builds confidence
I have been shooting paid HS Sports and Events for over 15 years and would like to start getting into summer weddings when the schools are closed. I have no idea what to charge so I decided to take a look on some wedding web sites, I saw price ranges from 500 to 6500, that's quite a gap. So I guess there is no solid answer to what weddings should be priced at.
Why wouldn't you shoot senior portraits? It's a lot easier than shooting a wedding and seems like it would be easy for you to start shooting because of your connections you already have with high school sports. I've made 850 on high school senior portraits, my average is 400. So much easier than a wedding, less stress, less work, less chance for law suits and who wants to deal with Bridezillas?
Each photographer has a different CODB. Add that in to the profit they want / need to make - plus their level of experience and worth - and you'll get a wide variety of prices.
I used to charge $500 a day per job. shooting fashion back in 1980. Film days. Plus whatever I charged for prints, a must for a newspaper ad if they wanted to advertise in local papers. I did do a few shoots for my local chamber of conference when I lived in Jax, Fl. Only paid $250 but word of mouth was good promotion. Since the iPhone it has killed Professional Photographers business, especially weddings ( I do not shoot those) I took a long hiatus from my concert shooting days and I find it hard to get in touch with promoters to see if they need a photographer to shoot a show. Any time for that one?
Ya right, people are so cheap they just hire for cheap or even exploit for free a family member with a entry level DSLR or some crappy cellphone to take pictures... They don't wany to pay even just 300$ for a shoot -_- Then you have all these desesperated guys offering shooting for free to girls who then start thinking they don't have to pay just because they are "cute" like wtf?! If photographer would have a pair of balls and think with their head instead, it could still be profitable.
Remember - some clients just can't afford you. Generally, the more "fun" something is to shoot - along with the lower entry barrier - the less that industry will pay. Find the good clients and industries that will allow you to charge the rates you want / need.
Hi David great video useful model for any business. The challenges I see are that photography is often a luxury market, for example business who want to sell their products on line will take images using their phones, guests and friends take photos at weddings. You only have to look at what potential customers post and like on social media to see that they are interested in the moment, the dog looking cute despite an image being badly exposed and out of focus. If only Apple had an app to sort your plumbing and dentistry those trades might then not charge the earth! But who needs an emergency photographer . Then there is the kit and skill level of would be pros. An experienced photographer could shoot a wedding on a 10 year old DSLR with a kit lens, but how many folk to I see who think they can spend 200dollers, euros and offer the same service as some one with years of experience and high mirrorless to shoot silently and get good results in low light with fast glass. These folk can devalue the market for others. The other matter to add to your pricing is your processing time. If your shoot an event you likely have to do some burst shots. Have a group of 6 wedding guests take at least 10 pictures to ensure you get one with everyone smiling and no eyes closed. I can spend 1-4 hours post shoot for every 1 at an event and the customer does not see that and can’t under stand why they don’t have their images the next day 😀
I am a real estate photographer. But there is something wrong with the video. One cannot plan how many photo shoots there will be. Yes, I know how much my equipment costs and how much expenses I have per month, but I have no idea if I will have1, 5 or 0 photo shoots per week. So - how can I set my prices?
Many individuals are starting online business where they create constant stream of content to promote products or themselves as a brand often focused on style and personality more than anything else. (The business structure is often non-formal and non-traditional in the age of social media). So this is often without any level of business education and or consideration for IP licenses. How do you reccommend broaching the subject of licenses and rights without turning the client off even though they generally want to pay a reasonable price but expect all assets should belong to them (triggering a full buyout multiplier of say x4+)? Also, for every one photographer who want to conscienciously sell license to the work they create, there are twenty who won't fuss about it. Please consider addressing the complex issue of having that conversation and or navigating it expertly.
Not every client cares about IP. Find the ones who do and understand the importance of it. For example a magazine will absolutely care, they don't want their centerfold ad being used online by some other company right before their ad campaign drops. It is complex but you are never competing against other photographers if they are selling to people in no need of IP control
Bottom line is that you can decide who you want to work with. If you want to use a licensing model, then you need to find the best clients for your business.
eggcellent video, please do an updated one on licensing please
Thanks David!!! Although I've figured out pricing for portrait type work, commercial work and licensing is a bit beyond me. If you do a new video on that I would appreciate it.
Thanks for this! It’s a nice help. I’m going to look for your old video on licensing, but would LOVE to see a new one.
Very smart lesson...and should help all who watch. Thanks for making this happen.
Great information Dave; thank you. I am just starting out, have a day job, shoot weekends, portraits, and have always shied away from charging for my work. You have inspired me to take that next step 👍👍👍👌
Categorize the work you do. Dont do ANY 'jobs' for free. Let me break that down.
Essentially you should be getting back from any of the work that you do
Have a category which we all usually have which is just for fun. Use it for practice learning and make sure at the end of the day you don't owe anybody anything or you're not signing up to do a task for anyone. It's you and maybe the model or whoever and you set expectations and just do that and done. You should know what you're actually getting out of it even if it's just having fun.
For any kind of ask from you that's going to be used for someone to promote themselves or commercially for any kinds of business even if it's business cards, charge. You must charge something. No one will value your work if it's cheap or you don't charge them. In the real world we treat trash like it's trash it has no value. The labor and the skill that you are offering has a value so you must charge for it. Even if you don't plan on having a photography business, as this video is discussing it doesn't actually make sense for you to do free labor and hand it to someone. Even a friend of yours should be sensible enough to be like hey this is work you're doing for me you have to get something out of this.
There may be a couple of other categories of shoots that you do and it may not even be people -maybe you should insects lifestyle or cityscapes. It doesn't really matter. What does matter is what is the ask. If people are requesting a service from you they must pay. Money is the main currency but if you do a shoot for $100 worth of dinner at that person's restaurant that's a form of payment.
Just think about that concept for a little while it's very foundational but it applies to everything. Then you can set yourself up better because if you have a service that people want from you then they should be willing to pay you for it. If you manage to tell someone hey I'm going to need money to do what you're asking me for and they balk, then that's a good thing. That's telling you that they don't care about compensating you for anything they just want to use you for what you can give them. You don't need those people around you and you should not feel bad about it. Those are people that don't respect your time your feelings or your craft. Let them go.
As a quick background I am a 20-year art director on the design side. So I had to learn dealing with clients and certain rates on that side of the game. Once I got to photography I mean the numbers are so low it is absolutely obscene. To be honest photography is a terrible market unless you have a certain amount of skill or you have a certain acumen pulling down potential clients. Otherwise it's one of the shittiest industries out there. So set yourself up to just benefit from any of the stuff that you're doing. Every shoot or project that you do be more clear or just be clear with who you're doing the stuff with about what they are getting from you and what you need from them. Don't get taken advantage of.
Anyway put in the work like this guy mentioned in the video and enjoy your shoots and make your money. Cheers and happy shooting.
Good info. Please make another video of how to license your work. Thanks!
Always like listen to David. Down to the point, no BS, and in clear language. PS: Dig that wig
useful on the pricing side of things.
Joe McNally told me to try this: think of a number in your head, multiple by 4 and you will find the client won’t freak out. You may not get that job but it builds confidence
What's the point confidence without money?
Great info, as always!
A very well thought out response to what was a too simple question. Well done as always.
Thanks!
I have been shooting paid HS Sports and Events for over 15 years and would like to start getting into summer weddings when the schools are closed. I have no idea what to charge so I decided to take a look on some wedding web sites, I saw price ranges from 500 to 6500, that's quite a gap. So I guess there is no solid answer to what weddings should be priced at.
Why wouldn't you shoot senior portraits? It's a lot easier than shooting a wedding and seems like it would be easy for you to start shooting because of your connections you already have with high school sports. I've made 850 on high school senior portraits, my average is 400. So much easier than a wedding, less stress, less work, less chance for law suits and who wants to deal with Bridezillas?
Each photographer has a different CODB. Add that in to the profit they want / need to make - plus their level of experience and worth - and you'll get a wide variety of prices.
I used to charge $500 a day per job. shooting fashion back in 1980. Film days. Plus whatever I charged for prints, a must for a newspaper ad if they wanted to advertise in local papers. I did do a few shoots for my local chamber of conference when I lived in Jax, Fl. Only paid $250 but word of mouth was good promotion. Since the iPhone it has killed Professional Photographers business, especially weddings ( I do not shoot those) I took a long hiatus from my concert shooting days and I find it hard to get in touch with promoters to see if they need a photographer to shoot a show. Any time for that one?
Ya right, people are so cheap they just hire for cheap or even exploit for free a family member with a entry level DSLR or some crappy cellphone to take pictures... They don't wany to pay even just 300$ for a shoot -_-
Then you have all these desesperated guys offering shooting for free to girls who then start thinking they don't have to pay just because they are "cute" like wtf?! If photographer would have a pair of balls and think with their head instead, it could still be profitable.
What about using social media to connect with them?
Remember - some clients just can't afford you. Generally, the more "fun" something is to shoot - along with the lower entry barrier - the less that industry will pay. Find the good clients and industries that will allow you to charge the rates you want / need.
@@DavidBergmanPhoto Thank's David
Did I miss the link for the CODB calculator?
It's in there now. :)
Hi David great video useful model for any business. The challenges I see are that photography is often a luxury market, for
example business who want to sell their products on line will take images using their phones, guests and friends take photos at weddings. You only have to look at what potential customers post and like on social media to see that they are interested in the moment, the dog looking cute despite an image being badly exposed and out of focus. If only Apple had an app to sort your plumbing and dentistry those trades might then not charge the earth! But who needs an emergency photographer . Then there is the kit and skill level of would be pros. An experienced photographer could shoot a wedding on a 10 year old DSLR with a kit lens, but how many folk to I see who think they can spend 200dollers, euros and offer the same service as some one with years of experience and high mirrorless to shoot silently and get good results in low light with fast glass. These folk can devalue the market for others. The other matter to add to your pricing is your processing time. If your shoot an event you likely have to do some burst shots. Have a group of 6 wedding guests take at least 10 pictures to ensure you get one with everyone smiling and no eyes closed. I can spend 1-4 hours post shoot for every 1 at an event and the customer does not see that and can’t under stand why they don’t have their images the next day 😀
Great, will share ;)
I am a real estate photographer. But there is something wrong with the video. One cannot plan how many photo shoots there will be. Yes, I know how much my equipment costs and how much expenses I have per month, but I have no idea if I will have1, 5 or 0 photo shoots per week. So - how can I set my prices?
Many individuals are starting online business where they create constant stream of content to promote products or themselves as a brand often focused on style and personality more than anything else. (The business structure is often non-formal and non-traditional in the age of social media). So this is often without any level of business education and or consideration for IP licenses. How do you reccommend broaching the subject of licenses and rights without turning the client off even though they generally want to pay a reasonable price but expect all assets should belong to them (triggering a full buyout multiplier of say x4+)? Also, for every one photographer who want to conscienciously sell license to the work they create, there are twenty who won't fuss about it. Please consider addressing the complex issue of having that conversation and or navigating it expertly.
Not every client cares about IP. Find the ones who do and understand the importance of it. For example a magazine will absolutely care, they don't want their centerfold ad being used online by some other company right before their ad campaign drops. It is complex but you are never competing against other photographers if they are selling to people in no need of IP control
Bottom line is that you can decide who you want to work with. If you want to use a licensing model, then you need to find the best clients for your business.
👍🏻
Would be even better if you can add graphics so i can visualise eaiser
CAN I GRO AS A MOBILE PHOTOGRAPHER ORE DO I NEED A REAL CAMERA 🇵🇭
If your work is good people don't care what gear you use